date:20110707


At 03:18 PM 7/7/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This sounds like the heater is used only to bring the cell up to the 
operating temperature to trigger the reaction. I think they said the 
method of regulating the reaction is to vary gas pressure, rather 
than Rossi's method of changing the auxiliary electric heater power.


There appear to be substantial differences between the way Defkalion 
engineers the cells and controls them, and the way Rossi does.


- Jed


(I don't see a way to get the link)
Re: Wish list for ECAT device

Dave wrote:
3) There seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the 
operation of the external heating element. Is this element active 
during normal operation of the Hyperion?.


Yes

Dave wrote:
4) Do you use the external heating element as part of the power control loop?.

Yes

[Vo]: Time-lapse of massive dust storm hitting Phoenix...

Amazing video (time-lapse) of massive dust storm in Phoenix, Arizona...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYnuzoH5oBA&feature=related 

Note the sky above the leading edge and how clouds form... Temperature and 
pressure must be changing
quite dramatically.

-Mark

[Vo]:Vortex-l Backup Resend

(Sorry if this shows up more than once)

Just in case of a catastrophic failure of the Vortex-l list.  I have
created a yahoo group called Vortex-l Backup.

The homepage is:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vortex-l-backup

and the email address is:  vortex-l-bac...@yahoogroups.com

Right now it is wide open.  You don't even have to join to post.  All
file archives are open.

This is NOT an attempt to hijack Bill Beaty's group.  God Forbid!

Note that you will have to join if you want posts remailed to your address.

You may send your messages to both lists if you wish.

T

[Vo]:Defkalion comments on the role of the electric heater

This sounds like the heater is used only to bring the cell up to the
operating temperature to trigger the reaction. I think they said the method
of regulating the reaction is to vary gas pressure, rather than Rossi's
method of changing the auxiliary electric heater power.

There appear to be substantial differences between the way Defkalion
engineers the cells and controls them, and the way Rossi does.

- Jed

QUESTION

Defkalion GT,

In another thread you wrote, and I quote:

Defkalion GT wrote:
(there are no industrial secrets living in the electric heater or its role)


In light of this, would you please tell us what purpose the *two* electric
heaters serve in the e-Cat? From previous comments made by Rossi, I
understand that the first heater is a "primary" or "main" and the second a
"safety".

Regarding the primary heater, how is it that a heater can be used to *
control* the robust exothermic reaction in the e-Cat? If the primary heater
is disengaged, does this cause the reaction to cease in a rapid fashion?

And if this is correct, how can a second heater serve as a safety device? If
the reaction can be controlled or shut down by removing power from the first
heater, wouldn't engaging the second heater just re-start the reaction?
Under which circumstances would the safety heater be engaged or disengaged?

You can see how this may be confusing and appear contradictory - but the
answers may lie in what is meant by 'safety' in this instance. Can you
please explain the purpose and action of the safety heater - and who or what
is being kept safe from what potential harm or other eventuality?

Thank you in advance. Reasonable answers to these questions would be greatly
appreciated by myself, and others as well.


ANSWER

In a post 
(viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54)
we answered to one quiestion on our products functionality as follows:

*
Every kW Hyperion products is equiped with electronics and sensors that,
among other, monitor in "real time" the mass/sec and the temperature
difference (Delta) between output and input of the coolant in use (mass
calorimeter). If this Delta is beyond a pre-defined point at products
installation then:
If it is a singe reactor unit, the reactor stops
If it is a multi-reactor unit, then either some reactor(s) stop or all
reactors stop based to a performance balance algorithm within
safety/operational electronics.
So, to answer your question: If you "consume" the heat energy, then the
Hyperion continious to produce heat energy so you can achive max performance
at any time of the day. If you do not "consume", Hyperion turns off and then
on automaticaly.*

The electric heating system is part of the switching system of our products.
It is required to heat the reactor every time it is needed to be turned on,
as already explained also by A.Rossi and described in his patent
application. This switching mechanism is playing a significant role on the
functionality and safety of our products.

There is not any positive contribution from the electric heating system to
the performance ratio of our products.

Thank you for your question and your interest on our products.

RE: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

T:
You mean a 'dream' like the one of the snake and carbon-ring structure?

Did it work out? Was it another example of the unconscious mind solving the 
problem before the
conscious mind became aware of it?

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 2:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Mark Iverson  wrote:
> He also uses: Tinsel Koala

Yes, the same dude who allegedly made a self running "whipmag" motor based on a 
dream by a member of
the Steorn forum.

T

Re: [Vo]:This is a hard-luck country-western ballad ISP?

Yeah, uh, a bit disconcerting.

Just in case of a catastrophic failure of the Vortex-l list.  I have
created a yahoo group called Vortex-l Backup.

The homepage is:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vortex-l-backup

and the email address is:  vortex-l-bac...@yahoogroups.com

Right now it is wide open.  You don't even have to join to post.  All
file archives are open.

This is NOT an attempt to hijack Bill Beaty's group.  God Forbid!

It's just that Carl is out of spares and Robert is, er, not out.

T

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Joshua Cude

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Jouni Valkonen 
 wrote:

> If considered that in E-Cat there is constantly flowing cool water to
> replenish boiled water, then it is quite obvious that 2.5 kilowatt is
> very much possible with Mats' E-Cat.

I disagree. Heating the constant flow of cool water (at 1 g/L) to the
boiling point consumes 300W in Lewan's experiment. That can be calculated.
That leaves 2.2 kW for steam production, to be compared directly with the
video. Even if you consider the two plumes to be similar, Lewan's claim is
at least a factor of 2 too high. 2.5 kW is not very much possible.

But the plume in Lewan's video seems far smaller than the in the kitchen
video, meaning that a small increase in the power by Rossi when he is
off-camera can easily explain the observations.

The thing about the 4 or 5 or 10 kW claims is that they make faking it much
more difficult, because ordinary mains circuits don't usually supply that
kind of power. Once you reduce these claims into the kW or few hundred watt
range, then some simple power or flow rate misrepresentations is all it
takes.

However Steven's E-Cat was
> malfunctioning while video was shot.
>

Has Rossi made this excuse, or have you taken to making excuses for him?

>
> That stove was quite modern, therefore it is likely that around 90% of
> heat goes for boiling water, because it is good idea to design stoves
> that produces as little as possible waste heat.

The stove design has nothing to do with how much heat is captured by the
pot. You can see the heating element. That means IR is quite clearly
escaping. Look at the trouble Rossi went to to insulate his ecat, so that
all the heat went in to the water. In the kitchen video, heat escapes before
it enters the pot, and the pot itself is not insulated, and quite large, and
will also lose heat.

  This is the only reasonable way to calculate the power

> output. Because we know that this kind of setup produces DRY STEAM and
> we can calculate the power directly from the reduced mass of the pot.
>

Drier steam, presumably, but a boiler typically produces 5% wet steam. In
the write-up, they say they produced both dry and wet steam.

Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Mark Iverson  wrote:
> He also uses: Tinsel Koala

Yes, the same dude who allegedly made a self running "whipmag" motor
based on a dream by a member of the Steorn forum.

T

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.


[  Delayed by jail-house-mail  -- should be BEFORE my comment on test3 ]

At 11:16 AM 7/7/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:

Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a
4m long hose:  .
What do you think?


Not enough controls.

But THIS guy's interesting  TinselKoala  (his videos are long, 
but show the whole process)
Ah again    See the Stella Nokia anagram thread.   It only 
just struck me they're the same.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXwRRivQ9Y  eKitty1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bELcYma26aI Boiling water at 800W
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dau3nBNxDSo eKitty supplemental -- 
thermometer callibration


At 800W he boiled 40mL of water in 180 secs. That's 0.22 mL/sec 
compared to Rossi/Krivit's 2mL/sec


There's a Test 3 I haven't watched yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ser9_tGiU

In a separate series he did some amusing electrical stuff on a "Joule 
Thief" -- highlighting the perils of HF futz on electrical circuits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWDfrzBIxoQ

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.


At 01:48 PM 7/7/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

There's a Test 3 I haven't watched yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ser9_tGiU


Oops -- that's a different one -- Mr Powerpuff.

But it DOES show how water collects in the hose.

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Daniel Rocha

The original post is here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.energikatalysatorn.se%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D2%26t%3D143

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Jouni Valkonen

If considered that in E-Cat there is constantly flowing cool water to
replenish boiled water, then it is quite obvious that 2.5 kilowatt is
very much possible with Mats' E-Cat. However Steven's E-Cat was
malfunctioning while video was shot.

That stove was quite modern, therefore it is likely that around 90% of
heat goes for boiling water, because it is good idea to design stoves
that produces as little as possible waste heat. However it would have
been a good idea to measure weight of the pot before and after the
experiment. This is the only reasonable way to calculate the power
output. Because we know that this kind of setup produces DRY STEAM and
we can calculate the power directly from the reduced mass of the pot.

–Jouni

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Daniel Rocha

The woven works at 1700W.

RE: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

He also uses: Tinsel Koala

-Mark

  _  

From: Alan J Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:04 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff


At 12:54 PM 7/7/2011, Mark Iverson wrote:


Nikola Tesla...


Ahhh .

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.


It is hard to tell, but that does look similar to NyTeknik's video.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

Alan J Fletcher  wrote:

 At 12:54 PM 7/7/2011, Mark Iverson wrote:
>
> Nikola Tesla...
>
>
> Ahhh .
>

It can't be him. He's dead.

- Jed

[Vo]:This is a hard-luck country-western ballad ISP?


Good grief!

Terry Blanton reports that this discussion group is being hosted on an 
ISP afflicted with the problems of a country-western hard-luck ballad; 
i.e., the dog died, Robert is in prison, and the singer's best friend 
left with the truck and the wife:


   That would be Carl.  He's kinda filling in.  Here's a post from the
   EskimoNorthUsers Yahoo group from Tuesday:

   Today the mail server crashed, and the web server crashed. The mail
   server is now back online, however the web server really bit the
   dust this time. The cpu in it died. I have replaced the motherboard
   and cpu, with one that has two cpu's on it. They are both 300Mhz,
   instead of 400mhz, but there is two of them instead of one.
   Hopefully they can handle the load for now because it's all I have
   for spares until Robert gets out of Prison. . . .


I thought this kind of ISP went extinct in the 1990s.

Maybe we should consider moving to another ISP? The problem with 
rejected messages is annoying.


- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff



At 12:54 PM 7/7/2011, Mark Iverson wrote:

Nikola Tesla...
Ahhh .

RE: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

Josh wrote:
 
"Surely someone so brilliant to find the solution to the world's energy 
problems, should be able to
design an airtight demonstration of it, that the galloping gourmet can't 
dispute." 
 
I'm sure Rossi could if he wanted to... he just doesn't have the time, and has 
stated that several
times.  Live with it.  It certainly isn't a valid reason for making any kind of 
conclusions...
 
Doing these demos has been a distraction for him, and they aren't important to 
achieving his
short-term goal of getting the 1MW plant online in Oct.

-Mark

RE: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

Nikola Tesla...

-Mark

  _  

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 11:36 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff


On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote: 
 

Re: Unban Stella_Nokia




Recognize the anagram?

T

Re: [Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Joshua Cude

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a
> 4m long hose:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwINedGR_Q
>
> It does look like the swedish's magzine video, NyTeknik, including the
> weird sounds, around 1200W:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SeOteFPtM
>
> What do you think?
>
>
1. Lewan claimed 2.3 to 2.6 kW (of which 300 W is needed to heat the water
to the boiling point). So at least 2 kW would have been going in to the
steam formation. In Krivit's case, more than 4 kW go into making steam.

2. The steam from this video looks like a lot more steam to me than Lewan
showed, especially more than what was shown when Lewan's camera first pans
into the other room. The steam or bubbling seems to increase substantially
while Lewan examines it, and Rossi is off-camera. And the steam is certainly
far more than observed in the Krivit video.

3. The new video uses a heating element underneath the pot, not inside the
water. The heater is clearly visible in the video, which means a substantial
fraction of the heat will not have made it into the water.

Best case for Rossi: The levels of steam are similar, and the efficiency in
the stovetop video is 100%, Lewan is exaggerating the output power by a
factor of 2, and Krivit (or Rossi in Krivit's demo) by a factor of 4.

Medium case: The efficiency of the stove heating is 60%, the steam in
Lewan's and Krivit's video is 60% as much as in the stovetop video. Then the
steam in the ecat demo videos represents about 400 W. In Lewan's case, given
the input 300W is consumed to raise the water to boiling, that would
represent 400 W excess, a factor of 5 lower than Lewan claimed. In Krivit's
case, the input 800 W exceeds the power needed to raise the water to boiling
by 200W, so that represents about 200W excess, a factor of 20 less than
Rossi claimed.

Most likely case: The stove efficiency is 60% and the steam in the ecat
videos is 60% as much as in the stovetop video, and the flow rate or input
power are misrepresented a little. In Krivit's case, if the flow rate is
lower by a factor of 2, then only 300W is needed to heat the water, leaving
500W to produce steam, entirely consistent with what is observed. In Lewan's
case, if the power is increased to 700 W, then subtracting 300W to heat the
water, leaves 400W for steam, again consistent with observation.

Of course the numbers are guesses. But the video clearly demonstrates that
the output power is without question exaggerated in both the Lewan and
Krivit demos. Considering the input power could have easily been raised to
more than 1 kW, it demonstrates that plausible misrepresentations can
explain all the observations, without invoking exotic nuclear reactions.

But we should all agree that this situation is profoundly silly. That
experiments in someone's kitchen with a roll of masking tape, a cooking pot,
and a garden hose can raise questions about a demonstration of a
revolutionary new source of energy, should give everyone pause.

Surely someone so brilliant to find the solution to the world's energy
problems, should be able to design an airtight demonstration of it, that the
galloping gourmet can't dispute.

Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:


> Re: Unban Stella_Nokia
>

Recognize the anagram?

T

[Vo]:Perfect simulation of e-cat with 1200W, for Lewan's video.

2011-07-07 Thread Daniel Rocha

Take a look at this video, simulating steam production at 1200W with a
4m long hose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVwINedGR_Q

It does look like the swedish's magzine video, NyTeknik, including the
weird sounds, around 1200W:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8SeOteFPtM

What do you think?

RE: [Vo]:OT: Economic Disruptions of the Global and Domestic Kind

Steven wrote:
"Sigh... guess I'll have to get my own."

Come on Steven, 'fess-up... that was your plan all along!!!
;-) 
Now you won't have to share...

-Mark

[Vo]:OT: Economic Disruptions of the Global and Domestic Kind

2011-07-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

In lieu of the potential disruptions to the global economy
corporations like Defkalion might eventually unleash across the
planet, I have a more personal story to tell of the economic
disruptive kind. ...Another sign-of-the-times.

A couple of weeks ago I bought an Apple i-Pad for, ahem... business
reasons. My wife and I go to science fiction conventions, and we
needed a practical way to accept real-time credit cards charges from
customers interested in purchasing items from our inventory of goods.
The i-Pad, i-Phone (as well as Android compatible devices can now
accept Credit Card charges real-time with the use of a tiny little
device called "The Square". See:

https://squareup.com/

All one needs to do is set up an account with Square. They charge
2.75% based on the total amount charged to the customer. Moneys go
directly to a designated bank account of your choice. The service is
easy and a lot cheaper to use than previous Merchant Card services I
had been forced to use for years. I would call the Square a major
economic disruptor within the Merchant Credit Card Services Industry.
Most of these other services charge a lot more than what the Square
charges. The Square is ideal for small and medium sized mom & pop
business enterprises, especially highly mobile ones.

Meanwhile, my wife, who had until now always been low-tech, slow-tech,
and no-tech, has become completely enamored with the i-Pad. She has
finally learned to surf the web via Safari. He is perusing garden &
art supply catalogues. She is even asking me to help set her up with
her own eMail account. But that's not the worst of it. We subscribe to
the Netflix service and I have installed iTunes and the Apple TV
"black cube". Both services are accessible on the i-Pad screen via the
household WiFi router. My wife is rapidly turning into an i-Pad video
junkie. She is currently main-lining the entire science fiction series
of FarScape... at least 3 episodic (fixes) per day. We are now
fighting over who gets to use the i-Pad.

Sigh... guess I'll have to get my own.

A Pox on you, Mr. Jobs!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Comment from Defkalion forum -- miscellaneous stuff

[ This message is delayed from yesterday's "prison" foo
]

The defkalion search is working pretty well for me.

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=Defkalion+GT

A couple of goodies :
Re: Who are we communicating with @ Defkalion GT

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=229&p=2982&sid=fb0a615865a2ad3fd8e83a84cbf39747#p2982

we can not name user Defkalion GT a spokesman as far as during this week
consists of three men and a woman that are responsible to support and
monitor our forum.
...
The one responsible to shoot with the keyboard this post works in R&D
and obviously is the good guy. Unfortunately this position (shooting with
the keyboard as the good guy) is a rolling, as far as every week a
different R&D good guy takes this responsibility. Very good chance to
rest and to see "what is going out there".
In most cases, comments posted as Defkalion GT are agreed within
the team. In case there is something we do not know, we go and ask heads
of other departments and then respond to you accordingly.
Two of this team, the ugly and the good, have personal experiences in
tests in different levels, including performance tests on e-cat lab
prototypes and Hyperions.
...
- - - - - -
Re: Wish list for ECAT devices

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=139&p=2832&sid=fb0a615865a2ad3fd8e83a84cbf39747#p2832

Dave wrote:
2) A second part of this question is: At what temperature does the core
operate?.
The tempereratures of the e-cat/ kernel of Hyperion, never exceeds 500C
in a controlled operation. In case of fail of a critical component in
Hyperions, there are safety mechanisms that put kernel operation off. In
a non-controlled environment, meaning the operation of a e-cat with
extreme setup adjustments and with the absense of any controls, it is
posible to reach temperatures that melt the kernel. In all of such tests
performed, such melting conditions had stoped the reaction (which is not
a chain reaction) with no hazardus emitions of all kind. Still it is
dangerous due to very high temperatures.
[ They confirm the external heater is always in ioperation, and part of
the control loop. ]
- - -
Is there any information on the E-Cat you can share with us NOW that
will make us believe it is real?
Test results will be published. Why is it so important to believe
NOW? We are not selling any products or anything elese now.
- - - -
They have a sense of humor on SOME things :
Re: Atmosphere At Defkalion

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=227&p=2933&sid=fb0a615865a2ad3fd8e83a84cbf39747#p2933

They do not allow us yet to perform explosions of Hyperions at the beach
(according to some people believes, we must have something very explosive
in our hands).
[ and they liked the Hitler video ]
BUT they banned a poster who "insulted" them.
Re: Unban Stella_Nokia

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210&p=2734#p2734

Stella_Nokia's questions or opinions have not and they will not been
moderated. We really thank her for them and her contribution so far but,
in this part of the world we do not play and joke with people's
reputations. And we do not allow anyone to insult our country and its
people using arguments one can buy with 80cents in the corner just to
make some of her arguments to look stronger.
The members of this forum are welcomed but they are hosted in a
Greek forum which, first of all, has to protect some non
negotiable values. Stella was warned twice and she denied to understand
that we do not play games with our people's or our country's reputation
accepting cheap excuses about actors and how beautiful they look in US TV
screens concluding very clearly that she does not care if banned.

- - - - -
Interesting wiki on melting point of nanopowders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting-point_depression

Re: [Vo]:Suppose the DoE were testing a device instead of the Greek Min. of Energy

2011-07-07 Thread Rich Murray

If I had been an ideological skeptic, certain all CF claims were
bogus, erroneous, delusional or fraudulent, I would have been much
quicker to see the obvious unproven aspects of the January 14 Rossi
demo, and the consistent pattern of unproven claims in all the demos
since.  (I've always been ready to accept that CF or LENR is real.)

The blaring announcements of Defkalion fit this pattern rather well.

House of cards processes are notable in history.

The null hypothesis so far has not been falsified by facts...

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:01 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson <
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> That would seem to suggest that Defkalion will probably be able to pay
> salary & utility bills through the end of the year... at least through
> October. ;-)
>

I don't expect to see any IPOs any time soon.  :-)

>
> * * * *
>
> BTW: The vortex-l Eskimo server is experiencing technical
> difficulties. I gather the main person in charge of maintaining the
> servers is on vacation. It may be a while before things are back to
> normal. I've noticed that I have to send messages four or five times
> before one finally gets through.

That would be Carl.  He's kinda filling in.  Here's a post from the
EskimoNorthUsers Yahoo group from Tuesday:

Today the mail server crashed, and the web server crashed. The mail server
is
now back online, however the web server really bit the dust this time. The
cpu
in it died. I have replaced the motherboard and cpu, with one that has two
cpu's on it. They are both 300Mhz, instead of 400mhz, but there is two of
them
instead of one. Hopefully they can handle the load for now because it's all
I
have for spares until Robert gets out of Prison. I should have the web
server
back up within a few hours.

-Carl Dinse

Presently Carl says he doesn't see a problem while other users are
disagreeing.  There is, however, a problem.

T

Re: [Vo]:Suppose the DoE were testing a device instead of the Greek Min. of Energy

2011-07-07 Thread Joshua Cude

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> There is not the slightest chance the government will make a mistake
> measuring 450 W in and 20,000 W out. No engineer or scientists on planet
> earth could make a mistake on that scale.
>

Perhaps not, but if it's true, any engineer or scientist on the planet would
not stop there. They would immediately take the 20 kW out, and use it to
generate the 450 W in. Then they would have infinite gain, and a completely
isolated device generating energy that would not require any expertise to
evaluate it. You said this was trivial. The fact that do something
difficult, which so far has failed to convince the public, but neglect to do
something trivial which could not fail to convince the public leaves a lot
of people skeptical.

> It seems to me this is exactly what skeptics have been demanding of cold
> fusion all these years.

It's not even what you have been asking for: an isolated device that stays
warmer than its surroundings for a really long time.

What more do these people want?!?

An isolated device, please. No input. At all.

Re: [Vo]:Suppose the DoE were testing a device instead of the Greek Min. of Energy

Abd's response strikes me as a lot of verbiage the obscures the point 
about these tests. I do not think there is any chance the Minister will 
allow people to blatantly lie about what his Ministry is doing. More to 
the point --


Defkalion says the government will issue reports and a license to sell 
the machines. The reports have to be made public, as a matter of law. 
The government is supposedly testing the device to be sure the excess 
heat is real, and in a different set of tests, to be sure the machines 
are safe.


So if the reports are forthcoming, and they confirm the claims, we will 
know that Defkalion is telling the truth.


If the reports never come out, or if the reports say "there is no excess 
heat" we will know that Defkalion is lying.


I do not think there is any chance the Greek government will conspire 
with Defkalion in fraud or in some sort of gigantic joke. We can rule 
that out. There is not the slightest chance the government will make a 
mistake measuring 450 W in and 20,000 W out. No engineer or scientists 
on planet earth could make a mistake on that scale.


It seems to me this is exactly what skeptics have been demanding of cold 
fusion all these years. This will give us a straightforward yes or no 
answer in a few months. I do not understand why skeptics are complaining 
about this, but several of them are, in private e-mail messages to me. 
What more do these people want?!? They are saying the Greek government 
is too slow or or you can't trust EU engineers to measure the difference 
between 450 W and 20,000 W. That's unreasonable.


- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms

Damon:
 
What do you mean by this statement???
 
"Water at 100 C does not boil and magically get 0.1 degree hotter as steam. 
What were they
thinking?"
 
The temperature of steam can be anywhere from boiling point on up to hundreds 
of degrees... it all
depends on pressure.

-Mark

  _  

From: Damon Craig [mailto:decra...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:58 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Analysis of e-Cat test by E. Storms


E-cats Have No Hair
 
 
Here is my challenge to the rest of you. I will be looking for evidence myself:-

 

What evidence exists that water does not rise in the chimney and weep or 
splatter into the exit
tube?

 

So far we seem to only have the assurance of our intrepid Phd's operating 
outside of the domain of
their expertise. This obtained: 

 

1) Misapplication of a humidity probe which returned meaningless results. "Not 
even wrong", in the
words of Wolfgang Pauli.

 

2) Invalid interpretation of a thermometer reading. 

 

The simple explanation is that liquid water simply overflows out the exit. 

 

Interpreting the thermometer reading of 100.1 C as an indication that the 
chimney contained water in
the gaseous phase, no matter how wet, is an error. It takes only a one foot 
head of water to raise
the boiling point of water to 101 C. As well, 0.1 C is less than half the error 
I have seen in
specifications for commercial probes in ideal conditions.

 

Water at 100 C does not boil and magically get 0.1 degree hotter as steam. What 
were they thinking? 

 

I have no idea. But we did get treated to Phd's experimenting and reporting 
outside their domain of
experience. If I am mistaken and one of them is experienced at 
Calorimetry---well, that person might
have some explaining to do.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

2011-07-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

>From Terry:

> The story is that they are funded by expat Greeks living in Canada to the
> tune of €400M.  The funds are allegedly committed but the actual status is
> not public, AFAIK.  They have been approached with offers of more funding;
> but, they have smiled and said "no thanks".

That would seem to suggest that Defkalion will probably be able to pay
salary & utility bills through the end of the year... at least through
October. ;-)

* * * *

BTW: The vortex-l Eskimo server is experiencing technical
difficulties. I gather the main person in charge of maintaining the
servers is on vacation. It may be a while before things are back to
normal. I've noticed that I have to send messages four or five times
before one finally gets through.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:30 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson <
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on the current status of
> Defkalion's piggy bank?

The story is that they are funded by expat Greeks living in Canada to the
tune of €400M.  The funds are allegedly committed but the actual status is
not public, AFAIK.  They have been approached with offers of more funding;
but, they have smiled and said "no thanks".

T

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

2011-07-07 Thread Rock_nj

Jed.  Time will tell.  I sincerely hope I am wrong with my cynical view of
the way Rossi and Defkalion are doing things.  I have been waiting as long
as everyone to see a cold fusion related product reach the marketplace.  We
need it now more than ever with oil prices over $100 barrel and peak oil
looming in the not too distant future.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>  Rock_nj  wrote:
>
> Exactly the way "free energy" inventor (scammer) Dennis Lee raised money,
>> by selling dealerships.  Why would Defkalion need to sell dealerships to
>> raise money if they have such a blockbuster energy product?  This thing is
>> really starting to smell bad.
>
>
> This is also exactly the way a legitimate company sells machines that
> require maintenance and regular servicing, such as air conditioners, boilers
> and automobiles. Do you expect them to set up direct dealerships and support
> staff in every city?
>
> Rock_nj has a damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they don't attitude. Defkalion
> is looking for OEM and dealerships. This is what anyone in their business
> would do. They have also set up a web site and they are holding press
> conferences. Again, any legitimate business would do this. Yes, this is also
> what a scammer does. You can make a long list of things that scammers and
> real businesses have in common. Every time Defkalion does something on the
> list, you can point to that as evidence that they are not legitimate. This
> is illogical and it proves nothing either way.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

2011-07-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

Terry Sez:

> Can I borrow $58M?

Well... according to my unorthodox "Witch Doctor" source, Rossi &
Associates are still in need of a lot of cash in order to finish basic
R&D. Despite certain misgivings already expressed here it seems to me
that offering up dealerships might be a reasonable/legitimate way of
drumming up a few credits here and there. Alas, I wish I knew if
Defkalion really is cash strapped. I'm inclined to assume they are.

Of course, all of the above is nothing more than highly speculative
ramblings on my part - largely based on "the Doctor's" alleged
assessment of Rossi. I didn't really ask "the Doctor" specifically
about the status of Defkalion.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the current status of
Defkalion's piggy bank?

Inquiring Minds want to know. ;-)

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

Rock_nj  wrote:

Exactly the way "free energy" inventor (scammer) Dennis Lee raised money, by
> selling dealerships.  Why would Defkalion need to sell dealerships to raise
> money if they have such a blockbuster energy product?  This thing is really
> starting to smell bad.

This is also exactly the way a legitimate company sells machines that
require maintenance and regular servicing, such as air conditioners, boilers
and automobiles. Do you expect them to set up direct dealerships and support
staff in every city?

Rock_nj has a damned-if-they-do, damned-if-they don't attitude. Defkalion is
looking for OEM and dealerships. This is what anyone in their business would
do. They have also set up a web site and they are holding press conferences.
Again, any legitimate business would do this. Yes, this is also what a
scammer does. You can make a long list of things that scammers and real
businesses have in common. Every time Defkalion does something on the list,
you can point to that as evidence that they are not legitimate. This is
illogical and it proves nothing either way.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

2011-07-07 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax


At 08:54 AM 7/7/2011, Rock_nj wrote:
Exactly the way "free energy"Â inventor 
(scammer)Â Dennis Lee raised money, by selling 
dealerships.Â  Why would Defkaâlion need to 
sell dealerships to raise money if they have 
such a blockbuster energy product?Â  This thing 
is really starting to smell bad.


This is nothing either way. Defkalion might even 
be incomplete in their own testing, but they are 
looking ahead to success. Or they know very well 
what they have, and they are handling this as 
described. Nothing about this announcement 
indicates that they "need to raise money." They 
are responding to inquiries. What would you have them say, "No, go away!"???


Even if they have nothing, signing an agreement 
for rights would not be fraud. BlackLight Power 
has signed agreements for rights or sales. There 
is no fraud unless special conditions arise. 
Including actual payment. The agreement to 
purchase rights, the agreement to sell rights, 
doesn't establish payment. And payment might be 
explicitly stated as non-refundable or as refundable under certain conditions.


It's all speculation. What I see in the comment 
above is conclusions based on belief in bogosity.


I'm more interested in what they claim about web 
hits and numbers of companies inquiring. I'm not 
surprised. But that claim is not authoritative, 
it could be exaggerated, or not.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

2011-07-07 Thread Rock_nj

Exactly the way "free energy" inventor (scammer) Dennis Lee raised money, by
selling dealerships.  Why would Defkalion need to sell dealerships to raise
money if they have such a blockbuster energy product?  This thing is really
starting to smell bad.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:39 AM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> July 6th, 2011
> Dear interested party,
> You have received this email because you have shown an initial interest for
> commercial involvement with our company and our products based on Andrea
> Rossi’s
> e-Cat invention (exothermic reaction between Hydrogen and Nickel).
> Many have signed non disclosure agreements with us and others are in the
> process of
> doing so. We offer you the possibility to meet with us prior to our public
> announcement that we accept international expressions of interest through
> our
> website as of September 2011.
> As such, this letter will update you on our current status, and provide you
> with a
> clearer understanding of the structure with which we are proceeding for all
> international partnerships. As many of you know, the manner is the same
> globally.
> Regarding exclusivity, having received expressions of interest from 63
> countries and
> more than 850 companies, we decided to change our non-exclusivity approach
> so that
> due diligence and selection of multiple partners in any given country is
> the
> responsibility off the country rights holder. As such, we will only sign
> agreements with
> one company per country. Any additional factories will pass through this
> partner.
> --- ---
> Regarding our international sales approach, it is as follows:
>  We sell the rights to manufacture our products exclusively to one company
> for
> a given country at a fixed royalty price of 40.5 million Euros per factory
> producing 300,000 units annually. Within this price, we will:
> o Provide the blueprints to establish the factory according to our
> international standardized plans, including all details for the machinery
> / software / technical know-how used in the factory.
> o Provide transfer-of-knowledge (production, technical, after sales,
> maintenance) both in Greece as well as on location
>  Additional royalties are paid to us for each product sold
>  We sell and deliver the industrial secret as a component to the final
> product in
> a black box, plug-and-play module.
>  Local company partnerships, marketing, points of sales, technical support
> remains the responsibility of the country rights holder.
>  If additional factories need to be built, the same principles remain.
>  Our business and pricing is structured to create lucrative win-win
> opportunities
> for all.
>
> Regarding time-line and milestones for those interested to proceed in
> talks:
>  Initial meeting in Athens during July and August (except 14-20 July and
> 10-20
> August) to discuss and sign preliminary expression of interest contract,
> whereby the opportunity to secure the exclusive rights will be given.
>  Meeting in our factory during October to inspect and verify kW units
>  Meeting in our factory during December to inspect and verify MW units
> --- ---
> Regarding next steps, and based on the information provided herein, if you
> see
> opportunities that match your company’s capabilities, and if you believe
> your company
> qualifies to proceed with further talks, we welcome your reply to this
> email
> accordingly in order to:
>  Signing of a non disclosure confidentiality agreement sent by us upon
> request
>  Secure a date for a meeting in Athens during July or August
> The abovementioned initial meeting in our offices here in Athens should not
> last more
> than 3-5 hours. Appointments will be set according to availability. As
> mentioned
> above, these meetings will take place during July (excluding above dates).
> --- ---
> Regarding factory specs, below is some basic information regarding the
> overview of
> the factory requirements according to our standards. Many of you will have
> already
> seen these figures; nothing has changed:
> Larger and smaller factories can be negotiated according to markets. Basic
> aspects of
> each factory producing 300,000 units annually (kW and MW product ranges)
> are:
>  12,000m2 space (maximum height of 14 meters for half of the allocated
> space)
>  IT to monitor production line, 1st level support and distribution
> channels
> Assembly of products will include the following activities:
>  Build-up of final product (electronics, heat management, etc)
>  Assembly of reactors (purchased from Defkalion)
>  Quality Control
>  Total Quality Management
>  Environmental Control
>  Stress Tests
>  Functional Tests of end products
>  Recharging of units
>  Recycling procedures
>
> Factory Special Conditions:
>  Clear air similar to pharmaceutical industry standards
>  Access to constant flow of water
>  Heat management of waste heat during tests of modules (this heat energy
> could also be used to run the factory’s energy needs

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships

Can I borrow $58M?

T

[Vo]:Defkalion Offers Dealerships