date:20120913


Hello group,

Today, Sterling D. Allan of PESN posted a remarkably interesting YouTube 
video of a meeting at EPFL [1] with Nicolas Chauvin of LENR-Cars [2], 
his partner and a PhD student with an interest in LENR.


Nicolas Chauvin plans to replicate a Celani cell and, in collaboration 
with the non-profit organization Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project 
[3], bring it at the EPFL University in order to demonstrate that LENR 
are a real effect that can be useful, and hopefully generate academic 
interest which will allow this field to quickly progress both 
scientifically and commercially (Chauvin's end goal). He hopes to obtain 
a Celani cell within weeks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNzXkapqwQ
(the video is 39:34 minutes long)

Video description from Youtube:


This is a conversation that Nicolas Chauvin had on September 12, 2012 with a 
Chemistry Ph.D. student who is interested in pursuing LENR research. The 
meeting took place in a lounge at EPFL, one of the top universities in the 
world. This was a pre-scheduled meeting prior to Sterling coming to do some 
other videos with Nicolas.

Nicolas' partner is Dr. Antoine Guillemin (PhD in Physics), and the PhD student 
is Simon Bonanni. Simon is presently writing his PhD thesis on nano-cathalisis 
in the lab of Condensed Matter Physics at EPFL. Simon and Antoine agreed to let 
the conversation be recorded.

The accents are hard to understand, and the background noise is louder on the 
recording than it was in real life, but perhaps other university students might 
find this dialogue to be of interest.

In the past, pursuing cold fusion research would be academic suicide for a new 
student. But imagine how that might change once a cold fusion replication kit 
is available for universities that proves the effect is real and practical.

See http://QuantumHeat.org for updates on the Celani cold fusion replication 
kit project Nicolas is spearheading.


Cheers,
S.A.

[1] École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne http://www.epfl.ch/
[2] http://lenr-cars.com/
[3] http://www.quantumheat.org/

RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet

2012-09-13 Thread Jones Beene

 

From: Robert Lynn 

 

A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar
medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and
fires it out the back.  The concept has always had a major flaw in that
hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part of
Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle.

 

fusion proof is not accurate, IMO. In fact, the situation is almost the
opposite. 

 

The problem can be better stated as one in which the initial stage of
hydrogen fusion is of extremely low gain. In fact, it is looking very much
as if the reversible fusion reaction:

 

P+P - 2He -P+P

 

Which accounts for almost all of the nuclear reactions in any star . and
which is the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He -
is not only EASY in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is
slightly gainful in its own right. 

 

It has been assumed in most astrophysics models that proton fusion to 2He is
no gain (e.g. on our sun), but it looks to me like the gain from QCD can
amount to about 10^-16 eV per reaction on average. This explains part of the
solar neutrino deficit. 

 

And therefore this basic proton fusion reaction itself, cannot lead to a
Bussard Ramjet, at least not as initially described. Since the much more
robust beta-decay, which is necessary to transmute two protons into
deuterium (from 2He) is so rare, there can be no 3He or 4He in any such
design due to time constraints. It requires approximately 10^20 P+P fusion
reactions (sequentially) before a single beta decay is seen, and even then
the deuterium does not survive long . as the neutron is stripped off most of
the time before further reaction to helium. If it were not so, stars like
our sun would burn up long before their normal lifetime of ten+ billion
years.

 

This only means that - in a revised Ramjet design - some portion of the
interstellar hydrogen which collected, needs to be routed to LENR reactors,
turned into heat and then into electricity in a completely separate system,
so that the rest of the collected hydrogen (in the Ramjet funnel) can be
magnetically compressed and accelerated as if in a beam line - using the
electrical energy generated (from the portion of hydrogen which is fed to
the LENR reactors). 

 

The end result is almost the same.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.



Andrea Rossi 

September 13th, 2012 at 1:45 AM 
Dear Giuseppe B.:
Mr Gary Wright ( a false name that the coward snake  The Snake- is
using for cowardice, has contacted SGS in an unproper way and has put an
unproper question.
So he published on his newbogusenergybricolage that we do not have a SGS
certificate. This is the evidence, as if there was any necessity, that
when the Snake ( or, better, the puppet Snake) writes, he usually
publishes a falsity.
Within hours you will find our Voluntary Safety Certificate.
So you will see who is that says the truth and who is that has an
agenda.
Now we are very close to make a plant able to make power, and the
puppeteers are trying all they can to discredit us: this is why I am
caring not too much of the mumbojumbo growing up around and focus on the
factory where we are making the real work. But from the violence of the
attacs you can read the fear they have of the fact that we are making it.
Not to mention the blackmails and the threats I am receiving on dayly
scale. Just let me work and well see.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet

2012-09-13 Thread Roarty, Francis X

On Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:25 PM Jones Beene said [snip] the 
prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He - is not only EASY 
in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is slightly gainful in its 
own right. [/snip]
Agreed, and well said  but to clarify, we outside the cavity are now at the 
well bottom relative to the suppression inside the confined cavity and it is we 
that appear to slow down in time like the occupants of a spaceship approaching 
C relative to a tiny observer in the cavity... Or said another way why from our 
perspective reactions appear to happen so much faster inside a catalyst like 
Rayney nickel and why Jan Naudts can describe the hydrino as being relativistic 
without and spatial displacement. It also explains claims of modified 
radioactive decay,
Fran


From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet


From: Robert Lynn

A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar 
medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and 
fires it out the back.  The concept has always had a major flaw in that 
hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part of 
Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle.

fusion proof is not accurate, IMO. In fact, the situation is almost the 
opposite.

The problem can be better stated as one in which the initial stage of hydrogen 
fusion is of extremely low gain. In fact, it is looking very much as if the 
reversible fusion reaction:

P+P - 2He -P+P

Which accounts for almost all of the nuclear reactions in any star ... and 
which is the prerequisite reaction for eventual solar conversion into 4He - is 
not only EASY in a confined cavity (instead of a gravity well) but is slightly 
gainful in its own right.

It has been assumed in most astrophysics models that proton fusion to 2He is no 
gain (e.g. on our sun), but it looks to me like the gain from QCD can amount to 
about 10^-16 eV per reaction on average. This explains part of the solar 
neutrino deficit.

And therefore this basic proton fusion reaction itself, cannot lead to a 
Bussard Ramjet, at least not as initially described. Since the much more robust 
beta-decay, which is necessary to transmute two protons into deuterium (from 
2He) is so rare, there can be no 3He or 4He in any such design due to time 
constraints. It requires approximately 10^20 P+P fusion reactions 
(sequentially) before a single beta decay is seen, and even then the deuterium 
does not survive long ... as the neutron is stripped off most of the time 
before further reaction to helium. If it were not so, stars like our sun would 
burn up long before their normal lifetime of ten+ billion years.

This only means that - in a revised Ramjet design - some portion of the 
interstellar hydrogen which collected, needs to be routed to LENR reactors, 
turned into heat and then into electricity in a completely separate system, so 
that the rest of the collected hydrogen (in the Ramjet funnel) can be 
magnetically compressed and accelerated as if in a beam line - using the 
electrical energy generated (from the portion of hydrogen which is fed to the 
LENR reactors).

The end result is almost the same.

RE: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

2012-09-13 Thread Jones Beene

Is he saying that S. Krivit and Gary Wright are one and the same
individual?

 

 

 

From: Alan J Fletcher 

.

 

Andrea Rossi 
September
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=733cpage=1#comment-320805
13th, 2012 at 1:45 AM 

Dear Giuseppe B.:
Mr Gary Wright ( a false name that the coward snake - The Snake- is using
for cowardice, has contacted SGS in an unproper way and has put an unproper
question.
So he published on his newbogusenergybricolage that we do not have a SGS
certificate. This is the evidence, as if there was any necessity, that when
the Snake ( or, better, the puppet Snake) writes, he usually publishes a
falsity.
Within hours you will find our Voluntary Safety Certificate.
So you will see who is that says the truth and who is that has an agenda.
Now we are very close to make a plant able to make power, and the puppeteers
are trying all they can to discredit us: this is why I am caring not too
much of the mumbojumbo growing up around and focus on the factory where we
are making the real work. But from the violence of the attacs you can read
the fear they have of the fact that we are making it. Not to mention the
blackmails and the threats I am receiving on dayly scale. Just let me work
and we'll see.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Re: [Vo]:An interesting video from PESN - LENR related


At 08:53 AM 9/13/2012, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euNzXkapqwQ
(the video is 39:34 minutes long)


These let the camera run interviews make me appreciate the work of 
a good editor.

Re: [Vo]:New press release on fractal graphite hi-temp superconductivity

2012-09-13 Thread Axil Axil

This part of the paper held interest for me.

*“It may be that the water treatment dopes parts of the grain surfaces with
hydrogen and this element may play an important role as has been also
observed for the magnetic order found in graphite. To check this we have
exposed the virgin graphite powder to hydrogen plasma for 75 minutes at
room temperature. The prepared powder shows the same characteristics as the
water treated one indicating that hydrogen may play a role in this
phenomenon.”*

I speculation on what is happening here as follows:

The hydrogen is ionized into protons and these protons for cooper pairs.
These pairs then form a condensate on the surface of the graphite grains
that support superconducting current flow and associated magnetic behavior.
A superconductive cable or rope might be formed using a bundling of carbon
nanotubes inside a copper or aluminum tube that has been filled with
hydrogen under pressure.

Protons would fill the inside of the SWNT as a superconducting condensate.

Checking this tube for room temperature superconductivity would be an
interesting experiment to run.

Cheers:Axil

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

Excellent find Lou.

This gives me some encouragement that I am proceeding in the right
direction with my Carbon Nanohorn research.

We know that carbon nanotubes, which are essentially graphene sheets,
exhibit superconductive behavior at low temps. Further we know that these
same carbon nanotubes exhibit ballistic conduction at higher temps even
above room temps. Further, we know from research to use CNTs in hydrogen
storage, that hydrogen ions/gas at certain conditions would dissociate and
stick to carbon nanotube walls and hydrogenate and functionalize these
CNTs. Further, we know that CNTs, especially SWNTs, exhibit long electron
coherence lengths. Further, we also know that electrons will accumulate in
CNT tips and promtoe field emissions. Further, we also know that electrons
flowing on a CNT will charge screen ions that are within its charge
screening radius (CNT diameter.) Further, we also know that CNTs will
carry huge amounts of currents, more than what can be explained by simple
electron flow theory - in metals.

And finally, we know that superconductivity MAY be correlated to anomalous
heat release.

Therefore, I feel that CNTs are really the rgiht materials to serve as
NAEs.

One thing I found interesting was that the phenomena disappeared when they
compressed the graphene powder. This indicates to me that this may have
something to do with the destruction of the long filamentous graphene
nanowhiskers that are associated with the phenomena. These filamentous
whiskers appear to be critical to superconductive behaviour. This, of
course, is what I think may be happening in my carbon nanotube theory. The
phenomena these physicists found may be an LENR phenomena.

Oh, I wished I can go back there to the states right now so that I can
build my proof of concept reactor. But, in the mean time, finds like these
are excellent. Thanks.

Jojo

- Original Message - From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:46 AM
Subject: [Vo]:New press release on fractal graphite hi-temp
superconductivity

Tom Andersen just sent me this new press release on hi-temp 'fractal'
superconductivity -

Room Temperature Superconductivity Found in Graphite Grains

Water-soaked grains of carbon superconduct at room temperature,
claim a team of physicists from Germany

http://www.technologyreview.**com/view/429203/room-**
temperature-superconductivity-**found-in/?ref=rsshttp://www.technologyreview.com/view/429203/room-temperature-superconductivity-found-in/?ref=rss

Their full preprint is available at -

Can doping graphite trigger room temperature superconductivity? Evidence
for granular high-temperature superconductivity in water-treated graphite
powder
http://arxiv.org/abs/1209.1938

For those interested in hi-temp super-/ballistic-conductivity,
in fractal and colloidal conductors, here are some related papers
by the same group, and two (possibly) related patents:

Length dependence of the resistance in graphite: Influence of ballistic
transport
http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3004

Ballistic transport at room temperature in micrometer size multigraphene
http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.1100

Ferromagnetic- and superconducting-like behavior of the electrical
resistance of inhomogeneous graphite flake
http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3303

==**==**

US Patent Application 20080085834
- Superconductive circuits with efficient method

The present invention relates to superconductors, superconductive
circuits, and electrical superconductive processes. More specifically,
this invention relates to high-temperature superconductors and electrical
superconductive

Re: [Vo]:Wikipedia E-Cat article for deletion



I went with a non-snarky fairly neutral wait and see
response:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Energy_Catalyzer_(2nd_nomination)#Energy_Catalyzer
 
Keep Although the eCat has not achieved mainstream media
attention, there is sufficient
Non-WP:RS
evidence that things are happening behind the scenes (with a resolution
on a relatively short timescale -- say 3-6 months) -- that we're still in
a wait and see status. There is no particular reason to
delete it
now.Alanf777
(talk)
18:02, 13 September 2012 (UTC) 
I'm wondering now whether to jump back into the editing fray.

Re: [Vo]:Website on LENR Fuel Preparation

Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:


 Adding gold coating is the antithesis of trying to find a cheap fuel . . .


True. But maybe not a showstopper. Thin film gold is used in computer
boards and plugs. If the gold can be effectively captured and recycled
perhaps this could be made to work. I do not think the goal would transmute
the way host metals sometimes do.

I think this would be cheaper than using palladium.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Website on LENR Fuel Preparation

Meant:

I do not think the GOLD would transmute the way host metals sometimes do.

Voice input error.


It would be better to use cheap materials.

- Jed

[Vo]:Anti-cold fusion views, frozen in time

Here is a good example of a mass media article opposed to cold fusion:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/12/1130792/-Romney-s-Science-Fail-on-Cold-Fusion

The article and the comments following it are frozen in time sometime
around July 1989. These people know nothing about the subject. They have
not even bother to read the Wikipedia article. (When I last checked it
wasn't quite as bad as this.)

It is surprising that in the era of the Internet and Google that
people still publish such wildly inaccurate and outdated notions. Of course
it is not limited to cold fusion. Beware of any claim you see on the
Internet or published in the mass media. It might be as inaccurate as
this. An expert such as Collin Powell may tell you there are WMD in
Iraq. His presentation may be convincing. But he might be completely wrong
in every detail.

I do not see any way to add a message to this article or contact the
authors so I will let this one go.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:New press release on fractal graphite hi-temp superconductivity

2012-09-13 Thread David Roberson

What would happen if you took a bundle of moderate length carbon nanotubes that 
are suspected of being capable of superconducting and place these within a 
strong magnetic field.  The magnetic field would penetrate throughout most of 
the forest of CNTs.  Now, give the structure a few whacks (hits) that cause 
some of the tubes to contact each other at both ends where before they were 
open circuited.


If some of the contacting tubes now form closed superconducting paths, they 
will trap the field within and become magnetic once the external field is 
removed.  Perhaps this is a way to prove that they do indeed become 
superconductors at room temperature.


I seem to recall someone using carbon black in an experiment that had them 
convinced that iron was formed because of the residual magnetic effects and 
wonder if something of the nature I mentioned is at work.  This type of 
experiment should be tried especially if it demonstrates room temperature 
superconductivity of CNTs.


Dave



-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 13, 2012 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:New press release on fractal graphite hi-temp 
superconductivity


This part of the paper held interest for me.
“It may be that the water treatment dopes parts of the grain surfaces with 
hydrogen and this element may play an important role as has been also observed 
for the magnetic order found in graphite. To check this we have exposed the 
virgin graphite powder to hydrogen plasma for 75 minutes at room temperature. 
The prepared powder shows the same characteristics as the water treated one 
indicating that hydrogen may play a role in this phenomenon.”
I speculation on what is happening here as follows:
The hydrogen is ionized into protons and these protons for cooper pairs. These 
pairs then form a condensate on the surface of the graphite grains that support 
superconducting current flow and associated magnetic behavior.
A superconductive cable or rope might be formed using a bundling of carbon 
nanotubes inside a copper or aluminum tube that has been filled with hydrogen 
under pressure.

Protons would fill the inside of the SWNT as a superconducting condensate.
 
Checking this tube for room temperature superconductivity would be an 
interesting experiment to run.
 
 
Cheers:Axil



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

Excellent find Lou.

This gives me some encouragement that I am proceeding in the right direction 
with my Carbon Nanohorn research.

We know that carbon nanotubes, which are essentially graphene sheets, exhibit 
superconductive behavior at low temps.  Further we know that these same carbon 
nanotubes exhibit ballistic conduction at higher temps even above room temps.  
Further, we know from research to use CNTs in hydrogen storage, that hydrogen 
ions/gas at certain conditions would dissociate and stick to carbon nanotube 
walls and hydrogenate and functionalize these CNTs. Further, we know that CNTs, 
especially SWNTs, exhibit long electron coherence lengths.  Further, we also 
know that electrons will accumulate in CNT tips and promtoe field emissions.  
Further, we also know that electrons flowing on a CNT will charge screen ions 
that are within its charge screening radius (CNT diameter.)  Further, we also 
know that CNTs will carry huge amounts of currents, more than what can be 
explained by simple electron flow theory - in metals.

And finally, we know that superconductivity MAY be correlated to anomalous heat 
release.

Therefore, I feel that CNTs are really the rgiht materials to serve as NAEs.

One thing I found interesting was that the phenomena disappeared when they 
compressed the graphene powder.  This indicates to me that this may have 
something to do with the destruction of the long filamentous graphene 
nanowhiskers that are associated with the phenomena.  These filamentous 
whiskers appear to be critical to superconductive behaviour.  This, of course, 
is what I think may be happening in my carbon nanotube theory.  The phenomena 
these physicists found may be an LENR phenomena.


Oh, I wished I can go back there to the states right now so that I can build my 
proof of concept reactor.  But, in the mean time, finds like these are 
excellent.  Thanks.


Jojo





- Original Message - From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:46 AM
Subject: [Vo]:New press release on fractal graphite hi-temp superconductivity





Tom Andersen just sent me this new press release on hi-temp 'fractal'
superconductivity -

Room Temperature Superconductivity Found in Graphite Grains

Water-soaked grains of carbon superconduct at room temperature,
claim a team of physicists from Germany

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/429203/room-temperature-superconductivity-found-in/?ref=rss

Their full preprint is available at -

Can doping graphite trigger room temperature

[Vo]:Recycling cold fusion cells should resemble lead-acid battery recycling

This is a obscure topic that has come up from time to time. What are the
prospects for recycling cold fusion cell materials? The answer is: better
than you might think. This is because cold fusion cells will resemble
batteries more than they resemble internal combustion engines (ICE) or
electric power generators.

When you think of a used ICE, you think of metal that has been worn away
and parts that have become dirty. A palladium-based catalytic converter at
the end of its lifetime is a dented, filthy object covered with soot. A
flow of extremely hot gases has passed through it for thousands of hours,
subliming much of the palladium and blowing it out into the environment.
You can recycle these things but you have to do a lot of work to free up
the materials and clean up the mess.

A used-up cold fusion cell, in contrast, is likely to be as clean as the
day it shipped. There is no gas or liquid flowing through it. It is sealed
throughout its service lifetime. It is not exposed to burning hydrocarbon
gases. In short, it resembles a lead acid battery. Few consumer products
are recycled as effectively as batteries. See:

http://www.batterycouncil.org/LeadAcidBatteries/BatteryRecycling/tabid/71/Default.aspx

Lead-acid batteries are the environmental success story of our time. More
than 97 percent of all battery lead is recycled.

The only possible problem with cold fusion will be if the host metal
transmutes. If this happens to a significant extent, then of course the
metal cannot be recycled. This would be a big problem with palladium.
However, with nickel it should not be a problem because whatever the nickel
transmutes into, the end product is likely to be as valuable as the
original nickel was. It may even be more valuable.

In a broader sense --

Because commercial cold fusion does not exist, we often make mistaken
assumptions when we try to imagine how it will work. We compare it to
existing energy systems. An automobile engine today becomes filthy with use
mainly because of the burning gasoline. Without thinking about it, we
assume that a cold fusion engine will also get filthy. Externally it will
get beat up from exposure to air, rain, sand from the road, temperature
variations and so on, but internally it should remain pristine. It will not
wear out the way a piston engine does because there are no moving parts.
The gas may leak out, but the metal and other components will not go
anywhere. They will all be sitting there, ready to be recycled when you
open the cell at the end of the service life.

We make other assumptions based on the fact that today's prototype cold
fusion cells are precious objects that produce very little power. Hal Fox
used to try to imagine a prototype cold fusion automobile engineered to
make the most out of a tiny flow of energy, with lots of clever tricks used
in hybrid automobiles.

People often assume that only a low C.O.P. will be available, so we will
have to find clever ways to make workable heat engines. I assume input will
be hundreds of times lower than output and C.O.P. will be effectively
infinite.

A couple of weeks ago I was talking to someone who supposes that cold
fusion cells will only be cost effective if we manage to use one single
cell for space heating, hot water heating, cooling, power generation and
multiple other uses. In other words, the duty cycle of the cell will have
to be close to 100% because cells will be such expensive and rare items. I
assume that once we master the technology, cold fusion cells will be
dirt-cheap objects which we can manufacture in the millions. If the cold
fusion cell turns on quickly, there would be no reason to make the car a
hybrid. You could waste most of the energy and have a cheap heat engine
transmit mechanical power directly to the wheels, like today's ICE.

We can put at 12 kW cell into a water heater, use it for a few hours a day
and not worry about the cost or the duty cycle. For that matter, we could
put a 100 W cold fusion thermoelectric battery into an emergency exit
lighting system. (Like this one:
http://www.exitlightco.com/product/COMBORJR2.html). We would hope we never
use the emergency sign at all. We would not worry about the fact that 100 W
of capacity is going to waste. We can put 60 kW cell into a co-gen
(combined heat and power) generator, and not worry that for most of the
year most of the heat goes up the chimney and is wasted. We would want to
use a co-gen unit because it takes less equipment and less space, not to
save on the cost of the cold fusion cell.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Recycling cold fusion cells should resemble lead-acid battery recycling

I wrote:


 I assume input will be hundreds of times lower than output and C.O.P. will
 be effectively infinite.


I assume that because it has been done. I am not handwaving or imagining
things without any basis.

If it can happen once in a laboratory today, we will eventually learn to
make it happen billions of times a day worldwide. That has been shown time
after time in the history of modern technology, starting around 1880. Rare
events become commonplace. Rare materials becomes cheap and abundant. The
prime example is aluminum. It was a precious metal in Napoleon's court.
Then in 1889, Charles Hall found a way to extract it cheaply and now we
throw the stuff away.

The solar system has so much raw material in it that in the distant future
we will -- literally -- be able pave our streets in gold if we feel like
it. The only limits will be the environmental harm of putting materials in
places they do not belong.

The most abundant resource, by a huge margin, is energy. The sun produces
2.8 * 10E26 W.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


On 2012-09-12 23:04, Harry Veeder wrote:

This blog called Shut down Rossi can't find any evidence that safety
certificate was issue by SGS as Rossi claims.


Here's the safety certificate by SGS:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105839897/EFA-rep-1107

Source: 
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/andrea-rossi-makes-available-safety-certificate-from-sgs/


It was issued under EFA S.r.l. after all.

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:


 This blog called Shut down Rossi can't find any evidence that safety
 certificate was issue by SGS as Rossi claims.


 Here's the safety certificate by SGS:


I'll be darned! How do you like that?!

As I have often said, Rossi says all kinds of wild stuff, but his core
assertions usually turn out to be true. All this blather about how he is
scam artist and how his tests are fake ignore the facts. Not a single scam
victim has emerged. So where is this scam? Who has been scammed? The only
problems with his tests have been obvious mistakes that he did not even
notice, never mind try to cover up, such as a plugged-up outlet hose.
That's not fake! A fake test would fool someone. You don't fool anyone with
a plugged outlet hose.

Rossi is annoying but you would be a fool to bet against him.

It will be interesting to see whether Shut Down Rossi now Shuts Up. Or
better yet, retracts.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


At 12:55 PM 9/13/2012, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

On 2012-09-12 23:04, Harry Veeder wrote:

This blog called Shut down Rossi can't find any evidence that safety
certificate was issue by SGS as Rossi claims.


Here's the safety certificate by SGS:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105839897/EFA-rep-1107

Source: 
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/andrea-rossi-makes-available-safety-certificate-from-sgs/


It was issued under EFA S.r.l. after all.


I gleefully added it to the wiki (and deletion discussion) !!!

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


On 2012-09-13 22:09, Jed Rothwell wrote:


I'll be darned! How do you like that?!

[...]

Hmm... hold on!
Read this on the bottom of page 2:


This certificate relates solely to the above identified prototype 
machine within the limits of the request for voluntary testing of 
essential health and safety requirements relevant to Annex I of 
Directive 2006/42/EC. The certificate does not constitute a product 
certification and cannot, in any way, be used for commercial purposes 
and / or advertising by the company on whose behalf the certificate was 
issued. The machine must be used according to its own instruction manual 
and in any case, according to the regulations and prescriptions 
applicable int he country in use



Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


At 01:19 PM 9/13/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

I gleefully added it to the wiki (and deletion discussion) !!!


Of course it's been deleted already as a primary source with zero relevance

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Now for the questions -- the certificate states 200kW IN, 1MW out -- 
does the certification confirm those numbers?

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


At 01:42 PM 9/13/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
Now for the questions -- the certificate states 200kW IN, 1MW out -- 
does the certification confirm those numbers?


The directive is at
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!CELEXnumdoclg=ENnumdoc=32006L0032
but it doesn't seem to get down to the actual nuts and bolts of 
what/how anything is tested.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote . . . or translated, I
guess, the small print:


 This certificate relates solely to the above identified prototype machine
 within the limits of the request for voluntary testing of essential health
 and safety requirements relevant to Annex I of Directive 2006/42/EC. The
 certificate does not constitute a product certification and cannot, in
 any way, be used for commercial purposes and / or advertising by the
 company on whose behalf the certificate was issued.


Ah ha! So I guess that means: this is a certificate to operate a prototype
experimental device as such, in an experimental mode.

Right?

It is an official document certifying the reactor.

Well, that is certification, sort of. In a way. A classic Rossi-ism.
Similar to the claim that Ampenergo made an investment. Okay it was not a
gigantic company as he claimed. And they did not actually have any money,
as far as I know. So it was an investment in a narrow sense. V-e-e-r-r-y
narrow. Not as in: someone wrote a check for real money. You might call it
a virtual investment.

This is hysterical.

The reality distortion force field is with you, Obi Wan Kenobi Rossi.

I say never bet against Rossi, and never invest with him.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

2012-09-13 Thread Wolf Fischer

Still - didn't SGS have to test this prototype in some way to find out 
if it runs within their safety parameters? How did they run these tests?


Wolf


Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com 
mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote . . . or translated, I 
guess, the small print:


This certificate relates solely to the above identified prototype
machine within the limits of the request for voluntary testing of
essential health and safety requirements relevant to Annex I of
Directive 2006/42/EC. The certificate does not constitute a
product certification and cannot, in any way, be used for
commercial purposes and / or advertising by the company on whose
behalf the certificate was issued.


Ah ha! So I guess that means: this is a certificate to operate a 
prototype experimental device as such, in an experimental mode.


Right?

It is an official document certifying the reactor.

Well, that is certification, sort of. In a way. A classic Rossi-ism. 
Similar to the claim that Ampenergo made an investment. Okay it was 
not a gigantic company as he claimed. And they did not actually have 
any money, as far as I know. So it was an investment in a narrow 
sense. V-e-e-r-r-y narrow. Not as in: someone wrote a check for real 
money. You might call it a virtual investment.


This is hysterical.

The reality distortion force field is with you, Obi Wan Kenobi Rossi.

I say never bet against Rossi, and never invest with him.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


At 02:03 PM 9/13/2012, Wolf Fischer wrote:
Still - didn't SGS have to test this prototype in some way to find 
out if it runs within their safety parameters? How did they run these tests?


Here's a clear copy as a PDF file : (I'd only seen the jpg)

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/EFA-rep-1107.pdf

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


On 2012-09-13 23:03, Wolf Fischer wrote:

Still - didn't SGS have to test this prototype in some way to find out
if it runs within their safety parameters? How did they run these tests?


Try checking if you can find that out in the following link. This is the 
EC directive under which the 1MW prototype E-Cat model had its safety 
certified:


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2006:157:0024:0086:en:PDF

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote:

 Still - didn't SGS have to test this prototype in some way to find out if
 it runs within their safety parameters? How did they run these tests?


I think you are right.

I was poking fun at this, but Rossi is quite right to say that his reactor
has been officially tested by someone, and certified to be safe for
experimental purposes. That is a significant accomplishment. It deserves
respect.

It is a gigantic reactor, after all. A typical cold fusion reactor is tiny,
producing a few watts at most. It does not need certification. This gadget
surely does, and let us give Rossi credit for having got it.

I was poking fun at this because I assumed that certification means the
government tells you: you now have the right to sell this device
commercially. This document is far from that!

Perhaps Rossi never actually said he has commercial certification. Perhaps
this is yet another miscommunication. Rossi's affairs are rife with such
confusion.

I think he sometimes says misleading things. He says certification giving
the impression it is across-the-board certification, and perhaps he
deliberately refrains from saying it means only permission to continue
with RD at this site, with this machine.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Thanks to AK for the correct link (which I'd already fixed on the 
wiki -- though even my comments in talk have been collapsed -- and 
I'm being threatened with arbitration.)


Article 5 and Annex I indicate that this is at least a pre-requisite 
for commercial sale, and that other regulations may be applicable.

Re: [Vo]:An interesting video from PESN - LENR related

2012-09-13 Thread mixent

In reply to  Akira Shirakawa's message of Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:53:58 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
[2] http://lenr-cars.com/

A 50 kW unit wouldn't need to recharge batteries overnight, and could power the
car for 6 months, allowing indefinite range (far greater than current gasoline
powered cars).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:

Thanks to AK for the correct link (which I'd already fixed on the wiki --
 though even my comments in talk have been collapsed -- and I'm being
 threatened with arbitration.)


'Dat's how it woiks at Wikipedia. First 'dey collapse you. 'Den they
arbitrate you. You know: arbitrate! By sticking your feet in concrete, and
taking you down to the docks for on a long walk on a short pier.

Metaphorically. But it is based on what ya' might call Prohibition era
rum-runners' best practices, 6-sigma-like, such as how to deal with smart
alecs who got no business in this neighborhood, askin' questions what ain't
none of your business, see?!?

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:An interesting video from PESN - LENR related


On 2012-09-13 23:43, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:


A 50 kW unit wouldn't need to recharge batteries overnight, and could power the
car for 6 months, allowing indefinite range (far greater than current gasoline
powered cars).


Have you read their feasibility study here? It's clearer than what's 
presented in their website:


http://lenrnews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LENR_CARS_NChauvin_ILENRS-12x.pdf

By the way, I think Jed Rothwell misses this in his archive, although 
I'm not sure it would be suitable for inclusion.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

2012-09-13 Thread Craig Haynie

Can someone confirm the power output? The certificate says:

Power In: 200 kw (max)
Power Out: 1MW

Water flow rate: 1500 kg/h
Temperature in: 85C
Temperature out: 120C

Craig

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.


At 02:58 PM 9/13/2012, Craig Haynie wrote:

Can someone confirm the power output? The certificate says:

Power In: 200 kw (max) Power Out: 1MW

Water flow rate: 1500 kg/hr  Temperature in: 85C  Temperature out: 120C


As AK pointed out, this particular certificate doesn't certify the 
performance. I think the 85C-in is needed for 120C out. You can feed 
in colder water and get sub-boiling water out. The leaked operating 
manual are clearer on this.

Re: [Vo]:Bussard Ramjet

2012-09-13 Thread mixent

In reply to  Robert Lynn's message of Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:46:45 +0100:
Hi,
[snip]
One of the cool things about Ni-H LENR is that it has the potential to make
Bussard Ramjets more feasible (assuming it is H-H fusion as now seems most
likely).

A Bussard Ramjet is a Rocket that scoops up hydrogen from the interstellar
medium using a vast magnetic and/or electrostatic field, then fuses it and
fires it out the back.  The concept has always had a major flaw in that
hydrogen is nearly fusion-proof in conventional hot fusion except as part
of Carbon-Nitrogen fuel cycle.

Even if that whole fusion reaction happened in a LENR cell and the power
conversion requires a heat engine the energy could still be used to drive a
particle accelerator that accelerated the ash (Helium?) out the back.  You
would essentially never run out of fuel (so long as your LENR lattice
does't get used up), so possibly much faster trips to the stars without the
requirement for ridiculously large exotic (deuterium, lithium or He3) fuel
storage tanks.

Speed might still be limited to a few % of c, but even that looks pretty
good from where we are standing now, as they can also be used for
decelleration and Bussard LENR ramjet ships might be a lot cheaper and more
compact than what was hither-to thought possible.

If the ratio of D/H is the same in interstellar gas as it is in water, then the
average energy available per Hydrogen atom, from H+D - He3 is 857 eV, which is
higher than current chemical fuels by a factor of about 100. Hence the Bussard
Ramjet principle has never had a problem.
BTW you can create an electrical equivalent of the Bussard Ramjet, by shooting a
beam of electrons ahead of the rocket. These attach themselves to hydrogen atoms
forming negative ions which are then attracted to the positive charge left on
the rocket when the electrons were ejected, thus sucking the ions into the
rocket.
The sucking action also imparts momentum to the rocket, in addition to the
momentum acquired by ejecting fast particles out the rear.

(The momentum lost by ejecting the electrons forward is only 2-3% of that
acquired by sucking the ions in, due to the huge difference in mass).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.

2012-09-13 Thread Wolf Fischer

Out of curiosity: Has there ever been a scam in which a safety 
certificate from a big and independent organization has been granted?


Wolf


At 02:58 PM 9/13/2012, Craig Haynie wrote:

Can someone confirm the power output? The certificate says:

Power In: 200 kw (max) Power Out: 1MW

Water flow rate: 1500 kg/hr  Temperature in: 85C  Temperature out: 120C


As AK pointed out, this particular certificate doesn't certify the 
performance. I think the 85C-in is needed for 120C out. You can feed 
in colder water and get sub-boiling water out. The leaked operating 
manual are clearer on this.

Re: [Vo]:no evidence yet of safety certificate.