Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Eric, how wise your wife is on this mater of the mobile phone! LOL. I hae one, check its messages a few times a day, and it's usually turned off. Re: the liberty to not answer the phone: We all have it; who's willing to take it?
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Various private and government data horders have copies of these messages; surely, they can be found in indices? LOL. They'll be archived, copied, and redistributed for the life of the interwebs...
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I can't resist I'm probably old enough to be your mother, but I have the same problem with dating and had to end a romantic liason with an otherwise pleasant gentleman who couldn't seem to understand why I didn't just install Windows so Yahoo messenger will work and we can cyber. It felt kind of shallow at the time, but if he couldn't respect that then there were just too many other irreconcilable differences for it to end well. It was actually a careless mistake that my Trisquel username is my (obviously feminine) real first name, but maybe it's time to just go with it and ditch the gender/generation neutral pseudonyms for good. I've been a free software user for ten years now even though I look exactly like Shuttleworth's sexist stereotype of the 50ish grandmother who doesn't understand free software or why us guys work so hard to make it easy enough that even she can use it. My 21 year old son doesn't mind asking me for computer advice anyway. My 25 year old daughter thinks she's such hot shit for installing Ubuntu that she doesn't ask or I'd help her upgrade from McLinux to Trisquel too. :P On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:46:36 +0200 (CEST) tuxf...@gmail.com wrote: Hi i'm a new member..ity's really true that girls use linux free softwere??? -- Heather noordinaryspi...@gmail.com
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The feeling of being 'left out' is very powerful. It's so hard, sometimes I get such a strong desire to have a smartphone, use Windows, watch soap operas, read the gutter press, support a football team, be just like everyone else, even though I know I'd hate it, even though I've spent my whole adult life avoiding such things. Whether you want to call it the path of righteousness/wisdom/enlightenment/freedom/political awareness/whatever. It can be a very lonely road at times.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Hi i'm a new member..ity's really true that girls use linux free softwere???
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
To be honest, I understand (now more than before) that there is no real need to hide EVERYTHING about you. Of course, the kind of spying that you are mentioning is wrong and I would say criminal. But it's like... a social network like Diaspora, that apparently respects the users a lot more than facebook, is actually ok. Of course, everything that you decide to share with the world there is still available to anyone to look and know more about you, but that is the difference, you actually have a lot more control over those things. The problem is that these days the services that everyone chooses to use are the ones that actually DON'T respect you (facebook and skype mainly). For me it has become a matter of balance between not becoming a caveman and still protecting myself. Since I have suffered some persecution before due to private stuff becoming public, I am still leaning more towards the second point :P Thanks for your answer! One question, could you give me a link to that Linux Format thing you mentioned? Thanks.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Facebook is a global psychological profiling and surveillance tool, masquerading as a social networking tool. Of course it can be accessed using free software - it's a broad net, designed to catch as many fish as possible. To lock people out based on their refusal to use proprietary software would be counter productive.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Taking it to a serious level, don't fall for Facebook or other social media (you could also argue get a simple cell phone not a smart one). I recenty watched a very interesing video that came on LXF - a Stallman presentation. A guy from East Germany (not sure if living in Ireland/Eire now) used an old Irish law to force Facebook to provide him with the information they held on him - some 4000 pages of information - and he commented that when he had lived in East Germany, the Stasi did not have that much information! Also cell phones have non free software that can listen in on conversations that don't have to be near the mouth they can be on the other side of the room! So take care out there! Stallman also mentioned of a Belgian guy who had to sue his mobile operator to get his geolocation records - 3000 pages long with 200 geolocations per day over a 3 month period kept on record! And phones don't have to be in use - triangulation is used between transmitters to 'best guess' your location. ;-)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
We have free media. Whether one considers Facebook free media or not, we still have access to free media. Facebook doesn't try to oppress every type of media it can, but rather it collects data about its users. Therefore, Facebook is not an attack on our civil liberties. It is completely optional for users and optional to submit data to it. To make an analogy, Facebook is a tolled bridge on an river that flows downstream for an infinite amount of miles. Anyone can build their own bridge on this river, or use already set up non-tolled bridges. By tolling the people who cross the Facebook bridge, is Facebook really oppressing the entire river and both sides of it? No. They are just making it convenient for users who are in that area, but for a cost.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
You wrote originally in this thread: They [refering also to facebook] are both SaaSS. Magic Banana posts: It is not SaaSS. and your answer: I agree with this. Fbit does not. I think you're rather twisting things around so you finally reach the conclusion that your point is proven.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
On 08/10/13 16:01, oralfloss wrote: To make an analogy, Facebook is a tolled bridge on an river that flows downstream for an infinite amount of miles. Anyone can build their own bridge on this river, or use already set up non-tolled bridges. By tolling the people who cross the Facebook bridge, is Facebook really oppressing the entire river and both sides of it? No. They are just making it convenient for users who are in that area, but for a cost. But to continue that analogy, many of your friends can only be reached across that single tolled bridge on the internet. They probably know that it's the only bridge, but they don't know anything else (or care). Some people say that the bridge toll operator is nice, and would never unfairly block someone from crossing it. Of course I think that's bullshit. Facebook can stop you from crossing that bridge whenever they feel like it. Whereas other more decentralised, federated protocols like email and XMPP make users more reachable by other bridges. If one bridge is cut off, another bridge can always be used. Or maybe there is a ferry you can catch. Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The problem with analogies is we have to be very careful that they make sense. I think your analogy is does not. A bridge, in this sense of the word, is a structure (in this case you claim facebook) carrying a road (in this case I assume digital information) across something (for traditional bridges, a river, a road, etc. -- in your analogy, I am not sure what it is). So, a bridge connects 2 points basically. A tolled bridge is one which charges you a fee to cross. Bridges are not meant for people to live on them, they are meant to be crossed. Now, imagine if you will, a gated community and you have to be a member to belong to this gated community. There is a wall all around the community, and people live inside. Once inside, you can use some of it's bridges to access the outside. Some services and corporations can get inside this community, but not people, unless you happen to live there. I have already called facebook a gated community or walled garden and you have already dismissed it, so I'm weary about turning this into a circular argument. However, I cannot concede that facebook is a bridge; it does not behave like one. Facebook is a gated community with many tolled bridges. In order to get in as a physical person, you must pay with your privacy. In order to get in, as a corporation, you must pay for advertisement. And a few other bridge variants connecting the community with the digital world at large. Only one type of connection given to the outside world with the community; a limited peeping hole (try looking inside facebook without an account). All the bridges and the peeping hole are controlled by facebook. If you follow Moglen's argument, facebook is not free media. Why is it not? Because it is media that consumes you. Free media, according to him, is media that does not watch you watch it, listen to you listen to it or read you reading it. For the time being, the only visible consequence you can see from this model is the targeted advertising. However, what it really is is 24-7 total surveillance of its users. He compares it to Lubianka. The turnkey totalitarianism that total surveillance enables should be quite obvious. The potential for censorship should also be quite obvious. In any case, I really hope you are right not to be concerned and I am wrong about the negative potential of services like facebook, for all of our sakes. It took the Third Reich one year to locate all the Jews in Germany. With facebook it would take 1 day. I believe that we should shape our governments, or services, and our life in such a way to minimize the potential for abuse, given the worse possible outcome (lets say, for illustration only, someone like Pol Pot becomes dictator in the U.S.). The moment we start creating solutions and policies that assume benevolent leaders in order for abuse not to take place, we are setting ourselves up for disaster. Like I said, I sincerely hope that I am wrong and you are right.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Well, first I apologize for not replying sooner. I was without internet for a few days -.- Next, i would like to thanks everyone who gave some kind of feedback, and i would like to say this: this thread was mostly supposed to be fun to begin with. Not a very serious topic, just a fun thought to discuss, and I am happy that many different interpretations were given to my question. I was not really asking about which free software to use to do this and that, it was just about... a perspective. Some people actually took it as how to use facebook without proprietary software... well, good for you :P I won't be using facebook, but to each his own :P Thanks to everyone and keep discussing whatever you think is worth discussing inside this thread. For me, the information posted was already useful in one way or another. Thanks guys!
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I was joking about software used to make the stamp. LOL. The letter can be shredded after being read. But who could be bothered to raid a recycling bin
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Given the terms that fbit was using to define SaaSS, they would both be. I don't believe either are. When I try to put things using my own definitions all fbit can do is make his own, so I use those definitions instead. When other people butt in to the conversation, they assume that I actually prefer those definitions, and I do not.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
But to continue that analogy, many of your friends can only be reached across that single tolled bridge on the internet. They probably know that it's the only bridge, but they don't know anything else (or care). That is their own ignorance that is impairing them, not Facebook. They can make their own bridges or cross free ones if they like. Some people say that the bridge toll operator is nice, and would never unfairly block someone from crossing it. Of course I think that's bullshit. Facebook can stop you from crossing that bridge whenever they feel like it. That is their choice. It's their bridge. Whereas other more decentralised, federated protocols like email and XMPP make users more reachable by other bridges. If one bridge is cut off, another bridge can always be used. Or maybe there is a ferry you can catch. People are free to use those too, but using the Facebook bridge isn't going to cut-off your freedom to use those other bridges.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The problem with analogies is we have to be very careful that they make sense. I think your analogy does not. A bridge, in this sense of the word, is a structure (in this case you claim facebook) carrying a road (in this case I assume digital information) across something (for traditional bridges, a river, a road, etc. -- in your analogy, I am not sure what it is). So, a bridge connects 2 points basically. A tolled bridge is one which charges you a fee to cross. Bridges are not meant for people to live on them, they are meant to be crossed. Bridges are a way to get things from one side to another. Technically speaking, this would be data/information. They are carrying things across the river, which is what prevents the people from communicating. In real life, this would be travel distance. It stops people from easily communicating from one side to another, so they use the bridges (the internet - Facebook, email, xmpp, etc.) for communications. If you follow Moglen's argument, facebook is not free media. Facebook may not be free media, but it isn't preventing you from using any other form of free media. There are always going to be different ways to communicate, some less censored than others. In any case, I really hope you are right not to be concerned and I am wrong about the negative potential of services like facebook, for all of our sakes. It took the Third Reich one year to locate all the Jews in Germany. With facebook it would take 1 day. I believe that we should shape our governments, or services, and our life in such a way to minimize the potential for abuse, given the worse possible outcome (lets say, for illustration only, someone like Pol Pot becomes dictator in the U.S.). The moment we start creating solutions and policies that assume benevolent leaders in order for abuse not to take place, we are setting ourselves up for disaster. Like I said, I sincerely hope that I am wrong and you are right. This isn't all about who is wrong or who is right, as I mentioned earlier, but rather it is about defending freedom. Sure, giving leaders information/power can be disastrous under certain circumstances, but naturally all humans seek power. We fear those who have greater power than us, so we always seek more. In an anarchic/realist society, we go to war with those who we fear will gain more power than us eventually, to prevent that from happening. Just like the Peloponessian war, which realists claim was inevitable, the gaining of power always leads to tension. The thing here that realists never realize, and has been proven beneficial and viable by hundreds of thousands of scholars, is that diplomacy exists. Disaster isn't inevitable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
oralfloss, I had decided to give you the last word, but this seems to be the thread that keeps on giving. I don't use facebook so I'm not sure if it is SaaSS or PaaS and to tell you the truth, I don't think it matters. I had already conceded to Magic Banana's post where he said neither Trisquel nor facebook are SaaSS: You are right. I will do so again: facebook at its core is not SaaSS and you can run it using 100% free software. You can also run SaaSS on it as far as I understand. However, you keep arguing that facebook respects your freedom. Somehow you have concluded that as long as you run free software then whatever else you do is irrelevant to your freedom. I disagree. The intrusion into your privacy, the mass profiling, surveillance, social mapping, predictive modeling and all the other BI that is run on all the data given to facebook constitute attacks against freedom. I contend that without privacy you cannot have freedom. I consider facebook one of the most dangerous attacks on freedom of thought currently. It is a monstrous creation and I cannot wait for the day when it is gone. I just hope we have something ethical to replace it with.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
This sounds like common sense, but women like a man who has good self esteem and is confident in his conviction. If you are funny, that helps a lot too as a good sense of humor can really break the ice on a date and sustain it if it becomes a relationship. Also remember that it is not a requirement that your future mate is like you. It is good to have some common ground that you can agree on and shared interests, but your relationship will be strong if she can be your polar opposite. For example, I have a strong background in acting as well as improv/sketch comedy and I wouldn't date another theatre chick. It would be too exausting and I prefer women that are a little bit more grounded and serious.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I disagree. The intrusion into your privacy, the mass profiling, surveillance, social mapping, predictive modeling and all the other BI that is run on all the data given to facebook constitute attacks against freedom. I contend that without privacy you cannot have freedom. That's what a privacy policy is for. I am free to use their services given those conditions, just as all other services have certain conditions. There have been many people asking about why extensive swearing isn't allowed on Trisquel, and there are always reasons given. Is it right to say removing extensive swearing on Trisquel is an attack on my freedom? By your standards it is, and that is where I do not agree. Ergo, I don't believe Facebook takes away freedom.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
On 08/10/13 09:54, oralfloss wrote: That's what a privacy policy is for. I am free to use their services given those conditions, just as all other services have certain conditions. There have been many people asking about why extensive swearing isn't allowed on Trisquel, and there are always reasons given. Is it right to say removing extensive swearing on Trisquel is an attack on my freedom? By your standards it is, and that is where I do not agree. Ergo, I don't believe Facebook takes away freedom. The difference between Facebook and the Trisquel forum/list is that Facebook is a global, centralised method of communications, which mixes private, group and public communication into one service. That's dangerous. Trisquel, on the other hand, is a public list which, if users are using the list, enables users to communicate off-list and out of its control. Because it's built using free software we can easily replace the list. Archives are also available for download. It's completely different to Facebook. I do think that centralisation does threaten the freedom of communication on the internet. Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I understand what you're saying. I just don't think you realize the implications. I'm not saying what they're doing is illegal (although I do think it should be). All I'm saying is that freedom is not just about free software. I highly recommend Eben Moglen's 2012 keynote at Re:publica. I'd like to know what you think: https://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-WhyFreedomOfThoughtRequiresFreeMediaAndWhyFreeMedia He basically concludes saying: We need free software. We need free hardware. We need free bandwidth. We need free media.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
No matter what services you use, unless they are 100% p2p, they will be centralised.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
And now look up the definition of compel. A demand for a donation like donate now! doesn't coerce anyone in the slightest.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
With that logic, facebook doesn't coerce anyone either.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
It doesn't. Nobody is forced to join Facebook. So of course, you shouldn't join Facebook.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
It doesn't. Point proven. So of course, you shouldn't join Facebook. That depends on how much you value privacy, not how much you value freedom. This thread is about free software, not privacy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I think your right and fortunately I've been pretty good about discouraging the people around me from adopting it. Unfortunately most don't understand the implications from the loss of privacy. Humorously it's the ones who are free software minded who seem to all be using it or have a desire to use it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Facebook's content can be rendered with a free software Web browser (such as Trisquel's Abrowser). The mobile version of Facebook does not make this browser run proprietary Javascript. So, unless you prove the contrary, Facebook can be used with 100% free software. I'm not trying to prove contrary. That is my own statement. I'm just confused because you seem to say facebook isn't SaaSS while fbit (originally) says it is. Facebook's main use is to distribute content and to communicate with other users. It is not doing one's own computing. It is not SaaSS. I agree with this. Fbit does not. Facebook's problem is that it infringes its users' privacies. It has even become a threat to humanity that is as huge as its database (that is now known to be shared with the NSA). I do not like Facebook. At all. But that is not a reason to lie about it and pretend that it cannot be used with free software or that it is SaaSS. That is not intellectually honest. We are to convince people not to use Facebook for the real problems it raises. I am not the one making those claims, that is fbit. I am the one who said Facebook can be used with 100% free software. I was simply showing that in the case some does consider facebook as SaaSS (again, I do not believe this), it would also apply to many other services, including Trisquel forums.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I only use Facebook to contact a few of my legacy friends from before I stopped using things like Facebook. Eventually I hope to convince those few of them to at least communicate via email or Jabber with me. As far as I can tell, Facebook uses a closed-up, proprietary XMPP protocol for chat. It is a web standard after all. Of course this doesn't mean their chat is free: you can only talk to other FB users, and whatever's going on on their servers is obviously proprietary.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I am glad that the original poster has started this thread. This is something that I have been thinking about, ever since I learned that there was another gay boy on the bus at school. Each day, I see him at the center of attention, with an iPad and an iPhone, asking people if they have a Facebook or if they can send him a message on Facebook about something. He's so smooth and popular; I know I'd be so awkward that he wouldn't like me. It makes me feel so lonely. I think I should go ahead and say I live on LibrePlanet rather than Earth. I even compromised and relapsed to using Android, Kik and Omegle. Alas!
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
He's so smooth and popular; I know I'd be so awkward that he wouldn't like me. But you never tried? So how can you know? Imagine you have a facebook account and finally you two become a couple. How would it feel knowing that this happens just because of this website? I don't know; personally, I would prefer staying lonely. At least this is no illusion.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Yes.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The whole point of this argument, actually this whole thread, is that the social networking service Facebook can be used with 100% free software. And, according to you, it isn't even SaaSS. Point proved.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
You keep claiming your term Reductio ad absurdum like it means something, but you have yet to explain the line at which something is considered that. Anyone can reduce to absurdity, but who are you to decide at which point that occurs? Is it just your own sense of false security that you use to gain a moral high ground for an argument? Sounds like you're not really defending freedom here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
It doesn't really matter and I wish you no ill. We can just agree to disagree. I can pay some money in exchange for Trisquel and you can pay with your privacy in exchange for facebook. Let's move on.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
That's the end of this on my side. I think we can safely end this thread here. Despite all this, you still feel the need to get your last word in. You really are just trying to end this with a moral high ground, rather than defending freedom.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
co·erce transitive verb to compel to an act or choice You really are just projecting here; coercion isn't always bad. I never in any way said it is bad to ask for donations, but they are trying to convince you to donate by putting up those advertisements. That is coercion.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
snip -- Facebook respects your freedom if you use the mbasic mode. snip -- I don't know what oralfloss means by this. I imagine mbasic mode is some sort of mobile mode? In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of all the code you run through their server. Much less give you the ability to copy or modify it. I don't see how this could respect your freedom. Without further explanation I would say it does not. snip -- Disregarding privacy and tracking, you can also use Facebook Chat with an XMPP client like Pidgin. snip -- As far as I understand (I have never used this), facebook chat does not use XMPP. Rather, it emulates it so you can connect to it using Pidgin. This means you can only chat to other facebook users. So, it is not XMPP and not an open standard. Rather, a proprietary chat that interfaces with Pidgin through some sort of API. Again, something that does not excite me. Since I do not use facebook and I have no intention to endorse its use, I would think that using their proprietary chat service would mean just that. Perhaps slightly better than using it through their software platform, but not much of an improvement. That being said, I would also refuse to sign into Skype if they allowed it on Pidgin, as long as they do not allow me to communicate with Skype users through an open standard. I just refuse to opt-in to monopolistic/gated virtual community practices. Maybe I'm too strict about it. Who knows. The result is I have very few people I can chat with. For now. I would rather dedicate my time to convincing a few of them to run a real XMPP than use fb myself. I have convinced 2 people so far. Not very good :(
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
m.facebook.com is as close to fre as you're likely to get. It even works with a browser like lynx or emacs-w3m. I use facebook xmpp chat; wish it had audio. Facebook can be used with free software on the client side, as a service. True, it's not ideal...
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of all the code you run through their server. Much less give you the ability to copy or modify it. I don't see how this could respect your freedom. Without further explanation I would say it does not. This is true for most of the sites of the www and no problem if we're talking about our freedom. You deserve control over *your* computer, not over *their* computer. Even if the code of a website is released as free software we can never be sure if they're really running this code and not a different one.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The only issue is that the stamp may have been designed with non-free software, and the postal service may use non-free sorting systems. Hopefully, they don't have any system to read the letter. Honestly, I think that is over thinking this. I couldn't care less how they made the stamp, I just want to make sure the glue on its back is not poisonous xD Unfortunatly it is a known fact that many times letters are read and people never notice it =S But yeah, that would be a much more sane world to live in, a world to comunicate with our own words instead of pixels. lol
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
1. Those are not so bad ;) 2. Not my cup of tea, but not so bad themselves. 3. So... they are SonGoku in supersayian form... with boobs is that it? =P
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Well said. I think people these days need to take a look at your past life (through the net) before they decide if they want to be your friends. Lol quite a stupid concept if you ask me :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
hey, you convinced two people... you should be happy, that is more than most of us can actually ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
:) My idea was... I convince 2, they each convince 2 more... etc. Unfortunately I think neither of them convinced anyone else yet. I don't lose hope though.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
My feeling is that I deserve control over the programs I run, whether on my computer or not. You are right that it is the case that many websites try to run code (beside html...and you can see that source, if you consider it code). I try not to use run any of the so called web 2.0 shit. No java, I mostly disable all javascript, cookies, flash. You're right though, I cannot control 100%. Using facebook is still one of the worse ways to give up your freedom. If not yet, it will be. It is a stupidity to give one corporation (plus their associates, customers, government buddies) all that personal information. But again, to each his own (the problem is programs like fb have collective implications).
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I see. I have no clue about facebook, mobile or not. It may be as close as you are likely to get, if you want to use facebook. You can still be freer and not use it. The fb chat is not xmpp. From facebook developers page: Facebook Chat should be compatible with every XMPP client, but is not a full XMPP server. It should be thought of as a proxy into the world of Facebook Chat on www.facebook.com. As a result, it has several behaviors that differ slightly from what you would expect from a traditional XMPP service: -Your client cannot send or receive HTML messages -Because roster items and presence subscriptions are based on the user's Facebook friends, they cannot be created or deleted using the standard XMPP mechanisms. -Facebook Chat is terse when sending updates for new friends, because the negotiation happens outside of XMPP. Future versions of Facebook Chat may be more conformant. -The user's own Jabber ID (JID) is different from the Jabber ID that their contacts will see because the translation is done internally. -Arbitrary IQ stanzas cannot be passed between clients. -Presence probes do not currently work. -Non-SASL authentication with the jabber:iq:auth namespace as described in XEP-0078 is not currently supported. The XML parser does not yet fully handle XML namespaces. Please stick to the same style as the examples in XMPP RFCs 3920 and 3921 when using XML namespaces. The most important deficiency being you're either stuck inside their walled garden, or out. I wonder if at least it gives you the chance to use OTR?
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I don't know what oralfloss means by this. I imagine mbasic mode is some sort of mobile mode? In any case I doubt facebook even releases the source of all the code you run through their server. Much less give you the ability to copy or modify it. Mbasic mode is a mode where no scripts are needed, and it is purely server-side. There's no proprietary javascript or anything of that nature. If you think server-side code is a major concern, you should stop using the internet entirely. I don't see how this could respect your freedom. Without further explanation I would say it does not. This also goes for just about any website. If it's not my computer that is being used, then there is no problem. With your logic it would be bad to use just about any website on the internet. As far as I understand (I have never used this), facebook chat does not use XMPP. Rather, it emulates it so you can connect to it using Pidgin. This means you can only chat to other facebook users. So, it is not XMPP and not an open standard. Rather, a proprietary chat that interfaces with Pidgin through some sort of API. IRC is a chat that runs on tons of different clients, most of which are free. Are you going to say that's a bad thing too just because you can't see what happens on every server? I just refuse to opt-in to monopolistic/gated virtual community practices. There is a big difference between this and using proprietary software. I don't understand how you can call it gated just because you can't use facebook to send something to someone on a completely different client. Monopolistic is also a wrong term for this case because there's obviously hundreds of other different social networks as if enough haven't been mentioned in this thread already. Nobody is reliant on Facebook. Maybe I'm too strict about it. Who knows. Obviously you are, because with your logic, nobody would be able to use any sort of data transfer unless they could see everything that happens server-side. That is proposterously and practially impossible. The result is I have very few people I can chat with. For now. I would rather dedicate my time to convincing a few of them to run a real XMPP than use fb myself. I have convinced 2 people so far. Not very good :( I can see why.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
My feeling is that I deserve control over the programs I run, whether on my computer or not. You aren't running them if they aren't on the computer you are using. If you give someone a request or submit data, you are still not running a program on their computer. You are right that it is the case that many websites try to run code (beside html...and you can see that source, if you consider it code). That contradicts what you said in another post. Are you changing your view points for the sake of argument? I try not to use run any of the so called web 2.0 shit. Then you shouldn't be on this website. If you don't want to run web 2.0 then you idealy wouldn't be contributing to the internet at all. No java, I mostly disable all javascript, cookies, flash. You're right though, I cannot control 100%. And you shouldn't be able to.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Using facebook is still one of the worse ways to give up your freedom. If not yet, it will be. It is a stupidity to give one corporation (plus their associates, customers, government buddies) all that personal information. You are voluntarily giving information away. You are not forced to give information. Same applies with identi.ca. But again, to each his own (the problem is programs like fb have collective implications). There is a difference between a program and a service. There are collective implications with any service you use.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
You are voluntarily giving information away. You are not forced to give information. Indeed, it is not physical coercion, which is what I guess you are referring to when you say you are not forced to... I don't use it, so it is possible not to do so. However, there are many forms of coercion, such as psychological and social; facebook employs those types of coercion. Also, many people do not understand the negative consequences of allowing facebook to profile them particularly, and society at large. This is because the effects are not immediately tangible. There is a difference between a program and a service. There are collective implications with any service you use. There's some interesting discussion out there regarding SaaSS. What are the differences for you? SaaSS takes away your freedoms. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Mbasic mode is a mode where no scripts are needed, and it is purely server-side. There's no proprietary javascript or anything of that nature. If you think server-side code is a major concern, you should stop using the internet entirely. This also goes for just about any website. If it's not my computer that is being used, then there is no problem. With your logic it would be bad to use just about any website on the internet. I believe this logical fallacy is sometimes called reductio ad absurdum. I insist there is a difference between my posting on the Trisquel forum and using facebook, a mass surveillance, data mining, profiling system. This is not black and white. Also, your argument that If it is not my computer that is being used, then there is no problem is flawed in my opinion. If I give you access to a remote terminal running Windows, then there's no problem? hmm. IRC is a chat that runs on tons of different clients, most of which are free. Are you going to say that's a bad thing too just because you can't see what happens on every server? No, I am going to say that XMPP is an open standard communications protocol using an open systems approach. Facebook can call their chat XMPP, but that doesn't make it so. It is a closed communications protocol that interfaces with XMPP chat clients through an API. It is not XMPP. Just like their code is not free software either. I don't understand how you can call it gated just because you can't use facebook to send something to someone on a completely different client. Well, what's not to understand? That's the definition of a gated community. Monopolistic is also a wrong term for this case because there's obviously hundreds of other different social networks as if enough haven't been mentioned in this thread already. Nobody is reliant on Facebook. I'm talking about market dominance, not the ancient Greek definition. You may want to think about the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft for an example of what I mean. Most people are reliant on facebook and thus trapped into it. In my case, at least 95% of the people I know are on facebook. I choose not to be a part of the gated community, so I am exiled. Obviously you are, because with your logic, nobody would be able to use any sort of data transfer unless they could see everything that happens server-side. That is proposterously and practially impossible. Again, it is not binary. I think this kind of logical fallacy is called a false dichotomy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Internet forums have been around since the early 80's. Added to that, trisquel.info is community funded. We are users. On facebook and other such services, you are the product, not the user. Maybe the term web 2.0 was confusing. I don't use SaaSS.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Internet forums have been around since the early 80's. Added to that, trisquel.info is community funded. We are users. On facebook and other such services, you are the product, not the user. All of those are owned by people, run by people, and contributed to by users. Where's the huge difference that changes Facebook users into products? Maybe the term web 2.0 was confusing. I don't use SaaSS. Service as a Software Substitute (SaaSS) means using a service as a substitute for running your copy of a program.[1] Don't forget you're on this website.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Indeed, it is not physical coercion, which is what I guess you are referring to when you say you are not forced to... I don't use it, so it is possible not to do so. However, there are many forms of coercion, such as psychological and social; facebook employs those types of coercion. And Trisquel employs the same rhetoric to get you to donate. Are you saying convincing messages are an attack against your freedom too? Sounds like you're attacking the right to freedom of speech. Also, many people do not understand the negative consequences of allowing facebook to profile them particularly, and society at large. This is because the effects are not immediately tangible. That is their loss. Facebook has a cleary written privacy policy and it is the fault of the users that they do not read it. There's some interesting discussion out there regarding SaaSS. What are the differences for you? I believe if the proprietary code isn't running on my computer, I am not responsible for it and therefore have no right to redistribute it or read its source code. SaaSS takes away your freedoms. From your link: Concretely, it means that someone sets up a network server that does certain computing tasks Trisquel uses software to post the comments you make.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I believe this logical fallacy is sometimes called reductio ad absurdum. I insist there is a difference between my posting on the Trisquel forum and using facebook, a mass surveillance, data mining, profiling system. This is not black and white. They are both SaaSS. Also, your argument that 'If it is not my computer that is being used, then there is no problem' is flawed in my opinion. If I give you access to a remote terminal running Windows, then there's no problem? Just as RMS uses others' computers to run proprietary programs sometimes, as he has claimed more than once. No, I am going to say that XMPP is an open standard communications protocol using an open systems approach. Facebook can call their chat XMPP, but that doesn't make it so. It is a closed communications protocol that interfaces with XMPP chat clients through an API. It is not XMPP. Just like their code is not free software either. Just as Facebook can see all information that goes through their servers, XMPP servers can do likewise. Your judgment of trust isn't going to define the definition of SaaSS. Well, what's not to understand? That's the definition of a gated community. Does that mean it's gated to not be able to order Papa John's Pizza through Trisquel comments? Everything is made with a purpose. I'm talking about market dominance, not the ancient Greek definition. You may want to think about the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft for an example of what I mean. Most people are reliant on facebook and thus trapped into it. In my case, at least 95% of the people I know are on facebook. I choose not to be a part of the gated community, so I am exiled. mo·nop·o·ly n. pl. mo·nop·o·lies 1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service Keywords: Exclusive, Control
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I think we can safely end this thread here. Now Trisquel is coercing me to donate. lol. Anyway, you keep reducing everything else to the absurd.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum 2) XMPP is an open standard. The opposite of the gated community example. 3) There are various degrees of monopoly, and rarely does anything approaching pure monopoly exist. Thus, the term is generally used in a relative sense rather than an absolute one. For example, a company can still be considered a monopoly even if it faces competition from (1) a few relatively small scale suppliers of the same or similar product(s) or (2) somewhat different goods or services that can to some limited extent be substituted for the product(s) supplied by the monopolist. A business that produces multiple products can be considered a monopoly even if it has a monopoly with regard to only one of the products. http://www.linfo.org/monopoly.html That's the end of this on my side.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
You are right. Thanks :) our privacy and our freedom.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I have convinced 2 people so far.( I think it's great just to make good examples of ourselves by publicly rejecting these big, centralized services -- especially services that are known to comply with massive state surveillance of users. It's hard to convince others (I can't even convince my own family to stop using Facebook), but at very least we seed an idea in their minds, and they'll start to think about why we're not participating. I used Facebook for several years. Even after I read RMS's notes about Facebook, I remained a user for at least another year, but the idea of leaving was seeded. It just took some time for the idea to grow before I finally decided it was wrong for me to participate. During the time I was on Facebook, I hadn't just given up my own privacy, I had betrayed the privacy of others by posting their pictures and labeling them. I had helped train Facebook's face recognition system.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Now that was a very informative post. Thanks! Like I have said, in my country there are not a lot of clubs and meetings like there are in the USA, but I will give a thought about doing a trip. Oh and for the record, it's not like I am in search for a girl or anything, the thought just popped in my head the other day. Don't want anyone to think that I am in free software because of girls xD actually I would hardly do anything just to get a girl, I have a little bit too much self respect for that ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I know what you mean. One of these days I went out without taking my cell phone ( I am starting to treat my cell phone aas a regular home phone :P) and when I got back I had a couple of lost calls (parents and a friend). When I returned the calls and told them that I didn't answer because I was out they were like What do you want a phone for if you don't take it with you all the time? xD AHAHAH. As for the Snowden incident, I have been trying to explain to people that he is not a terrorist, but the media actually makes him look like it -.- stupid media.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The computer may be broken twenty years from now. Letters are less likely to break of mechanical failure. :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Haha Sal, what a novel idea ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Well-put. Although I cannot yet get rid of Google Hangouts.. because of girls. Tried experimenting with little to zero cellphone use.. but caused me unbearable mental states stemming from utter social isolation.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
You could always ask them for an address, and send them a letter. That requires no proprietary software, assuming you write the letter with free software / by hand. Then you can include an envelope for the response. Easy. The only issue is that the stamp may have been designed with non-free software, and the postal service may use non-free sorting systems. Hopefully, they don't have any system to read the letter. This system is particuly good, because even if PRISM crack your system and read every data packet that goes in/out, they cannot read your letter without finding it, and opening it. If the letter arrives open, she will notice.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I'd be surprised if there weren't lots of options just about everywhere. Its more likely your just unaware of them. But-yea I recall another post saying something similar I wrote. I didn't recall who I suggested something like this to before. I don't see anything wrong with trying to find a compatible mate. Most people it seems just hit on the most attractive thing that comes along. If anything I'd have more respect for somebody whom is trying to find another who actually means something to them.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I've thought long and hard about this situation, and my main solutions are: exchange e-mail addresses or phone numbers. And why not? they are a traditional and still relevant ways of communication. Given, many people are probably so deep into social networking that they won't even try to communicate in a 1to1 way like a phone call or a messaging. But on the other hand, would you want to date someone who is unable to talk except in a public forum?
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
My wife always says: just because you have a mobile phone doesn't mean it's a leash for your friends to always reach you 24/7 Also, I don't answer my phone unless I'm in an appropriate area, even if I have it with me. I assume other people have the same liberty ;-)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Facebook respects your freedom if you use the mbasic mode. Privacy and tracking is a whole different topic.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Wouldn't gramma store all of the memorabilia on a 3.5-inch floppy disk? Oh, right, there's no computer that can read a floppy anymore. ;-)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Disregarding privacy and tracking, you can also use Facebook Chat with an XMPP client like Pidgin. I use it to keep in contact with people I already know who don't use anything but Facebook. That helps me keep in contact without constantly reporting my activities publicly online ;-)
[Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Ok, now, please, don't take this too seriously. It's a thought that came along the other day, and maybe it would be fun to discuss here. But let's keep in mind dating girls (or guys for that matter) is not the main target of free software ;) So, let's say you are out with a couple of friends, they run into a group of girls they know, you get to meet them, bla bla bla, next thing you know you strike a conversation with one of them, but your friends want to go, you can only change contacts and talk later. Nothing major EXCEPT for the fact that these days people only use Skype and Facebook. You don't have an account? No. You should create one. I don't like those services. See ya never weirdo! -.- Lol, how do you guys avoid these situations? Unless you are all married of course and don't have to deal with these situations xD Also, how do you girls deal with it when a guys says to you I don't use facebook because they spy on me and such... ?? Thanks guys :P
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
E-mail? Phone numbers?
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I would like it to be that simple :P These days people have forgotten about those simple things like emails and phone numbers. They think only in terms of facebook and skype. And if you don't have facebook you are a weirdo -.- just because they can't go snoop around on your previous dates/relationships/etc. But hey, like I said, it was just a thought that popped in my head one of these days, and just wanted to ask if you guys have any way around these situations. Thanks for the reply anyway onpon4 ;)
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Nobody you talk to uses a cell phone? I find that hard to believe. If someone looks down on you because you don't use Facebook, I would seriously question whether that person is worth talking to.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Normally I explain the reasons why I don't use facebook or skype in a few sentences; I try to put my words carfully so no facebook user in the group feels attacked. If a girl really doesn't want to listen or calls me a weirdo because I don't do something bad many people do - well, then I'm lucky I got rid of this person! A real cool girl will be impressed because I don't use facebook ;) All the others... I can live without them. Same thing with smoking or alcohol... if this is the basis and precondition for my new friendship I can gladly refuse. But yeah I think we feel the actual power of facebook. Kind of a social pull - I don't know the right expression in english.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Yeah, there is a lot of pressure into using certain services. maybe it's because everyone uses it or it' not really that bad or even I don't have anything to hide. But like jacob appelbaum has said we all have something to hide or else we would walk around naked ;) I just think it's a bad thing that sometimes people won't talk to us because of something so stupid =/ People around me have phones yes, lol of course they do. But they feel sometimes more confortable giving their facebook or skype rather than their phone number. Maybe they are the ones with something to hide ;) :P eheheh
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Try to talk and meet girls in Diaspora, pump.io, etc :-D
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Amaze him/her by asking for a land address and write them a letter. My wife still has the letters I wrote to her 25 years ago when we first met. The same cannot be said for any of the more recent texts and emails.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
That is a good idea actually ;) Doubt that I will find anyone near me in there, but its worth a shot. Now, it would be really laughable if a girl there would go like hey I rarely come here, add me on facebook xD LOOL thanks!
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Aww, the beautiful 80s and 90s *.* Sometimes I wish I had lived in those years. Too bad that if you ask for their address they will most certainly call the cops to arrest the stalker xD ahaha. I totally agree with you however that those were the things that held more meaning.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
Too bad that if you ask for their address they will most certainly call the cops to arrest the stalker xD lol true, true
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
The last I checked there are still lots of places to find like-minded individuals. I can think of dozens of places within 40 minutes of me and I'm not exactly in a major city. Suggestions: 2600 meetings - http://www.2600.com/meetings/ Any kind of tech meetup (like Drupal meetups) or GNU/Linux user groups Conferences/events of all sorts (FSF events like Libre Planet, GNU/Linux events, DEF CON, Black Hat, HOPE, Chaos Computer Club, etc) Places with similar social aims (FreeGeek) Hacker spaces Consider traveling to events farther away that particular peek your interest. It's often much cheaper than you may think. There are various ways to get to and stay cheap. Suggestions: If its semi-local hitch a ride (check Craigslist, event wikis, send some emails, etc) Check bus fairs for companies that offer extremely cheap fairs; Boltbus, Megabus, Chinatown, etc and get tickets way in advance for crazy early hours (It can run as little as $13 USD between cities if you book early and get the ticket for off-hours) Staying overnight? Try hostels, sharing hotel rooms, or simply find a locals couch to crash on I traveled about 534 miles by bus round trip and it cost very little to attend the GNU 30th as an example. $20 USD for the ticket from a small town in NJ to NYC, $30 USD for a ticket from NYC to Boston (could have been $13 though if I had bought early and gotten tickets for the right times), $18 USD for a week subway/bus pass, $0 to crash on a locals couch, and I think $16 to come back to NYC, and another $20 to return to my home town. In total it was just $104 USD. In the end I could have done it for less than $90 USD. Other trips I've taken farther and it's cost very little. I hit a Portland event for about $300 USD. That took me all the way across the United States. I did Bellevue, WA (cross country and then to a small town that was 4 hours out of the way from a major city) for about $450 USD. I've also done events that were less than $20 USD and within 40 miles. And other events I was at for just a day for $130 USD (where the tickets actually cost real money, like $90 ish) within 2 hours by bus. Keep in mind I wasn't going for love. Just the events. Point is they are great places to meet new people and it probably won't bankrupt you. If thats too much you may find that you can get away with paying nothing. Just find events in your city. I've been to various meetups within 20 min and most real cities will have numerous options.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
They need reeducating. Can you imagine granny getting out an old 486, powering it up and showing the grandchildren the lovely emails your grandfather sent me when we were courting? I suppose they might be printed off, but it's not the same. So, the answer is, you don't ask for their land address, you write yours on a sheet of paper and hand it to them, with a smile, and say write to me.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to date girls using free software :P
I am fortunate enough not to have to go out to look for romance, but both personally and professionally, I have to agree that life is made difficult without using these services. Having no facebook, skype, linkedin, google things, etc. and having to explain why is a drawback with acquaintances, family and business relations. Even some close friends think I'm strange. Lately, and especially if it is someone I don't know well I just say I don't like these things and I don't go into details. Sometimes I find people who look up to me when I say I have no facebook and will say something like Wow, I wish I could close my account too. How do you manage? I usually just say that I felt happier when I stopped using it and maybe they would too. Add to that the fact that I have almost discontinued my use of a cell phone and it is not easy. I find all of this has become easier to bear since Snowden. Friends may still think I'm strange, but now most at least acknowledge I'm not crazy or paranoid :)
