Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:45:23 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anthod denied the whole story. He maintained that he told Harris that he (Harris) was a victim of a fraud. In fact NO ONE at the time could decipher Egyptian. Blaine: Anthon, not Anthod, may have done as you say, but denial after the fact happens all the time--proves nothing, as usual for yourattack on an otherwise valid story.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] N.E.T.
I alreadyhave a definition for humanism. I was askingfor YOUR definition. JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:40:41 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] N.E.T. I already sent you the website in the humanist?s own definition. Do you need it again? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:50 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] N.E.T. Did you answer my question: what is yourdefinition of a humanist? I don't think so. Please avail yourself. JD -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:20:29 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] N.E.T. No, I believe I said you are a humanist. So why aren't you? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 4:30 PMTo: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] N.E.T. Get a grip JD check your facts - and cease from slander. I have not called you anything of the kind and I seriously doubt David has either since he is not into "name calling". If you keep this up then nothing you say will mean much. jt I think you are serious -- THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN, my dear !!! And I am serious. I am not a humanist -- just a little loose talk in view of the fact that I have been called a humanist, of late, by David and Judy -- or at least my thinking has been given that label.. I am verymuch NOT a humanist. Again, your concern is much appreciated and some surprising. Guess I shouldn't have been surprised. Have a good day, today. JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Glad to hear that it is working out forthe best. Keep us up to date. It wasn't the flue(?) -- do you know what the problem was (is)? A prayerful friend JD-Original Message-From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:12:24 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!) :-) Cheerio.Dave--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed .
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:55:37 EDT Blaine: Probably nothing that would satisfy your Doubting Thomas attitude, Perry. In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:34:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, I have heard that story, but that does not relate the event to the Isaiah passage. We still have two separate stories with no ties other than some common words. One from scripture, one anecdotal. Do you have anything that actually links them? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:28:12 EDT Blaine: Have you not read/heard the story of Martin Harris taking characters copied from the plates (by JS) to Professor Charles Anthon, and first being told they were true characters, but then being rebuffed by him when he was told a portion of the plates were sealed, and therefore could not be dellivered to him for translation? In a message dated 6/11/2005 8:18:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine wrote: The sealed portion has yet to be translated, but contains the vision of all. see Isaiah. 29:11 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Dave, sorry to hear about your ER trip, but glad to hear you are back home recuperating. Take it easy and don;t rush things. At our age we don't recuperate like we did hen we were 19! I can hear you now...ohh, I feel terrible...quick, get a laptop...I have to check in wth TT! :-) Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:12:24 -0700 DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Sorry to hear that Dave. Now you got us guessing. Blood poison? Spider bite? In any event I am praying for your recovery. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Lance Muir wrote: Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. == I tried hard, but could not find anything with which to argue. You are undoubtedlt correct in your above assumption. Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Charles Perry Locke wrote: Lance, what I also hear is that we all choose to believe what we want to believe, regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. However, I believe that when a grain of truth is revealed, but not immediately accepted, a cognitive dissonance is created and stored away that must eventually be resolved. This, I believe, is why people that, for example, become a Christian after denying the evidence for years, suddenly believe it ALL. The act of becoming a Christian resolves all of the small dissonant ideas they have stored away. So, I beleive that if Blaine ever decides to become a Christian, thus resolving all of the small dissonant facts he has stored away, he will be one of the greatest Christians ever. That is to say, when he takes all of the energy he expends defending a false religion, and turns it toward defending the truth, watch out! I speak from my own experience. I got to the point where I could no longer deny the truth. All of the lies I told myself about why I could not accept Christianity vanished literally overnight, and all of the truths I had learned through the years, but not accepted, all became a viable part of my belief. Perry = What a refreshing morning! Lance and Perry coming through with messages that make me stop and think. How different from the I am right, you are wrong stuff we have been choking down. Keep up the good work Guys (and ladies.) I was about to become a drop out, but I may hang around a while if this stuff keeps coming. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Perry, Since you are converting to LDS beliefs, and giving up your job as moderator, :) you are going to have to get with it regards believing via the influence of the Holy Ghost, rather than the hard, tangible evidence you have in the past gotten used to demanding. I for one rely on the evidence of praying in faith, then receiving the answer through the medium of the spirit--Spirit-of-God direct to my receiver spirit. But you do have to have your receiver in tune with the transmitters, Perry, otherwise this sort of evidence does not work. Just as when your radiois tuned off-station, or not working at all, or out of range of the signal, all you will recieve is static. I am afraid in the past that is all you have been receiving, for whatever reason--so you might consider getting a renewing of the spiritual receiver, is all I am saying. New spirits are extremely costly, they tell me, so that is obviously not an option. Take Care, Perry, and good luck with your newly acquired religion!! And, Congratulations on becoming One With The Saints!!! Blainerb (not baline, please!!) n a message dated 6/13/2005 6:55:55 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote?Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
DAVEH: Thanx Perry. Hitting TT is about the first thing I did this morning after taking my meds!:-) Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, sorry to hear about your ER trip, but glad to hear you are back home recuperating. Take it easy and don;t rush things. At our age we don't recuperate like we did hen we were 19! I can hear you now...ohh, I feel terrible...quick, get a laptop...I have to check in wth TT! :-) Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:12:24 -0700 DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally. Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry, AE6GQ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:49:11 EDT Perry, Since you are converting to LDS beliefs, and giving up your job as moderator, :) you are going to have to get with it regards believing via the influence of the Holy Ghost, rather than the hard, tangible evidence you have in the past gotten used to demanding. I for one rely on the evidence of praying in faith, then receiving the answer through the medium of the spirit--Spirit-of-God direct to my receiver spirit. But you do have to have your receiver in tune with the transmitters, Perry, otherwise this sort of evidence does not work. Just as when your radio is tuned off-station, or not working at all, or out of range of the signal, all you will recieve is static. I am afraid in the past that is all you have been receiving, for whatever reason--so you might consider getting a renewing of the spiritual receiver, is all I am saying. New spirits are extremely costly, they tell me, so that is obviously not an option. Take Care, Perry, and good luck with your newly acquired religion!! And, Congratulations on becoming One With The Saints!!! Blainerb (not baline, please!!) n a message dated 6/13/2005 6:55:55 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
DAVEH: Thanx Terry. It was a strep infection that entered an old wound at my ankle. Fortunately it had stayed on the surface, and had not got to the bone. Terry Clifton wrote: Sorry to hear that Dave. Now you got us guessing. Blood poison? Spider bite? In any event I am praying for your recovery. Terry Dave Hansen wrote: DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Dave, I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Was it a spider bite or what? If it was from kicking cats we have living proof of God's judgement. :-) Get well soon, Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:12 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Vacation
Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Lance, we already knew that everyone believes something. What a news flash. The question on TT is Do you know the real Jesus? (According to HIM.) If you do you are a capitalized Believer. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:05 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' . B
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
To:CPL-Have you ever SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED that Blaine's 'belief' might be quite true and, that your's might be quite false? I'm not attempting to be funny! Why not address my post concerning 'belief systems'.? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally. Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry, AE6GQ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:49:11 EDT Perry, Since you are converting to LDS beliefs, and giving up your job as moderator, :) you are going to have to get with it regards believing via the influence of the Holy Ghost, rather than the hard, tangible evidence you have in the past gotten used to demanding. I for one rely on the evidence of praying in faith, then receiving the answer through the medium of the spirit--Spirit-of-God direct to my receiver spirit. But you do have to have your receiver in tune with the transmitters, Perry, otherwise this sort of evidence does not work. Just as when your radio is tuned off-station, or not working at all, or out of range of the signal, all you will recieve is static. I am afraid in the past that is all you have been receiving, for whatever reason--so you might consider getting a renewing of the spiritual receiver, is all I am saying. New spirits are extremely costly, they tell me, so that is obviously not an option. Take Care, Perry, and good luck with your newly acquired religion!! And, Congratulations on becoming One With The Saints!!! Blainerb (not baline, please!!) n a message dated 6/13/2005 6:55:55 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Good thoughts, Perry. Thanks. Iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 7:20 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Lance, what I also hear is that we all choose to believe what we want to believe, regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. However, I believe that when a grain of truth is revealed, but not immediately accepted, a cognitive dissonance is created and stored away that must eventually be resolved. This, I believe, is why people that, for example, become a Christian after denying the evidence for years, suddenly believe it ALL. The act of becoming a Christian resolves all of the small dissonant ideas they have stored away. So, I beleive that if Blaine ever decides to become a Christian, thus resolving all of the small dissonant facts he has stored away, he will be one of the greatest Christians ever. That is to say, when he takes all of the energy he expends defending a false religion, and turns it toward defending the truth, watch out! I speak from my own experience. I got to the point where I could no longer deny the truth. All of the lies I told myself about why I could not accept Christianity vanished literally overnight, and all of the truths I had learned through the years, but not accepted, all became a viable part of my belief. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:05:42 -0400 Even if, if, if, if you were absolutely correct, CPL, you know that he is NOT prepared to acknowledge this. Please read my post on 'belief'. You are as likely to be posting as a Mormon as he (Blaine) is likely to be posting as what you deem to be a 'christian'. If there is present on TT a six day young earth creationist, can you or anyone on TT imagine them forfeiting this 'belief' in order to believe 'teleological evolutionism'? Impossible? No! Likely? Snowball's chance... - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 08:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:55:37 EDT Blaine: Probably nothing that would satisfy your Doubting Thomas attitude, Perry. In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:34:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, I have heard that story, but that does not relate the event to the Isaiah passage. We still have two separate stories with no ties other than some common words. One from scripture, one anecdotal. Do you have anything that actually links them? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:28:12 EDT Blaine: Have you not read/heard the story of Martin Harris taking characters copied from the plates (by JS) to Professor Charles Anthon, and first being told they were true characters, but then being rebuffed by him when he was told a portion of the plates were sealed, and therefore could not be dellivered to him for translation? In a message dated 6/11/2005 8:18:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine wrote: The sealed portion has yet to be translated, but contains the vision of all. see Isaiah. 29:11 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
And visa-versa. Which is why those who defend continued sin in the life of a Believer will certainly continue to sin. And those who Believe they are free from sin, dont. Izzy Lance Muir wrote: Everyone's life exemplifies their belief.
RE: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
So smart of you, DaveH! I think the problem with JD is that he forgets his medication before getting on TT. :-) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:11 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah DAVEH: Thanx Perry. Hitting TT is about the first thing I did this morning after taking my meds!:-) Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, sorry to hear about your ER trip, but glad to hear you are back home recuperating. Take it easy and don;t rush things. At our age we don't recuperate like we did hen we were 19! I can hear you now...ohh, I feel terrible...quick, get a laptop...I have to check in wth TT! :-) Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:12:24 -0700 DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation
Oh, yessomebody has to do it while you evangelize the beaches!!! J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine Miller Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:37 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Vacation Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Well, I thought I had addressed it, but apparently not. Let me try again. I have in times past examined other belief systems in an attempt to find the truth. Some topically, some more seriously. I have picked a standard for truth that I believe to be the true Word of God, and by that standard judge all things. If I am wrong, I guess I will go down with the ship, and may indeed pay for the errors of my choice. I have the promise of Christ that if I believe, then I am saved. If there is no Christ, then there is no salvation, and any other system is moot anyway. Once I found the truth, I had no reason to explore any of the belief systems I previously examined. Their falseness stood out quite starkly. I bagan to study mormonism because once I became a Christian I heard that mormonism was a cult. Rather than just take that as fact I began to look into the mormon system rather deeply and, guess what! It is a cult. It falls in the face of scripture, the standard I have chosen by which to judge al things. So, to answer your question directly, I have never seriously considered that Blaine's 'belief' might be quite true and my 'belief' might be quite false. That would be impossible for me to do given the faith I have in Christ, and what I know about mormonism. Raymond felt otherwise. I believe he said he used to be a Christian, but became a mormon. My guess is that he was looking for something more than merely the Christ. He evidently found it, and now lies in the same shallow as Blaine. I do at times find some small facet of Mormonism that causes me to step back and take a second look at that fact...but even the mormons will tell you...every false religion has some truth mixed in with their lies. BTW, I took your advice and got the Midnight Cry tape and viewed it. A perfect example of a difference of 'belief'. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:43:53 -0400 To:CPL-Have you ever SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED that Blaine's 'belief' might be quite true and, that your's might be quite false? I'm not attempting to be funny! Why not address my post concerning 'belief systems'.? - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally. Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry, AE6GQ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:49:11 EDT Perry, Since you are converting to LDS beliefs, and giving up your job as moderator, :) you are going to have to get with it regards believing via the influence of the Holy Ghost, rather than the hard, tangible evidence you have in the past gotten used to demanding. I for one rely on the evidence of praying in faith, then receiving the answer through the medium of the spirit--Spirit-of-God direct to my receiver spirit. But you do have to have your receiver in tune with the transmitters, Perry, otherwise this sort of evidence does not work. Just as when your radio is tuned off-station, or not working at all, or out of range of the signal, all you will recieve is static. I am afraid in the past that is all you have been receiving, for whatever reason--so you might consider getting a renewing of the spiritual receiver, is all I am saying. New spirits are extremely costly, they tell me, so that is obviously not an option. Take Care, Perry, and good luck with your newly acquired religion!! And, Congratulations on becoming One With The Saints!!! Blainerb (not baline, please!!) n a message dated 6/13/2005 6:55:55 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Iz:I do understand that this is NOT a news flash. But, you apparently failed to apprehend my meaning whereas Terry did not. What is it that enables your 'belief' that YOUR Jesus IS the real Jesus? Perhaps Blaine's Jesus is the 'real one.' Certainly he, and millions of Mormons believe this to be the case. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:44 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Lance, we already knew that everyone believes something. What a news flash. The question on TT is Do you know the real Jesus? (According to HIM.) If you do you are a capitalized Believer. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:05 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' .B
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
ShieldsFamily wrote: Dave, I'm sorry to hear of your illness. Was it a spider bite or what? DAVEH: Thanx Izzy...If it wasn't through an old skeeter bite gone bad, it was probably one of our two cats that scratched me while I was misusing your name! ;-) If it was from kicking cats we have living proof of God's judgement. :-) Get well soon, Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 1:12 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
DAVEH: Knowing the nature of TT, it behooved me to take a double dose of pain killer before reading the TT posts. ShieldsFamily wrote: So smart of you, DaveH! I think the problem with JD is that he forgets his medication before getting on TT. :-) Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:11 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah DAVEH: Thanx Perry. Hitting TT is about the first thing I did this morning after taking my meds!:-) Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, sorry to hear about your ER trip, but glad to hear you are back home recuperating. Take it easy and don;t rush things. At our age we don't recuperate like we did hen we were 19! I can hear you now..."ohh, I feel terrible...quick, get a laptop...I have to check in wth TT!" :-) Perry From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:12:24 -0700 DAVEH: Hi all.Sorry to be gone for a bit last week. I became rather ill on Monday night, and by Thursday ended up in the ER. Due to some other family complications, they allowed me to come home today. I'm too weak to be climbing the stairs to access my main computer, but my son was able to get one of our old laptops configured for wireless, and hence I'm back onlinesorta. I don't (yet anyway) have access to my old files, so if anybody sent me questions, ask them again or you'll just have to wait until I can wade through my backlog of mail that is awaiting my return upstairs! Anyway, for those who are curious to the details, the short version is that because I was unable to get a flu shot last winter, I assumed I had a bad case of the flu due to wild temperature fluctuations and getting the shakes and chills. Assuming a lot of bed rest would allow it to run its course, that's pretty much all I did until Thursday when I discovered my leg had a lot of red spidery looking veins heading from my ankle to my knee. A half hour later I was in ER getting antibiotics flowing into me, and a battery of tests that ultimately showed our worst fears were not realized, and I've probably get to keep the leg I use to kick cats through the uprights. (I assume that will quell any sympathetic thoughts you might have, Izzy!):-) Cheerio.Dave -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Like Perry, I only rely on the Bible to know Jesus. The mormons have to have extra-biblical evidence for their construct of Jesus. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:32 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Iz:I do understand that this is NOT a news flash. But, you apparently failed to apprehend my meaning whereas Terry did not. What is it that enables your 'belief' that YOUR Jesus IS the real Jesus? Perhaps Blaine's Jesus is the 'real one.' Certainly he, and millions of Mormons believe this to be the case. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:44 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Lance, we already knew that everyone believes something. What a news flash. The question on TT is Do you know the real Jesus? (According to HIM.) If you do you are a capitalized Believer. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:05 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' . B
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine: Well, that's where the problem is, Perry. You see, there is real evidence. You are just not in tune with the spiritual channel that deals with this evidence. I can see that plainly. You are looking for an out, and anything you find, small or large,is good enough--as long as it furnishes you with a"reason" to remain the skeptic. I try to give you straws of hope and light, but you for some reason never glom onto them the way you do the anti-stuff.You apparently don't even question the anti-stuff, at least not as assiduously as when you are looking at official Mormon material. It tells you what your itching ears want to hear, so . . . end of further investigation. Hmmm, the spirit tells me that it will not always strive with man . . . Blaine In a message dated 6/13/2005 8:30:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally.Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote?Perry, AE6GQ
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine, I will assume that your answer is no, that you are not willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote. From your answer, then I will also assume that when you have no evidence linking a Biblical text to a mormon anecdote or doctrine, that you receive a spiritual message telling you it is connected. Is that right? DaveH, is that the same for you? Do you also determine if a Biblical passage and a mormon anecdote or doctrine are linked by receiving a spiritual message, or do you look for actual tangible textual or historical evidence? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:19:42 EDT Blaine: Well, that's where the problem is, Perry. You see, there is real evidence. You are just not in tune with the spiritual channel that deals with this evidence. I can see that plainly. You are looking for an out, and anything you find, small or large, is good enough--as long as it furnishes you with a reason to remain the skeptic. I try to give you straws of hope and light, but you for some reason never glom onto them the way you do the anti-stuff. You apparently don't even question the anti-stuff, at least not as assiduously as when you are looking at official Mormon material. It tells you what your itching ears want to hear, so . . . end of further investigation. Hmmm, the spirit tells me that it will not always strive with man . . . Blaine In a message dated 6/13/2005 8:30:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally. Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry, AE6GQ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine, in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 117:12 JS wrote the following prophecy: And again, I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord. Do you know who Oliver Granger is? If not, please ask your spritual source, because I have been wanting to know this for a long time. Let me know what he/she says. Thanks, Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:19:42 EDT Blaine: Well, that's where the problem is, Perry. You see, there is real evidence. You are just not in tune with the spiritual channel that deals with this evidence. I can see that plainly. You are looking for an out, and anything you find, small or large, is good enough--as long as it furnishes you with a reason to remain the skeptic. I try to give you straws of hope and light, but you for some reason never glom onto them the way you do the anti-stuff. You apparently don't even question the anti-stuff, at least not as assiduously as when you are looking at official Mormon material. It tells you what your itching ears want to hear, so . . . end of further investigation. Hmmm, the spirit tells me that it will not always strive with man . . . Blaine In a message dated 6/13/2005 8:30:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, sorry about the typo...sometimes I transpose letters unintentionally. Transmitters, receivers, whatever. Are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the Isaiah scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry, AE6GQ -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Vacation
Will do Christine, Hope yourfamily vacation is a blessing to each one of you, judyt On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Christine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
And..IFF the so-called 'extra-biblical' evidence is indeed a true revelation from God..I'm sure you note that your 'framing' of your 'truth' is entirely self-serving.(as is his) Thus, one might say, it's a draw. You might be believing in the 'real' Jesus or... - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 11:55 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Like Perry, I only rely on the Bible to know Jesus. The mormons have to have extra-biblical evidence for their construct of Jesus. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:32 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Iz:I do understand that this is NOT a news flash. But, you apparently failed to apprehend my meaning whereas Terry did not. What is it that enables your 'belief' that YOUR Jesus IS the real Jesus? Perhaps Blaine's Jesus is the 'real one.' Certainly he, and millions of Mormons believe this to be the case. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:44 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Lance, we already knew that everyone believes something. What a news flash. The question on TT is Do you know the real Jesus? (According to HIM.) If you do you are a capitalized Believer. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:05 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' .B
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
The problem is that the mormon extra-biblical evidence is in clear conflict with the Biblical evidence. So they are wrong. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 10:54 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') And..IFF the so-called 'extra-biblical' evidence is indeed a true revelation from God..I'm sure you note that your 'framing' of your 'truth' is entirely self-serving.(as is his) Thus, one might say, it's a draw. You might be believing in the 'real' Jesus or... - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 11:55 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Like Perry, I only rely on the Bible to know Jesus. The mormons have to have extra-biblical evidence for their construct of Jesus. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:32 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Iz:I do understand that this is NOT a news flash. But, you apparently failed to apprehend my meaning whereas Terry did not. What is it that enables your 'belief' that YOUR Jesus IS the real Jesus? Perhaps Blaine's Jesus is the 'real one.' Certainly he, and millions of Mormons believe this to be the case. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 10:44 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Lance, we already knew that everyone believes something. What a news flash. The question on TT is Do you know the real Jesus? (According to HIM.) If you do you are a capitalized Believer. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:05 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' . B
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Sure everyone is a 'believer' - the questionthen is what are they believing?. Do they believe and follow the truth or the lie? judyt Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' .B
Re: [TruthTalk] Vacation
Don't forget the poor and the orphans and widows !!! -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:51:37 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation Oh, yes?somebody has to do it while you evangelize the beaches!!! J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine MillerSent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:37 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Vacation Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
I would think that we all choose to believe whatever based upon our view of the credibility of the "truth source" closest to us in terms of time and space. I mean,if Blaine was "born a Mormon,' his first source of "truth" would be his parents. Who's he going to believe -- his parents or some guy standing cross the street waving underwear.And, by the time he gets to a free thinking age, he already has such a systematize faith that little will prevail against it. THAT'S NORMAL. Blaine may or not believe this -- but THANK GOD WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT. JD-Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke cpl2602@hotmail.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:20:26 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Lance, what I also hear is that we all choose to believe what we want to believe, regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. However, I believe that when a grain of truth is revealed, but not immediately accepted, a cognitive dissonance is created and stored away that must eventually be resolved. This, I believe, is why people that, for example, become a Christian after denying the evidence for years, suddenly believe it ALL. The act of becoming a Christian resolves all of the small dissonant ideas they have stored away. So, I beleive that if Blaine ever decides to become a Christian, thus resolving all of the small dissonant facts he has stored away, he will be one of the greatest Christians ever. That is to say, when he takes all of the energy he expends defending a false religion, and turns it toward defending the truth, watch out! I speak from my own experience. I got to the point where I could no longer deny the truth. All of the lies I told myself about why I could not accept Christianity vanished literally overnight, and all of the truths I had learned through the years, but not accepted, all became a viable part of my belief.PerryFrom: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill CumorahDate: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:05:42 -0400Even if, if, if, if you were absolutely correct, CPL, you know that he isNOT prepared to acknowledge this. Please read my post on 'belief'. You areas likely to be posting as a Mormon as he (Blaine) is likely to be posting t;as what you deem to be a 'christian'.If there is present on TT a six day young earth creationist, can you oranyone on TT imagine them forfeiting this 'belief' in order to believe'teleological evolutionism'? Impossible? No! Likely? Snowball's chance...- Original Message -From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: June 13, 2005 08:55Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, evenThomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and letme evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:55:37 EDT sp;Blaine: Probably nothing that would satisfy your "Doubting Thomas" attitude, Perry.In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:34:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Yes, I have heard that story, but that does not relate the event to the Isaiah passage. We still have two separate stories with no ties otherthan some common words. One from scripture, one anecdotal. Do you haveanything that actually links them?Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:28:12 EDTBlaine: Have you not read/heard the story of Martin Harris taking characters copied from the plates (by JS) to Professor CharlesAnthon, and first being told they were true characters, but then being rebuffed by him when he was told a portion of the plates were sealed, and therefore could not be dellivered to him for translation? In a message dated 6/11/2005 8:18:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine wrote: The sealed portion has yet to be translated, but contains "the vision of all." see Isaiah. 29:11 -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b')
Maybe we could look at it this way: there is "truth" that is critically impoartant and truth that is not.The fact that I have red hair is not an important truth --- and growing less important with the passing of time, I might add. But how I treat my wife is another matter, entirely. At an accident scene, witnesses may disagree upon the true events of the accident -- that does not mean there was no accident !! If someone calls me on the phone and asks for "Papa John," I could care less if their description of me is accurate or not. I do not understand why we have to think correctly about the who of God (His nature, His trinity, His wrath and so on) . Just because we have some of this wrong does not mean that we are dealing with a differenct God, does it ? If not , why not. God does not exist as figment of my thinking and understanding. Let's compare Blaine and - ahhh -- alright ME We think very differently when it comes to religion. Does that mean that we are serving two different Gods? There is rational, conceptual truth. We are not close on that one. But what has been the effect of this Jesus each of us claim to serve? Are we better people because of this influence? Have each of us grown in a spiritual sense. Is there no righteous progress in one -- only in the other? Some truth matters -- some simply keeps us apart. JD -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:15:20 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone, including on TT, a 'believer' (small 'b') Sure everyone is a 'believer' - the questionthen is what are they believing?. Do they believe and follow the truth or the lie? judyt Once you understand 'belief', you come to understand that everyone is (a 'believer') Everyone's life exemplifies their belief. Belief is so fundamental that little genuine engagement takes place between polarized 'belief-systems'. Examples: (1)CPL stating that he is converting to LDS beliefs and, understands that he has to forfeit his position as moderator but, would like to remain part of the 'conversation'.(2) Izzie stating that she voted incorrectly in the last Presidential election. She now recognizes that she should have voted for the communist candidate. Someone asked recently why we've 'seen' so little of David and Christine lately. IMO they are either doing something more profitable than hurling insults or, they are 'propigating their distinctive belief system on an alternate location on the www. Anyone who has read me over time is able to see the mediocre level at which I think. However, I can see that no genuine exchanges have taken place hereon in some time.Exceptions which prove the rule:The Bishop of California (JD) and The Bishop(ess?) of Virginia (Jt). They really do try. I'm expecting to be 'blown off' for my little rant but, would be delighted to have someone say something regarding 'belief' .B
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
John, How far NOT RIGHT is too far NOT RIGHT? It seems that here is a continuum of belief in people, ranging from the totally unbelieving atheist to the very devout believing Chrsitian. Or on another scale, from the Satanist to the Christian. Do you think that ALL will be saved regardless of how NOT RIGHT they are? Where will the line be drawn? There is no almost saved, or saved a little, or saved more than me...there is only saved and unsaved. What will detrmine where the line will be drawn? Can you know on which side of the line you fall? Can you be deceived into thinking that you are on the RIGHT side of the line when, indeed, you are on the NOT RIGHT side of the line? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:21:39 -0400 I would think that we all choose to believe whatever based upon our view of the credibility of the truth source closest to us in terms of time and space.I mean, if Blaine was born a Mormon,' his first source of truth would be his parents. Who's he going to believe -- his parents or some guy standing cross the street waving underwear. And, by the time he gets to a free thinking age, he already has such a systematize faith that little will prevail against it. THAT'S NORMAL.Blaine may or not believe this -- but THANK GOD WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT. JD -Original Message- From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:20:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Lance, what I also hear is that we all choose to believe what we want to believe, regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. However, I believe that when a grain of truth is revealed, but not immediately accepted, a cognitive dissonance is created and stored away that must eventually be resolved. This, I believe, is why people that, for example, become a Christian after denying the evidence for years, suddenly believe it ALL. The act of becoming a Christian resolves all of the small dissonant ideas they have stored away. So, I beleive that if Blaine ever decides to become a Christian, thus resolving all of the small dissonant facts he has stored away, he will be one of the greatest Christians ever. That is to say, when he takes all of the energy he expends defending a false religion, and turns it toward defending the truth, watch out! I speak from my own experience. I got to the point where I could no longer deny the truth. All of the lies I told myself about why I could not accept Christianity vanished literally overnight, and all of the truths I had learned through the years, but not accepted, all became a viable part of my belief. Perry From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:05:42 -0400 Even if, if, if, if you were absolutely correct, CPL, you know that he is NOT prepared to acknowledge this. Please read my post on 'belief'. You are as likely to be posting as a Mormon as he (Blaine) is likely to be posting as what you deem to be a 'christian'. If there is present on TT a six day young earth creationist, can you or anyone on TT imagine them forfeiting this 'belief' in order to believe 'teleological evolutionism'? Impossible? No! Likely? Snowball's chance... - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 08:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown the evidence, even Thomas believed. We will only know for sure when you present the facts and let me evaluate them. The point is that if there is no real evidence, then the scripture is most likely not related to the anecdote at all. Blaine, are you willing to admit that since there is no real evidence, then it is possible that the scripture is not related to the anecdote? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:55:37 EDT Blaine: Probably nothing that would satisfy your Doubting Thomas attitude, Perry. In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:34:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, I have heard that story, but that does not relate the event to the Isaiah passage. We still have two separate stories with no ties other than some common words. One from scripture, one anecdotal. Do you have anything that actually links them? Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:28:12 EDT
RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation
Im sure you never do anything other than that yourself, JD. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:14 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Vacation Don't forget the poor and the orphans and widows !!! -Original Message- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:51:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation Oh, yes?somebody has to do it while you evangelize the beaches!!! J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine Miller Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:37 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Vacation Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine: Oliver Granger got his name in the DC, and for that reason alone, he will fulfill the prophecy. Do you see my name in the DC? Nope. Do you see Dave's name in the DC? Nope. With twelve going on thirteen million readers of the DC, surely many of them will note this prophecy, especially since you AND your fellow street preachers have made such an effort to point his low profile out. By now, I imagine I have heard or read his name at least a dozen times. At the present rate, Oliver Granger cannot help but become almost as famous as Joseph Smith andeasily as famous asBrigham Young. In a message dated 6/13/2005 10:42:57 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 117:12 JS wrote the following "prophecy":"And again, I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."Do you know who Oliver Granger is? If not, please ask your spritual source, because I have been wanting to know this for a long time. Let me know what he/she says.Thanks,Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Dead to Sin
yep.. ..areason Christians are not 'perfect'emerges in Petrine thought (1., ch5)whereit's exhorted 'humble yourselves' (plural--no exceptions) to Peter, 'conceit' is chronic chronic conceit occurs in Christ as Petrine thought supposes,germane to'humble yourselves' humility--confronting chronic conceit 'under the mighty hand of God'--is elemental to'suffering' (to Peter alsoin 1, ch.5) Petrine humility and suffering todayoccur in eschatological tension only withJC's life style--and, the poet, below,BobDylan, is conscious of JC among us, JC the absolute prerequisite (for) humility also, for Dylan,'suffering' with Peter and hisadherants, in Christ,is notEvil alongthe mentalaxisof Good,thus Dylan (correspondingly)defiesphilosophical dualism, which, in these lyrics,he sees as the bedrock of chronic conceit yep, like Peter, he 'sees' that.. On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:08:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..humility is the blessing we receive from God's [constant] gracious intervention. == There's a whole lot of people suffering tonightFrom the _disease of conceit_.Whole lot of people struggling tonightFrom the disease of conceit.Comes right down the highway,Straight down the line,Rips into your sensesThrough your body and your mind.Nothing about it that's sweet,The disease of conceit. There's a whole lot of hearts breaking tonightFrom the disease of conceit,Whole lot of hearts shaking tonightFrom the disease of conceit.Steps into your room,Eats your soul,Over your sensesYou have no control.Ain't nothing too discreetAbout of disease of conceit. There's a whole lot of people dying tonightFrom the disease of conceit,Whole lot of people crying tonightFrom the disease of conceit,Comes right out of nowhereAnd you're down for the countFrom the outside world,The pressure will mount,Turn you into a piece of meat,The disease of conceit. Conceit is a diseaseThat the doctors got no cureThey've done a lot of research on itBut what it is, they're still not sure There's a whole lot of people in trouble tonightFrom the disease of conceit,Whole lot of people seeing double tonightFrom the disease of conceit,Give ya delusions of grandeurAnd a evil eyeGive you idea thatYou're too good to die,Then they bury you from your head to your feetFrom the disease of conceit.Bob Dylan ::Copyright © 1989 Special Rider Music
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
In a message dated 6/13/2005 2:09:44 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I
would think that we all choose to believe whatever based upon our view of
the credibility of the "truth source" closest to us in terms of time
and space. I mean, if Blaine was "born a
Mormon,' his first source of "truth" would be his parents.
Who's he going to believe -- his parents or some guy
standing cross the street waving underwear. And, by the time
he gets to a free thinking age, he already has such a
systematize faith that little will prevail against it.
THAT'S NORMAL. Blaine may or not believe this -- but
THANK GOD WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE
RIGHT.JD
Blaine: Good, JD. I agree parents are critical in what
children end up believing. I am very fortunate to have had good advice and
guidance from my mom and dad. My grandpa was also very
influential, mostly by his example. He served two missions (LDS) to
Norway, and another one to Spokane, Washington. He recorded many
miraculous healings, casting out of devils, etc. in his writings. He was a
Judge in regular life, and often required those he saw in court to go to church,
the denomination being left to them. He was always in favor of religious
training, regardless of the belief system. Any belief that advocates
Christian values, he felt, was better than the value systems that got people
into trouble with the law. Nevertheless, he lived and died by the LDS
doctrines.
Re: [TruthTalk] Vacation
This type of response issurprisingly typical for the Fundies of this forum .For the record (but who actually reads the record), I have made it clear that I have not done enough regarding the "pouring myself out for the hungry .." I see no advantage in saying over and over again "yeah, but you do it too." When I am wrong, in most cases (no one is perfect) I say "understood," swallow hard, and recommit to a different approach. Remember Matt 7:1ff. JD ---0-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:19:13 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation I?m sure you never do anything other than that yourself, JD. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:14 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Vacation Don't forget the poor and the orphans and widows !!! -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:51:37 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation Oh, yes?somebody has to do it while you evangelize the beaches!!! J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christine MillerSent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:37 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Vacation Well folks, I'll see you next Monday! The family's going on a beach vacation for a week. Judy, Izzy, Kevin -- hold the fortdown while I'm gone. :-) Blessings! Discover Yahoo!Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing more. Check it out!
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
I don't follow along with this thread as much as I should. Is Oliver Granger a real character or is hesomeone who will receive the name "Oliver Granger?" I am not sure (emphasis on "not sure") that youhave answered Perry's question. Perhaps you did -- and the answer is bound to the questions I raise as I preview your response. JD-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:34:29 EDTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Blaine: Oliver Granger got his name in the DC, and for that reason alone, he will fulfill the prophecy. Do you see my name in the DC? Nope. Do you see Dave's name in the DC? Nope. With twelve going on thirteen million readers of the DC, surely many of them will note this prophecy, especially since you AND your fellow street preachers have made such an effort to point his low profile out. By now, I imagine I have heard or read his name at least a dozen times. At the present rate, Oliver Granger cannot help but become almost as famous as Joseph Smith andeasily as famous asBrigham Young. In a message dated 6/13/2005 10:42:57 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 117:12 JS wrote the following "prophecy":"And again, I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord."Do you know who Oliver Granger is? If not, please ask your spritual source, because I have been wanting to know this for a long time. Let me know what he/she says.Thanks,Perry
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
At some point on that continuumis a line that separatesgrowth from regression.At each end of this continuum are two very different characters: one is serving self apart from God, knowingly and deliberately (full blown rebellion) His end is destruction (self destruction) He is "dead already." At the other end the image of Christ, Each is at the END of this continuum. Each is tied to the other, in scriptures (and you know what scripture I am going to quote) i.e. Romans 7:25 and associated scripture and Eph 4: 20-24.
Almost sounds as though I am on my way to answering your question, doesn't it? Well, I know this "continuum" exists. I know that unless and until I am "fully rebellious," the good that God would do is present in my life to some degree. I know, also, that unless and until I have fully achieved the very image of Christ, that which does me personal harm is, likewise, present to some degree.
I believe that I do not know the spiritual state ("saved" or "lost") of any other person other than myself, and that knowledge (my personal destiny) is an act of faith.
In short -- I don't know.
JD
-Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke cpl2602@hotmail.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:09:18 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
John, How far "NOT RIGHT" is too far "NOT RIGHT"? It seems that here is a continuum of belief in people, ranging from the totally unbelieving atheist to the very devout believing Chrsitian. Or on another scale, from the Satanist to the Christian. Do you think that ALL will be saved regardless of how "NOT RIGHT" they are? Where will the line be drawn? There is no "almost saved", or "saved a little", or "saved more than me"...there is only saved and unsaved. What will detrmine where the line will be drawn? Can you know on which side of the line you fall? Can you be deceived into thinking that you are on the "RIGHT" side of the line when, indeed, you are on the "NOT RIGHT" side of the line?PerryFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: <
A href="">TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill CumorahDate: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:21:39 -0400I would think that we all choose to believe whatever based upon our view of the credibility of the "truth source" closest to us in terms of time and space. I mean, if Blaine was "born a Mormon,' his first source of "truth" would be his parents. Who's he going to believe -- his parents or some guy standing cross the street waving underwear. And, by the time he gets to a free thinking age, he already has such a systematize faith that little will prevail against it. THAT'S NORMAL. Blaine may or not believe this -- but THANK GOD WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT.JD&
gt;-Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:20:26 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill CumorahLance, what I also hear is that we all choose to believe what we want to believe, regardless of the facts, or lack thereof. However, I believe that when a grain of truth is revealed, but not immediately accepted, a cognitive dissonance is created and stored away that must eventually be resolved. This, I believe, is why people that, for example, become a Christian after denying the evidence for years, suddenly believe it ALL. The act of becoming a Christian resolves all of the small dissonant ideas they have stored away. So, I beleive that if Blaine ever decides to becom
e a Christian, thus resolving all of the small dissonant facts he has stored away, he will be one of the greatest Christians ever. That is to say, when he takes all of the energy he expends defending a false religion, and turns it toward defending the truth, watch out! I speak from my own experience. I got to the point where I could no longer deny the truth. All of the lies I told myself about why I could not accept Christianity vanished literally overnight, and all of the truths I had learned through the years, but not accepted, all became a viable part of my belief.Perry From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk
] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:05:42 -0400 Even if, if, if, if you were absolutely correct, CPL, you know that he is NOT prepared to acknowledge this. Please read my post on 'belief'. You are as likely to be posting as a Mormon as he (Blaine) is likely to be posting as what you deem to be a 'christian'. If there is present on TT a six day young earth creationist, can you or anyone on TT imagine them forfeiting this 'belief' in order to believe 'teleological evolutionism'? Impossible? No! Likely? Snowball's chance... - Original Me
ssage - From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 13, 2005 08:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Baline, Sometimes it is right to doubt. But, when shown
RE: [TruthTalk] Vacation
anyone into problem solving? On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:48:28 -0500 "ShieldsFamily": [the problem with going on vacation:] ..[acc to Izzy] the Millers[are] going to the beach instead of remembering the orphans and widows. || [the solution to going on vacation:] JD writes: "..(no one is perfect) I..recommit [myself] to a different approach." ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Blaine, Thanks for your spiritual insight into this prophecy. So, if I understand this correctly, the REAL meaning of this prophecy is that Oliver Granger's name would be remembered from generation to generation by virtue of the fact that detractors of mormonism would point it out as false prophecy, thus fulfilling the prophecy? In what way is that in sacred rememberance? Well, Blaine, I guess I have to agree with you on a point you made earlier. I definitely am not tuned in to your spiritual frequency. BTW, I am proud to be identified with the street preachers, although I am not one and do not deserve that title. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:34:29 EDT Blaine: Oliver Granger got his name in the DC, and for that reason alone, he will fulfill the prophecy. Do you see my name in the DC? Nope. Do you see Dave's name in the DC? Nope. With twelve going on thirteen million readers of the DC, surely many of them will note this prophecy, especially since you AND your fellow street preachers have made such an effort to point his low profile out. By now, I imagine I have heard or read his name at least a dozen times. At the present rate, Oliver Granger cannot help but become almost as famous as Joseph Smith and easily as famous as Brigham Young. In a message dated 6/13/2005 10:42:57 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine, in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 117:12 JS wrote the following prophecy: And again, I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger; behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord. Do you know who Oliver Granger is? If not, please ask your spritual source, because I have been wanting to know this for a long time. Let me know what he/she says. Thanks, Perry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah
Do you think you Grandfather is a god now, with spirit wives, and possible the pitter-patter of little spirit feet? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:15:05 EDT In a message dated 6/13/2005 2:09:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would think that we all choose to believe whatever based upon our view of the credibility of the truth source closest to us in terms of time and space.I mean, if Blaine was born a Mormon,' his first source of truth would be his parents. Who's he going to believe -- his parents or some guy standing cross the street waving underwear. And, by the time he gets to a free thinking age, he already has such a systematize faith that little will prevail against it.THAT'S NORMAL.Blaine may or not believe this -- but THANK GOD WE DO NOT HAVE TO BE RIGHT. JD Blaine: Good, JD. I agree parents are critical in what children end up believing. I am very fortunate to have had good advice and guidance from my mom and dad.My grandpa was also very influential, mostly by his example. He served two missions (LDS) to Norway, and another one to Spokane, Washington. He recorded many miraculous healings, casting out of devils, etc. in his writings. He was a Judge in regular life, and often required those he saw in court to go to church, the denomination being left to them. He was always in favor of religious training, regardless of the belief system. Any belief that advocates Christian values, he felt, was better than the value systems that got people into trouble with the law. Nevertheless, he lived and died by the LDS doctrines. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
