Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Edvinas, > I've tried 40tude dialog and it blew me away! Good bye Forté Agent. > Multiple languages support is amazing in that program. Full unicode support, > it picks needed charset for you by analysing what characters are in the > message. Perfect! But threading, specially compared to TB, is pure crap! -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Greg, > ... but VA you could save the results in a > visual container called Bookmarks. You could save up to 20 bookmarks, > and refer to them at any time without running the search again. Saving searches was just one of the possibilities of Bookmarks (or of bookmarking messages), there were other way of bookmarking a message, even just manually by hitting B while the message was selected. One real good think about bookmarks, as compared to Colour Groups, was that a message could be bookmarked to any number of bookmark sets. Why can't a message be be "Important" and "for Reference" at the same time? One advantage VA's search and bookmarks was that you could search mail and news simultaneously and bookmarks could include both mail and news messages. > If I have 2 tools I use a lot like email & a news reader, I would > like to have as similar an interface as possible because it > minimizes my mistakes. For example Ctl+N with TB is new email, > whereas Ctrl+N with Agent is send message. If the difference was just a shortcut it wouldn't be too bad :-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat (...)
Sunday, January 19, 2003, 11:15:50 AM,Miguel wrote: MAU> I know I could and I'm sure there are interesting discussions going MAU> on, but I just can't be in every place I'd like to. :-( Yes sometimes I feel there's not enough hours in the day to do everything and read all the posts too - so I just pop in both TBUDL and TBOT as I can do in between doing all the other stuff. I'm sure I miss even more interesting things but... ;-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Allie, On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, at 14:06:30 GMT -0500 (1/20/2003, 1:06 PM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I did have a look at VA. When? I should explain why I decided to switch to TB from VA. First and foremost VA quit development although is going open source on SourceForge. The last I checked the open source initiative has struggled a bit. Second VA's editor did not wrap properly which caused problems on signature verification with PGP. Miguel was the one who talked me into TB. I'm glad he did. > It was similar to Forte' Agent. I do not agree. VA has a steep learning curve into more advance feature set like TB, but IMHO to this day had the simplest approach to email out of the box. The default folder for inbound AND outbound messages was the "Messages" folder. So in a single email with multiple recipients VA would start the thread and maintain a record in one location, the "Messages" folder. If you had no rules for inbound (i.e.filters) that applied, the receipt of a reply went to the "Message" folder. So VA maintained a thread without the user intervention on simple email conversation without user's intervention. Both TB, Agent, & BTW OE maintain separate folders for inbound and outbound messages. > A nice application for News . and btw, e-mail. I use Agent for news. Agent does news well. I can't speak with a lot of experience with email, but the main reason I continued to look for an email client was Agent can NOT handle multiple email accounts. You had to have multiple instances of Agent, or use an external program. IIRC the external program most recommended at the time was Hamster. Anyhow about that time I was starting to look at Eudora and Pegasus when Miguel lead me to TB. > Though the e-mail support may be adequate for many, it's hardly as > robust as what TB! provides. I agree TB is better than VA in ways most TB users feel very strongly about. I include myself in TB email users, so pun was intended. :-) BTW I do NOT consider myself an experience TB user because from what I can see I've hardly scratched the surface. The ability to learn TB's advance features is the single most important reason why I decided to go with TB. I had an upside to use TB with no ceiling in sight. TB's most evident benefit is the editor. I hope I don't get jumped on here after reading all the threads on editors because this is MY OPINION. Now TB developers are providing options to users with the editor. I think that is great for those options to exist for those other users with different opinions. Even though I've barely scratched the surface TB's filtering coupled with macro and regex capabilities probably just plain BLOWS the competition away. This is the ceiling I couldn't see that I referred to above. TB's "View thread by" options is extremely handy when members of certain mail lists use clients or post via web without the proper headers. VA's message management was better. In VA you had a "prune" option. Very similar to folder properties in TB. The big difference was even though a message was removed from the message base, removed messages were stored in a file rather than trashed without the ability to recover. You had the ability to restore from the file which I did use a few times. I have not used the external program MailBag, so the functionality with MailBag probably far exceeds VA, however it is separate. TB search capabilities are fine and on the face the search features are more extensive in TB than VA, but VA you could save the results in a visual container called Bookmarks. You could save up to 20 bookmarks, and refer to them at any time without running the search again. In TB you can rerun the last 9 searches, but how many times do you have to re-run a search with slightly different criteria to find what you are looking for? This can be replaced in TB with color groups and search function. > Miguel is already using TB! for reading news and feels that it already > has most of what's needed for news reading. It's this perception > that's the problem. What is your problem with this perception? The fact the individual is complacent with accepting the feature set that may be less than what it could be? I do not understand your statement. I look at computers and the software as a tool. Some tools I use more than others, so the feature set is more important to me. If I have 2 tools I use a lot like email & a news reader, I would like to have as similar an interface as possible because it minimizes my mistakes. For example Ctl+N with TB is new email, whereas Ctrl+N with Agent is send message. I'd rather use the keyboard than the mouse, so different short cut keys can be a problem because I have to slow down and think what program I'm using. > I disagree strongly with this and this is likely why I have the > opinion that no Windows client combo out there really does news and > e-mail WELL. I think this is a matter of opinion which is a fun
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:59:51 -0600 GMT(20/01/2003, 6:59 PM + GMT), Greg Strong wrote: GS> People by their own experience relate to OE. This GS> argument of bloatware is nothing more than hog wash! VA GS> was (is) not bloat ware. And nor is Ameol, which is the other mail/conferencing program I use. I miss the ability to put things into italics and bold which I do find useful and would like in TB! And I use Agent for newsgroups, BTW. Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 -- Best regards, myobmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Greg Strong [GS] wrote:'
GS> VA was (is) not bloat ware.
I did have a look at VA.
It was similar to Forte' Agent. A nice application for News .
and btw, e-mail. Though the e-mail support may be adequate for many,
it's hardly as robust as what TB! provides.
I do remember incidents where Agent users thought it provided better
e-mail functionality than TB!. Perhaps for their purposes, yes. Sure,
no problem.
Miguel is already using TB! for reading news and feels that it already
has most of what's needed for news reading. It's this perception
that's the problem. I disagree strongly with this and this is likely
why I have the opinion that no Windows client combo out there really
does news and e-mail WELL.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: My Public Keys - http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html
iD8DBQE+LEi0V8nrYCsHF+IRArSJAJwNv5V7YD29YpjwV+KzhdtdHtpXYgCg8HS/
O0yiZvUVeHFORuZ7kKVxIYg=
=7Txg
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Miguel, On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, at 15:01:11 GMT +0100 (1/20/2003, 8:01 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Can you think of one that does both well? :) > Yes, and I am sure Greg Strong will agree with me, Virtual Access. It > did (does) e-mail and news, plus Compuserve and CIX. Virtual Access was (is) a GREAT program. I went from 1 program, VA, that did email, news, CIS forums. Now I use 3. The plus of using more programs is it broadens the user's perspective. The negative is the user doesn't learn the programs as well, or it takes much longer to learn because there is more to learn. People by their own experience relate to OE. This argument of bloatware is nothing more than hog wash! VA was (is) not bloat ware. -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/4 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Allie, > Can you think of one that does both well? :) Yes, and I am sure Greg Strong will agree with me, Virtual Access. It did (does) e-mail and news, plus Compuserve and CIX. I will only say one more thing, and for the last time, about this e-mail and news integration issue. As you know, I *am already* using TB for news, so I personally don't care if TB really incorporates that or not. From the point of view of the functionality of the client program (i.e. TB), what is the big difference of this mail list and a newsgroup? Basically the protocols used. You use POP to connect to your POP server and collect (from you POP mailbox) the messages, and SMTP connect to your SMPT server to send. While if this list was a newsgroup you would use NNTP to connect to your news server for both collecting and sending. But threading, filtering, templates, colour groups, etc., etc., can be and are the same. And I am proving that point with my setup. What MailTraq's News<->Mail gateway "black box" does for me is basically to convert from one protocol to another. What other functionality would the client program (TB) need if an account was created for news instead of e-mail?. Yes, of course, downloading the list of groups from the server and allowing you to subscribe and un-subscribe. What else, perhaps downloading headers only? Messages Dispatcher does already on POP mailboxes, it shouldn't be that difficult to adapt it. And I haven't mentioned IMAP which maybe much more "similar" to NEWS. To finish, I think and believe that The Bat would be a very good news reader (it is :) without having to put much effort in development. Most of the things needed are there already, I really believe so. I *do* use TB for news, and quite satisfactorily, so I'll leave the news yes news no "battle" to others. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Miguel A. Urech [MAU] wrote:'
MAU> Isn't "none" too "Black" (or white)? Wouldn't a shade of gray like
MAU> "only some", or "few" or... ? ;-)
Can you think of one that does both well? :)
I think you'd have to go looking in the Linux/UNIX direction at apps
like Mutt and eMacs. However, those are long standing, well supported
OSS efforts, and can't be compared to private ventures as TB! with a
small development staff behind it.
MAU> And a very valid one. But just as valid as mine if I think that
MAU> TB developers are "defocusing" by devoting time and resources by
MAU> "improving" RTV to show _plain_text_messages_ with *fake* pretty
MAU> colours and fonts that the originator never intended,
I disagree. It helps me and many others to differentiate between
quoted and new text, thus making readability a lot better. Control is
conferred on me the reader when doing this. With HTML, it's you, the
sender, who determines the fonts and backgrounds I read your mail with
(a terrible thing). These issues are all about e-mail and reading
them, so efforts made to improve on this is definitely not defocusing
on the part of TB! development.
Your point about it not being the way the author intended it is a weak
one. I'm writing this using the monospaced font Pragmata, size 12. I
don't expect you to use the same font or font size.
MAU> or by devoting time to a spam plugin API to enable a few to have
MAU> fun developing spam filters when there are already very good
MAU> anti-spam tools out there
I agree with this one, even though spam filtering has everything to do
with e-mail.
MAU> [...] or to allow the use of an alternate or external editor when
MAU> TB's one "is supposed to be the best",
;) This is again very relevant to e-mail. Trying to develop the apps
so that as many users as possible can comfortably compose their
messages is not defocusing. Developing a newsreader plug-in for TB!
is. It has nothing to do with e-mail. It does have to do with
marketing and the decision seems to have been made in the newsreader
plugins favour so...
MAU> or to PGP8 (how many TB users use/need PGP and, of those, how
MAU> many need PGP8), or to improving IMAP support, which I don't care
MAU> about, and not to extended MAPI which would be more useful to me,
MAU> or :-)
All these things are relevant to e-mail . TB! *is* an e-mail
client.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: My Public Keys - http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html
iD8DBQE+KtbFV8nrYCsHF+IRArP1AKDo6Lhj7e6Rb4hLYg5k60TZcia3IACgwZDb
m9LPhhPhC19sUc+zQabSYMg=
=PG+K
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:14:03 +0100 GMT (19/01/03, 18:14 +0700 GMT), Miguel A. Urech wrote: >>> I'm not on TBOT. :-( >> >> Your loss! ;-) > Maybe, but I am already on TBOT (Too "Bany" Other Lists :) I see. It is your choice then. There are still a lot of lists out there that I would be interested in, but time is limited, so everyone has to assign preferences and make choices. Such is life. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone. -- Andy Rooney Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Allie, > But none seem to do both well when they support both. Isn't "none" too "Black" (or white)? Wouldn't a shade of gray like "only some", or "few" or... ? ;-) > Just a thought. And a very valid one. But just as valid as mine if I think that TB developers are "defocusing" by devoting time and resources by "improving" RTV to show _plain_text_messages_ with *fake* pretty colours and fonts that the originator never intended, or by devoting time to a spam plugin API to enable a few to have fun developing spam filters when there are already very good anti-spam tools out there (it will be hard to neat POPFile) that can be seamlessly used by TB, or to allow the use of an alternate or external editor when TB's one "is supposed to be the best", or to PGP8 (how many TB users use/need PGP and, of those, how many need PGP8), or to improving IMAP support, which I don't care about, and not to extended MAPI which would be more useful to me, or :-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Sunday, January 19, 2003, 12:32:25 PM, Allie Martin wrote: > Development of TB! as a specialist e-mail client extraordinaire, > slows in an effort to improve the news-reader component/plug-in. I agree with this, although I think that some news-reader features are common to those of a specialist email client, particularly in the handling of mailing lists. I am thinking of things like Ignore Thread, which I always found useful in Agent as a way of dealing with high volume groups and mailing lists. I know that this can currently be done using filters, but it is not easy. Julian -- Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Miguel A. Urech [MAU] wrote:'
>> It is either the fear of the unknown, or they relate to Outlook. I guess
>> they never used VA. :-)
MAU> Agree. Some people seem to think there is only Outlook and TB out
MAU> there :)
But none seem to do both well when they support both.
I don't mind the integration via the plug-in. My only concern and this
may be imagined is that Stefan has stated on TBBETA that their current
wish list is massive. I can just imagine that the newsreader will
bring with it, it's own set of wishes, especially when those who were
using Agent and their other specialised newsreaders start getting
grumpy when the various news-reader specific features they so love is
not in the plug-in. More wishes galore. :/ Loss of focus sets in.
Development of TB! as a specialist e-mail client extraordinaire,
slows in an effort to improve the news-reader component/plug-in.
Just a thought.
--
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Greg, > Why don't you join. It is free. Then you could really see the BS fly! > :-) As I have said in my reply to Thomas, I'm already on TBOT (Too Bany Other Lists) and newsgroups. What is "the BS"? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Greg, > It is either the fear of the unknown, or they relate to Outlook. I guess > they never used VA. :-) Agree. Some people seem to think there is only Outlook and TB out there :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Anne, > I'm not afraid of it Miguel, I just don't want to use TB! in that way. But you don't have to. Just like now you don't have to create an account for my mailboxes on my ISPs. That is all the difference there would (should) be. When creating an account, having the possibility of creating it for a POP/SMTP server, like now, of for a NNTP one. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Thomas, >> I'm not on TBOT. :-( > > Your loss! ;-) Maybe, but I am already on TBOT (Too "Bany" Other Lists :) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Anne, > Miguel, you could always join us... there are always lots of > interesting discussions going on there. :-) I know I could and I'm sure there are interesting discussions going on, but I just can't be in every place I'd like to. :-( -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 11:19:53 AM,Miguel wrote: MAU> Why are some of you somewhat "afraid" of a newsreader/mail client MAU> combo? It could be (should be) quite transparent to you if you just MAU> want to use it for e-mail. As I envision it, the difference would MAU> (could) be that when you want to create a new account you are given MAU> the option to create a mail or a news account. If you create a mail one MAU> you have to configure the POP and SMTP servers, etc., and if a news MAU> one the news server. What a big deal! Just like now when creating a MAU> news folder we have the option to create a normal folder in the MAU> selected account or a global folder. I'm not afraid of it Miguel, I just don't want to use TB! in that way. As I said elsewhere if I wished to use newsgroups (which I don't any more) I would go back to using Gravity which I like immensely for that purpose. In the same way as I like TB! immensely for my mail, and so on. I think what worries me about programs which do multiple things is that they can (not always it's true) get to the stage where they do everything OK but nothing eally well. In other words you can get by with them, but they are not as good *in my opinion* as standalone programs for each purpose. Taken to its extreme we could say let's design a super program that does everything - mail, news, ftp down/uploads, writes webpages, produces office type documents, incorporates a firewall and an anti-virus and so on. But would we want this? I certainly wouldn't. I want the freedom to mix and match programs that - for me - do the best job in the way that suits me rather than be forced to buy super programs that multi-function. OTOH if the extras like a newsreader option were to be available via plugins, in the same way as are existing anti-virus and PGP plugins, then I'd have no problems with that. As ever with this it is very much a matter of what suits the user best :-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat (...)
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:35:24 PM,Miguel wrote: MAU> I'm not on TBOT. :-( Miguel, you could always join us... there are always lots of interesting discussions going on there. :-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 1:58:31 PM,Paul wrote: PC> I have 2 antivirus plugins, the NOD32 (test version 0.1) and AVG 10. PC> I am using AVG, and I don't remember why I added the NOD32 plugin. Paul, this could well be your problem. It's never recommended to run two a/v's together as they can fight each other and thus cause the user just this sort of problem. I'd suggest you remove one of them and try and see if this resolves the matter. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Miguel, Saturday, January 18, 2003, 2:32:32 PM, you wrote: >> You can't simply compare it to another language as you did in >> another message ... Spanish vs English. MAU> It was just a way of trying to explain it to Mary. I should have MAU> chosen a better example. What if TB editor only supported message MAU> encoding in Latin-1 and not in Thai, Cyrillic, Greek and others? Actually I think a better comparison is plain text as all the above and html as something like Linear B. ;-) -- Best regards, Mike Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: FW: I love the Bat etc
Hello Kenneth, Saturday, January 18, 2003, 6:50:22 AM, you wrote: KSR> Here is an option. Perhaps RTL can introduced 2.0 with multiple options, KSR> and if some people are not happy with that, they can keep using 1.xx without KSR> upgrading. I agree with Anne. As for this suggestion I would be far happier if those features were, if supplied at all, supplied as plug-ins which aren't incorporated into the runtime, so I don't have to waste memory and disk space with features I don't want, whilst still getting the benefits of newer code which your idea would preclude me from doing. -- Best regards, Mike Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Paul, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, at 08:44:03 GMT -0500 (1/18/2003, 7:44 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm not afraid of anything, I just like my applications to be fast and > versatile. TB is, but if it starts adding TOO much... back to the > BLOATware of OE. Well I've used a client in the past called Virtual Access (VA). VA was not at all like OE which is bloatware. Very efficient, able to manage very large message DB, and very good at threading messages. In some ways better than TB. It threaded conversations (i.e. both send and receive messages) in the same folder. I stopped using it because it was no longer being developed. -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/3 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Miguel, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, at 12:19:53 GMT +0100 (1/18/2003, 5:19 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What a big deal! It is either the fear of the unknown, or they relate to Outlook. I guess they never used VA. :-) -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/3 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, at 15:35:24 GMT +0100 (1/18/2003, 8:35 AM -0500 GMT here), you wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm not on TBOT. :-( Why don't you join. It is free. Then you could really see the BS fly! :-) -- Best regards, Greg Strong TB! v1.63 Beta/3 on Windows XP Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 10:58 AM, you wrote: >> I say "NO" and get another error message dialog box that says: >> the anti-virus has reported an error, the file cannot be checked for >> viruses. TF> This may be a beta problem. Please report on the beta list. no, it was a screw loose between the ears problem:) >> I click OK, and the email message comes back to me, but the html >> attachment doesn't open. TF> It always opens here, but I am using another beta version than you. not a beta issue, it was doing that with 1.62 >> I have 2 antivirus plugins, the NOD32 (test version 0.1) and AVG 10. >> I am using AVG, and I don't remember why I added the NOD32 plugin. TF> LOL! This just may be the problem. thanks for the encouragement:) I changed the ( slightly new menu options) tools-preferences menu to load *.htm and *.html without asking. At least AVG will still be scanning, so security isn't compromized ( I don't think?). go away for a week and new beta series comes out, SHEESH!! -- Paul Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hi Miguel, on Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:32:32 +0100GMT (18.01.03, 15:32 +0100GMT here), you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : >> Why push a format that so easily and trivially takes away the readers >> *choice* of background colour and font sizes?? Until clients >> incorporate ways to control this at the readers end, I cannot support >> HTML use in e-mail. MAU> Do you have any choice if I send you a letter by snail mail on my MAU> company's letterhead? No, I haven't. That's another advantage of e-mail over snail mail. *G* MAU> That's is exactly what some companies I correspond with do with HTML MAU> e-mail. They have designed a "letterhead" every employee if forced to MAU> use for business e-mail We'll have to live with their ignorance of the difference between a screen and a piece of paper. Or teach them... ;-) -- Cheers Peter "The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with." Marty Feldman Winamp currently playing: Electric Flag - Sunny Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello, On Friday, January 17, 2003, 17:44, Carsten wrote: CT> TB! is no newsreader. Why don't you use a tool like Dialog[1] or Gnus? CT> [1] http://www.40tude.com/dialog/ I've tried 40tude dialog and it blew me away! Good bye Forté Agent. Multiple languages support is amazing in that program. Full unicode support, it picks needed charset for you by analysing what characters are in the message. Perfect! I just wish The Bat! v2 (will it ever be?) would handle multiple languages as well as 40tude Dialog. -- Edvinas Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 11:30:12 AM,Miguel wrote: MAU> Ever tried Second Copy 2000 from http://www.centered.com/ ? Thanks Miguel, no I hadn't tried this. It's been suggested elsewhere that the freeware program Replicator from Karenware.com may do this as well, so I shall check them both out and see which suits best. :-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:35:24 +0100 GMT (18/01/03, 21:35 +0700 GMT), Miguel A. Urech wrote: >> f'up2tbot. > I'm not on TBOT. :-( Your loss! ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Der Angeklagte unterhielt mit mir bis zum 7. Monat einen intimen Kontakt und fuhr dann zu einer anderen Arbeitsstelle. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Jonathan, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:10:36 -0600 GMT (18/01/03, 02:10 +0700 GMT), Jonathan Angliss wrote: It is technically possible to filter on that, very much like an HTML attachment is now shown as such in the attachment pane. Currently it is not possible to filter on attachment extensions, but I believe it is in the wishlist. >>> I'm confused... are you saying you can filter on an attachment >>> header? >> Technically, yes. > Enlighten me... I'd love to know... honest. :) OK. Let's assume the header says text/alternative. The alternative (below the boundary) has some file ending on .html. The viewer knows this is to be displayed as an attachment, and does a good job. Now, neither the filters not the search function in TB look at the "lower headers" (the technical information contained just below the boundary). It would technically ot be a problem to make TB look there. Now, please CMIIW. The situation with messages sent in text/html is different. TB renders a plaint text version for display, but due to a philosophy I don't agree with won't save that plain text version. But technically, it would still be possible. >> You say that it will slow the system down. I say that *if* you want >> to use such a filter, you will have to accept a slow-down of a few >> nano-seconds. If you don't want that, don't use such a filter. ;-) > This is true I guess, but it wouldn't be a few nano-seconds for large > attached emails. I get some in the range of 90-200meg sometimes, and > even just selecting and opening them can take some time. Yes, that is true. I myself would send a non-ambiguous message to the sender of an an email with such an attachment (as I do with anybody who sends me attachments larger than 400K - increased from 100K a few years ago), but your requirements may differ. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. "I'm not rushing into being in love. I'm finding fourth grade hard enough." (Regina, 10) Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Paul, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:58:31 -0500 GMT (18/01/03, 20:58 +0700 GMT), Paul Cartwright wrote: > actually, I'm having a problem in TB with html attachments. > when I get a message with a message.htm in the left pane, I click on it, > and get a dialog box that says: > File extension is htm > > do you want to save the file to disk instead of opening it? > I say "NO" and get another error message dialog box that says: > the anti-virus has reported an error, the file cannot be checked for > viruses. This may be a beta problem. Please report on the beta list. > I click OK, and the email message comes back to me, but the html > attachment doesn't open. It always opens here, but I am using another beta version than you. > I have 2 antivirus plugins, the NOD32 (test version 0.1) and AVG 10. > I am using AVG, and I don't remember why I added the NOD32 plugin. LOL! This just may be the problem. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Money can't buy happiness but it can certainly rent it for a couple of hours. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments
Hello Kenneth, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:50:22 -0500 GMT (18/01/03, 13:50 +0700 GMT), Kenneth S. Rhee wrote: > Here is an option. Perhaps RTL can introduced 2.0 with multiple options, This has already been confirmed. You will be able to use your editor of choice, including an HTML editor. The latter will not be a part of the code, so there will be no bloat. I myself will stick to plain text, though. > and if some people are not happy with that, they can keep using 1.xx > without upgrading. This will also be possible. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I bought a portable cable tv. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Thomas, > f'up2tbot. I'm not on TBOT. :-( -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Allie, > Why push a format that so easily and trivially takes away the readers > *choice* of background colour and font sizes?? Until clients > incorporate ways to control this at the readers end, I cannot support > HTML use in e-mail. Do you have any choice if I send you a letter by snail mail on my company's letterhead? That's is exactly what some companies I correspond with do with HTML e-mail. They have designed a "letterhead" every employee if forced to use for business e-mail > You can't simply compare it to another language as you did in > another message ... Spanish vs English. It was just a way of trying to explain it to Mary. I should have chosen a better example. What if TB editor only supported message encoding in Latin-1 and not in Thai, Cyrillic, Greek and others? > The only HTML mail I can reliably read with comfort are from those > who know how to compose it, i.e., HTML newsletters and such. Same with plain text. Not everybody uses a rich vocabulary, correct grammar and punctuation, etc., etc. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Carsten, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:23:27 +0100 GMT (18/01/03, 03:23 +0700 GMT), Carsten Thönges wrote: >> I don't see a contradiction. > Between a HTML editor and IMAP support? No, between developing an HTML editor and developing IMAP support. >> And the mnemo is NAK. ;-) > Both NACK and NAK is correct. And you know that. When I still used mnemos, they were all three letters long. But maybe that was changed later, so you may be right. And no, I don't know that. > Unfortunately TB! also isn't ideal for offices or small > companies. a) no IMAP b) client/server mode is too buggy. And these > are facts. Depends. I used TB in my last office (and it was ideal) and I would have moved all 45 staff in my department to TB if it had appropriate Chinese-language support. We didn't use IMAP (but POP) nor TB's client/server mode (but an Exchange server). But of course, it depends on your setup, so you are not completely wrong. >> As long as the HTML-editor is optional, the additional "bloat" is >> justifiable from a marketing point of view. > The features I miss in TB! I found in another software. I am not > alone. And no, it wasn't the missing HTML editor ;-) Yeah, well. I didn't see the marketing reasearch data, but apparently, the HTML editor is a big issue. I trust Stefan on this. >>> Yes, but competitors don't sleep ;-) >> That's why. ;-) > Why what? That's why development will include an HTML editor. > What has happened in the last months? Development wasn't very, ehm, > rapid. There have been 5 betas out in the last couple days?weeks? and I don't call that slow. And based on release versions, I would still say that TB development is still on the "rapid" side of the industry. > Actually I like TB!... We do have something in common. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. A fool and his money are soon partying. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Allister, On Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:55:59 +1300 GMT (18/01/03, 03:55 +0700 GMT), Allister Jenks wrote: > There should be an internet license for newbies! I advocated for this before, but it didn't work out. > They should all start with a < 14.4k modem (preferably 1.2k or > slower) and have scripted UUCP connections. My first modem had 360 baud... or wait, I think that was an "acoustic coupler". ;-) What I advocate for now is that "Computing" should be made compulsory at school, maybe in early junior high. But let's take this to TBOT. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:14:40 +0100 GMT (18/01/03, 02:14 +0700 GMT), Miguel A. Urech wrote: > But Thai is not _plain_ text, it is a _very complicated_ text ;-) LOL! But that is technically not true (from a computer POV), and on top of that it is not that complicated. Unless, of course, you cannot read it, in which case English would also be complicated. ;-) f'up2tbot. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Dort wo jetzt die Truemmer ragen, standen einst stolze Burgfraeuleins und warteten auf ihre ausgezogenen Ritter. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 8:04 AM, you wrote: AM> The only HTML mail I can reliably read with comfort are from those who AM> know how to compose it, i.e., HTML newsletters and such. Though I AM> still have problems with some. I then open them in my browser. The AM> HTML format does improve on the presentation of a newsletter or AM> similar document. I'd have just as quickly accepted it as an HTML AM> attachment anyway. actually, I'm having a problem in TB with html attachments. when I get a message with a message.htm in the left pane, I click on it, and get a dialog box that says: File extension is htm do you want to save the file to disk instead of opening it? I say "NO" and get another error message dialog box that says: the anti-virus has reported an error, the file cannot be checked for viruses. I click OK, and the email message comes back to me, but the html attachment doesn't open. I have 2 antivirus plugins, the NOD32 (test version 0.1) and AVG 10. I am using AVG, and I don't remember why I added the NOD32 plugin. -- Paul Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 6:19 AM, you wrote: MAU> Hello Anne, >> If it was standalone one then I'd have no problems with it. I >> wouldn't want to see a newsreader/mail client combo though. MAU> Why are some of you somewhat "afraid" of a newsreader/mail client MAU> combo? It could be (should be) quite transparent to you if you just MAU> want to use it for e-mail. I'm not afraid of anything, I just like my applications to be fast and versatile. TB is, but if it starts adding TOO much... back to the BLOATware of OE. MAU> As I envision it, the difference would sure glad we each have our own opinion <>G MAU> (could) be that when you want to create a new account you are given MAU> the option to create a mail or a news account. If you create a mail one MAU> you have to configure the POP and SMTP servers, etc., and if a news MAU> one the news server. What a big deal! Just like now when creating a MAU> news folder we have the option to create a normal folder in the MAU> selected account or a global folder. Outlook does this and I never liked the newsreader part of outlook, never used it. Besides the fact that Outlook actually called Outlook EXPRESS ( another app) to do newsreading, it was not a good newsreader! Agent was much better for text groups, and Newsrover and NewsbinPro are better for binary groups. I don't want to combine all that into one app. I don't normally DO email and newsgroups at the same time, so why should I ask for a client that does it all? I understand that it would be nice to do newsreading & email all at once, no problem, make it happen! Like you said, if I don't add the news server account, then I just don't use that feature, but others can, I LOVE IT! -- Paul Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Miguel A. Urech [MAU] wrote:'
Ritlabs seems to have an HTML editor in their list of features to
definitely support at some point. For this reason, I didn't wish to
comment on this thread. However, I find the pro-HTML arguments to be
quite disturbing to the point where I can no longer maintain my
silence. :) I therefore just *have to* jump in.
MAU> Of course! Nobody should be forced to use a feature he doesn't
MAU> want to use.
This is *exactly*, and I stress *exactly*, the point that I push. We
should always strive for this. This should be strived for in the
context of both formatting your own mail and also reading mail.
Of course, it's only in a few situations that you'll have everyone
pleased, so you'll just have to do what will likely please most of
your audience. If you're just corresponding with one individual and
you know what they want, then no problem.
Why push a format that so easily and trivially takes away the readers
*choice* of background colour and font sizes?? Until clients
incorporate ways to control this at the readers end, I cannot support
HTML use in e-mail.
MAU> I wouldn't use TB if I was forced to use PGP, but it is good the
MAU> option is there for those who want or need to use it.
Yes. If I use it, my text is just as readable as if I didn't. I don't
cripple you, as a reader of my message, in any way.
MAU> And I don't complain if the developers devote time to debugging
MAU> or improving the PGP features.
Sure.
My problem isn't one of incorporating features that don't interest me.
You're making it out to be this, and I don't think those who have
commented negatively about HTML are against it simply because it
doesn't interest them. You can't simply compare it to another language
as you did in another message ... Spanish vs English.
I'm commenting against it because there are problems with it. It
creates a lot of problems for others. Problems that I myself
experience daily and have explained in another message. Problems that
the very sender isn't aware of in the majority of circumstances in
which it occurs.
The only HTML mail I can reliably read with comfort are from those who
know how to compose it, i.e., HTML newsletters and such. Though I
still have problems with some. I then open them in my browser. The
HTML format does improve on the presentation of a newsletter or
similar document. I'd have just as quickly accepted it as an HTML
attachment anyway.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: My Public Keys - http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html
iD8DBQE+KVDQV8nrYCsHF+IRAgdPAKD2J4gNUAb+v60RYbGXwyZeEreKpwCg7IoZ
y9/MIAlFRBhdEXeiOV5jTIw=
=jfmM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Thorsten, > In my opinion, The Bat needs to support all the features, the main > competition (M$) is offering - this means HTML Emails, Usenet Group > Support etc. Of course it would be great, if the user could choose > to work just with plain text, or with all the bells and whistles > activated. Of course! Nobody should be forced to use a feature he doesn't want to use. I wouldn't use TB if I was forced to use PGP, but it is good the option is there for those who want or need to use it. And I don't complain if the developers devote time to debugging or improving the PGP features. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hi all, Samstag, 18. Januar 2003 12:28 you wrote: i am lurking into this thread with interest. This discussion reminds me a lot to those Macintosh <---> Windows and OS/2 <---> Windows Discussions. In my opinion, The Bat needs to support all the features, the main competition (M$) is offering - this means HTML Emails, Usenet Group Support etc. Of course it would be great, if the user could choose to work just with plain text, or with all the bells and whistles activated. Take a look from the commercial side: "Non-Power Users" like me, like to have all the features other software is offerung included PLUS the security and mighty other functions The Bat is already offering. Just my 2 cents MAU> Why are some of you somewhat "afraid" of a newsreader/mail client MAU> combo? It could be (should be) quite transparent to you if you just MAU> want to use it for e-mail. As I envision it, the difference would MAU> (could) be that when you want to create a new account you are given MAU> the option to create a mail or a news account. If you create a mail one MAU> you have to configure the POP and SMTP servers, etc., and if a news MAU> one the news server. What a big deal! Just like now when creating a MAU> news folder we have the option to create a normal folder in the MAU> selected account or a global folder. -- Best Regards, Thorsten Bruchhäusermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Anne, > In my experience Tools » Backup works extremely well. Being able to > back up filters would be nice though. Ever tried Second Copy 2000 from http://www.centered.com/ ? -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Mike, > Well, it just so happens that MacDonalds is having financial problems > and is shutting "restaurants" all over the world :) Which, to me, is good news. I believe that not even the US should be allowed to have "massive destruction weapons". ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Anne, > If it was standalone one then I'd have no problems with it. I > wouldn't want to see a newsreader/mail client combo though. Why are some of you somewhat "afraid" of a newsreader/mail client combo? It could be (should be) quite transparent to you if you just want to use it for e-mail. As I envision it, the difference would (could) be that when you want to create a new account you are given the option to create a mail or a news account. If you create a mail one you have to configure the POP and SMTP servers, etc., and if a news one the news server. What a big deal! Just like now when creating a news folder we have the option to create a normal folder in the selected account or a global folder. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, 5:57:35 AM, Allie Martin wrote: > So when using TB!'s backup, watch out for any errors that are > reported. If errors are reported, don't rely on the backup since you > could lose mail or the backup will not restore. You'll have to first > fix your installation, provided you found where the problem is, and > trust the backup only if it has occurred without any errors. I use the backup facility to maintain a historical version of TB that I can go back to if I find that I have deleted something I may have needed. For a backup of my current installation, I use 12Ghosts Backup (http://12ghosts.com/ghosts/backup.htm) which maintains a full copy of my /MAIL folder once an hour (this can be set to any value) to a second HD which I use for general backups. The program only copies files that have changed since the last backup, so it does not have a noticeable impact on system performance. This second HD is removeable, so if I am going away, I take it out and put it somewhere safe, away from my PC. Julian -- Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
RE: Re[2]: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me toedit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
I'm sorry if I missed your point, but I was responding not only to the content of your message but the strong tone it contained. If you look at my earlier message I was agreeing with the notion of having multiple options so that folks with different choices/preferences can happily coexist without excluding anyone. If you disagree with that, how should I interpret your message? Here is an option. Perhaps RTL can introduced 2.0 with multiple options, and if some people are not happy with that, they can keep using 1.xx without upgrading. > You missed my point - I said for me. Others have their own > opinions and needs and have said their piece already, which > is what I was also doing. Some will agree with you, others > like me will disagree. Just because you disagree with me why > then make such an unnecessary statement as that above? > > -- > Cheers, > Anne > Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Saturday, January 18, 2003, 6:16:38 AM,Kenneth wrote: KSR> I try to refrain, but couldn't help with this one. I for one am glad that KSR> you do not run the world we live in. You missed my point - I said for me. Others have their own opinions and needs and have said their piece already, which is what I was also doing. Some will agree with you, others like me will disagree. Just because you disagree with me why then make such an unnecessary statement as that above? -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
RE: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Oh, Boy, here we go again. I try to refrain, but couldn't help with this one. I for one am glad that you do not run the world we live in. I wasn't advocating that we use the html mail (I for one don't use it 99% of the time, but there are a few occasions I use it to take advantage of rich text controls), but there are others who do. If I eliminate folks around me who use the html mail, then probably 25% of my important mail would be GONE! Let's remember that we do not live in isolation, and being understanding and appreciative others' perspectives are as important as emphasizing your own perspective. When I use Outlook at work, I make plain text as my default e-mail formatting, but there are others who do not, and I respect their choices however I might disagree with them. > > Disagree completely. I want an e-mail client to do my e-mail, > nothing else. If I wanted to use newsgroups then I'd use a > newsreader client like Gravity (which in my opinion is > extremely good). If I ever had the urge to write e-mails in > html I'd go and lie down in a darkened room until I had > regained my senses. (I abhor html mails and delete any that I > receive unread!) For me TB! is the ideal e-mail client. It > does e-mail simply, effectively and ha so many features that > I'll still be learning new ones when I each the age of 90! ;-) > > -- > Cheers, > Anne > Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Anne [A] wrote:'
A> In my experience Tools » Backup works extremely well. Being able to
A> back up filters would be nice though.
This point was being discussed on the beta list.
The backup utility has worked well for me on the three occasions I've
used it. However, one of those occasions was not without problems.
The initial backup wouldn't restore. It said that there was a problem
(I can't remember what it was, but the message wasn't specific).
I then started looking through the settings of my installation. I
found a nonsense path for one of my account's attachment directory.
The path was from one of my previous installations (I've been moving
the current installation around, using the same one since I started
using TB!). After correcting the path and doing the backup, the
restore worked.
You can imagine how I would have felt if I didn't have a working
installation to fall back when the backup didn't restore.
So when using TB!'s backup, watch out for any errors that are
reported. If errors are reported, don't rely on the backup since you
could lose mail or the backup will not restore. You'll have to first
fix your installation, provided you found where the problem is, and
trust the backup only if it has occurred without any errors.
Interestingly, I got no error messages when I did the backup that
failed to restore.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: My Public Keys - http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html
iD8DBQE+KOzOV8nrYCsHF+IRAk4iAJ417440QIA9eWKzVsyDL3plcIaEogCg86H4
uKwPaGcgPvbjVynoDSar6fQ=
=hSSM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Friday, January 17, 2003, 5:32:14 PM,Miguel wrote: MAU> Don't underestimate Ritlabs' programers. If they could write a better MAU> e-mail client why do you assume they won't be able to write a better MAU> newsreader? If it was standalone one then I'd have no problems with it. I wouldn't want to see a newsreader/mail client combo though. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Friday, January 17, 2003, 1:15:54 PM,Robert wrote: RS> (4) Improve the capability of backing up and restoring configuration RS> information. It should be easy to backup any feature be it folder RS> Sorting FILTERS etc.. In my experience Tools » Backup works extremely well. Being able to back up filters would be nice though. -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Friday, January 17, 2003, 4:45:54 PM, Kenneth wrote: KSR> Agreed. KSR> If the Bat developers take such narrow and rigid stand on these issues, they KSR> will drive away current and potential users, and I am afraid that would be KSR> the end of product development. Disagree completely. I want an e-mail client to do my e-mail, nothing else. If I wanted to use newsgroups then I'd use a newsreader client like Gravity (which in my opinion is extremely good). If I ever had the urge to write e-mails in html I'd go and lie down in a darkened room until I had regained my senses. (I abhor html mails and delete any that I receive unread!) For me TB! is the ideal e-mail client. It does e-mail simply, effectively and ha so many features that I'll still be learning new ones when I each the age of 90! ;-) -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.62 Christmas Edition on Windows 98 4.10 Build Visit The Bat! Users' Unofficial Help Forum http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, January 17, 2003, Miguel A. Urech wrote... > And... was the telephone invented to send text messages? The theory of how the telephone works is very similar to that used to send telegrams over wire. The telegraph system having been around for 30 or so years before Bell and Gray started their work on the telephone. Bell/Gray just expanded on what was there to allow the adaptation of voice, and multi-direction communication (two people speaking at once for example). So the sending of text messages over telephone isn't a difficult thing to do seeing as the infrastructure was based partially on it ;) It'd probably be worth taking most of the rest of these replies to the original thread to tbot... could get interesting, and chances are, it'll drift OT pretty quick as well. - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQA/AwUBPihTWSuD6BT4/R9zEQJ95wCfSMQ61aFq1UHyQsxgHC3wDL9XUzwAoPs6 nDuGBC+8eS81i0f2bYVN7doE =RYEn -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:21:46 +0100 GMT (18/01/03, 01:21 +0700 GMT), Miguel A. Urech wrote: >> But HTML was never meant to be part of email, which at the time when >> HTML was created didn't even know anything but plain text. > And, as you may know, the composition of Viagra was not meant for the > purpose it is being widely and mainly used. They are taking advantage > of a side effect. :-) This kind of side effect is called an "externality". > And... was the telephone invented to send text messages? Was Teflon > invented to cover the surface of frying pans? Was the There are positive and negative externalities. The difference is a subject for TBOT rather than TBDUL. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike Alexander [MA] wrote:'
MA> Nope, have to disagree with you there. The first working computer
MA> was Charles Babbage's Difference Engine ;-)
This thread has swayed off-topic in two directions.
Many subscribers are complaining that the list traffic is heavy and
off-topic discussions aren't helping. I can certainly understand this.
Would you kindly take this 'origin of HTML etc.' discussion off-list
please.
Thanks.
- --
-=] allie_M [=- {List Moderator}
MUA: TB! v1.63 Beta/4 ___ OS: WinXP Pro (SP1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: My Public Keys - http://www.ac-martin.com/pgpkeys.html
iD8DBQE+KLSGV8nrYCsHF+IRAvaiAKD8m2bd1XI7amUH50afycdqAeBlUACg/Z8H
zdi6P/LXn3Mjm8533Mjf3cU=
=A20n
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Miguel, Friday, January 17, 2003, 6:30:31 PM, you wrote: MAU> Hello Laura, >> resistance is futile, html is here to stay. MAU> Just like Coca-Cola and McDonald ;-) Well, it just so happens that MacDonalds is having financial problems and is shutting "restaurants" all over the world :) -- Best regards, Mike Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Thomas, Friday, January 17, 2003, 5:48:29 PM, you wrote: TF> Fact is, the computer was invented by Conrad Zuse (Google has more TF> info on this German inventor) Nope, have to disagree with you there. The first working computer was Charles Babbage's Difference Engine ;-) -- Best regards, Mike Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Robert, Friday, January 17, 2003, 1:15:54 PM, you wrote: RS> Hello , RS> Why can't the bat with all its extra features many of them nice but RS> some of them not that important do the following: RS> (1) Edit or use an existing HTML editor in a seamless manner Because it's a text mail client. RS> (2) Have the option of viewing HTML pages in its viewer. The double RS> clicking attachments is cumbersome. It would be much better if that RS> feature was simply optional and utilized function calls to existing RS> browser code like Hotmetal used to do or other HTML editors could. See above RS> (3) Read NNTP News Groups Because it's a mail client not a newsreader - that's what I use my newsreader for. RS> (4) Improve the capability of backing up and restoring configuration RS> information. It should be easy to backup any feature be it folder RS> Sorting FILTERS etc.. Have you checked out tools/backup? -- Best regards, Mike Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hi Spike, on Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:36:08 -0500GMT (17.01.03, 22:36 +0100GMT here), you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : S> Funny how, since I have gone from US $2.50/hour dialup to US S> $125.00 a month for ADSL Wow, that's expensive! That's what they charge at Cayman's? I _would_ be aware of HTML mails then. *BS* -- Cheers Peter If God dropped acid, would he see people? Winamp currently playing: Robert Wyatt - An Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello marek jedlinski, On or about Friday, January 17, 2003 at 19:13:57GMT +0100 (which was 1:13 PM in the tropics where I live) marek jedlinski mumbeld: mj> Absolutely. HTML not only makes email unreadable to lots of mj> people, it is the main source and reason for email-related mj> security breaches these days, and it makes a message two to mj> three times larger than it would be n plain text only, mj> meaning that anyone who pays by the minute (as most of us mj> folks in Europe do) or by bytes transferred is incurring mj> three times the cost of a plain text email. Funny how, since I have gone from US $2.50/hour dialup to US $125.00 a month for ADSL, I so soon forgot the PRIMARY reason why I first began to abhor HTML e-mails!! One's perspective does change quickly based upon momentary circumstances. I stand further armored by the above comments ;^] -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike Losers let things happen! Winners make things happen! -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML). -- Flying in the stratosphere with The Bat! V1.61 on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Carsten, > I know that, like Miguel, there are some guys who use their TB! as a > newsreader, but what about scoring, killfiling, ignoring threads > etc.? Don't you miss that in TB!? Once you have downloaded messages, what is the big difference between a newsgroup and a mail list like this one? Do you miss scoring in this list? Aren't killfiles quite similar (if not the same) than selective download filters? And about ignoring threads, that is a feature I missed in tb since I started using it. But I have such an option already in TB :) And it works not only for newsgroups but for mailing lists also. For example, in this list I ignore all thread that relate to PGP or anti virus plugins (ignore by subject), but then I can also ignore specific threads by Reference. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello marek, > I've never seen TB thread newsgroups, yet :) If you have a folder for this list and view threads by Reference, that is exactly how you will see newsgroups threads. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Saturday, 18 January 2003, at 4:26:55 a.m., Markus Gloede wrote: > Those are not "standard email features". They have been wrapped into > email clients by other companies and they made a bad job at it and have > thus set a quasi-standard which led you to believe those are standard > features. Amen! There should be an internet license for newbies! They should all start with a < 14.4k modem (preferably 1.2k or slower) and have scripted UUCP connections. They would have freeware email and newsreaders (preferably something written about 10 years ago) and have exhorbitant connection fees which are time-based. THEN they would understand how things are *supposed* to work and how easy they have things today. I know plenty of folk who still can't distinguish between the act of connecting to the net (i.e. dialup) and the use of that connection for a variety of protocols (i.e. HTTP, email, IM). Regards, Allister. -- Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
* Thomas Fernandez writes: > Spike wrote: (3) Read NNTP News Groups MG>>> Many prefer using a separate client for that, yet future MG>>> releases might also implement that. >> S*%T to that! > I am not sure about that first word, but Stefan said *if* TB gets > newsreader capabilities, it will be by way of a plug-in. Please read: http://www.newsreaders.com/misc/twpierce/news/newsreader-manifesto.html Gnus, slrn, tin, Dialog, Agent, ... I know that, like Miguel, there are some guys who use their TB! as a newsreader, but what about scoring, killfiling, ignoring threads etc.? Don't you miss that in TB!? > So you don't need to load it if you don't want to. ;-) Quite a lot of "OPTIONAL" features that I don't need these days... ;-) This is off-topic, isn't it? -- Beste Grüße, Carsten Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
* Thomas Fernandez writes: > Carsten Thönges wrote: >>> And anyway, independently of what you or I may wish, if Ritlabs is >>> smart enough and they want to keep in business, they should >>> include an HTML editor in a near future version. > They _are_ smart. Wait and see... ;-) Oha! >> NACK. If Ritlabs is smart enough and they want to keep in business, >> they should provide full IMAP support for professional business >> users or should improve (=debug) the not-so-bad client/server mode. > I don't see a contradiction. Between a HTML editor and IMAP support? Where is the HTML editor? Where is IMAP? TB!'s fans have been waiting for V2.0 with all the promising features since I don't now when. And it definitely wasn't smart to announce a version 2. > And the mnemo is NAK. ;-) Both NACK and NAK is correct. And you know that. >> Which group is Ritlabs targeting? > I am not familiar with their marketing plan, but I believe they are > going for both the power-user who won't use HTML in emails (but would > need IMAP, better SSL/TLS implementation etc) as well as the sizeable > group that moves away from OL/OE but still wants to use HTML in > emails. The Personal costs about 40 EUR in Germany. This isn't what I would call cheap. I don't say that it's too expensive, but IMHO a little too much to get ahead of OE. Unfortunately TB! also isn't ideal for offices or small companies. a) no IMAP b) client/server mode is too buggy. And these are facts. > As long as the HTML-editor is optional, the additional "bloat" is > justifiable from a marketing point of view. The features I miss in TB! I found in another software. I am not alone. And no, it wasn't the missing HTML editor ;-) >> Yes, but competitors don't sleep ;-) > That's why. ;-) Why what? What has happened in the last months? Development wasn't very, ehm, rapid. Actually I like TB!... -- Best regards, Carsten Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Jonathan, > Having looked at the RFCs for NNTP, the threading is done in an > identical fashion I believe, even using the same header names, > In-Reply-To and References. Those are the same headers that TB! uses > to do normal mail threading, and so the threading will work over there > too. Yes, it does work. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Friday, January 17, 2003, 8:02:52 PM, Miguel A. Urech ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Someone could perhaps say that e-mail was not "invented" to send > attachments, at least large attachments. FTP was invented for that :) This is fair enough; the encode/decode overhead is a necessary evil. But not everyone is or can be running a server (I can't, no static IP), and I've seen (small) companies that are so concerned with security they won't even run a private FTP server. >> Agent's threading is also superior, IMO. > In the 17 groups I monitor (with TB) I have never seen an un-properly > threaded message. I've never seen TB thread newsgroups, yet :) Perhaps it's not the threading algorithm as such that I prefer in Agent, more how Agent displays and handles threads. In Agent, I nearly always keep messages threaded (sort by date is the ony other option I use), but for some reason I cannot get used to how TB displays threads, moving around the columns and all, so I always end up sorting by received date and, when following a thread like this one, always have to move up :) > As I have said, I read and write news with TB, and I am not the only > one. If you are interested, take a look at: Thanks a lot, I will! .marek jedlinski -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://keynote.prv.pl (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette) "Most of what I've learned over the years has come from signatures." (Larry Wall) Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, January 17, 2003, Miguel A. Urech wrote... >> This is true I guess, but it wouldn't be a few nano-seconds for >> large attached emails. I get some in the range of 90-200meg >> sometimes, and even just selecting and opening them can take some >> time. > I'm sure you have heard about FTP, haven't you? ;-) Absolutely... but not everybody has access to such, and in most cases those that do have access to it don't know how to use it. In addition to that, it'd require accounts to be setup on said FTP server to allow clients to send in files, which is something I don't fancy doing for each client that wants to send in files ;) - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQA/AwUBPihbLyuD6BT4/R9zEQJIWgCg/v9KRiAoX2FFVSh1XmsOg1ToZ1YAn18e abBBJvneBLHl8N8MhkRs9FIt =+FWG -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, January 17, 2003, Miguel A. Urech wrote... >> Agent's threading is also superior, IMO. > In the 17 groups I monitor (with TB) I have never seen an > un-properly threaded message. Having looked at the RFCs for NNTP, the threading is done in an identical fashion I believe, even using the same header names, In-Reply-To and References. Those are the same headers that TB! uses to do normal mail threading, and so the threading will work over there too. - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQA/AwUBPihaLSuD6BT4/R9zEQIaTACfST91NxNkpK8gF5YQYMCnjTKMumkAoO+v Ci6gfN1wP9yJGyEEuDY/tSRI =rQCo -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Jonathan, > This is true I guess, but it wouldn't be a few nano-seconds for large > attached emails. I get some in the range of 90-200meg sometimes, and > even just selecting and opening them can take some time. I'm sure you have heard about FTP, haven't you? ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Thomas, > Any mail written in Thai language! But Thai is not _plain_ text, it is a _very complicated_ text ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, January 17, 2003, Thomas Fernandez wrote... >>> It is technically possible to filter on that, very much like an >>> HTML attachment is now shown as such in the attachment pane. >>> Currently it is not possible to filter on attachment extensions, >>> but I believe it is in the wishlist. >> I'm confused... are you saying you can filter on an attachment >> header? > Technically, yes. Enlighten me... I'd love to know... honest. :) >> otherwise you'll probably start matching things in the attachment >> body for words like sex. > What's wrong with sex? ;-) absolutely nothing ;) I've just found that in the case of 'random' text produced by base64 encoded files, that particular word seems to come up the most ;) I guess the developer probably had the same sense of humor (or at least similar) that the developer of the unix commands had ;) >> Plus you also have to take into account that the attachment must be >> encoded in 7bit or 8bit, or provide a base64 decoder as part of the >> filtering, and to be honest, that is going to slow the filtering >> down a *lot* when it comes to bit emails. > You say that it will slow the system down. I say that *if* you want > to use such a filter, you will have to accept a slow-down of a few > nano-seconds. If you don't want that, don't use such a filter. ;-) This is true I guess, but it wouldn't be a few nano-seconds for large attached emails. I get some in the range of 90-200meg sometimes, and even just selecting and opening them can take some time. - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQA/AwUBPihVMCuD6BT4/R9zEQKO9QCg8LI62ThO/b1noMU0vAflTFFeEWEAoNmL cuF3UB8H4YqiUycEPZZtU4ot =UWk3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello marek, > It *could* be a great newsreader, It *is* already, I currently use it for 17 newsgroups. > but attachment handling would have to be thoroughly reworked. In my > freelance work I receive and send lots of large and very large > attachments (1-20MB). TB takes *ages* to just display a message that > contains an attachment, then takes twice as long to save it. Someone could perhaps say that e-mail was not "invented" to send attachments, at least large attachments. FTP was invented for that :) However, although I don't usually send large attachments I do received them, and I've never had the feeling that TB is slow displaying a message with attachments or saving them. > Agent's threading is also superior, IMO. In the 17 groups I monitor (with TB) I have never seen an un-properly threaded message. > That said, I'd buy a TB-based newsreader without a second of > hesitation, if only for the powerful search facilities. As I have said, I read and write news with TB, and I am not the only one. If you are interested, take a look at: http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com/msg36819.html -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Miguel, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:38:41 +0100 GMT (18/01/03, 01:38 +0700 GMT), Miguel A. Urech wrote: > And what serious plain text e-mail needs to be viewed with an RTV > (Rick Text Viewer :) Any mail written in Thai language! Thai fonts in fixed-width font are plain *ugly*. But then, that is the only occasion on which I use the RTV instead of the PTV. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Hypnotophobie: Angst vor dem Bettenmachen. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Paul, > I think they will probably stay away from it though, remember it > would add SEVER bloat to the program to add that much capability. I disagree. Most of the code needed to add (a very good) newsreader capability to TB is already there. Message base and folder management, filters, templates, ABs, ... Basically, all that would need to be added is a Connection Centre and Message Dispatcher that "talks" NNTP instead of POP/SMTP (or IMAP). -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Thomas, > What kind of serious "report" needs highlighting by colour of font? And what serious plain text e-mail needs to be viewed with an RTV (Rick Text Viewer :) which can use different fonts and colours for odd and even reply quotes, and for text, and for signature, etc. And yet, some of TB's "gurus" seem to love it. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Nick, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:10:51 + GMT (18/01/03, 01:10 +0700 GMT), Nick Gordon wrote: TF>> Fact is, the computer was invented by Conrad Zuse (Google has more TF>> info on this German inventor), and HTML was invented by James Bernhard TF>> Lee at CERN in Switzerland. > Tim Berners Lee, I think. Yes. I have been corrected already by PM. My brain is starting to develop a divergence to the behaviour of a RAM. Would never have thought this would happen, but we never stop learning, do we? (Wink to Mary who likes to talk about "senior moments" ;-) ). > Hadn't known about Zuse - interesting. Anyway, both Sperry (Univac) in > the US and Lyons in the UK predated IBM, as maybe did others. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. "Love will find you, even if you are trying to hide from it. I've been trying to hide from it since I was five, but the girls keep finding me." (Bobby, 8) Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Spike, > Otherwise, as I stated earlier we would just have a re-written MS > Outhouse, and . . . why bother? Not really. I haven't ever used Outlook, so I'm not familiar. But I doubt it has the filtering and templates power (just to name a couple of things) TB has. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hi Laura, on Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:36:47 -0800GMT (17.01.03, 18:36 +0100GMT here), you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : MAU>> I never write/send HTML e-mail, and I don't think I will in the MAU>> future. But if I implemented a filter like you intend L> to, I would MAU> probably loose abut 1/3 of my business e-mail. L> And belive me, I don't MAU> want to loose it. Hey, what happened to your quotes' wrapping? ;-) -- Cheers Peter I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got! Winamp currently playing: Blind Faith - Can't Find My Way Home (Electric Version) Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Laura, > resistance is futile, html is here to stay. Just like Coca-Cola and McDonald ;-) > MAU>> I never write/send HTML e-mail, and I don't think I will in > the MAU>> future. But if I implemented a filter like you intend > > to, I would MAU> probably loose abut 1/3 of my business e-mail. > > And belive me, I don't MAU> want to loose it. I think there is something wrong with the wrapping of your reply template :-) > Ditto Miguel. there are certain advantages to it as well... > including hilighting things that are important when sending out a > report, and more. THINK about it. :) The problem about using HTML is that many people (and many times) its just used to write a few lines that could just as well have been written in plain text, and with much less overhead. As for reports, I prefer to write them in Word and send as an attachment. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
mj> Attach the report as an HTML file, most recipient will find mj> it more convenient that way. working in offices its not as easy.. but i don't want to get in an argument about it -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Thomas, > But HTML was never meant to be part of email, which at the time when > HTML was created didn't even know anything but plain text. And, as you may know, the composition of Viagra was not meant for the purpose it is being widely and mainly used. They are taking advantage of a side effect. :-) And... was the telephone invented to send text messages? Was Teflon invented to cover the surface of frying pans? Was the -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Friday, January 17, 2003, 6:32:14 PM, Miguel A. Urech ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Don't underestimate Ritlabs' programers. If they could write a better > e-mail client why do you assume they won't be able to write a better > newsreader? It *could* be a great newsreader, but attachment handling would have to be thoroughly reworked. In my freelance work I receive and send lots of large and very large attachments (1-20MB). TB takes *ages* to just display a message that contains an attachment, then takes twice as long to save it. Agent - by way of comparison - gives me no perceptible delay, on the same machine, for the same attachment sizes. Those who download stuff from binary groups would be thoroughly underwhelmed with TB's performance in this regard. Agent's threading is also superior, IMO. That said, I'd buy a TB-based newsreader without a second of hesitation, if only for the powerful search facilities. .marek jedlinski -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://keynote.prv.pl (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette) "You guys got something against spam?" (Vriess, in _Alien 4_) Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
NEWS in TB?!? NO THANK YOU - and do not expect me to accept a price raise of 30% because TB3 (or whenever it is coming out) now adds a newsreader! / St Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Friday, January 17, 2003, 6:36:47 PM, Laura ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > there are certain advantages to it as well... > including hilighting things that are important when sending out a > report, and more. THINK about it. :) Attach the report as an HTML file, most recipient will find it more convenient that way. .marek jedlinski -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://keynote.prv.pl (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette) "You guys got something against spam?" (Vriess, in _Alien 4_) Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Friday, January 17, 2003, 6:48:29 PM, Thomas Fernandez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > HTML was invented by James Bernhard > Lee at CERN in Switzerland. That would be Tim Bernes Lee. > HTML is the "HyperText Markup Language" > and links documents via the hypertext technology. Some people say he > therefore invented the WWW (thus it *is* intended for web pages), but > Xanadu claims to have had the first idea (of a world-wide web - but > they didn't know anything about HTML at the time). Xanadu was a horrible idea: it provided for securing links and content with copyright protection. Imagine the web: "Please insert coin, then click the hyperlink." It was its own death, since IIRC, Ted Nelson was apparently unwilling to make the design and protocols open. Berners-Lee could have patented his invention too, but chose to keep it open instead, and the net result is there for everyone to see. > I won't argue who > invented the WWW. But HTML was never meant to be part of email, which > at the time when HTML was created didn't even know anything but plain > text. Absolutely. HTML not only makes email unreadable to lots of people, it is the main source and reason for email-related security breaches these days, and it makes a message two to three times larger than it would be n plain text only, meaning that anyone who pays by the minute (as most of us folks in Europe do) or by bytes transferred is incurring three times the cost of a plain text email. Recommended reading, short and sweet: http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml .marek jedlinski -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://keynote.prv.pl (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette) "Most of what I've learned over the years has come from signatures." (Larry Wall) Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
On Friday, January 17, 2003, 12:32 PM, you wrote: MAU> Hello Paul, >> I don't think TB ever could be as good with newsgroups as newsbin or >> newsrover, at least with binary-type newsgroups. MAU> Don't underestimate Ritlabs' programers. If they could write a better MAU> e-mail client why do you assume they won't be able to write a better MAU> newsreader? good point! I think they will probably stay away from it though, remember it would add SEVER bloat to the program to add that much capability. Something more along the lines of the Agent newsreader might be a nice option though I'd really rather they concentrate on making it a better email client, and they seem to be doing a fine job! -- Paul Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hi Batpersons, On or about, Friday, January 17, 2003, 5:48:29 PM, we have reason to believe that Thomas Fernandez wrote: TF> Fact is, the computer was invented by Conrad Zuse (Google has more TF> info on this German inventor), and HTML was invented by James Bernhard TF> Lee at CERN in Switzerland. Tim Berners Lee, I think. Hadn't known about Zuse - interesting. Anyway, both Sperry (Univac) in the US and Lyons in the UK predated IBM, as maybe did others. -- Best regards, Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.60c on Windows XP Build 2600 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Laura, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:36:47 -0800 GMT (18/01/03, 00:36 +0700 GMT), Laura wrote: MAU>> I never write/send HTML e-mail, and I don't think I will in the MAU>> future. But if I implemented a filter like you intend to, I MAU>> would probably loose abut 1/3 of my business e-mail. And belive MAU>> me, I don't want to loose it. > Ditto Miguel. there are certain advantages to it as well... > including hilighting things that are important when sending out a > report, and more. THINK about it. :) Come again? What kind of serious "report" needs highlighting by colour of font? I mean, don't you learn at school to use wordings - or even the new way of emoticons (still not acceptable in serious conversation, such as in business or academia)? ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Home is where you can say anything you like 'cause nobody listens to you anyway. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Carsten, >> Speak for yourself and perhaps for a number of users, but not for all. > > Okay. :-)) As for the rest of your message, I fully agree with what Thomas writes in his <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> so I won't repeat. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Jonathan, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:31:55 -0600 GMT (18/01/03, 00:31 +0700 GMT), Jonathan Angliss wrote: >> It is technically possible to filter on that, very much like an HTML >> attachment is now shown as such in the attachment pane. Currently it >> is not possible to filter on attachment extensions, but I believe it >> is in the wishlist. > I'm confused... are you saying you can filter on an attachment header? Technically, yes. > If so, I'd *love* to know how. It has been tried before... at least in > 1.62 and didn't work here, No, it doesn't work in TB yet. That's why it is a wishlist item. >>> and you cannot filter inside that part. >> ...but I would appreciate it if they implemented this feature. > Yes... it would be good... providing you allow for filtering inside > the attachment headers if the content-type is not text/* Yep. ;-) > otherwise you'll probably start matching things in the attachment > body for words like sex. What's wrong with sex? ;-) > If the content-type is text/* then allow the filtering > inside the attachment body too. Yep. ;-) > Plus you also have to take into account that the attachment must be > encoded in 7bit or 8bit, or provide a base64 decoder as part of the > filtering, and to be honest, that is going to slow the filtering > down a *lot* when it comes to bit emails. You say that it will slow the system down. I say that *if* you want to use such a filter, you will have to accept a slow-down of a few nano-seconds. If you don't want that, don't use such a filter. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Der erste Tag am FKK-Strand kann fuer einen jungen Mann sehr hart werden. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat (...)
Hello Spike, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:36:42 -0500 GMT (18/01/03, 00:36 +0700 GMT), Spike wrote: > I'm not being narrow, the key word in all this is _OPTIONAL_! I > don't use ANY anti-virus anywhere. I don't have to, as I use the > best anti-virus package available, a properly informed brain! You're admirable. I get *.exe files, and *.doc files, and I actually have to run them through my virus-scanner before being certain that it is safe to open them. My brain just cannot remember all the tens of thousands of virus codes that plague the internet at the moment, and looking at the source code doesn't trigger my memory either. Blame it on my age! ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Laura, On or about Friday, January 17, 2003 at 09:36:47GMT -0800 (which was 12:36 PM in the tropics where I live) Laura regaled us with: L> resistance is futile, html is here to stay. Not in my inbox it isn't! All my important correspondents know and accept this. >>> I will soon be implementing a filter that sends to trash and >>> deletes any e-mail containing HTML - PERIOD! MAU>> I never write/send HTML e-mail, and I don't think I will in the MAU>> future. But if I implemented a filter like you intend L> to, I would MAU> probably loose abut 1/3 of my business e-mail. L> And belive me, I don't MAU> want to loose it. L> Ditto Miguel. there are certain advantages to it as well... L> including hilighting things that are important when sending out a L> report, and more. THINK about it. :) I do think about it, which is why I send important documents as word processor/spreadsheet format attachments. I use the proper tool for the job. If I have something HTML (a prototype web page, for example) I send it as an attachment as well. These items I make exceptions for, as I'm also a fledgling webmaster. The bottom line [AGAIN] is make these things O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L! I can ignore them at my pleasure. Otherwise, as I stated earlier we would just have a re-written MS Outhouse, and . . . why bother? Granted, perhaps it might just be a bit more elegantly coded and 'more secure' than the 'privy!' -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike "The only person getting his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe!!" -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML). -- Flying in the stratosphere with The Bat! V1.61 on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: FW: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to editHTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Laura, On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:26:38 -0800 GMT (18/01/03, 00:26 +0700 GMT), Laura wrote: > and just for the record, HTML was not designed to be for web > pages only. It started long ago by IBM.. I am sorry, but this is historical nonsense. I have been to the IBM museum (forgot which state in the US that was) and saw schollkids who learned there that IBM invented the computer. Fact is, the computer was invented by Conrad Zuse (Google has more info on this German inventor), and HTML was invented by James Bernhard Lee at CERN in Switzerland. HTML is the "HyperText Markup Language" and links documents via the hypertext technology. Some people say he therefore invented the WWW (thus it *is* intended for web pages), but Xanadu claims to have had the first idea (of a world-wide web - but they didn't know anything about HTML at the time). I won't argue who invented the WWW. But HTML was never meant to be part of email, which at the time when HTML was created didn't even know anything but plain text. But then, Al Gore invented the internet... -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Spike, > the key word in all this is _OPTIONAL_! Of course! -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.61 Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
resistance is futile, html is here to stay. >> I will soon be implementing a filter that sends to trash and deletes >> any e-mail containing HTML - PERIOD! MAU> I never write/send HTML e-mail, and I don't think I will in the MAU> future. But if I implemented a filter like you intend to, I would MAU> probably loose abut 1/3 of my business e-mail. And belive me, I don't MAU> want to loose it. Ditto Miguel. there are certain advantages to it as well... including hilighting things that are important when sending out a report, and more. THINK about it. :) -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: I love the Bat , but why can't the Bat allow me to edit HTMLdocuments or read my USENET news groups. Standard Email features
Hello Miguel A. Urech, On or about Friday, January 17, 2003 at 17:38:38GMT +0100 (which was 11:38 AM in the tropics where I live) Miguel A. Urech opined: MAU> Hello Spike, >> Wanting everything rolled into one is what causes vulnerability >> and bloatware. Leave TB just as it is, a simple and efficient >> mail client, as it should be! All the things you mentioned are >> the very reason TB! is gaining poularity. We don't WANT a MS >> Outhouse clone, that's why we LEFT! MAU> You would be surprised by the number of TB users who would prefer a MAU> mail&news integrated environment. And don't be narrow minded, the fact MAU> that a program has options doesn't mean you have to use them. For MAU> example, I don't use the PGP or AV plugin options in TB. But I don't MAU> campaign to have them removed or not improved for those who use them. I'm not being narrow, the key word in all this is _OPTIONAL_! I don't use ANY anti-virus anywhere. I don't have to, as I use the best anti-virus package available, a properly informed brain! Load it (TB!) up with all the bloat you want, and you will eventually turn it into <> MS Outhouse... -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike "Black holes are where God divided by zero." -- /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates averything (HTML). -- Flying in the stratosphere with The Bat! V1.61 on Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 -- Current version is 1.62 | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
