Re: [videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
Jan McLaughlin wrote: Feel a bit like a broken record but if you advertise things you really like - dare I say 'love' - you can't really go too far wrong. Advertise your fave internet cafe, fave restaurant, mom-n-pop hardware store, fave soft and hardware. Think hyper-local. Hyper-local to the vlogspace. Folks you already know. Get monthly credit at their establishments for your vlog posts about them or for setting up their business with a vlog. That's a start. The one problem I've had with this is that you need to be a good consumer. I've seen some bloggers who are always talking about the latest gadget they bought, or thing or experience that they purchased, but honestly, I am a terrible consumer. I rarely buy things outside of the necessities of food/gas/rent/etc. I buy a new computer every 5+ years. I don't eat out much. I am the anti-consumer. Which makes it hard to monetize the things I love, because many of them can't be purchased with dollars. Pete
Re: [videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
Irina wrote: again, i have NOT earned enough money from advertising to pay my rent (not even close really) You could probably make enough working in the Bay Area to pay rent and live in the Midwest. But then... the commute would kill you. :) Pete
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read this good blog post: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070923-barrier-bustin-internet-may-lead-to-a-music-industry-middle-class.html The premise is that there is a burgeoning class of musicians are forming direct relationships with their fans. This cuts out the agency middle men...and all the high costs of promotion. Independent musicians can then hope to make a living by selling their own music and doing live performances. Reading the article, I wonder if you could apply the same logic to online video. Do independent video makers need to rely on advertising modelscontinuing the same relationship to a bloated middle man? Or will a different relationship develop between people watching and the people who make the stuff they want to watch? jay I think the 'problem' with this concept is that there's a difference between how music is consumed and how video is consumed. I think the only way a video maker could pull something like this off would be to already have a base of people interested in their videos enough to chip in to pay for the costs of creating and distributing that video. Kind of like the idea you were talking about that said something like 800 people paying $5 each. http://foureyedmonsters.com has been doing really progressive stuff with online distribution and promotion. Check out their tutorial: http://foureyedmonsters.com/category/tutorial/ . Granted, they're talking about a feature-length film, but I would assume the same concepts would apply to shorter internet productions. -- Bill http://billcammack.com -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Twitter: http://tinyurl.com/2aodyc RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
This notion of making a living doing your VLOG is fascinating, and I believe - doable. But in order to do it, and still be the creative person you want to be - I suspect that you really have to think about different ways of present - or positioning your material. If you use the Public Radio or Public TV model, you just ask folks to pledge so that you can continue offering them information that they want. The difficulty with this approach for the average vlogger is that most vloggers have one or maybe 2 things that they are interested in producing - where PTV or PR has many many different offerings that people are pledging to support. Another way that I think about what I'm doing is to see this as a showcase that I can use to gather support for more long-form projects. A third way that folks are trying - such as Jay and Ryanne is to become a channel for someone who is aggregating content. Drew has been doing his own version of this by being the aggregator himself. I don't think there is any real answer yet - it's just too new. The music people can do it because they sell songs individually - and frankly people like to listen to them multiple times. Just some thoughts. This is an excellent conversation. Milt
Re: [videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
Feel a bit like a broken record but if you advertise things you really like - dare I say 'love' - you can't really go too far wrong. Advertise your fave internet cafe, fave restaurant, mom-n-pop hardware store, fave soft and hardware. Think hyper-local. Hyper-local to the vlogspace. Folks you already know. Get monthly credit at their establishments for your vlog posts about them or for setting up their business with a vlog. That's a start. Streeter, do the bars at which you film give you free beers / food? Jan On 9/26/07, Milt Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This notion of making a living doing your VLOG is fascinating, and I believe - doable. But in order to do it, and still be the creative person you want to be - I suspect that you really have to think about different ways of present - or positioning your material. If you use the Public Radio or Public TV model, you just ask folks to pledge so that you can continue offering them information that they want. The difficulty with this approach for the average vlogger is that most vloggers have one or maybe 2 things that they are interested in producing - where PTV or PR has many many different offerings that people are pledging to support. Another way that I think about what I'm doing is to see this as a showcase that I can use to gather support for more long-form projects. A third way that folks are trying - such as Jay and Ryanne is to become a channel for someone who is aggregating content. Drew has been doing his own version of this by being the aggregator himself. I don't think there is any real answer yet - it's just too new. The music people can do it because they sell songs individually - and frankly people like to listen to them multiple times. Just some thoughts. This is an excellent conversation. Milt Yahoo! Groups Links -- The Faux Press - better than real http://feeds.feedburner.com/WburgtvFallFilmFest - Fall Film Fest http://fauxpress.blogspot.com http://wburg.tv aim=janofsound air=862.571.5334 skype=janmclaughlin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
I'm not sure there will be a video middle class I think the model of independent music can and will work, social networking, grass roots, etc. But for video? Who would pay to see my stuff? Realisticly, no one. And I am sure that is true of most people. Heck, I don't even want to pay 1.99 for TV showsI think that they should be free, with advertising...I mean c'mon we all may not always like advertising but it does serve a purpose (when done right). I am probably one of the few who don't mind advertising, it is what it is and sometimes it's effective, for example, Amazon Unbox had a handfull of new fall shows where you could download the fall pilot for freeI downloaded every one of them and you know what, I liked a couple actually and will check out the shows, Advertising made that possible..but I digress.. I just don't see a middle class, I mean like Irina asked how many people are actually making any money? And those that are, I am sure there is some advertising happening, maybe not IN the vlog but around, etc. Maybe for independent film-makers you can make it, but I would venture that most would want something more than just getting by...I DON'T want to belive this, but in my heart of hearts I feel it's true. If nothing else, the networks will soon figure out how to deliver and produce and provide for content via the web and when that happens.the vast majority of people out there will be content Heath http://batmangeek.com I know, I know, I was all over the map, long week...
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
I see a ton of passion too, and sometimes you get paid in other ways, like for me I am making some internal commercials for where I work. Now, they are not cutting me a check, butI have filmed on the clock and I am going to get comp time for the time at home editing (that was my choice I could have taken money, hour for hour) so in effect, I DID get paid. Now it wasn't for vlogging but it was because I started vlogging that I knew how to edit, film, etc and that paid off with this. Now I would love to maybe do some more work, who knows. I just know I won't get paid for Batman Geek and that's cool with mebut maybe because of batman geek, I will get paid to do other stuffwho knows Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm launching something in the next month or so on my site, though I haven't arrived at a model yet. I have an immediate negative (knee jerk?) reaction to artificial exclusivity, borne of frustration at not being able to see the stuff I cared about when I was young and those aforementioned punkesque values, which is part of what makes me love the videblogging world so much. But I also believe that artists should be able to make a living from their work, and that when artists are prevented from devoting their working hours to it the work suffers, and so does the culture. everyone has had some good insights on this topic. charles, heath, sull, brook. I know Irina and I have talked about earning an independent living through videoblogging. anything but simply becoming an employee again. ive changed my thinking lately. I grew to think of videobloggers are just being bloggers. (text) bloggers dont expect to get paid. if they do, they work for a company that pays them to blog about certain subjects. for many videobloggers this may be true. this is the wonderful world of blogging. But im starting to see another sphere of videobloggers who are more akin to musicians. They are making art, entertainment, and stories. Like music, the videos are really valuable stuff to a certain audienceand it takes a lot of creative time and effort to make it happen. These videos cant be done in a coffee break at work. Like musicians, I guess its about setting expectations. How much do you need each month to live and create? How much do you really love and need to do it? How can you create a really strong relationship with the people who watch? How can you take advantage of the opportunities that come up? How to be become creative at just living a different kind of life? I see some in the music world who have gotten filthy rich and famousbut I also mostly love the musicians who have created music that informs my life...who helped change the way I think and see the world. I assume these musicians wouldnt have done it any other way. Its something we dont talk about openly...but every videblogger on this list that took the plunge in the past couple years to really focus on their video work has been successful in some way. Committed creativity is always rewarded (though not always in the ways you expect). Some form of sacrafice is usually always necessary. Dont know where I'm going with this line of thinking. Maybe its that I see the same kind of passion in videoblogging as I do in the music world. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Twitter: http://tinyurl.com/2aodyc RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
bill streeter said it for me i just recently had some experience recently where i saw that my expertise lies in content production not in deal making (contrary to popular belief) i dont see my advertising friends (the quality guys, not the scam guys) as experts in a field i do not need to understand to such a deep degree for that expertise, i am willing to pay them a percentage of my earnings again, i have NOT earned enough money from advertising to pay my rent (not even close really) so i speak from a novice's experience, however i would not venture any further without assistance On 9/25/07, Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see a ton of passion too, and sometimes you get paid in other ways, like for me I am making some internal commercials for where I work. Now, they are not cutting me a check, butI have filmed on the clock and I am going to get comp time for the time at home editing (that was my choice I could have taken money, hour for hour) so in effect, I DID get paid. Now it wasn't for vlogging but it was because I started vlogging that I knew how to edit, film, etc and that paid off with this. Now I would love to maybe do some more work, who knows. I just know I won't get paid for Batman Geek and that's cool with mebut maybe because of batman geek, I will get paid to do other stuffwho knows Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm launching something in the next month or so on my site, though I haven't arrived at a model yet. I have an immediate negative (knee jerk?) reaction to artificial exclusivity, borne of frustration at not being able to see the stuff I cared about when I was young and those aforementioned punkesque values, which is part of what makes me love the videblogging world so much. But I also believe that artists should be able to make a living from their work, and that when artists are prevented from devoting their working hours to it the work suffers, and so does the culture. everyone has had some good insights on this topic. charles, heath, sull, brook. I know Irina and I have talked about earning an independent living through videoblogging. anything but simply becoming an employee again. ive changed my thinking lately. I grew to think of videobloggers are just being bloggers. (text) bloggers dont expect to get paid. if they do, they work for a company that pays them to blog about certain subjects. for many videobloggers this may be true. this is the wonderful world of blogging. But im starting to see another sphere of videobloggers who are more akin to musicians. They are making art, entertainment, and stories. Like music, the videos are really valuable stuff to a certain audienceand it takes a lot of creative time and effort to make it happen. These videos cant be done in a coffee break at work. Like musicians, I guess its about setting expectations. How much do you need each month to live and create? How much do you really love and need to do it? How can you create a really strong relationship with the people who watch? How can you take advantage of the opportunities that come up? How to be become creative at just living a different kind of life? I see some in the music world who have gotten filthy rich and famousbut I also mostly love the musicians who have created music that informs my life...who helped change the way I think and see the world. I assume these musicians wouldnt have done it any other way. Its something we dont talk about openly...but every videblogger on this list that took the plunge in the past couple years to really focus on their video work has been successful in some way. Committed creativity is always rewarded (though not always in the ways you expect). Some form of sacrafice is usually always necessary. Dont know where I'm going with this line of thinking. Maybe its that I see the same kind of passion in videoblogging as I do in the music world. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Twitter: http://tinyurl.com/2aodyc RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 -- http://geekentertainment.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
I see a ton of passion too, and sometimes you get paid in other ways, like for me I am making some internal commercials for where I work. Now, they are not cutting me a check, butI have filmed on the clock and I am going to get comp time for the time at home editing (that was my choice I could have taken money, hour for hour) so in effect, I DID get paid. Now it wasn't for vlogging but it was because I started vlogging that I knew how to edit, film, etc and that paid off with this. Now I would love to maybe do some more work, who knows. I just know I won't get paid for Batman Geek and that's cool with mebut maybe because of batman geek, I will get paid to do other stuffwho knows Heath, this is a perfect example of how being creative by making a videoblogs opens opportunities. Before I start sounding like a EST instructor, i point to what jeffrey just said in this thread: The problem we are encountering right now is that the culture of business that sponsors and finances video on the web is completely linear and their concepts of what videos are are completely past-based. They need terminology that has content fit in boxes of a defined shape and size in order to survive and to justify the funding of projects, and this poses a problem for producers that don't want to be confined by those boxes. And we're seeing many well-intended agreements unravel and many wonderfully-conceived video projects lose their organic feel and charismatic nature because of this collision of the linear and non-linear. as videobloggers...as creative people making original work in a completely new media...we need to first ask ourselves what we want. Don't be so quick to take the couple of financial choices that the established system are comfortable offering. Remember, the house always wins because they make the rules. Jay [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
Very true that some people are stuck in an old modelbut I am not sure how much it can/will change.mainly because those that HAVE the money, time resouces, etc still MAKE the rules, we have not reached a tipping point yetI hope we do, but old meadia is not going to change easily and without a lot of bitching and moaning ;) PS Jay, add me on twitter, I can't get your updates anymore ;) Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see a ton of passion too, and sometimes you get paid in other ways, like for me I am making some internal commercials for where I work. Now, they are not cutting me a check, butI have filmed on the clock and I am going to get comp time for the time at home editing (that was my choice I could have taken money, hour for hour) so in effect, I DID get paid. Now it wasn't for vlogging but it was because I started vlogging that I knew how to edit, film, etc and that paid off with this. Now I would love to maybe do some more work, who knows. I just know I won't get paid for Batman Geek and that's cool with mebut maybe because of batman geek, I will get paid to do other stuffwho knows Heath, this is a perfect example of how being creative by making a videoblogs opens opportunities. Before I start sounding like a EST instructor, i point to what jeffrey just said in this thread: The problem we are encountering right now is that the culture of business that sponsors and finances video on the web is completely linear and their concepts of what videos are are completely past-based. They need terminology that has content fit in boxes of a defined shape and size in order to survive and to justify the funding of projects, and this poses a problem for producers that don't want to be confined by those boxes. And we're seeing many well-intended agreements unravel and many wonderfully-conceived video projects lose their organic feel and charismatic nature because of this collision of the linear and non-linear. as videobloggers...as creative people making original work in a completely new media...we need to first ask ourselves what we want. Don't be so quick to take the couple of financial choices that the established system are comfortable offering. Remember, the house always wins because they make the rules. Jay [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: A Video Middle Class?
Interesting! I am actually out a few of my musician friends by making videos for them. It kind of blend the two worlds together. As far as independent film makers getting away from the middle man, I feel that now more then ever people are able to promote their videos without a middle man at all. In fact I would say that the video is ahead of the music industry in this trend. Shawn Carpenter http://spcbrass.wordpress.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read this good blog post: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070923-barrier-bustin-internet-may-lead-to-a-music-industry-middle-class.html The premise is that there is a burgeoning class of musicians are forming direct relationships with their fans. This cuts out the agency middle men...and all the high costs of promotion. Independent musicians can then hope to make a living by selling their own music and doing live performances. Reading the article, I wonder if you could apply the same logic to online video. Do independent video makers need to rely on advertising modelscontinuing the same relationship to a bloated middle man? Or will a different relationship develop between people watching and the people who make the stuff they want to watch? jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Twitter: http://tinyurl.com/2aodyc RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
