Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne, On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 03:46:57 + GMT (27/10/02, 10:46 +0700 GMT), Anne wrote: Yahoo lists also suffer some mail loss and some users don't receive the messages even when they are set to do so, This is a problem I haven't encountered, but I've heard of it. and finally the Yahoo web interface adverts are irritating and intrusive. Well, they offer a free service to subscribers, it needs to be paid for somehow. The alternative would be to charge for membership - I prefer the ads. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Wrinkled Was Not One of the Things I Wanted to Be When I Grew Up. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Sunday, October 27, 2002 at 4:23:48 AM you wrote: I think a certain amount of discussion is needed before something is tried, Try living happily in Germany ... -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Don't believe all you hear, spend all you have or sleep all you want. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Sunday, October 27, 2002 at 7:31:06 PM you wrote: I'll stick in England thanks Dierk ;-) I more than understand that ... -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Second Marriage: Another instance of the triumph of hope over experience. (Samuel Johnson) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Saturday, October 26, 2002 at 11:39:11 AM you wrote: I still feel that there needs to be someting more basic which answeres the questions of total beginners, and Marck's new Beginners Zone and a forum will help address that need. The FAQ. Let's get that straight, it was asked for opinions on a message board. I gave mine with some points which have to be thought of: 1. I don't think message boards are the place an absolute beginner will go to. 2. Information about *where* to find help is much more important than another forum. 3. It is best to try out what you try to learn, hence mailing list for e-mail. 4. To answer questions one has to know the answer. If seasoned TB users aren't on the message board, beginners won't get answers. 5. From the above follows that a message boards can become quickly an unpaid support department of RITLabs since only a few people answer the same questions over and over again. When beginners aren't beginners anymore they will leave. On these MLs nearly all of us started out as beginners and are now seasoned; we stay here to help *mutually*. 6. Message boards are only useful if they either aren't frequented very often or you be there always. For a pay-per-minute user the last option is not viable. 7. Instead of just having TB open and working with it you need to have open your browser, too. 8. If one wants a message board, just start it and see what happens. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C You have to be able to stand living with the tensions of opposites. (Niels Bohr) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Saturday, October 26, 2002 at 11:46:49 AM you wrote: It'd be nice to see users told that TBUDL exists via the forum and when forum users feel they are ready to join it then I'm sure they will if they are interested enough in exploring TB to a greater depth. Well, I don't think there is an argument about all our differing views, mostly it's a matter of taste. I just tried to point out the problems being faced. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Ist es nicht seltsam, dass Sprachlosigkeit sich immer in TV-Interviews niederschlägt? (Aleks Papst) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Anne, 26-Oct-2002, 11:21 Anne [A] in mid:19452994068.20021026112131;gmx.co.uk said: DH 6. Message boards are only useful if they either aren't DH frequented very often or you be there always. For a DH pay-per-minute user the last option is not viable. A I rather think Dieter's message about how the German message A board works gives credance to the idea. The German market for TB is the biggest in the world. Dieter's work in marketing TB there has given rise to a use base that I would guess is at least twice as large as the rest of the world put together. Maybe even more than that. This means that there are many more German speakers using TB than any other language. A There are boards in German and French already as has been posted A elsewhere on TBUDL, so why the big deal against having one in A English? I don't think there's a big deal here. There are opinions, freely given, about how people feel about boards themselves. I don't like them. Dierk doesn't like them. You do. Others do. Don Ziegler is already in the process of creating one. So there is going to a board in existence by early next week. Personally, I wish it every success. I shall rarely be there - boards don't suit my Internet use profile. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v1.62/Beta7 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9unOeOeQkq5KdzaARAtJQAJ0e3nugb/kkUDImwb56tBdc+q10xQCgg1pL VzL8jGSW1oQQL4GZf16GdZw= =wLJ9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Anne, 26-Oct-2002, 12:05 Anne [A] in mid:19055608684.20021026120505;gmx.co.uk said: MDP The German market for TB is the biggest in the world. Dieter's MDP work in marketing TB there has given rise to a use base that I MDP would guess is at least twice as large as the rest of the MDP world put together. Maybe even more than that. This means that MDP there are many more German speakers using TB than any other MDP language. A Out of interest, was the board instrumental in that marketing or A did it come as a result of the demand from the larger user base A Marck? Almost certainly the latter from what I observe. Dieter may (or may not) wish to answer that point himself. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v1.62/Beta7 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9unygOeQkq5KdzaARAvckAKC/sagJsUIUb3fiqrsgNUaoHVK8fACgv+AZ bdlRYBgh0p7RY5UK9WVBJJY= =5XUW -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Anne, 26-Oct-2002, 12:08 Anne [A] in mid:7755829593.20021026120846;gmx.co.uk said: MDP I don't think there's a big deal here. A Sorry if I'm misunderstanding here Marck - it just comes across A that some don't want the board to exist per se rather than just A not want to use it themselves. That would deny others the choice A to use whatever support forum (in the widest sense) suits them A best. That may just be the language barrier muddying the waters. I haven't noticed anyone actually saying No, you can't do it. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v1.62/Beta7 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9un0oOeQkq5KdzaARAk6mAKCdl98pgsOI/+GRdfAOSXxAKLz7bgCgvosu ebC741D7UxcqAQtHCm7T7Do= =KssB -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Saturday, October 26, 2002 at 1:08:46 PM you wrote: Sorry if I'm misunderstanding here Marck - it just comes across that some don't want the board to exist per se Seems today I am very easily misunderstood. Let me add (again, methinks), I am *not* against a message board; I won't frequent it. I may sound a bit harsh because for the last years - and thant's nothing to do with TB, its users or these lists - ever more people only come around to discuss thinks instead of trying them out. I am all for thinking before doing something, but certain things have to be done to know what comes of it. It is the difference between logical and empirical facts. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Computer games don't affect kids: If Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. (Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:17151819464.20021026105915;freeuk.com, Barry2 [B] wrote:' B AIUI - the licence key with V1.x will not be valid for V2.x ??? AFAIK, no. There will be an upgrade charge. B In that case there will be users who will stay with their version B rather than pay extra for the upgrade. So there is a case for B having beginners tutorials / help for *both* versions and with B maybe some notes on the differences between the various B sub-versions ?? Yes, there is. However, I personally only have time for one version line and it would be the version that I currently use. B Or are we going provide little help for older versions to force B folks to upgrade ?? Personally I'd not like TB! to go down that B route !! You're not replying to an official TB! rep here. g If I choose to write support for the current version, then that's up to me. If you wish to see my ulterior motive as being one to force users to upgrade then that's your prerogative, but I assure you that's not my intent. :) My intent is to provide help to my fellow users in what way I can. I have limited time with which to do this and I'd rather stick to the current versions. If there's going to be a major overhaul in the program, I'd rather wait before writing anything. I don't want to spend precious time writing, only to find that in the next 6 months what I wrote largely doesn't apply to a version that many users, including myself are now using. With the time and resources I have to dedicate to this effort, I can only effectively provide personally documented support for the version of TB! that I currently use (I mean here 1.xx vs 2.xx versions). Of course, I wouldn't mind helping on the list with older versions though. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9upg+V8nrYCsHF+IRAmKUAKD0i2l9gcmHIT/8+SffThE4OlX4OQCg1GQ4 rYdIoXBYI6iQjrMgZJju7VM= =74OE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne, On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:25:34 +0100 GMT (26/10/02, 17:25 +0700 GMT), Anne wrote: SM Yahoo and Topica are good examples of these; you can read mail SM online or you can get it via email or both. This would probably SM work quite well for everyone, if you don't mind the ads. Oh no please! I've tried both these and they are *awful*! I really wouldn't want to inflict either on anyone - especially with the ads. I am on some Yahoogroups lists. I usually read them as individual mails, as Y!G calls it, but when I am travelling, it is impossible to follow any thread by GMX's webmail when some 200 messages from several different lists hit the same inbox every day. I then have a least the possibility to go into an internet cafe, log into Y!G and read up and participate on each or any of the lists. However, I think the difference between a webboard and a mailing list is being discussed away. Those are mailing lists that also offer web access. Different animal. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii? Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Good afternoon List Members,
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 at 13:05:30 [GMT +0200] Anne wrote:
Out of interest, was the board instrumental in that marketing or did
it come as a result of the demand from the larger user base Marck?
As Marck already pointed out: it's the latter, of course. I got a lot of
user requests for an online forum - and thus, I created one...
If people want to share experience or simply ask for help online, there
should be a way to do that. (Verbal) Contributions from members are of
high quality (mostly :-) and announcements about TB! development comes
from 1st hand...
To service corporate users/customers also (which generally don't use
message boards) I'll install a commercial ticket system (helpdesk) for
which we act as a distributor also.
--
Regards
Dieter
MUA: Ritlabs TheBat! 1.62/Beta7 [2E7F60DA]
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne, On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 at 11:34:58 [GMT +0100], you wrote: DZ I will have links to the test boards posted to the list sometime DZ Sunday, 10/27. A Great news, Don, we shall look forward to seeing and trying them A out. And thank you for undertaking this :-) Moderator Well, as Marck pointed out a couple of days ago, we believe all the relevant points (pro and con) for a message forum have been made, and Don is pushing forward on creating the forum. Let's go ahead and let this horsie pass into the next realm. :-) Thanks. /Moderator Cheers, Leif Gregory -- List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 1.62/Beta6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB. Tagline of the day: A few french fries short of a Happy Meal. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Good afternoon List Members, On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 at 13:58:10 [GMT +0200] Dierk Haasis wrote: I am all for thinking before doing something, [...] This honors you... Fact is that 80% of s/w users don't like this, don't like reading/searching before asking. A phonecall or a message means less effort for s.o. - not considering that she/he produces much more effort on the 'other side'. Of course all have to be for free... A message board puts two interesting parties together: on one side people which refuse to take a look to the help or to experiment, on the other side people being happy to share their experience with others. This enhances s/w support extensively and also gives some marketing impact. Don: So why not ask Ritlabs for permission to run a message board in English language, to use icons and logos? Just to be on the safe side. -- Regards Dieter MUA: Ritlabs TheBat! 1.62/Beta7 [2E7F60DA] OS: Windows v5.1 Build 2600 | Intel P4/2200 - Outgoing mail with possible attachments is found to be virus free - - Checked by KAV 4.0.1.14, using database update from Oct 22, 2002 - - All unannounced attachments will be automatically deleted by system - Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/26/2002, Dieter Hummel wrote: Don: So why not ask Ritlabs for permission to run a message board in English language, to use icons and logos? Just to be on the safe side. Done. :-) -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Anyone who makes an absolute statement is a fool. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Good afternoon List Members,
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 at 12:00:07 [GMT +0200] Dierk Haasis wrote:
1. I don't think message boards are the place an absolute beginner
will go to.
That's wrong as evidence shows (may be true on boards just starting,
with low number of members)
2. Information about *where* to find help is much more important
than another forum.
Help.hlp won't be used as a source for help, internet search or
phonecalls are used to save time and effort...
3. It is best to try out what you try to learn, hence mailing list
for e-mail.
that's true for all kind of support you get, wether it comes from a list
or a board - best of all is sending a complete solution because this
frees user from experiments...
4. To answer questions one has to know the answer. If seasoned TB
users aren't on the message board, beginners won't get answers.
see my other message. Not true on high frequented boards. There are
skilled users most of the time.
5. From the above follows that a message boards can become quickly
an unpaid support department of RITLabs since only a few people
answer the same questions over and over again.
Yes.
When beginners aren't beginners anymore they will leave.
Not unconditionally true. See my other message.
On these MLs nearly all of us started out as beginners and are now
seasoned; we stay here to help *mutually*.
Admitted. But still true for boards. Coexistance of MLs and boards gives
best choice on how to get most out of others.
6. Message boards are only useful if they either aren't frequented
very often or you be there always. For a pay-per-minute user the last
option is not viable.
Actually most boards offer email-notifications when s.o. anwers your
question, or offer comprehensive search functions - hence online time is
not a big problem. In the case of little budgets, mailing lists are the
best solution.
7. Instead of just having TB open and working with it you need to
have open your browser, too.
Well, this is no argument at all... Guess your browser is an important
tool to surf the internet anyway - whenever you need additional
informations.
8. If one wants a message board, just start it and see what happens.
Unrestrainedly correct.
--
Regards
Dieter
MUA: Ritlabs TheBat! 1.62/Beta7 [2E7F60DA]
OS: Windows v5.1 Build 2600 | Intel P4/2200
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_, )\__/( ,_ The Bat! Registration and Supportservice
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi Anne! In message mid:13853237258.20021026112534;gmx.co.uk on Saturday, October 26, 2002, 5:25:34 AM, you wrote: SM Yahoo and Topica are good SM examples of these; you can read mail online or you can get it via SM email or both. This would probably work quite well for everyone, if SM you don't mind the ads. A Oh no please! I've tried both these and they are *awful*! I really Why do you think they're awful? -- --Scott. mailto:Wizard;local.nu Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon XP 1900 (1.6G real, 1.9G effective) with 512MB. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Barry2! On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 4:47:03 AM you wrote: That would only happen if TBUDL and any message list covered the same ground. What is talked about here is an 'absolute beginners' forum where new users can get basic help on setting up and using TB! If a lot of people, falsely, think TBUDL is advanced (which maybe at the moment because there are relatively few beginners' questions), why not open up a TBBL AND MAKE IT KNOWN through RITLabs' download page or the ReadMe for TB? The Caps part is on purpose as I think it is much more important to give users the correct directions at the right point on where to get help! Much more important than having various fori (Latin plural and 2nd case) in different places. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Use your health, even to the point of wearing it out. That is what it is for. Spend all you have before you die; and do not outlive yourself. (George Bernard Shaw) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne! On Friday, October 25, 2002 at 5:05:22 AM you wrote: [...] instead. Right, instead. So, you have to be on both fora (sorry for the mistake in the other message -i is 2nd case, -a is plural in Latin; forum is neutral) - ML and MB. The MB needs seasoned users for the answers, just in case anybody forgot who'd have to answer the questions). -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C If all men acted from enlightened self interest, the world would be a paradise in comparison to what it is. (Bertrand Russell) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 'Lo Marck, On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:22:58 +0100 your time, you authored this: MDP I don't know if this has been made clear but the neither the TB list MDP moderators nor the TB list hosters have expressed any interest in MDP creating, hosting or moderating such a board. Accept in mid:11620280111.20021022165444;zedat.fu-berlin.de Johannes wrote: JP Should you want, we can set up the message board on the server hosting JP the TheBat-lists. Just drop me a note... :) - -- Slán, Simon theycallmesimon.co.uk ___ Faffing about with TB! v1.61 on W2K SP3 PGP Key: http://pgp.netbanger.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Privacy is freedom. Protect your privacy with PGP! Comment: KeyID: 0x5C7E8966 Comment: Fingerprint: 851C F927 0296 FF1C 70A2 474F CB6E 6FFE 5C7E 8966 iQA/AwUBPbkwq8tub/5cfolmEQJEtACdHqkHStVlTe2qzgzT2UJaPhc1aZkAoMvt HJnM8EHoZ/j0GanzFirh+HdD =/CEt -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi Marck and others! In message mid:488327688.20021025102258;silverstones.com on Friday, October 25, 2002, 4:22:58 AM, you wrote: MDP I haven't said this myself yet, but Allie has said it - I won't be MDP participating in a message board. Every time I have been forced to MDP use one, I have found the experience time consuming, cumbersome and MDP negative. I have to break off from what I'm doing and deliberately MDP log in to see what's going on there. I get notifications when one of MDP my posts gets a response but joining in otherwise is a matter of MDP vigilant monitoring. I don't have time or energy (nor a broadband MDP connection g) to do that. I haven't noticed anyone mentioning it, but there's no reason that a message board cannot also be a mailing list. Yahoo and Topica are good examples of these; you can read mail online or you can get it via email or both. This would probably work quite well for everyone, if you don't mind the ads. I agree completely about message boards, though; I don't think that anyone who has been online for any length of time will care much for them, although they are GREAT for newbies who simply want a fast answer without a commitment (subscription to mailing list), and they're generally also good for searching for a question that may have already been answered. -- --Scott. mailto:Wizard;local.nu Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 on an AMD Athlon XP 1900 (1.6G real, 1.9G effective) with 512MB. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Simon, 25-Oct-2002, 12:53 Simon said: MDP I don't know if this has been made clear but the neither the MDP TB list moderators nor the TB list hosters have expressed any MDP interest in creating, hosting or moderating such a board. Accept in mid:11620280111.20021022165444;zedat.fu-berlin.de Johannes wrote: JP Should you want, we can set up the message board on the server JP hosting the TheBat-lists. Just drop me a note... Okay, strike the hosting bit of the above. Johannes provides server space and technical support for the lists, it's true. However, all list administration is carried out by Leif, Allie and myself. A message board will still need administrators and, from what has been said both here and between us, I don't think we're actually willing to fulfil that role... Unless there is some way of having a dual list / message board (where posts to the board go to the list and vice versa). Now that I would be willing to moderate and participate in, no problem. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v1.62/Beta7 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9uTd+OeQkq5KdzaARAjg5AJkBROxInt3kzXqZDdCZc/BJZPxWHACgy3XM Y8dZNW8zMv2mY7DzPQ0YsAA= =E5EG -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 'Lo Scott, On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:15:06 -0500 your time, you authored this: SM I don't think that anyone who has been online for any length of time SM will care much for them - From my own experience, I personally believe that this is not so! My forum members are 'long-termers' and most have been online since the year dot! Many of us are well versed in all things technical and therefore can in no way be described as 'newbies', not even close. Whilst many of us have our personal preferences for methods of communicating online we all agree that forums are without a doubt valuable, important platforms for communication, and that they can meet the requirements of all levels of user, and offer enhancements to communicating that other mediums cannot provide. I wouldn't like to say how this misconception has been propagated (the idea that only Internet newbies frequent Net forums) but the Internet is amass with professional help forums and general discussion forums alike so obviously it can be dismissed without much effort. It is my opinion that there are advantages and disadvantages with every communication medium, and that having complimentary forums would only provide benefits to all levels of user, as everyone will have different requirements. Should the initiators take their roles seriously then another useful resource will be made available to a wider audience and I don't see how others can be negative about that. The sooner forums emerge the better IMO. - -- Slán, Simon theycallmesimon.co.uk ___ Faffing about with TB! v1.61 on W2K SP3 PGP Key: http://pgp.netbanger.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Privacy is freedom. Protect your privacy with PGP! Comment: KeyID: 0x5C7E8966 Comment: Fingerprint: 851C F927 0296 FF1C 70A2 474F CB6E 6FFE 5C7E 8966 iQA/AwUBPbk+B8tub/5cfolmEQJepgCfZGAjAaBfKCgfsQpWxS5X208UUjkAoNMJ oHjXlhDl+2+lH39cimq+p8dx =v/ig -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/25/2002, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: So. Who's on first base? Me, I guess. I will be trying out a few more scripts this weekend... and will then narrow my choices down to two or three. Next, I will set up a test board for each and invite participants of this list who have expressed support for a board to look at them all. With their feedback I will choose which script to run. The next step will be asking a few people to donate their time as forum moderators. A board is not intended to replace the mailing lists but rather to act as a complement to it. My own experience has shown that many people enjoy the use of a message board; their popularity on the web proves it. These aren't just kids hanging out in forums dedicated to their favorite band or whatever... dslreports.com is an excellent example of a board at its finest with people from all age groups and walks of life participating. To those on-list who are interested in participating in the discussions or giving me a hand in moderating the forum, I say welcome and thanks. Conversely, if boards aren't your cup of tea, or if your Internet access plan precludes your joining in, my regrets. I will have links to the test boards posted to the list sometime Sunday, 10/27. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...This sentence contradicts itself: no, wait, actually it doesn't. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Good afternoon List Members,
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 at 01:37:55 [GMT +0200] Jan Rifkinson wrote:
DZ Per an earlier thread I would like to
DZ propose a message board for the purposes
DZ of promoting and discussing the Bat. [...]
I'm sorry. I don't get it. What's the
advantage to that over this forum?
And for those who pay per minute or are not
working with cable, DSL, ADSL, etc, it
would be expensive a giant pain wouldn't
it?
Actually our official German forum is frequented by more than 1300
members and well accepted - more than I ever expected. It is an
additional 'channel' for users who want fast response/solutions on
problems w/o the need to subscribe to a list. We have very skilled users
who could be found there every day helping people having trouble with
their batling.
Additionally an FAQ server was set up which is maintained by several
'mods'. A ticket system will follow in November to complete the support
line for German users/corp customers.
--
Regards
Dieter
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello mm, On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:54:37 -0400 GMT (25/10/02, 20:54 +0700 GMT), mm Meister wrote: In order to solve this problem for the new users, clearly they're intimidated by the industrial look of TB! - why not design a good, follow-the-steps set of tutorials that can help a new person settle in? Actually I thought about it. When you look at Eudora, you can go to any good bookshop and buy a big book called Using Eudora. But for The Bat, the book would be out of date by the time it is printed and hits the stores. To publish the tutorials on the web means constant updating, as TB's development is quite fast (or maybe it just feels that way to beta testers?), and I cannot promise the tutorial would always refer to the latest version. A tutorial based on a prior version is useless, maybe even damaging to the software's reputation (as people try out things that in the end don't work that way in the current version they just downloaded). I haven't given up the idea, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to start the project now (it will probably take a few months to write all of this), because v2 is already on the horizon and we have no idea how the interface etc will change. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me here. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:16211654890.20021025212051;gmx.net, Thomas Fernandez [TF] wrote:' TF To publish the tutorials on the web means constant updating, as TF TB's development is quite fast (or maybe it just feels that way TF to beta testers?), and I cannot promise the tutorial would TF always refer to the latest version. A tutorial based on a prior TF version is useless, maybe even damaging to the software's TF reputation (as people try out things that in the end don't work TF that way in the current version they just downloaded). This is an interesting point. For a long time, I've been thinking of writing something on TB!'s editor. I hadn't done so because I didn't want to write a page that would go defunct soon afterwards. v2 seemed just over the horizon and I'm embarrassed to say that this impression has been dragging on for over a year, hence my not creating the tutorial. The same for filtering. I was thinking of augmenting Leif's page with some other pointers and illustrations on filtering techniques. However, when we got a glimpse of the new filtering design, I put it off. The same goes for other features. I'll be waiting for v2 before I personally put together any more tutorials or support pages for any of TB!'s major features. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9uWWFV8nrYCsHF+IRArtrAKDIcl7PsGk/YEbMhH+gP495z5dyIACgoc51 f5Ll+nVMSAMOhug0YT6erHk= =saxC -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Good afternoon List Members,
On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 at 17:10:08 [GMT +0200] Thomas Fernandez wrote:
Actually I thought about it. When you look at Eudora, you can go to
any good bookshop and buy a big book called Using Eudora. But for
The Bat, the book would be out of date by the time it is printed and
hits the stores.
We _will_ publish a book in German(y). We'll use the BOD scheme to
take account of possible changes. Guess that we will refer to v2 also.
--
Regards
Dieter
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello mm, On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:14:48 -0400 GMT (25/10/02, 23:14 +0700 GMT), mm Meister wrote: (unless TheBat! someday includes automatic template creation) :0 I wouldn't rule this out... The *only* Bat in the world that uses *artificial* intelligence. ;-) I so enjoy your tag lines, Thomas. Thanks. I have over a hundred now, and each of them has been hand-picked (manually cp'ed). ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. The tides are a fight between the Earth and moon. All water tends towards the moon, because there is no water in the moon, and nature abhors a vacuum. I forget where the sun joins in this fight. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi Ricardo,
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 at 1:08:59 PM , Ricardo scibbled:
A And one *I* just thought of: The time zones.
RMR what do you mean by that?
What I MEAN is, that if there is a message board in place that there needs
to be (or SHOULD be) moderators from different time zones.
If someone is having technical difficulties with TB! and seeks help on the
message board, I would think it would be incredibly annoying to have to wait
a full day or whatever to get a response if there was no one to respond to
their query within their time zone, especially if it is one which is
hindering their use of TB!.
I am sure, given time, that many users (those knowledgeable and those
moderately knowledgeable) will frequent the board and be able to offer help
at all times of the day...
whichever time of the day it happens to be in your neck of the woods. But
until then, it would be a wise thing to have moderators from different time
zones frequenting the board.
This is ALSO to prevent any spamming or illicit postings etc. If Spammer1
visits the board and posts a bunch of crud on it, and there are no mods on
the board (or visiting it) around that time of day, it'll sit there until
a mod DOES get there. In the meantime, visitors (new TB! users, old TB! users,
curious-possible TB! users) will see this crud until it is removed. It is a
concern which must be taken into consideration whenever setting up a message
board, especially one which is not just a free for all board but is one
which provides a serious service...such as a TB! Board would.
On my boards, I have a wide variety of ass.t mgr's, and have got the time
zones pretty much covered. And believe me when I say it DOES keep the
crud down to a bare minimum whenever necessary. And while it may not
SEEM overly necessary, it IS something to consider. Especially when you
have such a broad userbase as TB! does.
I mentioned this, and I thought I was clear as to the why, at the end
of my first post:
But given the diverse patronage, I think it would be wise to have
people from different time zones moderating (assistant manager-ing) a
board... no matter WHERE it is hosted.
Since TB!'s mailing lists are pretty much covered time-zone-wise, why
should it be any different for a message board? It shouldn't.
Blessings and light,
~~~Angel
Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:50:24 AM
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TheBat! 1.60q
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| on Windows 2000 5 Service Pack 3 (Win2K Pro)
| 1gHz 40Gb hard disk 512Mb RAM
Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Angel, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:58:48 -0700 GMT (23/10/02, 23:58 +0700 GMT), Angel wrote: Folder= Non-English Discussion That's a bit broad, wouldn't you think? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. It takes money to make money because you have to copy the design exactly. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi,
Folder= Non-English Discussion
TF That's a bit broad, wouldn't you think?
Uh, it was an *example* broadly-named to represent the underlying
possibilities (ie: meant to 'spawn ideas'), NOT meant to be an actual
folder ;)
I am sure the actual subjects/folders will obviously be made/named if
and when a message board is implemented, and by whomever runs it.
Blessings and light,
~~~Angel
Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:17:30 PM
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TheBat! 1.60q
| http://www.ritlabs.com
| on Windows 2000 5 Service Pack 3 (Win2K Pro)
| 1gHz 40Gb hard disk 512Mb RAM
Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
RMR what do you mean by that? A What I MEAN is, that if there is a message board in place that there needs A to be (or SHOULD be) moderators from different time zones. of course, I guess I wasn't paying attention when reading your message :) A If someone is having technical difficulties with TB! and seeks help on the A message board, I would think it would be incredibly annoying to have to wait A a full day or whatever to get a response if there was no one to respond to A their query within their time zone, especially if it is one which is A hindering their use of TB!. I think you're taking this too seriusly, maybe. If you think a good web forum should give you a good answer before your bed time, I think this is going to be a very stressfull hobby for you. At least try to get paid by RIT ! :) In TBUDL we may have something like that because it already has a lot of subscribers from all over the world. But I wouldn't qualify a forum or discussion list as a bad one just for having to wait a day for an answer. And maybe two or three days to have several opinions and a consensus. A I am sure, given time, that many users (those knowledgeable and those A moderately knowledgeable) will frequent the board and be able to offer help A at all times of the day... given a reasonable time to grow up the forum, yes. A whichever time of the day it happens to be in your neck of the woods. But A until then, it would be a wise thing to have moderators from different time A zones frequenting the board. yes, it would be nice to have 2 or 3 moderators. But I wouldn't delay the start of the board just because there's only one moderator. It's just not so bad to have inappropriate content posted for a few hours And I think you're confusing two things: One thing is the need to have several moderators covering different time zones. The other thing is the need to have a good quantity of contributors, who can answer to questions in a timely manner. But moderators participate in discussions as any other user, and it's not their job to be 'on guard' like a doctor, waiting for a patient to arrive :) -- Ricardo M. Reyes | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (Mar del Plata - Argentina) | Usando The Bat! 1.60c Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Thursday, 10/24/2002, 5:23 PM Hi Barry2, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, at 06:09:51 [GMT +0100] (which was 10:09 PM where I live) you wrote about: 'Proposal: The Bat! Message Board' TF TBUDL is supposed to be the beginners' list. B Maybe so, but there are beginners and beginners and I think there will B be a lot of very 'green' PC users trying out TB! who would go running B back to OE at the sight of TBUDL !! What's been advocated is a gentler B introduction the the world of TB! Not as a substitute to TBUDL. I can see it coming. A question is asked on TBUDL, to get to a real answer to the question you have to dig through 15 That has been covered on the message board, responses. I really think a message would be more of a detraction than an attraction. The Moderators have a heavy volume of traffic to keep up with, why add more? My $.02 -- Your communication is greatly appreciated, Paul Ever wonder why Oprah spelled backwards is Harpo? Powered by The Bat! v1.62/Beta7 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi,
RMR of course, I guess I wasn't paying attention when reading your message
RMR :)
Tis ok.. if I could pay attention, I would be poorer than poor lol
RMR I think you're taking this too seriusly, maybe. If you think a good
RMR web forum should give you a good answer before your bed time, I think
RMR this is going to be a very stressfull hobby for you. At least try to
RMR get paid by RIT ! :)
RMR In TBUDL we may have something like that because it already has a lot
RMR of subscribers from all over the world. But I wouldn't qualify a forum
RMR or discussion list as a bad one just for having to wait a day for an
RMR answer. And maybe two or three days to have several opinions and a
RMR consensus.
Maybe. But if someone who does not subscribe to TBUDL and is preferential
to the message board, why not give them the same consideration as those who
get asap help on TBUDL? That is all I was driving at :)
I'm not taking this too seriously, I'm *being* serious about it because
a message board involves just a ltle bit more than just setting up the
scripting and plopping it on the server and waiting for traffic.
I've run a web business since '95 and hosted many message boards; including
ones on my own server. I'm sure others on the lists have done so as well,
so I am sure they know of which I speak.
Over the years if I have learned one thing about the internet, especially
involving message boards, it's: you must look at it from every angle before
jumping in. I was just giving my opinion; I STILL think it is a marvelous idea.
And I STILL will sign up for it if and when it comes to fruition. If not,
oh well. But trust me, there are many help message boards out there and
*I* have posted to a few of them... and waiting X-days for an answer WAS quite
frustrating, especially if the help or advice is needed sooner than a few
days. The ones I tend to frequent now are the ones which I KNOW I will get
an answer on within a few hours... and I think the longest, out of those
boards, I have waited was 6 hours. To wit, those are also the message
boards/forums which are still alive and well...the other ones have
died.
Since my experience on TBUDL and the other TB! lists, I have learned one
thing that separates TB! from all else and that is there IS help out there
and it IS *prompt*. Why not continue that with a message board? Because it is
inconvenient? Because it seems a tad ludicrous? No... if a message board is
set up it should continue TB! tradition of users helping users and being
friendly and prompt. THAT has been a major factor with me sticking with
TB!, as well as recommending it to others. If the message board can't
continue with this tradition then why bother?
RMR yes, it would be nice to have 2 or 3 moderators. But I wouldn't delay
RMR the start of the board just because there's only one moderator. It's
RMR just not so bad to have inappropriate content posted for a few hours
I agree with you here. But I don't think I said anything about a delay?
From the content of this thread I can count three or four people already
willing to help with the board, let alone set one up. :) As far as
inappropriate content being up on the board, that is entirely up to the
individual who owns' the board. I am sure whomever runs a TB! board will
take IT seriously.
RMR And I think you're confusing two things: One thing is the need to have
RMR several moderators covering different time zones. The other thing is
RMR the need to have a good quantity of contributors, who can answer to
RMR questions in a timely manner. But moderators participate in
RMR discussions as any other user, and it's not their job to be 'on guard'
RMR like a doctor, waiting for a patient to arrive :)
I think you read my message a little to literally. ;) Mods participate as
well as patrol. I thought I'd made that distinction :) When I wrote that,
I was talking of a message board as an idea. not of one as being already
establishedand the distinction was made re: moderators/mgr's and
persons who would patronize the board/frequent it. :)Just as with TBUDL, it
would be users helping users. :)
Blessings and light,
~~~Angel
Thursday, October 24, 2002 5:40:52 PM
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TheBat! 1.60q
| http://www.ritlabs.com
| on Windows 2000 5 Service Pack 3 (Win2K Pro)
| 1gHz 40Gb hard disk 512Mb RAM
Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
A I'm not taking this too seriously, I'm *being* serious about it because A a message board involves just a ltle bit more than just setting up the A scripting and plopping it on the server and waiting for traffic. A I've run a web business since '95 and hosted many message boards; including A ones on my own server. I'm sure others on the lists have done so as well, A so I am sure they know of which I speak. I don't know your site or your business, but I will guess that the message boards where set up to provide a commercial service (again, I'm just guessing). If that's true, then you or someone else had the responsibility to provide a service, and to do it promptly. But a TB! message board would be a hobby project, driven by voluntaries, and you can't expect certain level of service in those boards. You just hope to get it, like in TBUDL. And I think it will be a good board. -- Ricardo M. Reyes | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (Mar del Plata - Argentina) | Usando The Bat! 1.60c Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello again,
RMR I don't know your site or your business, but I will guess that the
RMR message boards where set up to provide a commercial service (again,
RMR I'm just guessing). If that's true, then you or someone else had the
RMR responsibility to provide a service, and to do it promptly.
Well, mine are set up to provide support/contact services (missing persons,
a fatal disorder, 9/11 related, alumni etc.) as well as minimal tech
support (on the Sims board). I have a couple on my personal homepages,
as well as elsewhere, which require less maintenance than the other boards.
But then again they are just just-for-fun boardsso to speak ;)
But I agree with you that if it is to provide a commercial service, then
a definitive level of responsibility is definitely there :)
RMR and you can't expect certain level of service in those boards. You just
RMR hope to get it, like in TBUDL.
Ahhh...so true. And this is why I perform seriously about serious-subject
message boards. In my own opinion, a TB! board would be something which
would definitely want to emanate that level of serviceor at least
something very close to it :)
RMR And I think it will be a good board.
Me too :D
Blessings and light,
~~~Angel
Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:55:52 PM
--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TheBat! 1.60q
| http://www.ritlabs.com
| on Windows 2000 5 Service Pack 3 (Win2K Pro)
| 1gHz 40Gb hard disk 512Mb RAM
Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Angel, On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:21:33 -0700 GMT (25/10/02, 05:21 +0700 GMT), Angel wrote: Uh, it was an *example* broadly-named to represent the underlying possibilities (ie: meant to 'spawn ideas'), NOT meant to be an actual folder ;) I see. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. - THE HOTEL HAS BOWLING ALLEYS, TENNIS COURTS, COMFORTABLE BEDS, AND OTHER ATHLETIC FACILITIES. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:9180370206.20021024180244;email.com, Angel [A] wrote:' A Since my experience on TBUDL and the other TB! lists, I have A learned one thing that separates TB! from all else and that is A there IS help out there and it IS *prompt*. Why not continue that A with a message board? Because it is inconvenient? Because it A seems a tad ludicrous? No... I agree here completely. The message boards success will hinge on how helpful it is to those who go there. Prompt replies to requests for help is definitely an important ingredient to encourage use of the board. I agree that it's not something to take lightly. There's nothing nicer than having an annoying problem, you send a message about it and while still trying to solve it in the same session, you get a reply. TBUDL is like this. :) Posting and having to wait 24 hours for a reply just doesn't cut it. It's better than nothing, yes, but it would be unacceptable. This is why the board would need dedicated participants to offer prompt help if you're all serious about getting it to successfully take off. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9uLlhV8nrYCsHF+IRAlO0AJ99nK8HYemE+yFtRb+jHcpRLifOlACg0JgC s7PfzLWt6QaUL77KYh5rTeU= =VUOB -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:17997101935.20021024225827;myrealbox.com, Ricardo M. Reyes [RMR] wrote:' RMR But a TB! message board would be a hobby project, driven by RMR voluntaries, and you can't expect certain level of service in RMR those boards. You just hope to get it, like in TBUDL. And I RMR think it will be a good board. The thing about TBUDL is that we do take moderation of this list very seriously. :) Not only from the POV of enforcing list rules, but from the POV of providing *prompt* list specific assistance as well as *prompt* help with TB! if there's none forthcoming from other members. If there's an atmosphere of prompt assistance and comraderie, then it will spread and infect the others who frequent the group. I think this is what has happened here and we ended up with something special, i.e., an effective support group running without a cash inflow from the Ritlabs support budget. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9uLseV8nrYCsHF+IRAmxfAKCQMIypVRs3JvyNuwH/MNxgckS0wQCgpGV1 d+0Q8N6G5ApbYxtto3lzW4U= =F0YY -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
ACM I agree here completely. The message boards success will hinge on
ACM how helpful it is to those who go there. Prompt replies to requests
ACM for help is definitely an important ingredient to encourage use of
ACM the board. I agree that it's not something to take lightly.
Yes... :) That was all I was trying to impress upon readers of this
thread... cos they obviously have an interest in where this will go,
and personally I love the camaraderie and prompt, friendly assistance
TB! lists offer and would love to see that weave itself over into a
message board if such board ever comes into existence.
ACM This is why the board would need dedicated participants to offer
ACM prompt help if you're all serious about getting it to successfully
ACM take off.
Absolutely. :)
I really hope it is considered, and seriously so. If such dedication and
seriousness were applied to it, I believe that a TB! Board would be a great
enhancement to the already superior TB! family of help venues on the WWW.
:)
Blessings and light,
~~~Angel
Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:40:20 PM
--
-={+}=-Senza fiduccia niente-={+}=-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TheBat! 1.60q
| http://www.ritlabs.com
| on Windows 2000 5 Service Pack 3 (Win2K Pro)
| 1gHz 40Gb hard disk 512Mb RAM
Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hallo Peter, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:34:41 -0400GMT (23-10-02, 1:34 +0200GMT, where I live), you wrote: PK On the other hand, if someone wants the change why not Usenet PK forum? This can be read on-line or off-line as desired. Can easily be spammed. Lots of e-mail harvesters. You need additional software apart from TB, since that doesn't support usenet. You're a whole lot more anonymous on usenet (you need to be for self protection) than on a list or a message board. (You need to subscribe to those and especially for a list that means you have submit a valid e-mail address.) -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Peter, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 at 19:34:41 [GMT -0400], you wrote: PK Based on your explanation of the Message Board I agree with you PK 100%. The current system is much better, especially for people not PK connected all the time (broadband). I can read it off-line. This is really more a reply of my thoughts on the thread in general than a reply specifically to you Peter. I can see value added in having a web board to support complete newbies, where they can get their feet wet. However, what I foresee in this, is that one, you're going to have to have a pretty dedicated staff of moderators who will be willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again, and two, that I am guessing that once someone decides that TB is for them, they'll graduate to the TBUDL lists. Therefore the discussion board active users will be a relatively small group always. Granted there will always be exceptions where a user just wishes to get it running enough to replace OE/LO and that's all they desire, so they'll populate neither the discussion board or TBUDL. I, for one, won't be using the discussion board, because as Marck and Allie know, I'm having a difficult enough time keeping up with moderation tasks on the three lists we run. If you all think TBUDL gets a lot of traffic, just imagine double the number of total messages when TBBETA hits a beta test cycle, not to mention trying to solve some real dome-scratchers on TBTECH. And just think, we, as moderators, have to read all the messages, regardless of whether the subject interests us or not. My reason for bringing this up, is that this is what moderators have to do, and volunteering as a moderator on a discussion board isn't a task to be taken lightly to. The quickest way to make it fail, is as forgot name mentioned, where someone volunteers as a moderator because of the initial prestige, then disappears later. My point in this, is that if you really want the discussion board, some people are going to have to take the lead and the workload of moderation to really make it work. One person isn't going to be able to do it alone. Just my $.02 worth. :-) Cheers, Leif Gregory -- List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 1.62/Beta6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB. Tagline of the day: I like cats too. Let's exchange recipes. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello List, if there is a need of a English spoken message board. I have on running since some weeks. It is a part of my TheBat Info page which is in the moment in German but will be translated to English soon. The Board is English. So let me now if there is really a need and i will configurated everything in English. -- Ciao Thomas Mailer: The Bat!1.62/Beta7 System: Windows XP 2600 - Service Pack 1 PGP: PGPckt 6.58 Build: 08 | Key: 0xBB9237A9 ICQ: 121117424 (hardly ever online) HP: http://www.thebat.int.tc/ Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Peter Kerekes wrote: On the other hand, if someone wants the change why not Usenet forum? This can be read on-line or off-line as desired. Can download only messages interested in and ignore others. It's often difficult to start a new newsgroup. If you want to start one in the traditional hierarchy such as comp.* you have to post a request for discussion. If it's felt the group is needed the request is then put to a vote; if it passes the vote then the control message is sent out to create the group. Most request for new groups in any of the traditional hierarchies are voted down. It's much easier to create a newsgroup in the alt.* hierarchy, anyone with the software capable of generating a control message (Gravity can) with a news server that will accept it, can create a new alt.* newsgroup. The problem with alt.* groups is lack of propagation... many news admins won't add new alt.* groups to their newsfeed since so many of them are created as pranks. Spotty propagation is death to a newsgroup. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Faster cars, colder beer, younger women, more money! www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Gary! On Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 7:29:07 PM you wrote: I too agree in total with Thomas, and for additional reasons, one that being a webboard is not email, or will be used by email, which is the essence of TB! Also, by using and contributing to TBUDL, one can practice with the many features in real time usage of TB, and not by replying to an HTML webboard, if that makes sense. In other words, 'ya get to use the darn thing, g BTW, this started with the reference to beginners. Do beginners - particularly the mentioned absolute beginners - really are served with a newsgroup or a message board? -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Use your health, even to the point of wearing it out. That is what it is for. Spend all you have before you die; and do not outlive yourself. (George Bernard Shaw) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Jan! On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 at 1:37:22 AM you wrote: I'm sorry. I don't get it. What's the advantage to that over this forum? Well, to people completely new to e-mailing a web site with posting capabilities (nothing more than a not-so-fancy database application) it would be the way to learn about an e-mail client without using it. A point made by Thomas F. various times whenever this issue comes up (about once in six months). -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Sooner or later the graveyards are full of everybody. (Terry Pratchett) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Peter! On Wednesday, October 23, 2002 at 7:07:07 PM you wrote: Telling what? I'm more anonymous there? I don't think I'm really anonymous there [1] That was my point. Although I do use my real name and a valid e-mail address I always get into discussions about posting anonymously or pseudonymously. I am for it (taking the international position), German users are very often against it. You surely know those policing kind ... -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. (Ambrose Bierce) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Don, Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 1:46:18 AM, you wrote: DZ The author of Pocomail (probably the best client besides the Bat) runs a DZ support forum for his program, and it sees dozens of posts daily. I thought it was a puzzle how Slaven could support people through that webboard. DZ He has a DZ handful of administrators to assist him in keeping it going, and he's said DZ it was the smartest thing he ever did to help in marketing his product. He DZ also runs a mailing list but it doesn't see much traffic, at least not in An announce list. -- Best regards, Adam Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Don, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 at 00:04:17[GMT -0400](which was 05:04 where I live) you wrote: DZ Still, although I would like to stick a Bat Board up, there's no point in DZ doing so if it just sits there with empty forums and no users. That's why I DZ posted the idea to the list; to get an indication of whether the thing would DZ be used. If I do go with it, it's just a matter of finding the best script DZ for the job, installing it on the server and setting it up. But, from what I've been understanding you to be saying in your earlier posts, the forums are more to attract *new* TB! users via search engines and such than to take users off this mailing list where I, for one, would prefer to stay as I've never really liked forums - don't know why ;-) -- Best regards, Richard Using The Bat! version 1.62/Beta6 with Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 2 and using the best browser: Opera. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Mark On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, you wrote It's also loaded with annoying pop-up and pop-under ads. I won't be going back there again. -Mark Wieder Which is why I said no to using a message board. It appears the viable learning center for newbies remains this mailing list. Elaine -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Researching Family: S L E P I C K A / S L E P I C A (loosely translates to little hen CHICKEN) H R U S K A / H R U S K O V A P E A R / P E A R Y (literal translation of H R U S K A / H R U S K O V A) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 'Lo ETM, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:23:44 -0400 your time, you authored this: E Which is why I said no to using a message board. It appears the E viable learning center for newbies remains this mailing list. That board may have ads, but others don't. None of mine do, because I hate them mostly, and the people that use them do also. So maybe 'the viable learning center for newbies' seems to have switched back to a possible message board again ;) - -- Slán, Simon theycallmesimon.co.uk ___ Faffing about with TB! v1.61 on W2K SP3 PGP Key: http://pgp.netbanger.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Privacy is freedom. Protect your privacy with PGP! Comment: KeyID: 0x5C7E8966 Comment: Fingerprint: 851C F927 0296 FF1C 70A2 474F CB6E 6FFE 5C7E 8966 iQA/AwUBPbcz5stub/5cfolmEQILzwCfSPaDYhcesjg1Aa3tIkCwcL3mJgoAoMdV kb7mSxRW50ubQBs2IlauELXs =uebl -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Mark, On Wednesday, 23. October 2002 at 16:15:37 [GMT -0700] you wrote: Thomas- Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 6:26:04 AM, you wrote: TM if there is a need of a English spoken message board. I have on TM running since some weeks. It is a part of my TheBat Info page which TM is in the moment in German but will be translated to English soon. The TM Board is English. So let me now if there is really a need and i will TM configurated everything in English. It's also loaded with annoying pop-up and pop-under ads. I won't be going back there again. thats new. have to fix that... -- Ciao Thomas Mailer: The Bat!1.62/Beta7 System: Windows XP 2600 - Service Pack 1 PGP: PGPckt 6.58 Build: 08 | Key: 0xBB9237A9 ICQ: 121117424 (hardly ever online) HP: http://www.thebat.int.tc/ Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi Dierk, On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, 10:56 AM, you mentioned about Proposal: The Bat! Message Board: D BTW, this started with the reference to beginners. Do beginners - D particularly the mentioned absolute beginners - really are served D with a newsgroup or a message board? Good question. -- Best regards, Gary Today's thought: Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you won't either. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
A And one *I* just thought of: The time zones. what do you mean by that? -- Ricardo M. Reyes | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (Mar del Plata - Argentina) | Usando The Bat! 1.60c Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, you wrote 'Lo ETM, That board may have ads, but others don't. None of mine do, because I hate them mostly, and the people that use them do also. So maybe 'the viable learning center for newbies' seems to have switched back to a possible message board again ;) - -- Slán, Only for people who want to use a board. I try my darndest not to and really don't care for them, admit I am only speaking for myself here grin. Elaine Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/23/2002, Richard Wakeford wrote: But, from what I've been understanding you to be saying in your earlier posts, the forums are more to attract *new* TB! users via search engines and such than to take users off this mailing list where I, for one, would prefer to stay as I've never really liked forums - don't know why ;-) Yes, but I value the input of others on the list... many have been on it for years, and I'm sure the topic of a message board has come up before. :-) The primary audience would be beginners, yes. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Why don't minimalists find a shorter name for themselves? www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Allie, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:20:54 -0500 GMT (23/10/02, 11:20 +0700 GMT), Allie C Martin wrote: Here's an example of one that's well developed: Here is another one that works well and is also well-frequented: http://www.batworld.de/cgi-bin/batboard/ikonboard.cgi -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. CHRISTOPHER HOPE was disappointed by the warning he spotted on a gallon container of the laboratory disinfectant Hibitane. Avoid contact with brain, it told him, thereby spoiling his plans for a fun-filled afternoon drilling holes in his skull and pouring disinfectant into them. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 9:23:04 AM, Don Zeigler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DZ Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the DZ purposes of promoting and discussing the Bat. DZ This board would be hosted on my web server and would run on either PHPBB or DZ Invision... I'm currently evaluating both and haven't decided which one I DZ like better. :-) DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? I'd much rather use a message board than a mailing list. Lots of my time is spent deleting email messages that I'm not interested in. Message boards are usually searchable, can be divided into topics, etc etc. I'm sure that your efforts to set this up would be much appreciated, but seeing as a message board is a much more professional way to support a product I'm suprised that the impetus for doing so doesn't come directly from RIT. jon -- jwayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi, Don Zeigler wrote in msgid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many forums would be required? I know that there is a German message board dedicated to the Bat. Perhaps somebody who frequents both, that board and this list, could chip in with her or his experiences. Regards, Markus -- Using The Bat! 1.62/Beta5 under Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 6 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Don, On 22-10-2002 15:23, you [D] wrote in mid:5739275965.20021022092304;donzeigler.com: D So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? I'll stick with the mailing lists, thank you. For convenience. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 1.62/Beta6 /thebat version os Windows XP 5.1.2600 /os Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hi, Don, You wrote: DZ... Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the purposes of promoting and discussing... I will link to the forum from my main page so Google will index the forum pages when it does its normal crawl. Great idea. DZ So, let me know what you think of the idea. Thanks. I would participate. I'm not knowledgeable enough to serve as a moderator. But I follow and enjoy several Rootsweb message boards and find them quite useful. P.S. Any replies to this Post, please send to TBUDL List. I am temporarily back in Outlook Express and don't know how to set a From field for that in this Client. My sister sent me a 543,000+ greeting card with all those moving images and music last night, and it crashed my system. The Bat! tried, but it froze with all kinds of warning sounds, and when I finally managed to Close the Client, I got a nice Illegal Operation Message from Windows. The first time I saw one of those 4 years ago, I thought Microsoft was planning to cart me off to jail. sigh So this morning I had a 93,000 size FWD of a newspaper article from her and decided to download it in OE--not to risk tearing up The Bat! Of course, then, two more recent messages, including Don's, downloaded here, too. Marck, Leif, Allie--please excuse me for digressing at such length from the subject. -- Mary --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 'Lo Don, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:23:04 -0400 your time, you authored this: DZ Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the DZ purposes of promoting and discussing the Bat. As I posted here mid:8131258953.20021020223212;theycallmesimon.co.uk I think that The Bat! Support Forums would be of major advantage to existing users and prospective users alike, so of course I am in agreement with the proposal to bring the forums into existence. However, I would like to see an RIT stamp of approval on this, and maybe some commitment from them to support them as well. DZ This board would be hosted on my web server and would run on either DZ PHPBB or Invision... I'm currently evaluating both and haven't decided DZ which one I like better. :-) As long as the forums support options for email reply notification, and your server is fast, and has a good uptime record, I don't see a problem. DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? Personally, I would like to see forums in a format similar to other software support sites. Many offer multilingual support on the same forums, with separate fora for say French, German, etc. users. Also, if RIT played a role in this then there could of course be sections for The Bat!, SecureBat! and, BatPost as well. - -- Slán, Simon theycallmesimon.co.uk ___ Faffing about with TB! v1.61 on W2K SP3 PGP Key: http://pgp.netbanger.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Privacy is freedom. Protect your privacy with PGP! Comment: KeyID: 0x5C7E8966 Comment: Fingerprint: 851C F927 0296 FF1C 70A2 474F CB6E 6FFE 5C7E 8966 iQA/AwUBPbVaF8tub/5cfolmEQJhlACeKsXOzP1tzdy0rixwa8buTTryLbEAoM44 sh/7lnqTjM0SuuXNJPoqTvt4 =WgCD -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:001301c279d2$0ed79e20$93e0e5cd;premiernet.net, Mary Bull [MB] wrote:' MB P.S. Any replies to this Post, please send to TBUDL List. I am MB temporarily back in Outlook Express and don't know how to set a MB From field for that in this Client. You don't have to worry about this. When everyone receives a copy of your message, it will contain the necessary Reply-to header (placed there by the list server) that will allow them to reply to the list by simply hitting the reply button. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9tVu9V8nrYCsHF+IRAm5MAKC0b/RNXud5RT7xi53U+HKY4hoWrACg4j0q 1d3aP8C9XSU+5aGcTeioprk= =dv3O -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Don, On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Don Zeigler wrote in mid:5739275965.20021022092304;donzeigler.com: DZ Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the DZ purposes of promoting and discussing the Bat. DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? To be honest, I don't have much of a preference, but I would participate. Mailing lists are quite convenient, but if there are compelling reasons to go to an online forum (I haven't followed the thread until now), I'll be there. I think that the success of any online alternative is dependent on a few factors that are not shared by all message boards. Simon described most of them in his post of today (mid:5210104218.20021022150045;theycallmesimon.co.uk). Email notification of replies to a post seems a must. One of the chief benefits of TB!'s mailing lists--thanks in part to the individuals who moderate and contribute--is the regular exposure to areas that are just outside one's interests or abilities. It induces a stretch, and one's knowledge and use of the program grows as a result. An online forum should retain that function. I think it would be helpful if the posts are not separated by a hierarchic level that defines their topic, e.g., click here for all threads relating to using filters, or to questions on redirecting mail. Instead, all posts could be threaded by user-supplied topic, and participants can filter where appropriate, if they are looking for specific information. In that way, the forum can incorporate the archive, as well. One place this approach is done well is the online forum that IBM runs for their Lotus Development Domain; the following link is for the SmartSuite office suite. (Although it looks official, the majority of answers come from other users or a group of consultants who are unrelated to IBM but design for Lotus products.) http://www-10.lotus.com/ldd/ssforum.nsf/Resources/$First?OpenDocument Don, thanks for volunteering your time and resources. -- JN Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Dear Don, Going back 15:23 22.10.2002... This server currently hosts my personal site, which has been up two months and receives several hundred hits weekly. I will link to the forum from my main page so Google will index the forum pages when it does its normal crawl. Should you want, we can set up the message board on the server hosting the TheBat-lists. Just drop me a note... Cheers, Johannesmailto:jposel;zedat.fu-berlin.de -- A New York City judge ruled that if two women behind you at the movies insist on discussing the probable outcome of the film, you have the right to turn around and blow a Bronx cheer at them. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Don Zeigler wrote... Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the purposes of promoting and discussing the Bat. I'm not sure that it really is a good idea. I mean... that'd make people look in three different places for answers when the answer could just be answered in one. I can understand that some people don't want to see a huge volume of email every day... try digest... or even try the archives. I myself was considering making a small website with better 'features' than the current archive has to help search (multi-part) or even list by certain values, such as threads and what not. So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many forums would be required? I think it'd end up meaning those that are interested in helping out with TB, and helping other users get the most will mean they then have to watch two different locations instead of just the one. I don't know about some people on here, but I know I barely get enough time to answer personal emails sometimes, let alone list emails. This server currently hosts my personal site, which has been up two months and receives several hundred hits weekly. I will link to the forum from my main page so Google will index the forum pages when it does its normal crawl. [ja@vampire ja]$ uptime 9:52am up 292 days, 23:29, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 :) I have several other servers too, but that one has the average up time. I guess another idea is to... (I know some will cringe at the idea)... create a news-bot type thing, see if it can be linked in with the list (I believe they're running mailman which does have news support I think), and then that just makes a 'copy' of the list in news format, allowing those who want to, read what they want at their leisure, along with downloading only the postings they are interested in. I guess that is just another idea in the pot. :) - -- Jonathan Angliss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 6.5.8ckt iQA/AwUBPbVn/CuD6BT4/R9zEQJKcwCfahqCVyW7zMfEOJiXedBnEhnVbnkAnjBR Bcz1uSxXZK4ZAF4tonuN4vN3 =FByD -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Tuesday, 10/22/2002, 8:28 AM Hi Don, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, at 09:23:04 [GMT -0400] (which was 6:23 AM where I live) you wrote about: 'Proposal: The Bat! Message Board' DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? No thanks, I will stick to the one stop shopping of the lists! -- Your communication is greatly appreciated, Paul IBM Marketing, well, it's IBM Marketing! Powered by The Bat! v1.62/Beta7 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Simon! On Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 4:00:45 PM you wrote: As I posted here mid:8131258953.20021020223212;theycallmesimon.co.uk I think that The Bat! Support Forums would be of major advantage to existing users and prospective users alike Is there a reason everybody interested in a message board or newsgroup is always *discussing* it? I mean, wouldn't it be a good idea to just start it and see what happens? Or is the cost and maintenance today prohibitive? -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Zoo.Write4U.de PGP keys available: mailto:Dierk.Haasis;Write4U.de?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.62/Beta6 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C A regulation can be for a fool to obey and a wise man to break. (Sir Hugh Trenchard) Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 2:23:04 PM, Don wrote in message mid:5739275965.20021022092304;donzeigler.com DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? Don, As I said in the other thread a very good idea! Yes I'd participate. Moderating - not wanting to step on the toes of others here - so yes if you're stuck for mods! Number of forums - hmmm... I'd suggest: General announcements about TB (i.e. new versions, basic info sources, support links etc.) Absolute Beginners - how to get started/setting it up/basic questions Then basic forums covering questions on specific areas e.g. Macros/Templates/Filters/Address Book/Mail Dispatcher And perhaps advanced specialist forums covering things like using TB in client/server mode, and other advanced features including all those I've not explored yet! Hopefully you would also have the option to add new forums as a need became apparent? Also, what is useful if the option to be e-mailed when someone posts a reply to a forum question - including a quick link back to the reply if possible? -- Cheers, Anne Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 98 4.10 Build A Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Jonathan, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:00:08 -0500 GMT (22/10/02, 22:00 +0700 GMT), Jonathan Angliss wrote: I think it'd end up meaning those that are interested in helping out with TB, and helping other users get the most will mean they then have to watch two different locations instead of just the one. No, I don't think so. I don't read webboards, because it is out of the question if you are on a pay-per-minute dial-up. Also, I simply do not like writing messages through an HTML interface in my browser; I prefer email. Especially when the subject is an email client. But that's my personal preference. If some people prefer to use a webboard, I won't stop them. The support might not be as extensive as it is here, but everybody can decide whether or not to participate in that board. I don't think it will harm TBUDL in any way. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Alexander Strehmel (Unterhaching): Gerade in einem Spiel, wo die Nerven blank liegen, muss man sein wahres Gesicht zeigen und die Hosen runterlassen. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 'Lo Dierk, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:17:18 +0200 your time, you authored this: DH Is there a reason everybody interested in a message board or newsgroup DH is always *discussing* it? I mean, wouldn't it be a good idea to just DH start it and see what happens? Or is the cost and maintenance today DH prohibitive? Support forums need to maintained by dedicated people, people who aren't going to sign up as moderators for the seeming prestige of it one moment and then back out a little while afterwards when they realise just how much of their time it takes to do the 'job'. After setting up and running my own forums myself for years I am all too aware of the commitment that is needed (that's why I haven't done it and why I don't want to either). I closed my public forums after running them for years simply because of the hours I was having to put in to managing them. Even the non-public forums I run now for a small group takes a fair bit of time. However, just because I can't do it and don't have the time to dedicate to it doesn't mean that others don't or won't want to. Therefore, a little prior discussion will find out who among us is prepared to put the effort it ;-) The point really is that it would be a real shame to just blunder forward without much consideration, and knock up support forums that only lasted five minutes because people simply weren't prepared for how much time and effort and commitment it took to manage them. Yes, doing it is obviously better than talking about it, and jumping in feet first is a fair way of getting forums up and running, but I suppose for me, I'd simply like to see any new support forums given a fair chance by knowing that the people running them were looking at the long term implications to them and others. It may seem that it is an idea that is being overcomplicated, but I think it deserves some prior consideration and thought. Afterall, if you don't get any support from other TB! users or RIT for that matter what would be the point? - -- Slán, Simon theycallmesimon.co.uk ___ Faffing about with TB! v1.61 on W2K SP3 PGP Key: http://pgp.netbanger.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Privacy is freedom. Protect your privacy with PGP! Comment: KeyID: 0x5C7E8966 Comment: Fingerprint: 851C F927 0296 FF1C 70A2 474F CB6E 6FFE 5C7E 8966 iQA/AwUBPbWKh8tub/5cfolmEQJt+wCggKKai3dubc8mnvIHS9D56hs2gJMAoKSf 03QMusPT+QdlsNJGlrG7OkI7 =qqmt -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 12:19:32PM -0500 or thereabouts, Joseph N. wrote: On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, Thomas Fernandez wrote in mid:14318930794.20021022232631;gmx.net: TF I don't read webboards, because it is out of the TF question if you are on a pay-per-minute dial-up. Thomas alluded to an interesting point. If there are many who pay by the minute, then an online forum would make sense only if there were sufficient benefit to outweigh the presumably fewer participants. I too agree in total with Thomas, and for additional reasons, one that being a webboard is not email, or will be used by email, which is the essence of TB! Also, by using and contributing to TBUDL, one can practice with the many features in real time usage of TB, and not by replying to an HTML webboard, if that makes sense. In other words, 'ya get to use the darn thing, g -- Best regards, Gary Atheism is a non-prophet organization Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
DZ Would you participate in a message board? No. Elaine Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:14318930794.20021022232631;gmx.net, Thomas Fernandez [TF] wrote:' TF I don't read webboards, because it is out of the question if you TF are on a pay-per-minute dial-up. When on dialup I just never used web boards because of this single issue. It's clearly for those on broadbands or those with unlimited dialup access, cheap phone rates and a lot of time to wait for the pages to load as you try to read the posts. With broadband it's a lot more feasible though not as fast as e-mail. Definitely for the person passing through for a specific reason and not for heavy regular participation. Be that as it may, if there are those who'd prefer such an interface, then by all means there's no reason why they shouldn't have one if it can be established. TF Also, I simply do not like writing messages through an HTML TF interface in my browser; I prefer email. My current grouse with using one. I don't mind doing it for the occasional support query, but not for regular contributions. But to each his own. No real sense in discussing whether or not it should be done if there's enough demand for it. Those who prefer the web board will use it. Those who prefer a mailing list will use it. Pretty much like how we choose our software and OS's eh? :) Good luck with your efforts to start one Don. I hope it runs well so that those who prefer using that interface will not have to use a mailing list when they'd prefer not to. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9tZrGV8nrYCsHF+IRAp0LAJ4+V/O4hIQqIjtErWvwsdQ0TWs+7ACfTTwt A4c9zy77ijvMxqELuHkaA5I= =/LD0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Folks, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 8:08:37 AM, you wrote: j I'd much rather use a message board than a mailing list. Lots of my Barry2 The important thing is for there actually to *be* a choice ?? Often, a discussion forum is sent as both a mailing list and a newsgroup, with a gateway doing the cross-posting. This lets people access the discussions in whatever manner they prefer. A question that might be worth focusing on is what discussion groups are needed. tbudl is a very general discussion. As has been raised elsewhere, perhaps there should be a distinction between new-users and advanced-users? Perhaps there should be a separate list for people who offer TB support? d/ - Dave Crocker mailto:dhc2;dcrocker.net TribalWise http://www.tribalwise.com Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dave, 22-Oct-2002, 11:29 -0700 (19:29 UK time) Dave Crocker [DC] in mid:711462942.20021022112900;dcrocker.net said: DC Often, a discussion forum is sent as both a mailing list and a DC newsgroup, with a gateway doing the cross-posting. This lets DC people access the discussions in whatever manner they prefer. True, although a message board is somewhat outside of either of these more traditional media. I hate using message boards myself. I much prefer the streaming method of the mailing list where you can tune in and out of conversations pretty easily. That doesn't mean I don't accept the points raised - that not everyone hates them and that such a forum only serves to increase product visibility. DC A question that might be worth focusing on is what discussion DC groups are needed. tbudl is a very general discussion. As has DC been raised elsewhere, perhaps there should be a distinction DC between new-users and advanced-users? This has traditionally been the separation between TBUDL and TBTECH. DC Perhaps there should be a separate list for people who offer TB DC support? I don't see why TBTECH can't double up with that function - it's the place where the more technical discussions occur. If there is a need for a separate supporter's list (i.e., I think it's a great suggestion - a place for the more knowledgeable to throw around support issues before coming back to the users with a definitive response), I guess we can set one up on yahoogroups or, if there's no requirement for immediacy of turnaround I could host one here at silverstones.com. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator TB! v1.62/Beta7 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1-nr1 (Windows 2000) iD8DBQE9tayHOeQkq5KdzaARAnXZAKD0e+c5j/kVXUtSKOpN5J4C05zAKACfVgzj i4WdKYbpVCSH5DLRp6Fdpzc= =BPlr -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Don, Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 9:23:04 AM, you wrote: DZ Per an earlier thread I would like to propose a message board for the DZ purposes of promoting and discussing the Bat. DZ This board would be hosted on my web server and would run on either PHPBB or DZ Invision... I'm currently evaluating both and haven't decided which one I DZ like better. :-) DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? DZ This server currently hosts my personal site, which has been up two months DZ and receives several hundred hits weekly. I will link to the forum from my DZ main page so Google will index the forum pages when it does its normal DZ crawl. DZ So, let me know what you think of the idea. Thanks. I am a user only and are not that familiar with all the technicalities. Is message board same as a Usenet Forum? similar to alt.usenet.off-linereader.forte-agent or do we have to go somewhere else for the messages? -- Best regards, Petermailto:pkerekes;ca.inter.net Using The Bat! v1.62/Beta4 on Windows 98 We will either find a way, or make one. -- Hannibal Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Gary, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 at 12:29:07[GMT -0500](which was 18:29 where I live) you wrote: G I too agree in total with Thomas, and for additional reasons, one that G being a webboard is not email, or will be used by email, which is the G essence of TB! Also, by using and contributing to TBUDL, one can practice G with the many features in real time usage of TB, and not by replying to an G HTML webboard, if that makes sense. In other words, 'ya get to use the G darn thing, g Perzactly. 100% agree :-) -- Best regards, Richard Using The Bat! version 1.62/Beta6 with Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 2 and using the best browser: Opera. Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hallo Peter, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:45:31 -0400GMT (22-10-02, 23:45 +0200GMT, where I live), you wrote: PK I am a user only and are not that familiar with all the PK technicalities. PK Is message board same as a Usenet Forum? similar to PK alt.usenet.off-linereader.forte-agent or do we have to go PK somewhere else for the messages? It's no usenet. It's a website where you can read messages via a html page. It's comparable to the current archive (see: http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl;thebat.dutaint.com/ ), but with the possibility to post messages. Compare it with a crossover between hotmail and the list-archive. Depending on the settings and the used program the board can be accessed with logging on or with logging on with a personal account. IMNSHO It's a waste of time and effort. A list like this beats a message board with two hands tied on the back. -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Tuesday, 10/22/2002, 4:34 PM Hi Roelof, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, at 01:06:58 [GMT +0200] (which was 4:06 PM where I live) you wrote about: 'Proposal: The Bat! Message Board' RO Compare it with a crossover between hotmail and the list-archive. RO Depending on the settings and the used program the board can be RO accessed with logging on or with logging on with a personal account. Sounds like a semi-blog setup. I am a member of several blogs. I have a throw away address that I use for them. I see a lot of spam on that address. E-mail harvesters love heavy traffic sites, anything other than anonymous posting seems a little chancy. RO IMNSHO It's a waste of time and effort. A list like this beats a RO message board with two hands tied on the back. I agree, never had a question that I could not find or get an answer to on these lists. -- Your communication is greatly appreciated, Paul I totally agree with your thoughts, FN. Let the 'games' begin! Powered by The Bat! v1.62/Beta7 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hallo Paul, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:43:58 -0700GMT (23-10-02, 1:43 +0200GMT, where I live), you wrote: PW I totally agree with your thoughts, FN. Let the 'games' PW begin! Should that FN not be %TOFNAME ? Just to enhance the effect... -- Groetjes, Roelof Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
DZ So, feedback is needed: Good idea? Bad idea? Would you participate in a DZ message board? Would you be interested in moderating a forum? How many DZ forums would be required? DZ So, let me know what you think of the idea. Thanks. I wouldn't participate, but I think it's a good idea :) I wouldn't participate because I have a dial up connection, and prefer to download all the messages to read off-line, and take all the time I want to read them and reply carefully. But I think it's a great idea to have a web message board, because it's a much better way to attract new users to TB!. And for the newbies, I think it would be much friendlier and comfortable than this high traffic list. I it would get search engines traffic, which is always welcome. I think you shouldn't wait to have a lot of favorable votes here. This is an e-mail discussion list, and I guess most people prefer e-mail, like me. But a web forum could be populated with a totally different kind of people. If you, or someone else, is willing to be in charge of administering the forum, then do it. About how many forums there should be, for me the best is start with one. Once the traffic gets high, you can start organizing with more sections, maybe with the same structure we have here (TBUDL, TBTECH, TBBETA, TBOT). Starting with more than one may be excessive, and unproductive. -- Ricardo M. Reyes | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (Mar del Plata - Argentina) | Usando The Bat! 1.60c Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gi'day All, On Wednesday, 23 October 2002 at 01:45:35 GMT +0100^a (which was 10:45 AM where I live) Barry2 wrote:: B What a newbie to TB! really needs is clear instructions on how to B set the thing up so they can use it and switch over from their B existing e-mail client. If they can't make the switch reasonably B easily then they will probably give up when the 30 day trial is up I was thinking about this. I use a program called SuperMemo (www.supermemo.com) and one of its features(?) is the ability to set various levels of operation - basic, intermediate and so on. Obviously, at the basic level most of the functions are hidden, and are gradually revealed at each level. Can something like this be considered for The Bat? Not being a programmer I don't fully appreciate the complexities involved. Is this unrealistic? - -- Cheers, Tom mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2nd Law of Thermodynamics: Chaos will Reign. ___ Proudly using The Bat! Version 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 6.5.8ckt Comment: THIS IS NOT A VIRUS OR OTHER NASTY!!! iQA/AwUBPbVlteqOB7wBnLp5EQKOzwCfcSjr0xRX0Kd7lvCJ9XhubRpWkbMAniaN nhl3aMqwfgMjKaP8SNVpW5FD =H7SX -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Dave, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:29:00 -0700 GMT (23/10/02, 01:29 +0700 GMT), Dave Crocker wrote: A question that might be worth focusing on is what discussion groups are needed. tbudl is a very general discussion. As has been raised elsewhere, perhaps there should be a distinction between new-users and advanced-users? Perhaps there should be a separate list for people who offer TB support? TBUDL is supposed to be the beginners' list. There are TBBETA and TBTECH for advanced users. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Si le travail c'est l'opium du peuple, alors je ne veux pas finir drogué...[ Boris Vian ] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Anne, On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:38:32 +0100 GMT (23/10/02, 06:38 +0700 GMT), Anne wrote: (Makes me sound like the TB reading confirmation template! g) You are definitely infected by the TB fever. There is no known cure. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. THE RED LION pub at Lacock in Wiltshire offers whisky-flavoured condoms for sale. The small print at the bottom of the machine advises: Warning-Do not drive while using this product. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
Hello Marck, On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:52:38 +0100 GMT (23/10/02, 02:52 +0700 GMT), Marck D Pearlstone wrote: DC Perhaps there should be a separate list for people who offer TB DC support? I don't see why TBTECH can't double up with that function - it's the place where the more technical discussions occur. I am not subscribed to TBTECH at the moment, but I am also not sure a supporter's list is necessary. Is it? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Wer anderen die Stube fegt, will selber 'rein. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta7 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Dierk Haasis wrote: Is there a reason everybody interested in a message board or newsgroup is always *discussing* it? I mean, wouldn't it be a good idea to just start it and see what happens? Or is the cost and maintenance today prohibitive? Not particularly... there are many outstanding free forum scripts so one needn't pay a dime to host a message board... the only cost is in time to maintain it. Still, although I would like to stick a Bat Board up, there's no point in doing so if it just sits there with empty forums and no users. That's why I posted the idea to the list; to get an indication of whether the thing would be used. If I do go with it, it's just a matter of finding the best script for the job, installing it on the server and setting it up. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Anne wrote: Also, what is useful if the option to be e-mailed when someone posts a reply to a forum question - including a quick link back to the reply if possible? Most of the scripts I've looked at have this feature -- the user has to turn it on in their preferences. You can be notified of a response to your post, a response to that thread in general, or notified of new posts to any other thread you've flagged even if you're not actively posting to that thread. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...If you think women aren't explosive, drop one sometime. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Joseph N. wrote: While the division of forums (fora?) which Anne suggested could be helpful in some ways, I'm concerned that it would exacerbate the big problem with the message board idea to begin with: more time and effort. There would be more links to click to view messages, essentially the *opposite* of having them all in a TB folder threaded by reference so they can be eyeballed quickly and at one time. Plus, there is the concern, which was discussed in the course of Anne's earlier post about a different list, that discussions of one topic often morph into, or are pertinent to, other topics. So, this would be a vote against too many separate forums, and, instead, in favor of fewer forums with good topic identification practices and threading of replies. That's the route I'd be inclined to take... just a handful of forums, no more than five or six. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...I know everything. I just can't remember it all at once. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Gary wrote: I too agree in total with Thomas, and for additional reasons, one that being a webboard is not email, or will be used by email, which is the essence of TB! Also, by using and contributing to TBUDL, one can practice with the many features in real time usage of TB, and not by replying to an HTML webboard, if that makes sense. In other words, 'ya get to use the darn thing, g The author of Pocomail (probably the best client besides the Bat) runs a support forum for his program, and it sees dozens of posts daily. He has a handful of administrators to assist him in keeping it going, and he's said it was the smartest thing he ever did to help in marketing his product. He also runs a mailing list but it doesn't see much traffic, at least not in comparison to TB's mailing lists. Many of the people who post there literally blunder in blind through a web search, or a copy of an email they get that has a link to Pocomail Forums in it. There are many, many posts from people who have never used anything for mail besides Outlook, and they're looking for a gentle introduction to an alternative to it. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...New vitamin from chickens blood, it makes men cocky and women lay better. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Peter Kerekes wrote: Is message board same as a Usenet Forum? similar to alt.usenet.off-linereader.forte-agent or do we have to go somewhere else for the messages? You just point your browser to a specific URL to access a message board. If you're familiar with the old BBS systems from the days before the Internet, that's probably the best comparison if you want to picture how a message board is laid out. All your reading and posting is done through your browser, however, and not through software specific to the purpose. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...The grass is always greener on the other side of your sunglasses. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In mid:15534405256.20021022174531;ca.inter.net, Peter Kerekes [PK] wrote:' PK I am a user only and are not that familiar with all the PK technicalities. Here's an example of one that's well developed: http://www.dslreports.com/forums Click on one of the topics being dealt with and explore. This is a typical example of the type of forum that is being proposed. - -- Allie C Martin \ TB! v1.62/Beta7 WinXP Pro (SP1) List Moderator/ PGP Key - http://pub-key.ac-martin.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1rc1 (Win32) - GPGshell v2.60 iD8DBQE9tiOkV8nrYCsHF+IRAmBjAKC0uyYAZZBFGY281DwWcHCZBc4EtQCg0gtG dij3fWV9Fo0Eu6U5Z+CtITI= =lMr4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Ricardo M. Reyes wrote: But I think it's a great idea to have a web message board, because it's a much better way to attract new users to TB!. And for the newbies, I think it would be much friendlier and comfortable than this high traffic list. I it would get search engines traffic, which is always welcome. That was the reasoning behind my desire to create a forum... there are legions of people on the web, not all very computer-literate -- all they know is IE and Outlook. But they know how to browse the web, and so they would be able to participate in a forum with little to learn. As they become familiar with the Bat and what it has to offer in comparison to Outlook or Messanger, they may eventually graduate to the mailing lists. It's been my experience that many people are intimidated by mailing lists, or afraid a busy list will send their inbox over quota (hello, Hotmail). About how many forums there should be, for me the best is start with one. Once the traffic gets high, you can start organizing with more sections, maybe with the same structure we have here (TBUDL, TBTECH, TBBETA, TBOT). Starting with more than one may be excessive, and unproductive. My thinking also... start with a handful and just see what happens. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Sign on bank: We can lend you enough money to get you completely out of debt. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Jan Rifkinson wrote: And for those who pay per minute or are not working with cable, DSL, ADSL, etc, it would be expensive a giant pain wouldn't it? Lack of speed is the drawback, yes. Most forum scripts now will let you skin the interface, and for PHPBB, for example, there are many templates with minimal graphics so the pages load very quickly. The older boards like wwwboard are notoriously slow simply because they choke on the data they're trying to digest. The newer scripts are written in PHP with a mySQL backend and they are very responsive and quick. This, combined with the right template, can make for an extremely fast board. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Ask not what your computer can do for you... www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Proposal: The Bat! Message Board
On 10/22/2002, Paul Wilson wrote: Sounds like a semi-blog setup. I am a member of several blogs. I have a throw away address that I use for them. I see a lot of spam on that address. E-mail harvesters love heavy traffic sites, anything other than anonymous posting seems a little chancy. You can usually choose whether or not you want your email address listed on your posts. I always choose no. Other users can still email you directly by clicking on a link, but your actual address is safely tucked away in a database where the spamboats can't grab them. -- Regards, Don Zeigler * bringing you boring sigfiles for over 14 years * ...Be careful of reading health books you may die of a misprint. www.donzeigler.com | This message brought to you by The Bat v1.61 Current version is 1.61 | Using TBUDL information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
