Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-19 Thread Dvorkin Dmitry



Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:

that's a great , but qmail is no more maintaned (no new features)
  
no new features in qmail for 10 years... because it rocks! :) I'm sure, 
community will repack qmail soon to simplify things.




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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Joshua Megerman

 proftpd-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
 proftpd-ldap-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
 proftpd-mysql-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
 proftpd-postgresql-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)

 Again, I'm not sure how this makes it much easier for people packaging.
 Even if you went with the module system, you'd have to compile each
 module seperately.  The packages above, even at the very least, provide
 a new module.  The same could be done by ./configure
 --enable-auth-module=x
  make.

Matt,

The trick here is that by separating out the back-end authentication
schemes into modules, you can provide a single source build for package
maintainers, which will generate multiple component packages for the whole
setup.  Then they don't have to maintain separately configured source
trees and builds for each authentication module, but can do a single build
that can be configured at runtime to use any available (i.e., installed)
module.  The user then can install just the module(s) that they want and
configure them at will without having to uninstall and then install the
new package.

 If you were to provide authentication packages for vpopmail, they'd
 replace
 libvpopmail and the binaries.  For the 5.5 tree, you can link against the
 shared object files if you choose to as well, meaning packages would only
 need to replace libvpopmail.so, or even just a symlink to a different
 library.

Again, the authentication modules would be removed from libvpopmail.so,
and libvpopmail.so would load the appropriate library (e.g.
libvpopmail_authtype.so) based on the vpopmail configuration.

 Modules are not out of the question, but I'm not shooting for them in the
 near
 future.  vpopmail as a project just doesn't need them very badly right
 now.

I think that depends on the direction that you want to take vpopmail in. 
If you're just aiming to update the code, fix bugs, and add needed
functionality, then you're probably right.  If you're looking to expand
the scope of vpopmail usage and deployments (which binary packages will
inevitably do as users who don't want to custom-compile things start
making use of it), then modularizing the authentication systems is
probably the second most important thing to do, after fixing any bugs that
might be lurking in the code right now, especially in the back-ends.

Also, by creating a modular vpopmail-backend API, you could even break the
authentication components out of the vpopmail code tree so that other
people could easily maintain and even add new back-end support.  Again, I
don't know what your goal is, so that will certainly influence how you
want to prioritize things.

 If someone wants to write a patch against the 5.5 tree, I'll look into it
 and
 if the code is done well, I will consider adding it, but it was not in my
 plan
 for 5.5.

Fair enough.  I can't remember if you've done it or not, but if you
haven't you might want to consider posting a to-do/wish list/roadmap for
vpopmail development so that people can assist with and/or comment on
where things are going.  Thanks for working to make vpopmail better!

Josh

Joshua Megerman
SJGames MIB #5273 - OGRE AI Testing Division
You can't win; You can't break even; You can't even quit the game.
  - Layman's translation of the Laws of Thermodynamics
j...@honorablemenschen.com


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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Matt Brookings
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Hash: SHA1

Joshua Megerman wrote:
 The trick here is that by separating out the back-end authentication
 schemes into modules, you can provide a single source build for package
 maintainers, which will generate multiple component packages for the whole
 setup.  Then they don't have to maintain separately configured source
 trees and builds for each authentication module, but can do a single build
 that can be configured at runtime to use any available (i.e., installed)
 module.  The user then can install just the module(s) that they want and
 configure them at will without having to uninstall and then install the
 new package.

I see.  That makes a bit more sense.  I don't maintain any binary package
distributions, so I'm not really familiar with the process.  My assumptions
about it were incorrect I guess :)

 Fair enough.  I can't remember if you've done it or not, but if you
 haven't you might want to consider posting a to-do/wish list/roadmap for
 vpopmail development so that people can assist with and/or comment on
 where things are going.  Thanks for working to make vpopmail better!

I'll probably look into what it will take to move the authentication
backends into modules for the 5.5 branch.

Thanks for your input.
- --
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Matt Brookings
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Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
 Josh
 
 thanks for explaining the things for me, my english is not good
 
 making vpopmail support loadable module support will bring vpopmail
 into linux distros (fedora, opensuse, mandriva) and probably others
 and make the vpopmail userbase grow.

I appreciate your input.  I'm just not very familiar with binary distribution
maintenance.  I will be looking into this further.

Thanks!
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Joshua Megerman

 Josh

 thanks for explaining the things for me, my english is not good

You're welcome.

 making vpopmail support loadable module support will bring vpopmail
 into linux distros (fedora, opensuse, mandriva) and probably others
 and make the vpopmail userbase grow.

Well, that's a rather simplified statement.  After all, since vpopmail is
currently tied to qmail, you also have to get qmail into the linux
distros, and while much easier now that qmail is Public Domain, it's still
not as simple as that given the current state of qmail and patches.  But
it is a step in that direction...

Josh

Joshua Megerman
SJGames MIB #5273 - OGRE AI Testing Division
You can't win; You can't break even; You can't even quit the game.
  - Layman's translation of the Laws of Thermodynamics
j...@honorablemenschen.com


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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Joshua Megerman

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Joshua Megerman wrote:
 The trick here is that by separating out the back-end authentication
 schemes into modules, you can provide a single source build for package
 maintainers, which will generate multiple component packages for the
 whole
 setup.  Then they don't have to maintain separately configured source
 trees and builds for each authentication module, but can do a single
 build
 that can be configured at runtime to use any available (i.e., installed)
 module.  The user then can install just the module(s) that they want and
 configure them at will without having to uninstall and then install the
 new package.

 I see.  That makes a bit more sense.  I don't maintain any binary package
 distributions, so I'm not really familiar with the process.  My
 assumptions
 about it were incorrect I guess :)

No problem - I don't do any package maintenance myself either, but it's
always frustrated me that vpopmail could only support one back-end at a
time, and that it was allmost all configured at compile-time...

 Fair enough.  I can't remember if you've done it or not, but if you
 haven't you might want to consider posting a to-do/wish list/roadmap for
 vpopmail development so that people can assist with and/or comment on
 where things are going.  Thanks for working to make vpopmail better!

 I'll probably look into what it will take to move the authentication
 backends into modules for the 5.5 branch.

 Thanks for your input.

You're welcome - I don't have a lot of time for coding these days, but
I've invested enough time in qmail/vpopmail that I want to see them
succeed :)

Josh

Joshua Megerman
SJGames MIB #5273 - OGRE AI Testing Division
You can't win; You can't break even; You can't even quit the game.
  - Layman's translation of the Laws of Thermodynamics
j...@honorablemenschen.com


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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Itamar Reis Peixoto
that's a great , but qmail is no more maintaned (no new features)

will be a good ideia to make vpopmail more compatible with postfix and
maybe others MTA's



 Well, that's a rather simplified statement.  After all, since vpopmail is
 currently tied to qmail, you also have to get qmail into the linux
 distros, and while much easier now that qmail is Public Domain, it's still
 not as simple as that given the current state of qmail and patches.  But
 it is a step in that direction...

 Josh





Itamar Reis Peixoto

e-mail/msn: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
skype: itamarjp
icq: 81053601
+55 11 4063 5033
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Joshua Megerman

 that's a great , but qmail is no more maintaned (no new features)

 will be a good ideia to make vpopmail more compatible with postfix and
 maybe others MTA's

Ad that, my friend, is a horse of a totally different color.  To the best
of my knowledge there is no plan to make vpopmail work generically with
MTAs other than qmail (Matt, please correct me if I'm wrong), as it
currently is integrated rather tightly with how qmail does things.  While
I'm not disagreeing that expanding vpopmail's compatibility with other
MTAs would expand it's acceptance, I also don't really see it happening
without a complete internal rewrite to how vpopmail does things.  Maybe
something to roadmap for vpopmail 6?  In any case, I wouldn't hold my
breath :)

Josh

Joshua Megerman
SJGames MIB #5273 - OGRE AI Testing Division
You can't win; You can't break even; You can't even quit the game.
  - Layman's translation of the Laws of Thermodynamics
j...@honorablemenschen.com


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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-18 Thread Rick Macdougall

Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:

that's a great , but qmail is no more maintaned (no new features)

will be a good ideia to make vpopmail more compatible with postfix and
maybe others MTA's




Qmail is now in the public domain.  You are free to add any new features 
you want.


Regards,

Rick


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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Japheth Cleaver
On Sat, March 14, 2009 10:30 am, aledr wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Matt Brookings m...@inter7.com wrote:

*snip*

We've had the same sort of concerns regarding FHS compliance (and
eas-of-package-building) for some time, and have had a set of patches
within our RPM that have proved effective for us. I have not tested them
with 5.4.28, however... I'd be grateful to anyone who could do (especially
in isolation from our other patches).

They might be useful for others on the list as well. Details below.


Regards,

Japheth Cleaver



# Instead of vpopmail's home directory, use standard FHS locations:
# bindir, localstatedir, and sysconfdir for files (patches configure.in
and code)
Patch1: vpopmail.use-std-locations.5.4.19.patch

# Modify makefile to deal with our above changes (patches Makefile.am)
Patch2: vpopmail.use-std-locations-makefile.patch

# Documentation changes for patches 1 and 2
Patch3: vpopmail.use-std-locations-documentation.patch

# Make vpopmail's configure rpmbuild-friendly
vpopmail.no-root-needed.patch

# Don't verify that the qmail binaries are actually installed
# at configure time
vpopmail.configure-no-qmail-needed.patch

# Same goes for tcpserver/tcprules
vpopmail.configure-no-tcprules-needed.patch

# Look in /usr/{s}bin before /usr/local or {qmailHome}/bin when finding
# tcprules and qmail binaries
vpopmail.configure-search-paths.patch

# Ensure that all checks for libs are compatible with x86_64 (/usr/lib64)
Patch11: vpopmail.x86_64libs.patch

# Why are mysql libs being checked using the same variable as libdir?
Patch12: vpopmail.sanemysqllibs.patch

!DSPAM:49c00f8e32685742672204!


vpopmail.use-std-locations.5.4.19.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.use-std-locations-makefile.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.use-std-locations-documentation.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.no-root-needed.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.configure-no-qmail-needed.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.configure-no-tcprules-needed.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.configure-search-paths.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.x86_64libs.patch
Description: Binary data


vpopmail.sanemysqllibs.patch
Description: Binary data


Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Matt Brookings
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Japheth Cleaver wrote:
 On Sat, March 14, 2009 10:30 am, aledr wrote:
 On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Matt Brookings m...@inter7.com wrote:
 
 *snip*
 
 We've had the same sort of concerns regarding FHS compliance (and
 eas-of-package-building) for some time, and have had a set of patches
 within our RPM that have proved effective for us. I have not tested them
 with 5.4.28, however... I'd be grateful to anyone who could do (especially
 in isolation from our other patches).

I'm currently working on adding FHS compliance to the 5.5 branch.  5.4 is frozen
to everything except bugfixes.

FHS compliance should find it's way into the first development version of the 
5.5
branch.
- --
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Itamar Reis Peixoto
Also will be a good idea to have loadable module support for databases

mysql
sqlite
pgsql
cdb

etc...

this will make packaging easy


 I'm currently working on adding FHS compliance to the 5.5 branch.  5.4 is 
 frozen
 to everything except bugfixes.




Itamar Reis Peixoto

e-mail/msn: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
skype: itamarjp
icq: 81053601
+55 11 4063 5033
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!DSPAM:49c022ce32681229813388!



Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Matt Brookings
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Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
 Also will be a good idea to have loadable module support for databases
 
 mysql
 sqlite
 pgsql
 cdb
 
 etc...

I'm not sure loadable module support is really all that useful.

 this will make packaging easy

Please explain.
- --
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Itamar Reis Peixoto
please look at fedora proftpd package

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=91270

he have some sub-packages, mysql, pgsql etc..


at current state of vpopmail if we need vpopmail with mysql support,
then I need to compile vpopmail and link with mysql librarys

if we need vpopmail with pgsql support then I need to recompile
everthing with pgsql support.

with loadable module support only some parts of the code will be
linked with mysql, pgsql, oracle etc..


On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Matt Brookings m...@inter7.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
 Also will be a good idea to have loadable module support for databases

 mysql
 sqlite
 pgsql
 cdb

 etc...

 I'm not sure loadable module support is really all that useful.

 this will make packaging easy

 Please explain.
 - --
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-- 


Itamar Reis Peixoto

e-mail/msn: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Matt Brookings
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Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
 at current state of vpopmail if we need vpopmail with mysql support,
 then I need to compile vpopmail and link with mysql librarys
 
 if we need vpopmail with pgsql support then I need to recompile
 everthing with pgsql support.

Right.  That's the idea.  People don't change their authentication mechanism
daily, weekly, or even yearly.  They generally pick one and stick with it
unless a larger change happens, like scaling up to a clustered environment
which generally requires a networked database.

Besides, even if people did change their backend database on a more
frequent basis, it takes around 5 seconds to recompile vpopmail.  About
the same time it would take to edit a configuration file to make it
load a different authentication module.

 with loadable module support only some parts of the code will be
 linked with mysql, pgsql, oracle etc..

Please explain why you would need different parts of vpopmail talking
to different databases.
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Re: [vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-17 Thread Itamar Reis Peixoto
to make it packagable like proftpd

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=91270

 fedora compile proftpd only one time and the users have the choice of
ldap, mysql and pgsql database.

if we need proftpd with mysql then I will install proftpd and
proftpd-mysql packages and it will work with mysql.

this will make easy for the people to install without recompile.

proftpd-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
proftpd-ldap-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
proftpd-mysql-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)
proftpd-postgresql-1.3.2-0.4.rc3.fc11.i586.rpm (info) (download)





 Please explain why you would need different parts of vpopmail talking
 to different databases.



Itamar Reis Peixoto

e-mail/msn: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
sip: ita...@ispbrasil.com.br
skype: itamarjp
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[vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-14 Thread Matt Brookings
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

aledr wrote:
 Good day Matt!

I do not mind you emailing me privately, but I'd rather see this traffic on the 
list
for people's input as well.

I've CC'd the list in my reply.

 I sent a small patch to the tracker, but It will not work at all. I
 think you hadn't the time to see yet.

You uploaded a patch to the tracker that doesn't work?

 I've done some deeper changes on my local environment and after
 contact Timo, he improved the option --with-vpopmail on dovecot to
 allow the changes to FHS. You can see It here[1].
 As I said, the changes will result on an improvement on
 --enable-non-root-build to not check for vpopmail's user and group
 and these paths:
 
 Binaries will all go to:
/usr/bin/*
 
 Configuration:
/etc/vpopmail/vpopmail.mysql
/etc/vpopmail/vlimits.default
 
 Libs:
/usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/inc_deps
/usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/lib_deps
/usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/libvpopmail.a
 
 Includes:
/usr/include/vpopmail_config.h
/usr/include/vpopmail.h
 
 Domains and user's mailbox:
/var/spool/vpopmail/domains
 
 My real aim is to provide a clean way to package vpopmail for RPM
 based distros. I'm already doing It for openSUSE here[2], on my home
 repo.
 Can these changes be real on vpopmail or should I just make it myself
 and keep it with me?

I guess my original thoughts with the 'non-root' build were that you
would be compiling vpopmail as a non-root user.  I have no problems with
the FHS compliance options.

You cannot use the 'non-root-build' flag for your patch as it is already
used to allow someone to build the package when not the root user.

 I'm just asking it again to avoid spent time sending patches to
 changes I'll not see on the Inter7's vpopmail and should kept local.

I wouldn't mind having the FHS as an option during the build, however,
I'd rather it be implemented in a more autotools friendly way where
you can set the individual locations of things like the domains
directory, include directory, etc.

vpopmail currently assumes many of these are subdirectories of it's
home directory.  Once that assumption has been taken out of play, it
would work.

So, you'd need options for --enable-bindir=, --enable-etcdir, or what-have-you.
Then, finally, you could have an --enable-fhs-compliant which could 
automatically
set these values.

Furthermore, these changes will need to be made against the 5.5 tree.  5.4 is 
frozen
with only bug fixes being allowed in.
- --
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[vchkpw] Re: vpopmail FHS compliance

2009-03-14 Thread aledr
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Matt Brookings m...@inter7.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 aledr wrote:
 Good day Matt!

 I do not mind you emailing me privately, but I'd rather see this traffic on 
 the list
 for people's input as well.

 I've CC'd the list in my reply.

Nice, just remember the vpopmail 6 pages on the wiki.
There are a lot of good changes proposed and this question was
discussed there already.
This[1] link could give a little input to you.


 I sent a small patch to the tracker, but It will not work at all. I
 think you hadn't the time to see yet.

 You uploaded a patch to the tracker that doesn't work?

It works, but do not cover all changes proposed on the last sent mail
to you. I'm using the patch actually, you didn't check the links,
neither the patch...


 I've done some deeper changes on my local environment and after
 contact Timo, he improved the option --with-vpopmail on dovecot to
 allow the changes to FHS. You can see It here[1].
 As I said, the changes will result on an improvement on
 --enable-non-root-build to not check for vpopmail's user and group
 and these paths:

 Binaries will all go to:
    /usr/bin/*

 Configuration:
    /etc/vpopmail/vpopmail.mysql
    /etc/vpopmail/vlimits.default

 Libs:
    /usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/inc_deps
    /usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/lib_deps
    /usr/lib(64)/vpopmail/libvpopmail.a

 Includes:
    /usr/include/vpopmail_config.h
    /usr/include/vpopmail.h

 Domains and user's mailbox:
    /var/spool/vpopmail/domains

 My real aim is to provide a clean way to package vpopmail for RPM
 based distros. I'm already doing It for openSUSE here[2], on my home
 repo.
 Can these changes be real on vpopmail or should I just make it myself
 and keep it with me?

 I guess my original thoughts with the 'non-root' build were that you
 would be compiling vpopmail as a non-root user.  I have no problems with
 the FHS compliance options.

 You cannot use the 'non-root-build' flag for your patch as it is already
 used to allow someone to build the package when not the root user.

I'm not, and don't want to use It on my patch, but the
non-root-build flag checks against vpopmail's user and group on the
system.
You can't add users and groups on build environment system (as you
aren't root), You should do that when installing the software. See
section %pre on the spec file at the sent link[1].


 I'm just asking it again to avoid spent time sending patches to
 changes I'll not see on the Inter7's vpopmail and should kept local.

 I wouldn't mind having the FHS as an option during the build, however,
 I'd rather it be implemented in a more autotools friendly way where
 you can set the individual locations of things like the domains
 directory, include directory, etc.

 vpopmail currently assumes many of these are subdirectories of it's
 home directory.  Once that assumption has been taken out of play, it
 would work.

Right. If you had time to look at the patch sent, You could saw these changes.


 So, you'd need options for --enable-bindir=, --enable-etcdir, or 
 what-have-you.
 Then, finally, you could have an --enable-fhs-compliant which could 
 automatically
 set these values.

 Furthermore, these changes will need to be made against the 5.5 tree.  5.4 is 
 frozen
 with only bug fixes being allowed in.
 - --
 /*
    Matt Brookings m...@inter7.com       GnuPG Key D9414F70
    Software developer                     Systems technician
    Inter7 Internet Technologies, Inc.     (815)776-9465
 */
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[1]: http://vpopmail.wiki.sourceforge.net/Makefile+changes+(for+RPMs)

Thanks.
--
[ ]'s
Aledr - Alexandre
OpenSource Solutions for SmallBusiness Problems

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