Re: Old Smiley Quoting Bug still present in 3.51.10
Hoi Ian If the smiley is the last item on a line and you select that line for quoting, it depends on what you select as to whether it will selectively quote or not. If you drag the cursor so that the smiley at the end of the line is just selected, it will not quote. If you select the line with the smiley at the end and the very start of the following line (not selecting anything on that line itself), it will not quote. If you select the line with the smiley at the end, plus the following blank line and the very start of the the next line, the smiley will quote. It appears that for the smiley to quote, it must have printable white space after it. It does not quote if there is nothing after it, or if there is just a carriage return and line feed only after it. Can anyone confirm :( Absolutely. In addition, as I wrote in my note attached to the BT, any smiley on the last line will not be quoted unless another line/paragraph below the one with the smiley/s is selected. But only if the last characters represent a smiley, it seems. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.10 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Old Smiley Quoting Bug still present in 3.51.10
Hoi Mary Natasha, if you have the time, could you put a further note to that effect at http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=3889 Already done. :realtardis: -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.10 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Old Smiley Quoting Bug still present in 3.51.10
Hoi Mary I guess we just have to wait for the next beta release, to see if it really is fixed. I've just checked the daily build link: this still retrieves 3.51.9 - so no help there. The change log (whichcanalsobefoundat http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/daily.txt ) lists this bug as having been fixed on 22.07.2005. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.10 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: PM Re: Old Smiley Quoting Bug still present in 3.51.10
Hoi Mary Well, I guess I have a messed-up filter. Wasn't a PM. And I'm getting a little tired at the end of a long day, so I failed to double-check my To field before sending. Happens to us all at one time or another. Apologies to Natasha and to the list. None necessary to me, and I'm sure this list has indulged far worse slips than this in the past. Several very long rants from me come to mind. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.10 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
IMAP counters and common folders
Hi everyone Anyone else experiencing the following? 1. Setup a Read Messages filter for an IMAP Inbox to send each message to a common folder when it's marked read. 2. Read a message in the IMAP Inbox. 3. On exiting the following are true: a. The message is moved to the appropriate common folder - good. b. No message in the common folder is marked as unread. Nor does any message appear - in terms of its color group - as though it's marked unread - good. c. The folder list count of unread messages for the common folder increments by 1 - bad. d. If there were no unread messages previously in the common folder, the folder's appearance in the folder list changes as though it contained an unread message - bad. Selecting the common folder resets both counter and color-group-related appearance of the folder in the folder list to reflect the real situation - ie, no unread messages in the common folder. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.10 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Address Book macros not working in QTs
Hoi Roelof No. However, first I tried your macro: %ABFromFName and that didn't work, I checked the help and saw that it should be %ABFromFirstName. What really bothers me is that you think your macro was working in 3.51.8. Is it possible that you've got two QT's, one with the proper syntax and one that's failing? So I do! :thankyou: And having dealt with that problem exposed my other problem, which is that I had acquired a duplicate AB entry. Now deleted and all's well with my remaining QTs. Thanks for testing! And apologies for bringing a wetware error to the list. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.9 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Address Book macros not working in QTs
Hoi All I have a QT containing ABFromFName and a couple of other AB macros. A couple of versions ago, these started appearing as blanks. Then in 3.51.8 this was fixed. Now I'm back to being served blanks by my AB macros. Anyone else confirm? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.9 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hoi Paul When a filter attempts to act on a nonexistent folder, let it create the folder. This functionality is already available. In the folder dialog of the Copy/Move filter action, there's a checkbox named Automatically create if necessary. HTH. True. However this is intended as a convenience function for filter creation and is selective. I see what you mean. Just realised that this only creates the folder first time round. If the folder is subsequently deleted, it will not be recreated by the filter. Could be a relatively straightforward amendment to filter functionality to preserve the create if necessary option, however - until more comprehensive functionality to check the links between filters and folders can be developed. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.9 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hoi Dwight I think one should be able to do lots of searching in filters. One should also be able to make an alphabetical list, or better have the filters in alpha order without changing the order of the actual searches. Have added wish. Please support. Thanks in advance. https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4969 supported. Thanks lots for putting this up. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.8 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hoi Vili When a filter attempts to act on a nonexistent folder, let it create the folder. This functionality is already available. In the folder dialog of the Copy/Move filter action, there's a checkbox named Automatically create if necessary. HTH. You are absolutely right. I overlooked it. :))) Lucky for me I'd just been using it earlier today. Otherwise it would have been in the bit bucket with the rest. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.8 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hi everyone Please check and confirm it: 0. Make a new folder (X) in the POP account. 1. Make a new filter that copies the outgoing mails to this new X folder. 2. Delete X folder. 3. If you check the filter, the copy is directed to the Sent mail folder now. Result: doubled mails in the Sent mail folder. Confirmed, with the following additional information. I can't now reproduce the effect of TB changing the target folder to the next up in the list. It now works as originally expected and moves mail to the default folder. My guess is that I didn't create the filter correctly last time I tried this. Apologies for any ensuing confusion. The only way I've found to avoid TB sending filtered messages to the default folder is to check the Automatically create if necessary box in the Copy/Move dialog when setting up the filter. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.6 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.51.6 is now available
Hi 9Val The Bat! 3.51.6 is now available Up and running just fine. Still pauses during disconnect from my IMAP account, but perhaps this is Fastmail rather than TB. Have produced several 4K+ messages today with so far no dropped characters. Looking very nice so far. Many thanks to you and the team. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.6 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hoi Paul When a filter attempts to act on a nonexistent folder, let it create the folder. This functionality is already available. In the folder dialog of the Copy/Move filter action, there's a checkbox named Automatically create if necessary. HTH. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.8 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hoi Dwight I think one should be able to do lots of searching in filters. One should also be able to make an alphabetical list, or better have the filters in alpha order without changing the order of the actual searches. Excellent idea! Is there a BT Wish for this? If so, I'll happily support. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.8 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.51.5 is now available
Hi 9Val The Bat! 3.51.5 is now available Up and running with so far no problems. Possibly even slightly faster than .4? To date, no recurrence of the dropped character issue in MicroEd - even in several lengthy messages. I'll work it hard for a day or so before posting a confirmation of resolution to http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904. Thanks to the team for all your excellent work! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.5 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.5 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Bug, NFS
Hi Vili Please check and confirm it: 0. Make a new folder (X) in the POP account. 1. Make a new filter that copies the outgoing mails to this new X folder. 2. Delete X folder. 3. If you check the filter, the copy is directed to the Sent mail folder now. Result: doubled mails in the Sent mail folder. Confirmed, with the following additional information. After the folder is deleted, the filter will move messages to whichever folder appeared immediately before it in the folder list. I tried this with a folder sitting directly under my Inbox (not a sub-folder, but the next folder down in the list) and after deletion the Inbox became the target. Seems to me that perhaps an array of pointers isn't being updated correctly. If you raise a BT report, I'll be happy to support. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.5 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.5 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Hi Liz NVP We are taking course to not-fixed-date releases, which means no NVP deadlines and no rush. Only approved by your responses versions will be NVP named releases. Unfortunately a few of us did spot that on occasions the rather buggy betas we thought we were testing were also placed as the official download option on the site. That statement therefore doesnt strike me as wholey true. I think this was posted as a direct response to those complaints. RL acknowledging that they've been hasty in the past and would like to change things for the better. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Hi Vladimir Sorry, but link to daily build is slightly different. Changelog is stored here: www.ritlabs.com/download/the_bat/beta/daily.txt And build is stored here: www.ritlabs.com/download/the_bat/beta/daily.rar Many thanks for correcting my links. This is extremely useful information. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51.4 - Strange display behaviour in Sorting Office
Hi Ian I have noticed some strange behaviour when entering conditions that exceed the available space in the Sorting Office. When you add a condition it appears at the bottom, but try and change anything and it goes through a weird redisplay with the condition being edited off the bottom with a gap above it. Confirmed. Coincidentally, I just suffered a similar fate myself - only in my case the gap occasionally disappears. The filter still seems to work just fine, though. How about you? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Jay Natasha, believe it or not, this is a very serious topic for me. I understand that very clearly. Likewise for me. I do not want to raise any temperatures. And you believe the following to be non-inflamatory? This announcement goes beyond carelessness and irresponsibility. I hesitate to use terms like criminal neglect, but I believe a case could be made in such a direction. I think there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. So do I, and I believe RL is addressing that problem. I believe, in fact, that RL is addressing a number of serious issues with the current beta cycle. TB seems to have come to a point in its development cycle when it has outgrown its original code and needs to be reworked in some areas. RL have given very clear statements (one of which I've already quoted) explaining to the beta testers what those issues are and how long we can expect to wait before seeing significant results. RL's behaviour has, IMO, been entirely reasonable in this situation. I had no idea that instead of this ostensible objective RL was going to use me as an alpha tester for a feature or enhancement that would distort the content of messages that I transmit. And, if I recall correctly, you also had no idea that you were testing a new feature that was going to change the content of your messages. Neither do I now believe I am doing so. I believe that in repairing one bug another has been inadvertently added to TB. I believe this is being worked on by RL with all due care and speed, and with the assistance of the beta testers. According to Max, the purpose of that MSI was to fix existing issues in 3.5.xx - which, it seems, did not include the loss of content in messages that you discovered in 3.51. The repair and the new issue both relate to character set functionality of TB. This point, I suggest, is more than a little significant - both in isolating the problem and (hopefully) in reassuring you that RL isn't bent on a course of introducing new features. In a program this complex, the inadvertent introduction of a new bug is not entirely surprising. Uncomfortable for us as users? yes. Irresponsible and criminally negligent? Absolutely not. To draw a parallel. Say you're in your car and looking for a parking space. You find one, but it looks like it might be a tight squeeze. What the hey, you say to yourself. I's been parkin' cars f'r years. This l'l ol' tiny space don't frit me none. So you go ahead and put the car in reverse, and into the space you go. But wait! What's this? Can it be that you've parked perfectly parallel, but two metres from the kerb? Oh, darn it! And you try again. This is a really small space, though, so even with the new power steering it's gonna be a toughy, but you're absolutely sure that - eventually - you'll get that car inside that little gap. Maybe a couple of times the nose will be sticking out into the street. Maybe once or twice the tail will block oncoming traffic. Maybe a few of your fellow motorists will suffer some slight inconvenience/enjoy a brief moment of hilarity - depending on the pressure of their engagements and/or their general personalities and how life's treating them this fine day - but in the end you'll achieve your goal. And software engineering can sometimes be exactly like this. Also, please read what Max said again. He was giving us an MSI that was intended to fix one last problem in 3.5.xx before putting this release up for download. With an introduction like that - and with the BayesIt problem still unresolved - who would imagine that we would be embarking on an entirely new series of beta (pardon, me, alpha) testing of a very risky nature? Where are these new features you believe are in alpha? I see only a bug fix which has in some regard gone awry. Random problem that it is, this makes it very difficult both to trap an to repair. Frankly, I think we'd both be doing the world a favour by dealing with that instead of engaging in this tiresome round of blamestorming. RL and the beta testers are doing their best. No-one wants a poor product. We'll all be delighted when this issue is resolved and all our orphan characters can come home. In the interim, I'm aware that some testers who've experienced the problem have - entirely reasonably - preferred to regress to earlier versions. Perhaps this is an option for you? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904
Hi Mary My monitor is not on a USB connection. It is a ViewSonic 17 in., connected to a custom-built computer: Pentium 4, 120 GB HD, 512 MB RAM. System properties says further, Pentium (R) 4 CPU253GHz 255GHz 512 MB of RAM. Doesn't seem as though we have much in common wrt hardware: Dell 1704FPT (Digital) monitor (re-badged Samsung) attached to a Dell Precision WorkStation 370 with a 3.8GHz processor, 4GB (4x1GB SDRAM modules) and 2 Maxtor 7Y250M0 Serial-ATA/150 disks. Actually, I am not able to maintain my non-default color scheme. So, I gave up. It runs Windows Classic (Default blue, with large fonts). If I change it, Windows puts it back on the next reboot. How annoying of Windows. :( But the large fonts stick? Weird. Also, I suspect, a little OT. Might be able to assist PM if you'd like to get this fixed. Please keep asking the questions. At the other end of the scale, I'm now wondering whether two single-byte characters can look like one single Unicode character - ie, if that sequence of bytes can represent more than one sequence of characters, depending on the character set being used. I notice, for example, that often spaces are the victims of this bug - although admittedly spaces are a very common character and so statistically are more likely to be victims - and wonder whether the space can combine - either mathematically or by concatenation - to form something which then is undisplayable and so is cut from the editor view. I have no idea whether that all was even remotely clear. Looked OK to me, but I think an illustrative example or so might be in order here. Eg 1: Character addition Space (1-byte 0x20) added to M (1-byte 0x4D) would produce a 2-byte 0x006D. Eg 2: Character concatenation Space (1-byte 0x20) concatenated with M (1-byte 0x4D) would produce a 2-byte 0x204D. If we can find common ground between the characters that disappear, perhaps that will give more clues. It's also possible that it's a buffering problem - this thought stemming from the fact that longer messages seem more susceptible to the bug. I can't help believe the fault is somewhere in there, since this behavior came on with the testing of the new charsets. Before 3.51.3 I had no problems of this kind at all. It certainly is recent. I'm out of other ideas for now. Perhaps if I get some sleep I'll dream up some more. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Jay I suppose it might be inflammatory to someone who works for RL; although I see no sign that RL employees are inflamed They show remarkable forebearance in the face of such amusingly OTT accusations. I don't see why those words should inflame anyone who does not work for RL. I admit to being somewhat inflamed - although only in the same way as I would be inflamed by a parent insisting on allowing a screaming toddler to run around a café at which I'm trying to have a pleasant cup of coffee. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that RL is now trying to implement a new degree of unicode support and that RL knew - or should have known - in advance that users could lose characters in consequence of the partial implementation of unicode in the Microed. I really must stress yet again that software developers are generally not in the habit of releasing code they know to be buggy - OK, people. Here's the latest. We know there are x, y and z bugs, but we really couldn't be bothered to fix 'em is a scenario I've only ever seen once... immediately before I fired the programmer in question. It doesn't reflect well on them and it doesn't give them a warm fuzzy glow of satisfaction. I have absolutely no doubt that the release of this bug was entirely unforeseen - other than the common-sense rule we all apply when loading a new beta, being that any area which has recently received attention (as noted in the build documentation) is not the same as it was in the previous build and therefore may behave differently. This is happening so randomly that it's entirely possible they could test for days and never encounter the issue. In this regard, they very definitely need the help of a good beta test team with a variety of hardware and software configurations, and varied ideoms in terms of their TB usage. I'd take you much more seriously as a member of that team (especially since you say this bug is of paramount importance to you) if you would be so kind as to add a detailed and constructive note to http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904 providing your config and the circumstances in which you have encountered the problem. Good solid factual evidence provided by us will greatly assist RL in their quest to corner this little bug and exterminate it. Whining will not. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: RFC Comments header can't be set
Hi Mary The Bug Report page (4904) asks for Feedback, but I don't know what is wanted in the way of Feedback there. :woe: http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904 What they seem to be looking for - this from a conversation with Alexander Leschinsky - is any observations that might help them narrow down the problem: any details of setup, environment, context or any other common ground between messages where problems occur. It occurs to me, for example, after reading your recent messages that we're both using flat panel monitors - although admittedly mine's 12,000 miles away. :) Now you may think this is a bizarre suggestion for the source of the problem, but the reason I leave mine switched on even though I'm not even in the same country is that turning it off interferes not only with Windows, but with my non-Windows backup software. Seems its USB connection and drivers have more hooks into the architecture than I'd anticipated. I know this isn't true of all monitors - I have another couple of machines I work with where the screens are permanently turned off. The one I have trouble with is a Dell, which in turn is a re-badged Samsung. Additionally, we both have set up Windows to use an undefault color scheme. Shouldn't be a problem, I know, but it's one more piece of common ground. Are you using a USB keyboard, by any chance? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.4 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Jay DISCLAIMER I'm not intending to speak here for anyone else on the list, the community as a whole, any company with which I may be directly or indirectly associated or any other collection or organisation of people. These are just my opinions, and a couple of quotes where they seemed relevant. I don't believe these have been taken out of context, but if you feel I've misquoted you and/or quoted them in a misleading or otherwise inappropriate manner, please feel free to send down the fire-breathing trout of vengeance to toast me in the pit of eternal torment. /DISCLAIMER I don't know about others, but when 3.51 rolled up I thought that RL was just polishing a release to replace the faulty one on their Website - the one that somehow eliminated BayesIt. Although Max's mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] clearly states that: It fixes charset issues of the latest 3.5.xx I had no idea that instead of this ostensible objective RL was going to use me as an alpha tester for a feature or enhancement that would distort the content of messages that I transmit. We're talking about http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904? I'd say this falls under the (admittedly broad) auspices of changes specified by Max in the above-referenced. Yes, I am a voluntary beta tester, and I know it is risky. I also know that RL cannot be expected to define precisely each and every possible risk. But does that mean that RL should not give me any warning regarding changes in direction of testing and harmful events that are likely to occur? I think not. See above. And, as a beta tester, am I also obliged to test new features that are only at an alpha level of development? Again, I think not. ICAM. You're free to choose whichever level of TB suits your current needs. To help you make this decision, RL posts, on a daily basis, all their fixes at http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/daily.txt and in addition posts the change log along with the available beta downloads at http://www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/index.php?login=yes. So I have a fundamental concern here. I believe that the July 6 announcement of 3.51 on this forum (see below) was entirely misleading. Based on? This announcement goes beyond carelessness and irresponsibility. I hesitate to use terms like criminal neglect, but I believe a case could be made in such a direction. I'd be wary of the ethical standing of any lawyer who would tell you so. The software is clearly labelled as not ready for public consumption and, as such, not guaranteed as absolutely stable. We all use the software on that basis and with full awareness of those risks. Many times and many people have asked RL for a roadmap. We never seem to get that roadmap - at least not in advance of any journey. I draw your attention to 9Val's mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] in which, among other things, he clearly informed us of the following: We are taking course to not-fixed-date releases, which means no deadlines and no rush. Only approved by your responses versions will be named releases. Currently main directions of TB! development are: - IMAP - Unicode support - HTML editor improvements - Customization - Bug-fixes As for whether we, as beta testers, are even entitled to advance notice of RL's internal business priorities, I firmly believe that we're not. Of course, we need to know what we're testing when it's released to us, and this information is, as I've already mentioned, freely available at the following locations: http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/daily.txt http://www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/index.php?login=yes. Many times and many people have asked RL to distinguish between alpha testing and beta testing, in particular to do more and better in-house testing before distributing a so-called beta release to this community. How would one quantify more and better in this context. I'm aware that testing occurs; I'm unaware of the specific methodology. Perhaps you have particular recommendations? Many times and many people have complained about broken promises in respect to development of features and direction of testing. It's true that many people have complained. It's also true that RL are working on three major areas of concern: IMAP, Unicode and the UI - all of which are very complex. These won't be fixed in a day, but the direction seems clear enough. Now, don't get me wrong: http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904 is a very annoying bug. Considering I'm the one who raised it, I'd be the last to claim otherwise. Occurrences are random, however, and clearly difficult to track down. The more we can help RL out on this one, the more sooner our typed characters will stop abandonning us in favour of a life in some unknown plain of existence. As far as miscommunication is concerned, I'm gratified to
Re: The Bat! 3.51.3 is now available
Hi Edvinas 2) When default editor is MicroEd and reply is made to utf-8 message no quotes are inserted, just an empty window appears. I think that this behaviour is caused by the same bug which causes utf-8 text to dissapear when switching between MicroEd and windows style plain text editor. Bug report: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4907 Confirmed, and very nasty it is, too. Have added a supporting note. At least the character set remains UTF-8. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51.3 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51.3 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Jay Natasha, since you were the first one to report this, why don't you post something on BT. I will then go and anoint your words. :-) Have posted at the following URL: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4904. All support welcomed. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Vili What is the exact byte size of your thebat.exe file? Mine is 10,960,184 bytes. Same here. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Mary Note added. Thanks a mil for doing this! :thankyou: And :thankyou: in return for your note! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Vili Why did you write 3.51.1 as the version no? Mine shows only 3.51... oops! My mistake. Didn't wait to hear the .1 at the end. Looking back at the combo where this is set, though, reveals that .1 and .2 are the only .51 levels listed. My version is actually 3.51.0.0. Anyone know where the Edit option is hiding on the BT page? I'd rather edit the report to show the true level number. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Vili What is set at Options, Character set, when you are writing the mail? I havent installed any additional character sets, so perhaps these were set by default when I installed TB. Arabic(ISO) iso-8859-6 Baltic(ISO) iso-8859-4 Central European (ISO) iso-8859-2 Chinese Simplified(EUC) EUC-CN Chinese Simplified(GB2312) gb2312 Chinese Traditional(Big5) big5 Cyrillic(ISO) iso-8859-5 Cyrillic(KOI8-R) koi8-r Cyrillic(KOI8-U) koi8-u Cyrillic(Windows) windows-1251 Greek(ISO) iso-8859-7 Greek(Windows) windows-1253 Hebrew(ISO-Visual) iso-8859-8 IBM EBCDIC(Turkish Latin-5) CP1026 Japanese(EUC) euc-jp Japanese(JIS) iso-2022-jp Latin 3(ISO) iso-8859-3 Latin 9(ISO) iso-8859-15 Thai(Windows) windows-874 Turkish(Windows) windows-1254 Unicode(UTF-8) utf-8 Western European(ISO) iso-8859-1 -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Mary I don't think we have an Edit function, after we've submitted a BT note. I think you could say this by Add, in the supporting notes function, though. I was hoping to avoid this (too much like talking to myself :) ) but what the hey. Note added. I've never seen my version described as 3.51.0.0; only as 3.5. Where did you get those .'s and 0's ? :huh: Bought 'em secondhand from a dodgy bloke down the market. :) SCNR Alternatively: check out the View tab of the properties for the program. Lots of other interesting stuff there, too. Just curious. ;) Always a good quality. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Edvinas Vili was not asking what character sets are installed. His question was what character set was used while you were composing that message which had characters dropped. Well spotted. He sure was. Apologies for that. I'm using Latin 9(ISO) iso-8859-15. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Alexander Hllo Ntasha V Parce evryone ele, on 14-Ju-2005 at 05:44 you (Nataha V Peace) wrte: Anone lse expeiening tis? o, I neer hd ay poblm ith it. SCNR! :rofl2: Fantastic! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
MicroEd dropping random characters
Hi Everyone! Anyone else experiencing this? Since upgrading to 3.51 Pro... I write part of an email, save it and come back to it in the Outbox later, only to find some random characters have disappeared. Can be from anywhere: beginning, middle or end of a word or sometimes it can span between two words. At first, I thought my typing skills were evaporating, but then I started to notice the same problem turning up in quoted parts of my replies. Tried with and without my reply templates, but with no difference. Apologies for not having more detail re cause/effect: seems entirely random to me. Could be the work happening re unicode, etc? Or the general editor work we were discussing a few weeks ago? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.31 vs 3.5.30
Hi Alexander NVP To achieve best results - OK, any results at all - you'll need all the NVP following macros. How do you insert new macros into TB! I'd say that Natasha meant Quick Templates. Oops! I did indeed. Thanks for spotting that one. Also, a minor modification to one of the QTs. =[ Begin QuoteMIDOfQuotedMessage ]= %REM='Returns the MID of the message from which text is quoted in a format suitable for quoting in the body of a message' mid:%SETPATTREGEXP=;(.*)%REGEXPMATCH=%OMSGID%- =[ End QuoteMIDOfQuotedMessage ]= Enjoy! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.31 vs 3.5.30
Hi Everyone! A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I wrote something along the lines of... anyone have a handy macro to quote one message but reply to the initiator of the thread to which it belongs? Well, no-one did, and I said I might have a bash at creating one. Now I find myself totally unable to sleep after a very long and very entertaining work day, and what should spring to mind but that exact rash promise. So here, for your edification and entertainment, is my little system for doing just this. I've tested it using 3.51 Pro on XP on list and non-list messages, and it seems to work just fine. To achieve best results - OK, any results at all - you'll need all the following macros. =[ Begin PlainThreadTopMID ]= %REM='Returns the MID of the first message in the thread in a format suitable for entry in a header field' %REM='Created on 2005-07-09' %- %SETPATTREGEXP='(?is)(.*?)'%- %REGEXPBLINDMATCH='%oheader(References)'%- %SUBPATT='1'%- %- =[ End PlainThreadTopMID ]= =[ Begin QuoteMIDOfQuotedMessage ]= %REM='Returns the MID of the message from which text is quoted in a format suitable for quoting in the body of a message' mid:%SETPATTREGEXP=;(.*)%REGEXPMATCH=%OMSGID%- =[ End QuoteMIDOfQuotedMessage ]= =[ Begin QuoteThreadTopMID ]= %REM='Returns the MID of the first message in the thread in a format suitable for quoting in the body of a message' mid:%- %SETPATTREGEXP='(?is)(.*?)'%- %REGEXPBLINDMATCH='%oheader(References)'%- %SUBPATT='1'%- %- =[ End QuoteThreadTopMID ]= =[ Begin ReplyToThreadTop ]= %REM='Replies to the first message in a thread quoting text from another message in the thread and threading to the top of the thread' %SETHEADER(In-Reply-To,%QInclude(PlainThreadTopMID))%- %SETHEADER(References,%QInclude(PlainThreadTopMID))%- In reply to the thread beginning with %- %QInclude(QuoteThreadTopMID) %- quoting text from %- %QInclude(QuoteMIDOfQuotedMessage)%- =[ End ReplyToThreadTop ]= -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.51 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.51 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: IMAP problems
Hi Tony Delete a few messages from an IMAP folder then move to another IMAP folder and back again and then browse deleted messages to see if they actually are deleted. They're not. Purge+Compress removes them if selected from the Folder menu, but they're not removed automatically on switching to another IMAP folder. It's as though alternative deletion is used in addition to normal deletion when a normal delete is performed - should be instead of. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.36 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Webmail, that threads correctly
Hi Avi if you are some kind of switch-hitter Merely a humble button-pusher. don't ask, don't tell. If you don't want to tell, I certainly wouldn't dream of imposing on your privacy by asking. ;) A fish by any other name would smell as neat. Now that's really perverted. :-) A trout, a grill, a fine glass of dry white. Perverted?? :) However, delightful (and correctly-threaded) as this thread is, I do detect the ripples of another approaching trout, and two in one week is too rich even for my blood. :) CCed to TBOT for reasons of safety, and with special apologies to the mods and their trout. Obviously I wouldn't really eat a moderate trout. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.36 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Webmail, that threads correctly
Hi Avi As you see, I am using gmail now, so I cannot read my emails, neither :))) Still you're sending email nicely. And, thank God, you didn't include a kissy in there, which would not appear in Gmail anyway - the Lord be praised - as even the word alone causes me to shudder each time I see it... or a girlcheer or a bearhug. Egad! :-) :kissy: :girlcheer: :bearhug: :) SCNR -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.36 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Webmail, that threads correctly
Hi Avi :k***y: :g*rlch**r: :b**rh*g: :) SCNR 'Zounds, did it suddenly get cold in here? Here's an interesting new bug. Remember that one where smileys don't get quoted from the RTV? Well, it seems that in my version of TB they're quoting all by themselves! Sorry, Avi - irresistible as it may have been, you're absolutely right: I don't want to be trouted for swearing on-list. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.36 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Webmail, that threads correctly
Hi Avi I don't think you have anything to worry about, Natasha... as long as you avoid quoting from the NT (too big a concentration of forbidden words in one place). You might also want to avoid Shakespeare So let me get this straight: to avoid the no-trout bug in TB, I need to do the following? :kissy: :***-thy-neighbour-as-thyself: :bearhug: :lead-me-not-into-temptation: :girlcheer: :much-ado-about-nothing: maybe that was just a fluke - a flounder, not a trout. A fish by any other name would smell as neat. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.36 Pro on Windows XP Pro 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.36 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
[OT] Re: It worries me...
Hi Francis MS I worries me that it seems that TheBat came to a stage where it is MS difficult to find bugs and hard to fix them. Old and very old bugs are MS still present and any new version which claims to fix some bugs has new MS ones - things which worked before are suddenly broken... FS 't might become difficult to browse through so many code lines... FS In order to repair one bug introduced in 3.5.32, Ritlab came today with FS 3.5.33... with a 500 Kb bigger exe-file!!! thebat.exe is now weighting FS almost 12 Mb. Compare with a three month old version... Not wishing to put words into any RL (or any other) keyboards here. This is just a general observation. Many new features are being added at the moment. Often at this stage in a program's development cycle things can get a little complicated. But those growing pains tend to be followed by good consolidation and a stronger, sleeker program at the end of the process. It's a little like a bird emerging from its egg for the first time. When it was an egg, all it had to concern itself with was keeping its yoke together and whether the speckles on its shell were lookin' good today. But then, as it grows, it gets a whole set of new stuff it needs to worry about: What should I do with these enormous feet things?; Won't all this beak business just get in the way?; What if I'm alergic to feathers?. The list, believe me, is endless! And in the end, of course, the beak does get in the way and the cool-lookin' shell gets broken and the feathers don't even work properly at first. And then the bird trips over those enormous feet things and quite possibly falls right out of its comfort zone - I mean nest. Now, what kinda smart design is that? Well, I guess that'd be the kinda smart design where those feet things grow and develop and become strong enough to power that swan across the largest lake it can find and where the feathers turn out to be really snug in winter, cool in summer and even more cool when you get bored with swimming and fancy a spot of flying - not to mention, of course, prettier than a very pretty thing. And the beak? Well, I think the beak speaks for itself. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.33 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.33 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Status bar giving wrong connection type
Hi Manuel My main account is using IMAP over SSL. And yet the status bar says 'Plain' over towards the right. Are you sure that status bar indication is for connection type? I'm nearly sure this area shows Plain or OTFE, so indicates the OTFE use. Correct. Nevertheless, a indication of the connection method would be great. I think Marek mentioned a wish for that some time ago. We thought about a different color or icon for accounts in the tree. A different icon would be nice. Colours might be more problematic, since they're already used by colour groups to indicate read/unread messages. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Blank Menuitem
Hi Mary I did read that, and wished I had taken your approach. However, it was a good review for me to have to deal again with Customise in order to get my previous Customization back--and not unbearably onerous, since I don't use shortcuts and had only removed some icons from the Standard toolbar for functions I rarely want to use. I've changed almost all the shortcuts, and quite a few of my menus have either added or subtracted items. It took me quite a while. :) Thank you very much for the supporting note! Very pleased to support. Marek Mikus put Confirmed to the issue, immediately, as you may have noticed. So I'm hopeful the matter will get further attention from the development team. Here's hoping. Customisation is still a major focus for the team, so I think we're in good hands and things will be back on track soon. And every time we hit a rough spot, we're providing good feedback, which can only help. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT Couth Mary [Re: 3.5.30 MSI]
Hi Avi Depending on one's upbringing, some words will be either rude or blatantly offensive, while a different culture may consider the same words nothing special. My personal opinion, FWIW, is that cultural expectations go far beyond what is or isn't considered appropriate language. Not that I in any way wish to diminish the importance of that factor, just that I believe it's only the most obvious of a network of potential traps in cross-cultural communication. Some cultures, for example, prefer directness over what others would term tact. Then again, for some people, the direct approach can be extremely offensive. To compound this, what may or may not seem tactful, direct, harsh or abrasive may depend upon linguistic structures and stylistic nuances which differ between languages (and even dialects or regional variations), countries, classes, etc. Add this to the burden of communicating outside ones first language and the chances of misinterpreting/being misinterpreted in some way grow considerably. I've seen this cause serious problems even in face-to-face communication: online, with many fewer non-verbal cues (which admitedly are also culturally-dependent) the problem increases yet further. OTOH, cultural diversity is a fantastic opportunity to break the boundaries of our own ideas and explore new avenues of perception and communication. Perhaps sometimes we'll get things wrong. Perhaps, if we're lucky, someone will point this out to us when we do. And thereby we grow. In other words, fairness in moderation is a lost cause :-) Hggdh, courtesy is fine, but I disagree that it is impossible to be fair. ICAM. And, on the whole, the TB lists are among the fairest I know - especially bearing in mind the diversity of participating cultures. I'd say the standardised and non-inflamatory moderation messages go a long way towards this fairness. But a good moderator must be like a judge - either s/he sets aside personal likes and dislikes or s/he must recuse herself/himself. And, even then, should a mistake occur (as is eventually somewhat inevitable), then a moderator must realize that s/he is just a human being. At that time s/he must come down off her/his elevated seat and humbly apologize. An apology at such times actually enhances her/his prestige rather than diminishes it. Agreed, and I've seen some good examples recently where our moderators (and please let me say here that I personally think they do great work!) have done a very good job of explaining their actions and even apologising when they know a trout is deserved, say, more by a thread than by a specific poster. I don't recall seeing any examples of moderation being conducted on the basis of personal prejudice. (But then, I would say that, not having been 'not singled out'. :) ) But, let's move on to bias. Every moderator is biased. This is no big deal -- we are *all* biased, one way or another --, see above. The difference is understanding that one is biased, and trying to find out if the inbred/developed bias is acceptable (to one's ethical being). Agreed. So, yes, Marck is biased. So are you. So am I. Yet I do not find Marck's bias selective on whom gets the whip. He is doing what he is tasked to and, as far as I can see, doing it as correctly as possible, even if I do not completely agree with it. And... the fact that I do not agree with it does not bring any demerit to his moderation. there seems to be some contradiction in your argument. I don't see how you can say that you disagree with what someone is doing and then express the opinion that it is being done as correctly as possible. Not wishing to put words in anyone else's keyboard, but I know I've had this experience. I see a moderator step in (or not) and think perhaps I'd have done things differently. This doesn't mean things *should* be/have been done differently; there's just more than one approach, and several may be perfectly valid in any given situation. We all know how diligent the moderators are about calling people to task for top-posting and neglecting the use of a sig delimiter. But when it comes to the area of bad language or swearing, a huge amount of it just gets ignored. Top posting and lack of cutlines are both straightforward issues: binary, one might say. Bad language, I suppose, is not: so many different lines that might be crossed, but only the moderators have the chalk to draw them with. I think they do the best they can under a very complex set of sometimes-conflicting social 'rules'. Perhaps our discussion of this topic will make a difference to prosecution of this policy (or people's opinions on the subject) in the future. Okay, I can live with that. But to call me down for swearing and use of bad language when by no stretch of my imagination at least was
Re: 3.5.31 vs 3.5.30
Hi Mary I don't run any plug-ins, or any anti-spam software whatsoever. And, I don't have the habit of looking in the directory each time I change versions. I'm running anti-spam and anti-virus plug-ins, and until this release had never had a problem. It was quite a surprise when this one disappeared. On the bright side, this could just be the incentive I've been looking for to switch to K9. :) I may now just take a peek there before posting all is well. :) Good plan. I'm obsessive about backing up, so it's easy for me to check my previous image against the current directory and registry entries. I meant it so. Natasha Sharp Eyes, I thought, as soon as I saw your second post in re 3.5.31. :) Back in the 'good' old days, programs used to be like the Roman army: lots of lines of code and subroutines all marching in one direction. So it was easy to see when one line was out of step. Nowadays, programs are more like busy traffic systems, with many independent pieces of code all trying to get where they want to go without killing other bits of code on the way. This is even better than your watermelon story!! :) Oh, no! Now I'm raising the bar and people will expect me to be even funnier next time! :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Blank Menuitem
Hi Mary I got a BT e-mail created 7:14:37 (my time--U.S. Central Daylight time zone) which says the issue has been Assigned. Yay! To Robo. We're in good hands, just as you said! :girlcheer: I got this one, too. And please allow me to join you in the :girlcheer: ! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.31 vs 3.5.30
Hi Mary and all BayesIt functionality is very important, you're right. But who knows what else did break with the new version. BayesIt error was detected a few days later after the release - not after a few hours. I think that Natasha spotted it within a few hours--unfortunately, she put it in a correction, posted to herself, of her earlier post to Maxim saying .31 was running fine. Rather than directly posting the bug to Maxim. Quite so. I wanted to recant my earlier acceptance, and in so doing I made it more difficult than it should have been for Maxim to notice my report. It would have been more sensible to respond directly, quoting my original MID. BTW, anyone have a handy macro to quote one message but reply to the initiator of the thread to which it belongs? (Actually, what I'd like is something similar to the PUT macro, but for MIDs, but I don't think this can be done with QTs.) Sufficient time - that's the expression, that is interpreted in very different ways from all of us. ;) I agree with you that sufficient time should mean at least one day--especially given how the beta testers are scattered across all the time zones of the world. Agreed. You may be sure that if he doesn't, he will hear from, at least, me. I am trying to look out for Maxim's and for RitLab's best interest all the time, wearing both my hats, as customer and as beta tester. :) Nice Mary. I'll stand with you. Yay! :girlcheer: Count me in, too. 9Val is a developer, isn't he? It sems to me he is one. A very good and competent one. He's my hero! I take my hat off to 9Val, Maxim and the entire crew! I've seen a few recent comments worrying about the fact that sometimes fixes to one aspect of TB can 'break' seemingly unrelated aspects. FWIW, my personal opinion is that this isn't surprising. As I think I may have rambled about at other times, the complexity of the Windows APIs (especially since TB supports multiple Windows versions) and various email standards the guys are trying to work with makes development rather complex and (extrapolating from experiences on other projects) perhaps forces them into workarounds which may later prove unstable. Which explains why what 'seems' unrelated isn't always what 'is' unrelated. The team are also working under time and (presumably) budget constraints, which means they perhaps don't always get the choice of what to fix or even how to fix it. So it's only when these instabilities arise that they can go back and repair those parts of the design which are now causing the problems. This is also why some things which may seem 'trivial' at the time are repaired before other, apparently 'more important' items are looked at: those 'trivial' items may actually be prerequisites (direct, apparent or otherwise, to repairs of the larger items. And this is where we, as the beta team, come into the picture: users add that extra level of complexity (as if there weren't already enough :) ) that can almost never be accounted for in the lab for such a complex project, no matter how hard the team may try. We use different features of TB, different mail servers and protocols, and our cultural differences give us different perspectives on what's important to us in an email program. So when Maxim asks, Is 3.5.31 generally better than 3.5.30?, he knows RL think so, but also is aware that the diversity of beta testers makes us a much more demanding jury. He's also signalling to us that we're important to RL as well as acknowledging previous hastiness in uploading files to the public download site. I applaud him for all these reasons. It was just a note, that me didn't really understand the question, nor it's origin. It will help all the developers who post here, and they will perhaps be able to tell us what they want in a little bit more detail, in the future. Agreed. Detail is as valuable in questions as it is in answers. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Blank Menuitem
Hi Mary MB Stuart, would you consider writing an expanding note to my BT entry on MB the blank Specials menu item line? I did add a note about the missing line in Address book and the fact that it is a bit different as it is not fixed by deleting tbuser.def. Thanks--I just now got a monitor note from Bug Track, so then actually went to see the png you also added. Glad you did that! I think what you have written explains things well enough that they will know what the consequences are of not fixing it. :) Okay. I appreciate your saying so. Wasn't sure I had been clear. I certainly found it very clear. I've added a note detailing my own experiments with tbuser.def. Basically, my only solution at the moment (since I don't want to re-key all my customisations) is to remove that item using View|Toolbars|Customise. Which works for me only because I don't use that feature... yet. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.31 vs 3.5.30
Hi Mary BayesIt error was detected a few days later after the release I think that Natasha spotted it within a few hours I wanted to recant my earlier acceptance, and in so doing I made it more difficult than it should have been for Maxim to notice my report. But, at least you did recant! Absolutely. I felt I'd jumped the gun with my original post and wasn't prepared to let it stand uncorrected. So--even though I imposed on our friendship, Natasha, by citing your post--I appreciate immensely the sweet spirit in which you have replied to my comment. Fear not. I didn't interpret it by any means as an imposition. It was no more than the truth, after all. And you also pointed out my work in finding the problem in the first place, which I took rather as a compliment. BTW, anyone have a handy macro to quote one message but reply to the initiator of the thread to which it belongs? I hope you will get a response to this. I would find such a macro handy, also. I'll probably try to create one myself if no-one already has such a thing. When I get the time, that is. [Snipped my assessment of TB's complexity, etc.] Thanks--it makes quite a few things clearer to me. Glad it helped. I find many programmers new to Windows and/or object-oriented programming take a long time to get used to this mode of thinking, so I thought it worth mentioning here. Back in the 'good' old days, programs used to be like the Roman army: lots of lines of code and subroutines all marching in one direction. So it was easy to see when one line was out of step. Nowadays, programs are more like busy traffic systems, with many independent pieces of code all trying to get where they want to go without killing other bits of code on the way. Agreed. Detail is as valuable in questions as it is in answers. Very well put! May I steal that beautifully coined aphorism as a tag line? :) Thank you - and feel free. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.0.31 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.31 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Very Important Question
Hi Maxim MM 1. What are the disadvantages of Windows Editor comparing to MicroEd, MM and what features of MicroEd that you are really using, you are missing in MM Windows Editor? I've never really used Windows Editor, but I just gave it a whirl to refresh my memory about why not. Here's what I missed, and what I love about MicroEd. 1. Free caret, smart tabbing and intuitive WYSIWYG editing. I write very many messages containing tabular information, which these features of MicroEd make as easy as drawing the table on paper. 2. Smart indenting. I also write very many messages containing nested lists. (Rather like this one. :) ) Again, MicroEd really helps me out here. OK, so if I want to ask for the moon, I'd like smart indenting to recognise that I'm writing a numbered/bulleted list and indent using hanging paragraphs. But then if you gave me that I'd only whinge until you also provided autonumbering/autobulleting for lists, and maybe even a feature that could underline (using the character of my choice, of course :) ) as I type. :) I fully recognise, BTW, that it may only be me who uses MicroEd instead of Word most of the time. :) 3. Nice quote handling. Now here one *can* place paragraphs right next to one another using a single line break - all by the magic of either changing the initials in the quote or even just the number of ''s. Fantastic! OK, you knew this was coming. Just occasionally it'd be nice to be able to use the indenting and quoting features together for the same paragraph/s. 4. Removal of trailing space from lines/messages. (Can't decide whether not wanting to do this manually is slightly lazy or wanting to do this at all is really sad. :) But I do hear that resounding chorus of, Both!) 5. Speed/responsiveness. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.30 MSI
Hi Maxim Would you please test 3.5.30 MSI: Very nice. Used Custom, selected to install everything and installed over my existing TB folder. Very fast, very smooth installation. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.30 MSI
Hi Natasha Would you please test 3.5.30 MSI: Very nice. Used Custom, selected to install everything and installed over my existing TB folder. Very fast, very smooth installation. Adendum: where's my BayesIt gone? Very many apologies for the misinformation, but I should have mentioned that this no longer appears as an option in the installer. Furthermore, if it's already installed, the installer removes it! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Exporting the contents of virtual folders
Hi Miguel M If you select a just created VF Export options may appear as disabled M (greyed) until you select a message from the message list. Is this what is M happening to you? This does happen, but the issue is broader than this: each time I click away from that VF then return, Export options are disabled until I click a message in the list. (Earlier today I couldn't even get the Export option when clicking on the message in the list, but I can't now reproduce that, so I'll chalk it up to user error.) In addition, if I create a VF via Search, I have to shutdown and restart TB before I can see the VF. M You are right but you don't nee to re-start TB. If you select another folder M tree tab, like Unread or Virtual, and then come back to All, you will see the M newly created VF. Fantastic! M Although I'd say this is a bug because it should not be necessary, the VF M should be displayed when created just like it is when created via New Virtual M Folder. Agreed. I'd count the Export issue as a bug, too, but not one with a tremendously high priority. Many thanks for your help. I'm now much more content about VFs. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Got AV on Submission Forms - Add....
Hi Ivan I on V.3.5.29 (Home Ed.) I Options - Preferences - Submission Forms - Add I got AV: I --- The Bat! --- I Access violation at address 008A91B8 in module 'thebat.exe'. Read of address I . I --- OK--- I Can anybody confirm this? Confirmed on 3.5.30 Professional. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Exporting the contents of virtual folders
Hi Folks Export functionality is disabled for virtual folders. Is this expected behaviour? If so, any supporters for adding this, or is it just me? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Inline PGP signatures break my sig line
Hi Peoples
Using the normal cut line -- and using PGP signature gives the following
results.
PGP/Mime Inline
---
Sign only -- - --
Encrypt only -- --
Encrypt and sign -- --
Anyone confirm?
--
Groetjes
Natasha
The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first -
http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Inline PGP signatures break my sig line
Hi David, Martin and Hendrik NVP Using the normal cut line --and using PGP signature gives the NVP following results... HO Yes, everybody can confirm, as it is normal PGP feature, not a bug. (to HO avoiding some conflicts with begin and end message) Thanks to you all for pointing out my obtuseness on this one. :) All very clear in the cold light of day. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Folder Maintenance
Hi Alexander ASK [ TProgressBar property out of range ] Confirmed for IMAP only. The option causing the problem is Purge old/exceeding messages. Any/all combinations not including this one work just fine. ASK This is in the BT since June 8th, please add your notes to ASK https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4746 Have done. Thanks for the link. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.30: NFS move to folder display broken
Hi MAU Do you think it could be another XP-related thing? Because I can confirm the unwanted behavior every time. I don't think so, but... Working fine here on XP SP2. Sorry. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Exporting the contents of virtual folders
Hi MAU Export functionality is disabled for virtual folders. M Not here. I can export from VFs with no problem. Wonder what the difference might be? Tried creating VF through Search and also via the Folder menu with the same results, both times keeping the default folder settings apart from the search criteria. In addition, if I create a VF via Search, I have to shutdown and restart TB before I can see the VF. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi Avi AY Running the uninstall script of TB is the same as accessing TB - it is like AY being within TB. Not so. To remove an account from within TB, one must first access that account - as in, be able to see the folder list and contained messages. This is not true of the uninstall process. And here is where I believe the confusion lies: there are at least two ways to use the word 'security'. 1. Protection of data content, so that unauthorised persons cannot read the actual information/intellectual property in files or messages. So, for example, if someone takes your computer, as long as the data are encrypted, your plans to take over the world using a flock of genetically-engineered giant watermelons can never be uncovered. And if someone deletes the files which contain the specifics of that plan - like the formula for exploding watermelon seeds - your plan is still secure. Possibly moreso. To put it in non-electronic terms, if you write something in code on a piece of paper, this will protect the meaning but not make the paper invulnerable to fire, water or a child playing with scissors. 2. Protection of physical files. In this case, the intent isn't to protect from prying eyes but to protect from accidental or malicious deletion. As long as no-one knows the location of your secret watermelon patch, who cares how many files they delete? Again with the non-electronic analagy. Want to protect your hand-painted campaign map showing all the heroic exploits of your watermelon army from being defaced or destroyed? Hire a guard or lock the thing in a fire-proof bunker. I can't stress enough here, the sole intent of PGP et al is to protect intellectual property from being read and exploited by others. It's internal to files/messages, and as such can in no way protect them from overwriting, deletion or other changes at the operating system level. Long as no-one can read your ideas, crypto software's happy. HTH. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi Goncalo AM I use a number of apps whose configuration can be passphrase protected. AM These are anti-virus agents, firewalls, mailservers and such. Not one have AM passphrase protected uninstall procedures, the reasoning being that it's an AM administrator's action which is already secured. GF Symantec AV has a password to uninstall This is a fine example of setting a guard to watch over your treasures as I mentioned in option 2 of mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. An AV, firewall or such can't protect your secrets from being revealed to the world, but it sure can stop the world from doing something mean to your computer so that *you* can't enjoy those treasures yourself. OK - I'll stop going on about this now. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi Goncalo GF IMHO, OTFE should be defined on an email account basis, independently. Supported. Is there a wish on BT for this? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Folder Maintenance
Hi Thomas GS Do you run any IMAP accounts? TF No. We have found an angle. Confirmed for IMAP only. The option causing the problem is Purge old/exceeding messages. Any/all combinations not including this one work just fine. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi Maxim GF IMHO, OTFE should be defined on an email account basis, independently. NVPSupported. Is there a wish on BT for this? MM We can't do that, because there are global settings (related to all MM accounts) that we have to protect as well. What about separation of encryption for message base and settings files? That would allow the choice on a per account basis. But would it be too complex to implement? Incidentally - very happy with .30. Thanks for all your excellent work! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi NVP Want to protect your hand-painted campaign map showing all the heroic NVP exploits of your watermelon army from being defaced or destroyed? AM Your giant watermelon story is so intricate, you make me wonder... ;) Then wonder no longer, Allie, for I can now reveal that the watermelons were just the vanguard. I do indeed have at my command vast ranks of fruit and vegetables, poised to swarm across Europe. :) DAC I seem to recall it was an eggplant that ate Chicago. Thank you, Dwight! Such a happy day, to learn that it's not only me who remembers this one! Let's hope, though, not to hear the haunting chords of The Trout That Ate This Thread. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OTFE Woes
Hi Avi AY Yes, Natasha, and very perceptive also. I'm just wondering if you also AY discovered that I have planted genetically engineered squash near Adolf van AY Nerd's computer. Absolutely. I've got my eye on those squash squads. :) AY Seriously, Natasha, your remarks were both illustrative and instructive. AY Thank you for your insight and for sharing it. Always delighted to help, Avi. I'm pleased it's been useful. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.30 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.30 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.06 Again no way to close Windows with TB running
Hi Mary, Charlene and all M I think it is a trifle buggy, even for me, in that when I allowed Windows M to close The Bat! for me, the customary compress all folders on exit did M not take place. M Oh! Just now thought to check--and nor did it delete the contents of the M Trash folder, as it is set to do. I'd lay the blame, if in fact there isn't any, on Windows for this behaviour. :) In fact, I'd go as far as to say TB is behaving well in this situation. During a normal stop, it has time to finish that last drink and saunter out quietly into the sunset. When Windows is threatening to kick it out into the cold dark street and lock the door behind it, though, at least it has the grace not to knock over all the tables in its rush for the exit. Well, usually anyway. C In fact my TB hung several times and not even task manager did appear C pressing ctrl+alt+del, so I decided to press the power button. To my C surprise nothing happened. M there was something in a somewhat long-ago version where even though it M looked as if the CC had finished its task and disconnected from the server, M it was still present as if connected. And again, I'm not convinced this is entirely due to a bug in TB. OK, in some ways it is and in others it isn't. Windows' shutdown process should be able to take care of this kind of bug, but has been poorly-constructed. So instead of closing programs, or at least popping up a dialog to ask the user's permission to close them, it can in some situations just hang and refuse to stop. Sure, TB has perhaps gone into a loop during which it isn't checking for incoming signals from the OS, but Windows has access to all processing levels so should be able to break it out of there if necessary. I think the basic problem is an inability to communicate between some of the underlying pieces of the operating system, which stems in part from the fact that later MS OSs are, in code terms, really a mishmash of bits and pieces scavanged from older, younger and sometimes even non-existent versions of the OS. I'm not convinced all the ramifications of some of the 'design' decisions made during later Windows versions are even fully understood by the people who made those decisions. With all this going on in the background and some truly arcane and contradictory rules in Windows programming, POP/IMAP standards, etc, it's no wonder the poor RIT boys have their hands full. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.28 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.28 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in folder menu
Hi Peter and Miguel P The keyboard shortcut for Maintenance in the Folder menu is lost. M Why don't you assign your preferred shortcut using Customise? N I notice at https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4759 you mention you want N to start your maintenance via PowerPro. Why not use TB's internal scheduler? M That was Peter, not me. Apologies. Too much reliance on QTs over here, and not enough on the brain. :) P I don't want my folder maintenance done at a certain time, but with one click P of a button, automatically selecting Kill dupes, Purge and Compress and P starting. Miguel's suggestion helped me achieve it. Good answer. :) I had a feeling I'd regret asking that question. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.06 Again no way to close Windows with TB running
Hi Mary MB HD--where can I find out what brand it is, this is a custom-built machine MB and I've forgotten what the builders put in, except that it's 120 GB. I MB don't know what my graphics card is, either. I have two nifty little utilities, Everest Home Edition and System Info (SIW), which can give any details you might want about your hardware. They're freely available online, but to save you the trouble I can send you the installs via PM if you'd like. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Keyboard shortcuts in folder menu
Hi MAU PM The keyboard shortcut for Maintenance in the Folder menu is lost. M Why don't you assign your preferred shortcut using Customise? I notice at https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=4759 you mention you want to start your maintenance via PowerPro. Why not use TB's internal scheduler? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Message multiplication using IMAP
Hi Manuel POP quiz! If a weasel goes POP, what manner of beast goes IMAP? A really evil badger, perhaps? And is it just me, or does the fact that IMAP is an anagram of MAPI strike anyone else as horribly sinister? ;) IIRC, someone posted to the list some time ago about messages sent via IMAP being reproduced many times. MB There were many messages that described this odd behavior. I myself wrote MB something about that, but at this time, I could stick it to MB synchronization. Aha! Now that you mention it, me too. :) Just tested all the options, and no synchronisation is the only way I don't get dupes. MB That means, I didn't get any duplicates since I turned synchronization off. MB Before that I synchronized new headers only. But please don't ask me why I MB did that. ;) Wh- Wh- Wh- OK, you win - I won't ask. :) I thought it might improve performance. I was wrong. :) MB This is a good example for your last paragraph and your hint to hiding MB information and Model-View-Controller. IMO there are far to much options - MB synchronization for example with 6 different options is very confusing. I suppose the IMAP protocol offers the options, so perhaps the team feel they ought to include them all. Perhaps if one has a lot more IMAP experience - or with an updated help file - it's a piece of cake. I certainly feel I need to do more work on understanding the intricacies of IMAP to make the most out of betaing TB! using IMAP. Anyway, I spotted this problem with my account in the following circumstances. MB Hmm, I couldn't reproduce it at that time in any way. I was just normal that MB each new and/or non-cached message showed up at least twice times. It pretty much happened every time I replied to anything anywhere - but not when I created a new message from scratch. I tried corresponding with three different accounts with varying permutations of To, Cc and Bcc, with and without subject and/or body, and the same thing happened every time. (Didn't post all those, because I thought my message had already gone on so long it should've received a Big Fat Trout just for waffling, even if it was on topic. :) ) MB This was valid for all folders and especially annoying in tbbeta, when there MB were 60 really new messages and I had to cope with about 120 messages... :/ Nasty. 1. Sent a subscription request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the IMAP account. A single copy of the message appeared in the Sent folder. MB Just to make it a bit shorter. For me this would certainly have been a MB duplicate too. Perhaps I just got lucky. :) A small sample on which to base an opinion, I know, but FWIW here it is anyway. MB Thank you very much for this huge test and your great briefing. I'm sure MB others can confirm in that way. Thank you. I'm very happy to be doing it. In this case, at least, I suspect this of being a glitch in the UI rather than in the send/receive functionality. MB Now it would be interesting if your tests were based on a bat with MB synchronization turned on or off. Most (do I have to say all?!) people I MB know who had problems with message multiplication on IMAP got it sorted out MB with turning synchronization off. I'll join those ranks. :) MB As noticed in my first paragraph - this is too much. A German saying would MB be well meant. Don't know if this fit's for English too. I think it does, yes. And ICAM. MB This is a function-overflow for both, technical and non-technical users. One MB just doesn't know how to use which option and what effect belongs to an MB option. Agreed. I think this is one of those occasions on which it would be nice to have a 'basic' UI with 'advanced' options set apart. MB I needed help to get TB! working with IMAP as far as TB! can. The ones I MB learnt from needed help themselves or just went like trial error. ;) TAE has been my approach to date. I think now, though, it's time for a little research. :) In the next exciting episode, I knit a nice warm hat for the winter using only broken threads. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Message multiplication using IMAP
Hi Everyone IIRC, someone posted to the list some time ago about messages sent via IMAP being reproduced many times. I only wish I could find the MID, but no luck so far. Anyway, I spotted this problem with my account in the following circumstances. 1. Sent a subscription request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the IMAP account. A single copy of the message appeared in the Sent folder. 2. Received a reply from [EMAIL PROTECTED] requesting confirmation of the subscription request. A single copy of the reply appeared in the IMAP account's Inbox. 3. Replied to the confirmation request. 29 copies of the confirmation message appeared in the IMAP account's Sent folder, all with the same MID and AFAICT precisely the same content. 4. Deleted the 29 confirmation messages. A single copy of the confirmation message appeared in the IMAP account's Trash folder. Realised too late that I ought to have checked how many of the confirmation requests I could see in the Inbox. Apologies. So off I went and did a little bit of testing, as follows. 1. Sent a message (let's call it M1) using Message/New from my IMAP account to a POP account. A single copy of M1 appeared in the IMAP account's Sent folder. A single copy of M1 was received by the POP account. 2. Replied to M1 using the POP account - let's call the reply M2. A single copy of M2 appeared in the POP account's Sent folder. A single copy of M2 was received by the IMAP account. 3. Replied to the reply using the IMAP account - and I'll call this one M3. Two copies of M3 appeared in the IMAP account's Sent folder. Both copies of M3 had the same MID - exactly the same content AFAICT. Two copies of M2 now appeared in the Inbox. A single copy of M3 was received by the POP account. 4. Deleted all copies of M3 from the IMAP account's Sent folder. A single copy of M3 appeared in the IMAP account's Trash folder. 5. Deleted all copies of M2 from the IMAP account's Sent folder. A single copy of M2 appeared in the IMAP account's Trash folder. A small sample on which to base an opinion, I know, but FWIW here it is anyway. In this case, at least, I suspect this of being a glitch in the UI rather than in the send/receive functionality. Personally, I'd like to see as much of the Control and Model (in OOP MVC terms) portions of TB! hidden entirely from the user. At the moment, for example, IMAP'S folder management system is very much exposed to the user rather than having the Control code subclassed to respond in an IMAP- or POP-Model-specific way to the same elements in the View (UI). Firstly as an aid to usability and a smooth transition between POP and IMAP for non-technical users, and secondly because I think it would make the code smaller and easier to maintain/upgrade. Just my take, of course, and I know not everyone's necessarily as rabid as am I about this sort of thing. I'm also acutely aware that I'm not at the front line of trying to squeeze POP and IMAP into a single program on a tight deadline with a shedload of other priorities snapping at my heals - IOW, I know I'm being a terrible back seat coder. :) Thanks for reading. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.26 MSI
Hi Mike MM http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/thebat_home_3-5-26.msi M I received a cascading AV while trying to reply to someone. I would M have taken a screen shot, but TB! shut itself down before I could. You could try looking in the Windows Event Viewer (found under Administrative Tools in Control Panel or Start Menu/Programs) where TB!'s AVs should show up. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.26 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.26 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Goncalo GF Do you want a gmail account, Natasha? It has 1 GB mailbox. Fantastic! Yes, please. What do I need to do? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: TBBETA ARCHIVES
Hi Mary MB I could try to make WinRar zip my TBBETA folder up and send it to you PM. MB Well, it's 16.5 MB. Sorry to get your hopes up for nothing. Does your offer still stand once I'm setup for gmail? MB I've never split a file in chunks, and therefore I don't know how to go MB about it, so it's a good thing that you're telling me not to go to the MB trouble. :) And the splitting's the easy part. Co-ordinating the sending and receiving so as not to overflow the mailbox is really tricky. (I know because I tried to do this for a friend of a friend a few weeks ago. Never seen so many bounces! It was like an explosion in a trampoline factory!) MB I'd look that up for you in TBUDL, except that TB!'s search function is so MB slow in v. 3.5.25. Maybe I just don't have enough messages, but my search isn't much slower than it used to be. (Now you understand why I want to test IMAP with all those old list messages. :) ) MB Ah! Brainstorm!! I looked here: TBUDL/TBBETA/TBTECH/TBDEV are now using the Gmane Mail-to-News Gateway Thanks for this. Only problem is that this would come down in news rather than mail format. Nice idea, though. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Michael However - I'm not currently using IMAP. I feel it's my duty, though, to give it a shot. Any kind soul out there care to provide me with a historical message base of list traffic to get me started with some nice large folders? MG You must be joking, aren't you? An interesting philosophical point: am I a fool or a jester? :) Well, maybe some of both. I really do want to test IMAP, though. It'll be fun! :) MG If you really care for some :-) old messages: I like to please - but be MG warned - my TBBETA archive contains 53.076 messages just now. I could zip it MG up and send it to you. Thank you. A very kind offer. If for any reason Mary can't get hers to me, I may take you up on this. MG Second warning: I tried (one upon at early 3.0 times) to put my TB!-archives MG on an IMAP server - since then I'm afraid to test IMAP thoroughly afain. MG First: I ran into server-quota, second: there was a huge amount of traffic, MG third: TB! was _*painfully*_ s l o w in dealing with so many messages in an MG IMAP folder. Now I'm waiting... I'll definitely keep your warnings - and also others' experiences with IMAP - in mind when I'm testing. I'm not expecting the world right now - just would like to help make it happen. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Michael, Mary and all MG If you really care for some :-) old messages: I like to please - but be MG warned - my TBBETA archive contains 53.076 messages just now. I could zip MG it up and send it to you. MB Natasha, you should take Michael Geyer up on this offer. He's the one who MB sent me files oF TBBETA, TBUDL, and TBOT going back to 2002. He is very MB knowledgeable in managing things of information technology, whereas I am an MB untrained amateur and still feel myself to be in most ways a novice here. Thanks to you both. Michael - I'd very much like to take you up on your offer. Once I'm set up, I'll send you my gmail address. MB friendly smile wave smile -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Little bug quoting when using RTV and Smileys
Hi Mary NVP You also using regular expressions in your reply template? Could be this NVP is causing your problem. MB Could you explain how this might play into the mix? I do have regular MB expressions in my reply template. Sometimes the behaviour of complex regexps can be tricky to predict - ie, it's easy for them to be buggy, and remain that way without anyone noticing until specific conditions arise. (Like Cold War sleepers. :) ) Then one can find odd bits being 'randomly' chopped from text, only to find on closer examination that yes, the regexp really _is_ written to do that, but it wasn't clear until it actually happened. (Or is this just me? :) ) I only mentioned them in this context because I recently discovered (with Miguel's help wave) that it's a bug in a regexp in my reply macro which causes selective quoting to fail. MB P.S., OT: I enjoyed so much your comment on my postings to the OT MB tongue-twister/woodchuck thread. I would have replied, but was afraid of MB saying too much, in OT mode. Anyway, belated thanks for that. :) You're very, very welcome. I enjoyed that thread tremendously. I've now joined OT, so could have taken it OT - except everyone seemed to be happy where we were. And the mods (thanks, guys wave) were being very indulgeant towards us that day. :) (Or dare I say chuck-le? :) ) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Mary MB And the point at issue is that I think that RitLabs are getting it (the IMAP MB part of the code) functional as quickly as they can. I think so too. I can't speak for others' experiences, of course, but I feel I've had great service from TB! as a piece of software and much more prompt responses to queries and bug reports than ever I've had from MS, IBM, or any of the other corporate behemoths I deal with on a regular basis. For these and many other reasons, it's my policy to recommend it to any clients who're looking for a better email solution - for personal or office use. However - I'm not currently using IMAP. I feel it's my duty, though, to give it a shot. Any kind soul out there care to provide me with a historical message base of list traffic to get me started with some nice large folders? MB My sister is 87 years old and only just this afternoon was diagnosed with MB severe glaucoma in her left eye. I'm really sorry to hear this. :( I had the same problem after an accident some time ago - lost one eye and developed glaucoma in the other. So I understand a measure of what she's going through. MB It's treatable, of course, with the drops prescribed for her to put in 4 MB times a day. But if she's not faithful to put them in, she could completely MB lose the vision in that eye--which vision at present is already pretty dim. It's very good news, though, that this has been diagnosed at a treatable stage. I know dropping 4 times a day is annoying (I'm cursed with that fate myself :) ) but on the up side I was told that a glass of brandy a day can also help with glaucoma. :girlcheer: By an actual doctor - I jest not. Apparently this moderate intake helps lower the blood pressure and hence also the intraocular pressure. MB I do realize that for others, TB! is either a tool with which to make a MB living, or an adjunct tool to help make getting that living easier. That's how it started for me. Now that I've found the lists, though, I seem to have become adicted. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Mary MB I'm replete with New York strip steak and Key Lime pie. Wish I could have MB shared with you, if you like that kind of stuff. :) Like it? !! Suffice to say, you've made me totally impatient for my next US assignment. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Little bug quoting when using RTV and Smileys
Hi Mary NVP You also using regular expressions in your reply template? Could be NVP this is causing your problem. [snip] MB I think this cause can be ruled out in the case of the random failure to MB quote smileys from RTV when the smiley-imaging function is enabled. MB Mainly because Miguel reproduced the behavior--though not at will--using a MB template without any regular expressions. Agreed. I'm now leaning towards a theory involving discrepancies between the email document as it actually exists on file and the view of the document presented in the RTV - ie, that TB! is perhaps using the view of the document as a source for quotes when replying rather than the document itself. Pure speculation, of course. I'm sure the guys at RitLabs know the code much better than do I. :) MB However, I'm going to test it further using a template that doesn't have MB regular expressions and see how it goes. Just to satisfy my own curiosity. Good luck. I'll keep playing with this myself, too. I'd like to find a pattern. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Key Lime Pie (Was: Reflections on IMAP POP3)
Hi Dennis DH So, to make a real key lime pie, you must use Key or Mexican limes, not DH yuck regular limes. This absolutely sounds like something I have to try. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Reflections on IMAP POP3
Hi Mary MB Surely you're joking, Natasha? Oh no - I really am that reckless. :) MB (Obscure reference above to the book *Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman?* MB http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/spring97/surely.htm ) I really must get round to reading this one. I love this guy! MB I could try to make WinRar zip my TBBETA folder up and send it to you PM. That'd be fantastic! Thanks manyfold. RAR format is OK for me - and smaller than ZIP, too. But only if it's 10MB: my server only allows a 10MB maximum, so anything above that would mean splitting the RAR into chunks and sending separately - which is more trouble than I'd ask you to take. The address with the 10MB capacity is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Again - many thanks for offering to send this. MB I am glad yours is under control. I'll pass the brandy hint along to my MB teetotaling sister. I have a freezerful of different flavours, too. And with medicine like this, who needs a spoonful of sugar? MB here's a virtual glass of cognac for you, from me--and ultimately courtesy MB of one of our List moderators, who created it at my request, a long time MB ago. :cognac: ) Mmmm! :) Thank you - and also to its gallant creator. MB I do realize that for others, TB! is either a tool with which to make a MB living, or an adjunct tool to help make getting that living easier. NVP That's how it started for me. Now that I've found the lists, though, I seem NVP to have become adicted. :) MB Someone should have warned you! LOL Then I'd have been obliged to sign up just to find out what they were warning me against. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.25 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.25 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Little bug quoting when using RTV and Smileys
Hi Miguel Try it by replaying and quoting this line ;-) M Darn! I've just found out that it doesn't happen all the time. The line above M is quoted fine, smiley included. However, see the quote below from a message M from Mary Bull: That's how I recognize him, too! That, and his distinctly definitive accent! M It had an smiley at the end and it is not included when quoted. A different style of smiley, though: ;) instead of ;-) You also using regular expressions in your reply template? Could be this is causing your problem. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.24 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
[Usability] Re: The most un-obvious things
Hi Tony MAU And now, let's all go and have a beer. I'll even pay this time :) TB Now that is an offer we can't afford to miss... Might never happen again :) I'm still puzzling over a message about beer being headed 'The most un-obvious things'. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.24 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Do you happen to know...
Hi Miguel N can anyone tell me how many beans make five? :) M http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclientie=UTF-8rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-33,GGLD:enq=%22how+many+beans+make+five%22 M Choose the answer that best suits you :) :) Thank ye very kindly. Cracks me up! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.21 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.23 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Do you happen to know...
Hi Mary How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? MB A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could, if a woodchuck MB could chuck wood! Fantastic! Thanks, Mary - for this, and also for making my day with the woodchuck sites. :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.21 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Do you happen to know...
Hi Miguel M How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Can't beat Mary's answer to this, but can anyone tell me how many beans make five? :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.21 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: OT: Do you happen to know...
Hi Liz M A difficult one for someone starting to learn English :) L Try a simple one L Red lorry, yellow lorry.. say it as fast as possible. Torture! I've been working on this one for over 20 years, and still can't get it! :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.21 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.18
Hi MAU M What is your normal reply template like? Well spotted! Looks like it's a bug in one of my regular expressions. (Oh dear - how embarrassing. :) ) Just removed each in turn, and now my F4 does exactly as it should. Thank you! :) -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.21 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.18
Hi Liz L I find space takes me down my message list, not UP which would be the L appropriate received order eg, if i open oldest. and press space I go to L older not newer Check out Ctrl+Space. Just tried it to see what would happen. Joy! -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.0.18 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: buggy 3.5.0.17 (or when can we have a RC?)
Hi David A workaround is to use the customise feature to create a keyboard shortcut for this function DE Thanks fro that idea, but where do I do this from? I have see it discussed DE on the various lists but due to a system crash I have lost the information. Go to View | Toolbars | Customise and select the menu you wish to customise from the Select Container drop-down at the top of the dialog. Items to customise for the menu (or toolbar) appear in the Current Items tree control towards the right of the dialog. The list of currently-assigned shortcuts appears towards the bottom right of the dialog when you click on a particular control, along with an entry field and buttons to add/remove shortcuts. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.0.18 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: 3.5.18
Hi Mic MC Question: I need to move 'Reply quoting selected text from F4, but I can't MC find it in the customiser. (Yes, I am quite probably an idiot.) Any MC suggestions? Ta. Select Main Menu in the Select Container drop-down and expand the Specials branch of the Current Items tree. Also, select Message List Pop-up Menu in the Select Container drop-down and expand the Specials branch of the Current Items tree. Now for *my* dumb question: I don't - AFAIK - have F4 assigned to anything except Reply Quoting Selected Text, but F4 actually replies using my normal reply template, quoting all text. What am I missing? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.0.18 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
External exception 80000003 opening messages in 3.5.19
Hi 1. Open TB! 3.5.19. 2. Open a few messages (using Enter from the message list). 3. Start receiving intermittent dialogs containing the above error on opening message (either read or unread - it doesn't matter). 4. Press OK and message views normally. 5. After a few of these, receive cascading AV which closes down TB!. TB! closes too quickly to grab the details first hand, but fortunately I found the following from Windows Event Viewer. Event Type: Error Event Source: Application Error Event Category: None Event ID: 1000 Description: Faulting application thebat.exe, version 3.5.18.0, faulting module thebat.exe, version 3.5.18.0, fault address 0x006790bb. Formoreinformation,seeHelpandSupportCenterat http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.0.19 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: External exception 80000003 opening messages in 3.5.19
Hi Goncalo NVP Faulting application thebat.exe, version 3.5.18.0, faulting NVP module thebat.exe, version 3.5.18.0, fault address 0x006790bb. GF It seems to be version 3.5.18.0 and not 3.5.19.0... Apologies: forgot to mention I'd reverted. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Quirk in address book's mass edit function
Hi Peter NVP If I enter the address book, select all (or any number greater than one) NVP entries in any group and use the mass edit feature, the 'Display NVP name as' field is disabled. Anyone know a good workaround? PO Please support https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=2666 Gladly. Thanks for the link. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: External exception 80000003 opening messages in 3.5.19
Hi Miguel M I just had this same error (or very similar) when trying to start a new M message from the toolbar. This is what I got: M .. and more, and I had to finally kill TB from Task Manager. I tried .19 again, got the External exception and a longer cascade. I wasn't sure it was going to die this time. Just as I was exiting to Task Manager to kill TB!, it terminated itself anyway. -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.21 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Quirk in address book's mass edit function
Hi If I enter the address book, select all (or any number greater than one) entries in any group and use the mass edit feature, the 'Display name as' field is disabled. Anyone know a good workaround? -- Groetjes Natasha The Bat! 3.5.18 on Windows XP Professional 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.5.0.17 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
