Re: Just curious why ....
Hi Roberto, On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:55:58 -0800GMT (13/12/2001, 15:55 +0800GMT), Roberto Machorro wrote: RM I thought the calculator and sp where a joke, that some people where RM joking about it... Is it for real? They are indeed implemented in the current beta. However, the code is very small and it does therefore not qualify as bloat. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53t under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Thomas! On 13 Dec 2001 at 08:18:52 you wrote: It is happening. Stefan announced a short while ago he was writing on the newsreader. The way I understand it, it will be a plug-in, though. You don't need to load it if you don't want to use it. I for my part will. ;-) And here we are back to the main criticism by Remi: The general overhaul for more flexibility. As long as features like newsreader capabilities (and I concur that there is not much missing in TB! to get it going) are plug-ins and optionally installable, everything is fine. I am still a bit irritated by software companies that have a fine niche product deciding to make it more versatile. Most often this results in superfluous, half-ridden features that other software handles much better. That's why I don't use Agent for e-mail - although I tried for some weeks parallel to Eudora. Just read a review of CorelDraw 10 (which is always marketed together with PhotoPaint) in which the author points out the redundant bitmap processing capabilities of Draw - and right he is. - -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/14 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C He, who doth not look back, will lose his way. (Derek Leveret) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom! iQA/AwUBPBhYvPTo1oA8g8dLEQKOlwCdFdb5IUF1IOVinLTX5tmQ/xFuEBoAnipP AWoIeBYMy/2ztWtD9uV+9oKa =fgs0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Thomas! On 13 Dec 2001 at 09:12:28 you wrote: They are indeed implemented in the current beta. However, the code is very small and it does therefore not qualify as bloat. Don't you think that many small items abound to bigness? Bloat is not about the amount of code, but the usefulness in a context. therefore the calculator and the SmartPad are bloat - at the moment. And I'd rather have seen some bugfixes instead. - -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/14 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Science is the art of the soluble. (Sir Peter Medawar) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom! iQA/AwUBPBhgffTo1oA8g8dLEQLkJACeM5voBF1AmvW8lr4vBvyy1AMI/WIAoJ2j 7bQ66fn4Kba34VpSbU2Pi7vg =rvZq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Thomas! On 13 Dec 2001 at 08:23:49 you wrote: No, I think v2.0 might humbly be called v1.54. Maybe the main problem lies with the continual development . We are accustomed to pay for even minor steps up every year with major companies' software, i.e. MS Word2K-XP or CorelDraw 9-10. Small companies and single developers (shareware) tend to improve their products constantly, examples are RITLabs, Jens Fangmeier (Feurio!). They also use the originally intended version numbering scheme. Some products seem to never even get to a release number (1.0), i.e. Exact Audio Copy or Mozilla. Now, since major revisions (1.x-2.x) usually go hand in hand with new pricing and an upgrade fee it can be quite unnerving to hear that TB! 1.54 could be the first 2.0. Fangmeier some weeks ago announced a 2.0 version of Feurio! for the near future, telling us that 1.xx will not be developed further except for some driver fixes. He also told us that we won't have to pay an upgrade fee. All this therefore comes back to RITLabs' marketing, and as long as I don't get paid for it I won't tell them in that department. ;-)) If you get your climax from a version number, we are different. I get mine from functionality and, well, the interface. [Remark: This last sentence is a lie. I do have a social life, with real people in the Real World®. g] So in real life you won't get off* on functionality and interface? Are you sure you do live in the real world, or do you actually mean the world created by a software company called RealMedia? ;-) *To the moderators: Sorry, I couldn't resist. - -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/14 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Don't let a little dispute injure a friendship. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom! iQA/AwUBPBhc1fTo1oA8g8dLEQKulACg5jjTipH7kjzYb9q9Xdu/n6QpioIAoIYp dkKH5S/9atFlU6QUgjdi1kBi =Wf7B -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Januk, On 13 December 2001 at 20:15:15 [GMT-0800] (which was 04:15 where I live) Januk Aggarwal wrote to Rémi Pach and made these points: 2. I have not heard RITLabs make any comment that 1.54 will be released as V.2. I have also not heard them say that 1.54 is even close to being ready for release. Everything I've heard in that regard is speculation or extrapolation of comments made by RITLabs. Although the announcement was not made publicly by RITlabs, I was told this as a fact by Max in Cologne in November. I kept it as a confidence until Marek Mikus (also present at the meeting) made it public as a part of the write up of the User Group meeting. I hate to ruin the party, but, it's only software. What do you mean only ;-) LOL. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / ' TB! v1.54 Beta/15-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness iD8DBQE8GIKdOeQkq5KdzaARAtTqAKDpYmpeyBOrj8DGl2UV6GfUwBSOFQCff8iO yCI/69G7FncNo1hkn+L8Bps= =P56T -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
@ 15:23:49 +0800 [ Thu, 13 Dec 2001], Thomas F [TF] contributed this to our collective wisdom: ... TF No, I think v2.0 might humbly be called v1.54. Exactly so. A typical company would have had TB! at about version 6 if they'd done the sort of development and enhancements that I've seen since using TB!. Ritlabs will do major changes and then move from v1.xy to 1.x(y+1). Sometimes I wonder if this is wise. It will make users uninterested in upgrades or give them the impression that there's nothing much added and that it's just a bug fix release or something. I tend to be like that with software that I don't really follow because incremental movement in version numbers are usually associated with only minor enhancements. TF As already outlined by others, I believe that many (not few) of TF the major innovations promised for v2 have already been TF implemented in the current versions (including beta). If you get TF your climax from a version number, we are different. I get mine TF from functionality and, well, the interface. LOL Software produces climax. TF [Remark: This last sentence is a lie. I do have a social life, TF with real people in the Real World®. g] Yes, but does TB! give you climaxes?? ;-) .. I concur with Marck and Januk that their development course has been impressive though the progress of version numbering has been a MOST humble one considering all the enhancements and improved functionality since v1.31 when I came on board. Of course, I'm supposed to be one of the biased ones as well, right. I don't think so. If I saw another e-mail program that worked better for me then I'd be *gone*. -- ©Allie C Martin -- List Moderator and fellow end-user PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 [MUA: TB! v1.54 Beta/15 (*) OS: Win2K SP2] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
@ 06:58:27 -0500 [ Thu, 13 Dec 2001], Allie C Martin [ACM] contributed this to our collective wisdom: ... ACM I concur with Marck and Januk that their development course has been ACM impressive... ^ chuckle This should have been 'TB!'s' and not 'their'. -- | ©Allie Martin - Moderator o|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/15 Win2K SP2 PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Rémi, On 12 December 2001 at 16:49:09 [GMT+0200] (which was 14:49 where I live) Rémi Pach wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and made these points: RP Let me quote: If you really want to, you're welcome, but the truth is, time has passed and the best laid plans of mice and men Reality caught up and the goalposts have moved in the time that has gone between the interview and the development schedule. I can easily understand and accept that. What's more, not *all* of the intended facilities will be in V2.0. Many will not appear until V2.1. That's not unacceptable nor even anything other than a computer industry norm. RP Version 2 will have an alternative editor which will be fully RP compatible with Windows editors, but it will have extra features RP like optional virtual space. It might even just be a plugin. This goal has been replaced by the need to support HTML authoring. The new editor will have to support that first and foremost. I don't know if the plan is to support additional options to pander to those with a virtual space phobia. It may. I doubt that it will be a plug in. RP We are planning to make the Linux version when Delphi for Linux RP will be available (this year, as promised by Inprise, Inc). Done. RP Plugins: Yes, that is true. It will be possible to extend The RP Bat! using DLLs AND scripts. Not yet done, but part of the V2 development curve. RP Almost everything will be plug-in/script driven (menu items, RP toolbar buttons, macros, filter actions etc. included). Not the way it worked out (shrug). RP Non-fixed-width font: Yes. Done. RP Redefinable shortcuts: Yes. To be done. RP PGP: PGP messages will be handled in a completely different way RP :-) (whatever that was supposed to mean). Done. RP Encryption of attachments to encypted e-mails: Yes. S/MIME covers that for now. Because of the uncertain future of PGP, the lack of a PGP v7 SDK, the poor cooperation available from the Gnu clique and GPG, PGP/MIME support is still on the wish list. RP Newsreader: We still have not decided on what it will look like - RP as a plug-in or as a built-in function... I have no idea what is happening with that. RP Scripting: I guess, we will end up making it possible to add a RP script language plug-in so users can choose what scripting RP language they'd like to use :-) Instead, the Macro language has been beefed up and the filter system is turning into something that looks like a scripting engine. RP Hooks for virus scanning: Yes. This is done. RP Improvement of IMAP 4 support: Yes. :-) This one's a bit of a problem child. There's a bit of a mismatch between the goals of an extreme off-line client like TB and the on-line folder management requirements of pure IMAP4. I really don't know what I'd do as a software engineer given the choice of keeping the integrity of the local mail management facilities and having to support remote mail management for IMAP. It's a rock and a hard place issue. RP Words, of course, are cheap. If version 2 can be defined from the RP above, we are still very far from v2!... I couldn't disagree more. You are completely wrong. More than 50% of the goals you have listed above have been met. That doesn't constitute far off. You have also edited out the list of features you know have already been met - that puts it closer still. Of the others some features have been either written off or postponed but remain part of the V2 development curve. RP I am not running the current beta, so I may be missing a few RP things, More than a few. Before writing at such length, perhaps you should have looked? RP but all in all it looks like TB's development is not following any RP well-defined path and the revolutionary V2 will be a mere RP offspring of v1.53 with a few gimmicks, including (lo and behold) RP a calculator and a scratchpad! Your cynicism is noted but not warranted. The truth is that 1.54 is almost certain to be released as the first V2 early next year. RP Strange. V2 had been announced as being built from the group up: Q: v2.0 is rumored to have been built from the ground up (not from version 1.x), is this true? R: Well, almost. There are only a few things that will not change too much. Well almost. You call that announced, do you? I think not. Besides, much has actually /been/ re-written from the ground up. The message base handling (1.42), the sorting office (1.54), the message viewer (1.54), the HTML rendering engine (1.54), an editor (1.54). The truth remains that 1.53 contained many V2 features already. Many more have been added to make a preliminary v2 release set. That was nearly two years ago... I rest my case. You do. Not very strong, is it? g - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www:
Re: Just curious why ....
Hello, In an interview with Stefan Tanurkov published on your web site at http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/interview.html, the author himself announced the following features and the imminence of the first beta release (that was in January 2000). Let me quote: Plugins: Yes, that is true. It will be possible to extend The Bat! using DLLs AND scripts. Scripting: I guess, we will end up making it possible to add a script language plug-in so users can choose what scripting language they'd like to use :-) Yes, please! -- Regards, Bernhard Kohl -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:30:27 +0200GMT (which was 20:30 +0100GMT where I live), Rémi Pach thought about Just curious why and wrote: I couldn't disagree more. You are completely wrong. More than 50% of the goals you have listed above have been met. That doesn't constitute far off. RP It does because the things that have *not* been implemented are RP precisely those that would have made TB v2 radically different from TB RP as it was in 2000. Hi Rémi, why do you need a radically different mail agent? I'm very content that TB! is continuously improved. ;o) RP I won't argue with you. You appear to be biased. Maybe I'm biased too. But if I am it is because I like the development I see with TB!. :o) - -- Cheers Peter * This message was created using The Bat!, version 1.54 Beta/15, under Windows 98, 4, 10, build 67766222, on a Pentium II machine at 200MHz, 64 MB RAM :-) . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GnuPG for better authentication. Key-ID: 0xE10774CE iD8DBQE8F7LRAzZSBuEHdM4RAvimAKDUdj4NjQ3WIF8pWsxwG2Uxm72zegCfTB7D IrLdbiA5Mq4s/zSsFUENb8s= =oplX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:01:02 +0200GMT (which was 21:01 +0100GMT where I live), Rémi Pach thought about Just curious why and wrote: why do you need a radically different mail agent? I'm very content that TB! is continuously improved. ;o) RP I am also happy overall with TB as it is. RP ... RP There is a sense of anticlimax. RP Nothing more, nothing less ;-) Yes, Rémi, I see. I haven't been around with TB! so long (my first version was 1.49), so it may very well be that expectations were higher then than they are now... So I can understand your disappointment. Btw. funny way of dutaint's working: I didn't receive my message that you replied to yet, but I received your reply... ;) - -- Cheers Peter . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GnuPG for better authentication. Key-ID: 0xE10774CE iD8DBQE8F70tAzZSBuEHdM4RArO1AJ4igeEnOsbAnVT7V6PemMXi06dreACggBsF 1kjG0EFPNxZAPlzEydL94Us= =mXP3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
Hello Rémi, Historians believe that Wednesday, December 12, 2001 at 22:01 GMT +0200 was when, Rémi Pach [RP] typed the following: RP I am also happy overall with TB as it is. Don't get me wrong. Your posts suggest that you are very discontented. Perhaps it is because your posts haven't mentioned any *good* things about TB or it's development. They seem to be biased towards the negative. RP I don't need anything radically different. Then why the fuss? RP It's just that after all the hype about v2, and all the promises RP that were made, it looks like we are going to end up with a 1.54 RP version pompously called 2.0 but that will have *very* few of the RP major innovations promised for v2. How did you come to that conclusion? 1. You've stated that you haven't tried the beta series. As Marck said, many things have been completely rewritten. Add up all the changes that have occurred since the interview and the current beta and you'd see that we have seen a *lot* of what was promised. Sure, you can pick your pet example of what has *not* been done yet, but why don't you look at what has been done instead? It helps keep the stress meter down. ;-) 2. I have not heard RITLabs make any comment that 1.54 will be released as V.2. I have also not heard them say that 1.54 is even close to being ready for release. Everything I've heard in that regard is speculation or extrapolation of comments made by RITLabs. 3. Don't forget, a lot of that hype was not generated by RITLabs. Most of it was from enthusiastic users. :-) RP There is a sense of anticlimax. I hate to ruin the party, but, it's only software. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal Trigonometry for farmers: swine and cowswine. -- Erland G. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
Roberto, Wednesday, December 12, 2001, 9:49:30 PM, Roberto wrote: RP Newsreader: We still have not decided on what it will look like - RP as a plug-in or as a built-in function... MDP I have no idea what is happening with that. Roberto I *really* hope it doesn't happen. If TB is a MUA, it should be just Roberto that. If people want a newsreader, it should be a separate client. Roberto Doing one thing and doing it right is what has taken TB to where it Roberto is: The best (POP3) e-mail client this side of the galaxy. I very much look forward to newsreader capability in TB. But I understand your counter to that as well. Perhaps it's just the wish that all of one's communications tools could perform like TB that is intriguing. -- Best regards, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Environment: theBat! version 1.54 Beta/9 Windows Windows NT 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
Hello Roberto Machorro, On Wednesday, December 12 2001 at 06:49 PM PDT, you wrote: RP Almost everything will be plug-in/script driven (menu items, RP toolbar buttons, macros, filter actions etc. included). MDP Not the way it worked out (shrug). Good. I know most TB users are 'power users', but adding full configurability also adds bloat and slows things down. I prefer being able to have a powerfull e-mail client that runs on my beat up 486 as well as my new PIII. Negative! I don't want someone else dictating to me what icons I have to work with. I and many others would much rather have the ability to configure TB! to our own needs, and I'm sure RITLabs can do so without adding bloat. What adds bloat... and something you failed to mention... are things like a calculator and scratch pad. -- Nick -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=- Win 98SE | PGP 7.1 | Becky v2.00.07 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
Hi Roberto, On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:49:30 -0800GMT (13/12/2001, 10:49 +0800GMT), Roberto Machorro wrote: RM You mean that there is a TB running natively under Linux as we read RM this e-mail? (beta or whatever) Not quite yet. TB is being recoded from Delphi 2 to Delphi 6, module-by-module (that is part of the current beta series). Once this is completed, it can be compiled for Linux. RP Newsreader: We still have not decided on what it will look like - RP as a plug-in or as a built-in function... MDP I have no idea what is happening with that. RM I *really* hope it doesn't happen. It is happening. Stefan announced a short while ago he was writing on the newsreader. The way I understand it, it will be a plug-in, though. You don't need to load it if you don't want to use it. I for my part will. ;-) FWIW I was initially against a TB-newsreader, too. However, I read very little news, and I used to have a unix shell account with my ISP. My newsreader was tin. For security reasons, they have now discontinued shell access. I had the choice of a number of recommended newsreaders, but I would rather read my few newsgroups in TB. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53t under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
On 12/7/2001, Marc van Breemen wrote: I'm a former Calypso user which is, as you maybe know, now orphaned by the owner. So let's say it's dead. Now I am looking for the best replacement. Two email clients are left in my search: Becky and The Bat. Both are extremely good. Greetings, fellow former Calypso user! BUT: I want a email client that will last for a long long time. I don't want to start using a email client again that will be discontinued at some time. Can I rely on RitLabs that they introduce The Bat version 2 in the very near future? They are building it for more than two years now. Still no beta to see, that is not really promising. It doesn't bother me that much -- TB does what I need it to do for now, any any new features, to me, are nothing but gravy. I'll agree that the pace of development has been a little slow, but they are a small company. I also believe that they don't follow the oft-used practice of releasing new versions that are often little more than betas, and letting the public at large be unwitting beta testers (can anyone say Microsoft?). MCS, the former developer of Calypso, also promised to introduce new versions and then suddenly pulled the plug out; because: You can't beat Outlook. Why wouldn't this happen with The Bat? Why not?. I've heard different stories about why MCS pulled the plug on Calypso. Judging from posts made by Calypso tech support to the Calypso email list I belonged to, they were pretty much caught by surprise by the decision to discontinue the product. Can anybody explain me why RitLabs introduces new features (like common folders) in an 'old' version (version 1.xx) when they are very (I hope) busy with finishing (I hope) version 2.? If I were them I put all my effort in completing version 2 and, besides solving the serious bugs, quit developing version 1. Why not? Tell me, why not? I think it's a convenient way to get early test results on features planned for v2.0. As I understand from my brief time on this list, v2.0 is going to be a major rewrite. By putting new features in the current 1.x series they can get feedback on problems, etc, before introducing the features into 2.0. This way their users will get a more stable v2.0 right off the bat (no pun intended). -- Regards, Don Zeigler ...Bother, said Pooh as Piglet came back from the dead. Irritating tagline brought to you by The Bat! 1.53d at 10:09:17 AM on Saturday, December 08, 2001 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
Hello Marc, hi list, On Friday, December 07, 2001 'Marc van Breemen' wrote: Can I rely on RitLabs that they introduce The Bat version 2 in the very near future? I don't belive it will be finished within the next three or four months. but really nobody knows that exactly. Probably even ritlabs doesn't know. They are building it for more than two years now. Still no beta to see, that is not really promising. [...] Can anybody explain me why RitLabs introduces new features (like common folders) in an 'old' version (version 1.xx) when they are very (I hope) busy with finishing (I hope) version 2.? If I were them I put all my effort in completing version 2 and, besides solving the serious bugs, quit developing version 1. Why not? Tell me, why not? Why is everyone so focused to the version 2? If a program works well and solves all my problems it can be a version 0.1, version 0.9 or 10,000. And if I don't like a program and they call it version 2000 XL, it won't become better! So be happy about a great mail-client in version 1.xx! -- Greetings, Nils Using The Bat! 1.53t on Windows 98 4.90 Build 3000 Sorry if my English is not that well. But it is not my first language. Hope you understand what I wanted to say. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
@ 10:17:51 -0500 [ Sat, 8 Dec 2001], Don Zeigler [DZ] wrote these words of wisdom: ... DZ It doesn't bother me that much -- TB does what I need it to do for DZ now, any any new features, to me, are nothing but gravy. I'll DZ agree that the pace of development has been a little slow, I disagree here and am of the view that the pace of TB! development has been very quick. A LOT has happened to TB! since I started using it in 1999 and the version then was 1.31 (I think).:-) It's just that the version numbers have been going up in much smaller increments when compared to other software undergoing similar enhancement/development. For example, when the message base format for TB! was changed, the version number moved from v1.41 to v1.42. When the interface got a face lift in terms of the consolidation of options and the CC, the version number jumped from 1.52 to 1.53. There are numerous other examples of major enhancements being reflected by small increases in version number including: Numerous new macros and making macro recursive. Message List Colouring Backup/Restore and Synchronising functionality GnuPG Support Message memos. Source viewer Kill-filter revamping There are even more radical enhancements that are being tested in the v1.54 betas and this is only a move from v1.53. So, if you're going to assess development based on version numbering. you'll be sorely disappointed. Though v2 has been long in coming, I've been quite content since development has certainly progressed in the interim. Many are however impatient because v2 is slated to have some important interface enhancements such as customisable toolbars, remappable keyboard shortcuts, an alternate editor, plug-in support among other things. -- | ©Allie Martin - Moderator o|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/15 Win2K SP 2 PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 __ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Allie, On 08 December 2001 at 12:47:15 [GMT-0500] (which was 17:47 where I live) Allie C Martin wrote to Don Zeigler on TBUDL and made these points: ACM Many are however impatient because v2 is slated to have some ACM important interface enhancements such as customisable toolbars, ACM remappable keyboard shortcuts, an alternate editor, plug-in ACM support among other things. The truth is that 1.54 is almost certain to be released as the first V2 early next year. It will only contain a completion of the feature set we're already testing for that release and /possibly/ a gesture in the direction of customisable toolbars. The other features you list, although generally hinted at being slated for V2, probably won't see the light of day until around v2.1. There is a credibility issue in saying This is V2, since a major percentage of the features originally promised for that version will have been implemented and tested piecemeal in the V1 series. RIT have already suffered enough skepticism for not having released V2 after having first discussed the feature set for it nearly two years ago. The main icing on the cake features above and beyond what's there now will be (AFAICS) new sorting office, new HTML renderer, new editor with HTML authoring (don't yell at me; it's not my fault; blame the magazines that mark TB down in the reviews for not having it - do you want RITlabs to survive or not? even though the rest of the world is just beginning to realize that HTML mail is actually a BAAAD thing (tm) - I'm certainly not going to be using it), global folders, customisable toolbars (in theory) plus the stuff we already have - CC, GPG, new mailbase. Oh yes. You already said that. And it's already been rebuilt using Delphi 6 which means that they're getting ready to port to Linux soon after. Anyway. This is mostly on good authority rather than conjecture. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / ' TB! v1.54 Beta/15-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness iD8DBQE8ElrAOeQkq5KdzaARAi4+AJ4zbyKU1+13cMBAWeaAgYD7YWxlOACg9tMK WpbCp4v6zMXD2othuWw3Leg= =Wk9F -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
On 7 Dec 2001, 1:40:12 PM, Marc van Breemen wrote: Can anybody explain me why RitLabs introduces new features (like common folders) in an 'old' version (version 1.xx) when they are very (I hope) busy with finishing (I hope) version 2.? If I were them I put all my effort in completing version 2 and, besides solving the serious bugs, quit developing version 1. Why not? Tell me, why not? It's been suggested on the Beta list that current development is beta testing of version 2. -- Dwight A. Corrin P O Box 47828 Wichita KS 67201-7828 316.263.9706 fax 316.263.6385 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.54 Beta/15 on Windows NT version 5,1 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Dwight! On 7 Dec 2001 at 20:52:07 you wrote: It's been suggested on the Beta list that current development is beta testing of version 2. To clarify, Maxim seems to have told in Cologne that v.2 is under way for the early months (even January) of 2002. Since it has long been known that 2 will be in Delphi 6 and the current beta series is essentially a test for 1.xx ported to Delphi and a new HTML rendering engine - with some new features implemented and some hints for new features some of conjectured we may be testing betas for version 2. When I wrote it replying to a message by Marck it was half jokingly. - -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/14 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for your actions. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom! iQA/AwUBPBEm/vTo1oA8g8dLEQJVGwCgrAGfnZdWynrLbBmJEMQ0EYVoOnYAoNQx oAux7n/Wrcg1QHaNn5i4Pdic =xPa9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Just curious why ....
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Marc! On 7 Dec 2001 at 20:40:12 you wrote: BUT: I want a email client that will last for a long long time. I don't want to start using a email client again that will be discontinued at some time. Can I rely on RitLabs that they introduce The Bat version 2 in the very near future? TB! like Opera has been around quite a while now, is definitely developing and is not just technologically but also marketingwise promising. In short: It seems to get off the ground just now. That does mean that RITLabs may actually live from their sales, which would mean TB! will be around quite a while. All this is pure conjecture, nobody can be sure how long a software product - or any other - will be around. Agent has been called dead for years and it is still alive and kicking (there's even a beta for version 1.9). MCS, the former developer of Calypso, also promised to introduce new versions and then suddenly pulled the plug out; because: You can't beat Outlook. Why wouldn't this happen with The Bat? Why not?. THe question for me is, does a product fit my needs? At the current stage I won't abandon either Opera or TB! or Agent just because it is discontinued (neither is). All have there shortcomings but all do what I want for a broad spectrum. I'd look for replacements when something comes up which is not supported. In TB!'s case it would be, for instance, IMAP. Should I need it and TB! can't offer, I'd have to change. Can anybody explain me why RitLabs introduces new features (like common folders) in an 'old' version (version 1.xx) when they are very (I hope) busy with finishing (I hope) version 2.? If I were them I put all my effort in completing version 2 and, besides solving the serious bugs, quit developing version 1. Why not? Tell me, why not? They work like it should be, while developing the new version they put in suitable features for testing purposes into the current series. One of the great advantages of small companies and shareware is the continuos developing cycle. Not like MS or Corel, were users get a few big bug fixes/patches and once in a year they have to depart from a big amount of cash to get the one new feature they need. The problem of how to handle version 1 has been discussed a few times. How about this argument: Why should I buy v.2 when v.1 is enough for me? Just for the bug fixes, which won't be done any longer in v.1, because it is discontinued in favour of v.2? This, BTW, was a very big issue in Opera newsgroups. Seriously, does TB! currently fit your needs? Are there any outstanding features essential for you? If you answer yes for the second question you should be worried about continuation. Ask about the feature and we may be able to help you get off your worries. A personal comment: I am of the impression RITLabs does a great job not just in programming but also in continuity, marketing, service and customer relation. I trust they will be around for some years with their main product. But I do say the same for Amazon.com ... Hope that helped a bit. - -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/14 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C A great truth is a statement whose opposite is also a great truth. (Niels Bohr) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom! iQA+AwUBPBEqzvTo1oA8g8dLEQLHVQCfV6Y21h43U7jknp5888MRyB6E4UEAl2v2 vxrL90RJhOqgDFggVPbNe94= =4Zzs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
