Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
So...Yuki, what will you use that is competitive and fully supports DBCS? I've been waiting a long time, too. :-( P.S. Feel free to reply to me off list Current beta is 2.11 Beta/8 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
On Wednesday, December 17, 2003, at 10:02:41 AM, George M. Menegakis picked up a feather, dipped its tip in ink, and began scribbling: but surely you do not suspect betatesters of such idiocy? Yes, of course Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I think that solves the problem. I have nothing more to say. Is this irony? If it is there is a misunderstanding between you and Alexander. If it not irony, please disregard my reply ! If Alexander indeed yes of course suspects betatesters of such idiotic behaviour as complaining about the software when the phone cable is out of its socket, then I indeed have nothing more to say. No irony on any level. -- |\ /| \~~~/ \~~~/ | \/ | /\ \~/ ICQ# 3146019 || /__\ /___\ /_\ /___\IQ# 3.14159 Japanese T-shirt collection: SPREAD BEAVER - Showing the Vaginal Area (on a teenaged girl) Flyin' high with The Bat! v2.01.7 over the swamps of Windows 2000 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Wednesday, December 17, 2003, 12:27:15 PM, MaXxX wrote: If Alexander indeed yes of course suspects betatesters of such idiotic behaviour as complaining about the software when the phone cable is out of its socket, then I indeed have nothing more to say. No irony on any level. There is a misunderstanding. Your exact question was -but surely you do not suspect betatesters of such idiocy? And he replied -yes, of course to your question, or in other words - yes, of course I do not suspect betatesters of such idiocy You asked Is NOT A ? He replied Yes, NOT A If he though that we are idiots then he would answer NO NOT A thus A It has to do with the language interpretation of two negations. -- George M. Menegakis, System Network Administration Using The BAT! v2.03.10 on Microsoft Windows XPService Pack 1 v5.1 Build(2600) Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Wednesday, December 17, 2003, 2:12:19 AM, Lourdes Jones wrote: All the bug reporters appear to be using the native mode. For example I would type ctrl + ` followed by a to get the same character as above. And it is THIS mode which is broken in the HTML editor. Yes, exactly. I cannot insert by pressing `;' and then `'. Instead of that, when I press `;' I got with the cursor between them. -- George M. Menegakis, System Network Administration Using The BAT! v2.03.10 on Microsoft Windows XPService Pack 1 v5.1 Build(2600) Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Monday, December 15, 2003, 9:46:39 PM, Alexander Leschinsky wrote: Hello George, On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:03:20 +0200 (15.12.2003 18:03 my local time) you wrote about another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?, at least in part: GMMNo way. For example I cannot write accented greek characters using HTML GMM editor. Jesuis désolé pour ce Français stupide, mais c'est seulement exercice et essai d'exemple Whatever. If i try to write an accented letter in html editor, the accent itself and then the letter (without accent) are inserted. -- George M. Menegakis, System Network Administration Using The BAT! v2.03.6 on Microsoft Windows XPService Pack 1 v5.1 Build(2600) Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Frank,
Tuesday, December 16, 2003, 08:44, you wrote:
FW Hello Jernej, hello tbbeta,
- AltGr+key doesn't work (eg. I can't enter any of these
characters: @{}[] in any other way than pasting them,
FW Confirmed, seemed that it doesn't matter witch Charset you're using
Not confirmed here.
--
Mogens
---
Using The Bat! v2.03.6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1
---
Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello MaXxX, hello tbbeta, Everyone complains? Whatever, they must be stupid users anyway, they don't understand how it was supposed to work, There must be someone who should explain it! e.g. the view-modes. As Dierk already wrotes, nearly everybody here has problems to adjust and to Understand the View-modes. Sometimes it seemed, that the betatesters do some kind of reengineering, and due to this, we very often interpreted things wrong, but how should we know the right way, if there is no description? It would be better, for all, when there is a new feature implemented that there is not only something like: [+] View Modes for message list There should also be a short description how it work's. like 1. Parameter Name 2. Where could I find it, 3. What's the meaning of the parameter 4. How could it be adjust If this would be done, the job of the engineer's and the betatesters would be much easier. -- Regards Frank The Bat! 2.03.6 / Windows XP Service Pack 1 pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tuesday, December 16, 2003/10:46:46 AM RE: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !? Greetings Matt, On Monday, December 15, 2003, 1:12:13 PM, you wrote: MT Wow...I just love the talk on this list. It's a freaking beta with all MT the requisite disclaimers associated with it. It isn't supposed to MT work. If you don't like it use the stable release. Yes, 2.02.3 isn't MT perfect but come on, name any piece of software that runs perfectly. MT Some of you have sooo many suggestions on how to run _their_ MT company...if you have all the answers, why don't you just start your MT own company and compete with them? I agree 100% Matt. If the version being run is not available from Ritlab's main download area and must be obtained through the beta pages then it SHOULD be clear to any experienced computer user that they are running a version that may contain bugs and some critical. Anyway ... - -- Regards, DG Raftery Sr.®© Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 9.0b1 Comment: KeyID: 0x839F51C7 Comment: Fingerprint: 3ACA 8299 2605 96B7 98FB D71E F8C9 F22C 839F 51C7 iQA/AwUBP98pfPjJ8iyDn1HHEQIoGwCg2xp5iqsuX3DGkkOyIigCw3NJRAcAn1Ns rLGFBuWvzL5Mxyf6yDKEc5aN =mVBE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello DG,
A reminder of what DG Raftery Sr.®© typed on:
16 December 2003 at 10:49:17 GMT -0500
MT Wow...I just love the talk on this list. It's a freaking beta with all
MT the requisite disclaimers associated with it. It isn't supposed to
MT work.
No but the idea is we tell them what's not working and then they fix it
ready for the release. Well, that's the theory anyway!
--
Best regards,Tony.
The Bat! v2.03.10 16/12/2003 at 16:42 UTC2ØØ3 - AWB
Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Jernej, On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:07:20 +0100 (16.12.2003 16:07 my local time) you wrote about "another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?", at least in part:JS How did you write them - while still in plain text editor, or afterJS switching to HTML?J'ai commut au HTML, ai crit le texte, Alt+numpad utilis pour les caractres spciaux-- Best regards, Alexander LeschinskyPowered by ? The Bat! 2.03.10 ? POP3 Catcher 1.3.718.1120 ? MyMacros 1.07Weakened by Windows 98 4.10. A - MOTD:The human race is faced with a cruel choice: work or daytime television.Unknown Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello MaXxX, On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:49:32 +0100 (16.12.2003 15:49 my local time) you wrote about another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?, at least in part: M You seem to insist on a scenario wise programmer - stupid user. No, because I'm user too... But my experience and health teach me use position How I can use this tool, what is behind the scene, how adopt it to my specific tasks, which habits can be slightly changed for better result, because I'm interested in result, not in action... Well, it's lyrics :-) M Of course, there ARE degrees of stupidity beyond that ... M but surely you do not suspect betatesters of such idiocy? Yes, of course M WHO are you writing the software for, anyway? If the users claim that M this and that is unwieldy/unreliable/unfriendly/inconsistent, then M their wish should be your command, as they're your customers! When and where I said It will be so forever, because it must be so? Two times I wrote my vision of some parts of VM-interface (message-list header context-menu), which is unused toy now Other parts work now?... M View modes DON'T WORK AS EXPECTED. Where and under which conditions? Let's imagine I read nothing about VM and try to find problems DON'T WORK AS EXPECTED is not problem description, it's sensation, mood, impression, frustration, disillusionment, noncomplacency, insult There ARE still problems in VM, but spot of balance can be found -- Best regards, Alexander Leschinsky Powered by The Bat! 2.03.10 POP3 Catcher 1.3.718.1120 MyMacros 1.07 Weakened by Windows 98 4.10. A - MOTD: The cost of living is going up and the chance of living is going down. Flip Wilson Current beta is 2.03.10 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Monday, December 15, 2003, 2:09:10 PM, Kenneth S. Rhee wrote: Has HTML editor been fixed. Spelling check problems and other issues need to be resolved. No way. For example I cannot write accented greek characters using HTML editor. -- George M. Menegakis, System Network Administration Using The BAT! v2.03.6 on Microsoft Windows XPService Pack 1 v5.1 Build(2600) Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hi, Please see below... On Monday, December 15, 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does *your* TB! hang all the time and if so, are any reports submitted to the BT? trtdc What kind of answer is this!? Do I have to be personally able to trtdc reproduce every single bug others confirm, to be eligible to talk trtdc about it!? Please! I can confirm the at least one very annoying hanging problem. When I am collecting messages using the Message Dispatcher, about 1 time in 5, my Bat hangs. Let's say I get the information that I have 5 messages. I mark the ones I want to receive and those I want to delete. Then I click the Start Transfer button, and that's when TB hangs. I get a message Waiting for the dispatcher, but the dispatcher never starts. This has been going on for the last several releases, including all of the CEs. Currently I am using the latest - 6 or 06, whichever it is. -- Avi Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
On Monday, December 15, 2003 @ 10:55:41 AM [-0700], Dierk Haasis wrote: This is simply wrong, betas *are* supposed to work. If they were not, what to test? I should have said that betas don't usually work as advertised. And the original message you cited, and further messages by various ML members, were just pointing out what is a shame lately: We beta test, we find bugs - and they stay even through more than one release version. Instead of fixing known bugs RITLabs seems to be more interested in adding new features with not just possible but real new bugs. That's simply not good policy, neither technically nor from a marketing PoV as Maxxx and Allie pointed out. This is true. I just think that some of the discussions get way to accusatory toward Stefan. Maybe he gets paid handsomely to be the programmer-that-has-to-do-the-beta-announcements-and-gets-attacked...I don't know. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar as they say... -- Matt Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello George, On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:03:20 +0200 (15.12.2003 18:03 my local time) you wrote about "another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?", at least in part:GMM No way. For example I cannot write accented greek characters using HTMLGMM editor.Je suis désolé pour ce Français stupide, mais c'est seulement exercice et essai d'exemple-- Best regards, Alexander LeschinskyPowered by The Bat! 2.03.6 POP3 Catcher 1.3.718.1120 MyMacros 1.07Weakened by Windows 98 4.10. A - MOTD:Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.Dale Carnegie Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Matt! On Monday, December 15, 2003 at 8:55:24 PM you wrote: This is true. I just think that some of the discussions get way to accusatory toward Stefan. Maybe he gets paid handsomely to be the programmer-that-has-to-do-the-beta-announcements-and-gets-attacked...I don't know. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar as they say... Actually Stefan *is* RITLabs, if nothing has changed over there. From my experience he knows how to take some of us, like Maxxx (Stefan's answer to him showed that explicitly), Marck, Allie, me, to name just a few. All in all I am still very satisfied with TB, but I am miraculously spared by all the serious bugs, the ones I encounter are mere annoyances. Nonetheless, lately there are more and more bugs, some grave (Jonathan Angliss couldn't even start TB), some core (IMAP still isn't working correctly), most annoying (View modes). Add to that some new features that are bells and whistles as Maxxx put it (UI cosmetics) and I really see what all the fuss is about. -- Dierk Haasis The Bat 2.03.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600Service Pack 1 Das 11. Gebot: Du solltest vertrauen auf Deines Nachbarn Dummheit. (Aleks Papst) Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Alexander, On Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 00:54 GMT +0500, crowds cheered as Alexander Leschinsky [AL] unveiled: AL It doesn't happen at all, misunderstanding from user's side is NOT TB AL bug AL Context menu change VM always globally, changing VM in folder's AL properties change only one folder, also always. This one isn't a bug, but it is a rough edge. In every other respect, manipulating the column bar directly is a local change (well, it changes the current view mode, but that is sort of local). All of a sudden, right clicking on the column headers changes global options. That is counter intuitive. If the discrepancy is desired, then it should be made clear by the menu's wording. Otherwise it should change *local* settings. I suppose the third alternative is to add options to the menu so that *both* local or global changes can be made. For a feature that is otherwise so nice and reasonably easy to use, this is a huge stumbling block. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal Using The Bat! 2.03.6 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 1 Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 00:46:39 [UTC+0500] (Monday, December 15, 2003 20:46 my local time) Alexander Leschinsky wrote: GMMNo way. For example I cannot write accented greek characters using HTML GMM editor. Jesuis désolé pour ce Français [...] ^^ This is an example of one of the bugs in HTML editor. Of course, it is still impossible to enter accented ISO-8859-2 character as well. -- Best regards, Zygmunt Wereszczynski (Using The Bat! v2.03.6 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4) Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Alexander, On Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 00:54 GMT +0500, crowds cheered as Alexander Leschinsky [AL] unveiled: AL It doesn't happen at all, misunderstanding from user's side is NOT TB AL bug AL Context menu change VM always globally, changing VM in folder's AL properties change only one folder, also always. This one isn't a bug, but it is a rough edge. In every other respect, manipulating the column bar directly is a local change (well, it changes the current view mode, but that is sort of local). All of a sudden, right clicking on the column headers changes global options. That is counter intuitive. If the discrepancy is desired, then it should be made clear by the menu's wording. Otherwise it should change *local* settings. I suppose the third alternative is to add options to the menu so that *both* local or global changes can be made. For a feature that is otherwise so nice and reasonably easy to use, this is a huge stumbling block. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal Using The Bat! 2.03.6 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600Service Pack 1 Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
On
Monday, December 15, 2003, 20:46:39, Alexander Leschinsky wrote:
Je suis dsol pour ce Franais stupide, mais c'est seulement exercice et essai d'exempleHmm, lt me test this... Yup, seems to work...BTW, I just noticed a few bugs:-
Shift+Del doesn't cut the text; other cut/copy/paste keyboard shortcuts (Ctrl+X; Ctrl+Ins, Ctrl+C; Shift+Ins, Ctrl+V) seem to work though-
AltGr+key doesn't work (eg. I can't enter any of these characters: @{}[] in any other way than pasting them, since they're all AltGr+key combinations on Slovenian keyboard).-- Jernej Simoni, [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/http://deepthought.ena.si/[The Bat! v2.03.6 on Windows NT Clone 5.2.3790.]Only someone who understands something absolutely can explain it sono one else can understand it. -- Nobel Principle
Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hi Alexander On Monday, December 15, 2003 8:54:44 PM you wrote: It doesn't happen at all, misunderstanding from user's side is NOT TB bug Context menu change VM always globally, changing VM in folder's properties change only one folder, also always. This does not work over here. To change VM in folder's properties change does nothing. But if you think that all is a misunderstanding from user's side it would be great to give a exact description how to use all these different View Modes - Folder - Folder view mode - Folder - Copy columns setting to... - Folder - Properties - General - Columns settings - View - View threads by - View - View mode - Options - Preferences - Messages - View Modes (New from / Used by) - Right click menu: . Manage view mode . Create view mode . Setup view mode There are now *too many* places where View Mode can be set - it is not a misunderstanding from user's side - it's a mess... -- Best regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] TheBat! 2.03.6 on Windows 2000 5 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hi Alexander On Monday, December 15, 2003 8:54:44 PM you wrote: It doesn't happen at all, misunderstanding from user's side is NOT TB bug Context menu change VM always globally, changing VM in folder's properties change only one folder, also always. This does not work over here. To change VM in folder's properties change does nothing. But if you think that all is a misunderstanding from user's side it would be great to give a exact description how to use all these different View Modes - Folder - Folder view mode - Folder - Copy columns setting to... - Folder - Properties - General - Columns settings - View - View threads by - View - View mode - Options - Preferences - Messages - View Modes (New from / Used by) - Right click menu: . Manage view mode . Create view mode . Setup view mode There are now *too many* places where View Mode can be set - it is not a misunderstanding from user's side - it's a mess... -- Best regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] TheBat! 2.03.6 on Windows 2000 5 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Januk, On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:52:42 -0800 (16.12.2003 01:52 my local time) you wrote about another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?, at least in part: JA This one isn't a bug, but it is a rough edge. Yes, agree And I wrote some (days, weeks) ago about my _own_ vision of View Modes in message-list headers context-menu. Maybe, it's also unnecessary complex, but, from my POV, more logical and usable Short remake: 0. It must be not global, but folder-specific, with some possible extenders 1. Changing with menu in folder with Account default... change VM for all folders in _current account_ with Account default 2. Changing VM from one to another will change VM for all folders in account with this VM (and another folders will show after it new VM in properties) 3. Changing to VM from Use folder's specific change nothing in other folders -- Best regards, Alexander Leschinsky Powered by The Bat! 2.03.10 POP3 Catcher 1.3.718.1120 MyMacros 1.07 Weakened by Windows 98 4.10. A - MOTD: I hate mankind, for I think myself one of the best of them, and I know how bad I am. Samuel Johnson Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hi Alexander On Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:28:05 AM you wrote: MS But if you think that all is a misunderstanding from user's side it MS would be great to give a exact description how to use all these MS different View Modes Yes, it will be, when we'll get some final status of VM, I think Better would be to tell us *now* which and where you wanted to implement this different view modes - then we can test and see if this really works or not. It's quite difficult to test a feature when there is no information what it should do and the only answer is that there is a misunderstanding from user's side... -- Best regards, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] TheBat! 2.03.6 on Windows 2000 5 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: another new feature, with the old ones still unfixed !?
Hello Alexander! On Tuesday, December 16, 2003 at 2:12:31 AM you wrote: If it's bug - but if it's misinterpretation? Context menu _not_ intended for changing View modes on folder-level basis, it _has_ different reason (fast test of VM), at least for current state of art. I don't say that it is always the fault of the sender (in this case: the one issuing a statement) when a misinterpretation occurs. But in this case it obviously is. Not one of us did understand the current View Modes feature correctly. Simply put: The programmers invited misinterpretation. Instead of - and that's what Maxxx wrote - blaming us, Alexander, it would be easier and better, particularly from a marketing perspective, to just think about it again and then change it. -- Dierk Haasis The Bat 2.03.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600Service Pack 1 Paying for movies is like paying for sex - if it's free it feels better. Current beta is 2.03.6 | Using TBBETA information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
