Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
snip And at this point, Mark (the original poster) has probably stopped paying attention which is totally my fault. I apologize. /snip I am absolutely paying attention. I hadn't even considered using a 3rd party tool to read the XML. As I said, we're starting at square 1... CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
The xml tools in u2 do allow very easily the extraction of certain elements and attributes from xml files. I have just the one 100 line databasic program, I supply it the path to an xml file, the path to the .ext extraction file, it then returns a dynamic array. Sometimes if you want to go through more than 3 levels of nesting you have to recurs, but you would have to do that anyway for MV data. Like any xml processor the xml underneath has to be valid. If the xml has incorrect structure, a namespace that does not exist, a character set mismatch it will fail , it will fail in php, java, .net, or U2 The guys at u2 did NOT write their own xml parser, they use the libraries from the OS, so on udt on linux, 7.1 used libxml, 7.2 uses libxerces - just the same as php, or java, or the linux xml tools, like xmlwf. So if it fails in u2 it will fail in php. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: 27 January 2012 20:55 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
Symeon is right; the various XML tools in U2 are actually pretty good and the DOM parser is entirely written to standards. The real problem is that the documentation for them is frankly terrible and there is no good overview on which tools should be used in which circumstances. Hmm, sounds like I should post something up to date (now why didn't I keep my mouth shut).. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: 28 January 2012 09:28 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] The xml tools in u2 do allow very easily the extraction of certain elements and attributes from xml files. I have just the one 100 line databasic program, I supply it the path to an xml file, the path to the .ext extraction file, it then returns a dynamic array. Sometimes if you want to go through more than 3 levels of nesting you have to recurs, but you would have to do that anyway for MV data. Like any xml processor the xml underneath has to be valid. If the xml has incorrect structure, a namespace that does not exist, a character set mismatch it will fail , it will fail in php, java, .net, or U2 The guys at u2 did NOT write their own xml parser, they use the libraries from the OS, so on udt on linux, 7.1 used libxml, 7.2 uses libxerces - just the same as php, or java, or the linux xml tools, like xmlwf. So if it fails in u2 it will fail in php. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: 27 January 2012 20:55 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
Well done Brian for volunteering. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: 28 January 2012 12:52 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Symeon is right; the various XML tools in U2 are actually pretty good and the DOM parser is entirely written to standards. The real problem is that the documentation for them is frankly terrible and there is no good overview on which tools should be used in which circumstances. Hmm, sounds like I should post something up to date (now why didn't I keep my mouth shut).. Brian -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: 28 January 2012 09:28 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] The xml tools in u2 do allow very easily the extraction of certain elements and attributes from xml files. I have just the one 100 line databasic program, I supply it the path to an xml file, the path to the .ext extraction file, it then returns a dynamic array. Sometimes if you want to go through more than 3 levels of nesting you have to recurs, but you would have to do that anyway for MV data. Like any xml processor the xml underneath has to be valid. If the xml has incorrect structure, a namespace that does not exist, a character set mismatch it will fail , it will fail in php, java, .net, or U2 The guys at u2 did NOT write their own xml parser, they use the libraries from the OS, so on udt on linux, 7.1 used libxml, 7.2 uses libxerces - just the same as php, or java, or the linux xml tools, like xmlwf. So if it fails in u2 it will fail in php. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: 27 January 2012 20:55 To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
I agree with Brian, the documentation is atrocious. If one follows the examples in the documentation, shouldn't *something *work? But not so with the XDOM stuff. Awful, awful docs. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
Hi Jake, Are these subroutines you could share? Thanks, Charlie Noah On 01-27-2012 3:47 PM, Holt, Jake wrote: I just created a set of subroutines I copy and paste into anything that uses reads or writes XML. Most interfaces don't handle much beyond reading and extracting the element, value and attribute pairs anyway. That is all very easy to achieve without an 'interface' beyond OPEN (or OPENSEQ). Jake -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 2:55 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
From: Symeon Breen The guys at u2 did NOT write their own xml parser, they use the libraries from the OS, so on udt on linux, 7.1 used libxml, 7.2 uses libxerces - just the same as php, or java, or the linux xml tools, like xmlwf. So if it fails in u2 it will fail in php. I had no clue! They did exactly what I've been advocating all along, and what I do with some of my own products. Those libraries are quite competent. For a couple years I've been reacting to the pain of those who couldn't accomplish tasks after they've been through the docs, and I thought it was the software. For this tool I didn't take the time to evaluate the tool myself, feeling I had learned what I needed from the negative commentary here. What a mistake. It seems the issue really is with the documentation for the wrapper and not with the tools themselves. Although it would be interesting to see someone here comment on whether the wrapper is itself a good one. Thanks for that note, Symeon! Humble apologies to the Rocket people working on the XML interface. Now, for the doco people... ;) T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
We use the databasic xml tools directly with reasonable success. The coding is very easy, what you do need to understand is xml, including namespaces character encoding etc. That's is where I have found many a u2 person has fallen over and declared the xml functions too complex. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Hennessey, Mark F. Sent: 26 January 2012 21:15 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4767 - Release Date: 01/26/12 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
I'll admit to my xml ignorance. However, as to not leave you hanging, there were a few articles on IBM developer works about this stuff in addition to the standard U2 manuals. https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis/display/u2tech/XML+for+IBM+U2 In my case, I always had to parse xml under pressure it seemed. And the people sending me the xml never adhered to the standards of DTD's and schemas, because they probably were ignorant too. For example, I would get a stream of xml where all the data was stored in attributes, when it should have been stored in an element probably. They would also send no schema or dtd with it, so therefore I would have had to build my own to make it work with the U2 XML stuff. This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. But anyway, maybe those IBM articles help you out some. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 3:05 AM, Symeon Breen syme...@gmail.com wrote: We use the databasic xml tools directly with reasonable success. The coding is very easy, what you do need to understand is xml, including namespaces character encoding etc. That's is where I have found many a u2 person has fallen over and declared the xml functions too complex. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Hennessey, Mark F. Sent: 26 January 2012 21:15 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4767 - Release Date: 01/26/12 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- John Thompson ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
I wonder how much longer those IBM articles will exist... Are those 'moved' to the Rocket DevZone? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of John Thompson Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:36 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] I'll admit to my xml ignorance. However, as to not leave you hanging, there were a few articles on IBM developer works about this stuff in addition to the standard U2 manuals. https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis/display/u2tech/XML+for+IBM+U2 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
You will not get Universe's XML tools to work on version 10.2. Must be version 10.3 or higher. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Hennessey, Mark F. Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
Ha. That would have been nice of them to put that in the manual, lol. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Bobby Worley bwor...@coburns.com wrote: You will not get Universe's XML tools to work on version 10.2. Must be version 10.3 or higher. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Hennessey, Mark F. Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 3:15 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- John Thompson ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
I probably should have worded things differently. Much of my experience has been in the automotive arena, where I have seen a lot of non-standard things done, and where I have seen a lot of code almost purposely written to make that person indispensable (either that or they were just a kid in the nursery banging on the round hole until the square peg finally went through). And getting them to change that when you are the small guy, and, they are the big guy is not reality. Not that I consider myself above everyone else in that industry (because I have met a lot of intelligent folks too)- I have just seen a lot of code/systems that could have been done better, if patience and some thought had went into it. (This is including working with xml feeds in the automotive industry). So at any rate... In short: If I were to compare for example, php's simple xml tools with U2 xml tools, I would consider the php tool more flexible, and easier to learn. (perhaps tools is a wrong term to use...) http://php.net/manual/en/book.simplexml.php That statement would agree with your statement of using tools outside of MV. That being said, everyone has tools they like, and some companies mandate you use certain tools within a department, etc. So if you have to use U2 xml tools, then by all means. BUT, if you can find another tool (or build one yourself), that is more flexible, easier for others to understand, and gets the job done in a way where its also maintainable by others (i.e. not jamming that square peg in there), then do that. And at this point, Mark (the original poster) has probably stopped paying attention which is totally my fault. I apologize. On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.comwrote: From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- John Thompson
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
From: David Jordan Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. (In my last note here of the day... YAY!) David, we actually do agree. My position has always been that the DBMS vendors need to provide us with connectivity that makes it easy for us to make use of specialized tools. If they were to just do that effectively, then they wouldn't need to keep trying to create their own unique functionality, with varying degrees of success. They could spend more time focusing on the things that only they can do, like making a great DBMS even better. Coincidentally, earlier today I was prompted to make the exact same comment in the QM forum to Martin Phillips. The paragraphs below came from that note. My intent there is on making it easier for us to add value to the DBMS, where above I'm saying Rocket should add connectivity which allows us to connect to outside tools to add value. It's all the same. T = . changes should strive toward facilitating developer independence. In other words, rather than just implementing X for release a.b-c, consider implementing tools which allow others to implement X, and Y, and Z. As you implement X, consider what changes to the underpinnings of X would allow developers in the field to later do Y and Z. Your single development effort will go a lot further as you implement extensibility rather than just features. ... Sure, features are required, but there's always a new feature for which users are going to be dependent on you, and that takes your time from more significant efforts. Your skills (IMHO) should be utilized for making a better database engine, not so much for adding features on top of that engine - though of course there is considerable overlapping area there. And again, I wish other companies also followed this model. I'm reminded of the OO principle, code to the interface, not the implementation. The DBMS needs to be a huge collection of abstract base classes on which we can build, where traditionally we get a steady diet of cool but isolated concrete classes. (That may only make sense to people who have read about design patterns.) = ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
From: John Thompson And yes, you are right about me being un-familiar with all of the details of xml :) But... nothing to do about that except put my head down and work with itusers As with us all, John. Nothing intended by the comment except acknowledgement of one of your prior statements. As you've done on this topic, I much prefer when people express their strengths and weaknesses up front so that we're all on the same page and we can learn and move forward. Compare to people who have no clue, pretend to be experts, and then claim everyone else is wrong. ;) I run into way too many of those in this economy where people are struggling for gigs and oversell themselves into what turn out to be bad situations ... but that's OT ... Best to you. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
I just created a set of subroutines I copy and paste into anything that uses reads or writes XML. Most interfaces don't handle much beyond reading and extracting the element, value and attribute pairs anyway. That is all very easy to achieve without an 'interface' beyond OPEN (or OPENSEQ). Jake -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 2:55 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] Hi Tony I partly agree with you. But I should be able to process xml data in UniVerse far simpler than at the moment. I should not have to read xml in one application, convert it to a dynamic string and then send it to universe/unidata, I should just be able to do it one step. This is a failing of Rocket to provide suitable interfaces to unibasic. Regards David Jordan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012 4:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure] From: John Thompson This is where I think languages like php get it right. Their simple XML stuff makes it simple to parse even the junk you may get from somewhere else. I've commented here and blogged on this topic a number of times. I shake my head at the pain people continually subject themselves to when trying to force the square peg of XML into the round hole of Pick BASIC just because that's the comfort zone. There are any number of other tools out there specifically designed to work with XML. If you go to many other forums, developers aren't focused on the XML processing. They deftly convert to/from XML (and JSON) without a problem, and their questions are largely focused on what to do with the data. MV professionals need to shift focus from doing everything within the MVDBMS to making the best use of all tools available and integrating the MVDBMS with whatever utility does the job that's required. At the core of it, even when using external tools we convert XML to something and that something ultimately needs to be saved in an MV structure. (Similarly for outbound XML.) But if you're focused on namespaces and attributes then the tools you're using aren't providing adequate abstraction from the XML, and you might want to consider tools that convert XML to something else which is easier for you to use. The reality is, that there are a lot of sites and places out there that will send you all kinds of xml, and I found that since I was not proficient at massaging those non-standard feeds into what the U2 xml tools wanted, I just found it easier to do it another way. Whoe - stop right there. I tend to angle away from DBMS-oriented tools for processing XML, but in all fairness we can't expect any tool to behave properly if the data doesn't conform to standards. No, I haven't seen a lot of sites sending all kinds of XML that is non-standard. If you have a trading partner that doesn't produce or consume industry-standard documents, you need to talk with their IT people, and escallate to management on both sides if you're not getting cooperation. Respectfully, I'm guessing you're just not familiar with some of the details of XML, and when the U2 tools don't seem to address one of those details I'm guessing you're considering the document to be non-standard rather than the U2 tools. Again, in all fairness to the U2 team, I'm guessing this is a documentation issue or some lack of understanding along the way rather than any entity being non-standard. If indeed the U2 tools aren't providing standard functionality, well, see paragraph 1 above. :) Good luck. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com Nebula RD sells mv.NET and other Pick/MultiValue products worldwide, and provides related development services remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit http://PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno NEW! http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms/about ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] UniVerse Import XML data [not-secure]
We gave up and wrote our own xml parsing. The documentation was so scattered on the U2 XML stuff that it was quicker to just parse it and work with it in BASIC. Probably not what you wanted to hear... But to each his/her own. On 1/26/12, Hennessey, Mark F. mark.hennes...@ct.gov wrote: We have never received or processed data in XML before, but in the next 4-6 months we will start receiving data in XML from a partner on a daily basis. The documentation for the XML/DB tool and XML.TODB seems a little sparse. Does anyone have or know of a clearer discussion or walk through on the process? I found one video on Rocket's website that indicated there would be more, but I haven't been able to find any continuing the series. We're using UniVerse 10.2.2 on Solaris 11 (to be upgraded to UV 11.1.x in the next few months)... Mark Hennessey CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: The information contained in this e-mail may be confidential and protected from general disclosure. If the recipient or reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or a person responsible to receive this e-mail for the intended recipient, please do not disseminate, distribute or copy it. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. We will take immediate and appropriate action to see to it that this mistake is corrected.[*LD*] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Sent from my mobile device John Thompson ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
