Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images]
Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance?DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally).DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 13, 2005 11:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: Is it not me. It is, in reality, Jonathan.DAVEH: Your son? His son's name is Jacob. He was born Wednesday past.I did, however, appreciate the humour. Did anyone, other than myself, take note that when the 'initiators' (John, Bill, Jonathan (currently off TT) are absent, that the 'traffic' lessens (as in 'nil').DAVEH: The silence has been deafening! I've considered posting a few test messages just to see if INNGLORY was down, but I didn't want to be accused of over posting.. ;-) I do not include DM as an initiator as he simply isn't one. Poor David, he was born with outdated thoughts in his head.(ala Anne Richards) The 'thinkers' are on the way back from Mississippi. I'm confident that they will have much to say.DAVEH: ??? Does that mean John, Bill Jonathan will be coming back with a vengeance?-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Fwd: My Daily Insights]]
Thanks. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 13, 2005 20:34 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [TruthTalk] Fwd: My Daily Insights]] - Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: My Daily Insights] I've read this before, and it still brings tears to my eyes! God really does see the heart!! Vee What Matters In Life Author Unknown Some people understand life better And they call some of these people retarded... At the Seattle Special Olympics, nine contestants, all physically or mentally disabled, assembled at the starting line for the 100-yard dash. At the gun, they all started out , not exactly in a dash, but with a relish to run the race to the finish and win. All, that is, except one little boy who stumbled on the asphalt, tumbled over a couple of times, and began to cry. The other eight heard the boy cry. They slowed down and looked back. Then they all turned around and went back every one of them. One girl with Down's Syndrome bent down and kissed him and said, This will make it better. Then all nine linked arms and walked together to the finish line. Everyone in the stadium stood, the cheering went on for several minutes. People who were there are still telling the story... Why? Because deep down we know this one thing: What matters in this life is more than winning for ourselves. What matters in this life is helping others win, even if it means slowing down and changing our course. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
DAVEH says I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. I am sure all condemned criminals also prefer Mercy rather than Justice. PS 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. God's Justice, Judgement and Truth demands punishment for Sin. Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God JUDGEMENT PS 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. PS 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies EZ 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy 1 Pt 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. CONDEMNATION RM 8:3 God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. 2 PT 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly JN 3:18 he that believeth not is condemned already SENTENCE 2 Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead Just waiting for the executioner? From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
I know two sets of parents who, at their teen's (16 17 - one boy, one girl)requests, witnessed the departure of those who would not abide by the rules of the respective households. This is somewhat analagous to my understanding of what we're talking about. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 08:12 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DAVEH says I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. I am sure all condemned criminals also prefer Mercy rather than Justice. PS 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. God's Justice, Judgement and Truth demands punishment for Sin. Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God JUDGEMENT PS 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. PS 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies EZ 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy 1 Pt 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. CONDEMNATION RM 8:3 God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. 2 PT 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly JN 3:18 he that believeth not is condemned already SENTENCE 2 Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead Just waiting for the executioner? From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Yes, I am saying that! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
You are saying What??? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Yes, I am saying that! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence.
Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
That there is a larger context within which you should be reading Jesus' words. It's the same way that we all wish for our own words to be 'read'/heard. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? You are saying What??? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:02 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Yes, I am saying that! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Yes please explain this scripture to us!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
While you are at it LANCE, explain these also. Are you saying God will not judge anyone for their sin? Are you a universalist? JUDGEMENT PS 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. PS 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies EZ 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy 1 Pt 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. CONDEMNATION RM 8:3 God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. 2 PT 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly JN 3:18 he that believeth not is condemned already DEATH SENTENCE 2 Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the deadKevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes please explain this scripture to us!ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Then that makes Jesus a liar as he said MOST are on the road to DESTRUCTION! Who is the real liar?ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Then it annuls a great part of the scriptures, should we start tearing those pages out? Hell bound sinners do not want to acknowledge any fear of God, or his Hell They want to remodel before they move in. The party in Hell has been cancelled due to a great Fire. Can anyone explain just why there is a GREATER DAMNATION then? PS 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living GodShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images]
Dave wrote: I think one of the biggest /problems /(if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so o speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. Dave, if I may comment on your perspective of protestants... I do not find your perception at all be consitent with the Christians (protestants, if you prefer, although protestants does not encompass the whole of Christendom) I have known throughout my life. I know that God wants none to perish, and would like for all to come to Him. However, he is just at the same time, and those who refuse God will have an eternal life apart from Him. It is their own choice. Paul says that God is evident in all of creation, so no man is without excuse. I have never met a protestant that truly finds pleasure in the thought that unbeleivers will spend eternity apart from God, whatever that may be like. Nor have I ever met ANY Christian who believes that God relishes torture. However, I have heard that from unbeleivers who are looking for reasons to reject God. The bottom line is that God IS loving and merciful, and would like for all to come to Him, but he also is just. None of us are worthy, Dave as Paul said...none is without sin. And, no man is without excuse, because god is evident in creation. At the final call, either we wil have beleived, or we will not have beleived. And, only a merciful and just God can make that call...only He is worthy to open the book of life. I am truly sorry that you have that perspective of Christians. (Or, the subset called protestants if you prefer). I do not know where you have gotten your information, but it certainly does not reflect the Christians I know or have met. I have never felt that way. In fact, one of the toughest questions I have had to deal with since becoming a Christian is how such wonderful, sincerel, loving people, the Mormons, could be considered a cult, and perhaps rejected by God. I found that the answer lies not in the way one appears to behave, but that one beleives in the true God of thee universe, not some counterfeit. Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:21:01 -0800 Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest /problems /(if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. - Original Message - *From:* Dave Hansen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org mailto:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org *Sent:* March 13, 2005 11:15 *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: Is it not me. It is, in reality, Jonathan. DAVEH: Your son? His son's name is Jacob. He was born Wednesday past. I did, however, appreciate the humour. Did anyone, other than myself, take note that when the 'initiators' (John, Bill, Jonathan (currently off TT) are absent, that the 'traffic' lessens (as in 'nil'). DAVEH: The silence has been deafening! I've
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images]
What theological perspective is closest to the heart of God(?)...e.g., God thinks like ? On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:21:01 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief explanation. It seems to me that Protestants are far too eager to toss those who don't agree with their perspective of religion on the ash heap of hell, so to speak. Or rather, they seem to pleasure in the thought that God will forever punitively torture those who fail to walk that narrow path and enter the strait gate. I just don't feel comfortable believing in a God who relishes torture, Lance. I prefer to believe God is loving, merciful and would that all his creation benefit from their existence. ||
[TruthTalk] [Fwd: The Observer UK News No getting stoned in new Bible]
Hey Kevin. Read the link and then tell Lance how many copies to order for you. Terry http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0%2C6903%2C1436392%2C00.html The Observer UK News No getting stoned in new Bible.url Description: Binary data
RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving?
Lance: please interpret instead of giving mystical, meaningless explanations. What would be the outcome of the larger context SPECIFICALLY? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:29 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? That there is a larger context within which you should be reading Jesus' words. It's the same way that we all wish for our own words to be 'read'/heard. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? You are saying What??? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Yes, I am saying that! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 11:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Are you saying that the scripture you quoted annuls what Jesus said in Matt 7:13-14? If not, please explain what Matt 7:13 means to you. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:44 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? OK 'God is not willing that any should perish but, that all should come to repentance' 2 Peter 3 As per: 'Any loving parent would readily accept home a wayward daughter/son' - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 09:54 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? Then why dont you interpret this scripture for us so that we might understand your thinking, Lance? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:49 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? IFF Dave and I (and many others) have a 'more correct' understanding of this issue than yourself (and many, many, many..others) then you are misreading Jesus. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 05:07 Subject: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not loving? DaveH and Lance, You are arguing with Jesus, not DM, Jt, Kevin and Izzy. You condemn us for believing Jesus. Why is this? To say the we are eager for damnation of anyone who does not agree with our particular theology is a slur (as usual.) Nothing new on TT, I see. Back to my cat hideout! Izzy Matt 7: 13(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 3:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Dave Hansen speaks of Protestantism's excessive (my word) view of hell and damnation. I'm with you on this, Dave. I'd NOT align myself with the views I've seen expressed, in this regard, by DM, Jt, Kevin and, Izzy. The word 'eager' may not be strong enough. I was thinking of beliefs which 'control' our knowledge of almost anything. The changing of those beliefs carry with them such immense personal and social consequences that we often fear even to entertain the possibility that they are wrongly founded. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 14, 2005 01:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Jasc Paint Shop Photo Album 5 images] Lance Muir wrote: With a vengeance? DAVEH: Yes Lance, I meant that in the sense they will soon be flooding my inbox with more than I am capable of assimilating. I did not intend to suggest their posts would be vengeful. I think not. More likely praising God for the richness of the time they spent at a conference. I'll not steal any of their thunder. Tell me, Dave, were it to be the case that you are, in reality, quite wrong as to your understanding of God and His Gospel, what do you believe the consequences would be? (eternally). DAVEH: If I am wrong in my beliefs, then would not my perception of my consequences also be in question? I think one of the biggest problems (if that is the proper word to use) I have with Protestantism is their view of hell and damnation. I've said it before, but for some of you who are a bit new to TT, I'll give you a brief
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: The Observer UK News No getting stoned in new Bible]
good post, T(!) -- it hitsmyfunny bone in the tail :) G On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:36:51 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Kevin. Read the link and then tell Lance how many copies to order for you. Terry http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0%2C6903%2C1436392%2C00.html
Re: [TruthTalk] SEERS can't See
BLAINE: C'mon Kevin, you know what I meant. Your comment tells me you just don't want to discuss what the images of the bearded men could mean. As the article stated, there have been hundreds of such IMAGES found in Meso America. Your tactic of avoiding serious discussion tells the truth about you and your bashing of Mormonism--as long as you can ridicule and/or mock something, you are at your confident best. I am not going to go away, Kevin, you either need to explain these stone images away, or admit they mean what we all know they mean--there was a Caucasion race living in Meso-America, starting and ending in Book of Mormon times. The ball is in your court--your serve! Photo's found from 300AD? we thought George Eastman was ahead of his time! [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BLAINE: I just sent Keven some nice photos of stellae found in Meso-America, land of the BoM peoples, showing men with beards and caucasion features--archeological evidence Keven says does not exist. There have been many such photos discovered, dating from BoM times. Few, if any, dated after the destruction of the Nephite civilization around 300 AD, have been found, however. Kevin is good at digging up and/or manufacturing dirt to bash Mormonism with, so why has he not shown us the other side of the picture? Kevin, I am accusing you of GREEN, onesided journalism! -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] SEERS can't See
Kevin wrote: Photo's found from 300AD? we thought George Eastman was ahead of his time! BLAINE: C'mon Kevin, you know what I meant. Your comment tells me you just don't want to discuss what the images of the bearded men could mean. As the article stated, there have been hundreds of such IMAGES found in Meso America. Your tactic of avoiding serious discussion tells the truth about you and your bashing of Mormonism--as long as you can ridicule and/or mock something, you are at your confident best. I am not going to go away, Kevin, you either need to explain these stone images away, or admit they mean what we all know they mean--there was a Caucasion race living in Meso-America, starting and ending in Book of Mormon times. So far, just a wise-guy one-liner from Kevin! I am waiting, Kevin. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BLAINE: I just sent Keven some nice photos of stellae found in Meso-America, land of the BoM peoples, showing men with beards and caucasion features--archeological evidence Keven says does not exist. There have been many such photos discovered, dating from BoM times. Few, if any, dated after the destruction of the Nephite civilization around 300 AD, have been found, however. Kevin is good at digging up and/or manufacturing dirt to bash Mormonism with, so why has he not shown us the other side of the picture? Kevin, I am accusing you of GREEN, onesided journalism! -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] to Perry and Kevin
BLAINE: AHA! You could not resist the temptation to get back into the fray of things, Perry! I am laughing! You wanted to just stand off and let Kevin handle/bungle it all, right? Kevin has the virtue of always rising to the occasion, whether he has anything constructive to add or not. But welcome back, Perry, I was beginning to think you had lost your testimony of the truths of your false religion, made up of the traditions of men with an occasional scripture thrown in for credibility. Sort of like when Souuthern Baptist Bill Clinton tries to be photographed standing alongside George Bush Senior--for the sake of appearing credible! I have no pat answers for the many--too many--questions that you have posed. You need to narrow the subject matter down, and then I might have time to try to at least discuss intelligently what you seemingly want to know. I say seemingly, because I do have serious doubts you really want to know the truth about Mormonism.Just for example, why not focus on the bearded men facsimilies found in Meso-Amewrica? Neither you nor Kevin apparently want to discuss this highly meaningful archeological fact, one that obviously counters your own and Kevins contentions that there is not one shred of evidence supporting the BoM claims of a people of Hebrew/Caucasion ancestry having once resided in Meso-America. Actually, there are many such evidences. But so far, we can't seem to get up the nerve to discuss them, at least not objectively--all I get are put-downs and ridicule--which proves nothing. As far as apologizing for the prophet's mistakes, I don't see the need. He did what he did, as a man as well as a prophet. Only Jesus Christ was perfect, remember? Seems you even said that once yourself. I do not focus on the faults of men, I try to focus on the positive aspects of Mormonism, which are too many to list, or begin listing. I believe in constructive criticism, but do not believe in being just plain negative. I do try to bring the positives up on TT, but I seldom get any discussion. Why not, Perry? Afraid to get into a real discussion? One that has at least a semblance of objectivity to it? Your hide-your-head-in-the-sand approach only protects you from the truth, Perry--and Kevin, too, if you read this. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
