Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dave Cragg]

On 6 Jun 2005, at 03:34, Dar Scott wrote:



On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:19 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:


I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that  
would allow me to ignore that error... is there any?


like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi"; without  
verification




I don't know of any.  I'm assuming Dave will jump in soon and give  
some advice on using libURL.  You might have to build your own post  
and then use open secure without verification.


I just woke up.


   Try the following:

   libUrlSetSSLVerification false

Cheers
Dave
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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[Mark Wieder]

Jon-

Sunday, June 5, 2005, 8:00:20 PM, Jacque wrote:

JLG> I went to your web page and read up on you. ;) Now that I've looked at
JLG> it, I agree, your viewer is not a standard viewer so I retract my other

Well, I got intrigued and I look in on things, too. I have to agree
with Jacque here - You can certainly do your image viewer in runrev,
but doing it in Transcript is going to be much too slow. You're going
to have to do your image processing in an external DLL for speed.
That's not only doable, but there's an example in the external sdk for
image processing.

However... it's going to complicate any plans you have for
cross-platform compatibility unless you write an external library for
each operating system you want to target. It's also going to
complicate your life a bit since you'll no doubt have to write this in
C. I don't know for sure about creating DLLs in Delphi, but I know
that Borland's C++ Builder can't create the proper format - you just
don't have enough control over the build options.

Sheesh - can't you start off with a *simple* project when you're
learning a new language and development environment? You're as bad as
I am...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Page set Up

[Yves COPPE]

Hi,

on Mac OS X, I'd like to make a "Page Setup" item in the file menu

How can I ask the page setup printing dlog just to set the page setup 
but not for printing something just afterwards ?


Thanks.


Greetings.

Yves COPPE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[Nicolas Cueto]

Hello.

Sorry to barge in what seems like a private conversation
between Jon and Jacqueline about lockLoc and image 
resizing but it's reminding me of a similar "problem" I had 
with one of my image-based stacks a long time back.

Once upon a time, while my young EFL learners and I were 
happily studying the English names of shapes using a 
concentration game stack, I was very surprised to hear
the word "rectangle" emitting from the PC speakers when
the image on-screen was very much a "square". 

Looking for the source of this mistake later on, I discovered 
that the culprit was the lockLoc setting of each image object,
Though the original image had indeed been a "rectangle", 
the lockLoc of the image object forced the "rectangle" to fill 
in the entire image object -- or, as Jon wrote, it scaled in both 
directions.

My solution then was to create a new rectangle image
file, with lots of white space at the top and bottom of
the rectangle.

But something Jacqueline wrote to Jon is making
me think that maybe there's another (easier!) way, 
i.e.:

> Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image 
> size. ;) Then it works okay.

"Calculate the dimensions"? Can someone explain how to do this
with RunRev? (Or is Jacqueline just joking? ;) )

Cause I have to agree with Jon that, at least sometimes, 
the image object's lockLoc property does cause an ugly
distortion of an original image file's size. 

So, if there's a way around this "ugliness" ...

Thanks.

Cheers,
Nicolas Cueto
niconiko language school
(J)

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OT: antivirus software and the like

[Mark Wieder]

Jon-

Sunday, June 5, 2005, 10:27:50 AM, you wrote:

J> Any particular reason why you use/like NOD32?

Everyone's got personal preferences about system software - it's like
text editor preferences - a lot of it depends on what you're used to.
I've had nothing but bad experiences with Symantec products over the
years. They have a track record of buying up companies with good
products and running them into the ground, among them Think C and the
Norton line of sofware. It's not for nothing that they've gotten the
moniker of "where software goes to die". (I suppose the same could
also be said of Computer Associates and Corel...)

The problem with utilities like antivirus software is that in order to
do their job they need hooks deep into the operating system - they'd
be too easy to get around otherwise. I got into the habit over time of
installing just a subset of Norton Systemworks on systems in order to
minimize the rate of the OS crashing, then finally decided that I
needed to find an alternative.

The final straw was when I tried to install the latest Norton
Systemworks on my newly-installed Windows 2000 Server.

Nope. Doesn't install on server products.

You need to buy the Corporate version. I don't know if you're familiar
with this particular piece of misbegotten bloatware, but its draconian
management features make Microsoft look benign. And the combination of
it with email clients can (and in my experience has) easily bring CPU
usage on a dual processor system to 100% and stay there.

When I first installed NOD32 on the server I ran Norton on a
workstation as a backup. Did this for about six months. Nothing ever
got past NOD32 to the point where Norton could even hiccup. I
eventually uninstalled Norton and I've been happy ever since. This is
not to say that there aren't other good antivirus programs out there,
just that I've found one that

a: works on my hardware
b: keeps my network safe
c: is easy to configure
d: mostly stays out of my way

We've never had a virus or a worm or a trojan in here.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: who's out there?

[Mark Wieder]

Brian-

Thanks. Well put.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

I don't think that it is the similar (or not) environment that some yearn
for; it's the eventual deliverability on Macs and PCs, in this case, with
the specificity of "over the web" being the point of interest.

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Brian Yennie wrote:

> Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't
> exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor to a
> frame metaphor barely even registers...
>
> I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar
> at all...

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

Andre:

EXACTLY!!!  De ja vous! Been there, heard that!!

(How can you tell I work at a publicly-funded university?)

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote:

> distance learning tool for those in rural areas. If you could just see
> the monster they created, imagine this: HTML + Microsoft Word
> documents. I tried to talk to them, it was something along this lines:
>
>   DIRECTOR: "So you think you have a better solution?"
>   ME: "Yes, I do. In PUC we had a very high level tool which is far more
> advanced than this one and far easier to work out"
>   DIRECTOR: "But it runs in a browser?"
>   ME: "No, it runs on itself."
>   DIRECTOR: "It needs to run in a browser!"
>   ME: "You know, browsers are not operating systems, things should not
> need to run in a browser..."
>   DIRECTOR: "Our current solution runs in a browser."
>   ME: "Your current solution is an index of word documents and email
> chatting. That is not a solution and will be a problem soon."
>   DIRECTOR: "If it does not runs in a browser, we're not interested."

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

Troy,

True enough. But equally, if not more, likely is the arena in which
web-delivered content is dogma.

I agree with Marian that, in many cases, those in decision-making
capacities lack the knowledge or interest in making an intelligent
decision in the matter.

Try spending 25 years in higher ed, and you'll be a grumpy old woman like
me ;-)

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Troy Rollins wrote:

> And often, they are quite correct. Standalones are not *always* a
> better solution. Frequently, that "convincing" is actually a
> self-serving way of saying "my development tool of choice has no
> support for browser delivery." Sadly, there are few tools which succeed
> at both forms of delivery.

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Re: who's out there?

[Sarah Reichelt]

I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how  
many of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't  
believe anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just  
too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform  
applications?  That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that  
I can't even imagine it.



Hi Jon,

I started as a hobbyist and progressed until a major portion of my  
day job is programming in Rev. I also do consulting on the side. I  
guess I am fortunate in that 99% of my work is done on and for Mac OS  
X so I don't have to worry too much about cross-platform stuff.


Before coming to HyperCard & then Rev, I taught myself many different  
languages. The lower the level of the language, the higher the  
potential for doing something catastrophic. When teaching myself C, I  
had to restart my computer every few minutes :-) While I would not  
say that Rev is perfect, it is very safe. I find it very rarely  
crashes in the IDE and almost never in standalones.


To answer your specific problems:
Buggy - well it has bugs (check out Bugzilla) but very few are show- 
stoppers and most have known workarounds if you ask the list.
Syntax idiosyncrasies - any new language must appear idiosyncratic at  
first, just because it is different to anything you have used  
previously. If you persevere, you will soon find yourself wondering  
how you ever used anything else :-)
Sloth - I take it from this that you are finding in too slow for your  
needs. There are many techniques for speeding up script execution. If  
there is any particular script or operation that you find is taking  
too long, please let us know and we may be able to point you towards  
a faster method.


Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Beyond the Browser (was Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???)

[Judy Perry]

I swear I'm gonna start making it required reading in my class, as my CS
majors (and probably alot of other people out there, too) are under the
impression that multimedia = web-delivered content = Flash or whatever.

Not that I'm knocking Flash (but I've sure seen plenty of completely
useless, non-compelling Flash stuff online), but I believe it is a
fundamental misunderstanding.

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote:

> did you know that I've got that article printed on glossy paper besides
> my desk... I read it every week.

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

Andre,

It's NOT about logic.  It's about dogma.

I agree with you.  But it's irrelevant.

It comes down to this:  Do we want some of these people to produce crappy
stuff with FrontPage; Do we want the somewhat geekier segment of them
doing maybe slightly less crappy stuff in Flash; or do we want them to
produce (maybe equally crappy) stuff in Rev that they can put online and
ooh and aahhh amongst themselves?

I'd rather see them buying Rev.  In droves.  Plenty of crap is produced
using Micro$oft Studio stuff, too.

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Andre Garzia wrote:

> inside a browser plugin is not a good idea in my opnion. People always
> talk, let us get Revolution on the web and stuff like that, I think
> Revolution is more than the web.



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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

Hi Klaus,

Yup; this is what I suspected it was.  And, while I agree, this simply
WILL NOT counter the 'web ueber alles' mentality.  Period. Too geeky, too,
I don't know what, too s not what's happening today or some such
thing.

In some (unmentioned) communities, it is all but a religious directive to
present content (a) on the web and/or (b) in a PowerPoint presentation.
That's it.  There's simply no reasoning intelligently with some of these
people.  Give them what they want so that we can stop hearing about it.

:-(

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Klaus Major wrote:

> Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible
> will get to read this!
>
> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html
>
> Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard!

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Judy Perry]

But, I thought that access to the Flash file format was the big reason why
we can't embed Flash files in Rev.

Probably, with the exception of a brave very few souls, most of the ed
community (and/or anyone else) doesn't give a flying, flaming fig about
Roadster.

But any sort of reasonably easy way to put Rev stacks on the web would add
to its appeal for certain communities of would-be users.  Definitely.

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Ken Ray wrote:

> I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running
> content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running
> them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating
> their own plugin.

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Re: Rev. User Groups in the USA?

[Rodney Somerstein]

I live in the Philadelphia area and would become a member of a local 
user group if such existed.


-Rodney

--
Rodney Somerstein Meditation... it's not what you think.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend;
  inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
  Groucho Marx

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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Bill Vlahos]

Andre,

I don't really know if people "need" this any more as I suspect that 
most have moved on to the UNIX way of doing things but it is very cool.


If you do implement it then I suspect a number of people would find it 
interesting.


Bill Vlahos

On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that cgis 
coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be 
usefull to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or receive 
ACGI calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this?


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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future??? - great idea!

[Judy Perry]

Yup.  It's the 'web ueber alles' mentality that is unfortunately
all-too-prevalent, especially in education.

I would like to see it done just so that we can say so.  Then let it be.
Get back to our standalones!!! ;-)

Judy

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Marian Petrides wrote:

> Can't answer the question being asked, but I'd like to add my support
> for web playback as a built-in (or plug-in) feature of Rev.  Even
> though I still strongly prefer using standalones for my own apps,
> there are plenty of folks out their (read consumers/administrators,
> etc.) who are now highly focused on web delivery.
>

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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Robert Brenstein]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web 
event and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is 
still online for those who wants to get rolling faster.


This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no 
unix background, which is required at least to some degree to 
handle an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service 
and it is surely more work to maintain.


Robert



Robert,

thanks for pointing me to this thread. I was so lazy a programmer in 
the MacOS 8.x days that I never understood how CGIs and HTTP and 
AppleEvents worked. I came to figure those things later in MacOS 9.x 
and then MacOS X (lucky me I came from linux so unix was something I 
was familiar). I remember seeing about ACGI but I could not 
understand the thing. Now I just downloaded MacHTTP and read the 
manual, it's so clear and I find the design so simple and yet very 
macintosh-esque. Could you send your starter.cgi for me to look? I 
am planning in stealing some ideas for the next installment of 
RevHTTPd.


MacHTTP works best under OS 8.6. Under OS 9, it has to be restarted 
once a while as it hits bugs in TCP.


My starter is on http://www.robelko.com/metacard/starter-cgi.html

Unfortunately, I just discovered that there is some weird problem 
with downloading the file. I have reported it already to my IPP and 
hope they fix it soon (the problem does not come from my doing). If 
they don't fix it within a couple days, I pull the file out from my 
archives and send by email. I should probably update it anyway since 
it seems to be still more or less regularly fetched by someone.


I actually have a lot more advanced version of that starter.acgi but 
keep delaying to make it available to others until I port it to OS X 
and fix a few known problems. It is basically a framework for simple 
content management system or extendable acgi, depending how one looks 
at it.



As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that 
cgis coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be 
usefull to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or 
receive ACGI calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this?


This would be a handy feature if it worked under OSX but it can't 
until Apache recognizes apps-in-folders as real apps under OSX. The 
acgi dispatcher is no rescue as it faces the same problem. This means 
that such a feature would be limited to OS8 and OS9. But having it 
will be just a few lines of code, so it may be worth your effort.


From what I heard from others, WebStar has some problems with such 
acgi's and it is doubtful that this will ever get fixed. I haven't 
tested this myself, though, because Webstar costs money, a chunk of 
money, whereas MacHTTP is free and open source (as aside, let me 
remind that WebStar is really a child of MacHTTP -- WebStar 1.0 
became what was supposed to be MacHTTP 3.0). There was even a spur of 
effort to port it to OSX but it fizzled away. Having OSX version of 
MacHTTP would allow us to run Rev-based cgi's as resident Mac apps 
offering a simple-to-use alternative to using sockets for inter-app 
communication (as Pierre always recommends :) and another alternative 
to Apache-style non-resident cgi's.


Robert
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Re: Alternating Sizes of a Drawer and a Regular Window

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Greg,

For reasons unknown to me, the following handler does not increase  
the height of the window to 538 when it is about to be displayed as  
a drawer.


Greg

drawer theStack

on preOpenStack
  if the mode of this stack is 13
  then
revChangeWindowSize 261,538
set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 12
  else
revChangeWindowSize 720,440
set the scrollbarWidth of fld "Hit List" to 16
set the loc of this stack to the screenLoc
  end if
  revUpdateGeometry
end preOpenStack


I solve this by resizing the drawer in my script before opening it. e.g.

on openAlarmsDrawer
  set the height of stack "Alarms" to the height of stack "Main" - 40
  drawer stack "Alarms"
end openAlarmsDrawer

It's always good to remember that you can refer to & edit stacks that  
are not yet officially open.


HTH,
Sarah

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Re: clear fields

[Sarah Reichelt]

on mouseUp
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
   put empty into fld x
end repeat
end mouseUp

Now this works ok except that the card has some labels and the  
script clears

the label contents.


I use this sort of script which only clears editable fields.

on mouseUp
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of flds
   if the lockText of fld x is false then put empty into fld x
 end repeat
end mouseUp


Sarah

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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 8:32 PM, Jon wrote:

> My viewer is not a standard viewer.  I've implemented a variety of
> useful features that require that I manage each pixel individually
> (basically doing custom and complex brightness and contrast
> stretching).  Rev is way too slow to do anything like that.

I went to your web page and read up on you. ;) Now that I've looked at 
it, I agree, your viewer is not a standard viewer so I retract my other 
comments. If you do have to manipulate pixels then the consensus is that 
Rev is too slow for larger images but okay for thumbnails and icons, 
etc. We had a thread about this in May:




>> When an image is locked this way, its
>> contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object
>> scaling to fit the image content.
>
> True, but it will scale in both directions, distorting it horribly.
> This is not useful behavior, unless you want to fill a large space with
> a small speck of blue.   It's ok for backrgounds, not for actual images.

Well, generally we calculate the dimensions before we set the image 
size. ;) Then it works okay.


>> As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to
>> false, the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions.
>
> As per above, the image will be impossible to see, since it will be so
> distorted

Images displayed at their native sizes don't distort; maybe I'm not 
understanding something.



> Maybe this is better left as a phone conversation 

Or we can wait until you get so enthusiastic about Rev that you forget 
what the learning curve was like. ;)



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

I've been thinking about your error.

On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:


 error -Error with certificate at depth: 1


The depth starts at 0.  The error is for the next depth, the signer.


issuer   = /C=ZA



/ST=Western Cape



/L=Cape Town



/O=Thawte Consulting cc



/OU=Certification Services Division



/CN=Thawte Server



CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]




subject  = /C=ZA



/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd.



/CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA




err 20:unable to get local issuer certificate


There are separate errors for expiration, but maybe expiration at this 
level is enforced by new CA certificates.


This sure looks like you have the wrong .pem, try the openSSL with a 
site you know will work.  You should not get the 20.


It might be that your server has a forged or old signature.

Dar

--
**
DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab)
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming and software
**

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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:19 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that would 
allow me to ignore that error... is there any?


like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi"; without 
verification


I don't know of any.  I'm assuming Dave will jump in soon and give some 
advice on using libURL.  You might have to build your own post and then 
use open secure without verification.


Can you post with your web browser?  Or at least get past the 
authentication?


Dar

--
**
DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab)
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming and software
**

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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 7:34 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

My guess is you could be thinking of WebStar (http://www.4d.com/ 
products/webstar.html).


Right. It had been so long I couldn't remember the name.

And per Robert's note, I did mean "AppleEvents", not "AppleScript". 
Blech, I should give up tonight. ;)





Dan

On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Jacque,
>
> do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev
> CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind The
> only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript
> middleware + Revolution app.

Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server  
software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database  
for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use  
AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a  CGI. 
HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to  the server.


Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any  server 
implementations for OS 9 for many years though.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote:


Maybe for this specific post you can.

Dar


Dar,

I haven't found any optional parameter to the post command that would 
allow me to ignore that error... is there any?


like: post myData to url "https://myserver/mycgi.cgi"; without 
verification


:-/
Andre


--
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Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: who's out there?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 6:20 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:

I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) 
runrev-only coding contest.
this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. The 
url for it is

http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre)


Any chance you could wait until after the Monterey conference? Many of 
us will be busy until that is over.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 7:30 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

I'd like to go like the open secure socket command where I can simply 
choose to ignore verification.


Maybe for this specific post you can.

Dar

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Re: who's out there?

[Dan Shafer]

Delphi has been around for more years than Rev. I remember very  
clearly going through some really, really buggy early experiences  
with that product as well.


And please don't misunderstand me. I agree there are issues in the  
IDE. The things you cited in your email have all been worked around  
by Rev developers and when you ask here how to deal with them, my  
experience is you get real answers. But when you're a programmer and  
your programs don't run and you can't be confident in the development  
environment you're using, that is not a good thing.



~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest

On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:22 PM, Jon wrote:

I've used Delphi for years and years.  It simply does not have this  
level of quirky, buggy behavior.


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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:40 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web event 
and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is still 
online for those who wants to get rolling faster.


This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no 
unix background, which is required at least to some degree to handle 
an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service and it is 
surely more work to maintain.


Robert



Robert,

thanks for pointing me to this thread. I was so lazy a programmer in 
the MacOS 8.x days that I never understood how CGIs and HTTP and 
AppleEvents worked. I came to figure those things later in MacOS 9.x 
and then MacOS X (lucky me I came from linux so unix was something I 
was familiar). I remember seeing about ACGI but I could not understand 
the thing. Now I just downloaded MacHTTP and read the manual, it's so 
clear and I find the design so simple and yet very macintosh-esque. 
Could you send your starter.cgi for me to look? I am planning in 
stealing some ideas for the next installment of RevHTTPd.


As of now, RevHTTPd is source compatible with libCGI meaning that cgis 
coded for libCGI will work out of the box in RevHTTPd, would be usefull 
to expand RevHTTPd so that it could launch ACGI and/or receive ACGI 
calls from MacHTTP and WebStar? Do people need this?


cheers
Andre

--
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Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[Jon]

J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 6/5/05 4:33 PM, Jon wrote:

My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image 
viewer/manipulator in Rev.  That ended with some finality when it 
turned out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process 
all of the pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would 
sit still.  Sigh.



You should be able to do this easily, and I know of several image 
viewers that others have done. It is a trivial task in Revolution, and 
very fast. There are so many image commands and features that you 
should never need to manipulate individual pixel data except in the 
most unusual cases. For a standard image viewer project, never.



My viewer is not a standard viewer.  I've implemented a variety of 
useful features that require that I manage each pixel individually 
(basically doing custom and complex brightness and contrast 
stretching).  Rev is way too slow to do anything like that. 



This is an excellent first-time project. It should be possible to 
write a simple image viewer in a handful of lines. You can display an 
image from disk in a single line of Transcript. You can set its size 
in one more line. What did you need to do exactly? Maybe we can help 
you finish this.



You can download my Windows image viewer if you root around in 
www.jonbondy.com a bit if you want to see the features I've 
implemented.  Image sizing is a very difficult thing in Rev: the default 
seems to be either 1:1 display (which often is too large to fit in the 
allocated space) or horrible distortion when the image is forced into 
the limits of the enclosure.  I can write software to fix all of this, 
but I decided to move on to another project (the audio/video player)






I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it 
from a Windows implementation.  It's almost finished (in the sense 
that all of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a 
lot of cosmetic work and then lots of testing.   I am displaying 
guitar tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen.  I want 
the image to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a 
fairly obvious need in my opinion).  So, I need to write (or steal!) 
the logic that figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and 
then adjust it, and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and 
unintuitive name!) to let it expand to fill the properly proportioned 
image container.



LockLoc is short for "lock location" and can also be written 
"locklocation". ;) It overcomes the default behavior of images, which 
is to automatically expand to fit their image contents.



This is not locking a location; it is altering the image expansion 
behavior.  I find some of this nomenclature to be very bizarre.




When you put an image from disk into an image object, it will 
automatically resize to fit the image content. If you do not want this 
behavior, you lock the location (that is, you prevent resizing) by 
setting the lockLoc to true. When an image is locked this way, its 
contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object 
scaling to fit the image content.



True, but it will scale in both directions, distorting it horribly.  
This is not useful behavior, unless you want to fill a large space with 
a small speck of blue.   It's ok for backrgounds, not for actual images.






A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code 
enough times that I'm sure I could figure it out again.  I am more 
annoyed that I even have to than anything else.



I have it somewhere but I'd have to go search for it. It isn't too 
hard though. You just get the width of the available space and the 
height of the available space, then compare them to see which is 
larger. Use the largest one to calculate a ratio. Multiply that ratio 
times the formattedwidth of the image to get the new width; multiply 
it times the formattedheight of the image to get the new height.


If you can't figure it out, post again and I will go look for it. I 
can't remember which project I put it in. ;)



Yeah: the logic is straightforward if you work it out.  I just feel as 
if this should be an intrinsic part of images.  And I ran into some huge 
bugs when I accidentally mixed an image with Geometry with an On Resize 
handler.






The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't 
know that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do.  
Because I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering 
the shape of the Image object each time an image is loaded.



As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to 
false, the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions.



As per above, the image will be impossible to see, since it will be so 
distorted




 Eventually, it will be easy to lose track of the original shape/size 
of the "container" into which I was trying to stuff the images.  
There is a concept missing here, I think: we need THR

Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:19 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

I wonder if what you are seeing is not your error, but the server's  
error.  The server might be expecting a certificate from the client.   
That would be reasonable in a situation like yours where you are using  
post.  However, I don't think Revolution can supply a certificate to a  
server, yet.  I don't know how to specify it if the ability is there.   
That is, maybe the server wants to know you are who you say you are,  
too.


That is, it looks like a problem in the local lookup, but "local" to  
whom?


Maybe you can sneak up on this.  Try getting a simple https page from  
a popular server.  Then try getting a page from the server in  
question.  If that fails, try it with a web browser; maybe the sever  
has a bad cert.  Try a post with some other tool.  Maybe then you have  
learned what you need to do the post.


I hope you get this solved before RevCon.  I can then pass all the  
hard SSL questions on to you!


Dar


Dar,

I begun to wonder the same thing also, but I discovered that it's not a  
server error message it is actually a openssl error message, trying to  
connect to the secure server using openssl command line tool yelded the  
following response (quoted from a much bigger output):


---
No client certificate CA names sent
---
SSL handshake has read 2202 bytes and written 340 bytes
---
New, TLSv1/SSLv3, Cipher is DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA
Server public key is 1024 bit
SSL-Session:
Protocol  : TLSv1
Cipher: DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA
Session-ID:  
DCB5B184CA7F0BC6D5D005543789AC455B27C951ED28322D5B5126292F1964B8

Session-ID-ctx:
Master-Key:  
4CB07308E672F65381DDABF8F4386DED97CC1482C3E8A25BE362157D01B1806395F07107 
697074B96D87316E937F3F59

Key-Arg   : None
Start Time: 1118014043
Timeout   : 300 (sec)
Verify return code: 20 (unable to get local issuer certificate)
---


the server connects and I am able to use HTTP commands to it, it  
appears that while the openssl commandline tool don't think that this  
error is a show stopper, Rev in the other hand will refuse to go  
forward. I checked bugzilla and saw that there was a thread that  
apparently asked for this behaviour saying that if the cert cannot be  
verified, rev should stop. I'd like to go like the open secure socket  
command where I can simply choose to ignore verification.


it will be a long night trying to solve this...

thanks
andre









--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: who's out there?

[Brian Yennie]

Jon,

Thanks for chiming in on these problems. From my perspective, both 
sides are right here. There are "safe paths" in the IDE which are quite 
stable- in fact, my normal use habits are well supported with virtually 
no problems. On the same token, the things you have found clearly ARE 
bugs and I hope they will be fixed promptly.


The good news is, I believe we're finding bugs more now because of the 
expanding user base for Rev. There are more new users than ever on the 
lists, and as defensive as some of the old hats (myself included!) can 
be, new user problems and criticisms are exactly what the product needs 
to make a run at the masses.


- Brian


Dan:

You said ""You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read 
all of the  messages on this list - including many from you in recent 
days - and  I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a 
single bug".


Well, two of them have been BugZilla'd by others on the list.

I'd say when an IDE simply disappears from the screen when you try to 
click on the Files menu; when Applys and Saves get so confused that 
the program won't run and that it is not clear what is going on; when 
I reposition an object and it starts dropping slowly down the screen 
until I kill the IDE; and when the IDE (REPEATEDLY) gets so compute 
bound that I have to kill it and start it up again.  Well, I look at 
these things as bugs.  I've used Delphi for years and years.  It 
simply does not have this level of quirky, buggy behavior.  Anyone who 
loves Rev should realize that this kind of behavior can only drive 
people away before they give the rest of the technology a chance.


That said, I'm still intrigued by Rev.
:)

Jon


Dan Shafer wrote:


Jon

I've created several commercial products for clients using  
Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac  
and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on  
Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues  
as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write  
once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking  
at programming languages and development environments, both for my  
own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can  
honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- 
platform software development tool available.


Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial  
products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in  
Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update  
them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and 
 do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of  
software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool  
I know about.


You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the  
messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and  
I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug.  
Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's  
confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to  
characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is  
simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to  
master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample  
eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered  
one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable  
software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do  
everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of  
95% of all software being written today above the system level, I  
challenge you to find a better solution.



On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote:


I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how  
many of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't  
believe anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just  
too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform  
applications?  That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that  
I can't even imagine it.




~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest


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Re: who's out there?

[Jon]

Dan:

You said ""You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all 
of the  messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - 
and  I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug".


Well, two of them have been BugZilla'd by others on the list.

I'd say when an IDE simply disappears from the screen when you try to 
click on the Files menu; when Applys and Saves get so confused that the 
program won't run and that it is not clear what is going on; when I 
reposition an object and it starts dropping slowly down the screen until 
I kill the IDE; and when the IDE (REPEATEDLY) gets so compute bound that 
I have to kill it and start it up again.  Well, I look at these things 
as bugs.  I've used Delphi for years and years.  It simply does not have 
this level of quirky, buggy behavior.  Anyone who loves Rev should 
realize that this kind of behavior can only drive people away before 
they give the rest of the technology a chance.


That said, I'm still intrigued by Rev. 


:)

Jon


Dan Shafer wrote:


Jon

I've created several commercial products for clients using  
Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac  
and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on  
Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues  
as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write  
once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking  
at programming languages and development environments, both for my  
own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can  
honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- 
platform software development tool available.


Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial  
products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in  
Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update  
them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and  
do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of  
software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool  
I know about.


You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the  
messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and  
I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug.  
Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's  
confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to  
characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is  
simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to  
master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample  
eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered  
one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable  
software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do  
everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of  
95% of all software being written today above the system level, I  
challenge you to find a better solution.



On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote:


I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how  many 
of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't  believe 
anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just  too 
buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform  
applications?  That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that  
I can't even imagine it.




~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest


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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

 error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = 
/C=ZA/ST=Western Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting 
cc/OU=Certification Services Division/CN=Thawte Server 
CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = /C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting 
(Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 20:unable to get local issuer 
certificate


or they return

 error Error loading CA file and/or directory 
/Users/andregar/Desktop/thawte-roots/Thawte Code Signing CA.cer


I wonder if what you are seeing is not your error, but the server's 
error.  The server might be expecting a certificate from the client.  
That would be reasonable in a situation like yours where you are using 
post.  However, I don't think Revolution can supply a certificate to a 
server, yet.  I don't know how to specify it if the ability is there.  
That is, maybe the server wants to know you are who you say you are, 
too.


That is, it looks like a problem in the local lookup, but "local" to 
whom?


Maybe you can sneak up on this.  Try getting a simple https page from a 
popular server.  Then try getting a page from the server in question.  
If that fails, try it with a web browser; maybe the sever has a bad 
cert.  Try a post with some other tool.  Maybe then you have learned 
what you need to do the post.


I hope you get this solved before RevCon.  I can then pass all the hard 
SSL questions on to you!


Dar

--
**
DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab)
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming and software
**

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Richard Gaskin]

Brian Yennie wrote:
Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't 
exist in Flash.


Similarly, the majority of Rev apps use feature that aren't possible in 
a browser.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Troy Rollins]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:03 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that 
don't exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor 
to a frame metaphor barely even registers...


I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar 
at all...


Exactly. And it isn't just the environments... it is the distributable 
file too. SWF is a compiled format, based in OOP and a vector display 
engine, with a security sandbox. Rev is non-oop procedural, with native 
controls. They simply don't translate well.


I can only imagine the hideous SWFs it would create *AFTER* obeying the 
HUGE list of caveats which would be required. The whole thing would be 
so crippled, that no one would actually use it. Can you even imagine 
the debugging process? Suffice it to say that only the most moronically 
simple Rev project could even hope to survive the conversion.


Spend far more than the available resources, to do a poor job of 
publishing to a competitor's proprietary runtime format, which 
incidentally has very little in common with Rev at all... sure!! 
Keeping in mind that Adobe could change the SWF plugin on a whim, 
leaving Rev, where?


Noble, perhaps, but the whole idea makes no (business) sense 
whatsoever.  And after all, Flash isn't so hard to learn...

--
Troy

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Re: Slider appearence

[Pat Trendler]

Buddy,

Go to Development - Revolution Online - User Spaces - Klausimausi - custom 
volume slider.


Could be what you want.

Pat

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Slider appearence




I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider 
bar,
for example, making bar an image that you made and the dot you drag too? 
Or

does it have to be like its original look?

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Brian Yennie]

Simply put, the majority of Revolution projects use features that don't 
exist in Flash. Not to mention that moving from a card metaphor to a 
frame metaphor barely even registers...


I think it's a noble idea, but the two environments are hardly similar 
at all...



Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:


I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime
soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed.
What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon?


The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the
concept is coming from.


How do you mean dissimilar?  The interface is certainly dissimilar,
but the end product can be identical.  Why can't RR offer an
option for saving standalone apps as OS X, Win, Unix or SWF?
(yes, I know swf isn't a "standalone", but it's a separate document
that plays in the browser.)

Now, I don't get into the intricacies of RunRev -- I don't use
sockets with it, or any internet protocol stuff -- but for what
we do in my class, being able to save as a shockwave (flash) file
would be fantastic.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Robert Brenstein]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:05 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as 
database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving 
some 1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for 
inter-program communication.


Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is 
actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some 
more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding 
service.


Robert



Robert,

nice, so you can just add an appleevent handler in your rev app and 
you're good to go?


man, that would be very nice.

cheers
andre



Yes, all you need is an appleevent handler that checks for web event 
and replies to it by sending html page. My old starter.cgi is still 
online for those who wants to get rolling faster.


This solution is particularly easy to implement for people with no 
unix background, which is required at least to some degree to handle 
an Apache setup. I am also running Apache/PHP/MySQL service and it is 
surely more work to maintain.


Robert
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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 4:14 AM, jbv wrote:


Hi list,

I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the
following task :
I have a variable containing reference words; each "word"
in this variable is considered as an item.
I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a
list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each
sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference,
as well as other words.

I need to determine for each sentence, which words from
the reference are included in it, in which order, and output
a list of offsets.
For example :
reference variable :  W1,W2,W3,W4
sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3
output : 2,3

And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that
contain more than 1 word from the reference.


My stab at it:

function calcwords tReference,tSentence
  --  tReference should be the comma-delimited word list, i.e.: "w1,w2,w3"
  --  tSentence is the user's space-delimited entry, i.e.: "wx w2 wy wz w3"
  put tReference into tRef -- so we can manipulate a copy
  replace comma with comma & cr in tRef
  split tRef by cr and comma
  replace space with comma & cr in tSentence
  split tSentence by cr and comma
  intersect tSentence with tRef -- it now has the right keys

  repeat for each line l in keys(tSentence)
put itemoffset(l,tReference) & comma after tOutput
  end repeat
  delete last char of tOutput -- the comma
  if comma is in tOutput then return tOutput
  else return empty
end calcwords

I didn't time it but it seems like it should be faster.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Dan Shafer]

My guess is you could be thinking of WebStar (http://www.4d.com/ 
products/webstar.html).


Dan

On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Jacque,
>
> do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev
> CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind The
> only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript
> middleware + Revolution app.

Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server  
software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database  
for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use  
AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a  
CGI. HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to  
the server.


Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any  
server implementations for OS 9 for many years though.


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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 9:05 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as 
database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving some 
1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for inter-program 
communication.


Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is 
actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some 
more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding 
service.


Robert



Robert,

nice, so you can just add an appleevent handler in your rev app and 
you're good to go?


man, that would be very nice.

cheers
andre


--
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http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[Robert Brenstein]

On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:


 Jacque,

 do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev
 CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind The
 only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript
 middleware + Revolution app.


Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server 
software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database 
for a school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use 
AppleScript to communicate between the server and HyperCard as a 
CGI. HyperCard then formulated HTML pages and sent those back to the 
server.


Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any server 
implementations for OS 9 for many years though.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



I have a client still running a Rev-based CGI (with Valentina as 
database) behind MacHTTP under OS9 and works just dandy, serving some 
1500 users. AppleEvents (not AppleScript) are used for inter-program 
communication.


Such a setup will work just fine under 8.6 on beige 233. It is 
actually possible to run this (yes, 8.6) on early G4's to get some 
more cpu power. Perfect use for older hardware for less demanding 
service.


Robert
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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 4:33 PM, Jon wrote:

My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image 
viewer/manipulator in Rev.  That ended with some finality when it turned 
out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process all of the 
pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would sit still.  
Sigh.


You should be able to do this easily, and I know of several image 
viewers that others have done. It is a trivial task in Revolution, and 
very fast. There are so many image commands and features that you should 
never need to manipulate individual pixel data except in the most 
unusual cases. For a standard image viewer project, never.


This is an excellent first-time project. It should be possible to write 
a simple image viewer in a handful of lines. You can display an image 
from disk in a single line of Transcript. You can set its size in one 
more line. What did you need to do exactly? Maybe we can help you finish 
this.




I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it from 
a Windows implementation.  It's almost finished (in the sense that all 
of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a lot of 
cosmetic work and then lots of testing.   I am displaying guitar 
tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen.  I want the image 
to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a fairly obvious 
need in my opinion).  So, I need to write (or steal!) the logic that 
figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and then adjust it, 
and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and unintuitive name!) to let 
it expand to fill the properly proportioned image container.


LockLoc is short for "lock location" and can also be written 
"locklocation". ;) It overcomes the default behavior of images, which is 
to automatically expand to fit their image contents.


When you put an image from disk into an image object, it will 
automatically resize to fit the image content. If you do not want this 
behavior, you lock the location (that is, you prevent resizing) by 
setting the lockLoc to true. When an image is locked this way, its 
contents will *scale* to fit the image object, rather than the object 
scaling to fit the image content.




A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code enough 
times that I'm sure I could figure it out again.  I am more annoyed that 
I even have to than anything else.


I have it somewhere but I'd have to go search for it. It isn't too hard 
though. You just get the width of the available space and the height of 
the available space, then compare them to see which is larger. Use the 
largest one to calculate a ratio. Multiply that ratio times the 
formattedwidth of the image to get the new width; multiply it times the 
formattedheight of the image to get the new height.


If you can't figure it out, post again and I will go look for it. I 
can't remember which project I put it in. ;)




The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't know 
that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do.  Because 
I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering the shape of 
the Image object each time an image is loaded.


As per above, if you leave the lockloc of the image object set to false, 
the image will automatically resize to the native dimensions.


 Eventually, it will be 
easy to lose track of the original shape/size of the "container" into 
which I was trying to stuff the images.  There is a concept missing 
here, I think: we need THREE image sizes (pixel size on disk, size of 
largest space available on the screen, and actual space used on the 
screen) rather than the two (first and last, above) that is currently 
available.  I'm spoiled: all of this was available in a single mode 
property in my previous IDE.


I'm not sure what you are after exactly, but these can all be retrieved.

Pixel size on disk: formattedwidth and formattedheight of the image.

Space available on screen: you'll have to calculate that, or if it is 
always the same, store it as a constant, a property or a variable, etc.


Actual space used on screen: you can get either the rect of the image, 
or you can get the width and the height of the image. This represents 
the actual current size of the image object.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Marty Billingsley]

Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:
>
> > I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime
> > soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed.
> > What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon?
>
> The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the
> concept is coming from.

How do you mean dissimilar?  The interface is certainly dissimilar,
but the end product can be identical.  Why can't RR offer an
option for saving standalone apps as OS X, Win, Unix or SWF?
(yes, I know swf isn't a "standalone", but it's a separate document
that plays in the browser.)

Now, I don't get into the intricacies of RunRev -- I don't use
sockets with it, or any internet protocol stuff -- but for what
we do in my class, being able to save as a shockwave (flash) file
would be fantastic.

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
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Re: who's out there?

[Dan Shafer]

Jon

I've created several commercial products for clients using  
Revolution, going back to 1.1, and they all had to run on both Mac  
and Windows. I am a Mac guy, so I did all the development work on  
Macintosh. While you can run into some fairly well-documented issues  
as you move across platforms, a huge percentage of what you write  
once will run anywhere. I've spent a good part of my career looking  
at programming languages and development environments, both for my  
own use and in writing books and doing technology assessment. I can  
honestly say that Revolution is, hands down, the most seamless cross- 
platform software development tool available.


Over the next four months I will release four of my *own* commercial  
products on Mac and Windows, and all of them will be done in  
Revolution. I will be able to deliver them over the Web, auto-update  
them transparently, offer professional installation capabilities, and  
do all the other things you'd expect from a professional piece of  
software. All at a fraction of the time investment of any other tool  
I know about.


You say the Revolution IDE "is just too buggy." I've read all of the  
messages on this list - including many from you in recent days - and  
I can't honestly say I've seen you report or describe a single bug.  
Quirks, yes; all development environments have those. Stuff that's  
confusing, to be sure. Need for improvement, absolutely. But to  
characterize it as "buggy" given what I have read from you here is  
simply going too far. I know how frustrating it can be trying to  
master this environment (that's why I wrote a book and some sample  
eChapters about it) but I can't honestly say that I've encountered  
one thing I needed to do to create a professional looking, usable  
software application and couldn't do in Revolution. It doesn't do  
everything and it's not suited to all problems, but for upwards of  
95% of all software being written today above the system level, I  
challenge you to find a better solution.



On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote:


I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how  
many of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't  
believe anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just  
too buggy, syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform  
applications?  That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that  
I can't even imagine it.




~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest


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Re: who's out there?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 11:05 AM, Jon wrote:

I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of 
you just play with it.


I make a living with it, and have for many, many years. You can see some 
examples of software I've done with Revolution (and MetaCard before it) 
if you go to my web site and look at the "Solutions" section.


You are in the hardest phase right now -- learning a new paradigm and 
overcoming the older IDE you are used to. It will get much easier soon. 
You have to do a thought-shift.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Slider appearence

[Buddyb3ar22]

 
I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider bar, 
for example, making bar an image that you made and the dot you drag too? Or 
does it have to be like its original look?

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Re: running rev cgi on Mac OS 8.6 Personal web server?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/5/05 11:01 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Jacque,
>
> do you remember any MacOS Classic webserver that is able to run Rev
> CGIs? I am trying to remember here but nothing comes to mind The
> only thing I remember is that you can glue WebServer + Applescript
> middleware + Revolution app.

Right, that is all I remember too. I worked with Apple's web server 
software and HyperCard and Mac OS 7.5 to create an online database for a 
school district many years ago. And yes, we needed to use AppleScript to 
communicate between the server and HyperCard as a CGI. HyperCard then 
formulated HTML pages and sent those back to the server.


Rev could work the same way, I imagine. I haven't written any server 
implementations for OS 9 for many years though.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: RevOnlline Viewer connect problem

[Alex Tweedly]

Ray Stace wrote:


I have asked RevSupport the following question, without luck so far, and
Jacqueline suggested I also try the group: maybe someone here knows the
answer...

I have updated to Revolution 2.5.1, but cannot get any network connections
to work from within Revolution [revOnline Viewer] so cannot access any of
the channels in that utility.

RevOnline viewer says ³There was an error while contacting the server.
Please ensure that you have an active internet connection, and try again in
a few moments.²
I do have an active connection.

RevNet says ³Check network connection and proxy setup in Preferences².
I have set up proxy correctly, [HTTP proxy: proxy.uow.edu.au:8080].

Computer setup:
Mac OS X 10.3.7
Revolution 2.5.1
Yes, I am behind a firewall, but all other network connections work
correctly with a variety of browsers.

Why can¹t Revolution connect?
 



It's unlikely - but may be worth trying this .
I had a vaguely similar problem (trying to connect to "My Space" on 
RevOnline, not RevOnline in general).  We never did get a definitive 
answer to what the problem was - but amongst the suggestions Mark W. 
made then were




One thing springs to mind, it might be that your version of the 'My 
Space'
channel is out of date. Have you chosen the 'never check for updates' 
option

in the preferences?

If you have, then please try changing to 'once per session' and restart
Revolution to ensure it downloads the new versions of the channels.

If this doesn't work, please can you try deleting the Revolution 
preferences
folder - it might be that there has been a strange interaction between 
the
beta and the release versions. The actual location of this varies 
among the

difference windows versions, but you can find out by doing:
 put specialFolderPath(0x001a) in the message box. This directory will 
then contain a directory 'Revolution'

that you should delete.


I had indeed checked the "never check for updates - because I was having 
troubles due to Bugzilla 2117; unchecking that was probably part of the 
solution.


We resolved my problem with a combination of resetting things, deleting 
the preferences as above and, I'm afraid to say, turning off my firewall 
for 10 seconds. In that 10 seconds, I connected once to RevOnline - and 
immediately re-enabled the firewall. Thereafter, everything worked just 
fine. There is no reason we could think of why that temporary disabling 
of the firewall should help - and it may be that it didn't, it might 
have been coincidence that that was the time it just worked.  (I was on 
a Win2000 box, connecting via a Windows XP machine with Win XP Firewall 
enabled).



In case it helps, the support ticket number was 200409041000615  (last 
September)



--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: who's out there?

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:20 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:

I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) 
runrev-only coding contest.
this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. 
The url for it is

http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre)


you're welcome!!


cheeers
andre

--
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Re: who's out there?

[Dan Shafer]

Well, then perhaps one question is whether there needs to be clearer  
pointing to this list for users who are new to the process?



~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest

On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


getting to
that point without this list to help ain't easy.



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Re: who's out there?

[Brad Borch]

Hi,

I'm a professional multimedia producer, and I'm planning to produce a 
language learning CD using Revolution. My only other options are Flash, 
which supports Unicode but has a truly impossible IDE for anything but 
animations, and Director, which doesn't do Unicode.


I haven't done any cross-platform testing yet, but I'm betting 
Revolution will do the job... at least I sure hope it does :-o


I looked at it when v2 came out, and at that time is was much buggier. 
All I can say about RR is that I can do in one line of code what would 
take me a few dozen in anything else--if it were even possible.


Björnke von Gierke wrote:



On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote:

I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many 
of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't believe 
anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just too buggy, 
syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications?  
That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even 
imagine it.




I started developing with runrev 1.1.1, after being spoiled by hypercard 
in my young years. I am a hobbyist, but made a cross platform web chat, 
which now runs in 2 commercial applications (not made by me)
I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) 
runrev-only coding contest.
this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. The 
url for it is

http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre)

greetings
Björnke



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Re: who's out there?

[Björnke von Gierke]

On Jun 05 2005, at 18:05, Jon wrote:

I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many 
of you just play with it.  I'm at the point where I can't believe 
anyone could use it to do serious development.  It is just too buggy, 
syntax idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications?  
That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even 
imagine it.



I started developing with runrev 1.1.1, after being spoiled by 
hypercard in my young years. I am a hobbyist, but made a cross platform 
web chat, which now runs in 2 commercial applications (not made by me)
I am also in the process of making the first (as far as i know) 
runrev-only coding contest.
this or next week i will announce the details of the coding contest. 
The url for it is

http://contest.wecode.org (thanks andre)

greetings
Björnke

--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.cjb.net

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Brian Yennie]

Here's one off-the-cuff idea, dunno how it will stack up.

## create an array that looks like
## array['word1'] => 1, array['word2'] => 2, etc
repeat for each item W in wordList
   put wordNum into wordArray[W]
end repeat

## loop through sentences
repeat for each line l in tSentences
   put 1 into tOffset

   ## check each word
   repeat for each word tWord in l

  ## quick array check to see if we want this word
  ## note: "it" now contains the number of the word we found
  get wordArray[tWord]
  if (it is not empty) then put tOffset&comma after tResultLine

  add 1 to tOffset
   end repeat
   if (tResultLine is not empty) then put (char 1 to -2 of 
tResultLine)&cr after tResults

end repeat
delete last char of tResults

Hope it helps- no time to test out, but the idea is hopefully clear.


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Audio problems

[Brad Borch]

I can't get any settings but RAW codec to record. I get static or worse 
with other settings. I also can't get MP3's to play from within 
Revolution. I'm using Dreamcard 2.5.1 on a Mac 10.3.9, Quicktime 7.


Brad

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Re: bug

[Pat Trendler]

After Step 11 this time - msg window now says 122


Pat

Did you (or could you, please) try the sequence one more time. This 
time, do not try the ctrl-S after step 8, which should be equivalent to 
what I am able to do. So simply do

...
8. edit the script, replacing "2" by "3"
9. click on the window border of the main stack
10. in the main menu, select File/Save [or hit ctrl-S] (and see / click 
to remove  the "saving ... " box)

11. run it again - msg window now says   12?

Thanks,
-- Alex.


- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Tweedly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: bug



Pat Trendler wrote:


I ran twice just to make sure. Win XP Rev 2.5.1

Step 8. Ctrl-S worked OK. Apply btn was greyed out.

Interesting. Wonder why it doesn't work on my machines (same on both XP 
machines I have here - and I think it was the same on my old Win2000 
machine, but can't confirm it till I get home at the end of the week ...)



Step 11. Msg box was 123. Apply btn no longer active.



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RevOnlline Viewer connect problem

[Ray Stace]

I have asked RevSupport the following question, without luck so far, and
Jacqueline suggested I also try the group: maybe someone here knows the
answer...

I have updated to Revolution 2.5.1, but cannot get any network connections
to work from within Revolution [revOnline Viewer] so cannot access any of
the channels in that utility.

RevOnline viewer says ³There was an error while contacting the server.
Please ensure that you have an active internet connection, and try again in
a few moments.²
I do have an active connection.

RevNet says ³Check network connection and proxy setup in Preferences².
I have set up proxy correctly, [HTTP proxy: proxy.uow.edu.au:8080].

Computer setup:
Mac OS X 10.3.7
Revolution 2.5.1
Yes, I am behind a firewall, but all other network connections work
correctly with a variety of browsers.

Why can¹t Revolution connect?

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Alex Tweedly]

jbv wrote:


I don't want to waste too much of your time,


don't worry - this is a perfect excuse to avoid doing any *real* work - 
like documentation, testing, ...



but may I ask what other approach you have in mind (in a few words) ?


Nothing else that has properly coalesced into "an idea" yet - just wild 
thoughts .


build a regex, use that to filter the sentence list to only those which 
have at least one matching word, then apply the above algorithm


replace each (word in the ref list) by a matching symbol throughout the 
sentence list, then use filter to remove non matching sentences   (e.g.



 put 0  into count
 repeat for each item W in myReference
add 1 to count
replace W by ":"&count in mySentences
 end repeat
 filter mySentences by "*:*:*"


(this would perhaps be worth pursuing if the ref list is usually small - 
at 30 words, I doubt it has much chance)


I'm sure there are others  but even these two are kind of long shots.

And after that, there's always a large glass of 25-year malt and a soak 
in the hot tub to come up with more ideas  :-)


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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

There are some important differences between 2.5 and 2.5.1 in the 
handling of certificates.  I don't know if that would apply to your 
problem.


Dar


Dar,

sorry I forgot to type the revision number, this is 2.5.1rc2

cheers
andre

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Re: dump newbie image questiosn

[Jon]

John:

Yes, I'm interested.

My first learning project was to replicate my Windows image 
viewer/manipulator in Rev.  That ended with some finality when it turned 
out that Rev runs so slowly that it cannot possibly process all of the 
pixels in a real image in the time a reasonable user would sit still.  Sigh.


I'm now working on a special music/video player, again "porting" it from 
a Windows implementation.  It's almost finished (in the sense that all 
of the features seem to work at least once!), but needs a lot of 
cosmetic work and then lots of testing.   I am displaying guitar 
tablature in an image along the bottom of the screen.  I want the image 
to "squeeze" into the given box, but NOT be distorted (a fairly obvious 
need in my opinion).  So, I need to write (or steal!) the logic that 
figures out which dimension needs to be adjusted, and then adjust it, 
and then use the LockLoc (what a strange and unintuitive name!) to let 
it expand to fill the properly proportioned image container.


A snippet of code would suffice, although I've written this code enough 
times that I'm sure I could figure it out again.  I am more annoyed that 
I even have to than anything else.


The Geometry facility is interesting (and novel to me), but I don't know 
that it will work at all with the kinds of things I want to do.  Because 
I don't want to distort any images, I will end up altering the shape of 
the Image object each time an image is loaded.  Eventually, it will be 
easy to lose track of the original shape/size of the "container" into 
which I was trying to stuff the images.  There is a concept missing 
here, I think: we need THREE image sizes (pixel size on disk, size of 
largest space available on the screen, and actual space used on the 
screen) rather than the two (first and last, above) that is currently 
available.  I'm spoiled: all of this was available in a single mode 
property in my previous IDE.


:)

Jon

John Ridge wrote:


Did you get any response to this query? If so, I've missed it - no surprise,
given the volume!

I got interested in the issue, and have been playing with the lockLoc
property of the image. I do find the language confusing - the "image" is the
control within which you display a JPEG (say). When lockLoc is true, the
image (the control) stays as is, and the picture is forced to fit within it
- which can lead to  massive distortion, of course. When lockLoc is false
(the default) the picture arrives in its native size - so your image may
turn out to be a small window into it. You can grab the image and slide it
around under the window. I've also done a ShrinkToFit handler, but I bet
there are better ways of doing the job!

If you're interested, I can send the stack to the User Space, or
somewhere...

Regards,
John
 



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Re: who's out there?

[Mark Wieder]

Dennis-

Sunday, June 5, 2005, 11:26:28 AM, you wrote:

DB> quirks and bugs.  My beef is that it is the casual user --the ones
DB> that can make or break a company by virtue of their numbers --that
DB> will not put up with getting slapped 4 or 5 times on his first day of
DB> use.  He will give up and look elsewhere unless he has a lot of  

Thank you.

I've been saying something similar for a long time. There are at least
two classes of new users who need the IDE tweaked (even without fixing
the bugs): professional programmers and casual users. Each needs
different but not conflicting changes made to the IDE in order to get
past that initial learning curve and give them the impetus to keep on.
Once they get to that "Eureka!" moment they're hooked, but getting to
that point without this list to help ain't easy.

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[jbv]

Alex,

> your original algorithm took 305 millisecs (once I remembered to set
> wholeMatches to true !!)
> using the array split method as above took 28 millisecs  (including the
> time to set up and split the array)

Thanks for the suggestion...
I'll try to modify my script (early tomorrow morning) and see if
it improves...

>
> Hope that's fast enough - but if not, let me know and I'll try another
> approach 
>

I don't want to waste too much of your time, but may I ask
what other approach you have in mind (in a few words) ?

Thanks again,
JB

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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:


It's Rev 2.5 rc 2 here.


There are some important differences between 2.5 and 2.5.1 in the 
handling of certificates.  I don't know if that would apply to your 
problem.


Dar

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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

Mark,

thank god you're here.

Yes, I have the Thawte Certs, all of them, none of them works. They all 
return the same:


 error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = /C=ZA/ST=Western 
Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services 
Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = 
/C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 
20:unable to get local issuer certificate


or they return

 error Error loading CA file and/or directory 
/Users/andregar/Desktop/thawte-roots/Thawte Code Signing CA.cer


which I think it's okay since it's the wrong cert.

I even simplified my code to:

  answer file "where's it?"
  set the sslcertificates to it
  get the unicodetext of fld 1
  put simpleencode(it) into tOr
  get the cOrderRequestTemplate of this stack
  replace "%ORDER%" with tOr in it
  put it into fld 2
  post it to URL "https://"
  put it && the result into fld 3

and it returns that error about not being able to get local issuer...

any clue?
Andre

PS: ... I just redownloaded the Thawte certs and tested them all again, 
no good. It's Rev 2.5 rc 2 here.



On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote:


Hi Andre,

[ Thought I posted this yesterday but it must have been from a non-list
friendly email-address... ]

Have you tried the Thawte Root Certificate (of the appropriate hue)?

http://www.thawte.com/roots/

Every Certificate Authority (CA) has a different root certificate that
is needed locally for interaction with an HTTPS which has that 
authority

as it's root authority.

Any certificate that has been issued actually represents a chain of
trust: the issued certificate is signed by some trusted entity which
then has its certificate signed by another trusted entity etc. etc.
right up til something gets signed by a Certificate Authority.

Roughly, the SSL library will request certificates in turn for each 
step

in the chain, verifying as it goes. However, when it gets to the end of
the chain it has no-one to ask to verify the final (CA) certificate and
so it must verify it against a local copy.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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   Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Alex Tweedly]

Alex Tweedly wrote:




Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of
these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would
excel at both ends of the spectrum .

I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the
characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue 
.

e.g.   build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences,
where the content of the array element is the word number within the
references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... 
should be

faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the
number of words in myReferences is very small.

  



The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable :
the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived 
from a

sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection
a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other
sentences in a data base...

 


Still feasible ( typing straight into email - typos possible )

put empty into myArray
put 0 into count
repeat for each item W in myReference
   add 1 to count
   put W && count & cr after myArray
end repeat
split myArray by CR and space

I'll try some simple experiments based on the figures you gave 
more later.



I tried :
20 words in the reference list
20 - 30 words in each sentence
1000 sentences  (actually, two sentences, repeated 500 times :-)
500 matches (each match is of 6 words from the ref list)

your original algorithm took 305 millisecs (once I remembered to set 
wholeMatches to true !!)
using the array split method as above took 28 millisecs  (including the 
time to set up and split the array)


Hope that's fast enough - but if not, let me know and I'll try another 
approach 


--
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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Mark Waddingham]

Hi Andre,

[ Thought I posted this yesterday but it must have been from a non-list
friendly email-address... ]

Have you tried the Thawte Root Certificate (of the appropriate hue)?

http://www.thawte.com/roots/

Every Certificate Authority (CA) has a different root certificate that
is needed locally for interaction with an HTTPS which has that authority
as it's root authority.

Any certificate that has been issued actually represents a chain of
trust: the issued certificate is signed by some trusted entity which
then has its certificate signed by another trusted entity etc. etc.
right up til something gets signed by a Certificate Authority.

Roughly, the SSL library will request certificates in turn for each step
in the chain, verifying as it goes. However, when it gets to the end of
the chain it has no-one to ask to verify the final (CA) certificate and
so it must verify it against a local copy.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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   Runtime Revolution ~ User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Jim Ault]

JB
>I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the
>following task :
>I have a variable containing reference words; each "word"
>in this variable is considered as an item.
>I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a
>list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each
>sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference,
>as well as other words.
>
>I need to determine for each sentence, which words from
>the reference are included in it, in which order, and output
>a list of offsets.
>For example :
>reference variable :  W1,W2,W3,W4
>sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3
>output : 2,3
>
>And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that
>contain more than 1 word from the reference.
Also 
> set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a
> sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection
> a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other
> sentences in a data base...

Consider conditioning your task so that the list of sentences in the
hit-detection variable is sorted by length, shortest to longest, then report
back intermediate results for the user to begin evaluating (eg. every 50
lines).  This would make the perceived wait time virtually zero.  Show a
progress indicator.

Another approach, since you are allowing the user to enter hit words,
including misspellings, is to test each user-word to see if it "is in
tTheWholeList" and report a true-false for each word before doing the
counts, and obviously not bothering to find it on each line.  This would be
very fast if no words qualified, and ask the user "do you want to continue"
before actually doing the 'search'.   This would save the user some
aggravation waiting for a bad entry to finish.

Along the same lines, you could break your sentences into arbitrary groups
and test each for "is it in gSectionAglobal", no, skip, "is it in
gSectionBglobal", yes, do the work,  "is it in gSectionCglobal", no, skip...

Are you considering a proximity parameter later?  This means that words must
occur within a certain 'neighborhood' or number of chars of each other.  If
this is the case, any sentence that is less than the proximity would not
have to even be evaluated for that.

If the database of sentences is static, think about pre-indexing the lines,
then just locating the list of line numbers for each reference word,
reporting the line number that "is in" at least one of the other index
candidates.  Adding new lines would only have to update the index, not
rebuild it.

Index could be the lineOffset("meal",indexx) --set whole matches to true
forthnight,22,95
meal,12,13,14,26,32,45,78,299
meat,3,26,44,78
meet,26,34,99
meeting,2,4,1099


Just some thoughts.  Are booleans coming later?  W1 and (W2 or W5)

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 6/5/05 12:47 PM, "jbv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Alex,
> 
>>>repeat for each item i in it
>>>get itemoffset(i,myReference)
>>>if it>0 then
>>>put it & itemdelimiter after b
>>>end if
>>>end repeat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it",
>> since "it" gets over-written within the loop ?
> 
> yes, you're right. That was a typo.
> Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip
> off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain...
> hence the typo...
> 
> So here's a clean version of my code :
> 
> put "" into newList
> repeat for each line j in mySentences
> put j into a
> replace " " with itemdelimiter in a
> put "" into b
> 
> repeat for each item i in a
> get itemoffset(i,myReference)
> if it>0 then
> put it & itemdelimiter after b
> end if
> end repeat
> delete last char in b
> 
> if b contains itemdelimiter then
> put b & cr after newList
> end if
>  end repeat
> 
>> 
>> I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing
>> more than 1 word" ?
> 
> it's the test :
> if b contains itemdelimiter then
> which runs about 25% to 30% faster than
> if number of items of b > 1 then
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ?
>> or know any characteristics of it ?
> 
> as I said, only sentences, in french or english, with a maximum
> of 30 words.
> 
>> 
>> how many words in the reference list ?
> 
> can range between 1 and 25.
> 
>> 
>> how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ?
> 
> can range from 1 to several hundreds (hence the need for speed).
> 
>> 
>> how many "hits" vs "misses" ?
> 
> unpredictable...
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of
>> these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would
>> excel at both ends of the spectrum .
>> 
>> I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the
>> characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue .
>> e.g.   build an assoc array of the wor

Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = /C=ZA/ST=Western 
Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services 
Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = 
/C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 
20:unable to get local issuer certificate


Hmmm.  The problem may be more than the .pem.  If that doesn't fix it, 
let us know.  Gotta run.


Dar

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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 5:10 PM, Dar Scott wrote:



On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem 
file? my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On OS X look for TrustedCerts.pem; it works for testing.

I'll mention .pem issues briefly at the end of my talk at RevCon.  See 
you then!


Dar



Dar,

first thank you very much for the quick response, this been a major 
headache for me in the last few days, second, it didn't work. My script 
is this:


on mouseUp
  answer file "where is it?"
  set the sslcertificates to it
  get fld 2
  post it to URL "https://"
 put it & cr & the result after fld 3
end mouseUp

I point it to the TrustedCerts.pem and it returns the following:

error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = /C=ZA/ST=Western 
Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services 
Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = 
/C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 
20:unable to get local issuer certificate


any clue out there?

cheers and thanks
andre




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http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Alex Tweedly]

jbv wrote:



yes, you're right. That was a typo.
Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip
off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain...
hence the typo...

So here's a clean version of my code :

put "" into newList
repeat for each line j in mySentences
   put j into a
   replace " " with itemdelimiter in a
   put "" into b

   repeat for each item i in a
   get itemoffset(i,myReference)
   if it>0 then
   put it & itemdelimiter after b
   end if
   end repeat
   delete last char in b

   if b contains itemdelimiter then
   put b & cr after newList
   end if
end repeat

 


I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing
more than 1 word" ?
   



it's the test :
   if b contains itemdelimiter then
which runs about 25% to 30% faster than
   if number of items of b > 1 then
 


cute !! very nice - I'll remember that one 


Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of
these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would
excel at both ends of the spectrum .

I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the
characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue .
e.g.   build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences,
where the content of the array element is the word number within the
references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be
faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the
number of words in myReferences is very small.

   



The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable :
the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a
sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection
a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other
sentences in a data base...

 


Still feasible ( typing straight into email - typos possible )

put empty into myArray
put 0 into count
repeat for each item W in myReference
   add 1 to count
   put W && count & cr after myArray
end repeat
split myArray by CR and space

I'll try some simple experiments based on the figures you gave more 
later.


--
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Re: HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem 
file? my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On OS X look for TrustedCerts.pem; it works for testing.

I'll mention .pem issues briefly at the end of my talk at RevCon.  See 
you then!


Dar

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HTTPS and Root.pem...

[Andre Garzia]

Folks,

still no luck in the HTTPS field, can someone send me the root.pem 
file? my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I can't get this working, it always shout:

error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = /C=ZA/ST=Western 
Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services 
Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = 
/C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 
20:unable to get local issuer certificate


thanks
andre

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Re: who's out there?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 3:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Troy Rollins wrote:
I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of 
the easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program.
It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for 
commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully 
forgiving...


"The difference between a tool and a product is about an order of 
magnitude:  with a tool it merely needs to be possible to use it 
correctly, but with a product it should be impossible to use it 
incorrectly."

- Steven McConnell (from 'Rapid Development')


Ah. Well said! I was going by personal experience at having produced 
both. I hadn't quantified it, but "an order of magnitude" sounds about 
right.   ;-)

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[jbv]

Alex,

> >repeat for each item i in it
> >get itemoffset(i,myReference)
> >if it>0 then
> >put it & itemdelimiter after b
> >end if
> >end repeat
> >
> >
> >
> Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it",
> since "it" gets over-written within the loop ?

yes, you're right. That was a typo.
Actually my script is slightly more complex, and I had to strip
off a couple of things to make the problem easier to explain...
hence the typo...

So here's a clean version of my code :

put "" into newList
repeat for each line j in mySentences
put j into a
replace " " with itemdelimiter in a
put "" into b

repeat for each item i in a
get itemoffset(i,myReference)
if it>0 then
put it & itemdelimiter after b
end if
end repeat
delete last char in b

if b contains itemdelimiter then
put b & cr after newList
end if
 end repeat

>
> I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing
> more than 1 word" ?

it's the test :
if b contains itemdelimiter then
which runs about 25% to 30% faster than
if number of items of b > 1 then

>
>
> Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ?
> or know any characteristics of it ?

as I said, only sentences, in french or english, with a maximum
of 30 words.

>
> how many words in the reference list ?

can range between 1 and 25.

>
> how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ?

can range from 1 to several hundreds (hence the need for speed).

>
> how many "hits" vs "misses" ?

unpredictable...

>
>
> Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of
> these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would
> excel at both ends of the spectrum .
>
> I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the
> characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue .
> e.g.   build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences,
> where the content of the array element is the word number within the
> references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be
> faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the
> number of words in myReferences is very small.
>

The "array" approach crossed my mind, but I'm afraid it's not feasable :
the set of reference words is unpredictable. It is actually derived from a
sentence entered by the end user, and after some processing / selection
a set words is extracted from that sentence and then compared with other
sentences in a data base...

Thanks for your time & collaboration anyway.
JB

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Re: chunk question

[Ken Ray]

>> That is, how do I specify "to end of string"?
>> 
> put char 7 to -1 of str into var

You can also do:

  put char 7 to length(str) of str into var

However the -1 is so much faster and easier to type...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



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Re: converting Offsets into Line Numbers

[Ken Ray]

> If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file listing)
> and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, now do I
> convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I found?

Well, first of all might I suggest "lineOffset", which is the same as
offset, but returns the number of line where it is found. However if you
don't want to do that, you could as for 'the number of lines of char 1 to
 of '.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



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Re: RevCon

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Ralph R. Forehand wrote:


Richard,

THANK YOU for the heads-up. And WOW!!, I'll certainly keep an eye on 
this one too. While I've been to beautiful Monterey, CA, I've never 
been to Malta - but heard great things about it. :-))


Thanks Again and TAKE CARE,
Ralph



Ralph,

I was on EuroRevDevConf in Malta!! That Place Rox! It's a magical 
place, I'll put some photos online to share with you guys!


Cheers
andre


--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004  BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Posting RevCon West Sessions (was Re: who's out there?)

[Dan Shafer]

In fact, once the conference is over, Chipp Walters and I -- who are  
hosting the gathering -- will be finding new and cool ways to  
distribute conference sessions.


Watch for post-conference announcements.

~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest

On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

We'll post our notes somewhere on the web so those who couldn't  
make it can get at least an overview of what's covered.




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Re: converting Offsets into Line Numbers

[Andre Garzia]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Jon wrote:

If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file 
listing) and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, 
now do I convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I 
found?


:)

Jon



Jon,

quick and dirty, imagine the following listing

blue
yellow
red
green
laranja

put lineoffset(tList, "red") into tLocation
put line tLocation of tList

this will put the line that contains red in the tLocation variable and 
after will put the given line in the message box


Cheers
andre






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--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Re: RevCon

[Ralph R. Forehand]

Richard wrote;
>And if you can swing it there's also be another RevCon in Europe next year, in 
>beautiful Malta - here's the info on the one from last November:
>
>
>So whether stateside or international, you'll have options.

Richard,

THANK YOU for the heads-up. And WOW!!, I'll certainly keep an eye on this one 
too. While I've been to beautiful Monterey, CA, I've never been to Malta - but 
heard great things about it. :-))

Thanks Again and TAKE CARE,
Ralph


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converting Offsets into Line Numbers

[Jon]

If I have a string with lots of lines in it (like a folder/file listing) 
and search for a file name with Offset and get a number back, now do I 
convert it into a line number, so I know which file name I found?


:)

Jon
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Re: RevCon

[Richard Gaskin]

Ralph R. Forehand wrote:

Andrea,

Thank You Very Much for the quick info on RevCon. Unfortunately, the two-week 
turn around is much to short for me to set it up now.

But I'll be thinking of you folks enviously, knowing it's going well, and trust 
that lots of information from the Conference finds it's way on-line.

Maybe next year's RevCon???...


And if you can swing it there's also be another RevCon in Europe next 
year, in beautiful Malta - here's the info on the one from last November:



So whether stateside or international, you'll have options.

--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
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Re: RevCon

[Ralph R. Forehand]

Andrea,

Thank You Very Much for the quick info on RevCon. Unfortunately, the two-week 
turn around is much to short for me to set it up now.

But I'll be thinking of you folks enviously, knowing it's going well, and trust 
that lots of information from the Conference finds it's way on-line.

Maybe next year's RevCon???...

Thanks Again and TAKE CARE,
Ralph
---
>On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:13 PM, Ralph R. Forehand wrote:
>
>>Monterey?? Info on this Conference and/or URL??
>>
>>Thanks in Advance,
>>Ralph
>>
>
>Ralph, this will be a hell of a conference, I am comming all the way from 
>brazil to it.
>
>the url is: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/
>
>if you happen to be there, we'll all get togheter
>
>cheers
>andre


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Re: OT: but interesting to Mac users

[Richard Gaskin]

Dan Shafer wrote:
Since this is so far OT, I decided not to reply in detail here. If  you 
want to know what I think (and frankly I can't think of a lot of  
reasons you should), check out my blog:


http://www.eclecticity.com/.3c63d717


Well said on all fronts.

Sometimes change is good, and I would like to see Macs both faster and 
cheaper.


But I fear how many developers simply won't be able to afford yet 
another deep paradigm shift, as with 68k->PPC and Classic->OS X.


--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: who's out there?

[Richard Gaskin]

Troy Rollins wrote:
I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of the 
easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program.


It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for 
commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully 
forgiving...


"The difference between a tool and a product is about an order of 
magnitude:  with a tool it merely needs to be possible to use it 
correctly, but with a product it should be impossible to use it 
incorrectly."

- Steven McConnell (from 'Rapid Development')


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Re: Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[Alex Tweedly]

jbv wrote:


Hi list,

I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the
following task :
I have a variable containing reference words; each "word"
in this variable is considered as an item.
I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a
list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each
sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference,
as well as other words.

I need to determine for each sentence, which words from
the reference are included in it, in which order, and output
a list of offsets.
For example :
   reference variable :  W1,W2,W3,W4
   sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3
   output : 2,3

And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that
contain more than 1 word from the reference.

Here's the fastest script I managed to code :

put "" into newList
repeat for each line j in mySentences
   put j into a
   replace " " with itemdelimiter in a
   put "" into b

   repeat for each item i in it
   get itemoffset(i,myReference)
   if it>0 then
   put it & itemdelimiter after b
   end if
   end repeat

 

Shouldn't that be "repeat for each item i in a" rather than "... in it", 
since "it" gets over-written within the loop ?



   if b contains itemdelimiter then
   delete last char of b
   put b & cr after newList
   end if
end repeat

But I was wondering if there was any faster approach...
 

I don't see anything here which "keeps only those sentences containing 
more than 1 word" ?
newList just contains the list of offsets - with no indication which 
sentence they occurred in ???


Do you have a "typical" dataset in mind ? 
or know any characteristics of it ?

how many words in the reference list ?
how many sentences, and how long is a typical one ?
how many "hits" vs "misses" ?

Since you're asking for "fastest" algorithm, I assume at least one of 
these numbers is large - and it's unlikely the same algorithm would 
excel at both ends of the spectrum .


I have 2 or 3 approaches in mind ... any clues you have on the 
characteristics of the data would help decide which ones to pursue .
e.g.   build an assoc array of the words which occur in myReferences, 
where the content of the array element is the word number within the 
references, and lookup each word in the sentence with that ... should be 
faster than "itemOffset" but probably not enough to justify it if the 
number of words in myReferences is very small.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Richard Gaskin]

Troy Rollins wrote:


On Jun 5, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Klaus Major wrote:


Please read this and spread the URL, so as many people as possible
will get to read this!

http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html

Wonderful read, thanks a lot, Richard!



Its true, I don't argue that either, and I've read Richard's document 
many times. It IS a great article. I've believed similarly for a long 
time, and produced many many projects along the same lines of thinking.


Thanks for the kind words.  It's been flattering to see how widely that 
document's been read.  My hit log shows it linked from some univesity 
reading lists, and someone forwarded it to Jeremy Alaire which managed 
to get me a dinner with him (he's a very interesting cat). :)


Maybe the pen is mightier than the sword.  Can you imagine Jeremy Alaire 
having dinner with someone carrying a sword?


Nevertheless there are times when an executable of any kind is 
unacceptable. Browser plugins however frequently escape this rule.


Agreed, and for delivering within the limitations imposed by such an 
environment it seems Flash is a great solution.


And more importantly, only Flash has the most critical thing that often 
gets overlooked in such discussions: it's already on the user's hard drive.


Whether as a standalone or yet another plugin, something's gotta drive 
this stuff.  While managers often say "Give me something that runs in a 
browser", once they find out it still requires a custom installation on 
every client machine they balk.  They're accustomed to the Flash or Java 
experience, where the engine is pre-installed.


Non-IT managers have a tough time articulating ALL of their needs up 
front.  Sometimes IT managers do too.  So they ask for these things 
without really considering all of the relevant factors, and when you 
deliver something that still requires a download and installation they 
say things like, "Heck, that's no better than a custom app."


I don't have hard data, but from my experience in such conversations and 
anecdotally from other developers I find that about half of the managers 
who say "Give me something that runs in a browser" will happily use a 
standalone once they find out that the plugin would require the same 
installation effort and carries design limitations.


That percentage can sometimes be increased by letting them know that a 
player can also be more secure:  in secureMode it can't write anything 
to the local drive, not even a cookie, and the engine is reported to be 
immune to buffer overruns.


You might be able to bump the percentage further still with two other 
points:


- A custom standalone is a form of custom browser, but fully branded 
with their own identity.  The pulsing logo launches their site, not 
Mozilla's.


- By moving content out of the browser they elimintate the billions of 
dollars of lost productivity caused by putting things like intranets on 
a browser, where sports stats and porn are always just one click away. 
People do a lot of surfing on company time.


The trick with all of this is to not deliver each application as a 
standalone; why replicate the engine and slow downloads?  Instead, make 
a single custom player for the client which has its own method of 
listing available stacks from the server and running them.


RevNet is an example of this -- in Rev see Development->Plugins->GoRevNet

I've started putting a variant of RevNet in my own commercial apps as an 
information and support center called InfoCenter -- WebMerge is shipping 
with this now:




And of course, there's still the other half who lives with the illusion 
that anything in a browser is somehow necessarily "better".  For them 
the best solution is Flash or Java, since nothing else is pre-installed.



Andre -  I also agree with you, that a java exporter would be the best 
solution for Rev and browser delivery... but I expect we won't be seeing 
that either.


I'd bet sooner than we'd see a plugin. ;)

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Troy Rollins]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Marty Billingsley wrote:


I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime
soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed.
What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon?


The two programs are so dissimilar that I can't even imagine where the 
concept is coming from.


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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using the HTTPS keyword...

[Andre Garzia]

Folks,

can someone shed a light on my previous message regarding a simple 
error trying to post to a SSL Url... the post returns:


error -Error with certificate at depth: 1  issuer   = /C=ZA/ST=Western 
Cape/L=Cape Town/O=Thawte Consulting cc/OU=Certification Services 
Division/CN=Thawte Server CA/[EMAIL PROTECTED]  subject  = 
/C=ZA/O=Thawte Consulting (Pty) Ltd./CN=Thawte SSL Domain CA  err 
20:unable to get local issuer certificate


I tried pointing the sslcertificates prop to a dozen root.pem and 
root.crt that I have here with no luck can someone help plz?


(before I implement the thing using open secure socket)

andre
--
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http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: who's out there?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jun 5, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Jim Ault wrote:


My collection of programs that are directed by Rev via Applescript is
(Photoshop, Mac OSX shell, Excel, BBEdit, Entourage, Transmit)

Rev is my core App.  It is my central database, toolbox, file handling,
processing logic, error checking, and log file creation software.  
Quite the

Swiss army knife of quick, easy software development.


I find that using Rev to create personal super-utilities is one of the 
easiest, and most rewarding aspects of the program.


It is quite a bit more difficult to create a cross-platform app for 
commercial distribution though. Personal super-utilities are awfully 
forgiving...


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Dreamcard Roadster in the future???

[Marty Billingsley]

Ken Ray writes:
> I think it may actually be better if RunRev wants to consider running
> content in a plugin that it consider outputing stacks to Flash and running
> them with *that* plugin (since it is so ubiquitous) rather than creating
> their own plugin.

I'll second that.  I've been wishing I could develop Flash pages
using RR for a couple of years now.  RR's interface is simple enough
that my students can actually create some nice projects in the course
of an eleven-week class, but there's absolutely no hope of them doing
anything impressive in that time with Flash.  And I'd like my students
to be able to show off their projects via the web without making the
audience download and install a player or download a potentially
buggy application.

I know a lot of people disagree, but Flash isn't going away anytime
soon, and just about everyone has the shockwave plugin installed.
What's wrong with jumping on that bandwagon?

  - marty

--
Marty Billingsley ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
The University of Chicago Laboratory Schools
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Re: rev interferes with Mozilla ThunderBird

[Richard Gaskin]

Jon wrote:
All hell broke loose last night.  When I got up, Norton Antivirus 
claimed it was unable to complete a scan because it ran out of 
resources, and recommended uninstalling and reinstalling.  And Mozilla 
Thunderbird suddenly claimed I had no email accounts and no saved 
messages. I rebooted.


It took an hour or so to get the help I needed to restore ThunderBird (a 
preference file had been corrupted: the data was all there, just not 
properly connected).  And Norton seems to be scanning along just fine, 
hour after hour.


ThunderBird is behaving strangely, though.  When I try to delete a 
message, it doesn't work most of the time.  If I kill Rev, TB works just 
fine.


TB did not work this way yesterday, and Rev is the only new software 
I've been using for the past week, so I'm tempted to "blame" Rev for the 
current rash of problems.


Does any of this sound familiar to any of you?


No.  I would instead check your disk.  If you're using OS X and youd 
hard drive's free space has ever dropped below 15% of total capacity 
you'll want to run Disk Utility while booted from your installation CD 
to check it thoroughly.  Extra bonus points if you run Disk Warrior 
first, as it's the only tool that can do a wide range of deep and 
sometimes critical repairs (no, I don't work for them, just a fan).



--
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 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
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Re: who's out there?

[Richard Gaskin]

Jon wrote:
I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many of 
you just play with it.  


I've been making a living with xTalks for 11 years as of 4/4, and almost 
exclusively with the Rev engine (going back to when it was called 
"MetaCard") since '98.


I'm at the point where I can't believe anyone 
could use it to do serious development.  It is just too buggy, syntax 
idiosyncrasies and sloth aside.


I haven't yet seen the development tool with no bugs, and fortunately 
with Rev nearly all can be worked around; there are few true 
show-stoppers, unlike bad headers that have shipped with CodeWarrior, 
and other things you'll find in reading the dev lists for other products.


But unlike those other products, Rev is among the very few IDEs that 
truly eats its own dogfood:  it's written in Transcript, which means 
it's fully modifiable, extensible, and even replaceable.


For example, while I make my living with the engine I rarely use the Rev 
IDE at all, being one of the ol' timers who still use the MetaCard IDE. 
 Other IDEs are possible, a couple in the works, and there are dozens 
of tools available as plugins that work in any of these IDEs.


So if you find RunRev troublesome but are interested in Transcript, with 
a few minutes online you can assemble a toolkit to fit your personal 
preferences.




And how many of you successfully deploy cross-platform applications?


I ship an average of at least one commercial cross-platform application 
every month for the last several years.


That is my holy grail, but I'm so far away from that I can't even 
imagine it.


Imagining it's the easy part.  Making it's not much harder.  The tough 
part is testing it throughly. :)


What issues have you encountered shipping yours?  As with learning any 
new tool, you'll find this discussion list community to be your most 
valuable resource.  Feel free to take advantage of us. :)


Finally, are there any cross-platform dos and don'ts? 


There are, and Ken, Jacque, and I will be doing a panel called 
"Cross-Platform Gotchas" at RevCon West in two weeks:



We'll post our notes somewhere on the web so those who couldn't make it 
can get at least an overview of what's covered.



I read that the 
Ask Files dialog is system-dependent at the Filters level.  I understand 
why this might be necessary, but it sure shoots a hole in simple 
cross-platform applications.

:)


Mac OS, OS X, and Windows each uses a different means of identifying 
file types.


It's not possible for RunRev to know all the file possible combinations 
of file types you might want to filter, but fortunately it's not too 
hard to write a function to handle any specific type of file you need 
for both platforms.


I'll cover this in-depth at an upcoming article for revJournal.com soon, 
but here's a quick example to get you started:


function MyGetFile
 put "Select a document:" into tPrompt
 if the platform is "MacOS" then
  answer file tPrompt of type "MFIL" --< your file type
 else
  answer file tPrompt with filter "*.mfl" --< your file extension
 end if
 if it is empty then exit to top
 return it
end MyGetFile


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Changing appearence Question

[Buddyb3ar22]

I was wondering, if there was a way to change the appearance of a slider bar? 
Or does it have to be like its original look?
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Re: who's out there?

[Dennis Brown]

Jon,

I am retired.  I decided to use Rev as my language of choice for  
doing all those programming projects that I never had time to get to  
before (ha,ha, I'm busier now than ever).  My project list is varied  
from home automation to food databases, and I do conceive of free  
distribution of some of my stuff cross platform via DreamCard.   
However, my big project right now is only indirectly for me.  I am  
working on a very large historical database to generate tools that  
run statistical analysis to discover new relationships.  I am doing  
this project for a friend that will use it in support a worthwhile  
charity.  I use a Mac and he uses PCs.  I can see the need for major  
improvements in the IDE.  A professional can learn to work around  
quirks and bugs.  My beef is that it is the casual user --the ones  
that can make or break a company by virtue of their numbers --that  
will not put up with getting slapped 4 or 5 times on his first day of  
use.  He will give up and look elsewhere unless he has a lot of  
support --like he would get on this list.  The core functionality of  
the IDE should be intuitive, simple and forgiving of the fumbles of  
the novice.  Advanced features should be enabled modularly as one  
learns the basics.  IDE/tutorial in one.  Do this and the revolution  
will begin in earnest.


Dennis


On Jun 5, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Jon wrote:

I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how  
many of you just play with it.

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Re: who's out there?

[Jim Ault]

> On Jun 5, 2005, at 10:05 AM, Jon wrote:
> 
>> I'm curious.  How many of you use Rev to make a living, and how many
>> of you just play with it.

I am using Rev to build a central processing system for graphics and web
content.  I am a previous Hypercard guy, so Transcript was fairly easy and I
knew what I wanted to achieve.

My collection of Rev tools will not be commercial, but the result of using
them will.  My basic business will be to generate professional-style web
content as Flash movies.  These movies include (jpgs prepped by Photoshop),
combined with ('stage directions' written to a text file by Rev).., all of
which are read by a Flash SWF at runtime in a browser.

My collection of programs that are directed by Rev via Applescript is
(Photoshop, Mac OSX shell, Excel, BBEdit, Entourage, Transmit)

Rev is my core App.  It is my central database, toolbox, file handling,
processing logic, error checking, and log file creation software.  Quite the
Swiss army knife of quick, easy software development.

I will also be adding contact list, client-time logging and project
tracking/billing as time goes by, and, yes, SQL.

Before the end of June I should be up, running, and have many galleries
showing examples of my work.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas
Happily building a business with Rev every day of the week.
Rev 2.5.1 on Mac OSX 10.3.9, virtually no crashes or lost work since
installing 2.5.1 two months ago :-)


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Trying to code the fastest algorithm...

[jbv]

Hi list,

I'm trying to build the fastest possible algorithm for the
following task :
I have a variable containing reference words; each "word"
in this variable is considered as an item.
I also have a list of "sentences" (each sentence being a
list of "words" separated by spaces), 1 per line. Each
sentence can contain 1 or more words from the reference,
as well as other words.

I need to determine for each sentence, which words from
the reference are included in it, in which order, and output
a list of offsets.
For example :
reference variable :  W1,W2,W3,W4
sentence 1 : Wx W2 Wy Wz W3
output : 2,3

And last but not least, I need to keep only sentences that
contain more than 1 word from the reference.

Here's the fastest script I managed to code :

put "" into newList
repeat for each line j in mySentences
put j into a
replace " " with itemdelimiter in a
put "" into b

repeat for each item i in it
get itemoffset(i,myReference)
if it>0 then
put it & itemdelimiter after b
end if
end repeat

if b contains itemdelimiter then
delete last char of b
put b & cr after newList
end if
 end repeat

But I was wondering if there was any faster approach...

Thanks,
JB


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Re: Volume control Question

[Scott Rossi]

>> I was wondering is there was a way to control the volume of
>> something with a
>> slider so that if the slider was one the value 0 there would be no
>> sound, and
>> if it was on 100, the sounds was as high as it could go

> put this into the script of your scrollbar:
> 
> on scrollbardrag t_value
>   set the playloudness of player 1 to t_value
> end scrollbardrag

Also note that "playLoudness" can set the volume of a player object itself
(set the playLoudness of player 1) as well as setting the overall volume of
the system globally (set the playLoudness to 50).  As I recall, the latter
sets the overall system volume level on MacOS and sets the Wave volume level
on Windows.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: chunk question

[Björnke von Gierke]

put char 7 to -1 of str into var

check also out the chunk expression topic in the help menu

On Jun 05 2005, at 19:40, Jon wrote:


How do I say something like

"put char 7 to END of str into var"

That is, how do I specify "to end of string"?

:)

Jon


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