[uknof] #NetDiff 4 - Tuesday 28th May - Cardiff

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

#NetDiff 4 is coming up soon, on Tuesday 28th May at 7pm. We're going to
be upstairs in the Head of Steam, Church Street, Cardiff again.

This month's talk is on the subject of "The search for the Welsh Border -
Adventures from an Ogi Fibre Project"

If you'd like to come along, please register for a free ticket on EventBrite
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/netdiff-4-tickets-896288181077

#NetDiff is about spending some time each month, socialising with your fellow
Networking professionals. To foster informal social networking and to throw in
a little learning along the way.

There’s no ‘entry requirement’ and the event itself is completely free to
attend for anyone interested in learning more about how we make the internet
work.  

We will aim for a minimum of one presentation on a Networking related topic. We
would welcome any future ideas/presenation on a networking related subject

Please purchase a drink or food from the establishment. Stay as long as you
wish after the event to discuss all things Networking 

Thanks to #NetMcr and #NetLdn for their support & advice

Re: [uknof] tail aggregator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Apr 19, 2024 at 02:26:04PM +, Andy Davidson wrote:
> That?s an NNI. Does anyone _not_ offer that?

Yes, Openreach :)

(Well, until EAD2...)

Simon

[uknof] #NetDiff 3 - Tuesday 23rd April - Cardiff

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

After having to cancel the event in March due to a large sports event filling
all the pubs, we're going to try again for April...

#NetDiff 3 is coming up next week, on Tuesday 23rd April at 7pm. We're going to
be upstairs in the Head of Steam, Church Street, Cardiff again.

This month's talk is on the subject of "Beyond 1G broadband | What about your
WiFi?"

If you'd like to come along, please register for a free ticket on EventBrite
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/netdiff-3-tickets-881230041777

#NetDiff is about spending some time each month, socialising with your fellow
Networking professionals. To foster informal social networking and to throw in
a little learning along the way.

There’s no ‘entry requirement’ and the event itself is completely free to
attend for anyone interested in learning more about how we make the internet
work.  

We will aim for a minimum of one presentation on a Networking related topic. We
would welcome any future ideas/presenation on a networking related subject

Please purchase a drink or food from the establishment. Stay as long as you
wish after the event to discuss all things Networking 

Thanks to #NetMcr and #NetLdn for their support & advice

[uknof] Network contact at National Lottery / Allwyn

[Simon Lockhart]

Does anyone have a (working) network contact at National Lottery and/or Allwyn?

They appear to be blocking access to their website from one of our /22's. Of
course, to our users, this is our problem to solve.

I've tried phoning them, but they just gave me an email address which doesn't
seem to be responding (other than an auto responder which says they'll reply
within 24 hours - which they haven't).

I've tried emailing the whois contacts for the IP blocks for their website,
but one bounces, and the other is for Camelot who aren't running it any more.

Not really sure what else we can do to try to resolve this...

Simon

[uknof] #NetDiff 2 - Tuesday 26th March - Cardiff

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

#NetDiff 2 is coming up next week, on Tuesday 26th March at 7pm. We're going to
be upstairs in the Head of Steam, Church Street, Cardiff again.

This month's talk is on the subject of "Beyond 1G broadband | What about your
WiFi?"

If you'd like to come along, please register for a free ticket on EventBrite
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/netdiff-2-tickets-862018700137

#NetDiff is about spending some time each month, socialising with your fellow
Networking professionals. To foster informal social networking and to throw in
a little learning along the way.

There’s no ‘entry requirement’ and the event itself is completely free to
attend for anyone interested in learning more about how we make the internet
work.  

We will aim for a minimum of one presentation on a Networking related topic. We
would welcome any future ideas/presenation on a networking related subject

Please purchase a drink or food from the establishment. Stay as long as you
wish after the event to discuss all things Networking 

Thanks to #NetMcr and #NetLdn for their support & advice

[uknof] #NetDiff inaugural meeting - Tuesday 27th Feb - Cardiff

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Building on the success of #NetLdn and #NetMcr, we felt a bit left out down
here in South Wales, so we're having our inaugural #NetDiff meeting next
Tuesday evening, 7pm in the Head of Steam pub, Cardiff. If you're nearby, we'd
really like you to join us.

Our first talk is from Steve Jones, entitled "How do we make Wales more
relevant in ‘Digital’?"

If you'd like to come along, please register for a free ticket on EventBrite
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/netdiff-tickets-810487117787

#NetDiff is about spending some time each month, socialising with your fellow
Networking professionals. To foster informal social networking and to throw in
a little learning along the way.

There’s no ‘entry requirement’ and the event itself is completely free to
attend for anyone interested in learning more about how we make the internet
work.  

We will aim for a minimum of one presentation on a Networking related topic. We
would welcome any fuutre indeas/presenation on a networking related subject

Please purchase a drink or food from the establishment. Stay as long as you
wish after the event to discuss all things Networking 

Thanks to #NetMcr and #NetLdn for their support & advice

Re: [uknof] I want fibre!!!

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 09:28:10AM +, Jethro Binks wrote:
> I went a walkaround for work purposes with an OR engineer a while back in the
> city centre, he was looking for the T-node which wasn't in the place
> documented so had to pop a few lids.  Every time there were other provider
> fibres in there, and he tutted and grumbled that while everyone else was
> "allowed to use" OR ducts, they were not permitted to use anyone else's.
> This seemed a little odd to me at the time, since if everyone could use OR
> ducts generally, there surely wouldn't be the need for so much digging.  So
> perhaps this grant is only in certain areas, like city centres.

What you describe is PIA (Passive Infrastructure Access) which is a product
from Openreach. Openreach don't like providing this, but are required to do so
under regulation (originally the requirement came from the EU).

It's available to any service provider throughout the UK. The idea is that the
ducts were installed using government money (from when BT was publicly owned),
and thus should be made available. In the same way that govermnet funded builds
by altnets (Gigabit Britain procrements, etc) have a clause in the contract 
which says that you have to make your infrastructure available to others. (So,
actually BT/Openreach could use ducts installed by others, but they choose not
to).

PIA isn't a magic answer though - many of the BT/Openreach ducts are in a poor
state of repair, or are congested. As a result altnets do use PIA quite 
extensively, but it doesn't stop them having to dig the roads up.

Simon

Re: [uknof] How much db is required over loss to operate a steady service - PON Optics

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Feb 07, 2023 at 10:45:48AM +, Paul Brennan wrote:
> When considering both planning and operation, how much db is required to
> operate a steady and reliable service once you take the light budget and
> measured loss into consideration.

How long is a piece of string?
 
> PON SFPs Optics rated for ? 31db (power budget) - What is the maximum
> tolerated loss and still have a working service at the full speed, latency,
> etc of the rated optic?

So my expectation here is that you can have 31dB of loss between sender and 
receiver (taking into account fibre, splitter, splice and patch loss) and have
a reliable service.

You will probably find that it'll also work with more than 31dB of loss, but
that's not guaranteed.

Maximum link budget is generally taken as the difference between the minimum
transmit level (because this is quoted as a range on the specs) and the 
minimum receieve level. You may be lucky and have transmitters that transmit
above the minimum TX level, and receivers that'll receive below the minimum
RX level.

Simon
 
> I've had some feedback and a little bit of googling along with a history of 
> practice, but I just wanted to know if there is a definitive level required.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Paul Brennan
> Head of Networks
> 01905 676121
> [Airband Logo]<https://www.airband.co.uk/>
> Airband Community Internet Ltd, 105 Pointon Way, Droitwich Spa, 
> Worcestershire WR9 0LW
> [https://www.airband.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Email_Signature_Facebook.png]<https://www.facebook.com/UKAirband/>
> 
> [https://www.airband.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Email_Signature_Twitter.png]
>  <https://twitter.com/UKAirband>  
> [https://www.airband.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Email_Signature_Instagram.png]
>  <https://www.instagram.com/ukairband/> 
> [https://www.airband.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Email_Signature_YouTube.png]
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC67gBN9A_z-deKn4Ban0TCg>   
> [https://www.airband.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Email_Signature_LinkedIn.png]
>  <https://www.linkedin.com/company/airband-community-internet-ltd/>
> Company no. 07114545. Registered in England and Wales.

-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

[uknof] Zen Full Fibre with Cisco router

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Does anyone have any experience with using a Cisco router as CPE for a Zen
Full Fibre connection?

I'm trying to bring a new line up for a company I work with, and whilst I was
able to get the Cisco to successfully connect and get Internet connectivity,
the PPP session consistently drops within a minute or so of connecting.

I've tested the same line with credentials from a Zen partner, and that's
rock solid with otherwise identical config, so it looks like there's something
that the Zen BNG/LNS's doesn't like.

Any suggestions? The company who ordered the line will try raising this with
Zen support tomorrow, but I figured they might struggle to get past first-line 
support without hitting the "Have you tried a different router?" line...

Many thanks in advance,

Simon

[uknof] Equinix Fabric and QinQ

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Does anyone have experience with Equinix Fabric connections and can help me
with a QinQ issue?

When you establish an Equinix Fabric Port, you can choose Dot1Q or QinQ mode 
for the port. If you choose Dot1Q, you specify just a single tag when you build
a connection over the port, and if you choose QinQ you have to specify both
outer and inner tags when you build the connection.

I have a situation where I need to create a QinQ connection with a fixed outer
tag, but multiple inner tags. This doesn't work when setting the port to QinQ
mode, as I have to create (and pay for) a connection for every inner tag I want
to use. Equinix tell me that if I choose Dot1Q mode, Equnix Fabric won't carry
QinQ traffic, even if the outer tag matches what they're expecting for the
connection.

Has anyone done this before? 

Many thanks in advance, 

Simon

Re: [uknof] Age Old Question - Juniper vs Cisco

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Jul 27, 2021 at 01:23:36PM +, Andy Hunter wrote:
> We are upgrading our network to accommodate 100Gb, and are replacing our
> existing Cisco infrastructure, whilst investigating this we have been seduced
> with the power vs capability of the Juniper vs Cisco Question. 

I went around this loop in 2018/2019, looking to upgrade our aged 6500 based
network to support 100G.

> For us this is between Juniper MX480 / 960 Premium models vs Cisco ASR 9006.

That's where I ended up, too. The ASR9006 is long in the tooth now, you 
probably want to be looking at the ASR99xx range, unless you're looking at
refurbished kit.

> My question is twofold ? What are other people using, and have you got any
> gotchas to keep an eye out for, and, are we missing any other vendors.

When I did this process, I found that the MX480 / ASR9k ended up at similar
price points, both above what we felt was 'value for money' at the time. Both
were very capable of meeting our feature needs.

Then, about the same time, Juniper launched the MX204 and MX10003. These turned
out to be real game changers for us, and we invested in both models (at edge
and core respectively). The price point was much lower than the traditional
MX480 range, and actually ended up exceeding our cost expectations.

Sure, on those platforms you need to keep an eye on port combination 
limitations (e.g. the MX204 has 400Gbps of silicon throughput, but 480Gbps of
ports, so you have to 'give up' one of the 100G ports if you want to use the
10G ports - and similar limits on the MX10k), but we were very happy with them.

Of course, other vendors are available - some like the Nokia 7750 range, others
like the 'white box' and/or Broadcom chipset route (Arista and others), but
you need to keep an eye on feature availability and maturity to see if it
fits your requirements (when we were looking, we found them lacking in
MPLS/VPLS support, but I believe that's there now).

Hope this helps,

Simon

Re: [uknof] Finding out future Openreach plans for a cabinet

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Oct 07, 2020 at 06:55:34PM +0100, Alan Ramsay wrote:
> So it seems that OR are trying to sweat their copper a bit longer at least.

I suspect it's more to do with the government grants/subsidies that Openreach
can get for installing fibre to places that don't have decent broadband 
already.

Simon

Re: [uknof] TTB Outage

[Simon Lockhart]

> > On Tue Aug 18, 2020 at 09:05:15AM +0100, Paul Bone wrote:
> > > Is there anyone from TTB who can confirm the likely resolution time? And
> > > also does sound a bit suspiciously like equipment only running off one
> > > power rail.

Latest update from TTB:

The impact on TalkTalk equipment is minimal, the outage is being driven by
customers equipment located in Harbour Exchange (8/9 Hex) being down due to
loss of power. Some customers on the LTS platform are down due to partner
equipment being out of service. These are customers without resilience, traffic
has rerouted for those with resilience. Its been identified that we have lost
collector nodes to core links in Norwich, Colchester, Salisbury, Exeter, Oxford
& Guildford. This is a loss of resilience across our core, no customer impact
and no risk of congestion. Its been observed that approximately 12k E-Access
circuits down. TalkTalk equipment is upm however we are not receiving any light
from impacted partners equipment. The only TalkTalk equipment impacted is a
TalkTalk switch in HEX, on the TUK Network. NOC are currently carrying out an
impact assessment to understand the partners and customers services affected.

Simon

Re: [uknof] TTB Outage

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Aug 18, 2020 at 09:05:15AM +0100, Paul Bone wrote:
> Is there anyone from TTB who can confirm the likely resolution time? And
> also does sound a bit suspiciously like equipment only running off one
> power rail.

There is a catastrophic power failure in HEX 8/9 (Equinix LD8) affecting
floors 1-4.

Equinix are currently in the process of migrating people to a new UPS system
which they'd been installing.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Openreach Siehell

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Aug 04, 2020 at 04:04:29pm +, Adrian Bolster wrote:
> Is there anyone from Openreach here who would be willing to offer some
> assistance with Openreach's Siebel eCo ordering process? I am at my wits' end
> trying to get it to process an order.

There's probably a few of us fairly familiar with Openreach ordering systems
and processes. Why are you still using eCo? What's the problem?

Simon

Re: [uknof] Thought for the day: announce the end of IPv4 internet connections by 2026

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed May 27, 2020 at 12:27:49pm +0100, Paul Mansfield wrote:
> according to the SOA for bbc.net.uk there should be a b...@bbc.co.uk
> who can answer why!

Because I don't remember writing IPv6 support in my (perl) load balancing DNS
server :)

BBC have, however, run IPv6 on www.bbc.co.uk at periods in the past (e.g. IPv6
day).

Simon
(bofh@bbc, at least at some point in the past)

Re: [uknof] Docklands-Williams spectrum

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon May 18, 2020 at 12:48:32pm +, Catalin Dominte wrote:
> I am looking for a someone who can offer optical spectrum from Docklands (any
> of the usual subjects) to Equinix Williams House in Manchester. My client
> wants to put a 50Ghz coherent device at either end, so the supplier would
> allocate a channel on their existing infrastructure. Not many people seem to
> advertise this, one exception I?ve found is Colt:
> (https://www.colt.net/product/spectrum/)
> 
> Can anyone offer suggestions for who it?s worth talking to about this apart
> from Colt?

We did this at $prev_job (actually a national ring, but including Docklands and
Williams House), but as you found, it's not widely sold.

The challenge is that you're piggy-backing on someone else's optical network,
and depending on their amplification and (potentially) regeneration platforms.
To not affect the other uses of the optical spectrum, they will need to work 
with you to balance optical levels on different wavelengths, so as to not
unbalance their amps, etc.

You're probably better off finding smaller players who have taken leases on
dark fibre and running DMDM on that path, and see if they'll work with you. For
example, I believe Commsworld (Hi Charlie!) have this path and are running a
DWDM on it.

Simon

Re: [uknof] GEA Cablelink "external"

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri May 22, 2020 at 02:48:41pm +0100, James Bensley wrote:
> Where are you ordering the external variant cable-link to/from? I
> presume you're requesting that one end is a handover chamber outside,
> where are you requesting the other end be? They are a mixture of an
> internal variant 3 (from your rack to an internal cable chamber) plus
> pulling in a fibre from an external handover chamber which is spiced
> onto the internal variable 3 cable-link, so one end should be an
> Access Locate rack. Is the problem you have that you have an older
> pre-Access Locate rack?

You're confusing "Cablelink" with "GEA Cablelink". They're two very different
things.

GEA Cablelink is a fibre link (1G or 10G) from an Openreach layer 2 switch
where they hand-off GEA services (i.e. FTTC/FTTP).

Simon

Re: [uknof] London Dark Fibre

[Simon Lockhart]

Stuart Henderson wrote:
> If it's only 10G then you might want to look at using a wavelength on 
> somebody's
> wdm system instead rather than dark fibre. There will be many options for 
> this,
> to pick one that shows prices: https://www.bogons.net/aboutus/prices.shtml 
> 
Andy Hunter wrote:
> +1 for Bogons – Give Brandon a call – really helpful and reliable.

Thanks for the recommendations, both - Brandon has already been in contact with 
Glen off-list.

Simon

Re: [uknof] COVID-19 offers of help and network changes

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Mar 17, 2020 at 09:10:33AM +, Job Snijders wrote:
> I'm happy to have 1 hour
> webex calls in which I can offer 1 hour of 'free consultancy' on any topic I
> might know something about.

Yeah - likewise. I'm located not near any of the big Internet hubs (both London
and Manchester are a 3 hour drive away), but more than happy to offer advice
and support remotely. I can also provide remote hands if you actually do have
infrastructure in South Wales (e.g. NGD), but don't want to travel.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Fibre internet - was Re: Current State of Multicast on the Internet?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 12:04:09PM +0100, David Derrick wrote:
> Any idea when we can expect to see trained dolphins pulling fibre reels
> across the Scapa Flow?

I know a few divers headed that way, perhaps I can bribe them to drag some
fibre along behind the dive boat...

Simon

Re: [uknof] Current State of Multicast on the Internet?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Sep 02, 2019 at 09:14:38PM +0100, Ray Bellis wrote:
> How does multicast cope there whenever someone presses the "pause" button?

In my experience, the STB (or TV) writes the multicast stream to disk, in much
the same way that my Sky box does when I press pause.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Dark Fibre providers in London

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Feb 07, 2019 at 01:54:10PM +, James Bensley wrote:
> Between the DCs apart from Zayo, Colt have a good DF footprint.

Yes, COLT have been mentioned a couple of times. Does anyone have a good sales
contact there?
 
> Between the exchanges, are BT/OR off the cards - they are the obvious
> choice there? If it doesn't need to be DF then the Openreach EBD
> product for layer 2 Ethernet could be what you're after or
> FilterConnect for wavelengths. 

EAD and EBD is what we're using at the moment, but as we go over 10Gbs per
exchange, then 2x10G EBD will be way more expensive than metro dark fibre.

> If has to be DF then speak to your OR
> account manager, DFA is AWOL right now but they might have something
> for you. 

Yes, I'm keeping my ears open for the next iteration of DFA which sounds like
it's exactly what I'm after here...

Simon

[uknof] Dark Fibre providers in London

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

It's a few years since I've been shopping for this, so I thought it worthwhile
updating my list of suitable candidates...

I'm looking for some dark fibre around London - probably two (or more) rings,
the first linking some datacentres (Interxion LON1, Telehouse, Sovereign House
and HEX), and the other(s) linking a number of BT Exchanges around London.

I'm currently using Zayo for parts of this already, and am talking to them,
but who else should I be looking at?

Many thanks in advance,

Simon

Re: [uknof] CoLo in Leeds

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 10:12:56am +, Paul Bone wrote:
> Can anyone recommend some well-connected CoLo space in Leeds?

AQL.

Simon

Re: [uknof] SSE Fibre Problems this evening

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Jul 26, 2018 at 09:51:28PM +, Paul Bone wrote:
> Our circuit has just come back up.

As did all our affected ones...

Simon

Re: [uknof] SSE Fibre Problems this evening

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Jul 26, 2018 at 09:36:00PM +, Paul Webb wrote:
> Anyone in the now on the SSE network problems between Wales and London this
> evening from 8.15pm?  Seems to be affecting Surf too?

"Emergency fibre repair at Froxfield affecting various services between 20:00
BST Thursday 26th and 06:00 BST Friday 27th July 2018.

Work is required to cut and resplice a damaged section of cable.

Listed services will experience an outage of up to 10 hours."

Except SSE claim it shouldn't have affected us, even though our circuit that's
currently down is between London and Bristol, which if my geography is correct
would run straight through Froxfield.

Simon

[uknof] Anyone have a Flexbox (with CFP slot) at/near Interxion

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Does anyone have a Flexoptix Flexbox (latest version, with CFP4 slot) at or
near Interxion (LON1) that one of our engineers could borrow tomorrow to 
programme a couple of CFP4's? We bought a couple of a specific requirement and
forgot to ask for them to be programmed (as 'generic'), and our kit isn't 
liking them unprogrammed.

Alternatively, if someone is in Interxion today/tomorrow with one and would be
willing to program the optic for us, that would also work...

Many thanks in advance,

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

[uknof] Juniper MX204/MX10003

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Does anyone have any experience of the Juniper MX10003 and/or MX204? I’ve 
always been a Cisco person for core network, and had been looking at ASR9k as a 
100G upgrade path for our core - but the MX10003 is coming in at under half the 
price of an equivalent ASR9000 build. Equally, I’d been looking at the ASR9901 
as a border router upgrade, but the MX204 is stupidly cheap in comparison.

The one thing we’ve found from reading the spec sheets is that both routers 
have more ports than the ASICs can support, so if you want to use the lower 
speed ports you have to give up one or more of the 100G ports - but this seems 
well documented and easy to work with.

Any other gotchas that people are aware of? The Juniper sales pitch is 
compelling, but I’ve not used them before to know what to be looking out for.

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] Cisco reseller recommendation

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 01:01:28PM +, Aled Morris wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a cheap Cisco reseller?
> 
> I'm looking for a couple of ASR1002-HX routers for (CG)NAT gateways.

I buy similar kit for a similar purpose from Go Communications.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Wholesale broadband query

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Oct 25, 2017 at 06:47:12AM +0100, Paul Thornton wrote:
> My hunch is that this is an exchange line.  Is there a canonical way that I
> can find this out authoritatively?

Anyone with access to the Openreach tools can check this. Look also at ADSL
checkers which tell you which cabinet you're connected to (I think the BTW
one does). If it doesn't list a cabinet (PCP) number, then it's an EO line.

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] Good ISPs in the UK

[Simon Lockhart]

On Sun Sep 24, 2017 at 03:24:47PM -0500, JASON BOTHE wrote:
> I am currently looking for recommendations on well connected ISPs in the UK.
> We are currently using Claranet and Exp-E but are wondering if there is a
> better tiered ISP to be connected to that can offer a low price/per/mb cost.
> Any recommendations are welcome.

Depends what you're after, where, and what volume.

There's plenty of us ISPs out there who genuinely believe we're well connected
and that our pricing is competitive!

Simon
-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain & Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] Example of total DC loss

[Simon Lockhart]

As a reminder for the bitrot in the last 16 years...

http://www.slimey.org/bbc_ticket_10083.txt

Simon

On Thu Jun 01, 2017 at 01:26:46PM +, Neil J. McRae wrote:
> As I recall fuzzy though was AC issues caused by dust and they eventually ran 
> out of fuel for the generator as the port authority wouldn't allow tankers 
> onto Manhattan. Might be wrong on that long time ago.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 1 Jun 2017, at 14:22, Rob pickering 
> <r...@pickering.org<mailto:r...@pickering.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Not UK, but Telehouse NY 25 Broadway had a fairly long outage a few days 
> after the initial 9/11 attack. ISTR they were initially OK, but then had a 
> generator problems due to ingress of dust into radiators. It's a long while 
> ago, lots of neural bit rot since then, may not have been 25 Broadway at all, 
> but Nanog archives (if they go back that far) will probably tell you quite a 
> bit of the story.
> 
> On 01/06/2017 11:50, Simon Green wrote:
> Morning List :)
> 
> I???m hunting for an examples of long duration data centre outages in the UK, 
> from a day of downtime to total data centre loss (explosion or some other 
> industrial accident).
> 
> Is anyone aware of any tails they could share? Bigger and higher impact the 
> better.
> 
> Slightly more casually interested in BT exchanges as well.
> 
> I???m aware of:
> 
> · Several corporate incidents, including Three, Capita, and Vodafone
> 
> · The Telecity power issues from a few years back, though they were 
> less than a day
> 
> 
> 
> Simon
> 

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Re: [uknof] Single Mode SFP with fibre patch lead anyone at or around postcode SG12FP

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 11:07:18PM +, Neil J. McRae wrote:
> > On 22 Mar 2017, at 14:02, Simon Lockhart <si...@slimey.org> wrote:
> > Is that demand not driven largely by the fact that 1G EAD is only available
> > on fibre?

> No.

You clearly have a very different customer base to the rest of Industry, then.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Single Mode SFP with fibre patch lead anyone at or around postcode SG12FP

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Mar 22, 2017 at 01:36:57PM +, Neil J. McRae wrote:
> I think that depends on the market you are in, for downstream BT with 1G
> sized customers fibre is in much more demand than copper, same was true at
> the last two places I worked at also. 

Neil,

Is that demand not driven largely by the fact that 1G EAD is only available on
fibre?

Sure, 5-10 years ago, 100M was copper, and GigE was fibre - but we're now in
2017, and even 10GE copper is becoming more prevalent.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Single Mode SFP with fibre patch lead anyone at or around postcode SG12FP

[Simon Lockhart]

On Sat Mar 18, 2017 at 06:55:38PM +, Gavin Henry wrote:
> So, customer needs an sfp and patch lead by Monday...hmmm..why do they do
> this at weekends and not tell you so you can advise.

Amazon Prime? :)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GLC-LH-SM-Compatible-1000BASE-LX-1310nm-Transceiver/dp/B01M2YIFHC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8=1489864009=8-2=lx+sfp

Simon

Re: [uknof] Single Mode SFP with fibre patch lead anyone at or around postcode SG12FP

[Simon Lockhart]

On Sat Mar 18, 2017 at 05:14:40PM +, Gavin Henry wrote:
> OR didn't deliver RJ45 presentation like requested and our customer is
> trying to get this up at the weekend

If it's GigE presentation on an EAD, then fibre is the only choice. You can
choose between multimode and singlemode, though :)

Simon

Re: [uknof] DWDM

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Feb 20, 2017 at 02:32:38PM +, Charl Tintinger wrote:
> We are looking for dark fibre (lit services as 2nd resort), in areas such
> as Devon / Shropshire back to any of our current POP locations and/or LINX
> 224 / LONAP.

Charl,

A lot will depend on where your PoPs are - and therefore how far you need to
travel.

If you're looking for national (i.e. Devon/Shropshire back to London) dark 
fibre, then there's not a huge choice of people who'll sell. SSE, Virgin,
Zayo, CityFibre (ex KCom) are the people I'd look at.

However, if you're looking more regional, then there are more options out
there - Surf in the South West, FibreSpeed in North Wales, B4RN in the North
West.

Simon

[uknof] L2 circuit from London to Florence

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Is anyone on-list familiar with the telecoms scene in Italy? I'm trying to
get an Ethernet L2 circuit to a customer site in Florence from one of our
datacentres in London (or Amsterdam, if that makes it easier). I've spoken
to several of our "usual suspect" suppliers, and they've either no-bid, or
we've had prices of between 30k and 55k UKP per year for a 500M link (which
seems very high, compared to quotes we've had for similar services into other
European countries).

For those who've bought circuits within Italy previously, is this pricing in
line with what you'd expect? Am I likely to get better pricing by taking
space in an Italian datacentre, and then buying an in-country tail circuit?
Any suggestions for other suppliers that may be able to help (I've already
spoken to Viatel, Zayo, Colt, KPN, GTT/Hibernia & Console)?

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] BBC Peering

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Nov 21, 2016 at 12:55:51pm +, Alistair Mackenzie wrote:
> I'm trying to get in contact with someone at BBC who can help with peering
> at IXScotland.

I'm not sure if they're live there yet. Physical connection is there, but not
sure if it has been extended back to their nearest peering router yet.

> I've emailed a couple of times to peer...@bbc.co.uk which is listed in
> peeringdb but seems to have gone unanswered. The telephone numbers for
> peering and noc also seem to be no longer in service.

That's the right address.  Where did you find the phone numbers? I can prod
people to get them updated.

Simon

Re: [uknof] IX-Reach / Console - gone down hill?

[Simon Lockhart]

> On 1 Sep 2016, at 18:38, n...@bhost.net  wrote:
> 
> Are there any other folks out there who were once satisfied IX Reach 
> customers but think it's gone down hill since acquisition by Console? 
> Wondering if it's just me or not!

Not just you. We've been having nothing but issues with their MPLS based 
services. Random periods of packet loss and interested latency. We've given up 
reporting them now, as we never get anything more than "we can't find anything 
on our network that would be causing it". 

We're in the process of migrating away to a wavelength service from another 
carrier on the same route. 

I don't doubt that a wavelength service from them would be more reliable, but 
they burnt their bridges with us. 

Simon

Re: [uknof] WLR3 BTOR TPI companies

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Jul 06, 2016 at 10:55:13PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote:
> I presume some of you will be using one of these:
> 
> * Strategic Imperatives - www.imperatives.co.uk

Company that $dayjob has just acquired uses these folk, and only has good 
things to say about them.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Peering with Limelight Networks

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Jun 17, 2016 at 01:22:19PM +, Paul Bone wrote:
> We are seeing a fairly high percentage of traffic from their AS on our
> transit (particularly during the England game yesterday!) and I have tried
> several times to contact them via the Peering DB site to no avail.

Given you mention PeeringDB, did you read the peering policy ("Selective"),
and the detail of their peering policy: http://login.llnw.net/noauth/peering.cgi

Do you meet their requirements? If so, you should be fine, but note 
requirements like "peer in multiple locations" means not just two LINX LANs,
but typically 2 or 3 european cities.

Simon

Re: [uknof] IOS Mail App (was Re: vendor-neutral json representation of firewall rules...)

[Simon Lockhart]

> *moo*

That's better :)

Simon

Re: [uknof] IOS Mail App (was Re: vendor-neutral json representation of firewall rules...)

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Jun 07, 2016 at 02:55:16PM +0100, Edward Dore wrote:
> I think Nico's theory that Simon has an app installed which is causing the
> body of the message to be treated as an attachment that should be opened
> externally is most likely.

I think I know what it is... I have an ancient procmail rule which takes
inline PGP, and wraps it in a MIME attachment of type application/pgp. I think
this was to make mutt work nicer with inline PGP messages. I've turned that
off for now and will see what everything makes of it now.

Simon

Re: [uknof] IOS Mail App (was Re: vendor-neutral json representation of firewall rules...)

[Simon Lockhart]

> Seems to be related to the PGP signature. 

Yes, it's certainly triggered by PGP. Do you have any PGP extensions or 
settings enabled?

Simon

[uknof] IOS Mail App (was Re: vendor-neutral json representation of firewall rules...)

[Simon Lockhart]

> On 7 Jun 2016, at 11:32, Tom Hill  wrote:
> 
> 

Hopefully attachments come through to the list. Does anyone else have this 
problem with IOS Mail app?



Simon

Re: [uknof] Telecity Williams - Full Rack

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri May 13, 2016 at 04:23:30PM +0100, Tom Hill wrote:
> On 13/05/16 13:53, Gareth Bryan wrote:
> > If anyone has a full rack in Telecity Williams going could you give
> > me a shout please?
> 
> It might be blindingly obvious, but did you ask Telec^WEquinix yet?

I ask them regularly, and they keep telling me they have no space in Williams.

Plenty of space in the other Manchester sites, though...

Simon
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Re: [uknof] Virginmedia

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu May 05, 2016 at 05:02:33PM +, Julian Harse wrote:
> Is there anyone here on the list at Virginmedia? We'd like to explore the
> possibility of peering.

All the information you need is on peeringdb: 

https://www.peeringdb.com/net/1412

They state that their peering policy is "restrictive", and a copy of the
policy is linked to.

Simon
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[uknof] SPAM: Re: CP's who unbundle BT exchanges - faster Cablelinks

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Feb 16, 2016 at 03:15:21PM +, Simon Lockhart wrote:
> If you think this is a good idea, please can you vote for the SOR in the SOR
> Management tool [...]

For those of you not familiar with the SOR tool, the URL is 

https://openreach.sormanagement.net/Default.aspx

It's the official route for requesting product changes within Openreach, and 
you'll probably need to hassle your SRM to get a login, although there is a
registration link on the login page.

Simon

[uknof] CP's who unbundle BT exchanges - faster Cablelinks

[Simon Lockhart]

This is a request to those CPs on list who unbundle BT exchanges, and use the
Internal Cablelink product to interconnect with other CPs (e.g. for backhaul).

At the moment, an Internal Cablelink takes between 20 and 25 working days (i.e.
4 to 5 weeks) to be delivered. This is equivalent to a Cross-connect within
a datacentre, which we typically see installed in 2-5 days (if not quicker).

I've raised a SOR on Openreach (SOR 8460), to request that Openreach look to
speed up the delivery.

The actually wording is:

"As a CP within BT Exchanges, we often need to interconnect with other CPs for
backhaul purposes, and therefore need to consume the Ethernet Cablelink
product.  In some situations, the 20-25 working day leadtime for the Cablelink
product is causing significant additional delays to the commisioning project
for a newly unbundled exchange (particularly where the backhaul provider is
able to provide their component of the backhaul, sometimes nationally, in the
same or even shorter leadtime). We would like the ability to request an
expedite on the Cablelink provision (particularly an internal variant, which
should be an easy product to deliver), with a target of delivery within 5-10
working days of order acceptance. This results in poor customer satisfaction,
especially where we are waiting to deliver an end-to-end service to an end user
served from the newly unbundled exchange.

An alternate solution to this SOR would be to reduce the standard contractual
leadtime for Internal Variant Cablelinks to 10 working days (to include the
additional time required to provide a patch panel). This would bring Internal
Variant Cablelink timescales closer in line with industry norms within the
datacentre market (which is typically 2-5 working day leadtime!)."

If you think this is a good idea, please can you vote for the SOR in the SOR
Management tool, or provide feedback via your Openreach SRM.

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] Anyone here unbundled BT Tower exchange (WEWBLO)?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Feb 10, 2016 at 11:36:17AM +, Ben Doherty wrote:
> Were you guys not offered attended handovers? We try and always do these to
> figure out access problems. We had one recently where our kit was in an area
> that had a key lock,

We've always just done virtual handovers, which up until this point have worked
fine for us.

Maybe we need to identify 'risky' exchanges when we order them, and go for an
attended handover for those to reduce risk after handover.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Fwd: internet connection record

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed Jan 20, 2016 at 11:35:27AM +, Hal Ponton wrote:
> I believe what the government is looking for is the "first slash" record. So
> a visit to www.bbc.co.uk/news  would have to be
> recorded as www.bbc.co.uk /

How would you, as a service provider, capture this information, assuming you
have no DPI capability at the moment?

(Genuine question - from what I saw, the requirement is only to do it if you're
capturing the information already, but if you're not, how would you?)

Simon

[uknof] 10G London - Manchester (Interxion to Williams House)

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Is there anyone on list who can provision a 10G layer 2 service between
London (Interxion LON1) and Manchester (Telecity Williams House). I have an
urgent requirement for this, so I'm looking for someone who can turn it up
within about a week. Target price is under £10k/year, and I only need it for
1 year (or less).

Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] 10G London - Manchester (Interxion to Williams House)

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:44:50AM +0100, James Bensley wrote:
> IIX / IXReach should be able to turn this up in a jiffy now they have
> gobbled up Allegro;
> 
> http://www.ixreach.com/wp-content/uploads/PoP-List.pdf

They were my firt port of call, but they're quoting 3 weeks...

Simon

[uknof] Wireless leased-line provider in Glasgow

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Is anyone on-list a provider of wireless leased-line (i.e. ethernet over
radio) services in the Glasgow area? Or, can anyone recommend someone?

I've got a requirement and am currently struggling to find someone already
operating in Glasgow who can help. Unfortunately we've been let down (again) by
the usual fibre-based-connectivity providers.

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] Ofcom proposals to force BT OpenReach forced to allow access to dark fibre?

[Simon Lockhart]

 On 27 May 2015, at 10:05, Tim Bray t...@kooky.org wrote:
 According to the friendly BT openreach man who came and spent 45 minutes
 connecting a BT NTE the other day, this plan is definitely happening.
 (although he might be wrong)

I was at a meeting with Openreach last week, and someone there not only 
expected it to happen but also commented on what the pricing would be. I'd say 
they're already a fair way down the path of working out how they'd do this - 
possibly because the EU said a while back that BT would have to. 

 2 men dig up road.   Another 2 men comes weeks later and put some tube
 in ducts and blow and splice fibre.   Weeks later another man tunes up
 with an NTE and connects as above. And it still doesn't work because the
 other end isn't done.

Openreach are trying to improve the process but it's painfully slow. 


 Neil, if you are reading this and would like me to write up just how
 crap it can be ..

$dayjob orders several hundred a year. We have more than our fair share of 
stories and suggestions for improvement. 

Simon

Re: [uknof] indicative pricing for bandwidth in Madrid?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 01:54:16PM +, Neil J. McRae wrote:
 BT Spain? We have a lot of network in Spain.

As I've also been asked to look at stuff in Spain, I'm interested in this too.

Which bit of BT do we speak to, to get more information about this? Or is it
run completely separate from BT in the UK?

Simon

Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:31:23PM +, Rich Lewis wrote:
  As long as you're not taking the p*ss, we're reasonably tolerant.
 
 Define taking the p*ss. ;-) Would P2P and Usenet qualify? Or is it
 just volumes/peak rates that you're concerned with rather than what
 the traffic is or where it's going?

Put bluntly, your 95th percentile bandwidth usage needs to be low. Anything 
over 1Mbps 95th percentile means you're costing us more than we charge... We
could charge more, but then we just get told that we're uncompetitive 
compared to BT/Sky/Virgin who offer unlimited usage for pennies.

As long as it's 'legal', we don't really mind what the content is. Cause us
to get several copyright infringement notices, and we'll get annoyed.

Simon
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Re: [uknof] The operator's operator

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Mar 23, 2015 at 08:23:30PM +, Gavin Henry wrote:
 Although looking at TTB EoFTTC products too.

We've used this a couple of times. It serves a niche well, but that niche 
isn't home broadband.

 We go through an aggregator for this. On BT WBC do you get charged
 95th for traffic from the CPE to your NNI or do you pay for a big
 pipe? Using our BTW account I've downloaded their WBC and WBMC price
 lists and I've never seen anything like it! The xls is mental. Nothing
 like the SIP one.

Pass - we use an aggregator too :)

Simon
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Re: [uknof] what is TFM61

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Feb 19, 2015 at 02:34:39PM +0100, Michal Maslowiec wrote:
 Could you please help me to explain what is TFM61 number in context od
 Telehouse East?
 
 Is it a rack number or a room number or else?

TFM61 is a shared space room.

According to my map ( http://www.slimey.org/telehouse_map.txt ), although it's
not specifically on there, I'd say it's probably on the 3rd floor of the East
building (given TFM51 is on the 2nd floor, and TFM71 on the 4th).

Simon

[uknof] Openreach Ethernet price reductions - when do they take effect?

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

I've not managed to find a definitive answer to this on the Openreach website,
and although we've asked our account manager, I'm not sure I believe his 
answer (some of which contradicts what I can find on the Openreach website).
Therefore, I thought I'd ask the collective...

When Openreach reduces the pricing on an Ethernet product (e.g. EAD), does
that price change automatically get applied to existing circuits? If so, when?

Say, for example, we had an EAD100-LA delivered on 1/4/13. Install cost is
GBP 1950.00, and annual rental is GBP 2131.20. Openreach reduced their prices
on 1/5/13, such that the annual rental is then GBP 1605.00. Should we see that
price reduction reflected immediately, or after the initial 12 month term, or
not at all.

What about if we ordered a circuit on a 5 year term? If Openreach reduce the
price for the 5 year term product, do we get the new pricing immediately from
the effective date of the change, or after the initial 5 year term on the 
circuit has expired, or not at all?

Our account manager says the new pricing takes effect automatically from the
effective date, even if we're in the middle of a 5 year term. I don't believe
that, particularly not for the 5 year term products. My suspicion is that the
pricing which was in effect at the time of ordering is what we pay for the
full time that we retain that circuit.

Can anyone clarify this at all, based on experience?

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] Ethernet over FTTC (GEA-FTTC)

[Simon Lockhart]

 On 11 Jan 2015, at 03:55, Wojciech Lesiak wojciech.les...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Does anyone have any detailed information about this product? Is it similar 
 to leased line, is it possible to run BGP session over it ?

GEA-FTTC is presented to the service provider as Ethernet in the handover 
exchange, one VLAN per tail circuit. It's then up to the service provider what 
they do with it from there. They could expect PPPoE, they could expect DHCP, or 
they could just extend the vlan and present it like a point-to-point Ethernet 
link (ie like a leased line). All of these options would allow you to run BGP 
over it, depending on what you're trying to achieve. 

I know that TalkTalk offer the leased-line like product, but unsure who else 
does. 

Simon

[uknof] Openreach Infrastructure Discovery map tool

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Openreach's Infrastructure Discovery map tool has been in 'trial' since
August. Does anyone on-list have access to this trial? If so, can you
contact me off-list? I have a favour to ask...

Simon

Re: [uknof] Virgin Media Products

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Sep 16, 2014 at 01:22:27PM +0100, James Bensley wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 Can anyone clarify for me the differenence between these virgin products;
 
 Ethernet PtP/PtMP
 IP VPN
 Ethernet VPN
 Leased Lines
 HCS - This is the only one I am sure off.

Based on what I've seen so far:

Leased Line = non Ethernet (i.e. E1, etc)

Ethernet Extension = same as BT EAD, within the same Virgin franchise area
Ethernet Extension + = same as BT EAD, but across a franchise boundary
National Ethernet = P2P Ethernet over their MPLS network

HCS = Wavelength services

I've not come across the other terms from our sales guys - are they perhaps
legacy products, or just someone's pet name for a product?

Simon

[uknof] Temporary connectivity to E20 1GS

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Having been badly let down by Openreach (and not just on this one...), I'm
in fairly urgent need of some temporary connectivity to a site at E20 1GS.

It's right next door to the Olympic Village. Does anyone have a PoP or site
within line-of-site of there that we could run a wireless link to?

Many thanks,

Simon

[uknof] 1G Ethernet circuit to Aberystwyth

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

I'm needing to get a 1G Point-to-point circuit from Aberystwyth (SY23 2DH)
to somewhere sensible - Interxion LON1, or Telecity Williams House. Most
carriers are no-bidding this as they have no network in the area, and the
quotes I am getting are stupidly expensive - so I need to think outside the
box a bit.

Any suggestions for 'alternative' carriers that are in this area and can help
me?

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] 1G Ethernet circuit to Aberystwyth

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Aug 05, 2014 at 07:09:01PM +0100, Stephen Wilcox wrote:
 Go to a national carrier with access to exchanges such as SSE or COLT, you
 will be paying a high fee for the BTOR component but at least finding
 someone in the area who can backhaul should help minimise that piece of it.

It's certainly off-net for SSE - we use them for a lot of stuff, but their
only presence in Wales in at Cardiff (or possibly Swansea).

BTOR component should be no more than UKP 4440/year for an EAD1000-LA, and
I've been getting quotes of between 15k and 30k/year - so the majority of
cost is in the backhaul.
 
 Doing it that way it will end up the same price whether its Manchester or
 London you go back with anyway so at least you can haul it all the way to a
 good handoff point for yourself...

True, but 'alternative' providers might only be in one or the other.

 Other than that the only Alternative I have is to tell your client to
 move to somewhere better connected .. I hear Cardiff is about to be the
 Next Big Thing... :)

The silly thing is, I can probably unbundle Aberystwyth exchange, and get 
backhaul via Cardiff, for less than some carriers want for me to use their
network.

Surf Telecoms cover the south coast of Wales, and others cover the north coast,
but I'm struggling to find people who do the west coast.

Simon

[uknof] Urgently needed - SC/APC to LC singlemode patch leads near Reading

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Having just turned up for an install job in Reading, I've just found that   
the fibre presentation is not LC as we'd expected, but is actually SC/APC.  
As a result, I don't have a suitable patch cable with me.   

Any suggestions on where I could urgently get an SC/APC to LC patch cable   
(singlemode duplex) in or near Reading? 

Many thanks,

Simon   

Re: [uknof] Bandwidth graphs

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri May 02, 2014 at 02:33:42PM +0100, Ed Butler wrote:
 We are introducing a new bandwidth collection model, where instead of using
 off the shelf tools like RRD etc, we are bringing data into a database. The
 challenge we have currently with this is how to display the data to clients
 in as pretty a way as possible.

There's only so much you can sex up a bandwidth graph - particularly if you
want to be able to include it in an email, or print onto a invoice. There's
probably more benefit in analysing the graph - peak times, unexpected peaks,
min, max, 95th percentile, average, etc.

There are various graphing tools out there, most of which will generate pretty
good looking graphs, with various levels of work required to achieve. Much
depends on what language you're working in, and in what format you want the
graphs out.

Simon

Re: [uknof] L2 to Frankfurt DCs

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:32:03PM +, Charlie Boisseau wrote:
 Does anyone know of network operators who can do Ethernet from the usual
 locations in London/Manchester over to Telehouse Frankfurt and Equinix FR2
 (also in Frankfurt)?
 
We use Atrato/Hibernia to get to Amsterdam, and they seem to be in most
Amsterdam  Frankfurt DCs. Have you tried them?

Simon

Re: [uknof] DWDM costs ?

[Simon Lockhart]

Not dumb - just that I could give you an answer of about £2k, and an answer of
about £50-100k, and both would be accurate, but for different configurations.

Simon

On Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:49:49PM +, John Bourke wrote:
 Simon,
 
 Ok I am asking a dumb questions, I'll investigate more.
 
 Thanks
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Simon Lockhart [mailto:si...@slimey.org]
 Sent: 20 February 2014 14:38
 To: John Bourke
 Cc: uknof@lists.uknof.org.uk
 Subject: Re: [uknof] DWDM costs ?
 
 On Thu Feb 20, 2014 at 02:18:14PM +, John Bourke wrote:
  Any idea what customer site DWDM equipment costs for 4 or 8  wavelengths ?
 
 About £3.50 and a packet of rolos. :)
 
 Do you want active or passive? What speed are you running the waves at? Do 
 you need low-loss splitters?
 
 Too many variables to answer sensibly.
 
 Simon
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[uknof] Openreach B2B integration

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

I'm sure there must be at least one person on list who has done a successful
integration with Openreach's B2B gateway using in-house development.

I'm currently mid way through an integration, and starting to get a bit
frazzled trying to get my head around ebXML, particularly bits like the
XML Digital Signatures, etc.

For those who've been through this, and not just resorted to using a 
commercial ebXML implementation, would you be willing to share any hints,
tips and gotchas?

FWIW, I think that ebXML seems to be a fantastic demonstration of how
'standardisation' can result in massive over-complication :)

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] 10G London-Manchester

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Jan 06, 2014 at 03:00:58PM +, Charlie Boisseau wrote:
 You?re right - this is the same with all BT Openreach services - they provide
 a shelf, an NTE, dedicated monitoring etc. etc.  However BT Wholesale have
 the flexibility to do things in a more sensible way and are competing with
 the likes of SSE, Level3, Virgin etc. who all offer wavelength services on a
 per-port basis rather than a per-platform basis.

You'd think so, but I've just had a quote back from BTW for a 1G backhaul
circuit from a *BT exchange* (i.e. you can't really get more on-net than that,
can you?) to either a major Manchester or a London DC (you'd think that'd be
on-net, wouldn't you).

That'll be 11k/year for the 1G Etherway at the Exchange end, 12k/year for the
1G Etherway at the DC end, and 17k/year for the 1G Etherflow. Grand total 
~40k/year for 1G.

Even Vodafone (CW) and Virgin Media are not far off 50% of that price, and 
others like SSE or Exponential-E can be as low as 25% of the BTW price.

In what way is this competitive? :)

Simon

Re: [uknof] Messed up Telehouse cable run order - LC to SC adapters false economy?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Nov 25, 2013 at 03:15:34PM -0500, Will Hargrave wrote:
 I would use SC couplers (blue for single mode) + some 1m SC-LC patch leads, 
 and get on with life.

Genuine question - what's the difference between the blue and grey couplers?
Obviously one is designed for singlemode, and one for multimode, but I thought
that all they did was line up the two connectors and didn't actually get 
in-line with the fibre path.

Simon

[uknof] Punch-down tool for BT LLU Tiecables

[Simon Lockhart]

Question for those of you who've done LLU in BT Exchanges...

Having foolishly thought that BT Tiecables were punched down onto Krone
termination strips, and found that they're not, I'm now left seeking the right
tool.

According to the Openreach documentation:

If you have provided a HDF in the customer rack space area, it must meet the
same specifications as our standard HDF, i.e. it must use 3M Quante terminating
modules in blocks of 100 pairs as detailed below:

Part Number Comtec Part#Description
--- ---
79103-574 00774888  MCCS high density connectors


My Google skills are failing me, and there's a few different 3M tools that
might be the right thing.

Can someone point me in the direction of somewhere I can buy the right tool
for punching down onto the BT Tiecable terminations? (I've been advised by
my boss that I'm not allowed to just bribe a BT Engineer and steal their one)

Many thanks,

Simon

[uknof] BT Openreach OSA product

[Simon Lockhart]

All,

Whilst I await (somewhat slow) response from our Openreach account manager, can
I seek the advice of the collective...

When I try to get a quote for an OSA (FSP3000) on Openreach's portal, I'm
presented with several options...

Bearer Option:
- STD 1U Single
- STD 1U Standard
- STD 7U Standard
- RO1 7U
- RO2 1U Single
- RO2 1U Standard
- RO2 7U Standard

10GBit/s Wavelength:
- 10:1 Muxponder
- Enterprise 5 port
- Long Reach Single Port

All I want is a point-to-point 10GE link. Which options should I be choosing? :)

I *think* I want STD 1U Single and Enterprise 5 Port, but would appreciate
some confirmation from someone who's done this before... 

If I want to be able to add extra wavelengths in the future, should I choose
a different option up front?

I've tried reading the documentation on the Openreach website, and it's all
very detailed, but pretty much assumes you know what you're doing already.

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] BT Openreach OSA product

[Simon Lockhart]

Charlie,

Many thanks for your response (and also the other responses both on and off
list)

On Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 10:49:34AM +, Charlie Boisseau wrote:
 The 1U box has two slots (I assume the second one is reserved for the RO2
 resiliency option).  If you go for the 'single' option, that is all you get,
 whereas if you go for the 'standard' option you also get a filter tray that
 gives you capacity for up to 4 wavelengths (although you still need to pay
 BTO to open them up).  The 7U is the big boy that has capacity of up to 32
 wavelengths.

Okay - so if the 1U box has only 2 slots, how do you get more than 1
wavelength? Is it a seperate 1U box per wave, plus the 1U xWDM filter?
 
Given the 5 port Enterprise card and the 1 port long-reach card are fairly
close in price, is there any benefit to going with one over the other, if 
all I want is 10GE LAN PHY?

 The RO2 option is a resiliency option.  

Yes, I knew that, so probably shouldn't have included it in my original 
question :)

 The problem with OSA is it's huge overkill for basic 10gig applications (such
 as customer access tails).  We're all waiting with bated breath on Openreach
 replacing the old expensive 10Gig WES product with a newer 10Gig EAD, which
 I'm hoping will be as aggressively priced as the rest of their Ethernet
 portfolio.

Quite - what I need is a 10G version of the EAD (and in particular a 10G 
EAD-LA would be awesome), but the OSA seems to be the only sensible answer
at the moment from Openreach. I don't think the OSA is too badly priced on 
the annual rental side, but the install costs can be a bit ouchy.

Many thanks,

Simon

Re: [uknof] BT Openreach OSA product

[Simon Lockhart]

 Hope that makes sense :)

No, more confused now :)

I'm realising that the 1U option is quite new, and most people who have this
are used to the 7U option, which has different card options.

On Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 02:33:17PM +0100, Maria Blackmore wrote:
 On 22 October 2013 12:26, Simon Lockhart si...@slimey.org wrote:
  Okay - so if the 1U box has only 2 slots, how do you get more than 1
  wavelength? Is it a seperate 1U box per wave, plus the 1U xWDM filter?
 One slot is either 4 wavelengths and a pass through to the next card, or 5
 wavelengths.

On the pricing tool, I have to choose 1 port long reach, 5 port enterprise,
or 10:1 muxponder for each 10G wavelength.

None of those seem to match your description :)

 Each slot in the chassis can be another DWDM card, EDFA, a course splitter
 that goes to 4/5 channel cards, the channel cards themselves, plus
 management, and a transciever card that converts to your desired
 termination if required.

Not for the 1U chassis, according to 
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/opticalservices/downloads/FSP3000overviewslides.pdf
 

*confused*

Simon

Re: [uknof] Anyone got space in Liverpool Royal BT Exchange?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Tue Sep 24, 2013 at 11:07:27AM +0100, Simon Lockhart wrote:
 So, has anyone on-list unbundled Liverpool Royal (LVROY) exchange, and
 could offer me about 8U (i.e. an Openreach EAD chassis and a 1U switch) of
 space, and 1G or fractional 1G of L2 backhaul to either Manchester Williams
 House, or London Telehouse/Sovereign/Interxion? I'd be looking for the space
 for about 6-9 months while we unbundle the exchange ourselves, although the
 backhaul could be a longer term commitment for the right price.

I guess that's a no then :)

Extending the question a bit - any recommendations for carriers to talk to
for backhaul out of BT Exchanges, in the 1G-10G range? As well as Liverpool
Royal, I've got a list of 14 others that I'm likely to unbundle. I've got
pricing from SSE who have lit some of the ones I'm looking at. I've been
speaking to GEO who say they're in quite a lot of exchanges, but they want
to sell me dark fibre solutions rather than individual circuits/waves. I know
that Entanet and Exponential-E are in some exchanges, and am talking to them,
but initial requests reveal that they don't tend to have huge amounts of spare
capacity to sell. I'm also talking to BT Wholesale.

So, who else should I be talking to?

TIA,

Simon

[uknof] Anyone got space in Liverpool Royal BT Exchange?

[Simon Lockhart]

I know there's a few ISPs represented on-list who have unbundled some BT
Exchanges.

Despite telling everyone internally that unbundling an exchange takes about
6 months, I've been asked to come up with one by the end of the year for a
project.

So, has anyone on-list unbundled Liverpool Royal (LVROY) exchange, and
could offer me about 8U (i.e. an Openreach EAD chassis and a 1U switch) of
space, and 1G or fractional 1G of L2 backhaul to either Manchester Williams
House, or London Telehouse/Sovereign/Interxion? I'd be looking for the space
for about 6-9 months while we unbundle the exchange ourselves, although the
backhaul could be a longer term commitment for the right price.

Thanks in advance,

Simon

Re: [uknof] CW / Thus / Vodafone Wavelength Services

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 05:58:04PM +, Neil J. McRae wrote:
 Openreach have EBD also - if you tell you AM to drop me a note I will see
 what we have where you need it - in that location we me be more limited but I
 can have a look.

I've just been looking at this too, as $dayjob is starting to unbundle some
exchanges.

Although EBD is wavelength based, so you have a bit more flexibility what you
can run over it, be careful with the pricing. In my case, I found that a bunch
of 1G EADs between exchanges was cheaper than running 1G EBD's. And, one
frustration with EBD - it's all based around chains between the ASN's (i.e. 
smaller exchanges) and OHP's (i.e. major exchanges). In my case, I've got two
exchanges which are on the same chain back to an OHP where I also have a 
presence - but I don't seem to be able to take advantage of the chain - just
buy a wave from each ASN back to the OHP. 

GEO do have fibre into quite a lot of the BT exchanges - they provide backhaul
for one of the major LLU providers - and will sell you wavelengths (albeit on
your own dedicated fibres).

SSE are starting to dig fibre into a bunch more BT exchanges, and you might
find that Aberdeen is on the list as it's their stomping ground.

Alternatively, the likes of Enta or Expo-E have presence in a number of BT
Exchanges (particularly in cities).

Simon

Re: [uknof] BYOR?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:35:21PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote:
 Do you Bring Your Own Rack or take what a DC provides? What do others
 do? I guess it depends on the spec and your requirements?

Also depends what the DC allows. Some don't let you bring your own - you have 
to use what they supply.

By preference we'll supply our own racks.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Picking Data centres

[Simon Lockhart]

On Wed May 15, 2013 at 07:31:26PM +0100, Gavin Henry wrote:
 but really, how do you select things down south?

Easy, really:

- Who has space available
- Who is selling space at a price you're prepared to pay
- Of those, which has the best options for interconnecting with who you wish
  to interconnect to.

If you look at Telehouse, most people are taking space in West, just because
North and East are full.

Simon

Re: [uknof] Transit providers to avoid?

[Simon Lockhart]

Just as another datapoint:

+1 for NTT - good price, good service

Level3 is okay, but pricing hasn't been as competitive as others

We were about to contract with Intelliquent, but with the GTT acquisition 
announced last week, we're just waiting to see how that pans out.

The same 3 keep being mentioned - are there others that we should be 
considering? I wouldn't use Cogent (they're playing the race to the bottom
game), and I've never been too sure of HE - to me they seem to be almost trying
to play the same game as Cogent but in a different way.

Simon

On Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:26:05AM +0100, Mike Simkins wrote:
 found Intelliquent to be a bit unhelpful but that was NA not EU.  YMMV
 
 
 
 On 6 May 2013, at 13:30, Charl Tintinger ctintin...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 We used NTT in a previous company and their rates were good and their
 support decent too - worth a look.
 
 
 
 On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Neil J. McRae n...@domino.org wrote:
 
  a good test is to randomly phone their help desk and see how helpful they
  are. NTT won this test for me.
 
  Sent from my iPad
 
  On 6 May 2013, at 10:19, Gavin Henry ghe...@suretec.co.uk wrote:
 
   On Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:06:11AM +0100, Adrian Bool wrote:
   I suspect you'd get more of a response if you asked for more of a
  positive
   response; i.e. can anyone recommend a transit provider with low
  congestion,
   no over-provisioning, low latancy and high reliability?
  
   Add sensible cost to the list, and you'll probably get a list just as
  long
   as we've had so far :)
  
   Simon
  
   OK, switch it round then :-)
  
   I have NTT, Level 3 and Intelliquent on the list.
  
   Thanks.
  
   --
   Kind Regards,
  
   Gavin Henry.
   Managing Director.
  
   T +44 (0) 1224 279484
   M +44 (0) 7930 323266
   F +44 (0) 1224 824887
   E ghe...@suretec.co.uk
  
   Open Source. Open Solutions(tm).
  
   http://www.suretecsystems.com/
  
   Suretec Systems is a limited company registered in Scotland. Registered
   number: SC258005. Registered office: 24 Cormack Park, Rothienorman,
  Inverurie,
   Aberdeenshire, AB51 8GL.
  
   Subject to disclaimer at http://www.suretecgroup.com/disclaimer.html
  
   Do you know we have our own VoIP provider called SureVoIP? See
   http://www.surevoip.co.uk
  
   Did you see our API? http://www.surevoip.co.uk/api
  
  
 
 
 

-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain  Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] Transit providers to avoid?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:06:11AM +0100, Adrian Bool wrote:
 I suspect you'd get more of a response if you asked for more of a positive
 response; i.e. can anyone recommend a transit provider with low congestion,
 no over-provisioning, low latancy and high reliability?

Add sensible cost to the list, and you'll probably get a list just as long
as we've had so far :)

Simon

Re: [uknof] LINX80

[Simon Lockhart]

On 11 Feb 2013, at 19:53, James Bensley jwbens...@gmail.com wrote:

 Evening all,
 
 LINX80 is next week, is anyone here going? Presumably a fair few!

You'll probably find quite a few people off this list will be there - myself 
included. 

 I will be attending. It will be my first LINX meeting and I'll be on
 my own, so i'll be looking for a friendly face or two. If anyone wants
 to meet up for a coffee at the break times or a beer in the evening,
 drop me an email :)

Beer in the evening on the Monday is sorted. Follow the crowd to the sponsored 
social and you'll be plied with as much alcohol as you can tolerate - and 
perhaps a bit more for good luck. We're all a friendly bunch and most people 
will be more than willing to chat to you. 

As for the coffee breaks during the day, as a first time attendee you'll have a 
marker on your name badge and people will just come and talk to you an make you 
feel welcome. Everyone will be wearing a name badge so just look out for 
familiar names and introduce yourself. 

Simon

Re: [uknof] 2013 Submarine Cable Map

[Simon Lockhart]

I did the same with pbmtools :)

% for a in map-*-*.png; do pngtopnm $a  `basename $a .png`.ppm; done
% for a in {0..63}; do pnmcat -tb map-${a}-?.ppm map-${a}-??.ppm  
map-${a}.ppm; done
% pnmcat -lr map-?.ppm map-??.ppm  map.ppm
% pnmtopng map.ppm  telegeography-submarine-cables-2013.png

-rw-r--r-- 1 simonl simonl 95163357 Feb  3 23:53 
telegeography-submarine-cables-2013.png

Simon

On Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:44:08PM +, Simon Green wrote:
 Imagemagick is a fantastic suite of tools.
 
 montage ./* -tile 1x64 -geometry +0+0 png:- | montage -  -geometry +0+0
 -tile 64x1 ../assembled.png
 
 On 03/02/2013 23:05, James A. T. Rice wrote:
  for i in {0..63} ; do for j in {0..63} ; do wget -O map-$i-$j.png
  http://b.tiles.telegeography.com/maps/submarine-cable-map-2013/6/$i/$j.png
  ; done ; done 
 
 
 

-- 
Simon Lockhart |   * Server Co-location * ADSL * Domain Registration *
   Director|  * Domain  Web Hosting * Connectivity * Consultancy * 
  Bogons Ltd   | *  http://www.bogons.net/  *  Email: i...@bogons.net  * 

Re: [uknof] EFM DSLAM recommendations/costs

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:27:06PM +, Ben Ward wrote:
 I'm looking for low-cost, fairly dumb ADSL/EFM DSLAMs, data only, capable
 of user-side VLANs.  Some of the 24-port 1u devices look suitable, but I'd
 be interested in chassis too.

Interesting timing, because I'm going through exactly the same investigation
at the moment, althrough more on the ADSL than the EFM side.
 
 We have a number of Zhone MXK319s already deployed. The early days of
 deploying them were rage-filled with an inconsistent cli, off-by-one bugs
 and their occasionally forgetting how to do switching, but as long as you
 don't touch them them they just sit there.

I had a long discussion with Zhone's recommended reseller in the UK (The Kenton
Group) this morning. They have pointed me at both the MXK-319, and also their
1U 48 port boxes (DSL/Voice only) - MX-150 and MXP-150. On the EFM side, they
also recommended the Actelis Networks products.

http://www.microtel.co.uk/products/?cat=69

One thing which did surprise me is that the MXK-319 (even when fully populated
with 72 port ADSL2+ cards) works out more expensive per port than the MX-150.
Okay, you have a slightly lower support overhead with having thing in one 
chassis with one management interface, but I can work around that when we do
the integration into our OSS/BSS backend systems.

I was also looking at the Zyxel products (as mentioned by Neil) - they have
comparable products to the Zhone ones - IES-1248 for a 1U 48 port DSLAM/MSAN,
and the IES-5000 for a chassis based solution, which has a similar range of
linecard option to the Zhone (including ADSL2+ and SHDSL/EFM). I've not yet
managed to speak to Zyxel or a reseller about these yet (any recommended 
sales contacts?). Based on pricing found via google, the Zhone and Zyxel are
a similar price point.

The bloke from Kenton Group that I spoke to wasn't particularly complimentary
about the Zyxel products (but then, he was trying to sell me the Zhone stuff).

Simon

Re: [uknof] uknof Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22

[Simon Lockhart]

On Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 04:04:48PM +, Peter Knapp wrote:
 We used to use the Zyxels (both models) in NI a few years ago and spent a lot
 of time in Bracknell with Zyxel in the test labs - they are (maybe were) more
 than happy to welcome you on site there. However we had random hardware and
 lock up problems along with high port failure counts on them and eventually
 removed them in favour of Alcatel at considerable expense.

Peter,

Thanks for the feedback on Zyxel. How does Alcatel compare price wise to the
Zyxel? I tend to see the name Alcatel and think $$$, and also expect to pay
over the odds for support and a management platform to be able to run them -
but that's just gut feel rather than based on any actual numbers.

Simon

Re: [uknof] A dual stack London2012?

[Simon Lockhart]

On Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 05:41:06PM +0100, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:
 We've asked several people individually and nobody appears to really
 know. It wonder if anyone here knows definite answers on this. A no,
 no, no answer would be a real shame and an opportunity missed for the
 UK IT industry.

This was discussed at a recent LINX meeting, after a presentation from BT on
their network for Olympics 2012, and the answer is no, it will not be IPv6
enabled - it was considered too much risk for no technical gain (i.e. there's
nothing that can't be done on IPv4).

I'm sure that someone else on list (like Neil McRae) can expand on this...

Simon