[twitter-dev] Is anyone aware of how long xAuth approvals (by Twitter) are taking?
I have asked this question once, but I did not see it posted. Is anyone aware of how long approval requests to api@ are taking recently? I requested it twice last week (once via email and once via support ticket cos the ticket # the email issued back "could not be found")... I have received no response. Is there anyone out there that can help? Thanks! Jann Gobble MouseAddict
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: How long does it take to get approved with xAuth?
The requirement for users to go from app to browser to app is untenable for many of my users. It is a major change to go from app to Safari and back to app. Many users actually think that it the app is less secure (rightly or wrongly) because they have to exit it -- and go to the web -- in order to login. Indeed, many of them do not understand the permissions that the oAuth system asks for when they get sent to the Twitter page. Unfortunately with a phone like the iPhone you are dealing with many many users who are new to mobile devices in general and just wish to use twitter from within their favorite apps without the complications. Would you say that oAuth is good enough for Twitterific or Chirpie, Tweetie? Well, they are using xAuth. All I wish to do is to provide my users with identical (and what they see is easy -- and safe) method of using Twitter. xAuth provides this. oAuth does not. Many users prefer a seamless experience to that of adopting a protocol that causes such a jarring user experience -- regardless of the perceived safety of oAuth over xAuth. Safety of one over the other comes down to how much you trust the app. It no longer comes down to how much you trust Basic Auth. I would have no problem if there was an even playing field where we could all have our app "signatures" in the Tweet -- and all have the same user experience where logins and permissions are concerned. This is not the case. Thanks for your input, though. Jann On May 30, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Rich wrote: > You don't need xAuth to develop an iPhone app, oAuth workflow works > just fine. > > Indeed I though xAuth was designed for clients without a decent mobile > browser which isn't the case on the iPhone > > On May 29, 2:08 am, Jann wrote: >> I sent an email in to api@ this week. Got back a case # which, when >> clicked, requires me to login. It then tells me that the case #1008949does >> not exist. >> >> So, I logged in under the twitter account that created the app and >> created another ticket. Got another ticket #1009859. I am now >> wondering how long this is supposed to take. (if the first one is >> invalid, then my new support case is now over 900 cases farther down >> in the queue. :( >> >> Does anyone have any ideas? I have seen (when searching on google) >> that some people say it takes upwards of a week to get the approval. >> I am stuck however because I cannot even test my iPhone app using this >> method. (I am usinghttp://aralbalkan.com/3133(xAuthTwitterEngine) to >> implement and I can see no method to begin even testing using my own >> account. >> >> Shouldn't there be some way to (at least) test your app using the >> username and password that was used to create the "Application" in >> question? >> >> Please give some insight. Maybe I am missing something stupid. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jann
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: How long does it take to get approved with xAuth?
Okay, please tell me you know that I can create an app with a UIWebView that
will take that password you type in faster than anything.
It is NOT secure. This is my problem with oAuth. The work-arounds cause a
false sense of security. oAuth was NEVER supposed to be used this way. If the
user does not trust the app, they should definitely not trust the developer
that puts a UIWebView in it -- it is too easy to do a man-in-the-middle. oAuth
fits in well with webapps, not iPhone apps.
Anyway, this was all hashed out internally to Twitter -- that is why they came
up with xAuth.
:)
Jann
On May 30, 2010, at 3:50 AM, Rich wrote:
> You don't have to go from app to browser, embed a UIWebView and then
> in
>
> - (BOOL)webView:(UIWebView *)webView shouldStartLoadWithRequest:
> (NSURLRequest *)request navigationType:
> (UIWebViewNavigationType)navigationType {
>
> Look for your callback URL and read the query string and you'll be
> authorised, then just remove the UIWebView and use your application.
> The user never has to leave your app.
>
> Then the user gets MORE security that xAuth because they can see they
> are logging in on Twitter.com and not giving their password to an
> arbitrary application, which could still save their password without
> their knowledge.
>
> On May 30, 8:35 am, Jann Gobble wrote:
>> The requirement for users to go from app to browser to app is untenable for
>> many of my users. It is a major change to go from app to Safari and back to
>> app. Many users actually think that it the app is less secure (rightly or
>> wrongly) because they have to exit it -- and go to the web -- in order to
>> login.
>>
>> Indeed, many of them do not understand the permissions that the oAuth system
>> asks for when they get sent to the Twitter page. Unfortunately with a phone
>> like the iPhone you are dealing with many many users who are new to mobile
>> devices in general and just wish to use twitter from within their favorite
>> apps without the complications.
>>
>> Would you say that oAuth is good enough for Twitterific or Chirpie, Tweetie?
>> Well, they are using xAuth. All I wish to do is to provide my users with
>> identical (and what they see is easy -- and safe) method of using Twitter.
>> xAuth provides this. oAuth does not. Many users prefer a seamless
>> experience to that of adopting a protocol that causes such a jarring user
>> experience -- regardless of the perceived safety of oAuth over xAuth.
>> Safety of one over the other comes down to how much you trust the app. It
>> no longer comes down to how much you trust Basic Auth.
>>
>> I would have no problem if there was an even playing field where we could
>> all have our app "signatures" in the Tweet -- and all have the same user
>> experience where logins and permissions are concerned. This is not the case.
>>
>> Thanks for your input, though.
>>
>> Jann
>>
>> On May 30, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Rich wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> You don't need xAuth to develop an iPhone app, oAuth workflow works
>>> just fine.
>>
>>> Indeed I though xAuth was designed for clients without a decent mobile
>>> browser which isn't the case on the iPhone
>>
>>> On May 29, 2:08 am, Jann wrote:
>>>> I sent an email in to api@ this week. Got back a case # which, when
>>>> clicked, requires me to login. It then tells me that the case
>>>> #1008949does not exist.
>>
>>>> So, I logged in under the twitter account that created the app and
>>>> created another ticket. Got another ticket #1009859. I am now
>>>> wondering how long this is supposed to take. (if the first one is
>>>> invalid, then my new support case is now over 900 cases farther down
>>>> in the queue. :(
>>
>>>> Does anyone have any ideas? I have seen (when searching on google)
>>>> that some people say it takes upwards of a week to get the approval.
>>>> I am stuck however because I cannot even test my iPhone app using this
>>>> method. (I am usinghttp://aralbalkan.com/3133(xAuthTwitterEngine) to
>>>> implement and I can see no method to begin even testing using my own
>>>> account.
>>
>>>> Shouldn't there be some way to (at least) test your app using the
>>>> username and password that was used to create the "Application" in
>>>> question?
>>
>>>> Please give some insight. Maybe I am missing something stupid.
>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>
>>>> Jann
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: How long does it take to get approved with xAuth?
Thanks! For now I have implemented xAuth (even though it does not work) by using examples and what I expect. BUT I have hidden the Twitter button on my app until xAuth is approved and I can fully test. The one thing Twitter does NOT need right now is app developers leaving them in the dust because they make it too hard to implement their protocols. We will see how my user base handles *not* having Twitter along side the other social networks in my app (until I get approved). My guess is that they will choose to post to their FB Wall instead. We will see. Jann On May 30, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Ron wrote: > XAuth is is the right choice for an end-user client app and > satisfactorily resolves the UX issues in client applications that > OAuth creates. Unfortunately, many web-app developers simply don't > know enough about end-user client app development to understand these > UX issues, or why end-user client application trust is neither an > issue that needs addressing nor one that OAuth can (nor even attempts > to) address. > > It shouldn't take more than a week or two to get your authorization > from Twitter to use XAuth if you're applying for a client app. > > On May 30, 1:40 pm, Bernd Stramm wrote: >> On Sun, 30 May 2010 11:14:54 -0700 >> >> >> >> >> >> Abraham Williams <4bra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 11:01, Bernd Stramm >>> wrote: >> The user does trust the app, otherwise they would not be using it. The problem with the scheme of using the app *and* a browser is that the user has to trust *both* of them. >> And if they don't trust the app, why are they using it to post their tweets? >> >>> Trust is not a boolean value. There are levels of it. I trust my >>> mobile browser to not take over my Twitter account but I only trust >>> random new Twitter client to not post spam. If the Twitter client >>> breaks my trust it is easy to revoke access to it. >> >> Is it easy for most users? The authentication token doesn't expire, so >> an application (any application, not just desktop/mobile client) can do >> what it wants for quite a while. >> >> You should be careful with trusting browsers, mobile or otherwise. They >> are very leaky. >> >> And my point remains, when using a browser *and* a standalone client, >> the user trusts both of them. From the point of view of the honest >> application developer, I do not want to assume that another application >> (the browser) which is completely unknown to me, is trustworthy. Hence >> I prefer the solution with the small integrated webview in my >> application. >> >> But also, what do people to with their twitter account that needs >> protecting, other than posting messages and media content? And of >> course giving away great data to the data miners. >> >> A lot of this authentication business misses the easiest intrusion >> vector anyway. People will steal your phone, and have access to >> everything you store on it. Including any authentication for serious >> business. Nevermind trusting the standalone app or the browser, the >> entire system is easily compromised if its stolen. >> >> -- >> Bernd Stramm >>
Re: [twitter-dev] Twitter Basic Authentication
You must have the new oAuth API in place or your app with no longer work.. Twitter has given the drop-dead date for removal of the Basic Auth privileges for EVERYONE as June 30th. Sorry Jann On May 30, 2010, at 10:41 PM, Sakthi wrote: > Hi, > We are using basic authentication API method in our > application (Which is already in appstore)for twitter login and for > sharing the text...whether it will work fine after june 30th or we > must have to give new update with oAuth API ...please give us guidance > to resolve this issue..
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: How long does it take to get approved with xAuth?
Okay, I think we really need to expand on something...
oAuth was never designed to promote any app developer to bypass the built-in
web browser (from an App) -- (ie: using UIWebView). There are many reasons for
this. If one wanted to steal usernames and passwords, it is VERY easy to
simulate the look and feel of Twitter's login page for oAuth in order to take
the username and password of the person logging in. Indeed, there is nothing
to stop anyone from doing this (directing the user toward their own website),
getting the username and password and -- in the background -- logging the user
into Twitter using oAuth, getting the token and proceeding as normal in their
app. Later (in this scenario) they could do something insidious with the
username/password combo.) Thus oAuth -- used in this manner (in a UIWebView)
bypasses one major reason oAuth was developed. In other words, using the
UIWebview is insecure 'cos the user does not have the built-in notifications
(some would say guarantees -- although I don't see them as guarantees) that a
built-in web browser offers. That is, the UIWebView does not necessarily show
the URL line with the REAL url that the user is being referred to. I can
easily put a UITextField at the top of any UIWebView, put the Twitter URL in
that and displaying a lock symbol somewhere on my UIWebView. This "looks" like
the user is going to the right place but indeed I may be doing a
man-in-the-midle type attack.
The only security offered by oAuth used in this method is that you are
exchanging a token once for each function you are asking Twitter to do. One of
the primary reasons oAuth was developed was to ensure that the app/website
NEVER got access to the user's password. The other was that the
username/password was passed in the URL, thus being logged in many companies
firewalls, filters and sniffers -- not to mention Twitter's own access_logs
(not known -- assumed).
Here is my main gripe: As someone earlier stated: The only danger with
Twitter's password being captured by the app is that you can post as this user
to Twitter and associated sites. The main worry to me is not that someone can
post as me (to Twitter) -- it is that people like my parent may use the same
username/password combo on Twitter that they do on their banking website. BUT
you cannot save people from their own stupidity.
The time for discussing oAuth vs xAuth is over. Twitter has decided -- and in
my opinion they have offered us a valid alternative to oAuth for Apps. xAuth
is here, it is a valid compromise for the UX in Apps and is not allowed for Web
Apps.
That is good enough for me.
Jann
On May 31, 2010, at 2:09 AM, Rich wrote:
>
> I consider it completely the opposite and that the oauth workflow is
> more secure than the xauth one. To me seeing the Twitter website login
> page shows me that only Twitter will see my login information and not
> the client app itself
>
> An xauth workflow the app should only pass it on in exchange for an
> oauth token but there is nothing to stop them harvesting the
> information in the meantime
>
> Running the oauth workflow on the iPhone is not painful and can all be
> done seamlessly from within your app itself. The user won't ben
> confused either if you do it right
>
>
> On May 30, 6:15 pm, Jann Gobble wrote:
>> Okay, please tell me you know that I can create an app with a UIWebView that
>> will take that password you type in faster than anything.
>>
>> It is NOT secure. This is my problem with oAuth. The work-arounds cause a
>> false sense of security. oAuth was NEVER supposed to be used this way. If
>> the user does not trust the app, they should definitely not trust the
>> developer that puts a UIWebView in it -- it is too easy to do a
>> man-in-the-middle. oAuth fits in well with webapps, not iPhone apps.
>>
>> Anyway, this was all hashed out internally to Twitter -- that is why they
>> came up with xAuth.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Jann
>>
>> On May 30, 2010, at 3:50 AM, Rich wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> You don't have to go from app to browser, embed a UIWebView and then
>>> in
>>
>>> - (BOOL)webView:(UIWebView *)webView shouldStartLoadWithRequest:
>>> (NSURLRequest *)request navigationType:
>>> (UIWebViewNavigationType)navigationType {
>>
>>> Look for your callback URL and read the query string and you'll be
>>> authorised, then just remove the UIWebView and use your application.
>>> The user never has to leave your app.
>>
>>> Then the user gets MORE security that xAuth because they can see they
>>> are logging in on Twitter.com and not giving their password to an
>>>
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: How long does it take to get approved with xAuth?
On May 31, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Bernd Stramm wrote: > > In any case Jann, you have convinced me of something I strongly > suspected - I really should get xauth for my application as well. > If I have convinced one person today, I have done my job. I am used to that -- what with being a Mac user for decades. > Be safe, You too! Jann
Re: [twitter-dev] xAuth Permissions
EXACTLY my problem... My original ticket: 1008949 gave the same problem last week--closed or deleted. I ended up logging in using my MouseAddict account and creating a new support ticket (1009858) ...unfortunately it was around 900 tickets AFTER this first one...which makes me think my request will be acted upon MUCH later than I had hoped. My hope is that since I emailed the first request, like they asked, their support system did not correctly hook the resulting ticket into the login for my Twitter account -- thus causing the ticket system's inability to find that ticket. Here's hoping. Jann On Jun 1, 2010, at 6:41 AM, jsleuth wrote: > How long does it typically take Twitter to respond to a request for > xAuth permissions? > > I sent an email to a...@twitter.com with the necessary information. > The auto-response I received from them included a link to my ticket > that didn't work. Actually, the link worked but the page it arrives > at reports that the ticket does not exist. The URL says: > http://twitter.com/?kind=error&message=Failed+to+update+user+with+new+properties:+Email+has+already+been+taken > > Is there a way to verify whether or not my request has been registered > with their system? > > Thanks for you help, > Jeff
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: xAuth Permissions
Really good question! Maybe there should be a diff way to request access, like a separate category in the "why are you contacting us" drop-down on the support ticketing system. Just a thought. J On Jun 1, 2010, at 12:55 PM, jsleuth wrote: > Well played. :-) However, I fear the issue I'm facing is that no > service ticket is being created when I submit my request-- the > twitter ticket system says that I do not have access to request my > ticket (and that it 'may' have been deleted). Is a ticket > automatically created when I send an email to a...@twitter.com (even if > I am told I can't access it and it probably doesn't exist)? Another > way to ask the same question is, can I be confident that twitter will > respond to one of my sent requests or should I keep sending requests > until I successfully create a ticket? > > thx, > Jeff > > On Jun 1, 1:15 pm, Abraham Williams <4bra...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:06, jsleuth wrote: >>> Abraham, is it usually a couple days from when the email is received >>> or from the successful creation of a ticket? >> >> They should both happen within minutes of each other so my answer is yes. >> >> Abraham >> >> -- >> Abraham Williams | Developer for hire |http://abrah.am >> @abraham |http://projects.abrah.am|http://blog.abrah.am >> This email is: [ ] shareable [x] ask first [ ] private.
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: xAuth Permissions
Taylor, I only see the second one. The first: 1008949 is lost in the ether. Again, here is the issue: We email a request to api@ from whatever email address.. A support request confirmation comes back to us with a link that forces us to log in. When we log in, ticket searches are limited only to tickets for that account, with no way to search for tickets from a specific email address. That is my problem with the above ticket. Yes, the second ticket: 1009858 shows up under my login (cos i created it through the support site. Can someone there assign it to the API@ queue? Thanks! Jann On Jun 1, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Taylor Singletary wrote: > Hey Everyone! > > We know there are some issues with tickets right now -- they aren't being > lost, but the conversion to our new version of the help center has not been > without some hiccups. We have a very large backlog of xAuth requests right > now and only very few resources available to process the queue. They'll be > handled as quickly as we can. > > Can any of you see your pending tickets on this page? > http://support.twitter.com/tickets > > Taylor Singletary > Developer Advocate, Twitter > http://twitter.com/episod > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:04 PM, jsleuth wrote: > Yeah, Jann, exactly. Something along those lines would be great. At > least I wouldn't be flooding their inbox with redundant requests out > of concern that my request went into a black hole... > > JS > > On Jun 1, 4:00 pm, Jann Gobble wrote: > > Really good question! > > > > Maybe there should be a diff way to request access, like a separate > > category in the "why are you contacting us" drop-down on the support > > ticketing system. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > J > > > > On Jun 1, 2010, at 12:55 PM, jsleuth wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well played. :-) However, I fear the issue I'm facing is that no > > > service ticket is being created when I submit my request-- the > > > twitter ticket system says that I do not have access to request my > > > ticket (and that it 'may' have been deleted). Is a ticket > > > automatically created when I send an email to a...@twitter.com (even if > > > I am told I can't access it and it probably doesn't exist)? Another > > > way to ask the same question is, can I be confident that twitter will > > > respond to one of my sent requests or should I keep sending requests > > > until I successfully create a ticket? > > > > > thx, > > > Jeff > > > > > On Jun 1, 1:15 pm, Abraham Williams <4bra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:06, jsleuth wrote: > > >>> Abraham, is it usually a couple days from when the email is received > > >>> or from the successful creation of a ticket? > > > > >> They should both happen within minutes of each other so my answer is yes. > > > > >> Abraham > > > > >> -- > > >> Abraham Williams | Developer for hire |http://abrah.am > > >> @abraham |http://projects.abrah.am|http://blog.abrah.am > > >> This email is: [ ] shareable [x] ask first [ ] private. >
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: New attack/Phish going on?
We (at Barracuda Networks) have investigated and blocked both of these domains for our customer base because of the type/number of links we have seen. ...if that means anything to those who are asking. Jann Gobble jgob...@barracuda.com On Jul 12, 2010, at 2:44 PM, @IDisposable wrote: > As further information, supportcenter-twitter.com was registered TODAY > and man-plus.com was registered on the 28th of June... I smell a > phish. > > On Jul 12, 4:40 pm, "@IDisposable" wrote: >> We've seen a huge increase in links coming in for http://*.man-plus.com >> orhttp://supportcenter-twitter.comdomains in the last couple >> hours... Given the name, and the fact that those domains are not >> reliably resolving, I wonder if a Phish is ongoing >> >> Are any Twitter folks or other API users seeing this? >> >> Marchttp://stltweet.com
