Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi Günter, That makes some sense if I understand it correctly: with IMAP, the folder structure moves from the local computer to the server Theoretically, the other way around: What is on the server will be seen by the client, by any client. Of course, you use the client to create and move folders on the server. and all of TB's filtering of the inbox to the folders therefore takes place at server level? It would affect server level. Of course, TheBat still runs on your local machine, and so do its filters. But (while connected) the instant a filter on your home machine decides to move a message between folders, this change will also become fact for the work machine. And any local folder structure is an exact replica of the server's folder structure? Yes, this is correct. If I have local folders on the home machine but not on the work machine, moving messages from the server to the local folders will delete it from the server and therefore from the folder structure on the work machine (which only replicates that on the server)? Exactly, that's the idea. Compare it to a classic file server: If you move a file using one client machine, a second machine will instantly see the file in its new location and no longer display it in the old one. Quite a change from the familiar way of doing things under POP... Well, yes. :-) -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp1qJGKJPIGT.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Guten Tag Bob Riley, Then at the end of the article, it says this about TB!: There are currently no known troubleshooting issues with this client. You know that this is not true. TheBat IMAP _is_ a troubleshooting issue to begin with. Even the developers admit that the system is rotten from the core, meaning they can't work to fix it, but need to exchange it completely. If you define troubleshooting issue as workaround to use it, then I apologize and agree that there aren't any. But the way the above line is worded an unknowing visitor might deduce that TheBat's IMAP would actually be - well, usable. -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpax0fZCgZxv.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi Alto, On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 10:11 +0200, you wrote: Guten Tag Bob Riley, Then at the end of the article, it says this about TB!: There are currently no known troubleshooting issues with this client. I was merely quoting the above from the fastmail.fm mail client setup: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/imap/thebat.htm On the above page is this: The Bat! is an excellent POP client, but its IMAP support is currently extremely limited. If you use The Bat! you will not have access to many IMAP features; The Bat! treats IMAP servers much like POP servers, so it does not benefit from IMAP's extra capabilities. Then, after the setup instructions, it says this: There are currently no known troubleshooting issues with this client. In response, you wrote: You know that this is not true. TheBat IMAP _is_ a troubleshooting issue to begin with. Even the developers admit that the system is rotten from the core, meaning they can't work to fix it, but need to exchange it completely. It looks to me as though the fastmail site largely agrees with you, apart from the troubleshooting statement. I am not qualified to judge the above. Because of what I have heard from quite a few people on this list and at TBBeta, I had earlier decided not to use TB for my IMAP mailer for Gmail. I have tried Evolution (because it is standard in Ubuntu Linux and is now, finally, available in Windows, and both operating systems are on my pc) and it works beautifully. However, it is much slower in starting up in Windows than it is in Linux. I also tried Mulberry in Windows, but I didn't like the interface, and there are so many options that for me it wasn't as convenient to use as Evolution, so I removed it. I would love to use TB for IMAP but won't until you more knowledgeable people say TB is very practical in IMAP. I think I have already mentioned that Thunderbird does well in IMAP. I use it for a community volunteer organization's Gmail IMAP account. If you define troubleshooting issue as workaround to use it, then I apologize and agree that there aren't any. But the way the above line is worded an unknowing visitor might deduce that TheBat's IMAP would actually be - well, usable. I defer to greater knowledge, here, and have appreciated your sharing your experience with TB as an IMAP mailer. I notice that the no troubleshooting issues statement appears after many of their instructions about setting up the various IMAP mail programs, which are listed here: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail.htm#ExternalAccess As you can imagine, I have done internet searches for best IMAP email programs, and the ones that often appear are Mulberry (Windows only, I think), Evolution and Thunderbird. Outlook doesn't score very high, nor does Pegasus (my older POP favorite for years), nor The Bat!, or its otherwise excellent competitor, Pocomail: http://email.about.com/cs/winclientreviews/gr/pocomail.htm Have a great day, everyone. Bob Riley Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hello all, Friday, July 18, 2008, Bob Riley wrote: I was merely quoting the above from the fastmail.fm mail client setup: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/imap/thebat.htm On the above page is this: The Bat! is an excellent POP client, but its IMAP support is currently extremely limited. If you use The Bat! you will not have access to many IMAP features; The Bat! treats IMAP servers much like POP servers, so it does not benefit from IMAP's extra capabilities. Then, after the setup instructions, it says this: There are currently no known troubleshooting issues with this client. this documentation is 5 years old and screens are from The Bat! 2.0 -- Bye Marek Mikus Czech support of The Bat! http://www.thebat.cz Using the best The Bat! 4.0.26.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 with MyMacros,XMP,AnotherMacros, AntispamSniper v 2.8.1.1 Notebook Toshiba, Core2 Duo 1.83 GHz, 4 GB RAM Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Friday, July 18, 2008, 12:49:34 PM, Bob Riley wrote: I would love to use TB for IMAP but won't until you more knowledgeable people say TB is very practical in IMAP. I would be interested to know what features I am missing. I too tried lots of those other mailers, such as thunderbird, mulberry, pegasus, eudora, outlook, outlook express. I hated them all, and actually outlook the least. TB! has counting issues.To me, a mailbox which has eight messages but says 2 or 2 messages and says 8 once in a while is slightly annoying, but not a show stopper. The search functions work fine. I get all my messages, I can see from one machine to another what was sent, and I have all the good things about the bat which I like. I've been running IMAP since version 2 and in version 2 it had problems. That is why I looked at most of those other choices. I'd feel no need to try anything else now, other than just curiosity. I just looked at the eudora/thunderbird hybrid's on line documentation today, and it doesn't even contain the work threading anywhere in the documentation, except in the wishlist section. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 3) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi Günter, I'm looking for the best way to achieve the above, i.e. having the entire message base (something like 70,000 messages) available at both locations. Just use IMAP instead of POP. Keep in mind that TheBat's IMAP is quite buggy at the moment though, so you might want to wait (and pay) for the repairs promised (once again) for v4.1. One advantage of IMAP is that you can access the same storage from anywhere, with any program. You could perfectly well use e.g. TheBat at home and Outlook at work. Put the message base on a Linux fileserver and point all installations of TB at that message base (ie home dektop, laptop, and work desktop), using a VPN tunnel from work [...] I'd advise against it: You'd need quite a conneection for this since TheBat accesses its message base a lot. Transfer volumes are clearly intended for local use, even having the message box files on a local file server causes delays, on a VPN depending on the connection it might very well be totally unacceptable. The alternative is using the Voyager but I don't really understand how it works. I assume it copies the message base from home to the USB stick [...] No, Voyager is just TheBat-on-a-stick. You could run it from the stick carrying it with you all the time, but it doesn't have any more sync options than TheBat does. -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpEmZ16lYZSE.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi, IMAP is no option, my email provider doesn't support it. Well - it is what you are looking for. Go figure. ;-) Should you lose the flash-drive, you lose only a cheap memory device, but all the information will still be present in a backup file on one of your computers. Restoring the data to a new flash-disk will take just a few minutes. This is misleading at best, more to the point plainly wrong: Voyager is even worse to synchronize than classic TheBat because Voyager uses mandatory encryption of the message base files. You can run multiple copies of TheBat on one unencrypted message base, but I doubt very much you can do this with Voyager. Your address book and email messages are ever at hand. The entire mail archive is available, you can search your email database at any time. Certainly - if you always run Voyager from the stick it will store its message base there, too. But you still can't synchronize the message base with another installation. The so called backup feature is useless for daily operation. -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpRuICPDMP5y.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hello Günter, On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:37:46 +1000 GMT (17/07/2008, 12:37 +0700 GMT), Günter Minnerup wrote: GM I'm looking for the best way to achieve the above, i.e. having the GM entire message base (something like 70,000 messages) available at both GM locations. This is what I have! The whole message base available at both locations, without the trouble of having to synchronise. Read on. GM Put the message base on a Linux fileserver and point all installations GM of TB at that message base (ie home dektop, laptop, and work desktop), GM using a VPN tunnel from work to access the files on the Linux server. GM Would that work, or would something in the file structure get messed GM up, and would it be fast enough? I agree with Alto, this is impractical. GM The alternative is using the Voyager but I don't really understand how GM it works. I assume it copies the message base from home to the USB GM stick, and then updates it at work, copies it back at home etc, No, it doesn't do that. Voyager is a completely independent software whcih doees not copy any files. I use the Voyager frequently when I'm voyaging ... travelling, and I am quite happy that it doesn't copy my emails to the host computer in the internet cafe! It's another animal, not for your purpose. GM Any comments, or additional suggestions, very welcome! This is what I do: Please note that I use good old POP, no IMAP. The Bat! runs on my work computer and on my home computer, but that is irrelevant. One or both of them could be running another email client, or even webmail. Both computers are set to leave messages on server. The main computer (which is the work computer for company email, and the home coputer for private email) is set to delete messages on server after 14 days. This ensures that incoming mails are downloaded to both computers, unless you are away from one of them for more than 14 days. For outgoing messages, I BCC to myself. This way, each outgoing message becomes an incoming message, which will be picked up by both computers. I have the same mails on both computers now. The only thing you have to do is synchronise the TBB files once, before you start the above plan. -- Cheers, Thomas. Xerox: The Original Copycats http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hello Günter, On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:22:06 +1000 GMT (17/07/2008, 20:22 +0700 GMT), Günter Minnerup wrote: GM Sure, that keeps the message base available on both computers. But it GM also means that you have to plough through all incoming messages twice GM as they are downloaded to the other computer as unread. Isn't that GM annoying? Not here. When I get home from work, I look only at the messages that arrived after I left the office. For example, if I left the office at 6pm, I look only at the message that where created after 6pm, and then hit Mark all messages as read. That has been my modus operandi for years, and I find it very comfortable. -- Cheers, Thomas. Bruno Labbadia (Karlsruher SC): Das wird alles von den Medien hochsterilisiert. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hello Stuart, On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:29:36 -0500 GMT (17/07/2008, 20:29 +0700 GMT), Stuart Cuddy wrote: [IMAP] SC As far as quota on the server you may have to create an archive for older SC messages and then copy your old messages to the archive on both computers and SC then delete them off the server. No such action is necessary with my method, using POP. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. All generalizations are false. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hello Günter, As it turns out, IMAP is an option after all... But as it is impractical to keep my entire message base on the server, does IMAP allow me to: - download messages to both computers With IMAP you're not supposed to download anything. You only have one message base (on the IMAP server) that you access by whatever means: An email program like TheBat, a web interface, a mobile device, whatever. Some programs offer the possibility to cache mail locally. This can be used e.g. with a laptop that has to display messages even when not connected. However, there is no standard for this caching and every program handles it differently, if it is supported at all. - flag messages as read when downloaded to the second computer Yes, certainly: Each message has exactly one read status, which resides on the server. As each client synchronizes with the server this status is transmitted and used by the client, regardless of how the status got set in the first place. - set TB! to delete message from the server periodically (say, every week, to stay within the quota) Yes, but you will have to create backups manually not to loose anything. You could do something like this: - On the work machine, use the IMAP account. - On the home machine, use the IMAP accound. - On the home machine, additionally create local folders with TheBat. Now you can access all incoming mail on the IMAP account from both machines. When you're nearing your quota, you can move some older messages from the IMAP account to the local folders on your home machine. When using TheBat, you could even work with automatic filtering. These messages will no longer be available from your work machine, but either you have the space on the server or you don't, that's just the price to pay. Maybe this could work? Of course, instead of using local folders as an archive space you could always use a second provider's IMAP mailbox. For sure you can find a freemail hoster to accomplish that, or you could even do it yourself (you mentioned a file server you might be able to use?) -- Mit freundlichem Gruß Alto Speckhardt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpUNSpECNFlk.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:55:40 AM, Günter Minnerup wrote: Can't I just set it to delete (from the server) messages older then 7 days automatically, given that I have all messages on both computers as local copies? as long as you check mail with both computers within that timeframe. That's what I did for years before I saw the light and switched to IMAP. you don't keep track of outgoing if you only do what you described. I would never go back to POP -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 3) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:51:50 AM, Günter Minnerup wrote: - set TB! to delete message from the server periodically (say, every week, to stay within the quota) I have a dummy account for archiving on my desktop, which is password protected so that it doesn't regularly get in the way and TB doesn't try to operate on it all the time. When a mailbox gets up to 10,000 or so messages, I will move the older messages into my protected account and out of imap. On the odd occasion I need to look through really old messages, I can open my protected account and have a go. I may have done that 2 or 3 times so far this year. Depending on your quota, you may well have to archive more often. My IMAP account retrieves all my pop accounts periodically, and my gmail account forwards to my IMAP account. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows XP version 5,1 (Service Pack 3) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi Everyone, On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 09:56 +0200, Alto wrote: Hi Günter, I'm looking for the best way to achieve the above, i.e. having the entire message base (something like 70,000 messages) available at both locations. Just use IMAP instead of POP. Keep in mind that TheBat's IMAP is quite buggy at the moment though, so you might want to wait (and pay) for the repairs promised (once again) for v4.1. One advantage of IMAP is that you can access the same storage from anywhere, with any program. You could perfectly well use e.g. TheBat at home and Outlook at work. I have set up my gmail account for IMAP recently, since I am now running both Windows XP and Ubuntu Linux 8.04. Ubuntu includes Evolution as the emailer, contact manager and scheduler, and it does well with IMAP. I have then installed Evolution for Windows to be able to access the same mail from Windows. I was going to use TB for IMAP (I have used it for Gmail's POP access) but have been reading in this newsgroup and TBBeta that TB may not yet still still be the best for IMAP, so I will continue to use it for POP sending (gmail allows that). FastMail.fm (an international provider of email service of various types) normally uses IMAP and has comments on the different mail programs. http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/faqparts/ExternalMail.htm#ExternalAccess They do say, unlike what I hear in our TB newsgroups, that TB has no reported issues with their IMAP. They also recommend Thunderbird pretty highly for IMAP, along with Mulberry and Pegasus (I haven't checked all of their program listings about IMAP clients). They report some issues with Outlook XP, in contrast. Since you have SO many messages, synchronizing them with your IMAP server may take a good while, I'd think. There are people on this list who know a great deal more about IMAP than I do. Bob Riley in New Mexico, USA Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 12:09:58 PM, Bob Riley wrote: They do say, unlike what I hear in our TB newsgroups, that TB has no reported issues with their IMAP. I am very happy with the combination of fastmail and thebat, although I will be even happier when a few niggling issues are addressed -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 1) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
Hi Everyone, On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 12:38 -0500, Dwight Corrin wrote: On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 12:09:58 PM, Bob Riley wrote: They do say, unlike what I hear in our TB newsgroups, that TB has no reported issues with their IMAP. I am very happy with the combination of fastmail and thebat, although I will be even happier when a few niggling issues are addressed I went back and re-read the article at FastMail and TB: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/imap/thebat.htm Here is what the article initially says when describing IMAP setup on TB: The Bat! is an excellent POP client, but its IMAP support is currently extremely limited. If you use The Bat! you will not have access to many IMAP features; The Bat! treats IMAP servers much like POP servers, so it does not benefit from IMAP's extra capabilities. The setup steps for TB! on FastMail are VERY complicated Then at the end of the article, it says this about TB!: There are currently no known troubleshooting issues with this client. In contrast, the IMAP setup for Evolution is quite simple. The setup for Thunderbird is about as complicated as for TB. Bob Riley Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 9:46:43 PM, Günter Minnerup wrote: I have such an archive account already, to keep my POP3 message base manageable. So what you're saying is simply move everything beyond the server quota into the archive account? exactly -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 1) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using TB from work and home
On Thursday, July 17, 2008, 9:39:12 PM, Günter Minnerup wrote: and all of TB's filtering of the inbox to the folders therefore takes place at server level? actually, you make use of the IMAP filters. This works better than filtering locally, because otherwise, sometimes you are filtering with one machine sometimes with the other, and when you need a new filter, you'll need it on each machine, If I have local folders on the home machine but not on the work machine, moving messages from the server to the local folders will delete it from the server and therefore from the folder structure on the work machine (which only replicates that on the server)? It took me a minute to sort out what you said here, but yes, when you archive, it's only one place. You could work around that, perhaps by copying what you are going to delete on the first machine, before archiving on the second. Whether something like that would be necessary would possibly depend on what your quota is. Mine is 600 mb, and I've never gotten past 50 or 60% of that. I still only archive every couple of months or longer, except one mailing list I'm on which sometimes hits around five thousand messages in a month. Quite a change from the familiar way of doing things under POP... -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.0.26.3 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 1) Current version is 4.0.24.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
