Re: Purchased the Bat!
Hello, Anthony: Thank you for this. Your message was valuable, even for somebody who has used the Bat for several years. Your remind me that it would be a mistake to recommend it to family members (who would rely on me for support) and you have also reminded me of the importance of keeping HTML turned off. Incidentally, after building dozens and dozens of filters, I finally gave up and installed a challenge and response email filtering system. Not everybody likes that, but I am careful to create a permission for every personal contact who receives my business card. Perhaps you will develop an economical way to create all the necessary filtering for keeping spam out of your inbox. I will eventually convert to Bayesian filtering. But there too, I notice quite a few messages indicating that route is not as smooth as people might wish. With best wishes, David Austen Sunday, October 26, 2003, 7:01:14 AM, you wrote: AGA After two days of trying it out, I decided to purchase The Bat! AGA The Bat will replace Outlook Express as my primary e-mail client. AGA The reasons why I bought it: AGA 1. Spam relief AGA The ability to set filters that look at message headers has AGA _vastly_ improved my filtering of spam. Almost all the spam I AGA receive has a Content-type of multipart/alternative or AGA text/html, whereas almost all the legitimate e-mail I receive AGA has a content-type of plain text, or something else. By AGA filtering on this one field, I manage to separate spam from real AGA e-mail with at least 95% accuracy. On Outlook Express, even with AGA several filters (on keywords, message size, and so on), only AGA about 20% of spam was correctly identified. AGA I still read the headers of spam and delete it by hand, but AGA having it correctly sorted speeds this up considerably, since AGA legit e-mail and spam are less likely to be mixed together. AGA 2. No HTML AGA The Bat lets me turn off HTML support. Outlook Express doesn't. AGA By not interpreting HTML, I can avoid any virus risks or stupid AGA Javascript or other problems associated with HTML. Virtually AGA nobody sends me e-mail in HTML, anyway, except for spammers, and AGA a handful of correspondents who leave OE defaults as they are. AGA 3. Quick raw message viewing AGA I don't run anti-virus or anti-spam software on my systems, for AGA various reasons. Instead, I examine the raw text of suspicious AGA messages before opening them. This can be done on OE (Properties AGA | Details | Message Source on a message), but it's awkward. I AGA can do this rapidly with F9 on The Bat and quickly see if there AGA is any suspicious content in the message. AGA 4. Better control overall AGA The Bat has a lot more options for control and sending of e-mail, AGA and I like to be able to adjust everything to my liking. AGA What I lost in going to The Bat: AGA 1. PGP support AGA PGP support for Outlook Express with PGP 8.x works great. It AGA hardly works at all with The Bat. No sense in having twenty AGA different options for PGP support if almost none of them work AGA correctly. What's wrong with just having buttons like OE? This AGA is not a blocking issue for me, as I can still send and receive AGA PGP with OE-equivalent functionality by hand, but I can imagine AGA that some potential customers would have to pass on the product AGA for this reason. AGA 2. Too many bugs AGA The product crashed at least three dozen times while I was trying AGA to tidy up folders imported from OE. On several occasions, it AGA locked the current window, and killing the Bat process did not AGA release the window--I had to log off and log on again. These AGA bugs seemed limited to that clean-up activity, but if I start AGA getting bugs in everyday use of the product, it's going to go AGA right out the window. There is no excuse for _any_ bugs in a AGA commercial product. AGA Also, if PGP Keys is running concurrently with The Bat, some AGA operations in The Bat appear to crash the PGP SDK service. This AGA isn't acceptable, either. AGA 3. Sparse documentation AGA I'm not one to depend a great deal on documentation, but the AGA online help for The Bat is among the sparsest I've ever seen, and AGA it's a complex product. I can usually figure out things on my AGA own, but some things just have to be documented, and from what AGA I've seen, they often are not. This isn't a blocking issue for AGA me, since there are other ways to find out how to do things (such AGA as this mailing list), but it slows adoption of the product. AGA Anyway ... I couldn't tell if a personal license was sufficient AGA for me (I'm a sole proprietorship, so I use e-mail for both AGA business and personal stuff), so I got the commercial license. AGA Since I'm currently broke, ยค45 was a lot to cough up, but I don't AGA use software that isn't free without paying for it. AGA I would not recommend this product to my parents or other AGA non-geeks, but to people with a fair
An attempt at thwarting Bayesian filtering?
Greetings, all: Is this an attempt to fool Bayesian filtering? I hope to move to Bayesian filtering on the Bat myself one day. I found this short piece of text in a spam message: is, as he conceives it, made up of elementary atoms having a first. Our own flags should be substituted for those of the is henceforth to predominate. The aim of the real statesman is Do they know what they are doing? Is it better that they make it so small? Have you all seen other similar, interesting examples? And have they ever succeeded? -- Best regards, David Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: An attempt at thwarting Bayesian filtering?
Hello, Thomas: Tuesday, October 14, 2003, 12:13:00 PM, you wrote: (snip) Is it better that they make it so small? TF I don't know what you mean by better. ;-) Better, means able to circumvent Bayesian filtering (if a small size matters in some filtering processes. On the other hand, using a large text (a brute force attack) might succeed by adding so much legitimate text that the spam content would be diluted and relatively insignificant. In comparison. most spam is rather crudely written, compared to advertorials in the (U.S.A.) press. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Bayesian filtering products roundup: WAS Re[3]: Fwd: Re: Spam
Hello, Miguel, Paul John and Mark: Thank you, all, for your help with the filtering roundup I had proposed. I want to implement Bayesian filtering and am looking for best practices and products. of course that's always going to be somewhat subjective. So these are the solutions mentioned which are working well for some of you: Popfile, SpamPal, K9 and the Bat's Known filter approach. Any other final thoughts or suggestions, anybody else? -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Bayesian filtering products roundup: WAS Re[3]: Fwd: Re: Spam
Hello, Mogens: Monday, September 29, 2003, 11:15:53 AM, you wrote: MH This is my 3rd day with BayesIt, it is effective - and kind of fun MH to use. I actually look forward to spam so I can train the filter! Thank you for this reminder. Others seems to recommend BayesIt too, and I don't know how I forgot to put it on my list. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Bayesian filtering products roundup: WAS Re[3]: Fwd: Re: Spam
Hello, Andre: Monday, September 29, 2003, 5:11:24 PM, you wrote: AW You are using v1.62i. Antispam plugins are only saupported since AW 2.0. So none of these are usable until I upgrade: BayesIt, Popfile, SpamPal, K9, and the Bat's Known filter approach. Correct? Thank you. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Bayesian filtering products roundup: WAS Re[3]: Fwd: Re: Spam
Hello, Keith: Monday, September 29, 2003, 5:33:27 PM, you wrote: (snip) KRI Just switched from PopFile KR to SpamBayes (snip) KR(http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/ ). It's been kind KR of (snip) KRa pain to set up--for me, at least--but I finally got it KR KRworking today and it has great possibilities. Thanks for catching up with me here. Sounds like SpamBayes has a powerful ability to learn. Yes, that Unsure Folder (or Unknown folder) is an important one, isn't it? KR --defeating the whole purpose of the filter. Wouldn't that be ironic?! KR Presumably, after a little training (and I got a good start with KR about 250 spam messages I'd collected previously), I will only KR need to occasionally check my Unsure folder, and VERY rarely my KR Spam folder. Eventualy Unsure should need only weekly checking, eh? I would be happy to supply a lot of spam messages to folks who need some samples for training purposes! ;-) -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00.6 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Fwd: Re: Spam
Hello, Granville: Saturday, September 27, 2003, 5:41:36 AM, you wrote: (snip) GC Can the Bat! deal with this kind GC of Spam or is it necessary to GC get another programme to do this GC work. My dear Batters, could we have a concise, succinct roundup of helpful advice on solutions (e.g. Bayesian filtering). While I embrace Bayesian in principle, it has occurred to me that implementations mentioned here in terms of The Bat are occasionally a bit trouble-prone and I already invest enough time maintaining IT here. I need to feel reasonably safe in this before I actually install anything. A question: when we say Bayesian, shall we agree this should mean automatic learning (and not manual design) for filters? -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Messages in Outbox sent by accident
Hello, Thomas: Wednesday, September 24, 2003, 1:22:50 AM, you wrote: (snip) DAI noticed earlier that it also stops me from deleting mail in the DAOutbox, but I didn't twig. TF This has been changed in v2. You can now delete those messages, TF but TB will ask you first (are you sure). Thank you for this. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Messages in Outbox sent by accident
Greetings, My busy fingers (OK, clumsy) are occasionally responsible for messages in Outbox being sent before they are ready. Yikes! Is there some safeguard that will help me prevent this accidental posting? Perhaps I am hitting a shortcut. (For now, I keep them temporarily addressed to only me, to avoid embarrassment. But that wastes time.) -- Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Messages in Outbox sent by accident
Hello, Patrick: Tuesday, September 23, 2003, 4:08:53 PM, you wrote: (snip) PG With this option, no matter how hard you try the mail goes PG nowhere until you 'unpark' it. Yes, that works just fine. Thanks very much, Patrick. I noticed earlier that it also stops me from deleting mail in the Outbox, but I didn't twig. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Messages in Outbox sent by accident
Hello, Martin: Tuesday, September 23, 2003, 4:06:48 PM, you wrote: MW Use Confirm immediate sending in account properties. You click MW Send and then confirm... hows that? I guess this only works if MW Delivery is set to immediate. Yes, I do get that that dialog box asking me if I want to send, but it's almost as if there is also a way to override this safety switch. ideas? -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Messages in Outbox sent by accident
Hello, Martin: Tuesday, September 23, 2003, 4:06:48 PM, you wrote: (snip) MW Use Confirm immediate sending in account properties. You(s MW click MW Send and then confirm... hows that? I guess this only works if MW Delivery is set to immediate. Hmm. I do have it set to Immediate but that Confirm device has not been working. I wonder why not. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: : String search within results (to achieve Boolean AND)
Hello, Perry: Friday, September 12, 2003, 5:12:24 PM, you wrote: PN Hi David, PN Friday, September 12, 2003, 4:19:31 PM, you wrote: DRA How do other Batters store important notes? (If there is nothing DRA to annotate.) PN My strategy is to use the color group capability (Message / PN Colour Group), and I also park such messages. I have defined a PN color group called TIPS, which is of course the color group I PN choose. Periodically I move those messages to a separate folder PN called TIPS from TBUDL. Though I haven't done it yet, I PN should probably define a Read Message filter and use that to do PN everything all at once. Thank you, Perry. Yes, your idea is a likely an excellent one, and then again something made me think this should be done at a level above the messages. Have a very good weekend. David -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
String search within results (to achieve Boolean AND)
Greetings, Sometimes, when seeking a message, a search term I would use is just too common, so a Boolean AND strategy is necessary. I know I can search the results of a preliminary search by copying all those prelim results into a special folder, and then searching *that* special results folder. Is there a better way? -- Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: String search within results (to achieve Boolean AND)
Hello, Jernej: What a great tip. That's excellent news, that Boolean works here. I know only one way to store ideas like these (within Bat) for future reference. How do other Batters store important notes? (If there is nothing to annotate.) Friday, September 12, 2003, we wrote: a Boolean AND strategy is necessary. JS Use for AND and | for OR. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Wrapping recieved mail correctly
Hello, all: JD Hello Dave, JD Thursday, September 11, 2003, it was written: JD Now as I'm viewing TB! at 1600x1200 an unwrapped JD mail line is very long. Is it possible to set the viewer to force JD the mail to wrap at 80 columns? Oh how I wish for that feature. :) I am now using Januk Aggarwal's excellent wrap templates http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/Library.html#rewrap (%QINCLUDE=wq) for (replies and forwards) and also hope to accomplish wrapping on redirects, too. (Ideas?) FWIW, I use redirect frequently to modify a subject line. With a two-letter nickname for addressees, I can redirect pretty quickly. 1. Would this work-around make sense to others here, until wrap incoming is available? 2. Do others already have a better way to customize subject lines? (Special thanks to Marck for walking me over to that template.) Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Start up: The Bat balks
Hello, Kim: Monday, September 8, 2003, 6:39:01 PM, you wrote: K I haven't seen a repeat of the problem yet, but I plan on trying your K workaround, if it happens. I also have always had the habit of making K regular backups, but considering the previous problem, I make those K backups even more often now. One of my fundamentals here is to keep that Inbox as close to empty as possible. I've found it to be more vulnerable than other folders if anything goes wrong, say, in the process of an upgrade. K Have you tried the trial version of The Bat version 2 yet? I can't K blame you for not wanting to upgrade if you have problems with the K current version, as I did. However, an upgrade may solve the problem K as well. I did read that some people who tried out the trial and chose K not to upgrade were able to revert back to the older version. I've not K tried that, so I don't know how well it works. I've become very cautious about upgrades (as opposed to simple patches) but one day I suppose I will too. K Also, what is the exact message you're getting when The Bat won't K start? Usually, just A call to an OS function failed. Sometimes, none at all. But that is rare know. Oh, I also get a horn sound each time The Bat starts. K When it happened to me, I didn't get a message at all. I just K K got a small flash, as if the splash screen was trying to appear, K then nothing. K Yes, that too. K Uninstalling and reinstalling was the only way I was able to K fix it, however, I did notice one post on The Bat forum which K mentioned that someone else was also experiencing the no start K problem, but with version 2. Not sure how many others have experienced K it. K Another thought... Did you try resetting your default e-mail program K settings in Internet Explorer? Go to Tools, Internet Options, then to K the Programs tab. Choose something other than The Options, then to K Bat on the drop-down K box (like Outlook Options, then to K Express), click Apply, then go back up and choose Options, then to K K The Bat and click Apply again. OK, thanks, I'll try that Out and Back-In strategy. K I know this worked with one of my old K e-mail programs having problems a year or so ago, but I don't know if K it'll help to solve this problem. Worth a try anyway. K As for me, I *hope* the problem doesn't come back. :) I've found some kind of way to get it started. But that's one more hit on productivity around here. Still, I guess I'll be loyal to The Bat and enjoying being part of this kindly Bat family. Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Line lengths and techniques for automatic adjustment
Hello, Urban: U Tuesday, September 9, 2003, David R. Austen wrote: I regret to inform . . . that after using this (generous) advice I am still not getting wrapping of those very long lines of messages to which I am replying. Here is my new, modified template (in part): - - - - Hello, %OFromFName: %ODateEn, %OTimeLongEn, you wrote: %WRAPPED=%QUOTES - - - - - Please tell me if that wrap code in the right position, for example. Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Line lengths and techniques for automatic adjustment
Greetings, In one recent message, this was the approximate length of a single line I received: (say, 107 characters) 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 1234567 Over the years I have learned that it is good to have about 70 characters in a line. (Perhaps that is somewhat subjective; no criticism is intended of those who keep their lines longer.) Anyway, my way of reducing such long lines to 70 characters in my reply/forward/redirect is a bit cumbersome. I don't to it line by line, but even paragraph by paragraph is irksome. It seems that if I do not, these lines will stay very long in the messages received from me. How do other Batters deal with this, please? Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Line lengths and techniques for automatic adjustment
Hello, Leif: Tuesday, September 9, 2003, 4:42:53 PM, you wrote: LG Good question. Generally, I go to the paragraph in question and hit LG ALT-L. Great tip. Thank you much. I'll bet there is somebody out there who knows the real black magic. LG I normally have to do this because while their original text LG was 70 chars, when I reply and their initials plus the makes most LG of them go over 70. Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Start up: The Bat balks
Greetings, Over the past few weeks, I have discovered that the only way to reliably start The Bat (1.62i) is to first start and then exit Outlook (Outlook is not used for my email.) And nearly every time I start The Bat, I see this message: A call to an OS function failed. I then hit Enter and The Bat runs normally. There was a recent message from another user similar to mine, but she quit The Bat, I believe. Have any of you found a (much!) better work-around or a *real* solution? Please don't ask me to upgrade my Bat version if that means I'll run into other dramas. I'll have a very busy week. :-) Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Start up: The Bat balks
Hello, Pixie: P On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:44:16 -0400 GMT, David R. I expect that P Austen I expe P wrote: DRA There was a recent message from another user similar to mine, but she DRA quit The Bat, I believe. Have any of you found a (much!) better DRA work-around or a *real* solution? P Have you considered ditching outlook? (snip) I expect that ditching Outlook may be on the cards one day. Are you suggesting that there is some kind of problem that my be caused by Outlook? Starting and quitting Outlook seems to help me start The Bat, but there is not a simple and exclusive cause and effect relationship. But . . . thank you for the tip on Time and Chaos. David P While this may not be an easy option for you, like The Bat! there are P some really great programs out there that can take the place of P outlook. I'm presently evaluating Time Chaos, one of the few so far P I've found that can sync Pocket PC Palm -- which was one of the MS P strangleholds that I'd rather be rid of. -- Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Start up: The Bat balks
Hello, Thomas: First, a big thank you. We are getting closer to success. You wrote: TF Try this: Close Outlook and The Bat. Open Internet Explorer. Go to TF Tools / Internet Options / Programs. Choose Outlook for Email. TF Click OK. Close IE. Re-open IE. Go to Tools / Internet Options / TF Progams. Choose The Bat! for Email. click OK. Close IE. Open The TF Bat and see whether your problem persists. Done. Now, Outlook seems to be finally irrelevant to the operation of The Bat. Curiously, I still see A call to an OS function failed when I run The Bat NOLOGO. This startup, and the normal (with logo) startup both require an ENTER after I double-click on the icon. I guess I should be happy now. Pigs want wings, too. Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: OT: i don't know you (was: Start up: The Bat balks)
Hello, Thomas: Monday, September 8, 2003, 11:17:21 AM, you wrote: TF Sorry for posting a PM on the list. I replied to your PM, but I have TF been asked by your bot to confirm my address. I regret the inconvenience. Please send me your message with the advice. It will go through now. Yes, the bot asks for a reason. Even your familiar name would suffice, Thomas, telling me who is at the door, so to speak. Please don't be offended. But I guess this is a good illustration of what somebody promised yesterday. To explain, I forgot to create a permission for you when I first wrote to you OL. (The CM bot normally automatically creates a permanent permission when I send a message to somebody new. SMTP problems at my new ISP have stopped that -- for now. (Of course that does not help with those senders who are totally new to me.) I have now created a permission for you manually, Thomas. TF I'm not doing that. You TF want to review your policy for two reasons: TF 1.) You sent me a message to which I replied. I am offended by TF your bot's interference to my attempt at helping you. TF 2.) If you are trying to cut down spam, you will just have confirmed TF your address to the sender. Good point. On very, very rare occasions, a spammer actually asks me for permission! Thomas, aren't there other ways in which spammers can extrapolate, and determine that an address is likely valid? TF And if you're in business, you'll never get new customers... (pause) TF and even new friends will be difficult to get. Now, Thomas, that's below the belt! :-0 I'm rather good looking, and anyway, mother said to be very careful about getting new friends on the Internet. But I think this list should be a safe place. :-) So everybody, come over for lunch at my place today. I'm afraid some dear, old friends will dump me now, per your suggestion. :-) TF I am kind enough to mention this to you, others will just stop TFcommunicating. Seriously, you are kind to take this time to explain this, and alert me to new issues. This spam-killing is a work in progress. Cheers, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Spam
Hello, Paul, all: Programs like ChoiceMail (CM) stop any unknown sender from ever reaching The Bat's Inbox. CM asks those senders with a friendly message (that I myself have written) to state their business. Less than 1% of spammers ever do. I longer have to be distracted by even looking at those spam subject lines, let alone busy myself with the job of deleting. What a relief. And a **great** boost to productivity when spam is about 49% of your incoming mail. DRA Thursday, September 4, 2003, 1:18:08 AM, you wrote: PB Hello Mailing List, PB I am receiving allot of spam. When the messages arrive which I do not PB want I have set up filters to deal with them. All that happens is that PB the senders just change their names of some other element of the PB address and then the messages continue to get past my filters. Can the PB Bat! deal with this kind of Spam or is it necessary to get another PB programme to do this work. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Peter: Thursday, September 4, 2003, 8:37:20 AM, you wrote: PF David, PF On 04-09-2003 14:29, you [D] wrote in PF mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: D CM asks those senders with a friendly message (that I myself have D written) to state their business. Less than 1% of spammers ever do. D I longer have to be distracted by even looking at those spam subject D lines, let alone busy myself with the job of deleting. D What a relief. And a **great** boost to productivity when spam is D about 49% of your incoming mail. PF I would _never_ answer a mail like that - and I would kick anyone off my PF mailing lists that used a thing like that. (Yikes, we're strident on this list today. Please read before kicking us. Perhaps the CM product is not well understood yet.) :-) I pre-configure CM to allow all members of mailing lists I use to waltz in the door unhindered. Naturally that challenge message needs to be very diplomatic. Nobody has ever eventually mentioned to me that they found that offensive. And they receive it only once, at worst. PF Use SpamPal - it's at least as effective, and without hassle for the PF people you are communicating with. So how does SpamPal do it? Please. Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Allie: Thursday, September 4, 2003, 8:33:09 AM, you wrote: (snip) AM I've been annoyed by this sort of system. I expect some people are. On the other hand, I pre-configure permissions for those whom I have **invited** to contact me. Say we exchange business cards in certain situations. They are then not challenged. AM Rule #1 in spam fighting. Don't lose legitimate mail Permissions let in friends and colleagues AM and don't get AM in the way of those sending legitimate mail. and the vast, vast majority of people whom I do **not** know send me only spam. What a pathetic life that must be, sending spam. AM Even though I understand why I'm being asked to click a link or AMwhatever, I still find it annoying. :/ I guess I do too. But as more people are reaching that magical 50% (spam-innocent mail ratio) I expect more people will soon be understanding of this. (As they are when we screen phone calls with an answering machine at home, making them wait 4 rings **every time**, and not just once.) DRA I longer have to be distracted by even looking at those spam subject DRA lines, let alone busy myself with the job of deleting. AM How do you manage with mail from an automated system with no one at the other end to respond to your validation request? A good example of this is with an online purchase where an automated message with registration stuff is sent to you? A permission I can create, in advance, lets in anybody/anything at Jello Computers, for example. AM To each his own, I guess, but I've always felt it best to use a spam AM filter. If you wish to auto-delete most spam, use a less aggressive method in AM the interest of preserving good messages, or filter spam as read to a AM separate folder, then on occasion scan the folder for innocents. Scanning for innocents there is no less a job than scanning the Inbox. But I concede that your way one can save all the distractions (and disgust) for a designated time of the day.) Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Peter: (snip) I appreciate your thoughts everybody, yet, this really is becoming a tempest in a teacup. And it seems that nobody here has had any experience with this system (CM) that is being critiqued with so much gusto. PFI know it is - but why should _I_ - e.g. when helping another PFperson - go through this extra trouble just because that other PFperson has more respect for his time than mine (I know this sounds PFharsh but this is how it comes across to me)? Indeed. Why should you. On the other hand, if we collaborate (in various ways) sometimes there is an eventual pleasant payback. But no, it is not guaranteed that you will get a reward for your trouble, Peter. I certainly hope nobody thinks this indicates I disrespect those who send email. One reward is that we all may eventually be able to answer friends' and colleagues' and even strangers' mail more quickly, and in a happier frame of mind. I think there are many parallels to this in life. One day the shoe (or another shoe somewhat like this one) may be on the other foot. It's a tiny chore, answering that challenge email message. And once only. Ha anybody ever done that with CM? PF Use SpamPal - it's at least as effective, and without hassle for the PF people you are communicating with. I don't think I have ever created hassle for anybody on this list. I would like to know if I have. But has spam ever been a hassle for anybody here? Could a hassle like an occasional challenge message ever begin to compare to spam? Even some close friends do not all give me a key to their house. I guess it is also a hassle to need to ring that doorbell and wait. Every time I visit!! :-) D So how does SpamPal do it? Please. PF Set up Spampal with blacklists and the Bayesian plug-in. Have Spampal PF add a separate X-spampal: spam header and filter on this. A peice of PF cake. Thank you for the helpful explanation about SpamPal. PF I get very few false negatives/positives. Hmmm. And when you do is the shoe not on the other foot then? :-) Anyway, friends, it's over and out for me now. Back to work. Hope this has been helpful and entertaining. By the way, I am also quite experienced with the excellent filtering in The Bat. And still use it often. Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Allie, and all: Thursday, September 4, 2003, 9:11:33 AM, you wrote: AM David R. Austen, [DRA] wrote: DRA Naturally that challenge message needs to be very diplomatic. DRA Nobody has ever eventually mentioned to me that they found that DRA offensive. And they receive it only once, at worst. AM I generally don't tell others I'm displeased or annoyed by something Yes, that's about right. It's natural for many people to hold back when possible, especially for someone who is as gracious and respectful of others, as you seem to be as moderator of this list. But what is the cost of worrying about occasionaly annoying colleagues like you one time with a challenge message, or creating a blanket permission? (I will assume that none of you have ever seen my CM challenge.) The bottom line for me is that my experience with email each day is now a better one. I'm in a better frame of mind if welcome messages (like yours) are not sandwiched between a number of other messages that are are unwelcome and even offensive. For my part, if the challenge were annoying, I would frame my response in terms of the software they use, and not their treatment of me. Like you, I would look for a chance to offer a constructive suggestion. Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Peter: Thursday, September 4, 2003, 10:20:21 AM, you wrote: It's almost as if the anger that should be reserved for the spammers is vented on those who fight back. Like the developers of this software. PF Not disrespect, but more like I don't mind giving you extra work so PF that I may do less work myself or something to that effect. Since when is replying with one-two words (one-time only) considered to be measurable work? That's like saying that it is unfair that you and I are working here (writing this) when many others are only reading this. :-) I see it as an effort for the common good. I would be more than happy to do it for you. Like an unfortunate cost that all might share in (eventually) to avoid a problem that many will share eventually. Sobig, for example. And it might be good for the security of all, if a virus or worm arrives in email spam (that I have not stopped with CM) and then replicates itself and sends itself from my machine. D I don't think I have ever created hassle for anybody on this list. PF Correct. You haven't but not all users of confirmation software are as PF good as you to use it properly. I've been lucky with my training and education, I guess. PF I get very few false negatives/positives. D Hmmm. And when you do is the shoe not on the other foot then? PF I don't understand? Well, beyond the matter of viruses and worms, a false positive or negative likely causes a delay in reading a message. That would be a hassle for people needing a quick response. I can stop using email completely and be sure to never cause a hassle for anybody, ever. I wish you all the best, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: Spam
Hello, Terry: Almost everybody is attacked by the spammers, but I think nobody I know would take offense as quickly as the person mentioned below when the stakes are so high. There are cultural problems that accompany the technology problems. I certainly don't ignore them, but I also assume that the culture of mail and email is slowly evolving. Examples of change (and upset) abound in good old snail mail, too. Thursday, September 4, 2003, 10:31:19 AM, you wrote: (snip) T As to any complaints, I'll share one of my clients' experiences with T you. He was interested in purchasing some property in a new city (new T site for a factory with a budget of over $1 million for the property) T and was given a real estate agent's e-mail address by some business T associate. That real estate company used a some business T challenge/response T solution. My client chose not some business T to do business with them. Or, even use the phone to contact them instead of email? or ask an employee to take care of that? I won't judge this and say that everybody should feel perfectly happy about these C-R systems. Nor do we feel perfectly happy about inoculations before we take trips into jungles. Some people will refuse inoculations; they may miss some nice opportunities for travel because of the offense of that needle. (What would have been the status of smallpox now if all had refused inoculations due to the (infrequent) discomfort of that needle?) T My client was adamant about the way business should be conducted Tand in his mind, it didn't include C/R. Quote from him - They just Ttold me I wasn't important. He certainly takes offense quickly, and he takes it very personally. I guess you'd need to be there to understand his frame of mind. I'm guessing that when he started out in business (if as long ago as I did) he also had none of the benefits of the 'Net. Which he cherry-picks now, no doubt. T I'm not saying that he's right or that he would have ultimately bought T property using that company, but they lost out on even the opportunity T to do business with him. Because of his principles, and his short fuse, he may also have lost the chance to look at a piece of property what might possibly have been the best of all available, and even perhaps a great value. It works both ways. Was that challenge message really worse than leaving a voicemail message over lunch hour (or after hours) and then waiting for an eventual reply? What's in the water some folks are drinking these days? :-) Actually, many of us are offended by high technology of various sorts, and that is OK. But the costs are not all on one-sided. T It was his perception and in business, that's often what ends up as Tbeing most important. I agree with that. Perhaps businesses with so much at stake in one transaction will have more expensive foolproof systems that will look carefully at every piece of new mail to ensure that there is no possible way to miss a legitimate message. But most can't afford to do that, and I think that people will eventually understand this. T Here are two articles that discuss some of the points you raised in T this e-mail and others in the thread. T http://www.politechbot.com/p-04746.html T http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/archives/000389.html I have just read these and appreciate your thoughtfulness in sending them. Yes, It's not an easy job. In fact it's a dirty job dealing with spam. And I guess some of the mud will stick on us when we try to deal with it. Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[5]: Spam
Hello, Bill: Thursday, September 4, 2003, 10:40:42 AM, you wrote: BBTE C/R systems are OK if used reasonably -- and even the challenge BBTE doesn't do much to raise my hackles if it's something used by a BBTE private individual. I have been adamant about telling companies that I BBTE advise NOT to use such a system. It sends an extremely negative BBTE message to potential customers. I guess that generally fits with my views. In commerce, it is a good investment to use **humans** to vet every unknown message, if you can possibly afford to. (snip) Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[6]: Spam [SOT]
Hello, Christopher: 1. With agents like CM there is no third party creating huge blacklists of domains. (They must not be easy to edit on a frequent basis.) 2. It is very rare that I would block an entire domain. 3. With CM, a C/R message pops up (right in my face) showing the response message and I hit a button instantly creating a permission for that person. 4. (Of course you were also flexible and resourceful enough to just pick up the phone when email frustrated you.) Best, David Thursday, September 4, 2003, 11:31:42 AM, you wrote: CB Hi All, CB -Only slightly off topic- T solution. My client chose not to do business with them. My client was T adamant about the way business should be conducted and in his mind, it T didn't include C/R. Quote from him - They just told me I wasn't T important. CB I have just had a similar experience with Ritlabs/cifnet. I CB originally registered TB! on Aug 27, and was interested to find out CB if I would receive a free upgrade to 2.0. I emailed ritlabs, only to CB have my email returned, stating that SpamCop has determined that my CB mail server is a known originator of spam. Same with an email to CB cifnet. CB This was extrememly frustrating, because I had no recourse. I simply CB couldn't contact either company by email. I, of course, have never CB spammed anyone in my life, but I am on a shared web host, and CB apparently one of their clients was the culprit. My host took quick CB steps for me, but this did little to change the fact that I couldn't CB send email to ritlabs. Someone from spamcop replied to my whining, CB stating that there wasn't anything that could be done. Sounds like a CB great service. They are happy to block my email, but 'there's nothing CB that can be done' to unblock it. CB Fortunately for me, cifnet is in Chicago, where I am. So a local call CB did the trick. But the point stands. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Spam
Hello, Granville: I have used ChoiceMail for some months now. I'm quite happy with it. www.digiportal.com About $40.00 USD and worth every penny. (snip) Can the Bat! deal with this kind of Spam or is it necessary to get another programme to do this work. Best regards, David Current version is 2.00 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: TheBat Won't Start - Please Help
Hello, Kim and all: I too have had difficulties getting the Bat to start, and a fresh install did not help much. Here's the workaround I've discovered. I'd be curious about other stories of similar problems, and solutions. I first (usually) need to start Outlook (which I do not use for email, of course) and then exit Outlook. After that the Bat starts reliably. Can anybody explain what might be going on? Best wishes, David Sunday, August 17, 2003, 9:10:05 PM, you wrote: K Mark, K I should have mentioned that I checked both the running applications tab, K as well as the running processes tab -- I make it a practice to do both K out of habit. K I did get the Bat to run again. After uninstalling it, I saved only my K mail directory. I then reinstalled the latest version, and it now opens. K After spending the better part of my weekend fiddling with e-mail K recovery and backups, I am back to using my old e-mail program in K addition to the Bat, as well as trying out the trial version of another K e-mail program. My biggest concern is reliability, and with at least my K copy of the Bat doing unreliable things twice in the last week, I K decided it can't hurt to see what some other programs have to offer. K If I do end up switching to a different e-mail program, there are K certainly some things about the Bat that I'll really miss. Excellent K filtering and flexible templates are two of them. :) K Thanks again for your help. -- Best wishes, David Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TheBat Won't Start - Please Help
Saturday, August 16, 2003, 11:56:08 PM, you wrote: kmc Hi all, I am typing this from the web-based interface of my kmc e-mail account, because I cannot get TheBat to start. (snip) - - - - - - Hello, Kim: I have had the same problem over many months. Even with a reinstall of 1.62I the problem sometimes persists, but it has diminished somewhat now. Here is what I have discovered, and what I do. I have largely overcome whatever it was that caused The Bat to fail at loading. But it should be easier. This are just a temporary methods. I will appreciate better answers from other Batters. (Changing to NOlogo does not seem to help.) Early loading just after reboot has sometimes been helpful. Click or double-click icon AND hit enter key as well. (Message warning pertaining to OS does not mean bat will not load.) Running a memory recovery program like MemTurbo makes a difference. Best wishes, David P.S. If you do reinstall, first empty the Inbox to a new temporary folder in the Bat. The Inbox is the most vulnerable of all folders, methinks. Saturday, August 16, 2003, 11:56:08 PM, you wrote: kmc Hi all, kmc I am typing this from the web-based interface of my e-mail kmc account, because I cannot get TheBat to start. (snip) Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: SMTP authentication difficulty in The Bat
Hello, Alexander, all: I believe I've sent some log extracts to the list recently, so won't do that again today. But I've not had this experience where a message is first rejected and then accepted. I appreciate your analysis. The best thing now I expect is that we find a way to make this information available to future Batters with SMTP issues who may follow in our footsteps, our prop wash, this contrail. Fellow Batters, does one best do that? I sometimes wonder if a blog would be a good intermediate step, at least. Best, David A 25-Jul-2003 03:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (You may remember that I could not achieve the necessary SMTP authentication while _sending mail_ from The Bat through ChoiceMail.) A Just one question - the test mail you were sending with Netscape, did you A send it through ChoiceMail, or directly to the SMTP server? It's as if this Netscape client can work with ChoiceMail (and SMTP) in ways that The Bat cannot. A Hmmm. Thats what I was suspecting. I have the feeling that TB is not as A fault tolerant for misbehaving SMTP-servers, or something. Here's what A happens to me *every* time... A 25.07.2003, 12:12:17: SEND - sending mail messages - 1 messages in queue A 25.07.2003, 12:12:17: SEND - connected to SMTP server A 25.07.2003, 12:12:17: SEND - authenticating (plain)... A 25.07.2003, 12:12:17: SEND - Server reports error. The response is: Incorrect authentication data A 25.07.2003, 12:12:17: SEND - authenticating (login)... A 25.07.2003, 12:12:18: SEND - sending message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] A 25.07.2003, 12:12:18: SEND - message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent (1034 bytes) A 25.07.2003, 12:12:18: SEND - connection finished - 1 messages sent A The message is sent, but only after an initial error. It would be A interesting to see what the server actually says, but I don't know how to A intercept the command/reply exchange. -- Best regards, David Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: SMTP authentication difficulty in The Bat
Hello, Terry: Thanks much for this wonderful explanation. Now, how do we get all this into a knowledge base for the benefit of other Batters in the future? (I'll assume that the use of SMTP authentication will only grow.) Let me read it twice again and we'll see if I can fully grok it. :-) Seriously, I'll keep it in a file for any similar event in the future. In my case, I POP my mail from one server and send through another. So that box Use Settings of Mail Retrieval will go unchecked. I thank you again, and wish you a fine weekend. David Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 5:59:44 PM, you wrote: T Hi David, T Glad to know that you can bypass ChoiceMail and it will work. That T just seemed like a lot of unnecessary overhead. Actually, I have had that box Use Settings of Mail Retrieval ticked for some time and that does not help. But it makes me curious about the purpose of this box, and the actual affect this would have. BTW, I also tried POP authentication and that did not help. T TB SMTP Authentication window presents several different layers of T authentication. Pop before SMTP is a totally distinct thing from RFC T 2554 Authentication. There's a brief explanation of it here. T http://www.azc.com/htmls/faqs/pop_before_smtp.html T In TB Help under SMTP Authentication, there is a good explanation of T RFC 2554 Authentication and the optional use of MD5 with it. T All of these depend on the server being set up to use it. For T example, you can't force a server to use MD5 when the server is not T set up for it. T When you use RFC 2554 Authentication, you must supply a username and T password to access the SMTP server. By checking the box Use Settings T of Mail Retrieval you are telling TB to use the username and password T that you have in the POP3 section as the username and password for RFC T 2554 authentication when you are sending mail. This saves you from T having to type the info in twice. T In some instances, you may have a different username and password for T sending mail. I actually use this feature quite a lot. It's a long T and boring story, so I'll spare you, but I have a backup e-mail server T that I use to send mail only when my primary server is down. I just T change smtp servers and check the Use specific settings and I am T good to go. Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: SMTP authentication difficulty in The Bat
Hello, Alexander: In the case of the Netscape mail client, I set the Outgoing server name to the ChoiceMail proxy server: 127.0.01. I.e. not to the (direct connection) SMTP address at SBC (DSL) that I was eventually forced to use for The Bat. In Netscape, along with that 127.0.01, I also provided the username that corresponds to my DSL account at SBC. In the beginning Netscape would also ask me for a password before proceeding, but eventually that stopped -- likely after I adjusted cookie acceptance settings somewhat. It's as if this Netscape client can work with ChoiceMail (and SMTP) in ways that The Bat cannot. Here's one question I should have asked much earlier. SBC offers support for customers using one of several (American) famous-name mail clients but not The Bat. Is there one of those that closely resembles The Bat for the purposes discussed above and over recent days? Best regards, David A 23-Jul-2003 20:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (You may remember that I could not achieve the necessary SMTP authentication while _sending mail_ from The Bat through ChoiceMail.) A Just one question - the test mail you were sending with Netscape, did you A send it through ChoiceMail, or directly to the SMTP server? Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: SMTP authentication difficulty in The Bat
Hello Allie, MAU, Mary, Terry, Peter and Stefan: Thank you for your kind assistance. (You may remember that I could not achieve the necessary SMTP authentication while _sending mail_ from The Bat through ChoiceMail.) It looks like I MAY have solved the problem now, in 2 steps. First, I set both Send and Receive Mail to the new (DSL) ISP: smtp.sbcglobal.yahoo.com. (Both hard worked fine before, set to Choicemail's proxy server, 127.0.01.) Sending mail now finally would work. Second, I switched Receive Mail BACK to 127.0.01 (Choicemail) Now, I apparently still have spam protection thanks to Choicemail AND also outgoing SMTP authentication. With many thanks, David Austen Current version is 1.62r | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: XML Address Book Format
Hello, Spike, all:
Obviously I know better than to use Outlook for email, but I still use
Outlook's address book and calendar etc. because these work so well with
my pocket PC.
1. So, am I still vulnerable in ways that you mention?
2. Does Norton AV not do an adequate job of detecting Bugbear and Yaha?
3. (I have no plans to use instant messaging. Thanks for reminding me
- WHY not!)
Best,
David Austen
Friday, January 03, 2003, 10:33:48 AM, you wrote:
S Hello M. Evans,
S On or about Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 12:17:36GMT -0700
S (which was 2:17 PM in the tropics where I live) M. Evans
S scribbled:
ME That strikes me as pretty preposterous. XML files are ASCII
ME files and it would be awfully hard for a virus to hide in
ME one.
S ..and just as simple for a virus to READ and attack USING THEM...
S I wasn't saying anything about XML per-se. My point was that
S making an _Address Book_ more standard allows it to be targeted
S by any virus. I have DELETED MS Outhouse AND the Windows Address
S Book {WAB} entirely from my system, due to this exact
S vulnerability. I don't even run anti-virus anymore, as I can't
S stand the performance hit of 15-20% of my systems resources. I
S acquired and use TB! for the very reason that it is (thus far)
S immune to known viral attacks.
S I'm not stupid enough to execute any file that could be
S dangerous, which is the only way something arriving in my e-mail
S could do any damage while using TB! If you foolishly allow
S BugBear or Yaha to somehow run on your system, it DOES target the
S TB! address book! Fair warning! I have worked on 32 systems
S this past week alone that are infected with Yaha, and three of
S them were TB! equipped systems, but the virus came in through AIM
S or MSN IM and were accepted and run by OPERATOR ERROR.
S BTW, SOPHOS has an automated removal tool for the YAHA virus at;
S http://www.sophos.com/tools/rmyahsfx.exe
S It's a lot easier than the detailed instructions (3-5 printed
S pages) for removal offered by other AV vendors I have found. Just
S make sure you download it on an _UNINFECTED_ machine before you
S use it!! It has saved me hours of registry editing and file
S search and deletion. The only thing you have to do is delete the
S virus code from the ?:\Windows\System folder.
--
Best wishes,
David
http://zillionbucks.com -- Web hosting for the creative industry
Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Upgrading OS, adding a drive and downloading the latest Bat.
Greetings, all: I would appreciate your thoughts on this. I expect it will be a good idea to upgrade my PC (98SE) to XP in the near future. At the same time, I want to upgrade my version of Bat; I am still using v. 1.53d. I am contemplating the following strategy: Have a new hard disk installed (it would be D:) and use that new drive as the default drive and boot XP each time. My existing software would remain on the C drive, unless and until I decide on the migration of some software. Eventually I would remove the OS from that C drive. But I think I would download and then install a late (latest beta?) version of The Bat on the D: drive. My intention is to minimize risk as much as possible -- as long as I am going to the expense of buying an additional drive. Thoughts, anybody? Best regards, David Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Tuning up: a standard template for replying to TBUDL posts
Hello, Thomas: Thank you for this. I'll tune it up now. David TF Hello David, TF On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:41:31 -0500 GMT (04/11/02, 05:41 +0700 GMT), TF David R. Austen wrote: DH -- ((this is two dashes then a space followed by a Return)) Best regards, I hope this is fine. Thank you very much for your able coaching. -- Best regards, David TF It should be dashdashspaceenter. You left out the space at the TF end. TF To see the difference, hit the reply key on your message (everything TF below this cut mark is still copied into the reply) and mine (the TF reply is cut at the cut mark). -- Best regards, David Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: sorry about the top-post
Hello, Thomas: Thank you very much. Your instructions were very clear -- and I broke new ground today creating a special TBUDL Reply template that guards against inadvertent top-posting. Here it is, from TBUDL in my address book: Hello, %OFromFName: Best regards, %FromFName Best wishes, David Sunday, November 03, 2002, 12:58:40 AM, you wrote: TF Hello David, TF On Sat, 2 Nov 2002 07:30:20 -0500 GMT (02/11/02, 19:30 +0700 GMT), TF David R. Austen wrote: This suggests I might want to create a special procedure for all replies to messages on this list. TF If you do not use any special AB templates (and do not create folder TF templates, which should be used in special circumstandes only), TB TF will use the account templates. These contain the cut mark (a.k.a. TF signature delimiter) already, so you don't really need to do anything TF if you don't want to. Please, where do I start? TF What I did, I created an addressbook entry for this list. TF Addressbook icon / Create a new contact icon. TF I filled in only two fields on the first tab: TF Display name as: TBUDL TF Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TF (no quote marks, in both cases). TF This is how you create a new entry. Now you want to create a special TF template for replying to this list. You go to the Reply tab (still in TF the addressbook), click opn [x] Use a specific and put your TF template in there. It is blank now, so to start with, you can cp your TF account template into it. TF The account's reply template you'll find under Account / Properties / TF Templates (click on the +) / Reply. (I know. This is a Bat101 question of course. I should know better. Just a couple of quick hints on strategy, please.) TF The above should give you an idea. This is list is Bat101. Please TF advise if you have further questions. Best regards, David http://zillionbucks.com -- Web hosting for the creative industry Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Tuning up: a standard template for replying to TBUDL posts
Hello, Dierk: Sunday, November 03, 2002, 11:52:24 AM, you wrote: DH Hello David! DH On Sunday, November 3, 2002 at 5:39:09 PM you wrote: DH the template below DH Let`s refine that a little bit ((comments in double breaks)): Hello, %OFromFName: DH ((^ Why that?)) DH %QUOTES ((that puts the message you reply to in your reply)) DH %CURSOR ((putting you one line beneath the quoted material)) DH ((don`t forget to manually edit the citation)) DH -- ((this is two dashes then a space followed by a Return)) Best regards, %FromFName I hope this is fine. Thank you very much for your able coaching. -- Best regards, David http://zillionbucks.com -- Web hosting for the creative industry Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: sorry about the top-post
Friday, November 01, 2002, 7:07:06 PM, you wrote: TM The one you want to watch out for is the 'Cut' mark. I think that is TM part of the list rules... :-] (snip) Hello, all: This suggests I might want to create a special procedure for all replies to messages on this list. Please, where do I start? (I know. This is a Bat101 question of course. I should know better. Just a couple of quick hints on strategy, please.) Grovelling, David Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: very ot: what antivirus program?
Hello, Barry2 and all: I am successfully using Norton Anti-Virus and ChoiceMail (to catch spam) with The Bat. NAV quarantines a worm or virus about once a day. Only disappointment is that the NAV subscription price seems to have (virtually) gone through the roof over the past year. Perhaps because I just had to buy a whole new product from Norton, NAV 2002. Your experiences with NAV anybody? Best regards, David Wednesday, October 30, 2002, 2:05:17 PM, you wrote: B Hello Melissa, B Wednesday, October 30, 2002, 8:52:23 AM, you wrote: -- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Inbox appears empty this morning
Hello, all: Tuesday, September 10, 2002, 2:47:20 PM, you wrote: TF Hello David, TF On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:04:43 -0400 GMT (10/09/02, 22:04 +0700 GMT), TF David R. Austen wrote: DRA Yesterday, I had a few problems with my system (Win98SE) and scan disk DRA ran once or twice. When I powered up this morning the Bat's Inbox was DRA completely empty. No other folder seems to have been affected; TF I don't know whether Scandisk has the ability to make files disappear. TF However, I had this problem once with a folder, and it turned out that TF one message contained a virus - I had just updated my virus software TF and the virus hadn't been caught before. PC-Cillin put the whole .tbb TF file in quarantine. TF TF Check whether this was the case. OK. I see many files were quarantined by NAV at 22:25 yesterday. NAV is pretty active because it checks all e-mail, but this high number seems quite unusual. Still, the number is much smaller than the number of messages that are missing. But you are suggesting I might just find one large file in quarantine, eh? They are all numbered quarantined files (not named) so I suppose it is difficult to ID them. Perhaps I could attempt repairs. If I do a repair and restore, I suppose only **Inbox** will be affected by restoring messages.tbi .tbb? Thank you, Thomas, Roelof. Best regards, David Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Inbox appears empty this morning
Good morning, all: Tuesday, September 10, 2002, 3:06:24 PM, Roelof wrote: RO Hallo David, RO Op dinsdag 10 september 2002, 19:06:28, schreef David R. Austen: I then renamed (and so hid) messages(no file extension). When the Bat restarted it did create another file with the name, messages. But that is also now still empty. RO There ought to be two of those messages files, one with a tbi RO extension and one with a tbb extension. If your explorer is set to RO don't show extensions it should say something like TBB file in the RO 'file-type' column. Yes, it did and does show the file type. Cheers. RO (I'm using a Dutch Windows version, so I'm RO guessing about the English) RO However, the only places where your messages can be within TB are the RO messages.tbb and the Trash folder. Since you didn't mention trash, I RO suppose there wasn't an extraordinary amount of messages. Yes, good idea. I have now checked Trash and it seems quite normal - just a few messages put there each day, and not those hundreds of September messages that are now missing. RO Therefore RO the only place should be messages.tbb. My inbox contains about 150 RO undeleted and 900 deleted messages (that's why regularly compressing RO is a good idea) and is about 22 MB. Mine is 2.03 mb, this morning. (That's normal for just 1.5 days of messages) RO What's the size of your messages.tbb file (also the renamed one) that RO ought to give you an idea about the number of messages, not counting RO large attachments. I found no .tbb file yesterday morning when I discovered my Inbox empty. I then made a copy of the existing .tbi file (17kb). Now there are two new files (tbi, tbb), and I am still receiving mail normally. Your question: If I am not mistaken, I have kept the Inbox set to compress the Inbox folder each time I quit The Bat. But I do not regularly compress the *other* mail folders. RO Compressing the inbox on exit is a must, you can see that on mine. (I RO do compress on exit) But you should consider it for all folders that RO regularly have messages deleted. OK. And my Inbox is still set to compress. Any other ideas about finding those hundreds of Inbox messages? RO Scandisk creates file.chk ( is a four digit number) files in RO the root when finding errors on a disk. You could try opening those. RO When they're containing messages you'd see that soon enough, since TB RO doesn't encode it's message base. Finally, looking at Windows 98SE recycle bin, I see messages.tbi files there three times. Once at 12:53 yesterday. Of course, I would never put any messges files in recycle. I wonder what has happened 3x. I appreciate your kind assistance here. Best regards, David -- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Inbox appears empty this morning
Greetings, all: Yesterday, I had a few problems with my system (Win98SE) and scan disk ran once or twice. When I powered up this morning the Bat's Inbox was completely empty. No other folder seems to have been affected; other folders located beneath Inbox in the hierarchy are fine. I am also able to successfully POP new mail this morning. Refresh makes no difference. Can anybody suggest a plan to recover that mislaid mail? I imagine it will be important to first isolate the most recent e-mail (today's) before I go much further. Thank you in advance, David R. Austen (Registered user, version 1.53d) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Launch Failure
Hello, Curt: This won't help you now, but I notice that my local computer retailer has stern warning for all who walk up to the counter. They say there are numerous SW problems due to XP issues and that they will not offer any SW support for boxes running XP. Even when they have sold the box and software installed. It is a very generalized warning. Best regards, David Wednesday, July 17, 2002, 12:46:23 PM, you wrote: C A bug report failed to get a response, so I'll see if anyone here has C had this problem--and a solution: C TheBat! refuses to launch under WinXPpro. The splash screen displays, C TheBat! appears in the task bar, but both disappear after a few C seconds, and TheBat! never completely starts. I had reinstalled 1.60c, installed 1.60q--all with no C improvement. C Once was I would have this problem now and the--rebooting always C solved it. Now it's a solid problem. C Any ideas? C TIA... C Curt C C Current Ver: 1.61 C FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com C Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] C Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com C Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] C TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] C Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/ -- Current Ver: 1.61 FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Bug Reports: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/
Disappearing mail from INbox
Hello, When I last shut down my computer, it locked up, forcing me to quit with a Ctrl-Alt-Del. Starting it up this morning, I find that everything has disappeared from my IN box. (Only this morning's new mail is there now.) Any clues as to where I should begin looking for those hundreds of messages? Thank you, David -- Best regards, David mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zillionbucks.com - Web hosting for savvy photographers -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: Disappearing mail from INbox
Hello Syafril, Thanks so very much. I'll try this today. David Tuesday, November 13, 2001, 6:40:38 AM, you wrote: SH On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 at 06:36:44 GMT -0500 (13/11/2001 18:36 where you SH think I live) DavidR.Austen=[DRA]wroteto SH [EMAIL PROTECTED] : DRA When I last shut down my computer, it locked up, forcing me to quit DRA with a Ctrl-Alt-Del. SH Sometimes, this action makes message index courupted :-( DRA Starting it up this morning, I find that everything has disappeared DRA from my IN box. (Only this morning's new mail is there now.) SH Check out your inbox folder, any *.temp there ? SH TB! having facility self correction, you must wait a moment while TB! SH reindexing the messages. DRA Any clues as to where I should begin looking for those hundreds of DRA messages? SH Fast route, try as follows: SH - quit TB! SH - using Windows Explorer copy all files from Inbox folder to temporary SH folder. SH - Delete file messages.tbi SH - Run TB! again -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zillionbucks.com - Web hosting for savvy photographers -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: OT: Malaysian?
Hello Karin, You can be certain that it is either Malaysian or Indonesian. David Saturday, November 10, 2001, 8:53:00 PM, you wrote: KS Sorry for this off-topic message, but quite a number of KS langages are being spoken here, and I'd like some help. I KS got a message that I can't read: KShai maya KSsaya sangat minat bila maya senyum KSdi harap senyum selalu KS It might even be spam, but it doesn't look like it. No ads, KS no url... KS - K - -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zillionbucks.com - Web hosting for savvy photographers -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: computer freezes during check mail
Hello ::Andrew::, Friday, September 07, 2001, 7:57:10 PM, you wrote: A -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- A Hash: SHA1 A Hello tbudl, A Perhaps I'm still on a slightly older version of TB! but I've A noticed increasingly that when TB check mails the whole pc freezes A for about 4 seconds. Anyone else noticed that? That also happens when I launch my dialup, without TB running. In my case, TB seemed to be the application that most often (but not exclusively) caused my pentium to freeze and crash. I eliminated the difficulty by uninstalling almost all of Norton System works. I was happy to do that because NSW affected much more than TB. (Now I am looking for advice on reinstalling some of NSW, in a more usable way. David Austen A - -- A Best regards, A ::Andrew:: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A London UK A http://at.omic.co.uk A Using The Bat! 1.53d on Windows 98 4.10 Build A A -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- A Version: PGP 6.5i A iQA/AwUBO5le1yaOomOViTk3EQJhIQCeNkQ0rQTMm2hpfaB2s8sS7Ybcm4wAoMKO A YF7BBgbWaGoy7FPwvpZCg36/ A =5Ldl A -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d
Re[3]: Virus
Hello Raj, Wednesday, September 05, 2001, 11:24:29 PM, you wrote: R For everybody information : I just ran Mcafee on TB specifically and my entire Hard Disk. R Glad to report that no Virus was detected in TB (or my machine) And I received this message from somebody yesterday who received mail from me on a list I use. I never send attachments to that list and it is exceedingly rare for me to accept an attachment. Tic * eManager Notification ** Tic Tic Recipient, Content filter has detected a message potentially containing a Tic Melissa virus. Tic Destination mailbox(es): [EMAIL PROTECTED] But then Norton AV found me to be clean, too. What gives David Austen. Bat 1.53d Tic * eManager Notification ** Tic Recipient, Content filter has detected a message potentially containing a Tic Melissa virus. Tic Destination mailbox(es): [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d
Re[2]: The Sent Folder
Hello Dierk, and all: Tuesday, September 04, 2001, 3:03:46 PM, you wrote: (Warning: This message is virtually a new topic.) I guess there are good reasons why people would not want to keep these SENT messages. But I find them very useful. Sometimes I change (improve) the subject line and then the SENT messages allow me to find a topic more easily. Also, the SENT messages often are more or less equal to a subset of the most important or personal messages I receive, because I acknowledge them. And of course only this folder contains everything I have written myself. When I have lost other folders in the past (due to a bug??) the sent folder constituted a very important backup collection. I would be interested to hear how others (who want to keep all SENT messages) handle such messages, using filtering or other procedures. Indeed, if there were just one folder I would keep forever it might be the SENT folder contents. David Austen DH That's what I do for some messages. Complimentary I have set the Sent DH folder to delete messages after two days. DH - -- DH Dierk Haasis DH http://www.Write4U.de Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d
Re[2]: Calendar To Do program with the Bat?
Hello Chema, Tuesday, September 04, 2001, 4:02:47 PM, you wrote: CB Last time I saw it, Palm Desktop was free-download, although theory CB says it must only be used with Palm devices This intrigued me, so I went there to see. And found this: Palm Desktop 4.0.1 installer only supports handhelds from Palm, Inc. It seems they are saying not to try to use with a cheap generic device. But, let me assume that all Palm functionality should also be available on *any* *desktop* computer that supports the cradle. Thoughts? Anybody know why this is not a viable sample for us, before we buy a device from Palm? Frankly, I am not sure there is a role for a Palm or any other PDA in my life. But this might actually be a good selling tool for Palm, aimed at skeptics. Like me. I'll let you know what I find and experience. Others with comments? David CB http://www.palm.com/support/downloads/win_desktop.html CB I actually use it as my contact manager, right-clicking on contacts to CB send mail with TB. CB -- CB Chema Berian CB mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CB Spanish GDUTB Moderator CB Subscriptions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CB Using The Bat! 1.53o on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 CB TB Tip of the Moment: The little arrow in the corner of envelope CB of a message means that the message has been replied. You can quickly CB find the reply by pressing Ctrl+Backspace. CB PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d
Re[2]: Not to me filters
Hello Nick, Wednesday, August 29, 2001, 1:33:05 PM, you wrote below: presence of the letter e anywhere, Now this piece puzzles me. :-) David NA Hello Tim, NA On Wednesday, August 29, 2001, at 9:31:11 PM -0700, you wrote: So should the filtering strings contain STRINGS LOCATIONPRESENCE [EMAIL PROTECTED] recipient no [EMAIL PROTECTED] recipient no [EMAIL PROTECTED] recipient no [EMAIL PROTECTED] recipient no So it will match on Not to email1 AND not to email2 AND not to email3 AND not to email4? NA I think it's preferable if you set up a filter, close to the top of the NA Filter List, that catches all the E-Mail that includes those addresses NA and filters those messages to their correct Folders. Then, as the very NA last Filter in your List, you compose a Spam Filter that will look for NA the presence of the letter e anywhere, and have those messages NA filtered into a Spam Folder. -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New install in a new machine: moving or copying message folders?
Hello TBUDL, Some weeks ago, I moved to another computer, with The Bat. I would like to learn how to copy over some of the folders of messages left behind on the old machine, but not every folder. I have attempted this and have experimented for some time but nothing seems to work for me. Does anybody know the trick? BTW, I have not attempted to create a new, additional user account or message base. After upgrading to v. 1.35, the main user account in the old machine would stop The Bat from launching, and so I eventually did a new install of 1.53d. in a new machine. Thank you in advance, David Austen -- Best regards, David mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re[2]: ALL MAIL in my BAT InBox has disappeared (except very latest download)
Thank you Nick, and Marck, Monday, June 25, 2001, 2:35:06 PM, you wrote: NA -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- NA Hash: SHA1 NA On Monday, June 25 2001 at 11:22 AM PST, David Robert Austen wrote: What is the world can be going on with The Bat here in my sys? Everything in my BAT InBox has disappeared again (except very latest download). NA What have you selected under View/Display? Thank you, Nick. Good question. I have checked View/Display in recent days. It has been kept set to All Messages. By any means, I have just finally succeeded in reloading The Bat. I only succeeded in doing that after uninstalling the previous install of The Bat. Thank you for your kind response. David -- Best regards, Davidmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bat nearly done in after disk defragmentation
This morning (after months of successful use) I experienced a substantial problem with The Bat. The Bat worked just fine for months, until I defragmented my hard drive yesterday. Can anybody shed some light on this? This message was displayed this morning: "Exception Eaddress violation in module THEBAT.EXE at 0018F5B7. Access violation at address 005907FB. Read of address . " I attempted a reinstall and then a (new) install in a different directory and finally I think I have it working, but I am not yet able to get access to my existing mail folders and messages. (Fortunately, I have been carefully backing them up.) At this point the solution seems to be a matter of adding that original User (and folders) as a new User I have created in the new installation of The Bat. (Or just choosing the "old" User instead of the new one.) Can anybody shed some light on this? Thank you. David Austen -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
