date:20160213

>Qualcuno conosce soluzioni alternative?
C'è anche OsmAnd che renderizza le piste da sci. 

Comunque bravo! Ho cercato invano di convincere degli amici che fanno da anni 
sci alpinismo a prendere almeno delle tracce GPS, ma purtroppo per diversi 
motivi non l'hanno fatto.

>cioè ci sarebbe piste:difficulty ma accorpa sci da discesa, fondo e 
>scialpinismo).

Tieni conto che quello che differenzia è piste:type. 

Comunque, la difficoltà è codificata in maniera molto differente per lo 
scialpinismo rispetto a quello presente sul wiki?


Andrea Lattmann

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[Talk-it] Che succede con i dati di un contributore defunto

2016-02-13 Per discussione Volker Schmidt

Un mio amico morto ormai da due anni esiste ancora come contributore OSM.
Quale è la procedura?

Volker
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Re: [Talk-it] Che succede con i dati di un contributore defunto

2016-02-13 Per discussione Leonardo Frassetto

Io scriverei una mail al data working group spiegando loro la situazione.
Volevi far chiudere il suo account?
Il 13/feb/2016 15:27, "Volker Schmidt"  ha scritto:

> Un mio amico morto ormai da due anni esiste ancora come contributore OSM.
> Quale è la procedura?
>
> Volker
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

>Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
>alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo. 

...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle... 

Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno clienti, ma 
se uno non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi a loro sempre e 
comunque. Solo che tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per la pericolosità, non 
dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi traccia sentieri con l'obbligo dell'  
attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più fare? 
Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere qualcuno che 
va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.


Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Dario Zontini

Scegliere quale sia un percorso da mappare di scialpinismo è molto
soggettivo, ma sarei dell'idea che i percorsi "tradizionali" e più
conoscuti si potrebbero anche mappare. Una persona che sceglie di farlo
naturalmente deve valutare le codizioni della neve e non prendere il
percorso alla lettera, ma considerarlo un percorso suggerito. In alcune
cartine escursionistiche in vendita in libreria in passato si trovavano gli
itinerari di scialpinismo, non so se vengono riportati anche sulle cartine
recenti.

Il giorno 13 febbraio 2016 16:39, Michele Malfatti <
michele.malfa...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
> alpine e istruttori che mi hanno sconsigliato di farlo.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 13/feb/2016, at 10:13, Antonio Iacchetti  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Buongiorno a tutti,
> >
> > mi sono iscritto quest'anno ad un corso di scialpinismo e vorrei
> approfittarne innanzitutto per mappare i percorsi che farò ma anche per
> provare a sensibilizzare compagni e istruttori sulle potenzialità di OSM.
> >
> > Innanzitutto sarebbe utile avere una mappa scaricabile su cellulare
> specifica per la montagna invernale. Sarebbe un ottimo modo per avvicinare
> persone a OSM invogliandole poi a contribuire in prima persona (io uso
> Oruxmap e ho visto che è uno strumento già diffuso). Ad esempio una volta
> c'era openpistemap ma il progetto è chiuso. Opensnowmap mi sembra
> interessante ma io non riesco a scaricarla in Oruxmap (sicuramente a causa
> della mia ignoranza informatica:) ). Qualcuno conosce soluzioni alternative?
> >
> > La seconda domanda è se esiste una comunità o un gruppo di discussione
> OSM dedicato allo scialpinismo o anche in generale all'alpinismo. Questo
> per sapere a chi chiedere consigli ma in prospettiva, se riuscissi ad
> appassionare istruttori e gente esperta, sarebbe bello incentivarli anche a
> contribuire nella definizione dei tag specifici (ad esempio non trovo un
> tag specifico per le difficoltà di un percorso scialpinistico.. cioè ci
> sarebbe piste:difficulty ma accorpa sci da discesa, fondo e scialpinismo).
> >
> > Grazie mille,
> > Antonio
> >
> >
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

Condivido al 100%.
>ma sarei dell'idea che i percorsi >"tradizionali" e più conoscuti si 
>>potrebbero anche mappare.
Infatti, ci sono dei tracciati che vengono usati abitualmente se non sempre, 
sia perché offrono maggiore sicurezza sia per la bellezza del tracciato: sono 
quelli che andrebbero mappati, almeno per avere un indicazione del percorso, se 
nò avviene che qualcuno decide di crearsi un suo percorso (senza guide) e i 
risultati si vedono...

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Michele Malfatti

Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve scegli da dove 
salire! 

Sent from my iPhone

On 13/feb/2016, at 18:08, Andrea Lattmann  wrote:

>> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
>> alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo.
> 
> ...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle... 
> 
> Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno clienti, 
> ma se uno non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi a loro sempre e 
> comunque. Solo che tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per la pericolosità, non 
> dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi traccia sentieri con l'obbligo dell'  
> attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più fare? 
> Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere qualcuno 
> che va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.
> 
> 
> Andrea Lattmann
> 
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Maurizio Napolitano

> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
alpine e istruttori che mi hanno sconsigliato di farlo.

il classico "security by obscurity"

IMHO: come già detto nel thread meglio mostrare quelle più "tradizionali"
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

>Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve scegli
>da dove salire! 

Certo! però purtroppo non tutti lo sanno! Non credo che tu ti sia improvvisato 
in questo sport, be ti comunico che c'è ancora tanta gente che va senza nessuna 
nozione! Se ci fossero più tracciati su OSM forse è sottolineo forse, si 
eviterebbe che ci sia gente che mi va su un versante Sud esposto al sole con 
una neve in cui ci si può fare scinautico! :-D 
Mi è appena arrivata la notizia che un mio conoscente di 34 anni è morto oggi 
perché stava facendo un fuoripista (in condizioni climatiche pessime aggiungo 
io) ed è rimasto sotto una valanga... 
Quando si fa una discussione ed io mi esprimo dicendo che prima di tutto in 
montagna bisogna vedere le condizioni climatiche e lo stato della neve ecc Ecc. 
vengo spesse volte preso per matto... 
Quindi le mappiamo o no? :-)

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

Il 13 febbraio 2016 18:49:57 CET, Maurizio Napolitano  ha 
scritto:
>> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
>alpine e istruttori che mi hanno sconsigliato di farlo.
>
>il classico "security by obscurity"
>
>IMHO: come già detto nel thread meglio mostrare quelle più
>"tradizionali"
>
>
>
>
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>il classico "security by obscurity"

Infatti! :-)



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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Dario Zontini Gmail

si, conosco lo scialpinismo, anche se ultimanente gli sci sono appesi al
chiodo :-) e concordo con te che l'itinerario è molto variabile e non è
neanche facile riportarlo in una traccia su OSM. Ma come dicevo io lo
considero come percorso suggerito. Poi è la persona che deve usare la
testa e non solo il gps.

Io mi riferisco a percorsi classici come S. Barbara - monte Stivo (che
molti trentini consocono), un tracciato così io mi sento di mapparlo
tranquillamente, per dare un'idea da che parte si sale e scende.
Percorsi poco frequentati e magari fatti solo dal mio gruppo di amici
una volta, sarei dell'idea di non mapparli.

In Austria ci sono parecchi itinerari, manon so dire a che tipologie si
riferiscono

Il 13/02/2016 18:48, Michele Malfatti ha scritto:

Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve scegli da dove
salire!

Sent from my iPhone

On 13/feb/2016, at 18:08, Andrea Lattmann wrote:

Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo.

...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle...

Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno clienti, ma se uno
non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi a loro sempre e comunque. Solo che
tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per la pericolosità, non dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi
traccia sentieri con l'obbligo dell' attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più fare?

Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere qualcuno che
va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Michele Malfatti

Abito ai piedi dello Stivo e in base alle condizioni ci sono due vie di salita 
in base al meteo, piuttosto metterei le classiche salite zona Madonna di 
campiglio che sono segnate con paletti e nastri e tracciati da guide alpine. 
Io resto del fatto di non inserire i percorsi e non se seguirò mai nessuno 
tracciato su di una mappa!! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13/feb/2016, at 19:27, Dario Zontini Gmail  wrote:
> 
> si, conosco lo scialpinismo, anche se ultimanente gli sci sono appesi al 
> chiodo :-) e concordo con te che l'itinerario è molto variabile e non è 
> neanche facile riportarlo in una traccia su OSM. Ma come dicevo io lo 
> considero come percorso suggerito. Poi è la persona che deve usare la testa e 
> non solo il gps.
> 
> Io mi riferisco a percorsi classici come S. Barbara - monte Stivo (che molti 
> trentini consocono), un tracciato così io mi sento di mapparlo 
> tranquillamente, per dare un'idea da che parte si sale e scende. Percorsi 
> poco frequentati e magari fatti solo dal mio gruppo di amici una volta, sarei 
> dell'idea di non mapparli.
> 
> In Austria ci sono parecchi itinerari, manon so dire a che tipologie si 
> riferiscono
> 
> Il 13/02/2016 18:48, Michele Malfatti ha scritto:
>> Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve scegli da 
>> dove salire!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 13/feb/2016, at 18:08, Andrea Lattmann  wrote:
>> 
 Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
 alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo.
>>> ...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle...
>>> 
>>> Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno clienti, 
>>> ma se uno non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi a loro sempre 
>>> e comunque. Solo che tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per la pericolosità, 
>>> non dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi traccia sentieri con l'obbligo 
>>> dell'  attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più fare? 
>>> Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere qualcuno 
>>> che va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Andrea Lattmann
>>> 
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> -- 
> 
> 
> Dario Zontini
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-it] gradinata (scalinata ampia)

2016-02-13 Per discussione Aury88

dieterdreist wrote
> si, se hai una scalinata larga 200 metri, dove metti il way highway=steps
> , al centro? Ad ogni angolo? Ogni 30 metri? 
> Sarà renderizzato come un percorso largo circa 5-10 metri, gli altri 190
> metri li lasciamo bianchi? Vorrei una mappatura che rende possibile di
> creare dei render che fanno capire di cosa si tratta, una scalinata è ben
> diversa da delle semplici scale.

fammi capire bene quale è il problema martintu le piazze pedonali come
le mappi? metti una pedestrian ogni 30 metri? i ponti o le autostrade, che
sono più larghe di una normale scalinata o di una strada, sopratutto vicino
ai caselli, come la mappi? come una way esattamente come una qualsiasi altra
strada, giusto?
non mi sembra di aver suggerito bestialità...è la normale mappatura...mappi
la way e poi mappi l'area se vuoi...ho sbagliato fino ad ora?
il mio suggerimento non ti impedisce di mappare l'area, ti permette
semplicemente di non impedire il routing a me che della larghezza degli
scalini frega nulla ma interessa semplicemente sapere se posso percorrere un
tratto in sedia a rotelle o meno e che tratti devo precorrere per andare dal
punto A al punto B. la way quindi la metti dove è più conveniente farla per
il routing e di solito è il centro, ma puoi metterne anche di più se è
necessario, poi l'area te la mappi se e come vuoi.
il come viene renderizzato non dovrebbe fregarcene...o è cambiata anche
questa regola per le scalinate?
se il render ti renderizza solo 5-10 m dei 190 messi nel width non è un
problema del tag width o della mappa, è un problema del tuo render che non
gestisce un tag ampiamente documentato ed usato.  
una scalinata è una scala, con dimensioni particolari...per i problemi
geometrici ci sono appositi tag e la mappatura ad area...e siccome il
routing non funziona bene sulle aree, generalmente si mappano questi
elementi con entrambi gli stili di mappatura.




-
Ciao,
Aury
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

Il 13 febbraio 2016 19:44:06 CET, Michele Malfatti  
ha scritto:
>Abito ai piedi dello Stivo e in base alle condizioni ci sono due vie di
>salita in base al meteo, piuttosto metterei le classiche salite zona
>Madonna di campiglio che sono segnate con paletti e nastri e tracciati
>da guide alpine. 
>Io resto del fatto di non inserire i percorsi e non se seguirò mai
>nessuno tracciato su di una mappa!! 
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 13/feb/2016, at 19:27, Dario Zontini Gmail
> wrote:
>> 
>> si, conosco lo scialpinismo, anche se ultimanente gli sci sono appesi
>al chiodo :-) e concordo con te che l'itinerario è molto variabile e
>non è neanche facile riportarlo in una traccia su OSM. Ma come dicevo
>io lo considero come percorso suggerito. Poi è la persona che deve
>usare la testa e non solo il gps.
>> 
>> Io mi riferisco a percorsi classici come S. Barbara - monte Stivo
>(che molti trentini consocono), un tracciato così io mi sento di
>mapparlo tranquillamente, per dare un'idea da che parte si sale e
>scende. Percorsi poco frequentati e magari fatti solo dal mio gruppo di
>amici una volta, sarei dell'idea di non mapparli.
>> 
>> In Austria ci sono parecchi itinerari, manon so dire a che tipologie
>si riferiscono
>> 
>> Il 13/02/2016 18:48, Michele Malfatti ha scritto:
>>> Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve
>scegli da dove salire!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 13/feb/2016, at 18:08, Andrea Lattmann 
>wrote:
>>> 
> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici
>guide
> alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo.
 ...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle...
 
 Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno
>clienti, ma se uno non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi
>a loro sempre e comunque. Solo che tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per
>la pericolosità, non dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi traccia
>sentieri con l'obbligo dell'  attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più
>fare? 
 Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere
>qualcuno che va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.
 
 
 Andrea Lattmann
 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> Dario Zontini
>> 
>> 
>> ---
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>antivirus.
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>> 
>> 
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>Io resto del fatto di non inserire i >percorsi e non se seguirò mai nessuno 
>>tracciato su di una mappa!! 

Nessuno ti obbliga. :-) 

Qual'è il problema nell'inserirli?
Pensi che sia da deterrente per chi li affronta con leggerezza?
Tanto ci sono e ci saranno i "furbi", che sia mappato o no.
Può essere utile la mappature per chi con testa vuole vedere il tracciato che 
farà. Naturalmente come ogni strumento va utilizzato con testa! Basta leggere 
qualsiasi notizia sui giornali che parla di macchine su piste ciclabili o giù 
per le scale grazie al navigatore... oltre ad aspettare che il navigatore 
agganci i satelliti dovrebbero aspettare che il loro cervello si agganci al 
resto del corpo! :-D

Andrea Lattmann

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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

Mi sono dimenticato di premettere una cosa: Non voglio obbligare nessuno a 
mappare ciò che non vuole, voglio solo capire il perché non devono essere 
mappate. Se è per il pericolo, se perché vie non ufficiali o quant'altro. Se èp 
per il pericolo a questo punto non andrebbero mappati neanche i sentieri. 
Scusate, non voglio rompere le scatole, vorrei una risposta, anche brutale. :-) 
pura curiosità... 


Andrea Lattmann

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[Talk-us] International Women's Day Mapathon in Bellingham WA

2016-02-13 Per discussione Clifford Snow

I excited to announce a International Women's Day Mapathon event on March
8th, in Bellingham WA. The meeting will be lead by Kate von Krusenstiern,
Western Washington University graduate in Physical Geography, Geology, and
GIS. You can learn more at the meetup page [1]. This is also our inaugural
event for the new OpenStreetMap North Puget Sound Meetup Group.

[1] http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-North-Puget-Sound/events/228795693/

Clifford

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[Talk-cz] příbuzná setkání - Brno - únor

2016-02-13 Per discussione Ladislav Nesnera

Na lednové brněnské hospodě konané v únoru jsem opět navrhoval expedici
na wikipedistický sraz

17.2. od 18:00 (pro inspiraci a hledání průniků). Nezůstalo to bez
odezvy, ale prý že avizovat dlouho dopředu a pak před akcí. To první
nešlo, neb Blahma dotáhl popis až včera. Ale možná jsem vymyslel fintu,
jak nespamovat víc než jednou :-D

A kdyby někdo neměl sociálna dost, přihřeju si openalťáckou polívčičku -
19. 2. od 18:00 máme 125. sraz
 a napotřetí se nám povedlo
dostat do Stavby , tak snad jejich
pověst nelže.

Wikipedie


OpenAlt

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LOCATION:restaurace Stavba\, Grohova 101/2\, N 49Â°12'04.8" E 016Â°35'56.7
 "
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SUMMARY:Pod reÃ¡lnou lÃpou/Brno
STATUS:CONFIRMED
DTSTART;TZID=Europe/Prague:20160217T18
DTEND;TZID=Europe/Prague:20160217T23
DESCRIPTION:https://cs.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedie:Pod_re%C3
 %A1lnou_l%C3%ADpou/Brno\,_17._%C3%BAnora_2016=edit=1
LOCATION:restaurace Baroko\, OrlÃ 469/17\, N 49Â°11.638' E 016Â°36.721'
SEQUENCE:2
TRANSP:OPAQUE
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Re: [Talk-cz] wikipedia:cs=* -> wikipedia=cs:*

2016-02-13 Per discussione Ladislav Nesnera

Poslal jsem vlákno wiki-profíkovi, určitě zajímavý podnět. A dle mého i
další důvod zavítat na jejich sraz (Pozvánku jsem poslal, ale neb má
přílohy, tak to asi musí moderátor nejprve povolit). Na jednom ze srazů
byla zmíněna překvapivá kvalita německých místopisných hesel v ČR,
mnohdy převyšující ty naše.


On 12/02/16 12:15, Marián Kyral wrote:
> Že bychom udělali seznam a ten poslali do konference wikipedistům?
> Asi nějakou mají ne?
>
> Marián
>
> -- Původní zpráva --
> Od: Dalibor Jelínek 
> Komu: 'OpenStreetMap Czech Republic' 
> Datum: 12. 2. 2016 12:11:41
> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] wikipedia:cs=* -> wikipedia=cs:*
>
>
> Cau,
>
> neco jsem upravil, ale je zajimave, ze je celkem dost
>
> mist, ktere maji Wiki stranku jen v nemcine a ne v cestine.
>
>  
>
> Dalibor
>
>  
>
> *From:*Marián Kyral [mailto:mky...@email.cz]
> *Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2016 10:24 AM
> *To:* OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-cz] wikipedia:cs=* -> wikipedia=cs:*
>
>  
>
>  
>
> -- Původní zpráva --
> Od: Pavel Machek >
> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic  >
> Datum: 11. 2. 2016 14:24:24
> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] wikipedia:cs=* -> wikipedia=cs:*
>
>  
>
> Ahoj!
> > Ahoj,
> > narazil jsem na tag wikipedia:cs=*, který mi na
> openstreetmap.cz tak nějak
> > nefunguje.
> >
> > Jedna věc je, že to opravím, ale stejně, dle wiki
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.
> > org/wiki/Cs:Key:wikipedia
> > by se měl odkaz wikipedia: použít pouze v případě,
> že chceme přidat
> > další jazyk (třeba proto, že tam více informací/obrázků).
> >
> > Z toho mi vyplývá, že pokud je u daného osm objektu pouze
> tag wikipedia:cs,
> > měl by se převést na wikipedia=cs:
> >
> > Jen tak jemně jsem si zadal dotaz na overpass-turbo -
> vypadlo mi cca 1000
> > použití wikipedia:cs v bboxu kolem ČR. Něco je legitimní
> využití, je tam
> > hodně duplicit, takže v reálu to bude méně - až bude čas,
> tak to zkusím
> > trochu pročistit.
> >
> > Ale třeba u Lokte mne překvapilo, že hlavní jazyk je ruština :-O
> >
> > "wikipedia": "ru:Локет (замок)",
> > "wikipedia:cs": "Loket (hrad)"
>
> Jo, to by asi chtelo opravit.
>
>  
>
> Overpass turbo query zobrazující body s tagem wikipedia v Česku
> který nezačíná znaky "cs:"
>
>  
>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/en8
>
>  
>
> /*
> This has been generated by the overpass-turbo wizard.
> The original search was:
> “wikipedia:cs=* and wikipedia is null”
> */
>
> [out:json][timeout:90];
> // gather results
> area[name="Česko"];
> (
>   // query part for: “"wikipedia:cs"=* and wikipedia!=*”
>   node["wikipedia"]["wikipedia"!~"cs:.*"](area);
>   way["wikipedia"]["wikipedia"!~"cs:.*"](area);
> );
> // print results
> out body;
> >;
> out skel qt;
>
>  
>
> Jsou tam věci jako celá url, názvy začínající na "cz:" (tohle
> kupodivu funguje), narazil jsem i na neexistující stránku. Spousta
> věcí je v pohraničí, případně přímo na hranici - tam asi záleží,
> kdo přijde dřív. V některých případech česká stránky úplně chybí.
>
>  
>
> "wikipedia": "cz:Pražského povstání (stanice metra)"
> "wikipedia": "en:Králický Sněžník"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Przełęcz Okraj"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Habartice"
> "wikipedia": "de:Prebischtor"
> "wikipedia": "Děčínský Sněžník"
> "wikipedia": "de:Nové Zvolání"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Vidnava (stacja kolejowa)"
> "wikipedia": "de:Jitrovník"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Kiczory (szczyt)"
> "wikipedia": "de:Prager Altstadt"
> "wikipedia": "en:Rešov (Horní Město)"
> "wikipedia": "de:Cínovec"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Wielka Czantoria"
> "wikipedia": "en:The Resistance Flag Monument Statue, Prague"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Polanka (dzielnica Krosna)"
> "wikipedia": "pl:Przełęcz Beskidek"
> "wikipedia": "en:Czech Republic"
> "wikipedia": "de:Jeřabina"
> "wikipedia": "https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cern%C3%A1_studnice;
> "wikipedia": "en:European GNSS Agency"
> "wikipedia": "de:Burg Nové Hrady"
> "wikipedia": "de:Pracký kopec"
> "wikipedia": "de:Adolfov"
> "wikipedia": "en:Krušná hora"
> "wikipedia": "de:Mílov (Boží Dar)"
> "wikipedia": "http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreck%C3%BD_vrch;
> "wikipedia": "pl:Przełęcz Szklarska (Sudety)"
> "wikipedia": "en:Prague Metronome"
> "wikipedia": "de:Lesenská pláň"
> "wikipedia": "http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kladská
>

Re: [Talk-cz] Chybné Turn Restriction (Praha, Brno)

2016-02-13 Per discussione Tom Ka

Tak jsem prosel Moravu abych si to vyzkousel, nareportoval problem na
map.comlu.com s portem pro JOSM a poopravoval co jsem videl. Diky za
zajimavy podnet!

Dne 3. února 2016 18:35 Vladimír Domes  napsal(a):
> Ahoj,
> v rámci skoro celého Moravskoslezského kraje pravidelně kontroluju a
> opravuju všechny turn restrikce.
>
> Nenašel by se někdo na podobnou činnost hlavně v okolí Prahy a Brna?
> V Praze jich je teď chybných cca 27 a v Brně cca 9.
>
> Ke kontrole používám http://map.comlu.com, možno použít i
> http://restrictions.morbz.de.
>
> Většinou jde o přehozené Only/No, chybějící/nadbývající členy relace nebo
> zbytečné použití v kombinaci s jednosměrkou.
>
>   Díky, V.
>
>
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>

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Re: [Talk-cz] příbuzná setkání - Brno - únor

2016-02-13 Per discussione Tom Ka

Diky, zal jsem si do kalendare, uvidim jak budu stihat.

Dne 13. února 2016 11:32 Ladislav Nesnera  napsal(a):

> Na lednové brněnské hospodě konané v únoru jsem opět navrhoval expedici na 
> wikipedistický
> sraz
> 
> 17.2. od 18:00 (pro inspiraci a hledání průniků). Nezůstalo to bez odezvy,
> ale prý že avizovat dlouho dopředu a pak před akcí. To první nešlo, neb
> Blahma dotáhl popis až včera. Ale možná jsem vymyslel fintu, jak nespamovat
> víc než jednou :-D
>
> A kdyby někdo neměl sociálna dost, přihřeju si openalťáckou polívčičku -
> 19. 2. od 18:00 máme 125. sraz 
> a napotřetí se nám povedlo dostat do Stavby
> , tak snad jejich pověst nelže.
>
> Wikipedie
>
>
> OpenAlt
>
>
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>
>
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[Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Mikoláš Štrajt

Zdravím,

nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár 
upřesňujících dotazů.

-- 
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Re: [Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Tom Ka

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Speirs

Zkousel jsem ho taky kontaktovat kvuli paws, ale prislo mi ze moc o
nejakou komunikaci, pomoc apod. nestoji.

Dne 13. února 2016 13:10 Mikoláš Štrajt  napsal(a):
> Zdravím,
>
> nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár
> upřesňujících dotazů.
>
> --
> Mikoláš Štrajt / Severák
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jan Skala

Ahoj, 

sem s tím! 

Honza

Dne 13. 2. 2016 1:10 PM napsal uživatel Mikoláš Štrajt :
>
> Zdravím,
>
> nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár 
> upřesňujících dotazů.
>
> -- 
> Mikoláš Štrajt / Severák
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Re: [Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Lukáš Gebauer


Dne 13.2.2016 v 13:10 Mikoláš Štrajt napsal(a):
nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár 
upřesňujících dotazů.


Mimochodem, velmi dobra mapa pro offline pouziti v mobilu pri turistice, 
geocachingu, atd! Toto jsou projekty, ktere je hodno propagovat, protoze 
dokazi i nezasvecenym demonstrovat, ze OSM je uzitecne i jim.




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Re: [Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Pavel Zbytovský

Jojo, nechtěl byste někdo (Honzo?) sepsat základní info o projektu na
osmap.cz/projekty ? .. jakože screenshoty a něco pro BFU..
Pošlete mi přímo maila a rád tam přidělím oprávnění.

P.

Dne 13. února 2016 17:45 Lukáš Gebauer  napsal(a):

> Dne 13.2.2016 v 13:10 Mikoláš Štrajt napsal(a):
>
>> nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár
>> upřesňujících dotazů.
>>
>
> Mimochodem, velmi dobra mapa pro offline pouziti v mobilu pri turistice,
> geocachingu, atd! Toto jsou projekty, ktere je hodno propagovat, protoze
> dokazi i nezasvecenym demonstrovat, ze OSM je uzitecne i jim.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-cz] osm.paws.cz

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jan Skala


Jistě, nekomerční reklama se vždycky hodí. :)

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 19:21:33 +0100, Pavel Zbytovský   
wrote:



Jojo, nechtěl byste někdo (Honzo?) sepsat základní info o projektu na
osmap.cz/projekty ? .. jakože screenshoty a něco pro BFU..
Pošlete mi přímo maila a rád tam přidělím oprávnění.

P.

Dne 13. února 2016 17:45 Lukáš Gebauer  napsal(a):


Dne 13.2.2016 v 13:10 Mikoláš Štrajt napsal(a):


nemáte někdo kontakt na autora http://osm.paws.cz/ ? Mám na něja pár
upřesňujících dotazů.



Mimochodem, velmi dobra mapa pro offline pouziti v mobilu pri turistice,
geocachingu, atd! Toto jsou projekty, ktere je hodno propagovat, protoze
dokazi i nezasvecenym demonstrovat, ze OSM je uzitecne i jim.




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Re: [Talk-de] Offene Geodaten in Sachsen - Bitte noch abwarten

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jochen Topf

On Sa, Feb 13, 2016 at 09:21:46 +0100, Joachim Kast wrote:
> Diese Antwort erinnert mich sehr an Baden-Württemberg, wo die
> veröffentllichten Daten [3] zwar unter inkompatiblem CC-BY stehen, aber
> der Minister per Presseerklärung [4] die OSM-Nutzung gestattete.

> [4]
> https://mlr.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/unser-service/presse-und-oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/pressemitteilung/pid/amtliche-geodaten-werden-kostenlos-zur-verfuegung-gestellt-1/

Mir ist unklar, wie Du aus dieser Presseerklärung eine Erlaubnis für die
OSM-Nutzung rausliest. Da steht nur die Behauptung "Damit sei auch eine
langjährige Forderung der OpenStreetMap-Community erfüllt." Das kann ich so
nicht nachvollziehen. Was genau war denn diese Forderung? Sicher ist es besser,
dass die Daten so rausgegeben werden, als dass es sie nur gegen Geld gibt. Das
freut uns natürlich. Aber nutzbar sind sie so für uns immernoch nicht. Und
selbst wenn in der Presseerklärung mehr drin stände, eine Presseerklärung
ersetzt keine klare juristische Aussage der zuständigen Landesämter.

Ich kann die Datenlizenz Deutschland – Namensnennung – Version 2.0 nur so
lesen: Wenn man die Daten irgendwie nutzt, dann muss man die Quelle (LGL bzw.
halt das Land Sachsen) erwähnen. Diese Forderung "vererbt" sich bis zum
Endnutzer der Daten. Wenn die Daten aber mit unseren vermischt werden in OSM,
dann fordern wir hinterher nur noch, dass OSM genannt wird. Und damit ist das
ganze inkompatibel.

Für mich ist also weiterhin klar: Wir dürfen diese Daten nicht in OSM
importieren. Da hilft kein rumreden. Entweder die Ämter ändern die Lizenz
komplett oder sie geben uns eine klar formulierte Sonderlizenz. Wir haben
dieses Thema doch schon tausendmal gehabt mit anderen Datenquellen. Wir
brauchen eine juristisch einwandfreie Aussage, dass sie damit zufrieden sind
auf http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright in der Liste der Contributors
genannt zu werden und dass sich darin dann ihr Recht auf Namensnennung
erschöpft. Wenn Sie das unterschreiben, dann ist das okay, vorher nicht.

Jochen
-- 
Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  http://www.jochentopf.com/  +49-351-31778688

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Re: [Talk-de] Offene Geodaten in Sachsen - Bitte noch abwarten

2016-02-13 Per discussione Christoph Hormann

On Saturday 13 February 2016, Joachim Kast wrote:
>
> Es handelt sich um die Rohdaten von
> - Flurstücken
> - Adressen (Hauskoordinaten)
> - Verwaltungseinheiten
> - Geografischen Bezeichnungen
>
> Bemerkenswert sind die maschinenlesbaren Hauskoordinaten, die wir in
> OSM sehr gut gebrauchen können. Für mich persönlich ist das die
> größte Überraschung, denn in der freien Wirtschaft wird für deren
> Nutzungsrechte viel Geld bezahlt. Mitte des Jahres sollen u.a. noch
> maschinenlesbare Hausumringe sowie WM(T)S DOP hinzukommen.

Das klingt erst mal recht gut.

Was für OSM denke ich zusätzlich sehr schön wäre sind 
Fließgewässer-Daten - garnicht unbedingt in maschinenlesbarer Form, 
denn ein Import wäre eh nicht wünschenswert - eine gerenderte 
Darstellung als WMS/TMS wäre völlig ausreichend.  In BW hat sich die 
maps4bw ja insbesondere im Gebirge als recht produktiv für die 
Ergänzung der Vor-Ort-Erfassung von Bächen erwiesen.

> Da die verwendete Lizenz aufgrund der Vererbungsproblematik der
> Namensnennung zu unserer Teilnehmervereinbarung leider inkompatibel
> ist, habe ich sofort nach passenden Nutzungsrechten nachgefragt.
> Vorgestern erhielt ich folgende Antwort:
> [...]

Das diese Problematik ja wirklich sehr verbreitet ist wäre es vielleicht 
eine gute Idee mal von OSM-Seite einen Formulierungsvorschlag für 
solche Lizenzen zu entwickeln, der in allgemeiner Form eine 
Quellen-Nennung vorschreibt, jedoch in einer Form, die von OSM 
erfüllbar ist.  Idealerweise sollte man so etwas mehrsprachig machen 
(de+en+fr+...)

Wenn - wie hier ja anscheinend der Fall - der prinzipielle Wunsch da 
ist, eine Nutzung durch OSM zu ermöglichen, wäre so etwas vermutlich 
für die Zukunft, ggf. im Rahmen einer dl-de-by 3.0, hilfreich.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-de] Offene Geodaten in Sachsen - Bitte noch abwarten

2016-02-13 Per discussione Christoph Hormann

On Saturday 13 February 2016, Jochen Topf wrote:
> > https://mlr.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/unser-service/presse-und-oeffe
> >ntlichkeitsarbeit/pressemitteilung/pid/amtliche-geodaten-werden-kost
> >enlos-zur-verfuegung-gestellt-1/
>
> Mir ist unklar, wie Du aus dieser Presseerklärung eine Erlaubnis für
> die OSM-Nutzung rausliest. Da steht nur die Behauptung "Damit sei
> auch eine langjährige Forderung der OpenStreetMap-Community erfüllt."
> Das kann ich so nicht nachvollziehen. Was genau war denn diese
> Forderung? Sicher ist es besser, dass die Daten so rausgegeben
> werden, als dass es sie nur gegen Geld gibt. Das freut uns natürlich.
> Aber nutzbar sind sie so für uns immernoch nicht. Und selbst wenn in
> der Presseerklärung mehr drin stände, eine Presseerklärung ersetzt
> keine klare juristische Aussage der zuständigen Landesämter.

Das hier aber vermutlich schon:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2013-March/101328.html

Wie schon gesagt: es wäre natürlich für Alle schöner und weniger Arbeit, 
wenn die gewählte Lizenz gleich klar die OSM-Nutzung abdeckt.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-de] Offene Geodaten in Sachsen - Bitte noch abwarten

2016-02-13 Per discussione Joachim Kast

Am 13.02.2016 um 11:55 schrieb Christoph Hormann:
> Wie schon gesagt: es wäre natürlich für Alle schöner und weniger Arbeit, 
> wenn die gewählte Lizenz gleich klar die OSM-Nutzung abdeckt.

Das sage ich den Behörden schon seit langem. Die meisten Open Data
Berater und Lobbyisten kennen sich leider nur mit Sachdaten aus und
übersehen, dass OpenGeoData um ein bis zwei Größenordnungen komplexer ist.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Additional Tagging Suggestions for Schools

2016-02-13 Per discussione Lester Caine

On 12/02/16 23:01, John Aldridge wrote:
> You mean they serve the same function as not:name does for street names
> in reducing noise from automated consistency checking? OK, I can see
> that's useful.
> 
>> But don't assume that the data
>> provided by the third party are more up to date than the OSM version ;)
> 
> But in this case of official_name I thought you were saying the
> appropriate value was the value from edubase, so by definition it
> couldn't be out of date there.

I suspect that some of the NAMES on edubase are actually wrong as well,
certainly for some of the academy schools, although there does seem to
be a little more consistency NOW for adding a new entry and closing the
old one when a schools status changes, so the logged 'official_name' on
OSM realy is just a hook to how the match was confirmed. Now we just
need messages from edubase when a schools reference changes :) But I am
playing with historic stuff to see if I can create a history for each
school from the edubase data. Very much a back burner job, but amazing
what you can conjure up using a relational database ...

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Other Routes With Public Access

2016-02-13 Per discussione Dudley Ibbett

Hi

I came across a paved single lane "road" on a recent walk that was sign posted 
in both directions as a "Public Road" It makes a loop between two 
"unclassified" roads.
Functionally, is seems to be a service route for an isolated farm that sits at 
the top of the loop, although it would make quite an useful link road between 
the two "unclassified" roads .  I crossed it at the top of the loop so I don't 
know what there was with regards to signs at each end.  On the OS 1:25 it is 
marked as "Other Routes With Public Access".  Is there anything I can infer 
from the use of the term "Public Road".  i.e foot, horse, bicycle, vehicle = 
yes/no? How are people tagging the "designation" of such routes,  i.e. are 
people using  "designation=other routes with public access"?

Many Thanks

Dudley
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Re: [Talk-GB] Other Routes With Public Access

2016-02-13 Per discussione Nick Whitelegg


Hello Dudley,


Not sure if it's standard but I use either "designation=orpa" if there's 
explicit evidence of it being one, or "suspected=orpa" if there isn't (e.g. a 
'green lane' which is unsignposted but has evidence of regular foot/horse use).


Nick



From: Dudley Ibbett 
Sent: 13 February 2016 14:57
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Other Routes With Public Access

Hi

I came across a paved single lane "road" on a recent walk that was sign posted 
in both directions as a "Public Road" It makes a loop between two 
"unclassified" roads.
Functionally, is seems to be a service route for an isolated farm that sits at 
the top of the loop, although it would make quite an useful link road between 
the two "unclassified" roads .  I crossed it at the top of the loop so I don't 
know what there was with regards to signs at each end.  On the OS 1:25 it is 
marked as "Other Routes With Public Access".  Is there anything I can infer 
from the use of the term "Public Road".  i.e foot, horse, bicycle, vehicle = 
yes/no? How are people tagging the "designation" of such routes,  i.e. are 
people using  "designation=other routes with public access"?

Many Thanks

Dudley
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Re: [Talk-GB] Other Routes With Public Access

2016-02-13 Per discussione Colin Smale

This page gives a bit of background info about these ORPAs on OS maps 

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/about/governance/foi/questions/2011/0041.html

--colin 

On 2016-02-13 21:10, Nick Whitelegg wrote:

> Hello Dudley, 
> 
> Not sure if it's standard but I use either "designation=orpa" if there's 
> explicit evidence of it being one, or "suspected=orpa" if there isn't (e.g. a 
> 'green lane' which is unsignposted but has evidence of regular foot/horse 
> use). 
> 
> Nick 
> 
> -
> 
> FROM: Dudley Ibbett 
> SENT: 13 February 2016 14:57
> TO: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> SUBJECT: Re: [Talk-GB] Other Routes With Public Access 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I came across a paved single lane "road" on a recent walk that was sign 
> posted in both directions as a "Public Road" It makes a loop between two 
> "unclassified" roads.
> Functionally, is seems to be a service route for an isolated farm that sits 
> at the top of the loop, although it would make quite an useful link road 
> between the two "unclassified" roads .  I crossed it at the top of the loop 
> so I don't know what there was with regards to signs at each end.  On the OS 
> 1:25 it is marked as "Other Routes With Public Access".  Is there anything I 
> can infer from the use of the term "Public Road".  i.e foot, horse, bicycle, 
> vehicle = yes/no? How are people tagging the "designation" of such routes,  
> i.e. are people using  "designation=other routes with public access"?
> 
> Many Thanks
> 
> Dudley 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Couche Route500 mise à jour (édition 2015)

2016-02-13 Per discussione Erwan Salomon

on peut utiliser cette couche pour renseigner le type de highway ?
le rendu .fr reprend le code couleur de l’IGN donc je suppose que oui
mais comme il y a beaucoup de différence entre routes500 et les highway d’OSM 
(y compris sur Paris et autres grandes ville que je crois correctement 
cartographiées) je doute
si oui à quoi correspondent les routes en gris et jaune ?
et peut-on intégrer la couche à JOSM ?


> Le 12 févr. 2016 à 13:33, Christian Quest  a écrit :
> 
> J'ai mis à jour la couche Route500 sur tile.openstreetmap.fr
> avec les données 2015 de l'IGN (publiées discrètement en août dernier).
> 
> Elles débordent un peu des frontières françaises, mais semblent très
> décalées dès qu'on s'éloigne un peu.
> 
> Exemple:
> http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14=50.86975=4.30123=B000TF
> 
> -- 
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Couche Route500 mise à jour (édition 2015)

Elles ne sont pas décalées qu'en Belgique. Même en France le tracé des
autoroutes est très approximatif...
Certes moins qu'en Belgique, mais assez pour ne pas le reprendre tel quel
(OSM est mieux), sinon ça coupe des batiments!

http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14=50.86975=4.30123=B000TF

A Paris il n'y a pas de gros problèmes, les écarts son minimes, mais il y
en a quand même (assez problématique ici):

http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14=50.86975=4.30123=B000TF

On peut parfois repérer quelques oublis dans OSM, mais OSM est nettement
plus riche en chemins (il en manque plein dans Route500 qui ne semble pas
descendre en dessous des départementales)

En revanche la classification semble aussi problématique dans Route500
(avec des chemins de ferme boueux classés comme routes).

C'est tout de même intéressant car on peut voir que globalement la qualité
d'OSM n'a pas à souffir la comparaison avec Route500, qui ressemeble en
fait plus à une moyenne de traces GPX.

Le 12 février 2016 à 13:33, Christian Quest  a
écrit :

> J'ai mis à jour la couche Route500 sur tile.openstreetmap.fr
> avec les données 2015 de l'IGN (publiées discrètement en août dernier).
>
> Elles débordent un peu des frontières françaises, mais semblent très
> décalées dès qu'on s'éloigne un peu.
>
> Exemple:
>
> http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=14=50.86975=4.30123=B000TF
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] amenity=townhall et place=village à séparer ?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Christian Rogel

Le 13 févr. 2016 à 03:18, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
> La CAF n'est pas a proprement parler un service public, même si elle est 
> investie d'une mission de service public, surtout par les départements. Et 
> elle n'est pas seule, car il y a d'autres organismes paritaires ayant les 
> mêmes missions comme la MSA. Pour moi c'est plutôt un "social_facility". 
> Comme aussi les caisses de sécurité sociale ou caisses de retraites des 
> régimes obligatoires.
> 
Social_facility est évident, mais la question est l'attribut de caractérisation.
Dans la mesure où les CAF reçoivent du public, on peut ajouter 
social_facility=outreach, mais, ensuite que mettre à social_facility:for=  ?
Il ne semble pas y avoir  de tag spécifique pour les familles avec enfants.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] amenity=townhall et place=village à séparer ?

Le 13 février 2016 à 13:38, Christian Rogel <
christian.ro...@club-internet.fr> a écrit :

> Le 13 févr. 2016 à 03:18, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
> La CAF n'est pas a proprement parler un service public, même si elle est
> investie d'une mission de service public, surtout par les départements. Et
> elle n'est pas seule, car il y a d'autres organismes paritaires ayant les
> mêmes missions comme la MSA. Pour moi c'est plutôt un "social_facility".
> Comme aussi les caisses de sécurité sociale ou caisses de retraites des
> régimes obligatoires.
>
> Social_facility est évident, mais la question est l'attribut de
> caractérisation.
> Dans la mesure où les CAF reçoivent du public, on peut ajouter
> social_facility=outreach, mais, ensuite que mettre à social_facility:for=  ?
> Il ne semble pas y avoir  de tag spécifique pour les familles avec enfants.
>

Il ne semble pas y avoir non plus de CAF spécifiquement pour les familles
avec enfants. La CAF (et la MSA et quelques autres organismes suivant les
régions ou corporations, et certaines mutuelles étudiantes) s'occupe aussi
du logement et du RSA pour tout le monde (non pas en fonction de la
situation familiale mais des ressources), pas que des familles avec enfants
(elle ne s'occupe pas que des allocations familiales).

Sinon je ne vois pas trop le rapport avec "social_facility=outreach"
(sensibilisation) qui me semble plus adapté à des organismes comme les
maisons de la jeunesse, les centres de planning familial, les organismes
d'insertion sociale, ou certaines assos à caractère social comme les Restos
du Coeur, les centres d'accueil de réfugiés, les centres du SAMU social.
Je verrais plutôt "social_facility=welfare" pour les organismes de sécurité
sociale qui s'occupent des prestations sociales de base.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Couche Route500 mise à jour (édition 2015)

2016-02-13 Per discussione JB


Le 13/02/2016 12:38, Erwan Salomon a écrit :

on peut utiliser cette couche pour renseigner le type de highway ?

Dans les zones « bien » cartographiées : non, ce n'est pas une bonne idée.
Une personne avec qui on travaillait par l'intermédiaire de notes 
proposait toute une série de reclassement d'après Route500, on les avait 
finalement toutes refusées. La contribution manuelle avec la 
connaissance du terrain est beaucoup plus efficace et cohérente que 
Route500.

JB.

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[OSM-talk-fr] Changements de location=* avec location:transition=yes

2016-02-13 Per discussione François Lacombe

Bonjour à tous,

Une petite information que je crois avoir oublié de diffuser ici : la
proposition sur les changements de localisation pour des objets
linéaires tels que les pipelines, câbles électriques ou câbles
sous-marin a récemment été approuvée par vote sur le wiki.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Location_transitions

Une clé unique permet désormais de documenter les endroits où ces
objets passent de l'aérien au souterrain, du sous-marin au terrestre,
etc... et est particulièrement utile lorsque l'on ne peut pas suivre
l'objet qui continue sous terre ou sous l'eau.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:location:transition%3Dyes

Tout cela est en anglais, l'utilisation est très simple :
Il suffit d'ajouter location:transition=yes sur un nœud au droit du
changement de localisation, que les deux parties soient connues ou
pas.

Exemples :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1936741197#map=19/45.93596/6.15185=D
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2273329828#map=19/46.11414/6.05299=D

Cela correspond au clés/valeurs plus spécifiques
tower=air_to_ground
tower=transition
pole=transition
tower=location_transition
pole=location_transition
et autres...
Elles peuvent être remplacées, avec parcimonie et au cas par cas en
étant bien sûrs de ce que vous faites.

Bien que le domaine soit très technique, il est possible de s'en
servir sur à peu près tout.
On évite ainsi l'utilisation d'un fixme=continue ou assimilé lorsque
l'on perd de vue quelque chose.
On s'attend par contre à trouver une valeur pour location=* sur tous
les objets connectés au nœud qui portent location:transition=yes


Bon week end

François


--
François Lacombe

fl dot infosreseaux At gmail dot com
www.infos-reseaux.com
@InfosReseaux

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[Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Antonio Iacchetti



Buongiorno a tutti,

mi sono iscritto quest'anno ad un corso di scialpinismo e vorrei 
approfittarne innanzitutto per mappare i percorsi che farò ma anche per 
provare a sensibilizzare compagni e istruttori sulle potenzialità di OSM.


Innanzitutto sarebbe utile avere una mappa scaricabile su cellulare 
specifica per la montagna invernale. Sarebbe un ottimo modo per 
avvicinare persone a OSM invogliandole poi a contribuire in prima 
persona (io uso Oruxmap e ho visto che è uno strumento già diffuso). Ad 
esempio una volta c'era openpistemap ma il progetto è chiuso. 
Opensnowmap mi sembra interessante ma io non riesco a scaricarla in 
Oruxmap (sicuramente a causa della mia ignoranza informatica:) ). 
Qualcuno conosce soluzioni alternative?


La seconda domanda è se esiste una comunità o un gruppo di discussione 
OSM dedicato allo scialpinismo o anche in generale all'alpinismo. Questo 
per sapere a chi chiedere consigli ma in prospettiva, se riuscissi ad 
appassionare istruttori e gente esperta, sarebbe bello incentivarli 
anche a contribuire nella definizione dei tag specifici (ad esempio non 
trovo un tag specifico per le difficoltà di un percorso scialpinistico.. 
cioè ci sarebbe piste:difficulty ma accorpa sci da discesa, fondo e 
scialpinismo).


Grazie mille,
Antonio


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[Talk-de] Offene Geodaten in Sachsen - Bitte noch abwarten

2016-02-13 Per discussione Joachim Kast

Dieser Beitrag wurde auch im Forum [1] veröffentlicht

*** Bitte Edit-Sperrfrist bis 19.02.2015 14:42 Uhr MEZ beachten ***

Zu Jahresbeginn hat der den Staatsbetrieb Geobasisinformation und
Vermessung Sachsen (GeoSN) vier INSPIRE-konforme Datensätze unter der
Datenlizenz Deutschland 2.0 (Namensnennung) freigegeben [2].

Es handelt sich um die Rohdaten von
- Flurstücken
- Adressen (Hauskoordinaten)
- Verwaltungseinheiten
- Geografischen Bezeichnungen

Bemerkenswert sind die maschinenlesbaren Hauskoordinaten, die wir in OSM
sehr gut gebrauchen können. Für mich persönlich ist das die größte
Überraschung, denn in der freien Wirtschaft wird für deren
Nutzungsrechte viel Geld bezahlt. Mitte des Jahres sollen u.a. noch
maschinenlesbare Hausumringe sowie WM(T)S DOP hinzukommen.

Da die verwendete Lizenz aufgrund der Vererbungsproblematik der
Namensnennung zu unserer Teilnehmervereinbarung leider inkompatibel ist,
habe ich sofort nach passenden Nutzungsrechten nachgefragt. Vorgestern
erhielt ich folgende Antwort:

Verwendung der freigegebenen INSPIRE-konformen Datensätze; Az.:
42-2910.90/14

auf Ihre Anfragen vom 12. bzw. 19. Januar 2016 zur Verwendung der
freigegebenen INSPIRE-Datensätze der GDI Sachsen durch OSM teilen wir
Ihnen mit, dass die Daten gemäß der vergebenen Datenlizenz Deutschland –
Namensnennung 2.0 uneingeschränkt genutzt werden dürfen. Die o. g.
Datensätze sind als open data erklärt und mittlerweile im GovData-Portal
Deutschland recherchierbar, auch um die breite Nutzung dieser Daten z.
B. durch die OSM Community zu fördern.

Bezüglich des anzubringenden Quellenvermerks liegt es beim Nutzer – je
nach Produkt und Besonderheit der jeweiligen Verwendung – eine geeignete
Stelle zu identifizieren und die entsprechende Kennzeichnung vorzunehmen.

Für eine über die Lizenz hinausgehende ergänzende Erklärung des GeoSN
zur Nutzung der Daten sehen wir daher kein Erfordernis.

Diese Antwort erinnert mich sehr an Baden-Württemberg, wo die
veröffentllichten Daten [3] zwar unter inkompatiblem CC-BY stehen, aber
der Minister per Presseerklärung [4] die OSM-Nutzung gestattete.

Da es gestern Abend in kleinem OSM-Kreis nicht eindeutig klar war, wie
die obige Antwort zu interpretieren ist, habe ich gestern nochmals lange
mit dem Leiter der Koordinierungsstelle GDI Sachsen telefoniert:

GeoSN hat sich nach langer interner Diskussion dazu entschlossen, nach
und nach fast alle Vermessungsdaten als Open Data bereitzustellen.
Einige Datensätze bedürfen jedoch noch einer Änderung des
Vermessungsgesetzes. Daher möchte man derzeit keine zusätzlichen
Nutzungsbedingungen schriftlich fixieren. In Anerkennung der bisherigen
beachtlichen Leistungen der OSM-Community wurden die Datenlizenz und
ihre Ausführungsbestimmungen genauestens durchleuchtet und GeoSN bietet
uns in Anlehnung an Baden-Württemberg die Auslegung "eine geeignete
Stelle zu identifizieren" an. Wir sollen hier (oder im Forum) darüber
diskutieren und GeoSN liest mit.

Daher auch die auf meiner Idee beruhende Sperrfrist bis nächsten
Freitag, um in Ruhe darüber zu nachzudenken. Wenn jemand zu früh [5]
loslegt, werde ich bei der DWG die temporäre Sperrung seines Accounts
bis zu diesem Zeitpunkt beantragen.

Das Land Sachsen hat ebenfalls bis dahin Zeit, der OSM-Nutzung der
bereitgestellten Daten ausdrücklich zu widersprechen. Meine Kontaktdaten
sind den Behörden bekannt.

In einem anderen Thread, also bitte hier nur die Juristerei, sollte
diskutiert werden, wie wir technisch mit diesem Datenschatz umgehen
werden, damit kein Chaos entsteht.

Joachim

[1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=53639
[2]
http://www.gdi.sachsen.de/inhalt/info/bericht/160108/160108.html]freigegeben
[3]
http://www.lgl-bw.de/lgl-internet/opencms/de/07_Produkte_und_Dienstleistungen/Open_Data_Initiative/index.html
[4]
https://mlr.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/unser-service/presse-und-oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/pressemitteilung/pid/amtliche-geodaten-werden-kostenlos-zur-verfuegung-gestellt-1/
[5]
http://www.der-postillon.com/2014/12/studie-neun-von-zehn-mannern-bollern-zu.html

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Re: [Talk-it] gradinata (scalinata ampia)

2016-02-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer



sent from a phone

> Am 13.02.2016 um 08:12 schrieb Aury88 :
> 
> tieni sempre a mente che l'uso del tag building o tag di superficie/area
> deve comunque essere associato ad una mappatura tramite way per venire
> incontro le necessità/capacità dei navigatori.


si, se hai una scalinata larga 200 metri, dove metti il way highway=steps , al 
centro? Ad ogni angolo? Ogni 30 metri? 
Sarà renderizzato come un percorso largo circa 5-10 metri, gli altri 190 metri 
li lasciamo bianchi? Vorrei una mappatura che rende possibile di creare dei 
render che fanno capire di cosa si tratta, una scalinata è ben diversa da delle 
semplici scale.

ciao,
Martin 
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[OSM-talk] Routing through access=delivery

2016-02-13 Per discussione Markus Heidelberg

Hi,

last week after missing the exit on a highway=motorway, a Garmin Nüvi
300 with a Lambertus map tried to turn through a service road mapped
with motor_vehicle=delivery. This road connects the motorway directions
via service area on each side.

I thought this might be a problem with mkgmap (which creates the Garmin
maps), but Mapzen and OSRM routing behave the same:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=mapzen_car=49.31689%2C8.57541%3B49.31659%2C8.57453#map=17/49.31827/8.57205

Is this on purpose or do all three maps/routers ignore the
access=delivery tags wrongly?

Additional info on an already existing note at the concerned location
(in German):
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/238113

Markus


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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Dario Zontini Gmail


Il 13/02/2016 21:29, Andrea Lattmann ha scritto:

Mi sono dimenticato di premettere una cosa: Non voglio obbligare nessuno a 
mappare ciò che non vuole, voglio solo capire il perché non devono essere 
mappate. Se è per il pericolo, se perché vie non ufficiali o quant'altro. Se èp 
per il pericolo a questo punto non andrebbero mappati neanche i sentieri. 
Scusate, non voglio rompere le scatole, vorrei una risposta, anche brutale. :-) 
pura curiosità...


Andrea Lattmann



La scelta di Michele va rispettata.

Non voglio rispondere al posto di Michele, ti dico la mia opinione:

1) fare scialpinismo comporta sempre un rischio più o meno alto, 
personalmente non vorrei indurre ad aumentare questo rischio perchè una 
persona si è fidata della mia mappatura. Questo vale anche per altre 
cose mappate? Si, ma in questo entrano in gioco molto più variabili 
rispetto ad un sentiero tradizionale.


2) stiamo parlando di risalire e scendere le montagne coperte di neve, 
dove mancano molti riferimenti che si hanno in estate e dove in poco 
tempo (quanto ha nevicato, tipo e strati di neve, dalla temperatura, dal 
vento, dall'inclinazione ed esposizione del pendio...) per raggiungere 
la stessa cima e aver un rischio minore si devono fare percorsi diversi 
o anche dover rinunciare. Faccio notare che non si ha una formula 
matematica infallibile, anche se ci sono vari metodi di valutazione. 
Personalmente  l'aspetto più difficile è: come faccio a disegnare una 
linea che tenga in considerazione tutte queste variabili? Se disegno una 
linea è quella, non ho modo di aggiungere una descrizione in cui spiego 
il perchè è stata disegnata in quel modo. Forse in alcuni casi sarebbe 
più utile disegnare un'area dove normalmente si passa?


Stando a quanto riportato in wiki " skitour: Una way o area 
_raccomandata _per lo Sci-alpinismo è un'area _usata generalmente da 
molti sciatori_ con l'obbiettivo di un'ascesa su pelli (nordica) e una 
discesa in neve fresca(backcountry)" faccio notare che si parla di way 
_raccomandata_.


La risposta che mi sono dato (ma non voglio passare per un esperto di 
scialpinismo) è quella di mappare  percorsi "classici" ( e pertanto 
nella pratica condivisi da molte altre persone ) ed inteso come percorso 
suggerito ma che ognuno si prenda le sue responsabilità valutando la 
situazione sul terreno o informandosi prima di partire (come qualunque 
buon escursionista dovrebbe fare). Ho riscontrato una situazione simile 
nel mappare dei persorsi su ghiacciaio dove non c'è un percorso 
ufficiale (ma le variabili in gioco comunque sono inferiori)




--


Dario Zontini



---
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] amenity=townhall et place=village à séparer ?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Christian Rogel


> Le 13 févr. 2016 à 13:53, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
> 
> Sinon je ne vois pas trop le rapport avec "social_facility=outreach" 
> (sensibilisation) qui me semble plus adapté à des organismes comme les 
> maisons de la jeunesse, les centres de planning familial, les organismes 
> d'insertion sociale, ou certaines assos à caractère social comme les Restos 
> du Coeur, les centres d'accueil de réfugiés, les centres du SAMU social.
> Je verrais plutôt "social_facility=welfare" pour les organismes de sécurité 
> sociale qui s'occupent des prestations sociales de base.

Je ne vois pas bien l’ objection sur le sens. « Outreach » n’a pas que le sens 
étroit de sensibilisation, il concerne tout type d’action (sociale, religieuse) 
qui a pour but d’aller au plus près de la cible. Toutes les permanences à but 
social pourrait aller dans l’attribut (permanences locales, comme accueil au 
siège de la CAF).
 Mais, je ne connaissais pas « welfare ». Cela semble convenir pour toute la 
SS, dont la CAF est une composante et tous les organismes similaires. 
Cependant, il faut voir si un « social_facility:for » est applicable.
 
Mais, comme je l’ai dit sur la liste, en août dernier, « outreach » me semble 
convenir pour les Maison départementales des personnes handicapées.

Christian R.


Note : Cet échange n’est pas sur la liste. Est-ce volontaire ?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Georeferencing lots of photos using JOSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Michael Reichert

Hi Russ,

Am 13.02.2016 um 21:41 schrieb Russ Nelson:
> Solution: I remember where I took every photo (but if I see you
> walking on the street I won't remember your name; go figure), so it's
> just a matter of getting a lat/lon and storing it with every
> photo. So, I look at the photo, and use JOSM to visit that location. I
> add a node at the location I took a photo, use Ctrl-Alt-C to copy the
> lat/lon, then Ctrl-Z to remove the node. Then I copy the lat/lon into
> a shell command called "setgps" (included below), which takes three
> parameters: lat, long, and the photo. It uses exiftool to stuff the
> lat/lon and hemisphere into the photo.

There is a JOSM plugin which fetches coordinates from a GPX waypoint
which has the same name as the photo. I haven't tried it yet because
there was no need to try it.

Best regards

Michael


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[OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Russ Nelson

Here's a possibly silly, possibly serious question: who do we trust to
keep photos of features? Once I finish gathering my set of photos of
NY railroad bridges, where should I upload them so that I can
automagically add links to the photos to each OSM bridge=yes way?

Flickr? Archive.org? Wikimedia.org? Google Photos? Instagram?

The trouble with any for-profit service is that if they cease to make
money, they will be shut down. The trouble with any non-profit service
is that if they cease to get donations, they will be shut down.

Has anybody attempted to solve this problem before in other problem
domains? Unfortunately, I don't know everything (it's a flaw of mine),
so it's quite possible that there is some RFC or standard or suchlike
where you name a photo with an MD5 of its contents, and then upload it
to multiple sites or something like that I have no idea quite what.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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[Talk-cz] FOSS4G-CZ/SK

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jachym Cepicky

Přátelé,

rád bych nakousnul téma oficiální konference s hlavičkou FOSS4G na našich
územích.

Moje představa je taková, že by se jednalo o konferenci putovní - tak, aby
se dostala i do vzdálenějších regionů. Klidně bychom to mohli navázat na
existující akce, kterých je po republice dost a dost. Zároveň by na
konferenci mohla proběhnout valná hromada Spolku.

Konfence by mohla být spíše  na bázi "un-conference" - tedy méně
organizačně náročná.

Pokud by se přidali naši kamarádi z OSM komunity, tím lépe.

Hlásil by se někdo do organizačního výboru? Ten by měl nosit "know how" a
uvážlivě vybírat místo pro další ročník a nastavit proces případného výběru
příspěvků.

Hlásil by se někdo už pro letošní rok?

Byl jsem na Pycon.cz v Brně minulý rok (0-tý ročník) a ukázalo se, že
angličtina opravdu nemusí být bariéra, naopak to přitáhlo hodně lidí ze
zahraničí (austrálie, polsko, rakousko ...)

tolik moje dojmy

J
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Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Michael Reichert

Hi Russ,

Am 13.02.2016 um 22:24 schrieb Russ Nelson:
> Here's a possibly silly, possibly serious question: who do we trust to
> keep photos of features? Once I finish gathering my set of photos of
> NY railroad bridges, where should I upload them so that I can
> automagically add links to the photos to each OSM bridge=yes way?
> 
> Flickr? Archive.org? Wikimedia.org? Google Photos? Instagram?

Do you speak of adding a image=$URL tag to these bridges? (Btw, I would
add a man_made=bridge polygon if you have good aerial imagery and add
the image=* tag to this polygon)

image=* should – from my point of view – only used for images which have
been published under a free and open license and whose platform can
easily queried for the image's license by data users.

Best regards

Michael


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Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jo

Commons on Wikipedia/Wikimedia? Mapillary? Upload them to 4 different
services, to be sure? Spread the risk.

Polyglot

2016-02-13 22:41 GMT+01:00 Michael Reichert :

> Hi Russ,
>
> Am 13.02.2016 um 22:24 schrieb Russ Nelson:
> > Here's a possibly silly, possibly serious question: who do we trust to
> > keep photos of features? Once I finish gathering my set of photos of
> > NY railroad bridges, where should I upload them so that I can
> > automagically add links to the photos to each OSM bridge=yes way?
> >
> > Flickr? Archive.org? Wikimedia.org? Google Photos? Instagram?
>
> Do you speak of adding a image=$URL tag to these bridges? (Btw, I would
> add a man_made=bridge polygon if you have good aerial imagery and add
> the image=* tag to this polygon)
>
> image=* should – from my point of view – only used for images which have
> been published under a free and open license and whose platform can
> easily queried for the image's license by data users.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Georeferencing lots of photos using JOSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione Jorge López




El 13/02/2016 a las 21:41, Russ Nelson escribió:

I'm trying to verify every(!) abandoned railroad bridge in NY with a
field trip and a photographic record. It's worth doing, because I
found a couple of bridges I thought I could see on the aerials, but
which weren't actually there, a few that were reconstructs, not
original RR bridges, and a few that had been dismantled (sob!).

Problem: I've already visited a majority but not all. Which ones?
Problem: not all my photos are georeferenced.
Problem: I don't have a GPS track for them either (otherwise I would
and do use exiftool's geosync facility).

Solution: I remember where I took every photo (but if I see you
walking on the street I won't remember your name; go figure), so it's
just a matter of getting a lat/lon and storing it with every
photo. So, I look at the photo, and use JOSM to visit that location. I
add a node at the location I took a photo, use Ctrl-Alt-C to copy the
lat/lon, then Ctrl-Z to remove the node. Then I copy the lat/lon into
a shell command called "setgps" (included below), which takes three
parameters: lat, long, and the photo. It uses exiftool to stuff the
lat/lon and hemisphere into the photo.
I made last summer a plugin for JOSM called Mapillary plugin. It would 
allow you to import all the pictures, drag them into the correct 
lat/lon, make sequences out of them and then export them to a local 
directory or upload them to Mapillary service.


#!/usr/bin/python
"""takes three parameters: lat, long, and the photo filename.jpg"""

import sys, os

lat = sys.argv[1].replace(",", "")
lon = sys.argv[2]
if float(lat) > 0: latdir = "N"
else: latdir = "S"
if float(lon) > 0: londir = "E"
else: londir = "W"

os.system("exiftool -GPSLatitudeRef=%s -GPSLatitude='%s' -GPSLongitudeRef=%s 
-GPSLongitude=%s '%s'" % (latdir, lat, londir, lon, sys.argv[3]))

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[Talk-pe] Maps of the Itaya and Napo Rivers

2016-02-13 Per discussione Priscilla Dao

Hello,

My name is Priscilla and I am currently a student studying Chemical
Engineering at the University of Colorado at Boulder. I am conducting
research with the guidance of Professor Alan Mickelson on the development
of communication networks in the hopes of reducing malaria outbreaks in the
communities along the Itaya and the Napo River in Peru. Finding information
about the region online has been quite difficult and as a result, I am
sending this email in the hopes of finding maps of the region that are not
readily accessible. These include:

1) A map that identifies the locations of all health posts along the Itaya
and Napo Rivers respectively
2) A map for the dry and wet season of Peru that shows how water levels for
these two rivers fluctuate over the course of the year
3) A map that identifies the locations of all the cell towers in the area,
so we can better distinguish between areas that have cell phone coverage
and those that do not

If you have access to the requested information or know someone who you
would recommend getting in touch with, I would really appreciate it if you
could pass the information along. Thank you.

Kind regards,
Priscilla

-- 
*Priscilla Dao*
Email: priscilla@colorado.edu
Chemical and Biological Engineering
University of Colorado at Boulder

*I would love to live*
*Like a river flows.*
*Carried by the surprise*
*Of its own unfolding.*
*(John O'Donohue)*
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Re: [OSM-ja] 2/20 京都世界遺産マッピングパーティ：第１１回醍醐寺（下醍醐）

2016-02-13 Per discussione yasunari

京都の山下です。みなさんこんにちわ。

次回の京都世界遺産マッピングパーティは来週末です。
https://openstreetmap.doorkeeper.jp/events/37721

京都の世界遺産も残すところ２．５か所。
終わってしまうまでに一度参加しませんか？！
皆さんのお越しをお待ちしています！！


In message <20160121.225733.01380934.yasun...@yamasita.jp>
yasun...@yamasita.jp writes

 > 京都の山下です。みなさんこんにちわ。
 > 
 > 次回の京都世界遺産マッピングパーティは
 > 2/20 に醍醐寺（下醍醐）。
 > https://openstreetmap.doorkeeper.jp/events/37721
 > 
 > 京都に５つしか（！）ない五重塔のうちの一つがある
 > 下醍醐をマッピングに行きます。
 > 
 > あなたも京都の世界遺産に１ノードを残しませんか！？
 > 皆さんのお越しをお待ちしています！！
 > --
 > 山下康成＠京都府向日市

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[OSM-talk] license changes

Any license change process, or anything remotely close to it, should be open 
and transparent. It should involve the community from the start and any company 
that wants to participate too.

This is painful, and it takes a long time to do. But it’s the right way to do 
it. And it’s what we did when we switched from CC to ODbL.

...

Recently a few people came up with a proposal to engage some various academic 
law students to provide analysis around the ODbL. This by itself is useful and 
interesting and to be applauded.

Unfortunately this had to be done in only a couple of days and thus the LWG 
didn’t get a chance to analyze it. It was presented to the OSMF instead as the 
law students need a client for whom to work, and they needed a client quickly 
as term is starting. It was hoped the OSMF would be that client. There was a 
briefing document on what the students should work on - the questions they 
would like them to answer. The document wasn’t written by the LWG or OSMF.

I and others were against this for a number of reasons: It was rushed. Few 
people were involved. The community were absent as were a broad set of 
companies. The briefing document appeared focused around companies customers 
and changing the license around geocoding rather than broader issues. It 
mentioned forking OSM and building scenarios around that. OSMF decided against 
it.

This legal work is apparently going forward now with the OSMF-US as the client.

…

It’s fair that within the OSMF or LWG or any group there might be differences 
of opinion, and those opinions not plastered over the internet. And it’s fair 
that they may need to consider some things, some times, in secret. That’s why I 
asked all those involved if there was a problem making this public (nobody 
objected), and it’s why there are no names named.

Here’s what I’m worried about: In a few weeks or months someone might be able 
to wave around a headline saying “{Famous University} law students and OSMF-US 
say ODbL needs changing to allow X, Y or Z”. Or. "{Famous University} law 
students say we can fork OSM and change the license”.

That would be possible if they’ve specifically been asked that and been 
presented a very specific viewpoint, perhaps from one commercial point of view.

I ask that this whole process be opened up to both the community and other 
companies with an interest in OSM so that it is fair, balanced and not subject 
to any real or perceived biases. Most of all, it shouldn’t happen secretly away 
from the community and then just the results presented as a fait accompli. We 
should actively recruit people to be part of this kind of work instead of 
keeping it quiet.

My understanding is that the ship has sailed and the students have started 
working with the scenarios they have been given. Hopefully I’m wrong, but if 
this is the case and the work has started, then I ask that OSMF-US throw out 
the results since the LWG, the community and other companies have not been 
involved at all in what the students are to be asked.

The OSMF-US and/or those involved are creating some communication channels for 
the work that is happening. It is a question for next months meeting whether 
the community will be allowed in to those channels or if there will be an 
announcement. It makes me and others uncomfortable that this is a question at 
all, as does waiting another month, or weeks, or whatever the timeframe is and 
then being presented with the results on how to change the license. You should 
know this work is happening, what has been asked and why, otherwise this isn’t 
a very open project.

Lastly, please come help with the LWG. More people involved in what’s happening 
can only strengthen OSM and help us do more.

Steve
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[Talk-us] license changes

Any license change process, or anything remotely close to it, should be open 
and transparent. It should involve the community from the start and any company 
that wants to participate too.

This is painful, and it takes a long time to do. But it’s the right way to do 
it. And it’s what we did when we switched from CC to ODbL.

...

Recently a few people came up with a proposal to engage some various academic 
law students to provide analysis around the ODbL. This by itself is useful and 
interesting and to be applauded.

Unfortunately this had to be done in only a couple of days and thus the LWG 
didn’t get a chance to analyze it. It was presented to the OSMF instead as the 
law students need a client for whom to work, and they needed a client quickly 
as term is starting. It was hoped the OSMF would be that client. There was a 
briefing document on what the students should work on - the questions they 
would like them to answer. The document wasn’t written by the LWG or OSMF.

I and others were against this for a number of reasons: It was rushed. Few 
people were involved. The community were absent as were a broad set of 
companies. The briefing document appeared focused around companies customers 
and changing the license around geocoding rather than broader issues. It 
mentioned forking OSM and building scenarios around that. OSMF decided against 
it.

This legal work is apparently going forward now with the OSMF-US as the client.

…

It’s fair that within the OSMF or LWG or any group there might be differences 
of opinion, and those opinions not plastered over the internet. And it’s fair 
that they may need to consider some things, some times, in secret. That’s why I 
asked all those involved if there was a problem making this public (nobody 
objected), and it’s why there are no names named.

Here’s what I’m worried about: In a few weeks or months someone might be able 
to wave around a headline saying “{Famous University} law students and OSMF-US 
say ODbL needs changing to allow X, Y or Z”. Or. "{Famous University} law 
students say we can fork OSM and change the license”.

That would be possible if they’ve specifically been asked that and been 
presented a very specific viewpoint, perhaps from one commercial point of view.

I ask that this whole process be opened up to both the community and other 
companies with an interest in OSM so that it is fair, balanced and not subject 
to any real or perceived biases. Most of all, it shouldn’t happen secretly away 
from the community and then just the results presented as a fait accompli. We 
should actively recruit people to be part of this kind of work instead of 
keeping it quiet.

My understanding is that the ship has sailed and the students have started 
working with the scenarios they have been given. Hopefully I’m wrong, but if 
this is the case and the work has started, then I ask that OSMF-US throw out 
the results since the LWG, the community and other companies have not been 
involved at all in what the students are to be asked.

The OSMF-US and/or those involved are creating some communication channels for 
the work that is happening. It is a question for next months meeting whether 
the community will be allowed in to those channels or if there will be an 
announcement. It makes me and others uncomfortable that this is a question at 
all, as does waiting another month, or weeks, or whatever the timeframe is and 
then being presented with the results on how to change the license. You should 
know this work is happening, what has been asked and why, otherwise this isn’t 
a very open project.

Lastly, please come help with the LWG. More people involved in what’s happening 
can only strengthen OSM and help us do more.

Steve
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Re: [OSM-talk] license changes

2016-02-13 Per discussione Steve Doerr

Thanks for revealing this. No idea how you knew about it when nobody 
else did, but it's good, even vital, that you've brought it out into the 
open. Whoever you are.


I must admit, I don't really understand what it's about, but it's 
clearly important.


--
Steve

On 14/02/2016 00:24, Steve Coast wrote:

Any license change process, or anything remotely close to it, should be open 
and transparent. It should involve the community from the start and any company 
that wants to participate too.

This is painful, and it takes a long time to do. But it’s the right way to do 
it. And it’s what we did when we switched from CC to ODbL.

...

Recently a few people came up with a proposal to engage some various academic 
law students to provide analysis around the ODbL. This by itself is useful and 
interesting and to be applauded.

Unfortunately this had to be done in only a couple of days and thus the LWG 
didn’t get a chance to analyze it. It was presented to the OSMF instead as the 
law students need a client for whom to work, and they needed a client quickly 
as term is starting. It was hoped the OSMF would be that client. There was a 
briefing document on what the students should work on - the questions they 
would like them to answer. The document wasn’t written by the LWG or OSMF.

I and others were against this for a number of reasons: It was rushed. Few 
people were involved. The community were absent as were a broad set of 
companies. The briefing document appeared focused around companies customers 
and changing the license around geocoding rather than broader issues. It 
mentioned forking OSM and building scenarios around that. OSMF decided against 
it.

This legal work is apparently going forward now with the OSMF-US as the client.

…

It’s fair that within the OSMF or LWG or any group there might be differences 
of opinion, and those opinions not plastered over the internet. And it’s fair 
that they may need to consider some things, some times, in secret. That’s why I 
asked all those involved if there was a problem making this public (nobody 
objected), and it’s why there are no names named.

Here’s what I’m worried about: In a few weeks or months someone might be able to 
wave around a headline saying “{Famous University} law students and OSMF-US say ODbL 
needs changing to allow X, Y or Z”. Or. "{Famous University} law students say 
we can fork OSM and change the license”.

That would be possible if they’ve specifically been asked that and been 
presented a very specific viewpoint, perhaps from one commercial point of view.

I ask that this whole process be opened up to both the community and other 
companies with an interest in OSM so that it is fair, balanced and not subject 
to any real or perceived biases. Most of all, it shouldn’t happen secretly away 
from the community and then just the results presented as a fait accompli. We 
should actively recruit people to be part of this kind of work instead of 
keeping it quiet.

My understanding is that the ship has sailed and the students have started 
working with the scenarios they have been given. Hopefully I’m wrong, but if 
this is the case and the work has started, then I ask that OSMF-US throw out 
the results since the LWG, the community and other companies have not been 
involved at all in what the students are to be asked.

The OSMF-US and/or those involved are creating some communication channels for 
the work that is happening. It is a question for next months meeting whether 
the community will be allowed in to those channels or if there will be an 
announcement. It makes me and others uncomfortable that this is a question at 
all, as does waiting another month, or weeks, or whatever the timeframe is and 
then being presented with the results on how to change the license. You should 
know this work is happening, what has been asked and why, otherwise this isn’t 
a very open project.

Lastly, please come help with the LWG. More people involved in what’s happening 
can only strengthen OSM and help us do more.

Steve
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Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

2016-02-13 Per discussione Eugene Alvin Villar

On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> The trouble with any non-profit service is that if they cease to get
> donations, they will be shut down.
>

This observation also applies to the OSM database as hosted by the OSMF.
But we all still contribute to OSM anyway because we trust that OSMF or
another entity will be able to continue hosting the database. This is
possible because of the license.

I would suggest to upload your photos to Wikimedia Commons (of course with
an open/free license—Wikimedia Commons won't host it otherwise). You can
also provide a back-up on Flickr which also allows tagging photos under a
CC license.
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[OSM-ja] インターナショナルオープンデータデイｉｎ尼について

2016-02-13 Per discussione 多田真遵

お世話になっております。うぃるこむ＠尼崎です。

０３／０５（土）のインターナショナルオープンデータデイＩＯＤＤに尼崎市で
マッピングパーティを開催します。
https://www.facebook.com/events/1126604717352345/

交通弱者の方々（ベビーカーや車椅子ユーザや身障者等々）と一緒に歩いて
回って施設設備を調べたりに描き込んだり…
授乳室とかは
にしようかなと考え中です（良案あればご教示下さい）。

第一回なので、ゆる～く行う予定です。
ゴリゴリのマッパーの方には申し訳ないくらいゆるくするつもりです…。

近隣でご都合の良い方は是非ご参加下さい。
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Law clinic

Thanks Ian
Could you please share with the community the full briefing document, since OSM 
US is the client?
Best
Steve




On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:08 PM -0800, "Ian Dees"  wrote:










On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Steve Coast  wrote:
...
Hi Steve,
OpenStreetMap US did speak with a law clinic this past week. For now, we are 
acting as the point of contact and have been (and will continue to be) in 
contact with the Licensing Working Group and OSMF. As we understand more how 
this process works we'll be sure to get feedback from as much of the community 
as we can. My hope is that this is a first step in a long and helpful 
relationship between the OpenStreetMap community and a wider array of law 
professionals.
-Ian





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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Changements de location=* avec location:transition=yes

Le 13 février 2016 à 16:08, François Lacombe  a
écrit :

> Il suffit d'ajouter location:transition=yes sur un nœud au droit du
> changement de localisation, que les deux parties soient connues ou
> pas.
> (...)

On évite ainsi l'utilisation d'un fixme=continue ou assimilé lorsque
> l'on perd de vue quelque chose.
> On s'attend par contre à trouver une valeur pour location=* sur tous
> les objets connectés au nœud qui portent location:transition=yes
>

Le "fixme=continue" a des raisons de continuer à exister (pas sur le noeud
"location:transition=yes", mais sur le way précédent ou sur la relation qui
le contient; par exemple des petits chemins de randonnée ou chemins ruraux
pas terminés, des ruisseaux, des itinéraires incomplets comme les lignes de
bus ou cyclables).
Le cas "location:transition=yes" est terminé là où on le pose.
Cici dit je vois mal mettre des "location:transition=yes" sur les
extrémités de nombreux tunnels ou culverts, ou sur les ponts; le fait qu'on
ait marqué ou pas "tunnel=*" ou "bridge=*" devrait suffire à indiquer cette
transition au noeud d'interconnexion, cette transition est alors implicite.
Du coup je vois mal dans quel cas spécifique on aura réellement besoin de
marquer ces transitions, même pour les pylones et tours électriques.

En tout cas cela ne sera pas applicable au cas des chemins et ruisseaux
incomplets (par exemple non importés dans une feuille cadastrale
adjascente, ou invisibles sous la forêt dans l'imagerie aérienne, ou
simplement non visité sur le terrain quand on n'en a vu que le début sur le
côté du parcours ou sur une photo au sol montrant le début d'une rue dont
on ne sait pas exactement où elle va ou si elle a une issue).
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Re: [Talk-cz] příbuzná setkání - Brno - únor

2016-02-13 Per discussione Marián Kyral

Rád bych zašel, ale Brno je mimo mou obvyklou působnost. A ani kdyby to
bylo o víkendu, tak by mi to moc nepomohlo - to se snažím věnovat rodině.

Marián

Dne 13.2.2016 v 11:32 Ladislav Nesnera napsal(a):
> Na lednové brněnské hospodě konané v únoru jsem opět navrhoval
> expedici na wikipedistický sraz
> 
> 17.2. od 18:00 (pro inspiraci a hledání průniků). Nezůstalo to bez
> odezvy, ale prý že avizovat dlouho dopředu a pak před akcí. To první
> nešlo, neb Blahma dotáhl popis až včera. Ale možná jsem vymyslel
> fintu, jak nespamovat víc než jednou :-D
>
> A kdyby někdo neměl sociálna dost, přihřeju si openalťáckou polívčičku
> - 19. 2. od 18:00 máme 125. sraz
>  a napotřetí se nám povedlo
> dostat do Stavby , tak snad jejich
> pověst nelže.
>
> Wikipedie
>
>
> OpenAlt
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Scialpinismo su OSM

2016-02-13 Per discussione scratera

Michele Malfatti wrote
> Abito ai piedi dello Stivo e in base alle condizioni ci sono due vie di
> salita in base al meteo, piuttosto metterei le classiche salite zona
> Madonna di campiglio che sono segnate con paletti e nastri e tracciati da
> guide alpine. 
> Io resto del fatto di non inserire i percorsi e non se seguirò mai nessuno
> tracciato su di una mappa!! 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 13/feb/2016, at 19:27, Dario Zontini Gmail 

> dario.zontini@

>  wrote:
>> 
>> si, conosco lo scialpinismo, anche se ultimanente gli sci sono appesi al
>> chiodo :-) e concordo con te che l'itinerario è molto variabile e non è
>> neanche facile riportarlo in una traccia su OSM. Ma come dicevo io lo
>> considero come percorso suggerito. Poi è la persona che deve usare la
>> testa e non solo il gps.
>> 
>> Io mi riferisco a percorsi classici come S. Barbara - monte Stivo (che
>> molti trentini consocono), un tracciato così io mi sento di mapparlo
>> tranquillamente, per dare un'idea da che parte si sale e scende. Percorsi
>> poco frequentati e magari fatti solo dal mio gruppo di amici una volta,
>> sarei dell'idea di non mapparli.
>> 
>> In Austria ci sono parecchi itinerari, manon so dire a che tipologie si
>> riferiscono
>> 
>> Il 13/02/2016 18:48, Michele Malfatti ha scritto:
>>> Non so se fai scialpinismo ma in base alle condizioni della neve scegli
>>> da dove salire!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 13/feb/2016, at 18:08, Andrea Lattmann 

> andrea.guglielmo@

>  wrote:
>>> 
> Io faccio scialpinismo ho le tracce ma >mai pubblicate. Ho amici guide
> alpine e istruttori che mi hanno >sconsigliato di farlo.
 ...e magari non ti hanno spiegato il perché non pubblicarle...
 
 
> 
> Posso capire che se uno le pubblica, loro hanno meno clienti, ma se uno
> non è della zona farebbe comunque bene a rivolgersi a loro sempre e
> comunque. Solo che tanti non lo capiscono... Se è per la pericolosità, non
> dovremmo mappare più nulla. C'è chi traccia sentieri con l'obbligo dell' 
> attrezzatura...non lo dovrebbero più fare? 
> 
 Comunque li capisco, sopratutto se poi devono andare a soccorrere
 qualcuno che va a fare scialpinismo improvvisando.
 
 
 Andrea Lattmann
 
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>>> 

> Talk-it@

>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> Dario Zontini
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast
>> antivirus.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
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> 
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

..premetto sono di rovereto
...lo stivo...saliamo dalla dorsale appena usciti dal bosco...diretti da
dietro la malga Stivo...seguiamo il 608...o tagliamo su dritti dalla base
della telefericasolo una domandina sai perchè si fa da tutte...fino
al'uscita del bosco si è obbligati ma poi più nulla a mio giudizio che possa
essere obbligato e segnata...in molte giornate è un vero campo di
battaglia..ok...tu lo mappi...passo io e faccio una cosa diversa e ritengo
che quello che tu hai segnato sia errato quindi lo sposto...passa un altro e
idem...facciamo la guerra delle tracce...nulla è obbligatio in
scialpinismoi sentieri sono evidenti e quelli si vedono...la via di
salita con le pelli non è visibilequesto è il mio pensiero



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Scialpinismo-su-OSM-tp5867582p5867660.html
Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-us] Law clinic

2016-02-13 Per discussione Ian Dees

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Steve Coast  wrote:

> ...


Hi Steve,

OpenStreetMap US did speak with a law clinic this past week. For now, we
are acting as the point of contact and have been (and will continue to be)
in contact with the Licensing Working Group and OSMF. As we understand more
how this process works we'll be sure to get feedback from as much of the
community as we can. My hope is that this is a first step in a long and
helpful relationship between the OpenStreetMap community and a wider array
of law professionals.

-Ian
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Law clinic

2016-02-13 Per discussione Ian Dees

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Steve Coast  wrote:

> ...


Hi Steve,

OpenStreetMap US did speak with a law clinic this past week. For now, we
are acting as the point of contact and have been (and will continue to be)
in contact with the Licensing Working Group and OSMF. As we understand more
how this process works we'll be sure to get feedback from as much of the
community as we can. My hope is that this is a first step in a long and
helpful relationship between the OpenStreetMap community and a wider array
of law professionals.

-Ian
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] amenity=townhall et place=village à séparer ?

Il est sur la liste en CC.

Le 14 février 2016 à 00:00, Christian Rogel <
christian.ro...@club-internet.fr> a écrit :

>
> > Le 13 févr. 2016 à 13:53, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
> >
> > Sinon je ne vois pas trop le rapport avec "social_facility=outreach"
> (sensibilisation) qui me semble plus adapté à des organismes comme les
> maisons de la jeunesse, les centres de planning familial, les organismes
> d'insertion sociale, ou certaines assos à caractère social comme les Restos
> du Coeur, les centres d'accueil de réfugiés, les centres du SAMU social.
> > Je verrais plutôt "social_facility=welfare" pour les organismes de
> sécurité sociale qui s'occupent des prestations sociales de base.
>
> Je ne vois pas bien l’ objection sur le sens. « Outreach » n’a pas que le
> sens étroit de sensibilisation, il concerne tout type d’action (sociale,
> religieuse) qui a pour but d’aller au plus près de la cible. Toutes les
> permanences à but social pourrait aller dans l’attribut (permanences
> locales, comme accueil au siège de la CAF).
>  Mais, je ne connaissais pas « welfare ». Cela semble convenir pour toute
> la SS, dont la CAF est une composante et tous les organismes similaires.
> Cependant, il faut voir si un « social_facility:for » est applicable.
>
> Mais, comme je l’ai dit sur la liste, en août dernier, « outreach » me
> semble convenir pour les Maison départementales des personnes handicapées.
>
> Christian R.
>
>
> Note : Cet échange n’est pas sur la liste. Est-ce volontaire ?
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Re: [Talk-us] Law clinic