Re: [TruthTalk] Goodbye
My mother awoke yesterday for 5 minutes to find herself surrounded by children, grandchildren and, even a great-grandchild. I wish the same for you, Judy and, for all TT participants. Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 27, 2006 07:41 Subject: [TruthTalk] Goodbye My it is awfully quiet this morning;I don't even see anything from Lance (the early bird) Have been busy over the weekend so have not had much time tothink about goodbyes. Our son and DIL are building a house at the back of us - also we are involved daily with our daughter in TX who is presently in the midst of an ongoingcrisis. I would like to thank all of you for sharing yourselves on the TT List. I think I have learned in some way from everyone, though possibly not in the ways you or I would have thought. For me, TT has been a learning experience and I am thankful that DavidM rescued me from the legalistic Homechurch List where we met. David you and your family have been a real encouragement in the Lord. I took me a while to get to know each Listmember. My ideas regarding Street Preaching have changed and I have enjoyed Kevin and Dean so much. I am glad to know they are out there along with DM and Christine Miller. Just this morning I read 1 Kings 14:24 regarding the mess Judah was in after Solomon "and there were also sodomites in the land and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel" so theirs istruly a labor of love. Thank you Iz for sharing yourself, your pilgrimage, and your family with us. I wanted to share some photos but haven't had time to look for one to compete with JD and Gary :) Lance, I have to say that I was often surprised that you hung in there - We never did agree but I do appreciate the kind words you spoke on occasion; they tell me that you did not take what I wrote personally which is good. I am not angry with any person per se and have found everything interesting, even Dave Hanson's contributions in the historical or cultural sense (see your inputLance :) but when I came to TT I was and am stillfrustrated by dead orthodoxy andtheologies or menbecause they are powerless and I so want to see Jesus on the scene. There are more than 500 families in the church we attend and so many hurting ppl that the new counseling pastor is swamped they are calling him all hours of the day and night and he doesn't have time for his family. The teaching pastor is just back from spending a week in London and yesterday he shared how on the flight over there was a rape on the TV's on either side of him and when his wife turned hers on there was an adulterous affair on it. He then told ushow overwhelmed he was by Westminster Abbey where the Westminster Confession was put together and All Souls Church where John Stott whose writings have affected him so much pastored.. that's all well and good and I'm glad for him but on the way homeI told my husband that the effecthis sermon had on me was to make me want to go to London - but not for the same reasons. It did not make me hunger for more of Jesus. I long for God's Word to be exalted with great plainness of speech so that we will see His results with lives changed and health and peace among the people. I pray you will all grow in grace and in the knowledge of Him and that we will have opportunity to meet again. God Bless You All judyt in Suffolk VA
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
Or, take your Bible and point to Him while saying
'HE IS THE WORD'.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 26, 2006 08:33
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster
I love Crocodile
Dundee because he says, with a glint in his eye, Now THIS is a knife!
Life up your Bible and say, Now THIS is the Word! It cuts to the quick and
separates the men from the boys! J
iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:25
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster
I think it's a "right back atcha"
thing
Is that so?
Well, how do you like the fact that some American
Company bought the rights to all those Paul Hogan movies?Judy Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think it's a "right back atcha"
thing - for years I would go over there and hear much lamenting
about
what Americans had bought; do you
know an American Company now owns the all
Australian
delicious spread called
Vegemite?
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:45:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin
Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I've just learned that
Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real
Estate
They just bought the New York Thruway. Does that
mean I need a passport, now?From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy
TaylorThanks for this Kevin
Proof of the
pudding is always in the
eating.
I've just learned
that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate
also
So Lance and his
prophet don't have a whole lot of support from "down under"
either
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Kevin
Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Lance says
Canada will not
suffer the same fate at the USA.
Ah
Ah
AH
CHOO!
excuse
me
348,000 New
York jobs are supported
by Canada-U.S. trade
Total CanadaU.S. merchandise trade: $411
billion
CanadaU.S. trade supported 5.2 million
U.S.
jobs
More people traveled between
Canada and NY in
2004 than any other U.S.
state
14,500,000 vehicles crossed the Canada-U.S.
border at the four Niagara crossings last year, accounting for 34% of
all traffic that crossed into Ontario
ROTFL
With this many US Jobs gone, could CanaDUH
rebound?
http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_401.asp
Seeing that a FULL 84% of CanaDUHs exports are
US
Calculator
please
That leaves 16%, can CanaDUH's economy survive
on 16% of its present
exports?
Remember that the Total export/imports of
canada
represents a FULL 2/3rds of their
GDP!
SIZE does
matter!
Thanks for the add'l example of
mindless
parroting.
Don't you just HATE
Ignorance?
I guess it is better than letting
it go to waste.
Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The 'prophet' (take
note, David) said otherwise in November. Canada will not
suffer the same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that
matters.
- Original Message
-
From: Judy Taylor
T
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin
It's good to see you, Iz. Good eyes! There's a real person in there. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 26, 2006 08:44 Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin With my beautiful stepdaughter, Erin, this week. Izzy I sent these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin
Re: [TruthTalk] Invitation.
My goodness but it's striking. Many happy years. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 26, 2006 08:52 Subject: [TruthTalk] Invitation. The new house. It has a dark green roof. Plenty of bedrooms. Every one of you on TT (yes, even YOU, Gary!), come and visit us anytime, PLEASE!!! Izzy I sent these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
3rds of their
GDP!
SIZE does
matter!
Thanks for the add'l example of
mindless
parroting.
Don't you just HATE
Ignorance?
I guess it is better than
letting it go to
waste.
Lance Muir
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The 'prophet' (take
note, David) said otherwise in November. Canada will not
suffer the same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that
matters.
- Original
Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 25, 2006
08:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster
Don't worry
Lance, if the USA implodes
- Canada and
Europe will go with it - at
present when the
US sneezes
the rest of the world catch a cold. Such envy and jealousy
from the North ... Goodness
gracious!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
MuirMost on TT will live
to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the
option of moving out of your old house and into a new
one.
From: ShieldsFamily
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster
As a teacher, he had come to
dislike American elementary schools. They could be
overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages
crammed into one-room
schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers,
and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England.
Webster thought that Americans should learn from American
books, so he began writing a three volume compendium,
A Grammatical
Institute of the English Language. The work
consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a
grammar (published in 1784), and a
reader (published in 1785). His
goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered
approach to training
children.
The speller
was originally entitled The First Part of the
Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The title was changed in 1786 to
The American Spelling
Book, and again in 1829 to
The Elementary
Spelling Book. Most people called it the
"Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for
the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children
how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most
popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less
than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in
his other endeavors. Even Ben
F
Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin
Iz:He won a much deserved oscar for his performance in 'Tender Mercies'. I wish you all a wonderful evening. Lance - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 26, 2006 09:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin After living in the city with NO garage for five years I had a severe case of garage envy! Thanks. BTW, my eyeballs were a bit red, having stayed up till 3:00 a.m. with Erin the night before. They returned to Colorado yesterday, and tonight we are having eight couples from our church small group over for pizza and to watch Tender Mercies with Robert Duval. (The house is a wreck after playing with teenagers for a weekmust get busy!) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:33 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin Loved all of your photos Iz, Beautifulfamily, lovely pets, gracious home. How about all those garages; I know that comes in handy. From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 26, 2006 08:44 Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin With my beautiful stepdaughter, Erin, this week. Izzy I sent these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin
[TruthTalk] Fw: Goodbye, and thanks for all the ichthys
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 24, 2006 21:02 Subject: Goodbye, and thanks for all the ichthys I was afraid this was too long, but David's leisurely post has given me courage to blather a little, like the parting guest who suddenly becomes talkative in the doorway. I’m glad for the time I spent on TT, even though I left. I did learn stuff, especially early on as I encounteredsomeideas for the first time;certain posts, especially at the beginning, opened windows for me. Even some of themore plodding discussionswere an occasion for clarifying my own thinking or, alternatively, fuzzifying it if it was a little too sharp! And that may have been the best benefit of TT. I remember being surprised at the very beginning by the aggressiveness—a newish thing for me among believers even though I’ve moved in a wide variety of Christian circles. The exposure wasn’t all bad--it made me a bit more assertive and thicker-skinned, and forced me to recognize how easily I can be provoked to snarkiness myself. ButI often felt sad after an exchange. Sometimes, on the other hand, I was completely taken aback by the generosity and affirmation in people's responses. So I hope thatifthe experience has made me less naive aboutthe behaviour of Christians, it hasn't gone so far as to make me cynical.I still think I might havemisunderstood the culture of TT...I'mnot very astute that way. I’ve seen something of the serious limitations of e-mail, and yet I feel like I’ve met real people. Ifound every character on TT interesting and memorable, and enjoyed the different ‘flavours’ and the occasional anecdotal glimpses into people’s lives. I'dlove to meet you all face to face. In the eschaton if not before! Thank you, Lance, for introducing me to TT and encouraging me to participate--anact sobeautifully typical ofyou.But I especially want to thank David:you relentlessly engaged everybody, no matter how intractable, and even at your crazy-makingest you had the best manners of all--or at least made the best show of manners! J To me, the act of keeping this forumso wide open as long as you did, and the latitude you have given people to be themselves, show abroadnessabove and beyond your wordsthat commands my respect. Just to irritate some of you, I was going to finish with an excerpt quoting Bonhoeffer on how we reflect Christ to each other, from the chapter I've just finished working on in Victor's book. Instead, here's something less lofty, which for me is a kind of parable for TT: I'm watching my husbandgently heaveour sleeping youngest son up from the living room couch where he has repaired in frustration at his brother's endless,irritating snores. He had taken his pillow and blankets thereafter incrementally severe degrees of poking and bedshaking had failed to correct his brother's breathing. But now hefalls forward into his dad's arms, willingly allows himself to be moved, and wakes up as he is conducted by hands on his shoulders back to his ownbed. He crawls in beneath the bunk of his brother who snores impenitently on, and settles back to sleep. This is repeated twoor three times a week, but is always forgotten in the morning, and neitherbrother will tolerate talk of separate bedrooms. Open hands, everybody, and Jude 24 25. Love Debbie --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/291 - Release Date: 3/24/2006
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
IZ:No, I would not. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
Nothing tacit here. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism as the accumulating evidence suggests,certain Words doreveal preciselymanymonotonous mutualmonolithicmusingsmangling males On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:39:37 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mealy mouthed male. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:37 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism ..mutual mouthymale mashing On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:32:50 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (feminists' rhetoric) || On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..Let God be true and every man a liar - ..Funny how some guys take a false assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
cf Michael Polanyi - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism ..yer Words iz yer bond(age) Babe On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:38:47 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow; now we are accused of being feminists. LOL! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:33 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism myth (feminists' rhetoric) || On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..Let God be true and every man a liar - ..Funny how some guys take a false assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz
Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk]
At GWB rallies only 'supporters' are permitted within 'range'.Those who have a different 'belief system' (the obduart to employ Judy's most recent favourite word)are at risk. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:45 Subject: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] From WorldNetDaily.com: Rome, 22 March (AKI) - Abdul Rahman, the man condemned to death for having abandoned Islam, is just one of many Afghanis who decide to convert to Christianity, but most are forced to do so secretly, argues Arab Christian author Camille Eid. In an interview with Adnkronos International (AKI) Eid, author of "The Christians who come from Islam", said during a recent trip to Afghanistan he met many similar cases. "They are Christians who have sprung out of nowhere and it's unclear how they have decided by themselves to convert" he added. The US, Italy, Germany and Canada have all expressed concern over the fate of Rahman who converted to Christianity 16 years ago. "I also spoke to a priest who had passed through Kabul and he said he was amazed that women sitting on the ground at the local market saw he was a foreigner and a Christian, by the cross he was wearing, and attracted his attention to them by making a sign of the cross with their fingers. He was convinced that they were trying to send him a coded message" said Eid, a Lebanese Maronite who lives in Italy.According to the author, Abdul Rahman is not the first Afghan citizen to have been sentenced to death for apostasy since the fall of the Taliban regime. "The Islamic Taliban militias who still control entire areas of the country issued a statement in June 2004 in which they referred to a death sentence handed down to an Afghan converted to Christianity, Moulawi Asad Allah."
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
I seem to recall that Carroll was a feminist. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:38 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Creationism Wow; now we are accused of being feminists. LOL! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:33 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism myth (feminists' rhetoric) || On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..Let God be true and every man a liar - ..Funny how some guys take a false assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your logic? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism IZ:No, I would not. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:20 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Isnt that the truth? We sold our 100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations would never be finished. As soon as you started to repair one thing it led to another and another. The whole house needed to be replaced one thing after another! So we built new. What an analogy of the difference between religion and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march There is no such thing as a "renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder about you and your SS conversion. It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe t
[TruthTalk] Fw: from Gilead
- Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Lance Muir' Sent: March 24, 2006 22:00 Subject: from Gilead Hi David. I'm reading the novel Gilead by Marilynne Robinson, a letter from a dying pastor to his son. Just for fun, here's a paragraph I read a minute ago that contained a few echoes, for me, of what you said in today's conversation (Lance, I don't know if you were there for all of what David said): I believe the old man did indeed have far too narrow an idea of what a vision might be. He may, so to speak, have been too dazzled by the great light of his experience to realize that an impressive sun shines on us all. Perhaps that is the one thing I wish to tell you. Sometimes the visionary aspect of any particular day comes to you in the memory of it, or it opens to you over time. For example, whenever I take a child into my arms to be baptized, I am, so to speak, comprehended in the experience more fully, having seen more of life, knowing better what it means to affirm the sacredness of the human creature. I believe there are visions that come to us only in memory, in retrospect. That's the pulpit speaking, but it's telling the truth. Debbie --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/291 - Release Date: 3/24/2006
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Sikhs are permitted to wear 'sacred' daggers to school. The RCMP allow turbans over traditional head gear.The Muslim creation story is in the Q'ran (soon to be taught at a school near you). Think long term, Iz. When you choose shallowness of thought you become . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:15 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term. Hmm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your logic? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism IZ:No, I would not. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your old house and into a new one. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:13 Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster As a teacher, he had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered approach to training children. The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read. Noah was generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Websters 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible." "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language ) Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.
Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on and on and on
g distance phone call I will ever receive frommy
boyswas THAT call -- "Dad, this prof is killing us
!! What do we say?"
There was no doubt in their minds that The Reply would
work. I could have lost both boys the next day in
class !! You should have heard that next phone call the
next evening !! Awesome.
How did I know it would work ? I went to several science
classes over the years and used my best stuff in class
-- none of it survived except the above. but it was
enough.
Use the Bible as a battle ground AND YOU WILL CONDEMN YOUR CHILDREN
TO HELL. Get the educator to admit that his world of knowing
is not that much different than the Christian's and you have common
ground with which to discuss. You never fight your opponent
in his backyard !!
Since TT is almost over - one more story. My oldest
daughter came to me as a14 year old with her first job. Her
boss was an atheist. She tried to convert him and got beat up in
the process. "Dad, how do I defend inspiration to
Bruce?"
"Julie, you don't even try. Do this --
explain to him that all of the writers of the New Testament scriptures
were murdered for their beliefsand then ask him, 'Bruce,
don't you think you should at least examine what it was they died for
?"
He told her he was prepared for any response but that one
!!That opened a door that was slammed shut two weeks later
in his drowning death at the lake. Was there light in life because
of that talk? I like to think there was.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one to
that which one has just witnessed over the last week or so.
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006
17:01
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism
I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this.
I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some
time for what he said to take place. For example, if he spoke
for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a
minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he
said.He also may have been involved in other ways that
we don't understand right now. Do you see it
differently? It does not have anything to do with resting for
the next day.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23,
2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism
David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest
posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and
I am no atheist.
Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144
hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26
seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you
have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments
go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour
period. To say that it is metaphorical
doesnot mean that God did not create the world
and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to
me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that
I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand
that term , today. Look -- do you really
believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he
needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And
"rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is
impossible.
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Are you mocking the concept that God created the world
through faith and spea
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Judy, IMO, actually can't discern some of the issues as written. Iz, on the other hand, IMO can but chooses to write as if she didn't. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Of course. But that is not really the issue. -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] So IYO it is better to have secular folk teaching untruth than truth. I see . izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:46 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO TEACHES THEM. You want the secular world to be responsible -- I don't. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your logic? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism IZ:No, I would not.- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 g t; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: &l
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
I'd never suggest that you 'live in fear' nor do I believe that you would. Just BE REAL, (wo)man! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:25 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism I refuse to live in fear, but rather in faith. The difference between the Left and Right. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:23 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Sikhs are permitted to wear 'sacred' daggers to school. The RCMP allow turbans over traditional head gear.The Muslim creation story is in the Q'ran (soon to be taught at a school near you). Think long term, Iz. When you choose shallowness of thought you become . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:15 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term. Hmm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your logic? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism IZ:No, I would not. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster More liberal negativism and fear mongering. Wishing evil upon ones neighbor. This is nasty fruit that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. Im not denying that such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from the sidelines. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your old house and into a new one. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:13 Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster As a teacher, he had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered approach to training children. The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read. Noah was generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Websters 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible." "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language ) Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
How long Oh David, how long?
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 25, 2006 07:32
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism
What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic
educator "teach" what he does not believe -- you thinking, of
course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly negates the
purpose of this compromise. In the real world, Linda, you
simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our (the Christian
church -- whose address do we use , again ??) favor. In
fact, to get all the warring factions to agree, the stateent on creationism
would be so watered down as to be really meaningless.
--
Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scary to the max.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:14
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams
on Creationism
Of course. But that is not really the issue.
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So IYO it is
better to have secular folk teaching untruth than truth. I
see
. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:46
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams
on Creationism
It's not what is taught (for me and in this case)
so much as it is WHO TEACHES THEM. You want the secular
world to be responsible -- I don't.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed
something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught
about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your
logic? iz -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
IZ:No, I would not.- Original
Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OM> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 25, 2006
06:14 ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic
hypothetical, Iz. . -
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
That wasn't the question;
I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you
would want it taught in schools. You said NO.
Pathetic, eh? iz -Original
Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
David you are like so right, man!
familiaritycontempt...were those the
words? Probably got it comin'.
Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in
schools (i.e. creationism)
- Original Mes sage -
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 24, 2006
16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism So
you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all that's
left. Pathetic IMO. izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
Do you still harbor that much hatred? Sad! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Funny, my ex-husband referred to Christianity as fantasyland. I told him Id rather live in fantasyland than in hell with him. Same to you and your belief system, I guess. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:33 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster More liberal negativism and fear mongering. Wishing evil upon ones neighbor. This is nasty fruit that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. Im not denying that such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from the sidelines. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your old house and into a new one. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:13 Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster As a teacher, he had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered approach to training children. The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read. Noah was generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Websters 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible." "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language ) Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
FWIW (not much) I do not see you as carnal, Judy. I see you as a spirited 'spiritual' woman who would be wise never to reveal herself on a forum like this ever, ever again. You 'read' carnal but, when one sees through into your heart, you are anything but. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march You don't know me JD, never have and never will ... not at this rate anyway As a man believeth in his heart, so is he On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:39:15 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy, you are as carnal a spirited babe as I have ever known. So get off your high horse. There is a difference between defending sin and admitting to its presence. From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] The old house was judged at the cross; if you want to hang on to it JD that's your demise Probably why you defend carnality so adamantly also. Only the new men make it because only they are fit for the Kingdom. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:18:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does not happen in new birth. What you moved to avoid is the real analogy. I am surprised that you think differently. jd From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 06:20 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Isnt that the truth? We sold our 100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations would never be finished. As soon as you started to repair one thing it led to another and another. The whole house needed to be replaced one thing after another! So we built new. What an analogy of the difference between religion and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march There is no such thing as a "renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder about you and your SS conversion. It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an ident
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
'Snarky'? You made your bed, Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:55 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Hatred??? Not in the least. Just good sense IMO. Where you live looks like hell to me. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:43 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Do you still harbor that much hatred? Sad! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Funny, my ex-husband referred to Christianity as fantasyland. I told him Id rather live in fantasyland than in hell with him. Same to you and your belief system, I guess. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:33 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster More liberal negativism and fear mongering. Wishing evil upon ones neighbor. This is nasty fruit that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. Im not denying that such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from the sidelines. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:24 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your old house and into a new one. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:13 Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster As a teacher, he had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered approach to training children. The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read. Noah was generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Websters 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible." "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis
Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster
The 'prophet' (take note, David) said otherwise in November. Canada will not suffer the same fate at the USA. Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that matters. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 08:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster Don't worry Lance, if the USA implodes - Canada and Europe will go with it - at present when the US sneezes the rest of the world catch a cold. Such envy and jealousy from the North ... Goodness gracious! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirMost on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your old house and into a new one. From: ShieldsFamily http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster As a teacher, he had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American, Christ-centered approach to training children. The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read, spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time; by 1861, it was selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read. Noah was generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Websters 1828 American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible." "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language ) Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
You, Judy, could teach researching. However, you could not teach 'conclusions'! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 07:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If there are christian teachers in the system (and there are) who must teach theories of evolution that they do not believe. What's wrong with teaching the other side also even if there are unbelievers teaching it There are also unbelievers in different churches these days teaching all kinds of things. The student has the responsibility to search it out for themselves. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:32:49 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic educator "teach" what he does not believe -- you thinking, of course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly negates the purpose of this compromise. In the real world, Linda, you simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our (the Christian church -- whose address do we use , again ??) favor. In fact, to get all the warring factions to agree, the stateent on creationism would be so watered down as to be really meaningless. From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scary to the max. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:14 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Of course. But that is not really the issue. -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] So IYO it is better to have secular folk teaching untruth than truth. I see . izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:46 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO TEACHES THEM. You want the secular world to be responsible -- I don't. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of us aren't following your logic? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism IZ:No, I would not.- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] OM> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually La
Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on and on and on
Sometimes I think that I did but, those are not my good days, Judy.I do know that the world will cease to exist when I cease to exist. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 25, 2006 08:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on and on and on In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God Who spoke the worlds into existence? On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:26:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well He (Jesus) was and He wasn't. From: Judy Taylor Neither can you "debate" it, that is, if you deal with reality at all. You weren't there were you? All you have in your favor are flights of fancy that are no different than anyone else's flights of fancy. Jesus quoted from Genesis and He quoted as is - no explanation necessary. He was there!!! On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:30:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why can't it be the way it is written? Well - I wouldn't know the answer to that, Judy. I am talking about what is written. 26 seconds versus 144 hours is about what is written. Your little proof text has nothing to do with the topic of creation and this Genesis account. The reason why you chose not to debate the issue is because you cannot. And you certainly have not debated the issue. This is the third post from you I have opened this morning with absolutely nothing in any of them work responding too. Just negative chit-chat. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Says one from CA who has been permeated by the "fast food" fast everything generation Remember "He that believeth shall not make haste" So why does God have to be in a bighurry? And why can't it be the way it is written? Because JD says it does not make sense to him? On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: David, allow me this moment to reveal just a tad about the Smithmeister. Bulldogery is that which speaks of my passion. Indeed, I have gotten angry twice, here on TT, both times following one of your priceless comments . Twice in three years (going back a ways .)?!! Not bad, I think. I am certainly NOT emotional in my response(s)on this subject. There havebeen times, in past postings, that you have been even brilliant in your defense. This is not one of those times. Science and creation is not one of your strong points -- at least not this time around. I suspect that you are distracted with other things. To wit: God takes 26 seconds to speak all things into existence - I say. But you, wanting to present the act of creation as longer, say exactly 144 hours (6 days times 24 hours for those of you living near the Ozarks) retort with this -- For example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said. Maybe that doesn't sound funny to you, but honestly, it is a riot over here in my office. "Those dumb old land masses -- they couldn't just POP into place. N0sir-re. It took time for them to move into place -- upwards of several hours !! Com'on big D !! Just admit that the non-literal 24 hour crowd just might have a point !! Look -- if you give graduating high school studentsyour kind of information and send to them to Humbolt State - why, within minutes, the whole bunch of them would become atheists !! I have seen thishappen many times. Our young people have left their individual churches thinking there is nothing to evolution, or whatever, and when they sit in front of an antongist, they are left naked, poor and numb. You might not be impressed with my explanations offered to my boys at U of Cal at Davies -- but let me tell you this. I had been working on one line explanations for years before my boys got to school. All ofthose one-liners thoroughly defeated except for that one brief paragraph of
[TruthTalk] I just spoke with my mother
She's in a home. She's 88. They were checking her vital signs as we spoke and, are about to transport her to a hospital in Windsor, Ontario. I await a call from my brother.Your prayers for Ruth May would be appreciated, thanks, Lance
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
IMO God privileges the ear. We all have the capacity to hear well Also, the tacit dimension of knowing comes in to play here. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 16:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Interesting. I think I hear much, much better than I articulate. In fact, I'm sure of it. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:You articulate well. You apprehend, IMO, less well. You write like a 'neat freak'. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 14:58 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? I'm not a good communicator, Lance. I have been convinced of this, and I become more convinced the older I get. I try really hard, but I am frequently misunderstood. Nothing I have tried can cure this. It is a thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure. It constantly humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt for won't.) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to communicate with you-know-who.) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT and, onto things more important! - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance wrote: As to mantras David, yours 'I have only the truth and, all of the truth all of the time is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality. This is not my mantra. We have a communication problem here. I do not believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time. I don't believe that is true about anybody. David Miller Too tired with being misunderstood to continue... -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Just how wide do you wish the door open, scientifically speaking? This issue is akin to the 'prayer in school' issue. (Goose gander thingy) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 16:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Do you think it should be illegal to teach in schools, or do you just think it is good advice not to mention the Creator in schools? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh
I thought not but, thanks for the candid confirmation. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh Lance wrote: Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with the same force? No, I would not. I have a bias, but it is not as strong as the bias in place when a person has the establishment behind him. The establishment makes people a little lazy in their thinking. Me, I have to be right if I'm disagreeing with the establishment. They only have to tote the party line, and that reinforces their bias. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh David:Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with the same force? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh I talked to Carl once on the telephone. He was kind enough to return my phone call. The problem is that he made some huge mistakes in regards to the Paluxy River beds and it greatly hurt the evidence that might actually be there for a recent creation. The evolutionists were all over his mistake and have discounted his entire work because of it. The jury is still open for me on this matter, because I have seen the bias of scientists first hand. David Miller - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh DAVEH: Note to DavidM and other TTers. For the first time, I just watched a half hour of Carl Baugh's TBN (Thursday nights) program about science and the Bible. How do you folks perceive him? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Either that or, you are a TOTALLY IGNORANT BAPTIST. I've made MY choice, Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit...must be denied citizenship". Reformed Baptist? LOL Baptist Reconstruction? LOL Baptist Kingdom builders? LOL Baptist DominionISM? LOL Baptist Pope ROTFL RC Pope Calvin Reformed Presbyterian Bring in the kingdom Presbytery JD Replacement Theology "We are Jews" Presbytery, Romans,Reformed C's, Mormons, Reformed, JD Lance! Apparently you are TOTALLY IGNORANT of Baptists http://www.reformedreader.org/histb.htm see # 4 The priesthood of the believer #5 right of soul liberty or religious liberty # 7 The Separation of Church and State Try to get your baseless assertions straight: Gary North Reformed Catholic - Presbytery RJ Rushdoony Reformed Catholic - Presbytery Gary Demar -Reformed Catholic - presbytery Kindy garten 101 - Who is who? Baptist Roger Williams Holding a Bible http://www.zbt.org/traditions/Roger_Williams_photo.htm PROTESTant RC Zwingly - Holding Bible SWORD http://www.antipas.org/books/protesters/prot_images/zwingli.jpg For all you kiddies TEST QUESTION who has the sword? Even some Presbyterian RC's admit they are just RC http://reformedcatholicism.blogspot.com/ Dominion is the Sole Realm of Popes, Protestants Potentates!!! Again all the ammo you have is Psycho assertionISM! Name smearing and grossly misrepresenting peoples beliefs. These REFORMED Catholics are just like their Papa Baptists do not preach this baloney never have. Popes Protestants and Potentates have blood on their hands. Most times it was the blood of Baptists You defame their pure blood, shed by murderous RC's Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you RJ Rushdooney http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/fundienazis/royal_race.htm The Royal Race of the Redeemed? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? Have you finally come out of hiding after the Y2K fiasco? I do believe that were we to remove the hoods from some on TT we would see that which underlies the hatred that you spread throughout the mid-east and, elsewhere. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC. wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a consensus What do you know of RJR? Not as much as you think, I suppose. He is NOT a Fundamentalist Like Papa like son, bring out the stake Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoken like a true studen of RJR. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. O
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Whatever 'YOUR JOB' is Kevin, y'all ain't bin doin' it all that well AT TT! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 18:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Both your presuppositions and your deductions are available to be seen. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 19:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So I prefer the concept of believing in fundamental Christianity but not believing in fundamentalism.And that is whileI prefer to believe the Special Revelation of God himself, I do not have a POPE or Potentate or Presbytery. I simply believe the revelation in the Book. JN 17:17 "Thy word IS Truth" That is my presupposition I Deduce all my beliefs from there. Holy Spirit testifies of Christ John 15:26-27 [26]"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me The Word testifies of Christ JN 5:39, 46 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me." "For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me" "To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."Isaiah 8:20. David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To believe fundamental Christianity means to accept fundamental tenets of Christianity. To believe fundamentalism means to embrace a sect of Christianity which hammers on the fundamentals. What if that "ism" sect said that only the KJV was inspired, or that believers need to sell all, forsake possessions, and live in communes like the early believers did, or that anyone who did not speak in tongues and heal the sick were not living in the same faith as the early believers? I could go on and on. The problem with believing in any "ism" is that if error creeps into the "ism" sect at all, it infects the whole group. So I prefer the concept of believing in fundamental Christianity but not believing in fundamentalism.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:31 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on CreationismThen maybe you can flesh it out for the rest of us.I am sure Lance can not/will notI am sure we can see the difference, but just what are the symptoms of that particular ISM?David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Lance wrote: Fundamental Christianity is [fine]... FundamentalISM ought not be believed by anyone.FWIW: I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh
Ah David, is YOUR BIAS GOD'S BIAS? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 19:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh Hear that, Judy. Who would have believed you to be a party girl.-- jd Lance wrote: Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with the same force?No, I would not.I have a bias, but it is not as strong as the bias in place when a person has the establishment behind him. The establishment makes people a little lazy in their thinking. Me, I have to be right if I'm disagreeing with the establishment. They only have to tote the party line, and that reinforces their bias.David Miller -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with the same force? No, I would not. I have a bias, but it is not as strong as the bias in place when a person has the establishment behind him. The establishment makes people a little lazy in their thinking. Me, I have to be right if I'm disagreeing with the establishment. They only have to tote the party line, and that reinforces their bias. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl BaughDavid:Would you apply the word 'bias' equally to yourself and, to Judy with the same force? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh I talked to Carl once on the telephone. He was kind enough to return my phone call. The problem is that he made some huge mistakes in regards to the Paluxy River beds and it greatly hurt the evidence that might actually be there for a recent creation. The evolutionists were all over his mistake and have discounted his entire work because of it. The jury is still open for me on this matter, because I have seen the bias of scientists first hand. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Dave Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Truth Talk" <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Carl Baugh DAVEH: Note to DavidM and other TTers. For the first time, I just watched a half hour of Carl Baugh's TBN (Thursday nights) program about science and the Bible. How do you folks perceive him? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.or g If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.-- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Gettin' better and better! Why did you save the best for last? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:41 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Linda, I believe that de-evolution is a much stronger force than evolution. I believe that natural selection only works when a mutation creates not only the change , itself, but a population with the same mutation and a reproductive proclivity that prevents the unique from being absorbed BACK into the general population. Evenan old earth belief,IMO,does not present enough time for evolution to have occurred at the levels claimed by its believers. And theistic evolution is only a form of creationism -- God manipulating growth and change via a process. Micro - yes. Macro - no. I believe that the "eternity of God" is philosophically preferable to the eternity of matter (in whatever form ) and motion (of elementary particles). While at Cal Davis, my two sons had to deal with a radical andatheistic biology prof. These were some of the points I gave them. They used them in class.They semed to work. Do I want creationism forced into the curriculum of our schools. NO. Who would teach it? What brand of creationism would be taught? And how do you teach it without a knowledge of and the use of the Bible? I mean -- isn't that the point of creationism? The BIBLE says this BUT science says something else? IMO, there simply is no way such a concept could be implemented. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creation ism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no." So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be tri ple yikes) - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. g t; He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompa
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
I'm humbled at your objectivity, Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Christian roots of our public education system No but I do know about the Lefty Fruits of our public education, it is not about education. it is all about Indoctrination. Government school Education is one of the promises ofthe Communist Manifesto 1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. Misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share". 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. We call it Federal State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. We call in government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Police confiscation and Court ordered political fines.5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. We call it the Federal Reserve which is a credit/debt system nationally organized by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State. We call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) madated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations. 7. Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. We call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations. 8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture. We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920s, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country. We call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. 10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc. People are being taxed to support what we call "public" schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education".ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From:
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
The archbishop + nothing = first rate teaching. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 00:01 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism What do I believe about Genesis? Did you read any of my posts? Sciencehas no answers to our confusion, our bondage, our need for community andan innate longing to live beyond what we see.As soon as we turn Genesis into a statement of science, we lessen its value to the human spirit. What do I get from reading those first three chapters? That God is in control -- not that He is SOMEHOW in control - but that He is IN FACT in control. He is my creator. I am in His image. And even when I fall, He continues to hover over and round me. It tells me that I was created for others -- my wife, my children and the world in which I live. It tells me I am responsible for much of my actions. Work is a curse because I must be responsible !! I and my wife are one becauseGodthought this to be the case from the beginning. and REST has as much a place in the coming and goings of man as work. That's what I get out of this Genesis account.Whilesome of you only see a debate Do you know the best way of dealing with a child - in my case an older son -- who comes home announcing that he no longer believes in the bible??!! IGNORE that comment and continue to be a witness , using, at times, the very book that he rejects. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT challenge him/her to a debate. You will not win, if your version of :winning" is to bring that child to say "Iwas wrong, Dad, and you were right again." He won't do it. But if you ignore the challenge, and give biblical presentations that make sense to the way he is living his life -- the objection vanishes into thin air. Theory? Nope. It worked on both of my older boys - the lawyer and the doctor. But I digress with some free advice. The long and short of the lesson is this -- make the Bible THE battle ground and you will lose the war !!! Present the Bible as something that offers life in the Spirit of God in the Christ of God and you have a winner. jd jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] My goodness, jd. What DO you believe about Genesis??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:36 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
Iz:I totally concur. That is why Judy and yourself are so frequently in sinc with David. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 22:59 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance, I believe it is not David who don't/won't see, but those who criticize him who are wearing the blinders. He communicates perfectly well with those who are of the same Spirit. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:59 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? I'm not a good communicator, Lance. I have been convinced of this, and I become more convinced the older I get. I try really hard, but I am frequently misunderstood. Nothing I have tried can cure this. It is a thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure. It constantly humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt for won't.) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to communicate with you-know-who.) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT and, onto things more important! - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Lance wrote: As to mantras David, yours 'I have only the truth and, all of the truth all of the time is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality. This is not my mantra. We have a communication problem here. I do not believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time. I don't believe that is true about anybody. David Miller Too tired with being misunderstood to continue... -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc
Sorry David but, here's another pat on the back from Iz to offset my remark. Better now? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc Lance, It seems that you are insecure that DM received a genuine pat on the back, and then was straightforward enough to say he appreciated a kind word. (Not a good thingy.) iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:36 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc David:Are you that insecure? - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc Thank you, Judy, for being perceptive and understanding me. David Miller - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc Then I suggest that those of you who are titillated by this kind of thing take G with you and form your own List because this is not only rude it is divisive and sectarian - Oh thou discerner of sects DM does not do this. He works hard to try and communicate with others wherever they are at -This is preferring one's brother/sister - in LOVE. An alien concept to some. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It should be obvious why G does this. It is to some of us. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey Iz; you and your husband are in the medical field. What do they say about ppl who like to dialogue with themselves all the time like this? I note none of these are questions they are all answers. What was the question? On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:21:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..e.g., "Take a guard..Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how" means thatPilate knew, implictly,that he never could 'wash his hands' ofJC (who was, quiteinterestingly, apprehending him) On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:11:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..the difference betw her Pilate is that his language, implicitly, his notion of having 'apprehended'JC, is suspect On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:10 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..in her psyche, the writer already knows the notion is suspect On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:55 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (note the quotes) On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:51:52 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. apprehend Christ.. ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
rograms for the reason stated below. Amen. And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. Scary. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of c
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
It does.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 23:14
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
It is also absurd
that someone who claims to believe that all truth comes from God would not
consider that all true science does the same.
izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David MillerSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:46
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Supply all the names of real scientists that you like,
Lance. It does not change the facts about the position of the scientific
establishment. I'm talking about organizations like theNational
Academy of Sciences. They make a big legal case concerning
howcreation science is religion and therefore it is ILLEGAL to teach it
in public schools. Any mention of a Creator makes it RELIGION instead of
SCIENCE. Their position is that science and religion occupytwo
separate realms of human experience. They accept the fact thatmany
scientists are deeply religious, but they insist that the two cannot be
combined. Therefore,any mention of a Creator in science is
forbidden.
I reject the notion that science and religion do not
overlap.
By the way, the NAS also makes bigmention of how
most religious groups have concluded that evolution is not at odds with their
descriptions of creation and human origins. In other words,the
scientific establishmentloves guys like R. Williams who help them keep
the acknowledgement of God out of the
classroom.
David
Miller
- Original Message -
From: Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] on Creationism
David says that 'the scientific
establishment has...'. Look, David, if the generalization works for you
then, OK! I already told you that I'd supply the names of real, as opposed
to pretend, scientists, who are themselves believers (I supplied a couple of
names) who hold to a variety of positions on this matter.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
23, 2006 14:20
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] on Creationism
I really do not understand how it is that you
think Fundies have destroyed any opportunity for creationism in
schools. The problem is that the scientific establishment has taken
the position that any mention of a Creator departs from science.
Lance's position of theistic evolution is flatly rejected by
science. So the Fundies are not hindering creationism in
schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to this
fact?
David
Miller
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 AM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] on Creationism
With much debate, the Fundies destroy any
opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the
reason stated below. Amen.
And, again, a foot in the door would only
allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational
institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming
at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for
the Right Side. Scary.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There are as many
'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the
keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've
already come up with. I rest my case your
honor.
- Original Message
-
From:
Judy Taylor
To:
truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 23, 2006 06:44
Subject:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism
Why advocate
teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
A book truly perceptive re: human nature. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:12 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Why is this so hauntingly reminiscent of communication between Screwtape and Wormwood? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:40 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You have risen to new heights, soon to be appointed ARCHbishop, John. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 16:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting?? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't you get it JT? TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS! The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So? There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one to that which one has just witnessed over the last week or so. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:01 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this. I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some time for what he said to take place. For example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said.He also may have been involved in other ways that we don't understand right now. Do you see it differently? It does not have anything to do with resting for the next day. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting?? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't you get it JT? TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS! The opinions of Men are the key.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So? There isn't a single fiew of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote:
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
Censorship you say, David? TT just fired a censor?
Christians can be no more trusted than anyone else. I'd not expect you to agree
on this though in granting 'Senator' CDM a stint you illustrated my
point.
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 16:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Let the teacher decide what is relevant. They don't teach all the
competing ideas of evolution either, so what is the problem? The problem
of censorship should concern you because the truth is not afraid of
evidence. You should be concerned whenever one side uses legal maneuvers
and rhetoric to prevent the other side from being heard.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:50
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
And who is going to present these competing versions of creation
-- the average Joe school teacher ?? Do you have any
idea what an antagonist educator would do with such
information? Actually, this "creationism in the school"
thingy is really starting to sound like a bad idea !!
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future, where
Biff is hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody
Home? Think, McFly, Think."
To further elucidate my point:having numerous creationist
models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our educational
system. There are numerous models of evolution as well. The
premise by which you think you can rest your case is
ratherelusive.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:09
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Homer Simpson, while attempting to steal a
candy bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He dragged that one
over to another for a second attempt thus getting both arms securely
locked in. Somehow, with his nose, he managed to dial 911 for
assistance. The operator asked Homer 'Are each of your hands wrapped
around candy bars?' Homer replied, 'your point being?'
David: You sound a little like Homer in
your reply.
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 10:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Lance
wrote:
There are as many
'species' of creationists as fish.
The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your
point?
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
There are as many 'species' of
creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of
computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already
come up with. I rest my case your honor.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism
Why advocate teaching what you don't know
JD? As has already been noted "Only when we
prove
evolution do we need to concern ourselves
with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence
that
this level of proof has not been achieved
includes the long list of scientists and others who have
abandoned
Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So
why
would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven? judyt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the
scho
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
Keep this triadic structure in mind: God/World/Man. Reality/truth is the objective. If the foregoing is applicable to a scientific endeavour then, bring it with you. In 'reality' one cannot avoid 'reality' in pursuit of the truth.. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 16:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism I know many scientists who are Christians and hold to theistic evolution. That does not mean that they bring that view in when they practice science. They are not allowed and they will be the first to tell you. I don't see myself as a fundamentalist, but I'm not going to fight with those who characterize me as such. I like Pat Robertson. He is not a dufus from my perspective. I do not favor the idea of forcing the teaching of creation in schools. I am against the notion of forbidding teachers from dealing with this subject matter. I'm against theidea of it being illegal to teach creationscience in schools.I have known many high school teachers that would not have the problem that you outline below. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism Daivd, I have several books on my shelves written by Christian scientists proclaiming some version of theistic evolution. Secondly,you and are both members of the fundamentalist community. If you have missed the M.O. of any number of our brethren, I haven't. Look at Pat Robertson. A Dufus of major proportions. He has his foot in his mouth so often they now measure that cavity in terms of shoe size !! The cause of Christ would becomeeven more difficult if we allowed this to happen. At least the way it is now, we (the Christian community) can somewhat hide these guys from society. The KKK was made up of mostly Christian claiming people. Can you imagine? "OK, students,we have just completedour study on evolution from a scientific point of view. Now , we enter into the Christian notion of creation -- or should I say the several versions of same !! (and the teacher smiles.) We only had space in the text book for five such theories. I personally do not believe any of them -- and I need to make that clear to you before "they" pass some law that says I cannot influence your thinking with such a statement -- but I will do the best I can.Before I begin, how many of you care about any of this... show of hands, please . I said "show of " . oh, I get get it. Well , we have to consider each of these accounts of creation, anyway, and there will be a test. I must say, it seems a bit odd for me. I mean, I wil l be making a presentation of a biblical nature, but , of course, we are not permitted to present from the Bible -- so I really do not know why this is not being done in church .. but here goes ..." jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools. The problem is that the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a Creator departs from science. Lance's position of theistic evolution is flatly rejected by science. So the Fundies are not hindering creationism in schools. Scientists are. Are you really blind to this fact? David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. Amen. And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. Scary. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are as many 'speci
[TruthTalk] Divine Contingent Order
When one seeks to apply the latter onto the former one is simply stymied. In failing to apprehend this one bangs one's head against the proverbial wall.
Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Contingent Order
After reading you, I'm inclined toward a YES! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Contingent Order Was it a BIG Bang?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When one seeks to apply the latter onto the former one is simply stymied. In failing to apprehend this one bangs one's head against the proverbial wall. Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Oh but I do, Kevin. However, I'm not inclined toward 'darkening the corner where you are'. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you do not KNOW what it is how can you make a value judgement on it?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever 'YOUR JOB' is Kevin, y'all ain't bin doin' it all that well AT TT! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 18:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system . I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Thanks in part to you, I've got some of the facts before me. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Facts stand the test better than Feelings. And as always the deeper things belong to UR MUTHA WEARS COMBAT BOOTSLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Either that or, you are a TOTALLY IGNORANT BAPTIST. I've made MY choice, Kevin. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit...must be denied citizenship". Reformed Baptist? LOL Baptist Reconstruction? LOL Baptist Kingdom builders? LOL Baptist DominionISM? LOL Baptist Pope ROTFL RC Pope Calvin Reformed Presbyterian Bring in the kingdom Presbytery JD Replacement Theology "We are Jews" Presbytery, Romans,Reformed C's, Mormons, Reformed, JD Lance! Apparently you are TOTALLY IGNORANT of Baptists http://www.reformedreader.org/histb.htm see # 4 The priesthood of the believer #5 right of soul liberty or religious liberty # 7 The Separation of Church and State Try to get your baseless assertions straight: Gary North Reformed Catholic - Presbytery RJ Rushdoony Reformed Catholic - Presbytery Gary Demar -Reformed Catholic - presbytery Kindy garten 101 - Who is who? Baptist Roger Williams Holding a Bible http://www.zbt.org/traditions/Roger_Williams_photo.htm PROTESTant RC Zwingly - Holding Bible SWORD http://www.antipas.org/books/protesters/prot_images/zwingli.jpg For all you kiddies TEST QUESTION who has the sword? Even some Presbyterian RC's admit they are just RC http://reformedcatholicism.blogspot.com/ Dominion is the Sole Realm of Popes, Protestants Potentates!!! Again all the ammo you have is Psycho assertionISM! Name smearing and grossly misrepresenting peoples beliefs. These REFORMED Catholics are just like their Papa Baptists do not preach this baloney never have. Popes Protestants and Potentates have blood on their hands. Most times it was the blood of Baptists You defame their pure blood, shed by murderous RC's Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you RJ Rushdooney http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/fundienazis/royal_race.htm The Royal Race of the Redeemed? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? Have you finally come out of hiding after the Y2K fiasco? I do believe that were we to remove the hoods from some on TT we would see that which underlies the hatred that you spread throughout the mid-east and, elsewhere. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC. wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a consensus What do you know of RJR? Not as much as you think, I suppose. He is NOT a Fundamentalist Like Papa like son, bring out the stake Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoken like a true studen of RJR. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe w
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Oh ya? (see how content-filled that is?) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism But you are inclined to making baseless assertions.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh but I do, Kevin. However, I'm not inclined toward 'darkening the corner where you are'. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you do not KNOW what it is how can you make a value judgement on it?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever 'YOUR JOB' is Kevin, y'all ain't bin doin' it all that well AT TT! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 18:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system . I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PRO
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
is who?
Baptist Roger Williams Holding a Bible http://www.zbt.org/traditions/Roger_Williams_photo.htm
PROTESTant RC Zwingly - Holding Bible SWORD
http://www.antipas.org/books/protesters/prot_images/zwingli.jpg
For all you kiddies TEST QUESTION who has the
sword?
Even some Presbyterian RC's admit they are just RC
http://reformedcatholicism.blogspot.com/
Dominion is the Sole Realm of Popes,
Protestants Potentates!!!
Again all the ammo you have is Psycho assertionISM!
Name smearing and grossly misrepresenting peoples beliefs.
These REFORMED Catholics are just like their Papa
Baptists do not preach this baloney never have.
Popes Protestants and Potentates have blood on their hands.
Most times it was the blood of Baptists
You defame their pure blood, shed by murderous RC's
Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was
slain among you
RJ Rushdooney
http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/fundienazis/royal_race.htm
The Royal Race of the
Redeemed?
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? Have
you finally come out of hiding after the Y2K fiasco? I do believe that
were we to remove the hoods from some on TT we would see that which
underlies the hatred that you spread throughout the mid-east and,
elsewhere.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006
07:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism
AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension
I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC.
wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a
consensus
What do you know of RJR?
Not as much as you think, I suppose.
He is NOT a Fundamentalist
Like Papa like son, bring out the stake
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Spoken like a true studen of
RJR.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006
21:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism
Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school
; )[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the
school systemsand you are talking about religious
people!!! Amazing
Maybe we should install a different creationist version
for every major school system
I am sure we can find enough
fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to
worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest
idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be
happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH
AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!
jd
--
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I surmised as much JD; my point
being that religious ppl have many
and varied points of view about
anything and everything and this is no
measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Do you even know what this thread is about,
Judy?
WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE
CIRRICULUM -- HUH ???
From:
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So?
There isn't a single view of
the whole church that is agreed upon
by the whole church
either. What does that prove?
judyt
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:2
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Less is more. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism When was the last time on TT you posted more than two sentences? When was at least one of the sentences about those combat boots? Posts of web pages excepted.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh ya? (see how content-filled that is?) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism But you are inclined to making baseless assertions.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh but I do, Kevin. However, I'm not inclined toward 'darkening the corner where you are'. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you do not KNOW what it is how can you make a value judgement on it?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever 'YOUR JOB' is Kevin, y'all ain't bin doin' it all that well AT TT! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 18:39 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system . I am sure we can find
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
Doncha just love that BOLD PRINT? You, Kevin, take paragraphs to say 'combat boots'! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is otherwise politically incorrect. For example, the Canadian supreme court recently turned down an appeal by a Christian minister convicted of inciting hatred against Muslims. An Ontario appellate court had found that the minister did not intentionally incite hatred, but was properly convicted for being willfully blind to the effects of his actions. This decision led Robert Martin, a professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario, to comment that he increasingly thinks "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Indeed, it has apparently become illegal in Canada to advocate traditional Christian opposition to homosexual sex. For example, the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission ordered the Saskatoon Star Phoenix and Hugh Owens to each pay $1,500 to each of three gay activists as damages for publication of an advertisement, placed by Owens, which conveyed the message that the Bible condemns homosexual acts. In another incident, after Toronto print-shop owner Scott Brockie refused on religious grounds to print letterhead for a gay-activist group, the local human-rights commission ordered him to pay the group $5,000, print the requested material, and apologize to the group's leaders. Brockie, who always accepted print jobs from individual gay customers, and even did pro-bono work for a local AIDS group, is fighting the decision on religious-freedom grounds. Any gains the gay-rights movement has received from the crackdown on speech in Canada have been pyrrhic because as part of the Canadian government's suppression of obscene material, Canadian
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
If you, Kevin, said anything that warranted discussion.ZZ - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism Is there any doubt why there is a lack of discussion on TT? UR MUTHA wears Combat boots Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy:The next time you're asked a question about anything, just hand 'em a Bible with the accompanying instructions: READ IT. Perhaps they'll begin to speak with the clarity with which you do. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do I believe about Genesis? Did you read any of my posts? Sciencehas no answers to our confusion, our bondage, our need for community andan innate longing to live beyond what we see.As soon as we turn Genesis into a statement of science, we lessen its value to the human spirit. How about a statement of TRUTH communicated by the author of TRUTH then? What do I get from reading those first three chapters? That God is in control -- not that He is SOMEHOW in control - but that He is IN FACT in control. He is my creator. I am in His image. He is your Creator but you are not in His image unless you have been totally conformed to the image of Christ already - in fact, not in theory only. Your attitude to His Law would belie that. And even when I fall, He continues to hover over and round me. It tells me that I was created for others -- my wife, my children and the world in which I live. The first three chapters of Genesis tells you all of the above? Where? It tells me I am responsible for much of my actions. Work is a curse because I must be responsible !! Newsflash!! You are responsible for ALL of your thoughts as well as your actions. I and my wife are one becauseGodthought this to be the case from the beginning. and REST has as much a place in the coming and goings of man as work. That's what I get out of this Genesis account.Whilesome of you only see a debate You and your wife are one flesh; the Lord would like to be One spirit with you JD Do you know the best way of dealing with a child - in my case an older son -- who comes home announcing that he no longer believes in the bible??!! IGNORE that comment and continue to be a witness , using, at times, the very book that he rejects. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT challenge him/her to a debate. You will not win, if your version of :winning" is to bring that child to say "Iwas wrong, Dad, and you were right again." He won't do it. But if you ignore the challenge, and give biblical presentations that make sense to the way he is living his life -- the objection vanishes into thin air. Theory? Nope. It worked on both of my older boys - the lawyer and the doctor. But I digress with some free advice. The long and short of the lesson is this -- make the Bible THE battle ground and you will lose the war !!! Present the Bible as something that offers life in the Spirit of God in the Christ of God and you have a winner. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] My goodness, jd. What DO you believe about Genesis??? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:36 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an a
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
'FEEL'? You a lib? Does the writing of some contain a coded message? (What I'm saying is sufficiently superficial so as to warrant the reader's contempt so.) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism I FEEL like you are creating a "climate of contempt" I am going to turn you in. Seeing as your government tribunals have found that "Protected rights must be interpreted broadly," while, "defences and exceptions are to be applied narrowly." you are in BIG trouble now. Your opinions show willful disdain of the law Human Rights Act 1985. Let the Canadian Inquisition begin. I am calling now.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you, Kevin, said anything that warranted discussion.ZZ - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism Is there any doubt why there is a lack of discussion on TT? UR MUTHA wears Combat boots Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy:The next time you're asked a question about anything, just hand 'em a Bible with the accompanying instructions: READ IT. Perhaps they'll begin to speak with the clarity with which you do. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 06:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What do I believe about Genesis? Did you read any of my posts? Sciencehas no answers to our confusion, our bondage, our need for community andan innate longing to live beyond what we see.As soon as we turn Genesis into a statement of science, we lessen its value to the human spirit. How about a statement of TRUTH communicated by the author of TRUTH then? What do I get from reading those first three chapters? That God is in control -- not that He is SOMEHOW in control - but that He is IN FACT in control. He is my creator. I am in His image. He is your Creator but you are not in His image unless you have been totally conformed to the image of Christ already - in fact, not in theory only. Your attitude to His Law would belie that. And even when I fall, He continues to hover over and round me. It tells me that I was created for others -- my wife, my children and the world in which I live. The first three chapters of Genesis tells you all of the above? Where? It tells me I am responsible for much of my actions. Work is a curse because I must be responsible !! Newsflash!! You are responsible for ALL of your thoughts as well as your actions. I and my wife are one becauseGodthought this to be the case from the beginning. and REST has as much a place in the coming and goings of man as work. That's what I get out of this Genesis account.Whilesome of you only see a debate You and your wife are one flesh; the Lord would like to be One spirit with you JD Do you know the best way of dealing with a child - in my case an older son -- who comes home announcing that he no longer believes in the bible??!! IGNORE that comment and continue to be a witness , using, at times, the very book that he rejects. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT challenge him/her to a debate. You will not win, if your version of :winning" is to bring that child to say "Iwas wrong, Dad, and you were right again." He won't do it. But if you ignore the challenge, and give biblical presentations that make sense to the way he is living his life -- the objection vanishes into thin air. Theory? Nope. It worked on both of my older boys - the lawyer and the doctor. But I
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is otherwise politically incorrect. For example, the Canadian supreme court recently turned down an appeal by a Christian minister convicted of inciting
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
You've in no way misrepresented Canada through either your links or your commentary so, I'd ask, having just undergone a lobotomy, what your point is? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Can you FEEL the "Chill Bill" Now? Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However, any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity including material that the First Amendment would protect in the United States was deprived of constitutional protection to protect women from discrimination. Even the most zealous advocates of freedom of _expression_ often feel uncomfortable defending the right to engage in Holocaust denial or to propagate degrading pornography. But, not surprisingly, the inevitable result of allowing these initial speech restrictions has been the gradual but significant growth of censorship and suppression of civil liberties across Canada. In many cases, the speech that is suppressed conflicts with the Canadian government's official multiculturalist agenda, or is otherwise politically incorrect. For example, the Canadian supreme court recently turned down an appeal by a Christian minister convicted of inciting hatred against Muslims. An Ontario appellate court had found that the minister did not intentionally incite hatred, but was properly convicted for being willfully blind to the
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line no matter who asks? So, Kevin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you do what you do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little wonder that SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake or, anywhere else! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Are you talking to me, Gary North?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient.Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin,professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated." Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Cant Say ThatCanadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next." The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail. Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable" restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster. Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
David:Want a crowd? Want to make some money? Design a travelling road show which will appear in major cities throughout your nation. Offer up yourself as, what the scientific community would call, the sacrificial lamb on the altar of truth. Contact the leading lights of the scientific community ahead of time. Select a venue. Sell tickets. Do exactly what you say below that you've already done. Invite the press. As you are CERTAIN of the outcome - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If I were teaching high school biology right now, I would spend one day out of the whole year to discuss the creation / evolution controversy. I would consider some of the stronger arguments for creation. Furthermore, I would teach them that science considers any mention of a Creator as something that puts a theory outside the realm of science, and I would teach them that the scientific establishment does not consider any model of origins that involves a Creator to be something that science could consider. Of course, I would also express my disagreement with this notion because religious theories that make empirical predictions can be tested scientifically. This is ignored by the scientific establishment in their zeal to outlaw religious theories in schools. By the way, every past colleague of mine that I have argued this point, about creationist models being scientifically testable, have had to agree with me that I was right, after MUCH arguing, but they will only concede that every Creationist model of origins that is scientifically testable has already been falsified. The ones that have not been falsified are still unscientific. Go figure. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:58 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Just how wide do you wish the door open, scientifically speaking? This issue is akin to the 'prayer in school' issue. (Goose gander thingy) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 16:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Do you think it should be illegal to teach in schools, or do you just think it is good advice not to mention the Creator in schools? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
I'd Amen that, David.
- Original Message -
From:
David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 24, 2006 08:40
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Misinformation here, Lance. TruthTalk did not fire anybody.
The moderator resigned. I still think he would have done a fine job if
he had allowedsome dialogue about what he was doing.
I do agree, however, that Christians (and you know how I use
thisterm)cannot be trusted anymore than anyone else.
The liberty of the teacher should be allowed, whether we trust the
teacher or not. Our ability to communicate with the teacher should be
enough to help curb any undesirablebehavior. I favor communication
and persuasion over censorship. How about you?
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:49
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Censorship you say, David? TT just fired a
censor? Christians can be no more trusted than anyone else. I'd not expect
you to agree on this though in granting 'Senator' CDM a stint you
illustrated my point.
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 16:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Let the teacher decide what is relevant. They don't teach all
the competing ideas of evolution either, so what is the problem? The
problem of censorship should concern you because the truth is not afraid
of evidence. You should be concerned whenever one side uses legal
maneuvers and rhetoric to prevent the other side from being heard.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:50
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
And who is going to present these competing versions of
creation -- the average Joe school teacher
?? Do you have any idea what an antagonist educator would do
with such information? Actually, this "creationism in
the school" thingy is really starting to sound like a bad idea !!
jd
--
Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You remind me, Lance, of another show... Back to the Future,
where Biff is hitting Marty McFly on the head, "Hello, Hello, Anybody
Home? Think, McFly, Think."
To further elucidate my point:having numerous
creationist models of origins is not a reason to exclude them from our
educational system. There are numerous models of evolution as
well. The premise by which you think you can rest your case is
ratherelusive.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Homer Simpson, while attempting to
steal a candy bar from a vending machine, got his arm stuck. He
dragged that one over to another for a second attempt thus getting
both arms securely locked in. Somehow, with his nose, he managed to
dial 911 for assistance. The operator asked Homer 'Are each of your
hands wrapped around candy bars?' Homer replied, 'your point
being?'
David: You sound a little like Homer in
your reply.
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006
10:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism
Lance
wrote:
There are as many
'species' of creationists as fish.
The same can be said for evolutionists. So what is your
point?
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, March 23,
2006 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] o
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Who wouldn't be convinced when one employes terms/expressions such as 'testable by empirical means', 'model of creation..less than 10,000 years old' , 'a prediction that is testable scientifically?' and 'empirical clocks to test this prediction?' Now, why don't you take this on the road? - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Correct, and some of this activity proposes empirical predictions that are testable by empirical means. For example, if a model of creation says that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, isn't that a prediction that is testable scientifically? Don't we have empirical clocks to test this prediction? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one to that which one has just witnessed over the last week or so. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:01 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this. I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some time for what he said to take place. For example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said.He also may have been involved in other ways that we don't understand right now. Do you see it differently? It does not have anything to do with resting for the next day. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David !! Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you have ever written. First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually speak) is rather simple -- you have somehow lost the context of my statement. My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24 hour period. To say that it is metaphorical doesnot mean that God did not create the world and even in the sequence depicted -- at least not to me. Such an admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific" as we understand that term , today. Look -- do you really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!?? And "rest up " for what? Com'on David, this is impossible. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith and speaking? What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to do with how long it took for the world to come into being? I don't understand your point. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So which fundamentalist version of creation do you support. That A E were spirit people. A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or an "unknown" e.t. ? The version that says it took God 144 hours to speak words that canbe spoken in 24 seconds !!! I just did it in 24 big ones !! including a drink of water because my mouth was getting dry. Consensus has NOTHING to do with !! Rad Fundies cannot agree on much of anything. Which version goes into the school system ??? We are still waiting?? jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [E
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science' reflects neither. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she should teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it,and its place in thehistory of science and religion. Isn't it strange how science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation science being dealt with in the same way? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy.
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...' - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion I have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword! Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan. "The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary North The question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva North The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New Geneva Nevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" North What the ten commandments set forth is a strategy. This strategy is a strategy for dominion. Gary (enforce the law with the sword) North " Jesus was not denying the legitimacy of biblical law. On the contrary, He was affirming biblical law. We love God first; God commands us to keep His word; therefore, we must enforce the law on ourselves. Gary NorthThe battle for the mind, some fundamentalists believe, is between fundamentalism and the institutions of the Left. This conception of the battle is fundamentally incorrect. The battle for the mind is between the Christian reconstruction movement, which alone among Protestant groups takes seriously the law of God, and everyone else. - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 17:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? "if ever a continent of covenant-breakers deserved this attribution (extermination), the "native Americans" did." PopeGary North (comments added) Pope Gary North "The long-term goal of Christians in politics
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Thanks for the footnote confirming John's point. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 10:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The history of public education is a little more complicated than this. I think the more forceful argument was making education available to those who were not wealthy. The non-sectarian nature of it came in because the originators, men like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Horace Mann, etc., were Deists and Unitarian, along with the fact that the U.S. was a melting pot of various religious groups. One simply cannot offer public education for all without setting aside the individual religious beliefs and focusing upon the knowledge that was more common among the different religious sects. What many people do not realize is that the concept of schools came from Christianity. Almost all the institutions of learning first came about through the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Calvinists, thePuritans, etc. Interestingly, non-Christian education never materialized until everyone was forced to pay for it through taxation, through the efforts of menlike Horace Mann. Mann converted from Calvinism to the Unitarian church. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Public education was first offered as an alternaive to Christian education. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science' reflects neither. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she should teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it,and its place in thehistory of science and religion. Isn't it strange how science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation science being dealt with in the same way? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolutio
Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion
I read his father-in-law's 'Institutes of Biblical Law' (RJR). I read some of North's books. I followed him during the Y2K controversy through his appearances on 'Coast to Coast' with Art Bell. I taped and distributed those shows. (MORE DIRECT ANSWER: I am indeed familiar with the theonomist approach!) Having said that, I'd say that the similarity might be more in tone though some content as well, David. - Original Message - From: David Miller To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 10:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion I have seen NOBODY on TruthTalk express the theology of Gary North. You guys sound to me like the way you hearJudy talking authoritatively about Torrance. :-) It is obvious that you do not understand the theology of North and others on TruthTalk. David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion You certainly have! (see Iz, Judy, Kevin David) Stage direction: The word 'certainly' should be spoken so as to provide the same emphasis/tone that 'Ollie' had when saying 'here's another fine mess you've gotten me into, Stanley...' - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 09:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion I have never heard of Gary North, but I see his theology in much that has been written on TT. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Funny, I would've thought that you and Gary would be best buds. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Dominion Bible N Sword! Here are some interesting quotes from Calvinist Gary North (Reformed Catholic Taliban) This is what happens when one thinks they are a Jew, they actually have joined themselves to the synogogue of Satan. "The fifth and by far the most important reason is that stoning is literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock literally a means of crushing the murderer's head by means of a rock, which is symbolic of God. This is analogous to the crushing of the head of the serpent in Genesis 3:15. This symbolism testifies to the final victory of God over all the hosts of Satan. Stoning is therefore integral to the commandment against murder. Gary North The question eventually must be raised: Is it a criminal offense to take the name of the Lord in vain? When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime (Ex. 21:17). The son or daughter is under the lawful jurisdiction of the family. The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death. Clearly, cursing God (blasphemy) is a comparable crime, and is therefore a capital crime (Lev. 24:16). Gary New Geneva North The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel. Gary (death to NON Paedobaptists) North written from New Geneva Nevertheless, this one fact should be apparent: turning the other cheek is a bribe. It is a valid form of action for only so long as the Christian is impotent politically or militarily. Gary North Satan cannot win. Why not? Because he has denied God's sovereignty and disobeyed God's law. But Moses was told explicitly, God's blessings come only from obedience. Satan will not win because he has abandoned God's tool of dominion, biblical law. Gary North (sounds CALVINistic to me)There is only one Bride; God is not a bigamist. He took no gentile wife under the Old Covenant, and He will not accept a pale imitation of Old Covenant Israel - modern Judaism - as His wife in the future. Gary "we are the replacement" North
Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march
Kevin:It's both I totally agree with your critique. I also 'see' some of that which I critiqued in you. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 12:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march First you accuse me of being Gary North and then you tell me you agree with my critique of his philosophy? (see your post below) Which is it Lance? I do not understand such behavior it seems irrational to me. I absolutely am not a ROMAN Papist. Seems to me the Canadian Gov't is on a witch hunt the likes of MccarthyISM. The State of Canada has become the Potentate on a hunt for illegal thoughts and will enFORCE by threat of law and public censure. Only diff McCarthy was right the US had been infiltrated! The only force I believe in is the Force of God's words. You have the right to believe anything you want and I have the right to violently disagree with words NO SWORDS! --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line no matter who asks? So, Kevin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you do what you do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little wonder that SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake or, anywhere else! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march Are you talking to me, Gary North? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments. These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing. Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you focus (signage wise and all). - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march The Canadian Guanatamo Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance! Are you hating an identifiable group? And your comments on FUNDIES have hurt me, I understand it as an attack on me multiple groups of my friends. ; ) Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? Justice in Canaduh http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/ passed his second year of incarceration without charge Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know all the evidence against him. Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related Canadian Human Rights Commission The truth in some absolute sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social context in which the message is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood by the recipient. Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't look now but Canada is changing - Group Think Gary North would be proud of you folks. He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded! Robert Martin, professor of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario Canada now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not tolerated. Be careful there have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts! You Can't Say That Canadian thought police on the march. By David E. Bernstein I've had the good fortune of spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of expression is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, Look at what's happening in Canada. If we don't watch out, we're next. The decline of freedom of expression in Canada began with seemingly minor and understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Speaking for myself, I do not think creation(ism)
should be taught in schools.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 24, 2006 16:14
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism
You didnt answer the
question.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:41
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creationism
Linda, I believe that de-evolution is a much stronger
force than evolution. I believe that natural selection only works when a
mutation creates not only the change , itself, but a population with the same
mutation and a reproductive proclivity that prevents the unique from being
absorbed BACK into the general population. Evenan old earth
belief,IMO,does not present enough time for evolution
to have occurred at the levels claimed by its believers. And
theistic evolution is only a form of creationism -- God
manipulating growth and change via a process. Micro -
yes. Macro - no.
I believe that the "eternity of God" is
philosophically preferable to the eternity of matter (in whatever form ) and
motion (of elementary particles). While at Cal Davis, my two sons
had to deal with a radical andatheistic biology prof.
These were some of the points I gave them. They used them in
class.They semed to work.
Do I want creationism forced into the curriculum
of our schools. NO. Who would teach it? What
brand of creationism would be taught? And how do you teach it
without a knowledge of and the use of the Bible? I
mean -- isn't that the point of creationism? The BIBLE says
this BUT science says something else? IMO, there simply is no way
such a concept could be implemented.
jd
-- Original message --
From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you
thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD?
izzy -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all
you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with
RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
either.- Original Message -
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent:
March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on
Creation ism The CNN report: Asked if
creationism should be taught in schools, Williams
said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
So how have I mischaracterized him?
David Miller
- Original Message - From:
"Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize
both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you
will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've
bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you
and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be
tri ple yikes) - Original Message -
From: "David
Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Lance wrote: If
Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a
'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm
sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who
have submitted unto Jesus Christ as
their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote:
He is a brother in Christ who believes
differently than you on some matters.
Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes
you what I say. g t; He is not a liberal
loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was
offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement,
assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a
brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or
clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If
he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to
suppor
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Are you aware (seriously) that for a lengthy period people believed God's Word AND believe in a geocentric universe? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Fortunately we comprehend the truth since we believe Gods Word. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:30 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric if you like. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Im so thankful that my 4 grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the lefties took over?) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. . - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the words? Probably got it comin'. Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. creationism) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools. That's all that's left. Pathetic IMO. izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Still no. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD? izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools either. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, Williams said: I don't think it should, actually. No, no. So how have I mischaracterized him? David Miller - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped, David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe, Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple yikes) - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
You understood what was written, Judy. People think you pretty much don't 'get' anything that's written on TT. I believe you do 'get' the odd bit. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 15:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Well what are you about Lance Muir Are you doing what God has called someone else to do? Are you criticizing what you think someone else is doing that God didn't tell them to do? Are you hearing God as to what he wants you to do? How do you know you are hearing God since noone can know truth according to you? On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:06:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Operative _expression_ 'what they believe God has called them to do'? From: Judy Taylor Let me get this straight JD. By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe Genesis as it is written - Right?? PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat Robertsons of this world? You may have to eat those words one day because both are busy about what they believe God has called them to do and who are you to denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 theological expert... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age student. The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will rage. In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 15:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baloney. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is BadBut Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened; 8just as it is written, "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.&
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz would
say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your electronic concordance so
as to cite every contra verse you could locate.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?
There you go again - as is your custom. You make
these great outlandish accusations
and then when asked for evidence you shrink back and
put it all off on someone else.
There has got to be a psychological term for ppl like
you, I know what my husband
would say - something about bull dog mouth and
humming bird tail
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I watched whilst the two of you shot down the
best of the 'layer-outers'.
Close mindedness is the operative _expression_.
Sad, sad, sad!
From: Judy Taylor
Your observations are delusions Lance; I have
learned much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not negate
the reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this insight
that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out.
judyt
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of
God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown
anything on TT by anyone. I've observed
this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this.
From: Judy
Taylor
If this were so Lance it would behoove you
who are in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we might
be corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek comments
that are often snide along with
Personal shots and
put downs. So what is your problem??
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the
day in Genesis literal or figurative?
David:My interpretation of what you just said:
'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've
tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's)
way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at
all!
Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm
'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two
of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only
SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the
teaching of Scripture overlap.
The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of
Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong vis a
vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of you, on
some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth degree!!
- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis
literal or figurative?
Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between
Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been
trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was
here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it.
You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture
is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to
Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart
from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they
depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and
the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why
can't you see that? David
Miller ----- Original Message -
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or
figurative? David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the
light of 'orthodox' thought concerning the Triune nature of
God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresy that
is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD
but, that does not cha
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Or, as on TT, theologically unknowing while spiritually alive. This is much more the case. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 18:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism So true, so true KD On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:54:02 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A man may be Theologically knowing while spiritually DEAD.Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me get this straight JD. By Rad Fundies you are talking about people who believe Genesis as it is written - Right?? PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's and the Pat Robertsons of this world? You may have to eat those words one day because both are busy about what they believe God has called them to do and who are you to denigrate another man's servant. O thou Romans 14 theological expert... On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I suppose, but I must say something here -- the conflict (speaking for myself) is not between science and religion. It is between religion and fundamentalism (radical fundamentalism, if you will.) Knowing that the first step will not be last step for Rad Fundies, I prefer to deal with the situation outside the school setting. The church has done an excellent job in this regard with the High School population -- but it has forsaken the University campus' without a fight. Truth will win out if compared to that which has no bearings. The failure, here, is with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age population. It -- religion - simply does not need to be in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the college age student. The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it does with the unwanted-infant population. If the church could place 1.4 million newborns each year -- abortion would be EASILY defeated. But , as long as we think that after birth,it is all up to the infant, well, the battle will rage. In short -- the fundies (and not they alone) do not want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost undeniable. I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this world running anything of an evangelistic nature. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lance wrote: If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Lance wrote: He is a brother in Christ who believes differently than you on some matters. Now, if that makes him what you say then, that makes you what I say. He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but not from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. David Miller -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have
Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris
Citing someone's CV makes them unembarrassing? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Henry Morris I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. What exactly are you embarrassed about? Henry Morris B.S., with honors in civil engineering, Rice University, Houston, TX, 1939 Hydraulic Engineering M.S., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1948 Ph.D., University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN, 1950 LL.D Litt.D Faculty member at Rice University (1942-46), University of Minnesota (1946-51), University of Southwestern Louisiana (1951-56) and Southern Illinois University (1956-57) Former head of the Department of Civil Engineering at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (1957-1970) Author of over 45 books regarding Creation-Evolution David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: I hate it when theologians are embarrassed of giving glory to the Creator in school.Lance wrote: You do KNOW, do you not David, that that's NOT the source of his embarrassment? Rowan Williams is not embarrassed concerning our Lord ANYWHERE. He, not unlike many, are embarrassed over believers turning non-issues into 'issues'. (i.e. creationISM)There is more to this issue that this. Is he embarrassed of certain brands of creationism? Of course. I am too. I'm embarrassed of Henry Morris and that whole ICR group over there. At the same time, they serve a purpose in what they do, and we should not revolt to them so much that we accept the atheistic and scientific agenda of removing all references to the Creator from our public schools.You say it is a NON-ISSUE? I consider such a statement ignorant in the extreme. Deceptive to the core. There is one thing that the ICR group has illustrated, and that is that this is an issue.I talked with a student a few months ago, John Boyles, just before he was elected to be President of Student Government at the University of Florida. I talked with him about the persecution my daughter is undergoing at UF just because she believes the Bible that homosexual behavior is sinful. He confided to me that he applied for a Rhodes scholarship to study theology at Oxford. He was turned down because he argued in his oral examination / interview that the idea of Intelligent Design should be considered in the classroom. If this was a non-issue, these professors of theology would have tolerated his creationist convictions. I wish I could convey to you the grief this man carried over his own religious persecution by those who would not have him study theology because he believed intelligent design theories should be considered in school.I truly believe that these modern theologians assume that scientists are well studied in origins and are deeply convicted about the truth of evolutionary processes and the absurdity of the teaching of Genesis. When the truth comes out, they will be the ones who will be greatly embarrassed in the day of our Lord. The philosopher Thomas Khun was right in how he depicted the way science really operates. These theologians who object to Creationist models of origins should pay attention to him just a little bit more.David Miller--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
What gender are you when offering up an opinion? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:15 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? The STANDARD of ORTHODOXY in RW's eyes as shown in his own words is The opinions of Men in the consensus of his churchDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther, if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodoxy, nor do we call upon others to repent if they depart from Orthodoxy. The standard of Orthodoxy and the standard of the Bible are two different things. Why can't you see that?David Miller- Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:34 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?David:'PROVEN'? 'ERROR' In the light of 'orthodox' thought concerning theTriune nature of God David, it is an heresy. It'd appear to be an heresythat is a part of YOUR BELIEVE CONCERNING THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD but, thatdoes not change what it is in this context.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: March 21, 2006 13:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? Excuse me, John, but nobody has proven that modalism is an error, so how can you use the word repent in regards to this? Do you really think it is a sin for someone to think modalism is useful in understanding the Godhead? David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? In short, Modalism !! Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. REPENT -- HURRY !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GOD IS ONE; JESUS SAID "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" More accurately, one person in three manifestations On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:27:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS From: ShieldsFamily Unity in Diversity. Fatness in Skinniness. Ugliness in Beauty. Dumbness in Intelligence. Wisdom in Nonsense. Jibberish in Eloquence. iz If your idea were so JD then Jesus would have prayed "make them "unity in diversity" just as we are ... I see that nowhere in scripture. Jesus said if someone had seen him they had seen the Father because he did only what he first saw the Father do and he said only what he first heard from the Father. This is the kind of unity he was praying about JD. Unifying around rebellion is what the end times "harlot church" is all about. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:11:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We shall be one as He and the Father are one, someday, Judy. Right now, unity inspite of diversity is all we've got. Because you and I are not of the same Christ does not mean that unity in diversity does not exist. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Agreed! I to hate all the isms and all the ologies. In fact I don't see why we can not lay them aside so that we may recognize the faith once delivered to the saints and "walk in Truth" or reality. Jesus was not referring to any "Unity in diversity" in John 17. He prayed they would be One as He and the Father are One Is "Unity in diversity" how you see the Godhead or "Trinity?" JD On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:33:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sectarianism! Amen! Have you (of course you have) taken note of those who so identify others as sectarians while their group (sect) is thus reflective of a repristinated gospel. They seem themselves as 'recovering' the truth. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It has occurred to me that legalism, although unattractive as it is, is not my real complaint. Henceforth and forever more, I will be opposed to sectarianism. The legal content of the sectarian is often different -- but the sectarian is the same ki
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
I offer up as evidence Kevin, Judy, David, Dean and Iz.Say n'more, say n'more, a nod's as good as a wink. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad And we have been been here so long and you have offered WHAT EVIDENCE? O I forgot Lances BASELESS ASSERTIONS qualify as Evidence.Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David:It's because this is that which passes for evidence with such as yourself. I've seen that for a long time.- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: March 22, 2006 10:26Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Sadly, Lance, you do not see that you are the one who offers only a "harumph." Kevin presented actual evidence for consideration. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad David/Kevin: 'Good point'? As I said recently to David concerning theology/science/logic; should you respond only with 'harumph' in the face of mounting evidence then, you ought to be speaking only with those who hold your views on things. This is a 'cultish' approach and, is inherently dangerous. - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 21, 2006 17:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad ROTFLOL. Good point, Kevin. David Miller - Original Message - From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah,
Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!
Are you now or, have you ever been a member
of.?Senator McCarthy lives! See 'Good Night and Good Luck'..
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 16:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!
STILL WAITING
Do you support books in Canadian Libraries that encourage Suicide
Bombing?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite
of all the evidence.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!
After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little
aggitated.
Please provide one quote:
Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete
annihilation of an Arab state
Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead
arabs
Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory
above their heads
Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah
thinks of them
where Jews torture muslims
Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing
bombing muslims
Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims
The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on
it's face!
Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little
intimidating! LOL
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
Suicide bombing endorsed in kids
book recommended by Canadian libraries
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave,
mutilated and burnt yesterday.
In addition to supporting WMD
thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN
Libraries???
Are these Jewish BOYS
Then again Who is oppressing who?
They oppress their own people!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
Turning a blind eye to child suicide
bombers - Where's the outrage over the
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Even
at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!-
Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent:
March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from
Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is
Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!!
(Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin
Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often
by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel
in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare
Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare
anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of
one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the
political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13
million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were
in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs,
who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims
worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH
too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for
disarmament of David before he meets Goliath!
LOL --- Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just
like you and I, Linda, John has gone on
Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!
Only because you have a short memory.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 16:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!
HEY I will HIGH FIVE ya on that! ; )David
Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There
were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD. No, it was not a lot
of backslapping.David Miller- Original Message -
From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!Hmm curiouser
curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD?
As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be
one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original Message
- From: David MillerTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
March 22, 2006 13:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard
opresses Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the
"harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller-
Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24
PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses
Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little
aggitated.Please provide one quote:Where a Jew calls an arab a
Rat Dog or verminWhere a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the
complete annihilation of an Arab stateWhere the Jews through a party
while dancing on the bodies of dead arabsWhere Jews carry the entrails
of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their headsWhere a jew
drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of
themwhere Jews torture muslimsShow me a picture of a Jew dressed up
as a Human bomb!Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos
) endorsing bombing muslimsShow me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing
muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT -
Ludicrous on it's face!Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does
look a little intimidating!
LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.phpSuicide bombing
endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian
librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/postsThe
body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists
blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and
burnt yesterday.In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do
you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN
Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYSThen again Who
is oppressing who?They oppress their own
people!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/Turning a blind eye to
child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the Palestinians'
mistreatment of children?ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot
MISHAP?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Even at this
late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on someoccasions
(see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message
- From: "ShieldsFamily"To:Sent: March 21, 2006
21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
Purim2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses
its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original
Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is
Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by
believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.
ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you
pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography
lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in
RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES
her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare
Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone
believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one
percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political
dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in
the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed
for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties
to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID
OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like
the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets
Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir
wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda,
Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!
Yes, yes, yes (breaks dow in tears - sissy that he
is) put the cuffs on me as I now see that I support all of these with my tax
dollars. But, but, but..I then scratch my chin while thinking of that which our
neighbour to the south actually does with actual weapons of mass destruction,
with the foreign policy, through it's intelligence agencies on it's own
citizenry and on...Yikes! IT IS AN EVIL EMPIRE THAT WILL BE JUDGED!
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 16:43
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!
Lance says Hmm curiouser
curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD? As
John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand
backslapping 'hail fellow well met'
Ba Da Boom
Ba Da Bing
Thats all folks still no evidence!
Do you support "Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book
recommended by Canadian libraries" ?
Personal funding of WMD Weapons of
Mass Destruction with your own Retirement funds?
Turning a blind eye?
Hmmmm!
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hmm curiouser curiouserBehind
the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD? As John, the good
bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping
'hail fellow well met'
- Original Message -
From:
David
Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced
sheppard opresses Giant!
Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in
spite of all the evidence.
David Miller
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy
faced sheppard opresses Giant!
After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little
aggitated.
Please provide one quote:
Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin
Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete
annihilation of an Arab state
Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead
arabs
Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory
above their heads
Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what
Jehovah thinks of them
where Jews torture muslims
Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!
Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing
bombing muslims
Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims
The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on
it's face!
Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little
intimidating! LOL
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php
Suicide bombing endorsed in kids
book recommended by Canadian libraries
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts
The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave,
mutilated and burnt yesterday.
In addition to supporting
WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in
CANADIAN Libraries???
Are these Jewish
BOYS
Then again Who is oppressing who?
They oppress their own people!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/
Turning a blind eye to child suicide
bombers - Where's the outrage over the
Palestinians' mistreatment of children?
ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot
MISHAP?
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Even
at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion),
OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From:
"ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: March 21, 2006
21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel
Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But
Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!)
iz -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin
Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special
Message f
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
More time for BSF, Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I don't believe so Lance. I do believe she has her own ideas - that she is faithful where God has her and that she is weary of the constant carping and criticism that one must endure on this list. When I came it wasn't like this but this is what it has become. On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:00:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy. From: Judy Taylor I think she adjusts and adapts to theperceived depth of those she is addressing Lance On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You're soo deep, Iz.\ From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baloney. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lance Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3"Lord, (G)
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Spoken like a true studen of RJR. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity to introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. David Miller Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
IFF David had 'nukes' (news flash - he does) then,
yes.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:26
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?
David Oppresses Goliath!
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Somone would post a perceptive email
then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your
electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could
locate.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day
in Genesis literal or figurative?
There you go again - as is your custom. You make
these great outlandish accusations
and then when asked for evidence you shrink back
and put it all off on someone else.
There has got to be a psychological term for ppl
like you, I know what my husband
would say - something about bull dog mouth and
humming bird tail
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I watched whilst the two of you shot down
the best of the 'layer-outers'.
Close mindedness is the operative
_expression_. Sad, sad, sad!
From: Judy
Taylor
Your observations are delusions Lance; I have
learned much during my time on TT
Just because you have no insight does not
negate the reality. Nor does it let you off
the hook. If you have all of this
insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your
responsibility to lay it out.
judyt
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Judy:Short of intervention by the
Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown
anything on TT by anyone. I've observed
this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with
this.
From: Judy Taylor
If this were so Lance it would behoove
you who are in the "know" to lay it
out clearly and succinctly so that we
might be corrected. So far I have not
seen anything but tongue in cheek
comments that are often snide along with
Personal shots
and put downs. So what is your problem??
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is
the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
David:My interpretation of what you just said:
'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've
tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our
(God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not
see at all!
Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make!
I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES
the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES
and only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox'
and the teaching of Scripture overlap.
The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching
of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you are wrong
vis a vis both Scripture'steaching and orthodoxy. The two of
you, on some occasions, are presumptuousto the nth
degree!!
- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
March 22, 2006 08:43Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in
Genesis literal or figurative?
Lance, you have never been able to distinguish between
Orthodoxy and the teaching of Scripture. Judy has
been trying so hard to get you to see it. Martin Luther,
if he was here, would be trying so hard to get you to see
it. You just don't get it. Orthodoxy and the
teaching of Scripture is not the same thing. We
repent if we walk contrary to Scripture. We do not
necessarily repent if we depart from Orthodo
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad You're soo deep, Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Baloney. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE. 4But what is the divine response to him? (H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL. 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice. 6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity to introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. David Miller Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Re: [TruthTalk] Trailer of a new movie: Freedom to Fascism
There is no 'mark of the beast', Marlin. Wait just a sec...Tim LaHay does have a new book coming out in June (June 6.06...is that 666?) I take it all back. If Tim says it. --- Original Message - From: Marlin halverson Sent: March 22, 2006 21:49 Subject: [TruthTalk] Trailer of a new movie: Freedom to Fascism Some of the contentis about taxes, but there are prophetic ramifications to buying and selling and the mark of the beast. There are three media players to choose from for the preview. http://www.freedomtofascism.com/w_high.html
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
Are they indeed? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad You're soo deep, Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Baloney. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind of narrowness that I disregard. jd -- Original message -- From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church; they will be become believers. You say you don't dislike Jews more than any other unbelievers. It is obvious to me that you do. Your stereotypes and slurs are very revealing. Izzy Romans 11 Israel Is Not Cast Away 1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
Is it just possible that we may be going out on a note of agreement, Judy? 'One Creator'! Amen! 'believe what is written as is' Amen once again as I most certainly do. (flee) darkness and/or presumption! That makes for three Amen's, Judy. Now what can we do to convince David Miller and Kevin about that which we (you and I) believe? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism But only One Creator and only one kind who believe what is written as is. Take your pick. I see no point in running after more darkness and/or presumption. On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:02:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor. From: Judy Taylor Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical
Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!
Preach it bro! (a modest tribute (bro) to someone who appears trapped in the 60's musically but, not theologically) - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant! Only because you have a short understanding as in ; ) Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only because you have a short memory. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 16:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant! HEY I will HIGH FIVE ya on that! ; )David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There were many years of TruthTalk without Lance and JD. No, it was not a lot of backslapping.David Miller- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:27 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!Hmm curiouser curiouserBehind the 'Looking Glass' would one encounter DM KD? As John, the good bishop said, without the you-know-who's on TT it'd be one grand backslapping 'hail fellow well met'- Original Message - From: David MillerTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 22, 2006 13:10Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!Excellent point again, Kevin. Stand by for the "harumph" in spite of all the evidence.David Miller- Original Message - From: Kevin DeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:24 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.Please provide one quote:Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or verminWhere a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete annihilation of an Arab stateWhere the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead arabsWhere Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory above their headsWhere a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah thinks of themwhere Jews torture muslimsShow me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing bombing muslimsShow me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslimsThe Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on it's face!Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating! LOLhttp://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.phpSuicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian librarieshttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/postsThe body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday.In addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???Are these Jewish BOYSThen again Who is oppressing who?They oppress their own people!http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the outrage over the Palestinians' mistreatment of children?ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on someoccasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!- Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily"To:Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her popul
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
Apparently not, Linda. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:47 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Apparently so, Lance. In the past I have often attempted to reason with you and your friends, as Judy and David and Kevin still do, with facts and reasonable discussion. But instead of responding with further discussion, one is only met with belittling, derision and mocking. Anything that comes from faith and the heart, from the Bible or the Holy Spirit is scorned. That type of response is what eventually causes the Lord to turn a person over to their sin until they have had their fill of it. There comes a time when Believers should no longer strive with scoffers. Matthew 7:6 Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. One can only wait with an open heart for the prodigals to repent and return. That is why I look forward to David closing TruthTalk, as it currently seems to provide too much of a forum for men to sin and bring judgment upon themselves. I hope one day to embrace each and every one of you on the other side, where we will all be adoring Jesus together. Matthew 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Are they indeed? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad You're soo deep, Iz. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Baloney. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel expansionist! And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Is KD a pseudonym for Gary North? Have you finally come out of hiding after the Y2K fiasco? I do believe that were we to remove the hoods from some on TT we would see that which underlies the hatred that you spread throughout the mid-east and, elsewhere. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism AGAIN you show your Short Comprehension I am NOT a REFORMED CATHOLIC. wrong slot Lance, better take it to your friends for a consensus What do you know of RJR? Not as much as you think, I suppose. He is NOT a Fundamentalist Like Papa like son, bring out the stake Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Spoken like a true studen of RJR. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 21:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Let's have them Teach Dominion Theology in school ; )[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it can. What a shame that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity to introduce the Creator to others. In case you did not notice,the fundamentalists are notcausing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden inschools. It is the liberal loonies like thisArchbishop of Canterbury who are doing this. David Miller Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. P
Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
Nice attempt to CYA Kevin but, I'd suggest to rent 'The Control Room' as a rebuttal. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 07:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? NEWS FLASH! http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL Do you have a similar one citing Jews saying similar? Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IFF David had 'nukes' (news flash - he does) then, yes. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David Oppresses Goliath! Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somone would post a perceptive email then, Iz would say 'Bob's your uncle' while you would pull out your electronic concordance so as to cite every contra verse you could locate. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 22, 2006 17:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? There you go again - as is your custom. You make these great outlandish accusations and then when asked for evidence you shrink back and put it all off on someone else. There has got to be a psychological term for ppl like you, I know what my husband would say - something about bull dog mouth and humming bird tail On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I watched whilst the two of you shot down the best of the 'layer-outers'. Close mindedness is the operative _expression_. Sad, sad, sad! From: Judy Taylor Your observations are delusions Lance; I have learned much during my time on TT Just because you have no insight does not negate the reality. Nor does it let you off the hook. If you have all of this insight that DavidM and myself lack then it is your responsibility to lay it out. judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:39:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Short of intervention by the Spirit of God, I deem it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be shown anything on TT by anyone. I've observed this over my entire stint on TT. Of course you'll disagree with this. From: Judy Taylor If this were so Lance it would behoove you who are in the "know" to lay it out clearly and succinctly so that we might be corrected. So far I have not seen anything but tongue in cheek comments that are often snide along with Personal shots and put downs. So what is your problem?? From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:57 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative? David:My interpretation of what you just said: 'Lance:Judy and I see this matter as it should be seen. We've tried so hardto get you to come around to see things our (God's) way. You do not see themour (God's) way so, you do not see at all! Of course, David, I'm aware of the distinction you two make! I'm 'thick'but, not that 'thick".SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES the two of you apprehendTHE TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE. SOMETIMES and only SOMETIMES that which is spokenof as being 'orthodox' and the teaching of Scripture overlap. The two of you, David. often MISAPPREHEND the actual teaching of Scripture!!This is sometimes why the two of you
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
Oh, I guess he does KNOW, Judy. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 08:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism What in the hell do you think I have been talking about? You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly. I am not a "big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family. In fact, I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough time for evolution to have worked it's wonders.That doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist. But, now, it is I who digresses. My point? If the church had not surrendered its college ageyoung people to the Unisersity system, we would not need this discussion. The church is not in the High School and our senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB -- AS A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD --- and I am not just talking about "preaching to the lost." Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching. Most ofHis day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it being coopted by the fundies -- go for it. But I doubt that it
Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
Were someone to retrieve all of the 'Shields family' posts then, place them alongside the knpraise' posts with an eye to genuine content.case closed! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 08:32 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Yet, how much time did you spend doing the same to others !!?? Give me a break. jd -- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.) - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad You're soo deep, Iz. - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Baloney. - Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES! - Original Message - From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad ; But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor. ROTFL That is Ludicrous on the face of it. Where did you pick this whopper up? Perhaps you need a Geography lesson! http://www.masada2000.org/ geography.html Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California, SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5 million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide? I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of David before he meets Goliath! LOL --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly, Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
Re: [TruthTalk] Thinking..............
Began drinking heavily Used my parent's influence to squeeze into Yale Party, party, party Used more parental influence to get into big oil Got wealthy, got out before the collapse Yet more influence to wangle my way into baseball Noticed that I could no long think Switched to the Republican party the rest is history You're incredulous? Watch Jon Stewart, Jay Leno and David Letterman's clips of me. Nuff said - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 23, 2006 09:09 Subject: [TruthTalk] Thinking.. Subject: FW: Thinking.. It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone -- to relax, I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time. That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's. I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself. I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, What is it exactly we are doing here? One day the boss called me in. He said, Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job. This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. Honey, I confessed, I've been thinking... I know you've been thinking, she said, and I want a divorce! But Honey, surely it's not that serious. It is serious, she said, lower lip aquiver. You think as much as college professors, and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money! That's a faulty syllogism, I said impatiently. She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama. I'm going to the library, I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors... They didn't open! The library was closed! To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life? it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinker's Anonymous poster. Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was Porky's. Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me. Today, I registered to vote as a Democrat. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism
'helter skelter' h? Perhaps appropriate. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 10:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on Creationism With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated below. Amen. And, again, a foot in the door would only allow the warring hordes (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter skelter -- yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very same time, claiming victory for the Right Side. Scary. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your honor. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 23, 2006 06:44 Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism Why advocate teaching what you don't know JD? As has already been noted "Only when we prove evolution do we need to concern ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism. Evidence that this level of proof has not been achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned Darwinism because they became convinced that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it. So why would you want to warp young minds with useless information that is not proven? judyt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school systemsand you are talking about religious people!!! Amazing Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major school system I am sure we can find enough fundy ideas to go around. That way , you would have to worryabout consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. but you and Kev will be happy. CONSENSUS BE DAMNED. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I surmised as much JD; my point being that religious ppl have many and varied points of view about anything and everything and this is no measure by which to gauge what is needful or true. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy? WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM -- HUH ??? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] So? There isn't a single view of the whole church that is agreed upon by the whole church either. What does that prove? judyt On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do. I know this -- there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the whole church. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The world in which we live would reject any mention of God in the evolutionary process, IMO. But creationism in the schools? Could that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical fundamentalist take-over of the culture? ROTFLOL. I sure hope youwere being facetious on purpose. John wrote: But to allow a mere statement that suggests God is somehow in control as the Creator(?) If this could be presented into the secular system of education without it bein
