[tw] Re: can I display date and time in the head
Eric Shulman's Shulman'sDigitalClock plugin alone can do this, depending on where you want it... I'm using it with my own code to display the date in dot format in conjunction with (Swatch) Internet Time, but it can display ordinary date/time formats without my plugin: www.rtimwest.com ...if that's what you're going for. You can get it off of Eric's site: www.tiddlytools.com. On Aug 8, 4:03 pm, stunix s...@stunix.com wrote: I know there is a time on my pc but for reasons i cant explain here i would like to display a live date and time on the page somewhere. ive played with some of the scripts from dynamic drive but from what I can tell, it would need to be a plugin. does anyone know how this would be done? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: can I display date and time in the head
Eric Shulman's DigitalClock plugin alone can do this, depending on where you want it... I'm using it with my own code to display the date in dot format in conjunction with (Swatch) Internet Time, but it can display ordinary date/time formats without my plugin: www.rtimwest.com ...if that's what you're going for. You can get it off of Eric's site: www.tiddlytools.com. On Aug 8, 4:03 pm, stunix s...@stunix.com wrote: I know there is a time on my pc but for reasons i cant explain here i would like to display a live date and time on the page somewhere. ive played with some of the scripts from dynamic drive but from what I can tell, it would need to be a plugin. does anyone know how this would be done? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Steps toward better documentation: requests, suggestions, ideas, wishlists
I'm going to throw in my two cents- I promise I'll leave it at that. I have done just that on other issues. I've only been using TW intensively for a couple of years, and as I've said elsewhere I bounced off of it a few times- repeatedly became interested because people I respected were enthusiastic about it, tried to learn about it by reading web sites, downloaded it, played with it a little, failed to get it, and drifted off- and I'm a nearly ideal case, I've been a professional programmer for a very long time, and was an amateur before that- this stuff is more than a living to me, it's something I'm passionate about. It still took me perhaps four distinct attempts over something more than a year before I started seeing the possibilities, and how it would be useful to me personally. Most people encountering it for the first time are probably not hard-core technophiles, and aren't likely to devote that much time. I think the person investigating it cold wants to know those two things, and probably within the first 5 to 15 minutes; What is it, and what can it do for me? Unfortunately, IMHO, those basic first questions are the weakest point of practically all of the information sources that a beginner will find. Much of what is available has clearly been written by people who have been close to it for a long time and have forgotten what it was like NOT to understand the basic concepts yet. A lot of sources don't even try, they presume some familiarity instead. I am NOT saying it's a trivial task. I'm not at all happy with my own attempts (on my web site), so I'm certainly not in a position to give specific advice to anyone. IMHO, the single-page application paradigm is just that- a new, different concept for most people. It's a great deal like trying to explain the first computer spreadsheet to someone who's never seen one or even heard of one- mostly we're reduced to giving specific examples which may or may not be relevant for the reader, or just saying just try it, which is pretty much just giving up in frustration. As I wrote on my site, one co-worker I introduced to TW said something I find very interesting- she said it's like your own personal web. Clearly that's not accurate in any technical sense, but I think it's a valuable insight as to how someone coming at it cold might first begin to perceive it's value. All of the issues about how information should be stored and presented to those already interested in modifying TW for their own purposes is valuable and clearly worthwhile, but those are also much more tractable tasks for technical people. A more difficult task, but to my mind more important in the long run, is answering the most basic of questions for a not-terribly-technical audience- what is it, how is it useful? If we can't answer that for people of different backgrounds in a paragraph or two, and I don't think we have yet, we'll always severely limit the audience for anything that comes after. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: How does the store work and where do i find out about it? TiddlyFan mega stuck
I'm a noob here and haven't contributed much, but for whatever it's worth, I have to agree with Morris on this one (and we haven't been shy about disagreeing on other subjects). I've been a professional programmer on private and government projects for 23 years, and I nonetheless found the division here somewhat jarring when I first was told that my questions were not appropriate in the non-dev group, and still do. TW's very strength comes from each user being able to alter it to meet his or her needs to whatever degree required, and from the fact that it is very good at allowing that to happen, and encouraging it. This distinction doesn't seem to fit at all. I have worked in many, many environments where the distinction between user and developer was complete and unavoidable, for better or worse, partly because the nature of the tools was such that the skills required for each were entirely different, and partly because a hierarchical chain of command was necessary to control the end product. This clearly doesn't have to be like that. Anyone can modify anything, there are no secrets, no chain of command, no risk inherent in letting people change whatever they like, and no apparent need for a hierarchy. Although I don't have much personal stake in it and am not going to make it a personal campaign, I'm still a bit disappointed to see the old patterns perpetuated here. Drawing a line in the sand and saying this complex and no more- any more customization than that, and you're a developer seems curiously anachronistic in comparison with the open nature of TW itself. I might have guessed that it was also self-serving on the part of the developers, creating a developer clique, but I haven't actually seen that attitude. Perhaps it's been avoided altogether... but clearly the artificial separation presents some danger of implied elitism. It's almost like a small, final vestige of the day when the computer high- priests wearing lab coats and carrying clipboards were the only ones allowed into the sacred, glass-walled, overly-air-conditioned computer rooms with raised floors. Not my decision, and I'm not going to go on about it, but liberating the tools from that nonsense was what the so-called microcomputer revolution of the '70s and '80s was all about. Dealing with FOSS here in the 21st Century I'd have thought we were WAY past that mindset. On Jun 17, 12:51 pm, Morris Gray msg...@symbex.net.au wrote: On Jun 17, 4:41 am, FND f...@gmx.net wrote: Strictly development-related issues should be discussed on the dev group: http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWikiDev/ (Despite Morris's recent objections, most of us seem to think this separation is valuable, in many ways.) With the greatest respect, Fred; 'Most of us..' is subjective to say the least. And 'in many ways' I'd like to know. This is not a development issue. It is a simple JavaScript issue that you and Eric, and others, answer with competence for the enlightenment of us all who wish to learn on this group. Besides, Morris' comments were tabled in the developers group in hopes that there would not become a such a dichotomy. JavaScript is not development, it is a mystery needing to be solved by those who are struggling to learn. There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to share their discoveries with those who might be at the same level. In fact it should be encouraged. The users group has been filled with valuable information like this since the beginning when I joined it in 2005. In fact, judging by some of the deep technical discussions in the developers group, things like this are far less of a distraction here than there. As evidence I submit the following, (ignore my hot chocolate recipe and booking tickets to the theatre :-) things snipped from this group. http://sidesnips.tiddlyspot.com/index.html If such matters are to be directed from one group to the other and written down, one must ask; how could one delineate at what level of complexity and on what subject should this dichotomy take place? I would hope to be constructive with this distraction. And keep that smile, you never know when someone might be falling in love with it:-) Morris On Jun 17, 4:41 am, FND f...@gmx.net wrote: N.B.: Strictly development-related issues should be discussed on the dev group: http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWikiDev/ (Despite Morris's recent objections, most of us seem to think this separation is valuable, in many ways.) Is there a list of all where all the 'stuff in the store' which i can get? I'm currently trying to get custom fields from the store. There's no comprehensive documentation (except for the core code itself), but there are some articles on the community wiki - e.g. http://tiddlywiki.org/wiki/Dev:Extended_Fields -- F. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
[tw] Re: Unusual implementation situation
Is there any capability to scan documents into your systems? Still may not be practical, but stands a better chance than typing the changes in. I sympathize with the circumstances, not long ago I declined to renew a contact largely because of an even more ridiculous situation: we had NO access to sensitive or classified data, we'd all had background checks and the systems we worked on were for development only, nonetheless the IT department took it as their primary task to defend those systems and the non-existent data against the developers.. the very people building their systems for them. There were no optical drives with write capability, we were allowed to plug NOTHING into the machines, they scanned continually for unauthorized software, sandbagged all requests for software approval, and in the end made us sign forms stating that we would not bring notebook computers or even thumb drives into the building. They even confiscated our scissors. The irony is that access to the web was pretty much wide open. If anyone had actually wanted to steal any of the non-existent data that IT were protecting it would have been trivial. As is often the case, all of these measures only worked against those trying to play by the rules. Eventually, as usual, the productive people just got frustrated and left. It's called security theater, where a huge show is made of securing everything, no matter what the cost, resulting in little if any real protection against real threats. In one project years ago I had to type in and compile a simplified version of the xmodem file transfer protocol; the sysadmins had decided that FTP or anything similar represented too much of a risk to the minicomputers and had simply deleted all those executables, then mandated that we move our code from the client PCs to the minis for source control. They simply expected us to re-type or cut-and-paste it all in terminal emulation, everything we'd developed, every time there was a change. The fact that this was impossible to do on any schedule and irrational on the face of it (the terminal emulators being less secure than FTP) made zero impression, delivering software was not their problem, securing machines was, and deleting those programs was something they could do with zero effort on their part. We've reached a point in MANY institutions where security has become a magic word meaning you will do whatever I say no matter how ridiculous without question, progress has come to a complete standstill, and only the dead wood remain at the desks. We're now maintaining thousands of pretty secure, almost completely unusable systems. I only hope the pendulum has swung as far as it's going to and that sanity will gain a grip again soon. No offense, but even in your situation you express complete sympathy for and agreement with the measures in place, and yet you're trying to work around those measures in order to get access to the tools you need to get the job done. Seems a case in point. On Jun 9, 6:47 am, AlanBCohen alanbco...@gmail.com wrote: I appreciate the thoughts; but I really can.'t argue with their reasons for not allowing outside programs and data - in this situation, it is reasonable on their part. BTW, I am consulting in one of the IT groups, but they are highly silo'ed (also for good reasons). I will, however submit a request to have an update to the library. Somewhere in the TW file, there is the code that someone entered with an editor that can be reviewed or changed. All I want is to find it in both this old version and the current version; make changes to bring it more current. I have not been working in HTML or Java. I figure it will be weeks/months of lunch-times before I can get it fully updated; if there was a history of changes, I could implement them as I went along, testing to make sure the changes worked, rather than depending on a 'big bang' approach. Since we are talking about the core processes first, I thought this list would be a better place to ask than the GTD TW list. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: The end of NET? (was: [tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.)
Dirk,
Please don't apologize, you write far better in English than I do in
any other language.
I agree with you that the situation is unclear, and the response I got
did not help.
I also regret that I cannot include NET in the final package. If they
clarify the IP situation, or adopt a real license, I will of course
reconsider then.
As I said to them, I do not think there is any chance of widespread
adoption of a timekeeping system if explicit permission is required
for distribution OR commercial use. The response I received did not
point out any mis-interpretation.
Best,
Tim West
On Jun 6, 11:10 am, Dirk Zemisch dzemi...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hallo rtimwest,
rtimwest rtimw...@gmail.com schrieb am 04.06.2009 16:17 Uhr:
I contacted the folks at New Earth Time through their web page about
the apparent conflict between the GPL(s), Creative Commons License,
and their copyright notice that states that explicit permission must
be obtained in order to distribute or use NET commercially. AFAIK,
the Creative Commons License allows commercial use, and the GPL does,
but with stipulations intended to ENSURE free distribution, not
restrict it.
English is not my native language (far from it), but I understand the
statement on the NET website as focussed on 'commercialization', not
distributing. But I'm fully agree with your arguments that this point
needs a clear explanation from degree NET Ltd.
The used terminology ('The [...] concept is intellectual property of')
doesn't sound like an invitation to use the concept.
I received a short but polite response from Mark Laugesen, who has
New Earth Time, Canberra in his e-mail sig. He expressed some
interest in TiddlyWiki, and also expressed regret at the situation,
but made no concrete offers or promises to change anything.
In my humble opinion ist doesn't help - nor you for distributing the
plugin, neither the propagation of NET.
I'm not all all certain that they could make this stick- it seems to
me unlikely that dividing the day into 360 units is the sort of thing
that can be protected by copyright, although they can probably at
least do that with the name. The CONCEPT would only be patentable (in
theory) if there were no prior examples... but IANAL, and have no
vested interest in contesting their claims or promoting their idea
against their wishes.
I'm fully agree and I'm sure, that there are a lot of regions on earth
where such concepts never will get a protection by law.
Accordingly, the prototype program NETTimePlugin has been removed from
my accessible sites, even in it's pre-release form, even though it was
not linked to, to prevent any possibility of distribution.
It's a pity! Again for both - te concept and your implemtation. But I
understand your irritations and support this decision.
Regards!
Dirk
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[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
Morris, Please don't merge my part without a trace I want it as a stand alone... NET is a single time on its own to the exclusion of all others. Looks like you're going to get your wish in that respect, at least. I contacted the folks at New Earth Time through their web page about the apparent conflict between the GPL(s), Creative Commons License, and their copyright notice that states that explicit permission must be obtained in order to distribute or use NET commercially. AFAIK, the Creative Commons License allows commercial use, and the GPL does, but with stipulations intended to ENSURE free distribution, not restrict it. I received a short but polite response from Mark Laugesen, who has New Earth Time, Canberra in his e-mail sig. He expressed some interest in TiddlyWiki, and also expressed regret at the situation, but made no concrete offers or promises to change anything. I'm not all all certain that they could make this stick- it seems to me unlikely that dividing the day into 360 units is the sort of thing that can be protected by copyright, although they can probably at least do that with the name. The CONCEPT would only be patentable (in theory) if there were no prior examples... but IANAL, and have no vested interest in contesting their claims or promoting their idea against their wishes. Accordingly, the prototype program NETTimePlugin has been removed from my accessible sites, even in it's pre-release form, even though it was not linked to, to prevent any possibility of distribution. Not sure what the implications are for the NET site you were working on. Tim On May 24, 6:08 pm, Morris Gray msg...@symbex.net.au wrote: Hi Tim, I can't seem to find what thread I read that sent me to your site maybe I dreamed it. This will have to do. Wow I've just checked it out. Great work! I've downloaded it and was amazed. Exactly what I wanted, a running clock and a journal time stamp. I've been waiting since 220° 32' 24- Oct1999 to see that. Please don't merge my part without a trace I want it as a stand alone and I have another unique idea for you when you get the present project done. I'v e got a couple of other derivative uses for it. NET is a single time on its own to the exclusion of all others. I want to use it to gather a following, to communicate using it and bring up our children in our own time :-) One question with the with: call sometimes it has a place to put text or label like this. tiddler CloseThisOpen with: FormattingThePage '« back' .I'd like to put a prefix or suffix or link on the same level as the clock. Can that be done? Morris Co-signed by 50% of members of the Odd Times Society On May 24, 11:16 pm, rtimwest rtimw...@gmail.com wrote: Bare bones/pre-Alpha New Earth Time version of plugin done, works in DigitalClock for real-time, works in journal entries, currently but temporarily running on my site. I'll incorporate this functionality in the final version, but I'm shifting my attention to that now unless there are serious bugs in this temporary code. This uses the new [UTC] [/UTC] delimiter for UTC date/time strings (in addition to local, of course). Next step is probably to blend the Swatch Internet Time and New Earth Time specific code into one program, then add the delta to the UTC delimiter for [UTC+5], etc. (at which point the syntax will work for Biel/Internet Time as well).. then [LOCAL-5] (to help cope with DST) etc... At this point, that's the end of the plans for this, we'll see if there's a THIRD person on the planet interested. ;-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Title Right?
I must be doing something stupid. Doesn't seem to do anything... On May 30, 1:38 am, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to figure out how to get my search bar to look likehttp://tw.lewcid.org/. I figured out how to get it into the title area but not how to right justify it. There are several ways to get content to sit in the top right corner of the page. Here's one: Add the following to your [[PageTemplate]]: div id='topRight' refresh='content' tiddler='TopRight' style='position:absolute;z-index:1;right:0;top:0;'/div Then, just put whatever content you want into a tiddler named [[TopRight]] and it will automatically show up in the corner of the page. enjoy, -e Eric Shulman TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Morris, I appreciate your willingness to work with a time system you don't believe in. And your animosity toward base sixty is obvious, so I appreciate it will take time before you are ready and open minded enough to move much further into this project ;-) As I've said, I'm happy to help, and happy to promote the two systems on an equal basis going forward. If you need something more in TW, we can certainly talk about it. I'm confident the users (er, should there ever be any) can pick the one they want to work with. I suspect they will do so without invoking mystical ratios or ancient Babylon, but maybe that's just me. ;-) It's likely that no one will believe it at this point, but this isn't even a particular interest of mine... the illogic of the current system has always bothered me, but there are a great many subjects that I feel much more passionately about. The whole thing started just because I re-started my personal web page, and the defense of Swatch Internet Time that I wrote years ago was almost the only part of my old web page I could still find. If I'd known how much time it was going to absorb (or how few others seem interested), I might not have bothered. ;-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Some of us are... even to sending posts more than once;-) Apparently, at least some of the time, when I attempt to post and it gives me an error saying the session has timed out it has posted anyway, despite the message. Just happened again. Why the session should time out here, and gmail is still perfectly happy in another tab, is a little unclear, but if I refresh that tab, it logs me back in here. Something not quite right about all that.. apologies, in any case. T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Some of us are... even to sending posts more than once;-) Apparently, at least some of the time, when I attempt to post and it gives me an error saying the session has timed out it has posted anyway, despite the message. Just happened again. Why the session should time out here, and gmail is still perfectly happy in another tab, is a little unclear, but if I refresh that tab, it logs me back in here. Something not quite right about all that.. apologies, in any case. T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Sorry, just a test message- trying to figure out why it's double- posting EVERYTHING, error messages or not. T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Sorry, just a test message- trying to figure out why it's double- posting EVERYTHING, error messages or not. T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
I had set it for .3 while experimenting with short periods and short refreshes, probably should be set higher (refresh lower) for general use, especially if you're going to stick with a one-conventional- second period on the clock. I had up to four of the running and hadn't noticed anything, but, yes, of course it's the clock refresh, the plugin is just called. It looked very .beatish :-) being a decimal in a Base 60 code stream. Mmm... well, that's one of the arguments for Internet Time/beats. We already go decimal at both ends of the scale.. we count years in decades, centuries, millennia, there's no unit of 60 (or 24) years, or 60 of those.. and we also go decimal at the low end, with tenths of a second, hundredths, milliseconds, nanoseconds, and on down the scale, it's all decimal. Nobody in their right mind wanted to deal with units that were 1/60th of a second, and sub-units that were 1/60th of that, and so on. in the middle of the scale we have years, months, and days, that don't fit evenly and are awkward to deal with, but evolved because they corresponded to natural, real-world events, so there's some excuse and reason for dealing with a mess there. Nothing happens in the natural world 24 times in a solar day, though, or 60 times in one of those units, or 60 times in one of those, that's a purely created mess with no basis in reality, and it makes no sense to retain it in a new system for new uses (everyday, popular coordination of global events). Hence, the day divided into 1,000 beats, same time everywhere. Keeps it clean, keeps it from being confused with the old system. On May 27, 9:37 pm, Morris Gray msg...@symbex.net.au wrote: Thanks Tim, I saw that in the code and surmised that was the key to what I wanted. It looked very .beatish :-) being a decimal in a Base 60 code stream. I can now experiment on my own and decide what I want to display how and when. Humour aside... I noticed my laptop fan running overtime. I traced it to the NetTimePlugin When a single example of the clock is running it consumes approx 30% of processor time. Several running at the same time more than double that. Both processors work really hard and the fan comes on almost immediately To save trouble explaining and testing I have set up a Tiddlyspot test site. http://tw-net-trial.tiddlyspot.com/index.html Is there a way around this? I really want this clock, there must be a fix or another way. Maybe Eric can explain and help. Morris On May 27, 9:11 pm, rtimwest rtimw...@gmail.com wrote: Morris, Ok, it's done, and again (temporarily) running the clock in the title of my site, so you can easily check the behavior there to see if it's what you want without having to install it. http://www.rtimwest.com T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Hey, We're sort of back to repeating the same points. Nothing happens in the natural world 24 times in a solar day, The sun transits 15° of longitude 24 times during this rather natural occurrence; which, as you rightly say, is a solar day . The solar day is one complete rotation of the Earth and is equal to 360°. Few people would dispute that this is not normal or natural. It is as predictable and natural as the sun rising in the morning ;-) The divisions of the rotation of the Earth into 24 segments is a human construct and one designed to be in practical usable units The rotation of the earth is the same (360°) regardless of how many or few marks you make upon its surface. All of this seems natural or inevitable so long as you accept the circle being divided into 360 degrees as natural. In fact, it's completely arbitrary and invented- scholars pretty much agree that it was originally a somewhat-less-than-accurate attempt by pre- agricultural nomads to determine the length of the year in days. Not to denigrate the pre-agricultural nomads, as always when dealing with the ancients they did considerably better than we, modern man would in the same circumstances, with the same tools. Determining the length of the year was critical for them, since nomads didn't really wander, they followed circular paths in which their survival depended on keeping a pretty rigid schedule- crop recovery for the herds, etc... but it also doesn't mean that we have to be bound by historical constraints forever. 360 is a convenient number, in that it is (for a while) evenly divisible by multiples of two, and evenly divisible by multiples of three. That's nice for playing with angles (manually), but somewhat less important for time, unless you're a sailor facing an 8-hour watch on deck that has to be accurate to fractions of a second. The sun rises at exactly the same, natural time, each day, sunrise. Cows, birds and especially worms;-) know this natural fact While the duration of sunlight varies during the seasons the natural time of sunrise does not. Sunrise is always precisely at sunrise. Cant' address that, since I don't know what the point is. It's a tautology, impossible to contradict as 1=1, but about as useful for inference... if your fixed point of reference is sunrise, then your fixed point of reference doesn't change (quel suprise!). If it's midnight or noon, then sunrise certainly does change. Any attempt to impose any man-made artificial divisions such as a binary, decimal, hexadecimal or other absolute system to mark this duration will fail. Since the duration of light and dark varies every day, throughout the year, any system of units of equal value imposed in any way as a measure of time references only itself. 360 degrees is no less artificial divisions than 1,000, we're both advocating artificial systems. You seem to be advocating yours for all uses, I'm not quite so bold- I think SIT is useful for coordinating Internet events, which will become less often asynchronous with increases in bandwitdh. Local time will persist for at least generations yet, and no doubt the nonsense of a microwave oven running for longer when you key in 80 than when you key in 110 will too. One minute of one degree at the equator is a nautical mile which as I said to you before is essential in navigation. I've done a fair amount of navigation, and aside from the equator, it's convenient to have a nautical mile equal to a degree of the great circle anywhere for the sake of spherical trigonometry... but again, it's based on the artificial construct of 360, and we don't measure time in nautical miles either. Not only does this relationship between time, distance, angles and velocity (all with the same accuracy) hold true on Earth; but, extends to the very limits of the Universe itself. I'm going to take that as tongue-in-cheek hyperbole. There are relationships between time, distance and velocity that hold true, none of them dependent on units of measure. Our current timekeeping system is so parochial that we have difficulty saying on what date we first set foot on our own moon; it was one day in Florida and a different day in Greenwich. Like many of our inventions and many local wines, it doesn't seem to travel well. Using such units would undo thousands of years of accumulated knowledge, require a whole new mathematics and possibly bring human progress to a halt. The decimal system hardly requires a whole new mathematics, and it doesn't seem to have impeded human progress so far. It also GREATLY simplifies calculating elapsed times and intervals. There simply is nothing intrinsically natural about 24x60x60, or 360x60x60, systems in which 1:10 is not 110 but 70. It will always be awkward and cumbersome to deal with. By the way I can't thank you enough for creating the NET time stamp and clock for me. You're more than welcome, glad I could help. I don't have any problem with people
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Hey, We're sort of back to repeating the same points. Nothing happens in the natural world 24 times in a solar day, The sun transits 15° of longitude 24 times during this rather natural occurrence; which, as you rightly say, is a solar day . The solar day is one complete rotation of the Earth and is equal to 360°. Few people would dispute that this is not normal or natural. It is as predictable and natural as the sun rising in the morning ;-) The divisions of the rotation of the Earth into 24 segments is a human construct and one designed to be in practical usable units The rotation of the earth is the same (360°) regardless of how many or few marks you make upon its surface. All of this seems natural or inevitable so long as you accept the circle being divided into 360 degrees as natural. In fact, it's completely arbitrary and invented- scholars pretty much agree that it was originally a somewhat-less-than-accurate attempt by pre- agricultural nomads to determine the length of the year in days. Not to denigrate the pre-agricultural nomads, as always when dealing with the ancients they did considerably better than we, modern man would in the same circumstances, with the same tools. Determining the length of the year was critical for them, since nomads didn't really wander, they followed circular paths in which their survival depended on keeping a pretty rigid schedule- crop recovery for the herds, etc... but it also doesn't mean that we have to be bound by historical constraints forever. 360 is a convenient number, in that it is (for a while) evenly divisible by multiples of two, and evenly divisible by multiples of three. That's nice for playing with angles (manually), but somewhat less important for time, unless you're a sailor facing an 8-hour watch on deck that has to be accurate to fractions of a second. The sun rises at exactly the same, natural time, each day, sunrise. Cows, birds and especially worms;-) know this natural fact While the duration of sunlight varies during the seasons the natural time of sunrise does not. Sunrise is always precisely at sunrise. Cant' address that, since I don't know what the point is. It's a tautology, impossible to contradict as 1=1, but about as useful for inference... if your fixed point of reference is sunrise, then your fixed point of reference doesn't change (quel suprise!). If it's midnight or noon, then sunrise certainly does change. Any attempt to impose any man-made artificial divisions such as a binary, decimal, hexadecimal or other absolute system to mark this duration will fail. Since the duration of light and dark varies every day, throughout the year, any system of units of equal value imposed in any way as a measure of time references only itself. 360 degrees is no less artificial divisions than 1,000, we're both advocating artificial systems. You seem to be advocating yours for all uses, I'm not quite so bold- I think SIT is useful for coordinating Internet events, which will become less often asynchronous with increases in bandwitdh. Local time will persist for at least generations yet, and no doubt the nonsense of a microwave oven running for longer when you key in 80 than when you key in 110 will too. One minute of one degree at the equator is a nautical mile which as I said to you before is essential in navigation. I've done a fair amount of navigation, and aside from the equator, it's convenient to have a nautical mile equal to a degree of the great circle anywhere for the sake of spherical trigonometry... but again, it's based on the artificial construct of 360, and we don't measure time in nautical miles either. Not only does this relationship between time, distance, angles and velocity (all with the same accuracy) hold true on Earth; but, extends to the very limits of the Universe itself. I'm going to take that as tongue-in-cheek hyperbole. There are relationships between time, distance and velocity that hold true, none of them dependent on units of measure. Our current timekeeping system is so parochial that we have difficulty saying on what date we first set foot on our own moon; it was one day in Florida and a different day in Greenwich. Like many of our inventions and many local wines, it doesn't seem to travel well. Using such units would undo thousands of years of accumulated knowledge, require a whole new mathematics and possibly bring human progress to a halt. The decimal system hardly requires a whole new mathematics, and it doesn't seem to have impeded human progress so far. It also GREATLY simplifies calculating elapsed times and intervals. There simply is nothing intrinsically natural about 24x60x60, or 360x60x60, systems in which 1:10 is not 110 but 70. It will always be awkward and cumbersome to deal with. By the way I can't thank you enough for creating the NET time stamp and clock for me. You're more than welcome, glad I could help. I don't have any problem with people
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Morris, No problem. I think I sort of disagree on a philosophical basis- I mean, what's the point of having a new time system with more intrinsic precision if you're then going to reduce it to the precision of the OLD system? But, hey, it's your site... and it does make it more reasonable to use all the digits in a real-time display, since it's not really (in Javascript, at least) going to refresh every .0 seconds... I had expected that you'd mask off the NET seconds for clock, just use degrees and minutes. This is literally a 30-second change with maybe a 5-minute unit test, and since this is just a prototype there's no real overhead. I should have time to do this in the next few hours (believe me, neither of us wants to risk my doing it before coffee). I'll let you know here. T. On May 26, 10:43 pm, Morris Gray msg...@symbex.net.au wrote: Well Tim I have been having fun with my new toy adjusting its look for different applications, thinking up more.adaptations for you to do :-) I'm like a kid turned loose in a cuckoo clock factory ( you need not mention the first thought that that conjures up :-) Now I have some questions, since the net seconds are displaying 4 times per each minute shouldn't they read 00,15,30,45 (or at least that's what I want). This helps show relationships, graphically, and allows one to understand why a NET degree is four minutes long. By seeing the NET seconds counting by 15s i.e. (15,30,45,60) before each NET minute changes shows the 4 to 1 relationship better than a thousand words Sometimes it synchronizes and its beautiful to watch and it goes a long way toward demonstrating the relationship between NET and UTC - our 15 degree time zones and the nautical mile. But you can watch it get out of step, should it perchance start on zero, it displays that sequence at the most twice or three times before it gets out of step with no discernible pattern destroying the relationships and appearing random. Can this be fixed? Morris --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: NewEarthTime comments and bugs 2009.05.27 at 040°38'05
Morris, Ok, it's done, and again (temporarily) running the clock in the title of my site, so you can easily check the behavior there to see if it's what you want without having to install it. http://www.rtimwest.com T. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Visibility issue
Thanks, both... I'm playing with it now... may be overkill for me. Actually, the tiddler body text doesn't seem any larger at all. Titles, yes, but the text seems the same. I gather much of this formatting is to go into portrait mode, which I don't need at all. Also, from the comments it seems it was or is incompatible with TiddlySpot, which I've been using for years. Maybe. I'll keep digging... but I really was hoping for just a theme with larger print, not a different paradigm. Just like standard TW but with all the typefaces 50% larger would give me something I could use in either desktop or portable browsers. Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Visibility issue
Is there a theme or something to help TW's usability on small screens? I've tried to use TW on my Nokia 810 a few times, and it works well enough, but it's pretty hard to read- the default fonts are very small, compared to the appearance of any dedicated portable OS. Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
Bare bones/pre-Alpha New Earth Time version of plugin done, works in DigitalClock for real-time, works in journal entries, currently but temporarily running on my site. I'll incorporate this functionality in the final version, but I'm shifting my attention to that now unless there are serious bugs in this temporary code. This uses the new [UTC] [/UTC] delimiter for UTC date/time strings (in addition to local, of course). Next step is probably to blend the Swatch Internet Time and New Earth Time specific code into one program, then add the delta to the UTC delimiter for [UTC+5], etc. (at which point the syntax will work for Biel/Internet Time as well).. then [LOCAL-5] (to help cope with DST) etc... At this point, that's the end of the plans for this, we'll see if there's a THIRD person on the planet interested. ;-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
Morris, On May 24, 6:08 pm, Morris Gray msg...@symbex.net.au wrote: Hi Tim, I can't seem to find what thread I read that sent me to your site maybe I dreamed it. This will have to do. NET is a single time on its own to the exclusion of all others. Well now... guess it's a good thing for you that I'm not quite as zealous about promoting my own favored system exclusively, huh? ;-) I want to use it to gather a following, to communicate using it and bring up our children in our own time :-) Not sure I share that ENTIRE vision, but glad I could help. I have another unique idea for you when you get the present project done. I'v e got a couple of other derivative uses for it. Let me know what you have in mind any time, it might help me from making decisions in the interim that will make that direction more difficult later. One question with the with: call sometimes it has a place to put text or label like this. tiddler CloseThisOpen with: FormattingThePage '« back' .I'd like to put a prefix or suffix or link on the same level as the clock. Can that be done? Well, of course the clock is Eric's code, but it just takes a mask and uses it, just as the journal title routine does, so anything included in the submitted string that does NOT get interpreted as a time or date mask should come through just fine. Just include the entire string you want in single or double-quotes so it gets interpreted as one parameter, not several, and it should work fine. Text, that is. Links? That's going to be pretty tricky, not seeing an obvious way offhand. Those here with more experience might, but I know from playing with the degree sign options that the text output of the Javascript is not being wikified. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Javascript gurus...
Noob here. In testing a (user-entered) string to see if it's (potentially) numeric, somewhat to my surprise the string methods parseInt() and parseFloat() will return a number if the first part of the string converts successfully, ignoring trailing non-numeric characters (and not making an index availalbe of where they quit converting the string). The function isNaN() behaves the same way. That's not always what's desired. Curiously, then (at least to me), implicit conversion seems to fail if it can't convert the entire string, and can be exploited. if(testStr==0||testStr/1) proceed on success path... else proceed on failure path... Seems to work (success) with positive, negative, integers, decimals and zero, leading or trailing spaces and leading zeros, and still fails trailing non-numeric characters Is there a downside I'm not seeing? Is this the sort of behavior that's likely to morph in different browsers? Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Javascript gurus...
Strictly development-related issues should be discussed on the dev group:
I considered doing that, but frankly I hesitated because I have no
idea what many of the posts over there are about or what their norms
are, and I had a feeling that basic, not-TW-specific questions might
not be considered appropriate there either.
Therefore, even though regular expressions are often overused, it seems
that might be the safest choice here:
if(testStr.search(/^\d+$/) != -1) { ... }
It may be more stable over platforms... but I tend to resist a
character-scan approach. Once you open one up enough to allow
decimals, signs etc., it also tends to pass things like --,
. and 834.234.343 which won't convert, or shouldn't, and code
to tighten a character-scan approach beyond that level tends to get
very elaborate and error-prone.
I'm not equipped (or, frankly, probably motivated) to test on a slew
of platforms. If this is getting near the edge, it might be safer for
me to rework around the limitations of parseInt() etc.
Thanks.
On May 23, 2:56 pm, FND f...@gmx.net wrote:
N.B.:
Strictly development-related issues should be discussed on the dev group:
http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWikiDev/
In testing a (user-entered) string to see if it's (potentially)
numeric, somewhat to my surprise the string methods parseInt() and
parseFloat() will return a number if the first part of the string
converts successfully, ignoring trailing non-numeric characters
This seems odd indeed - though apparently that's how it's supposed to
be:https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference/Global...
implicit conversion seems to fail if it can't convert the entire
string, and can be exploited
Note that different browsers might react differently, so you should test
for this quirk in Firefox, IE 6-8, WebKit (Safari, Chrome) and Opera -
not to mention mobile browsers... (Welcome to the beautiful world of web
development.)
Therefore, even though regular expressions are often overused, it seems
that might be the safest choice here:
if(testStr.search(/^\d+$/) != -1) { ... }
HTH.
-- F.
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[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
I was in such a rush yesterday I'm not sure exactly what I did, but my posts didn't show up for some reason. NBD (er, no worries) Morris- as I mentioned, so far you're half of the demand, and the other half is running a copy of the current plugin, and is happy for the moment. I need to do the NET programming for the final version anyway... if I do a one-off version modified for NET time, that might satisfy your immediate needs for your site, it will need to be tested anyway, and satisfying the immediate demand will cut me a little slack on delivering a more comprehensive, ready-for-prime-time version. Want to play with a prototype? The deg thing didn't work out- works as part of the mask, but not in a string returned from Javascript. No problem, I found the symbol in the Unicode tables and used that. Gotta say, still not a fan of the system. I admit I haven't read all the material you linked to yet, so I'll keep an open mind... Still, one NET degree = 4 minutes or 240 seconds, that's fine. There are 60 NET seconds in a NET degree, so each NET minute evaluates to 4 conventional seconds, which seems at least a bit confusing. Then we divide that into 60 for NET seconds, and we end up with each NET second being two-thirds of one-tenth of a conventional second... might have helped if they'd picked other names, and maybe 4- (conventional) second increments are fine enough for most use, but displays that DO show NET seconds are going to be whirring too fast to really see. Mostly because of that, it's difficult to compare the NET seconds ouput to anything, so I left the math section of the program fluffed out a bit to make it more readable in case you want to check it. Degrees and minutes match up fine. I'd recommend the seconds not be used in a real-time display, cranking the refresh up high enough to make the display work could be a real drain. Using all three segments in a timestamp is no problem, of course. I didn't really use the math example you sent in the applet, didn't follow all of it and don't much see the point in a program doing sub-calculations that result in a constant, but no doubt the result they get is correct. Based on the website examples and yours I've left-padded the segments out with zeroes, but apparently it's not always displayed that way. I've looked at the output in different fonts, and I think for most purposes it looks better without a space between the segments, but let me know what you think on both points. The math part and output formatting is done for NET time, hopefully today I'll have a chance to tackle the mask string handling. The first version was written in a hurry, I was never been happy with it, and it needs to be modified anyway to handle multi-character delimiters to return UTC datetime strings. If I can get the UTC delta working as well... that's about 80 percent of the broader scope I outlined. The rest is just some conditional looping in case there are different time zones needed for the same mask (besides local time). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
All, Are there places in the world where the difference between local time and Greenwich in hours is ever not an integer? Thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
Never mind, there are. According to Wikipedia, Delhi is in one. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: now Alternate Time Systems in TW- major thread drift.
Ok, having backed off and gotten just a little bit of perspective on this, I think a major re-think is in order. It hasn't escaped my attention that out of about 6.5 billion people, exactly two have expressed interest in using this program ... and one of them wants another time system. Cheerfully ignoring the first and most significant part of that, I think I've again been thinking too small. Keep in mind that I threw the first version of this (the macro) together in my spare time over two days- a few hours- for my own use, and just to put Internet Time in journal titles, nothing else. It's already become a great deal more generic (thanks to Eric's suggestions), and I can see that if there's ANY demand for this, it's probably going to be to make it more generic. So here's what I now have in mind: ONE program. I'm rapidly becoming convinced that I don't want to maintain more than one in parallel for this. I've already chucked the newJournalPlusSIT macro. Time to chuck InternetTimePlugin. Maybe AlternateDateTimePlugin? Still support the @bbb.bb format for Swatch Internet Time display. Support the NETDEGMINSEC format (or whatever it turns out to be) for NET display. That leaves the (current) @ delimiters, used in the prototype to return date/time in arbitrary TW formats for Biel, Switzerland, to match the @bbb.bb display (combining local date and either NET or SIT in a display without making it very clear is a VERY bad idea). Chuck it now, while nobody's using it. I'm thinking, replace that syntax with [UTC] [/UTC] delimiters, or optionally something like [UTC+1] (for, say, Biel) or [UTC+5], in case someone just wants to display time in another time zone instead of in another system. So, [UTC] goes with NET time, and [UTC+1] goes with Internet Time, and [UTC+5] gives you EST. And here's where we can get a little cute I am NOT maintaining tables of what every politician in the world thinks that local time should be (as in, Daylight Savings Time), sorry. Plus, the time changes on a Sunday- you can't even do it with a date calculation. However, the Date object in Javascript does return local time by default, and can be coaxed into returning the delta between that and UTC. I don't know web stuff at all, but I assume that the Javascript engine has to be getting that from the OS that the browser is running on, and I'm more than happy to let Shuttleworth, Jobs and Ballmer take that grief. Still... What I CAN do is implement a [LOCAL+3] syntax, so that if you're in New York and your girl friend is in LA, and you want to display the time where she is (somewhere in TW), you can use that syntax and it will remain correct over the switch. That means you can display correctly any current date and/or time in the world where the difference from either Greenwich or your local time is static. Doesn't help if you're in England and you want to display time in New York, I know, it would have to be just changed manually, I can't get time from a browser/OS running elsewhere... but it seems like the right direction. It will delay things, of course (not that I have any idea how long it WAS going to take), but it seems like it might forestall more requests and make it more generally useful. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: PrettyLink to a macro.. Swatch Internet Time in TiddlyWiki
Eric,
Thanks for taking a look. I'll respond to this and then move any
further discussion to the other section.
I think we're very much on the same page; this first (pre-Alpha)
version does leverage Date.formatString, n times for however many @@
Biel-date strings (probably should be once for all), and again with
the whole string for local datetime, just as you suggest. The big
difference in what you're saying seems to be the point of
interception, that the replacement macro really isn't necessary, and I
agree that the hijack approach on the Date method itself is much more
elegant.
Not sure I would have had the audacity to try it as a first attempt
even if I had been aware that the hijack syntax applied to core
objects (it's doing that with button object, I wasn't thinking of
broader applications at the time), but I will. Should be fun.
It's going to need another name...
Thanks.
On May 19, 11:01 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:
A couple of days ago it occurred to me that it might be preferable to
have the core date-handling routine as a stand-alone pure Javascript
function (declared as a window variable), so that it could be called
by any other program in TiddlyWiki... or maybe even ported elsewhere.
If anyone decides to critique the code, please keep in mind that less
than three weeks ago I had never touched a line of Javascript.
Even though you are just starting out with both TiddlyWiki and
Javascript, it's quite apparent that you 'grok' software, and you've
done reasonably well by following the patterns in the existing code.
However, for this particular use-case, there may be a *much* simpler,
more generalized way to add your functionality...
The key is to know that the TW core is already defining an
extended .formatString() method that converts standard JS Date()
objects into formatted text strings, using specified 'date format
codes':
--
Date.prototype.formatString = function(template)
{
var t = template.replace(/0hh12/g,String.zeroPad(this.getHours12(),
2));
t = t.replace(/hh12/g,this.getHours12());
t = t.replace(/0hh/g,String.zeroPad(this.getHours(),2));
...
t = t.replace(/\\/g,);
return t;};
-
When applied to a date object ('this'), the function uses regular
expressions to selectively match and replace the various format codes
(e.g., 0hh12, hh12, etc.) contained in the input parameter
('template') with their respective values and then returns the
resulting text string.
For your purposes, all you really want to do is to add your bbb.bb
and @...@ format processing to the existing .formatString() code, so
that use of the SIT format codes with all *existing* TW features --
including the core's newJournal macro, as well as any plugins that
render formatted dates -- without needing any new macro definitions at
all!
The best way to do this is to *hijack* the existing function, like
this:
//save existing function
Date.prototype.formatString_SIT_orig=Date.prototype.formatString;
//redefine function
Date.prototype.formatString = function(template) {
... SIT processing goes here ...
... replaces bbb.bb and @...@ sequences in template ...
// let core do rest of the work...
return this.formatString_SIT_orig(template);
}
When .formatString() is invoked, any SIT format sequences in the input
'template' (date format string) are first replaced with their
respective output text (e.g. 921.54) and then the modified template is
passed on to the core so any remaining format codes can be converted.
Of course, the specific code for SIT processing is up to you to
figure out... but I think you get the idea...
enjoy,
-e
Eric Shulman
TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios
note: in order to avoid becoming too tech heavy in this group,
further discussions about TiddlyWiki plugin development and javascript
programming techniques should be moved to the TiddlyWikiDev group.
Thanks.
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[tw] Title Right?
I've got a non-techie question.. I did a Google image search, and virtually nobody's TiddlyWiki site (always excluding yours, Eric) has much of anything up in the upper right corner, title or subtitle areas. Is it just that there's no convenient (non-programmer) way to float something to the right in that area, or is there a real downside to doing it? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Title Right?
Morris, Thanks for the kind words. No amount of experience in the proprietary world of PL/SQL gives much in the way of tools to contribute to free software, I'm glad for the opportunity. The program itself should get a lot better in the next few iterations. and zero time begins at an odd place at a factory. It's awkward to convert and really depends on everyone adopting it completely after an extremely difficult learning curve which will never happen. Not sure I understand why it matters when zero time begins in any one location? Then I discovered NET time. It begins at Greenwich and goes from 0 to 360, The units are degrees which means each degree is 4 minutes long so there is 15 degrees in an hour. That makes it easy to convert to the old local time anywhere in the world by knowing the longitude. It runs parallel with local time and is easily adapted to learn and can be converted to conventional local time in your head for reference if needed Interesting, I haven't run across that. I'll look into it, but I'm... not yet convinced. Seems that you'd lose most of the advantages of .beats (one of which is that it's entirely separate from the old system), but I'll study the issue. I'm sure we could bore everyone here to tears with this stuff. If you want to discuss it, maybe we should take it to e-mail? Mine is on the site. Looking at your plugin it seems it could easily be converted to NET time. http://newearthtime.net/I'd like to try if I can't convince you to :-) If I understand the basics, seems like an easy mod. If I do it, I think you just volunteered to test it. ;-) I wonder if it would be preferable to have them as separate plugins, or to have one that just adds more time systems to TiddlyWiki? I can think of arguments for both sides... having one cuts down on redundancy, there'd be no need to stack very similar code. On the other hand, how many people would ever want to use more than one alternate time system at once? I wonder if making one catchall program might make it harder to find (by program name or whatever) for those interested in one particular system? Anyone have any thoughts? Speaking of plugins there is a standard format that is used that you might have a look at. Knew I'd have to deal with that when moving from macros to plugins, if not before. Also I think you modified the TW core with some of your styling. This causes trouble because of the frequent updates of the core. Nope. At least, don't think so. Not sure what styling you're referring to in particular, but the Internet Time program certainly does nothing of that sort. I added a few characters to the button label and button prompt mostly to aid my own debugging, but that's about to go away since we're losing interest in any particular application of the code anyway (fine by me, I'm a back-end programmer by nature). Other than that, nothing. I have a couple of other substitute macros that I'm using on the site, but they're just mostly just wrappers for the core macros, no low- level stuff. Tim On May 20, 9:40 pm, rtimwest rtimw...@gmail.com wrote: I've got a non-techie question.. I did a Google image search, and virtually nobody's TiddlyWiki site (always excluding yours, Eric) has much of anything up in the upper right corner, title or subtitle areas. Is it just that there's no convenient (non-programmer) way to float something to the right in that area, or is there a real downside to doing it? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] Re: Title Right?
Dirk, You could, but so far it doesn't bore. So please stay here for the lurkers around... ;-) Well, okay, but remember you asked for it... discussions of time systems can get truly Byzantine, sometimes even heated (which seems odd for such a dry subject, but ask me how I know...), and tend to have nothing in particular to do with TiddlyWiki. -- For anyone interested: On the progress front, I've incorporated Eric's helpful suggestions and as of right now my site is weaned off of the old (well, a few days old) newJournalSIT macro entirely. It's been rewritten as a plugin, no installation steps required, and is now driving the journal titles and an UNALTERED version of Eric's DigitalClock for the real-time displays. Not near ready for prime time, though- it's bare-bones function, poor formatting, few comments, no docs, meets no standards yet, and there are some sections I want to refactor. -- Morris, I had a hard time finding ANYTHING on NET time, until I ran across it as an acronym for New Earth Time. That led to some information... This: http://www.newearthtime.net/ seems to be the main site, though the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Earth_Time Is a lot easier to deal with. I don't see any fundamental problem in implementing it, though there are some potentially thorny details. Still a bit unconvinced of it's advantages... point by point: I looked at Swatch time some time ago had an applet on my site and studied its implications. The trouble is it was designed for commercial reasons to sell watches... Not sure I really see that as a problem, but we all get to determine our own ethical systems. It's not like they tried to make the system proprietary. If a company can sell more product by giving the world a useful tool, I can't see refusing to use it to better things in order to deny the company any benefit from it. ...and zero time begins at an odd place at a factory. Really lost me there. Not sure why that would matter- what does midnight in Greenwich or Biel have to relate to for you in Australia or me in the US? In any case zero time is only an hour different in the two systems. It's awkward to convert... It is awkward to convert both mentally and precisely, but either is easy enough. I have no problem knowing about what Internet Time I typically get up, eat, and go to bed- you get accustomed to that pretty quickly. Knowing what time things happen locally is not intrinsically easier with any given notation, it's just what you're used to. Daylight Savings Time is harder, and certainly makes less sense. ...and really depends on everyone adopting it completely I think I respectfully disagree there. It depends on people adopting it, but not completely. It was never intended to be a replacement for local time, just an additional tool. I think it will be generations, perhaps several generations, before people quit using the archaic system for local time, but we need something different very soon for synchronous global communications, and I think it's actually easier if it's very distinct from the old system. ... after an extremely difficult learning curve Not really. There's nothing intrinsically difficult about it, and doing arithmetic with a day divided into 1,000 units is much, much simpler than the system we've grown accustomed to by the time we can tie our shoes. which will never happen. THAT may certainly be true. I've often gotten into trouble by underestimating society's resistance to change. Then I discovered NET time. It begins at Greenwich and goes from 0 to 360, The units are degrees which means each degree is 4 minutes long so there is 15 degrees in an hour. That makes it easy to convert to the old local time anywhere in the world by knowing the longitude. Um, you mean time zone? The local time is not going to be 4 minutes different than Greenwich for each degree of longitude separating you from it. I agree that it's probably easier to mentally convert NET to local time and vice-versa, but I personally see that as a disadvantage. In Internet Time, by keeping the notation, display, and nomenclature completely different, they've separated the namespaces in our minds, so theres' little potential to get crossed up. Calling the 360 divisions of the day degrees is fine, but calling the finer divisions minutes and seconds (based on longitude, of course) is bound to cause confusion. It seems to me that the two systems share one great advantage: in each it's the same time everywhere. However, while dealing with a day divided into 360 parts is not too bad, when you get into minutes and seconds you're dealing with elapsed time and interval computations based on 360x60x60, which is certainly no simpler than 24x60x60, and is the sort of system that's led to the current nonsensical situation where (as I've pointed out) a typical microwave oven runs for LONGER if you key in 80 than it does if you key in 110, and people think that's
[tw] Re: PrettyLink to a macro.. Swatch Internet Time in TiddlyWiki
Curious that you should bring up just that subject in response to my own one-and-only post. I wasn't going to mention this yet, and don't know if there's any interest out there, but since you brought up the newJournal macro, here goes... Some of you are aware that I've been working on combining two of my interests, TiddlyWiki and Swatch Internet Time (also called Internet time, sometimes beat time or even .beats dot beats). For those of you that haven't run across it before, Internet Time is a greatly simplified, limited-use form of timekeeping in which it's the same time everywhere (no time zones and no Daylight Savings time), which greatly simplifies coordinating people spread out over long distances geographically (hence Internet), and in which the day is divided into 1,000 equal parts, called beats, which makes elapsed time and intervals trivial to deal with compared to the old system (24x60x60). It's usually displayed with an @ symbol, as @921 or @921.46, to keep it from being confused with any other time value. I have long been a proponent of the system (against some resistance) for appropriate uses (it's not intended to replace local time), and had even written a defense of it, which I resurrected when I re- started my site not long ago. It's up there now. A week or so ago, after having created/altered a macro to display the journals the way I wanted them, I wondered if I could also write something to let me (just me) use Internet Time to time-stamp my TiddlyWiki journals. Turns out that date objects in Javascript are pretty sweet. Somewhat to my surprise this proved to be very do-able as a replacement for the newJournal macro (as called from the shadow tiddler SideBarOptions). In fact, I was not only able to allow the use of beats in the title (to three levels of precision), but it was possible to create a syntax extension that allows that, plus the date and/or time in Biel, Switzerland in any of the current possible formats (the date in Biel is the one that should be used if a date is displayed in conjunction with Internet Time), AND still preserve all of the current syntax for displaying local time and date- nothing is lost. So, as of a couple of days a go, my journal timestamps look like this: Internet: 2009.05.20 @091.65 (local, 9:11 PM, May 19th, 2009) A couple of bugs have come up and been fixed, a lot of typos, mistakes and awkward phrasing in the docs/comments, and there are more user options needed (the parameters are being used), but it's pretty much worked fine. That was a few days ago.. A couple of days ago it occurred to me that it might be preferable to have the core date-handling routine as a stand-alone pure Javascript function (declared as a window variable), so that it could be called by any other program in TiddlyWiki... or maybe even ported elsewhere. I rewrote it that way, did a quick and ugly hack job on Mr. Shulman's DigitalClock (with apologies) as a proof-of-concept, and that's now running in my title bar, displaying rolling Internet Time (to centibeats). So, if there is any interest out there, Internet Time is now available in TiddlyWiki for journal timestamps, real-time clocks, or any other program. Should be very straightforward for other programmers to call in their code. http://rtimwest.com (my site) http://rtimwest.com/SwatchInternetTime (info, and link to the code) http://rtimwest.com/newJournalPlusSIT (straight to the code) It's obviously very new, but it should be very safe- it's a very minimal intercept of built-in functionality, just Javascript and TW functions, and trivial to remove completely. If anyone cares to try it at this very early stage, have fun and let me know, especially if you find a problem (I already have a list of needed features... did I mention that the parameters are already being used?). If anyone decides to critique the code, please keep in mind that less than three weeks ago I had never touched a line of Javascript. So... in answer to the reply, it just so happens that I've gotten pretty familiar with how the newJournal macro works since my first post here. ;-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[tw] PrettyLink to a macro..
First post, so go easy guys.. ;-) I've always been impressed with TW, I've been a few for years for my own purposes, but just recently published a couple of pages, and now I'd like to get a bit more sophisticated. I'm a programmer, but not with these tools, yet. I don't know if I'm missing some well-known simple syntax, or this is something that shouldn't be done for some reason, or just a bad idea. Whatever the case, the real problem is likely just my own ignorance. The wall I keep running up against is that it seems intuitive to be able just create a PrettyLink that executes a (simple) macro (I really don't need to capture the on-line Wall Street Journal or anything). As a minimal example, say I have a simple macro to close a (named) tiddler. It seems that I should be able to just create a link anywhere to execute the macro/plugin, without going through another tiddler to do it. I could, of course, PrettyLink to a tiddler that just contains macro calls, and then closes itself (I've hijacked that much code), but that's a lot of unnecessary execution overhead, and is anything but flexible, generic or elegant. I've read the thread here Embedding Macros in [[ ]] to use for links to other tiddlers (which touches on the basic issue) a couple of times, but that was a much more complex scenario. Has anyone pointed out that, perhaps surprisingly, and whether by accident or design, the syntax: [[Link text|macroName param1 param2]] comes VERY close to working? 1. It renders the PrettyLink properly. 2. It doesn't execute the macro until the PrettyLink is clicked. 3. When the link is clicked, it executes the macro and even handles the parameters correctly (the ones I've tried, anyway). Unfortunately, 4. It then tries to open new tiddler named macroName param1 param2. The only thing I really need for what I was trying to do is eliminate, bypass, short-circuit step 4... that's what makes me feel like I must be missing just a special character or two somewhere... I don't need a lot of hand-holding, if you could just point me in the right direction, I'm willing to research and learn. Many thanks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to TiddlyWiki@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
