Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19640013292_1964013292.pdf This reference will give a comparison of hydrogen absorption between many pure metals. http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/5277693-O8OUBl/native/5277693.pdf From the reference www.princeton.edu/mae/people/faculty/carter/ecdocs/EAC-223.pdf It states: Large energy barriers for absorption and an endothermic dissolution energy suggest that the H concentration in perfect bulk W will be low. On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Tungsten is interesting stuff when used in cold fusion. Hydrogen does not migrate or penetrate into it so many of the Brillouin and WL theories are difficult to support when a tungsten lattice is used in cold fusion, Interesting detail. Can you give a little bit of the backstory or a reference or two? From the links I'm seeing, it looks like hydrogen will dissociate on the surface of tungsten. I have not found anything about migration or penetration yet. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Tungsten is interesting stuff when used in cold fusion. Hydrogen does not migrate or penetrate into it so many of the Brillouin and WL theories are difficult to support when a tungsten lattice is used in cold fusion, It also has a high melting point so very high temperatures can be produced before the nano-powder is destroyed. On another note, I would like to see the water and potassium carbide replaced in the high school reactor with lithium hydride as the hydrogen carrier. If such a “mud” of tungsten nano-powder and liquid LiH can be pressurized to 30 bars very high temperature (1200C to 1500C) reaction might be produced. Such high heat can efficiently power a hot CO2 turbine at and efficiency of 60%. We will then enter the realm of industrial quality process heat production. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-04-25 20:31, Axil Axil wrote: One of the criticisms of this high school experiment will come frome and will be based on the formation of various oxides of tungsten. The formation of these oxides will produce excess heat in the range from 130 to 220 Kcal/mol. This chemically derived source of heat should be eliminated by removing oxygen from the experiment. This change will get the high school experiment closer to what Rossi has done. Tungsten heat of oxidation Info can be found at http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/**GetTRDoc?AD=AD0269773http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0269773 On 22passi, Passerini is gathering technical suggestions for Ugo Abundo from the L.Pirelli high school and a few resident engineers (one of them is even a friend of Sergio Focardi) in order to perform robust testing and take out any possible room for criticism. You could try posting this there, even in English, it will certainly help them. Here: http://22passi.blogspot.it/**2012/04/spazio-riservato-ai-** test-dellathanor.htmlhttp://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/spazio-riservato-ai-test-dellathanor.html (be warned that there's comment moderation enabled, messages don't appear right away in the blog post). Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
It is not clear why tungsten would be a useful material to use in LENR applications. The fact that it does not absorb hydrogen isotopes well seems to suggest that any effects observed would necessarily be surface processes. Is there much information supporting the case that tungsten works for LENR? If it does, I wonder if the fact that it has several relatively long lived isomers is related. Perhaps more effort needs to be expended in determining whether or not this material actually is useful in LENR. This might shed a lot of light upon the need for surface cracks or other defects to form the NAEs that allow LENR. Also, if tungsten works, then it might suggest that most other heavy metals would work as well. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Apr 26, 2012 4:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project Tungsten is interesting stuff when used in cold fusion. Hydrogen does not migrate or penetrate into it so many of the Brillouin and WL theories are difficult to support when a tungsten lattice is used in cold fusion, It also has a high melting point so very high temperatures can be produced before the nano-powder is destroyed. On another note, I would like to see the water and potassium carbide replaced in the high school reactor with lithium hydride as the hydrogen carrier. If such a “mud” of tungsten nano-powder and liquid LiH can be pressurized to 30 bars very high temperature (1200C to 1500C) reaction might be produced. Such high heat can efficiently power a hot CO2 turbine at and efficiency of 60%. We will then enter the realm of industrial quality process heat production. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-04-25 20:31, Axil Axil wrote: One of the criticisms of this high school experiment will come frome and will be based on the formation of various oxides of tungsten. The formation of these oxides will produce excess heat in the range from 130 to 220 Kcal/mol. This chemically derived source of heat should be eliminated by removing oxygen from the experiment. This change will get the high school experiment closer to what Rossi has done. Tungsten heat of oxidation Info can be found at http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0269773 On 22passi, Passerini is gathering technical suggestions for Ugo Abundo from the L.Pirelli high school and a few resident engineers (one of them is even a friend of Sergio Focardi) in order to perform robust testing and take out any possible room for criticism. You could try posting this there, even in English, it will certainly help them. Here: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/spazio-riservato-ai-test-dellathanor.html (be warned that there's comment moderation enabled, messages don't appear right away in the blog post). Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Is there much information supporting the case that tungsten works for LENR? If it does, I wonder if the fact that it has several relatively long lived isomers is related. Do a search for tungsten in the LENR-CANR Google custom search box (at the top of the page) and you find quite a number of papers. The main proof that it produces excess heat is from the work of Ohmori with glow discharge. This was later replicated by Mizuno, and then by various others. I described it briefly here. See the papers and photos I linked to. There is no particular reason to think this effect has anything to do with Pd/D or even nanoparticle Ni/H cold fusion. The only reason I can think of is McKubre's conservation of miracles principle. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Tungsten is interesting stuff when used in cold fusion. Hydrogen does not migrate or penetrate into it so many of the Brillouin and WL theories are difficult to support when a tungsten lattice is used in cold fusion, Interesting detail. Can you give a little bit of the backstory or a reference or two? From the links I'm seeing, it looks like hydrogen will dissociate on the surface of tungsten. I have not found anything about migration or penetration yet. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
consistent with the Rossi Reaction LOL - you must be kidding. Potassium carbonate in this experiment indicates that this is a Thermacore/Mills' reaction. A reactor almost identical to this was patented by Thermacore 19 years ago. On closer inspection, there is little unique here other than the borosilicate (if it is important) and the tungsten electrode. In fact, Thermacore reported both higher COP and a reactor that operated gainfully for over a year - and they used nickel instead of tungsten so it is probably a better choice. Plus, Thermacore received a broad and generic patent which is not limited to lower voltage regimes and covers any kind of electrolysis. USPTO - 5,273,635 December 28, 1993. Now expired but cannot be re-patented. From: Axil Axil If this high school reaction is consistent with the Rossi Reaction; a proton based reaction, I suspect that Rhenium is the mainline transmutation product. Since potassium is the not so secret sauce in this high school reaction, it lends credence to the speculation that potassium is also the secret sauce in the Rossi reaction.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
One of the criticisms of this high school experiment will come frome and will be based on the formation of various oxides of tungsten. The formation of these oxides will produce excess heat in the range from 130 to 220 Kcal/mol. This chemically derived source of heat should be eliminated by removing oxygen from the experiment. This change will get the high school experiment closer to what Rossi has done. Tungsten heat of oxidation Info can be found at http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0269773 page 12 and 13 On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: “consistent with the Rossi Reaction” LOL – you must be kidding. ** ** Potassium carbonate in this experiment indicates that this is a Thermacore/Mills’ reaction. ** ** A reactor almost identical to this was patented by Thermacore 19 years ago. On closer inspection, there is little unique here other than the borosilicate (if it is important) and the tungsten electrode. In fact, Thermacore reported both higher COP and a reactor that operated gainfully for over a year - and they used nickel instead of tungsten so it is probably a better choice. Plus, Thermacore received a broad and generic patent which is not limited to lower voltage regimes and covers any kind of electrolysis. ** ** USPTO - 5,273,635 December 28, 1993. Now expired but cannot be re-patented. ** ** *From:* Axil Axil ** ** ** ** If this high school reaction is consistent with the Rossi Reaction; a proton based reaction, I suspect that Rhenium is the mainline transmutation product. Since potassium is the not so secret sauce in this high school reaction, it lends credence to the speculation that potassium is also the secret sauce in the Rossi reaction. ** **
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On 2012-04-25 20:31, Axil Axil wrote: One of the criticisms of this high school experiment will come frome and will be based on the formation of various oxides of tungsten. The formation of these oxides will produce excess heat in the range from 130 to 220 Kcal/mol. This chemically derived source of heat should be eliminated by removing oxygen from the experiment. This change will get the high school experiment closer to what Rossi has done. Tungsten heat of oxidation Info can be found at http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD0269773 On 22passi, Passerini is gathering technical suggestions for Ugo Abundo from the L.Pirelli high school and a few resident engineers (one of them is even a friend of Sergio Focardi) in order to perform robust testing and take out any possible room for criticism. You could try posting this there, even in English, it will certainly help them. Here: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/spazio-riservato-ai-test-dellathanor.html (be warned that there's comment moderation enabled, messages don't appear right away in the blog post). Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
If this high school reaction is consistent with the Rossi Reaction; a proton based reaction, I suspect that Rhenium is the mainline transmutation product. Since potassium is the not so secret sauce in this high school reaction, it lends credence to the speculation that potassium is also the secret sauce in the Rossi reaction. On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This is definitely an Ohmori-Mizuno style glow discharge experiment. I heard from one of the authors. It employs confined free powders of tungsten in a reaction chamber by natural convection with a plasma between the powder and an anode jacketed by a porous sintered borosilicate glass filter. The problem with the O-M experiment was that it was unstable, short-lived, and it caused a large explosion. This technique probably fixes the first two problems. I don't know about the third. When I observed the tests, Mizuno could make the effect turn on for ~5 minutes at most. The heat eroded the cathode in about 15 minutes. It was broken up into black dust at the bottom of the cell. So, the effect appeared to be real, but it was of no practical use. See: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=187#PhotosTMizuno I assume the black color of the dust meant the particles were of small dimensions. I do not think it could be tarnished in a 15-minute experiment. Once the metal was broken up and it fell to the bottom and there was no way to use it in a circuit. That is to say, it was nothing like a fluidized bed. This new technique starts off with powder and uses it in a fluidized bed. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: Anyway, in short, several teachers (with of course valid degrees and expertise in several areas relevant to this kind of experiment) from the Leopoldo Pirelli industrial high school in Rome with the involvement of some of their students, replicated a Mizuno-type electrolytic CF cell with some modifications . . . A Mizuno electrolytic cell with powder? Not sure what that means. Do you mean the gas loaded cell? An Arata cell perhaps? . . . of which a patent application was filed by the name of the school, so it is essentially public and open source. I look forward to seeing that. Details about power levels or the materials used haven't been provided yet (will be soon), but I personally don't expect anything more than milliwatt-range excess heat. I think that with powder, if you get any heat it is usually more than this. Still, that CF experiments have been replicated and presented in a high school environment, sounds incredible. There were some years ago in the U.S. The results were not definitive, but I really enjoyed meeting the kids. They were smart as can be. See: http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=187#HighSchoolStudents - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On 2012-04-23 15:25, Jed Rothwell wrote: A Mizuno electrolytic cell with powder? Not sure what that means. Do you mean the gas loaded cell? An Arata cell perhaps? It is not really clear yet as complete details haven't been provided yet. Here's an excerpt from the email to 22passi by the organizer of these experiments summarizing the setup, translated by me: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/fusione-fredda-scuola-la-studiano-e.html I'll mention that it's an electrolytic cell (Mizuno-, Iorio- type), with the fundamental difference that it uses free nanopowders, not treated and not fixed [to anything], which we managed to confine and turn on in a totally innovative fluidized bed reactor It's not 100% clear even in Italian, but it looks like it's an electrolytic cell using nanopowders. I believe there are some similarities with Brian Ahern's 2011 patent application: http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Amplification-energetic-reactions/WO2011123338A1.pdf [...] There were some years ago in the U.S. The results were not definitive, but I really enjoyed meeting the kids. They were smart as can be. See: http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=187#HighSchoolStudents Yes, I remember seeing those photos. I expect the same level of sophistication from the teachers and kids of the Leopoldo Pirelli high school. I hope to be positively proven wrong. Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
It is probably plasma electrolysis (aka glow discharge electrolysis) Here is Naudin's replication of Mizuno and Ohmori http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/html/cfrdatas.htm It would be interesting to know if the nanopowder was added to water as a colloid -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa Jed Rothwell wrote: A Mizuno electrolytic cell with powder? Not sure what that means. Do you mean the gas loaded cell? An Arata cell perhaps? It is not really clear yet as complete details haven't been provided yet. Here's an excerpt from the email to 22passi by the organizer of these experiments summarizing the setup, translated by me: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/fusione-fredda-scuola-la-studiano-e.html I'll mention that it's an electrolytic cell (Mizuno-, Iorio- type), with the fundamental difference that it uses free nanopowders, not treated and not fixed [to anything], which we managed to confine and turn on in a totally innovative fluidized bed reactor It's not 100% clear even in Italian, but it looks like it's an electrolytic cell using nanopowders. I believe there are some similarities with Brian Ahern's 2011 patent application: http://www.sumobrain.com/patents/wipo/Amplification-energetic-reactions/WO20 11123338A1.pdf [...] There were some years ago in the U.S. The results were not definitive, but I really enjoyed meeting the kids. They were smart as can be. See: http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=187#HighSchoolStudents Yes, I remember seeing those photos. I expect the same level of sophistication from the teachers and kids of the Leopoldo Pirelli high school. I hope to be positively proven wrong. Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
To recap the analysis (tired pun based on the Pirelli name) ... these school kids could get a lot of mileage out of a well-conceived experiment. As to the point that this cannot be both a fluidized bed reactor, if it is using gas supported nanopowder and at the same time be a true electrolysis cell (in the sense of splitting H2O) unless the supporting gas is steam or contains steam, that is incorrect. Technically a fluidized bed reactor can use a liquid as the support medium, instead of a gas. I have never seen a FBR that did not use a gas, but Wiki the expert says both types qualify. Therefore, any of the reactors shown on Naudin's old page would be both a fluidized bed reactor - and a plasma electrolysis cell - if - the cell contained a suspension of metal powder supported by water (the distinction being that the nanopowder itself is not soluble in water). That makes the most sense. Consequently, there is no problem in the description details- in calling this device both a FBR and a plasma electrolysis cell. In fact, it is a nice hybrid. This Italian replication of Mizuno may or may not be novel due to the nanopowder (if that is really what is the important detail) but it is interesting that they have done it when no one else thought of it (apparently) and it is fairly elegant, no? Naudin claims a significant gain of up to COP= ~2.5 without nano - so what is the improved gain with nano? BTW - at the time these Naudin experiments came out - 6-7 years ago, we assumed Naudin could be underestimating his real gain by not always including the recombination heat of split gases (he treated water loss as steam only). So his decent gain could be better than it seemed. This presents a strong case for the proposition that a much simpler type of unpressurized reactor with no need for tank hydrogen could be on the horizon - at least for some uses like hot water. Mizuno had two patent applications for the early work (if he did not abandon them) and one wonders if he or his patent attorney had the foresight back then to include the possibility of a colloid or suspension of nanopowder - in the original claim. Doubt it. If not, Ahern's claim is looking good for gas-phase, and the FBR version of the school kids could be wide open... -Original Message- From: Jones Beene It is probably plasma electrolysis (aka glow discharge electrolysis) Here is Naudin's replication of Mizuno and Ohmori http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/html/cfrdatas.htm It would be interesting to know if the nanopowder was added to water as a colloid -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/fusione-fredda-scuola-la-studiano-e.html I'll mention that it's an electrolytic cell (Mizuno-, Iorio- type), with the fundamental difference that it uses free nanopowders, not treated and not fixed [to anything], which we managed to confine and turn on in a totally innovative fluidized bed reactor attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
More information: http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/cold-fusion-in-italian-high-school/ This is linked to a slide show: http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/04/19/foto/il_reattore_costruito_dagli_studenti-33583028/1/ Auto-translate link: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Froma.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2012%2F04%2F19%2Ffoto%2Fil_reattore_costruito_dagli_studenti-33583028%2F1%2F - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
The slide show is nifty. It looks like professional grade equipment to me. I told John Dash about this. I expect he will be gratified. I hope these kids really have 400% excess heat, as claimed. It would be a laugh and a half if they succeed so spectacularly in an experiment that the DoE and so many others say is impossible. Even if they are making a mistake, I still think it is great that they are doing this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
I wrote: Details about power levels or the materials used haven't been provided yet (will be soon), but I personally don't expect anything more than milliwatt-range excess heat. I think that with powder, if you get any heat it is usually more than this. If it is 400% excess, as claimed, it has to be more than milliwatt-range excess heat. Look at the slides of the equipment, meters and power supplies. I do not think it is likely they are inputting ~100 mW and getting out ~400 mW. I doubt they could measure that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On 2012-04-23 20:38, Jed Rothwell wrote: If it is 400% excess, as claimed, it has to be more than milliwatt-range excess heat. Look at the slides of the equipment, meters and power supplies. I do not think it is likely they are inputting ~100 mW and getting out ~400 mW. I doubt they could measure that. I hope it is as you say. However, subtle wording details in the original letter sent to 22passi by eng. Ugo Abundo make it look like they don't have clear-cut experimental data, although this might just be my impression. I'm being ultra-cautious because given the exposure it's currently receiving (and will further receive), this story can potentially end up really bad for many people. I'll post more details here as soon as they will be disclosed, anyway. More detailed photos of the experimental set-up should come soon too. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: I hope it is as you say. However, subtle wording details in the original letter sent to 22passi by eng. Ugo Abundo make it look like they don't have clear-cut experimental data . . . It wouldn't surprise me if they don't. I'm being ultra-cautious because given the exposure it's currently receiving (and will further receive), this story can potentially end up really bad for many people. Hey, no big deal if they are wrong. They are just high school kids. Still, I am going to hold off putting this in a News Item at LENR-CANR.org. I will wait for more details. The News Items at LENR-CANR.org are way behind events and they only cover a small fraction of total events. Because I am lazy. I wonder if Krivit has covered this? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
As Akira already stated the wording is not very clear even for Italian speakers. I share same feelings as Akira on the success of further testing. I think the most important question, as always in this field, is about reproducibility, but Eng. Abundo, seems quite clear about this and says that if an experiment does not work they will help finding what is wrong with that setup. So they seem very confident. Abbiamo poi sfidato i detrattori ad eseguire loro le misurazioni, e noi controlliamo dove fanno gli errori, rendendoci disponibili persino a prestare immediatamente il nostro apparecchio ma conducendo le prove in nostra presenza (smaschereremmo persino un detrattore prestigiatore!). We then challenged detractors [skeptic] to make the measurements, we check where they make the mistakes, we are even available to lend the apparatus, but the tests must be made in front of us (we would even expose a magician detractor) The patent idea to protect further open source development with this setup is just wonderful. mic Il 23 aprile 2012 21:13, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com ha scritto: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: I hope it is as you say. However, subtle wording details in the original letter sent to 22passi by eng. Ugo Abundo make it look like they don't have clear-cut experimental data . . . It wouldn't surprise me if they don't. I'm being ultra-cautious because given the exposure it's currently receiving (and will further receive), this story can potentially end up really bad for many people. Hey, no big deal if they are wrong. They are just high school kids. Still, I am going to hold off putting this in a News Item at LENR-CANR.org. I will wait for more details. The News Items at LENR-CANR.org are way behind events and they only cover a small fraction of total events. Because I am lazy. I wonder if Krivit has covered this? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Michele Comitini wrote: The patent idea to protect further open source development with this setup is just wonderful. I agree! If this works it will send a strong message to Rossi that he should stop sitting around hatching one scheme after another. He should get serious, file patents, sell machines, and sign agreements with big companies. Rossi has a tremendous lead now, but it will not last forever. His position resembles that the Wright brothers in 1908. It took them 5 years to learn how to make effective airplanes (1900 - 1905). They thought it would take everyone else 5 years to catch up. They did not realize that their patent plus their example -- flying in front of huge crowds 100 m in the air for an hour more -- would spur their competition to work much faster than they did. RD that took them 5 years was replicated by others in 5 months. Their designs were soon made obsolete. I get a sense they dithered. They did not rush ahead the way their competition did. Their patent was upheld, so they made about a million bucks, which was a lot of money back then. People such as Lord Northcliffe (Alfred Harmsworth) said they could have made a lot more than that. Northcliff knew them well, and admired them. He was a savvy businessman and media mogul. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
I love this! It is a feel-good story. It is wonderful to see young people doing this. As I said, even if they turn out to be wrong . . . hey, no big deal, good job, keep trying. If anyone should be allowed to make an experimental error it is a high school kid. I hope the claims are confirmed soon. The mass media may lap it up. As they should! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
This is definitely an Ohmori-Mizuno style glow discharge experiment. I heard from one of the authors. It employs confined free powders of tungsten in a reaction chamber by natural convection with a plasma between the powder and an anode jacketed by a porous sintered borosilicate glass filter. The problem with the O-M experiment was that it was unstable, short-lived, and it caused a large explosion. This technique probably fixes the first two problems. I don't know about the third. When I observed the tests, Mizuno could make the effect turn on for ~5 minutes at most. The heat eroded the cathode in about 15 minutes. It was broken up into black dust at the bottom of the cell. So, the effect appeared to be real, but it was of no practical use. See: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=187#PhotosTMizuno I assume the black color of the dust meant the particles were of small dimensions. I do not think it could be tarnished in a 15-minute experiment. Once the metal was broken up and it fell to the bottom and there was no way to use it in a circuit. That is to say, it was nothing like a fluidized bed. This new technique starts off with powder and uses it in a fluidized bed. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On 2012-04-24 02:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: This is definitely an Ohmori-Mizuno style glow discharge experiment. I heard from one of the authors. [...] Do you mean directly from one of the authors from the L.Pirelli institute? That's great if yes, I guess we will have more reliable information sooner than expected. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: Do you mean directly from one of the authors from the L.Pirelli institute? Yup. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
On 2012-04-20 14:09, Ron Kita wrote: Greetings Vortex-L If you use a Google Chrome browser it will automatically translate this for you: http://www.greenme.it/informarsi/energie-rinnovabili/7458-fusione-fredda-e-cat-studenti It can be seen even in Italian that the Pirelli Foundation funded the research and a patent application was filed. Sorry for the late reply, I haven't seen this thread until a few minutes ago. That Pirelli Foundation founded this is only partially correct, to tell the truth. Although Pirelli *has* funded cold fusion experiment in the past, as far as I know this one started as an independent project. The Pirelli Foundation might have brought some help later on in this case. Anyway, in short, several teachers (with of course valid degrees and expertise in several areas relevant to this kind of experiment) from the Leopoldo Pirelli industrial high school in Rome with the involvement of some of their students, replicated a Mizuno-type electrolytic CF cell with some modifications, of which a patent application was filed by the name of the school, so it is essentially public and open source. More details, video and data will supposedly come up later, but the project organizer mentions a 400% excess heat in an email recently written to 22passi: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/fusione-fredda-scuola-la-studiano-e.html (please use Google translate) The cell reportedly uses nanopowders in free form, which kind of reminds me of Brian Ahern's patent. Details about power levels or the materials used haven't been provided yet (will be soon), but I personally don't expect anything more than milliwatt-range excess heat. Still, that CF experiments have been replicated and presented in a high school environment, sounds incredible. It is already getting the attention of local newspapers and it is expected, also with the potential involvement of 22passi, to generate more media reactions, hopefully to the benefit of LENR research and public awareness. Stay tuned, S.A.
[Vo]:Pirelli Foundation funds successful LENR Cold Fusion Project
Greetings Vortex-L If you use a Google Chrome browser it will automatically translate this for you: http://www.greenme.it/informarsi/energie-rinnovabili/7458-fusione-fredda-e-cat-studenti It can be seen even in Italian that the Pirelli Foundation funded the research and a patent application was filed. Respectfully, Ron Kita, Chiralex Doylestown PA
