Re: [vdr] xmltv2vdr.pl
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 15:54:29 + Dominic Evans wrote: > I don't know if anyone else still uses the xmltv2vdr.pl perl script > for piping XMLTV data into VDR's epg, but I've been keeping a version > of it updated with some additional function here: I don't want to discourage you from that - but have you seen there is a xmltv2vdr plugin ? This might be the better solution on the long run. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:59:51 + Dominic Evans wrote: > Hi all, > > Running vdr-sxfe as a local frontend using a pipe _should_ be as fast > (if not faster) than using XBMC over an http://localhost streamdev > connection. However, I seem to find the opposite to be the case. > vdr-sxfe still struggles with HD content, has pops and clicks in the > audio, crashes out every now again and generally has inferior > playback. My experience is that xine frontend runs usually more stable, then vdr-sxfe. If you run sxfe without HUD enabled, video is pretty ok, but gets jerky if you have OSD open. With hood enabled you get this skippy behaviour described in some other answer. > On my main frontend I have VDR running full time in the background > with no local frontend running. Then I have a bare-bones X11 > configured with a simple .xinitrc that flips between running vdr-sxfe > and xbmc (as I prefer it for watching DVDs etc.). For both frontends I > am using VDPAU. > > I have to use vdr-sxfe to interact with the menus, auto skip adverts > in recordings, do cutting, etc. But I'm increasingly finding myself > using XBMC and just a directory full of .strm files that point at > streamdev TS links, when I want to watch a live HD broadcast. Interesting solution. > Does anyone have vdr-sxfe running flawlessly as a local frontend for > HD content? I used to use xine as local frontend as its more stable. > I just wish I could have the full VDR OSD, but within XBMC :) Most likely will never happen. To answer some points raised in other answers: - default deinterlacing with yavdr is temporal_spatial for SD content and bob for HD content - testing HD deinterlacing settings with 720p stations is pointless as p means progressive aka not interlaced - you can set the deinterlacing settings in the webfrontend (for all frontends, not 100% sure about XBMC) - the xbmc version of yavdr 0.4 isn't optimal anymore, we just did not get around to provide some updated version, current eden with pvr runs a lot more stable, but has other issues (which we did not came around yet to trace them) - there is a new kid on the block called softhddevice, which is local frontend only and based directly on ffmpeg/libav with no libxine involved. Its only a littlebit older then 2 months, those maybe not ready for primetime - but in my opinion providing a better experience then the old xine frontends already. For that oneiric or precise as base is recommended - but this is nothing we can rollout yet. local frontend only is not that much of a backdraw, if you take into account that you can use streamdev with vtp streaming and a local vdr on the client Hope that provides some insight. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] xmltv2vdr.pl
On 9 March 2012 15:54, Dominic Evans wrote: > I don't know if anyone else still uses the xmltv2vdr.pl perl script > for piping XMLTV data into VDR's epg, but I've been keeping a version > of it updated with some additional function here: > > https://github.com/oldmanuk/xmltv2vdr > > These are the changes since the last version (1.0.9) was released on > the mailing list > > - Add support for XMLTV episode-num. Currently gets added as EPG entry > 'sub-title', if no existing subtitle has been found, in the form > sXXeXX (e.g., Bones~s01e01). > - Change default SVDRP port number to 6419. > - Better support for ATSC/PVRINPUT EPG sources. > - Allow multiple channels to have the same XMLTV channel id, useful for > multi input (e.g., DVB-T, DVB-S) systems where you want to feed VDR > the same info. Previously only a 1:1 mapping was permitted. > > I've also received a pull request from someone who rewrote the whole > script to be a lot more readable and to use full XML parsing (rather > than just line-by-line scraping), but I still need to investigate what > the performance penalty is before accepting that in. Yep! I still use it on a daily basis. :-) Will grab new version over the weekend and give it a whirl. Cheers, Laz ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 9 March 2012 16:25, Tony Houghton wrote: >> I actually currently have deinterlacing disabled on both xineliboutput >> and XBMC. > > AIUI interlaced fields are encoded as a pair in one field, so for most > video players "disabled", ignoring the interlacing flags and treating it > as as normal frame is the same as "weave". You usually get quite > noticeable combing artifacts with that. "Bob" is more or less an > alternative way of doing next to nothing; it displays each field in turn > without any attempt to combine them. Ah, actually looking at config_xinelibeoutput, I think vdr-sxfe automatically enables some vdpau deinterlacing by default (half temporal I think?) and the setting I was looking at on the xineliboutput config isn't relevant. I've switched to bob at your recommendation anyway :) I haven't noticed any combing artifacts into XBMC, but as I have the 'match display rate to match video' configured, its possible that XBMC is just feeding the TV 1080i output and letting it handle the deinterlacing. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Dominic Evans wrote: > > > I just wish I could have the full VDR OSD, but within XBMC :) > Yeah, shame about that. It's unfortunate the development on XMBC isn't anywhere as active or mature as VDR. I recently got really lazy and installed yavdr-0.4 after 7 years running everything from sources. It's simplicity of use is great. I use xineliboutput to watch DVDs, movies and live/recordings of ATSC HD and only use XBMC for all the web content (freecable, hulu etc). Works pretty well (apart from some regular xbmc crashing - which I really must look into at some point). ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:15:06 + Dominic Evans wrote: > On 9 March 2012 13:42, Tony Houghton wrote: > > > > video.output.vdpau_hd_deinterlace_method:bob > > > > I was amazed at how good it looks, although I've only tried it at > > 720p output so far, not at 1080p. I thought I was going to have to > > add at least a GT210 PCI-E card, but it looks like that's going to > > be unnecessary. > > I actually currently have deinterlacing disabled on both xineliboutput > and XBMC. AIUI interlaced fields are encoded as a pair in one field, so for most video players "disabled", ignoring the interlacing flags and treating it as as normal frame is the same as "weave". You usually get quite noticeable combing artifacts with that. "Bob" is more or less an alternative way of doing next to nothing; it displays each field in turn without any attempt to combine them. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] STNG Schedule Now and Next Column Widths
On 9 March 2012 16:18, Dominic Evans wrote: > Ideally the channels column would be auto-sized to display the full > channel name, as these tend to be a max of 20 characters it would be > useful to be able to see the whole thing. On a related note, it would also be good if the Now and Next pages on the Schedule also displayed the Group separators (as defined in channels.conf) that are displayed when looking at the Channels list. e.g. '=== Sports ===' in this example http://i.imgur.com/R6ea5.jpg ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
[vdr] STNG Schedule Now and Next Column Widths
Using the STNG skin at 1920x1080 (with the font size slightly reduced from default), the columns on the Now and Next pages of the Schedule don't currently adjust their width, but simply allocate all the extra space to the final column containing the title. See http://i.imgur.com/TKvGy.jpg for an example capture (1920x1080) Ideally the channels column would be auto-sized to display the full channel name, as these tend to be a max of 20 characters it would be useful to be able to see the whole thing. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 2012-03-09 16:34, Bio H wrote: i also have struggled for this holy grail xbmc would really be the ideal interface for me (just cant beat this flexibility - try playing a .bin / .img over a network which is .rar'd - cant do this on vdr) i like the xbmc plugins and flexibility, for the most part. :) for last few months i've been trying xvdr, but i have to say i have mixed feelings/results on this, and it's not very stable (from my experience) the deprecated vnsiserver/client has fallen off the radar by now... not many options other than streamdev/strm files. i found i kept getting warnings about insufficient buffers with the setting engine.buffers.video_num_frames:22 , so i bumped that up to 35 I got the warnings, too, but ended back at 22 when it didn't make a visible difference. This is on an Atom box with scarce resources, so ymmv. only other setting i'd suggest re-examining is the engine.performance.memcpy_method:libc at least on my system, kernel is faster. :) autodetect should be fine for this... ? (it should test all of them) I started out with auto detect but then set it to libc which it selected. The start up delay for auto is probably small, so I guess it's a safe bet in most cases. Cheers, Jonas ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
[vdr] xmltv2vdr.pl
I don't know if anyone else still uses the xmltv2vdr.pl perl script for piping XMLTV data into VDR's epg, but I've been keeping a version of it updated with some additional function here: https://github.com/oldmanuk/xmltv2vdr These are the changes since the last version (1.0.9) was released on the mailing list - Add support for XMLTV episode-num. Currently gets added as EPG entry 'sub-title', if no existing subtitle has been found, in the form sXXeXX (e.g., Bones~s01e01). - Change default SVDRP port number to 6419. - Better support for ATSC/PVRINPUT EPG sources. - Allow multiple channels to have the same XMLTV channel id, useful for multi input (e.g., DVB-T, DVB-S) systems where you want to feed VDR the same info. Previously only a 1:1 mapping was permitted. I've also received a pull request from someone who rewrote the whole script to be a lot more readable and to use full XML parsing (rather than just line-by-line scraping), but I still need to investigate what the performance penalty is before accepting that in. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 2012-03-09 16:28, Dominic Evans wrote: On 9 March 2012 15:11, Jonas Bardino wrote: I launch vdr-sxfe with a command that overrides video_num_buffers, Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add the buffers cmdline to my vdr-sxfe startup. Interesting that you're using xvdr+tcp://localhost rather than the default unix pipe. Intentional? That's a good question actually. I have experimented a *lot* with xine and xineliboutput to get sound through on the AAC/LATM encoded channels here in Denmark, so it may just be something that made a difference at some point along the way - I don't remember. I'm pretty sure my playback glitches are from the combination of unstable-vdr and fairly new LATM support in ffmpeg/xine, but maybe I'll investigate if the pipe works better at some point. The result is still not perfect with occasional glitches but it's not bad and after fighting for months with just getting HD channels running I'm quite happy. Yeah its great having HD channels playing and recording. It just makes me a little sad that XBMC playback of them is flawless, but with xine we seem to have to settle for "only occasionally glitches" ? Here XBMC is absolutely unstable and always has been, while vdr-sxfe runs quite well. I haven't been able to get sound out of XBMC TV since the channel switch to LATM audio, either. It should be noted that I mean XBMC with TV over the various pvr plugins. Cheers, Jonas ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
i also have struggled for this holy grail xbmc would really be the ideal interface for me (just cant beat this flexibility - try playing a .bin / .img over a network which is .rar'd - cant do this on vdr) i like the xbmc plugins and flexibility, for the most part. :) for last few months i've been trying xvdr, but i have to say i have mixed feelings/results on this, and it's not very stable (from my experience) the deprecated vnsiserver/client has fallen off the radar by now... not many options other than streamdev/strm files. i found i kept getting warnings about insufficient buffers with the setting engine.buffers.video_num_frames:22 , so i bumped that up to 35 only other setting i'd suggest re-examining is the engine.performance.memcpy_method:libc at least on my system, kernel is faster. :) autodetect should be fine for this... ? (it should test all of them) On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Dominic Evans wrote: > On 9 March 2012 15:11, Jonas Bardino wrote: > > I launch vdr-sxfe with a command that overrides video_num_buffers, > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add the buffers cmdline to my > vdr-sxfe startup. Interesting that you're using xvdr+tcp://localhost > rather than the default unix pipe. Intentional? > > > The result is still not perfect with occasional glitches but it's not > > bad and after fighting for months with just getting HD channels > > running I'm quite happy. > > Yeah its great having HD channels playing and recording. It just makes > me a little sad that XBMC playback of them is flawless, but with xine > we seem to have to settle for "only occasionally glitches" ? > > ___ > vdr mailing list > vdr@linuxtv.org > http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr > ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 9 March 2012 15:11, Jonas Bardino wrote: > I launch vdr-sxfe with a command that overrides video_num_buffers, Thanks for the suggestions. I'll add the buffers cmdline to my vdr-sxfe startup. Interesting that you're using xvdr+tcp://localhost rather than the default unix pipe. Intentional? > The result is still not perfect with occasional glitches but it's not > bad and after fighting for months with just getting HD channels > running I'm quite happy. Yeah its great having HD channels playing and recording. It just makes me a little sad that XBMC playback of them is flawless, but with xine we seem to have to settle for "only occasionally glitches" ? ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Dominic Evans wrote: > On 9 March 2012 10:09, Niels Wagenaar wrote: >>> Does anyone have vdr-sxfe running flawlessly as a local frontend for HD >>> content? >>> >> >> I use a fully updated yaVDR 0.4 and I don't have any issues with the >> vdr-sxfe frontend. > > Hmm. I have the same (yaVDR) running on an ION330 box. The channels I > most have problems with are 1080i HD at bitrates of around 9-10 MB/s. > Perhaps you could post your ~/.xine/config_xineliboutput to > http://gist.github.com or http://paste.ubuntu.com ? I'm running yavdr unstable-vdr packages on an Asrock 330HT box (ION) with xubuntu oneiric. I tuned the xineliboutput config a lot before I got anything bearable for HD channels. However, it turned out the the video buffers were the main problem, so most of the rest can use defaults. My current settings are dumped below: 0|~ > egrep -v '^#' /tmp/config_xineliboutput|egrep -v '^$' .version:2 audio.device.alsa_front_device:default audio.device.alsa_mixer_name:Master audio.device.alsa_mmap_enable:1 audio.output.speaker_arrangement:Surround 5.1 audio.synchronization.av_sync_method:resample video.output.vdpau_hd_deinterlace_method:half temporal video.processing.ffmpeg_thread_count:4 effects.goom.fps:25 effects.goom.height:576 effects.goom.width:720 engine.buffers.audio_num_buffers:500 engine.buffers.video_num_buffers:250 engine.buffers.video_num_frames:22 engine.performance.memcpy_method:libc I launch vdr-sxfe with a command that overrides video_num_buffers, since it keeps getting silently reverted to 250 in the conf: 0|~ > grep xvdr /tmp/open-vdr-sxfe.sh vdr-sxfe xvdr+tcp://localhost:37890 --post tvtime:method=use_vo_driver --audio=alsa --fullscreen --video=vdpau --reconnect --buffers=1000 The result is still not perfect with occasional glitches but it's not bad and after fighting for months with just getting HD channels running I'm quite happy. I hope it helps. Cheers, Jonas ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 9 March 2012 13:42, Tony Houghton wrote: > The difference between vdr-sxfe and XBMC you're experiencing could be > due to differences in the deinterlacing setting. You didn't say what > your graphics card is, but the sort of low-power fanless card most of us > like to have in an HTPC can't manage the higher quality options. The > default for libxine is "temporal", which my lowly 8200 is too slow for > in HD (but OK in SD), so I had to use this setting: > > video.output.vdpau_hd_deinterlace_method:bob > > I was amazed at how good it looks, although I've only tried it at 720p > output so far, not at 1080p. I thought I was going to have to add at > least a GT210 PCI-E card, but it looks like that's going to be > unnecessary. I actually currently have deinterlacing disabled on both xineliboutput and XBMC. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:59:51 + Dominic Evans wrote: > Running vdr-sxfe as a local frontend using a pipe _should_ be as fast > (if not faster) than using XBMC over an http://localhost streamdev > connection. However, I seem to find the opposite to be the case. > vdr-sxfe still struggles with HD content, has pops and clicks in the > audio, crashes out every now again and generally has inferior > playback. > > On my main frontend I have VDR running full time in the background > with no local frontend running. Then I have a bare-bones X11 > configured with a simple .xinitrc that flips between running vdr-sxfe > and xbmc (as I prefer it for watching DVDs etc.). For both frontends I > am using VDPAU. > > I have to use vdr-sxfe to interact with the menus, auto skip adverts > in recordings, do cutting, etc. But I'm increasingly finding myself > using XBMC and just a directory full of .strm files that point at > streamdev TS links, when I want to watch a live HD broadcast. IME sxfe works better watching "live" than a recording, but I'm not sure whether it affects how often the audio glitches. Such things in vdr-sxfe seem to come and go at random. Last time I watched an HD recording the picture regularly "jerked", like you get when watching 24fps video very crudely converted to 25fps by repeating a frame every second. But "live" TV seems quite smooth. The difference between vdr-sxfe and XBMC you're experiencing could be due to differences in the deinterlacing setting. You didn't say what your graphics card is, but the sort of low-power fanless card most of us like to have in an HTPC can't manage the higher quality options. The default for libxine is "temporal", which my lowly 8200 is too slow for in HD (but OK in SD), so I had to use this setting: video.output.vdpau_hd_deinterlace_method:bob I was amazed at how good it looks, although I've only tried it at 720p output so far, not at 1080p. I thought I was going to have to add at least a GT210 PCI-E card, but it looks like that's going to be unnecessary. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
2012/3/9 Dominic Evans : > On 9 March 2012 10:09, Niels Wagenaar wrote: > > Hmm. I have the same (yaVDR) running on an ION330 box. The channels I > most have problems with are 1080i HD at bitrates of around 9-10 MB/s. > Perhaps you could post your ~/.xine/config_xineliboutput to > http://gist.github.com or http://paste.ubuntu.com ? > I use an Asus AT3N7A-I mainboard with the TT 3650-CI which is an ION330 configuration as well and I frequently watch 1080i channels from my provider (Canal Digitaal) without any issues at all. The only issue I have is that the buffering is slower then my old Reel Multimedia ExtensionHD configuration, so it takes somewhat longer to get a picture (max 5 sec). My xineliboutput configuration is default, I didn't make any changes to it what so ever. > Yes, I don't use the xvdr plugin as it is still very buggy. I simply > take the playlist of channels from streamdev (available at > http://example.com:3000/ on your vdr box) and generate .strm files [1] > which I access from a vanilla XBMC Eden via the Videos --> Files > browser. > I'll check this tomorrow and post my experience using this method. > Yep I did know about these, but XBMC provides a much richer experience > for DVD, Blu-ray playback. e.g., cataloguing and display of a library, > automatic display framerate switching etc. > XBMC does indeed provide a much richer experience and it's a very powerfull frontend. However, personally I don't like the PVR integration in its current state and it produces all kind of WAF-issues ;) Regards, Niels Wagenaar ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
On 9 March 2012 10:09, Niels Wagenaar wrote: >> Does anyone have vdr-sxfe running flawlessly as a local frontend for HD >> content? >> > > I use a fully updated yaVDR 0.4 and I don't have any issues with the > vdr-sxfe frontend. Hmm. I have the same (yaVDR) running on an ION330 box. The channels I most have problems with are 1080i HD at bitrates of around 9-10 MB/s. Perhaps you could post your ~/.xine/config_xineliboutput to http://gist.github.com or http://paste.ubuntu.com ? > For me, XBMC with the xvdr plugin seems to produce very ackward results and > most > of the time I'm not able to watch anything because it's still > synchronizing the channels Yes, I don't use the xvdr plugin as it is still very buggy. I simply take the playlist of channels from streamdev (available at http://example.com:3000/ on your vdr box) and generate .strm files [1] which I access from a vanilla XBMC Eden via the Videos --> Files browser. > BTW, you do know that can play all kinds of media (including DVD's) > with vdr-sxfe right? > I use vdr-sxfe because it's one of the few frontends which allows > mediaplayback without any additional plugins. Yep I did know about these, but XBMC provides a much richer experience for DVD, Blu-ray playback. e.g., cataloguing and display of a library, automatic display framerate switching etc. --- [1] http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW-TO:Play_internet_video_and_audio_streams#The_.STRM_file_method: ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
2012/3/9 Dominic Evans : > Hi all, > >-- SNIP -- > > Does anyone have vdr-sxfe running flawlessly as a local frontend for HD > content? > I use a fully updated yaVDR 0.4 and I don't have any issues with the vdr-sxfe frontend. For me, XBMC with the xvdr plugin seems to produce very ackward results and most of the time I'm not able to watch anything because it's still synchronizing the channels. BTW, you do know that can play all kinds of media (including DVD's) with vdr-sxfe right? I use vdr-sxfe because it's one of the few frontends which allows mediaplayback without any additional plugins. > I just wish I could have the full VDR OSD, but within XBMC :) > That'll never happen ^^ > Cheers, > Dom > Regards, Niels Wagenaar ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
[vdr] Local frontend - using XBMC strm vs vdr-sxfe
Hi all, Running vdr-sxfe as a local frontend using a pipe _should_ be as fast (if not faster) than using XBMC over an http://localhost streamdev connection. However, I seem to find the opposite to be the case. vdr-sxfe still struggles with HD content, has pops and clicks in the audio, crashes out every now again and generally has inferior playback. On my main frontend I have VDR running full time in the background with no local frontend running. Then I have a bare-bones X11 configured with a simple .xinitrc that flips between running vdr-sxfe and xbmc (as I prefer it for watching DVDs etc.). For both frontends I am using VDPAU. I have to use vdr-sxfe to interact with the menus, auto skip adverts in recordings, do cutting, etc. But I'm increasingly finding myself using XBMC and just a directory full of .strm files that point at streamdev TS links, when I want to watch a live HD broadcast. Does anyone have vdr-sxfe running flawlessly as a local frontend for HD content? I just wish I could have the full VDR OSD, but within XBMC :) Cheers, Dom ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
