Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-19 Thread mixent 
In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:33:41 -0800:
Hi Russ,
[snip]
>This explanation does not apply to the ‘moving particles’ that are clearly 
>involved which though mostly remaining and reacting within the solid state 
>matrix are also found as strange ‘particle emissions.’ 

The energy of the fusion reaction might be carried away by either a fast
electron, a fast proton or a fast Hydrino.
All three of these would be penetrating particles.
Also, if a whole Hydrino molecule fuses with a target nucleus, then the energy
release can be as much as 10-20 MeV, easily enough to produce a free neutron in
some cases. Or if the Hydrino is a Deuterino, then the proton may be retained by
the target nucleus, and the neutron expelled with the energy of the reaction.
Also, a fast Hydrino might have a similar capture cross section to a neutron.

In short, there are lots of possibilities.

Also, you didn't answer the lower or higher question below.

>A hydrino doesn’t bear the characteristics of a penetrating particle which 
>clearly said particles are, I don’t see hydrinos being both not captured and 
>captured when passing through various materials and especially I don’t see 
>hydrinos behaving with such materials in accordance with neutron capture cross 
>sections! 
>
> 
>
>From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:19 PM
>To: vortex-l
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear 
>spallation and resonance
>
> 
>
>Gamma mitigation might lie in how nuclear reactions occur inside a Bose 
>condinsate.
>
> 
>
>On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:11 PM, <mailto:mix...@bigpond.com> > wrote:
>
>In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:50:44 -0800:
>Hi Russ,
>[snip]
>>Mischugenons however unlike 'hydrinos' do produce irrefutable isotopic
>>shifts in recipient nuclei,
>
>During Hydrino fusion, two things can happen:-
>
>1) A proton fuses with the target nucleus, resulting in a change of element.
>
>or
>
>2) A proton & an electron fuse concurrently with the target nucleus resulting 
>in
>an isotope shift in the original element, since essentially they combine to
>create a new neutron. This is enhanced electron capture. Enhanced, because the
>electron is severely shrunken, making it much easier to capture than a normal
>atomic electron.
>
>>though the quantity of shifted isotopes is much
>>lower
>
>lower or higher?
>
>
>>than the apparent mischugenon flux as measured/inferred by the
>>resulting weak emissions! Perhaps a 'third' miracle is needed, oh shit, will
>>it ever all be revealed.
>>
>>-Original Message-----
>>From: mix...@bigpond.com <mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>  
>>[mailto:mix...@bigpond.com <mailto:mix...@bigpond.com> ]
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:36 PM
>>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
>>Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
>>spallation and resonance
>>
>>In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
>>Hi Russ,
>>[snip]
>>>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing
>>>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka
>>>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the
>>>lack of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps
>>>invoking quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said
>>>resonant conditioned mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like
>>>normal neutrons and be captured preferentially by nuclei according to
>>>their neutron capture cross-section resulting in only rather weak
>>>emissions. Such beasties would be revealed by the pattern of measurable
>>>though weak emissions increasing as they passed through thin foils of
>>>metals with increasing neutron capture cross sections, I can live with that
>>:) That's a neat experiment and result!
>>>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/
>>
>>Are you the "I" in this tale?
>>
>>As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as
>>small as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less
>>easily, and need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction
>>rate. When they merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be
>>carried by the accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the initial
>>particle was a Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular might
>>account for a considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of
>>magnitude).
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
> 
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
This explanation does not apply to the ‘moving particles’ that are clearly 
involved which though mostly remaining and reacting within the solid state 
matrix are also found as strange ‘particle emissions.’ A hydrino doesn’t bear 
the characteristics of a penetrating particle which clearly said particles are, 
I don’t see hydrinos being both not captured and captured when passing through 
various materials and especially I don’t see hydrinos behaving with such 
materials in accordance with neutron capture cross sections! 

 

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:19 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear 
spallation and resonance

 

Gamma mitigation might lie in how nuclear reactions occur inside a Bose 
condinsate.

 

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:11 PM, mailto:mix...@bigpond.com> > wrote:

In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:50:44 -0800:
Hi Russ,
[snip]
>Mischugenons however unlike 'hydrinos' do produce irrefutable isotopic
>shifts in recipient nuclei,

During Hydrino fusion, two things can happen:-

1) A proton fuses with the target nucleus, resulting in a change of element.

or

2) A proton & an electron fuse concurrently with the target nucleus resulting in
an isotope shift in the original element, since essentially they combine to
create a new neutron. This is enhanced electron capture. Enhanced, because the
electron is severely shrunken, making it much easier to capture than a normal
atomic electron.

>though the quantity of shifted isotopes is much
>lower

lower or higher?


>than the apparent mischugenon flux as measured/inferred by the
>resulting weak emissions! Perhaps a 'third' miracle is needed, oh shit, will
>it ever all be revealed.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mix...@bigpond.com <mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>  
>[mailto:mix...@bigpond.com <mailto:mix...@bigpond.com> ]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:36 PM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
>spallation and resonance
>
>In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
>Hi Russ,
>[snip]
>>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing
>>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka
>>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the
>>lack of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps
>>invoking quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said
>>resonant conditioned mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like
>>normal neutrons and be captured preferentially by nuclei according to
>>their neutron capture cross-section resulting in only rather weak
>>emissions. Such beasties would be revealed by the pattern of measurable
>>though weak emissions increasing as they passed through thin foils of
>>metals with increasing neutron capture cross sections, I can live with that
>:) That's a neat experiment and result!
>>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/
>
>Are you the "I" in this tale?
>
>As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as
>small as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less
>easily, and need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction
>rate. When they merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be
>carried by the accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the initial
>particle was a Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular might
>account for a considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of
>magnitude).
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Axil Axil 
Gamma mitigation might lie in how nuclear reactions occur inside a Bose
condinsate.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:11 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:50:44 -0800:
> Hi Russ,
> [snip]
> >Mischugenons however unlike 'hydrinos' do produce irrefutable isotopic
> >shifts in recipient nuclei,
>
> During Hydrino fusion, two things can happen:-
>
> 1) A proton fuses with the target nucleus, resulting in a change of
> element.
>
> or
>
> 2) A proton & an electron fuse concurrently with the target nucleus
> resulting in
> an isotope shift in the original element, since essentially they combine to
> create a new neutron. This is enhanced electron capture. Enhanced, because
> the
> electron is severely shrunken, making it much easier to capture than a
> normal
> atomic electron.
>
> >though the quantity of shifted isotopes is much
> >lower
>
> lower or higher?
>
> >than the apparent mischugenon flux as measured/inferred by the
> >resulting weak emissions! Perhaps a 'third' miracle is needed, oh shit,
> will
> >it ever all be revealed.
> >
> >-Original Message-----
> >From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:36 PM
> >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren -
> nuclear
> >spallation and resonance
> >
> >In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
> >Hi Russ,
> >[snip]
> >>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing
> >>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka
> >>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the
> >>lack of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps
> >>invoking quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said
> >>resonant conditioned mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like
> >>normal neutrons and be captured preferentially by nuclei according to
> >>their neutron capture cross-section resulting in only rather weak
> >>emissions. Such beasties would be revealed by the pattern of measurable
> >>though weak emissions increasing as they passed through thin foils of
> >>metals with increasing neutron capture cross sections, I can live with
> that
> >:) That's a neat experiment and result!
> >>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/
> >
> >Are you the "I" in this tale?
> >
> >As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as
> >small as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less
> >easily, and need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction
> >rate. When they merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be
> >carried by the accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the
> initial
> >particle was a Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular
> might
> >account for a considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of
> >magnitude).
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Robin van Spaandonk
> >
> >http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
> >
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread mixent 
In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:50:44 -0800:
Hi Russ,
[snip]
>Mischugenons however unlike 'hydrinos' do produce irrefutable isotopic
>shifts in recipient nuclei, 

During Hydrino fusion, two things can happen:-

1) A proton fuses with the target nucleus, resulting in a change of element.

or

2) A proton & an electron fuse concurrently with the target nucleus resulting in
an isotope shift in the original element, since essentially they combine to
create a new neutron. This is enhanced electron capture. Enhanced, because the
electron is severely shrunken, making it much easier to capture than a normal
atomic electron. 

>though the quantity of shifted isotopes is much
>lower 

lower or higher?

>than the apparent mischugenon flux as measured/inferred by the
>resulting weak emissions! Perhaps a 'third' miracle is needed, oh shit, will
>it ever all be revealed. 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:36 PM
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
>spallation and resonance
>
>In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
>Hi Russ,
>[snip]
>>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing 
>>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka 
>>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the 
>>lack of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps 
>>invoking quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said 
>>resonant conditioned mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like 
>>normal neutrons and be captured preferentially by nuclei according to 
>>their neutron capture cross-section resulting in only rather weak 
>>emissions. Such beasties would be revealed by the pattern of measurable 
>>though weak emissions increasing as they passed through thin foils of 
>>metals with increasing neutron capture cross sections, I can live with that
>:) That's a neat experiment and result!
>>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/
>
>Are you the "I" in this tale?
>
>As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as
>small as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less
>easily, and need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction
>rate. When they merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be
>carried by the accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the initial
>particle was a Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular might
>account for a considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of
>magnitude).
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
Mischugenons however unlike 'hydrinos' do produce irrefutable isotopic
shifts in recipient nuclei, though the quantity of shifted isotopes is much
lower than the apparent mischugenon flux as measured/inferred by the
resulting weak emissions! Perhaps a 'third' miracle is needed, oh shit, will
it ever all be revealed. 

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:36 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
spallation and resonance

In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
Hi Russ,
[snip]
>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing 
>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka 
>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the 
>lack of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps 
>invoking quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said 
>resonant conditioned mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like 
>normal neutrons and be captured preferentially by nuclei according to 
>their neutron capture cross-section resulting in only rather weak 
>emissions. Such beasties would be revealed by the pattern of measurable 
>though weak emissions increasing as they passed through thin foils of 
>metals with increasing neutron capture cross sections, I can live with that
:) That's a neat experiment and result!
>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/

Are you the "I" in this tale?

As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as
small as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less
easily, and need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction
rate. When they merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be
carried by the accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the initial
particle was a Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular might
account for a considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of
magnitude).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread mixent 
In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:53:41 -0800:
Hi Russ,
[snip]
>Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing
>reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka
>reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the lack
>of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps invoking
>quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said resonant conditioned
>mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like normal neutrons and be
>captured preferentially by nuclei according to their neutron capture
>cross-section resulting in only rather weak emissions. Such beasties would
>be revealed by the pattern of measurable though weak emissions increasing as
>they passed through thin foils of metals with increasing neutron capture
>cross sections, I can live with that :) That's a neat experiment and result!
>http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/ 

Are you the "I" in this tale?

As for "mischugenons" they sound a lot like well shrunken Hydrinos. Not as small
as neutrons, so they penetrate the electron shells of atoms less easily, and
need to tunnel into the target nucleus, reducing the reaction rate. When they
merge with a target nucleus, the resultant energy can be carried by the
accompanying electron, or by the other proton if the initial particle was a
Hydrino molecule. The latter possibility in particular might account for a
considerable reduction in emitted gammas (by many orders of magnitude).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
Agreed that is the second miracle required! But is there any standing
reported evidence for strange mishugenonistic neutron resonance, aka
reflected neutrons, that subsequently behave in a manner effecting the lack
of 'energetic gamma'-less absorbing of neutrons save perhaps invoking
quasi-dark matter-like behavior, nah... ;) Perhaps said resonant conditioned
mischugenon/neutrons would behave somewhat like normal neutrons and be
captured preferentially by nuclei according to their neutron capture
cross-section resulting in only rather weak emissions. Such beasties would
be revealed by the pattern of measurable though weak emissions increasing as
they passed through thin foils of metals with increasing neutron capture
cross sections, I can live with that :) That's a neat experiment and result!
http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2013/05/04/edward-teller/ 

l Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
spallation and resonance

In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 07:50:11 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>Indeed where is the neutron activation, lots of nuclei in the 
>neighborhood yet neither activation nor knock on's is very odd. One 
>miracle to a customer, getting neutrons out of nuclei is the 'one miracle'.

The second is absorbing neutrons without creating any gammas.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread mixent 
In reply to  Russ George's message of Wed, 18 Jan 2017 07:50:11 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>Indeed where is the neutron activation, lots of nuclei in the neighborhood
>yet neither activation nor knock on's is very odd. One miracle to a
>customer, getting neutrons out of nuclei is the 'one miracle'. 

The second is absorbing neutrons without creating any gammas.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
As for scientific theory and theoreticians Mark Twain said it best, "There is 
something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of 
conjecture out of such trifling investment of fact."

 

From: Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:51 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren 
– nuclear spallation and resonance

 

Hello George,

I am sure you are a more experienced guy in regards to LENR than I am. Probably 
a better sailor. If it only comes down to years I am rather close or just a 
tack ahead (67 years).

I am not drawing any conclusions, I just try to evaluate the circumstances. Not 
always do you need to find a . port, sometimes staying at sea is more 
advantageous.

I do think positive about indications and fair winds is better than no wind. 
Taking advantage of the wind is the crux. Unfortunately the predictions are 
very diverse. Now one can decide to be optimistic and I hope my optimistic 
conclusion is correct but if it is no wind than I just need to wait. Of course 
if it is a storm I have to ride t out.




Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

 

 

lenn...@thornros.com <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com> 
+1 916 436 1899

 

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and 
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

 

 

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Russ George mailto:russ.geo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Lennart, the old adage ‘any old port in a storm’ is simply not practical. We’ve 
been weathering the storm against cold fusion for nigh unto 30 years. We don’t 
need any old port/theory, some of us have chosen to just weather the storm and 
lumber on. 

 

How Long Have You Been a Sailor ?

 

All my bloomin' life. 

Me mother was a mermaid. 

Me father was King Neptune. 

I was born on the crest of a wave 

And rocked in the cradle of the deep. 

Seaweed and barnacles are me clothes, 

Every tooth in me head is a marlinspike,

The hair on me head is hemp, 

Every bone in me body's a spar, 

And when I spits, I spits tar. 

I'se hard, I is, I am, I are.

 

--- an Old Answer to an Old Question

 

From: Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com 
<mailto:lenn...@thornros.com> ] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:34 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear 
spallation and resonance

 

Hello Mats,

I think this is interesting. I understand the critic from Jones and Russ but at 
least it is a theory and it is based on the result of Lugano. Maybe it was not 
such a flawed demo just made so it has too many openings for critic. This also 
enhances the profile of Rossi. He has support from scientists with a lot too 
lose (prestige) if Rossi is a scam as has been indicated here. I cannot wait 
for the next report from Rossi and hopefully a up to date experimental report 
from Lundin / Lidgren. Sounds to me we are slowly progressing towaa realization 
of lenr, keeping essential business secrets until the last  minute before 
market.)Looks good.




Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

 

 

lenn...@thornros.com <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com> 
+1 916 436 1899  

 

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and 
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

 

 

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Mats Lewan mailto:m...@matslewan.se> > wrote:

The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog post:

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/

 

is now public here:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP 
<https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP>
 &NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP

 

Mats

www.animpossibleinvention.com <http://www.animpossibleinvention.com>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Mats Lewan 
I talked briefly with Lundin today.
He explained that he and Lidgren are not going ahead together for various 
reasons at the moment.
However, he’s convinced that the most likely explanation for excess heat is 
transmutation rather than fusion, and that transmutation involves spallation 
and capture of neutrons. The combination of these two, in a way that releases 
net energy, would be what is new with the model described in the patent.
He also said that he doesn’t really follow the field and what others have done, 
but he will continue on his own for some time ahead with more ideas on how to 
make the spallation-capture process work effectively. 
Clear experimental results within a not too distant future would be necessary 
for him to apply for research funding, and I had the impression that he hadn’t 
really achieved satisfactory results so far.

Mats
www.animpossibleinvention.com <http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/>
> On 18 Jan 2017, at 18:51, Lennart Thornros  wrote:
> 
> Hello George,
> I am sure you are a more experienced guy in regards to LENR than I am. 
> Probably a better sailor. If it only comes down to years I am rather close or 
> just a tack ahead (67 years).
> I am not drawing any conclusions, I just try to evaluate the circumstances. 
> Not always do you need to find a . port, sometimes staying at sea is more 
> advantageous.
> I do think positive about indications and fair winds is better than no wind. 
> Taking advantage of the wind is the crux. Unfortunately the predictions are 
> very diverse. Now one can decide to be optimistic and I hope my optimistic 
> conclusion is correct but if it is no wind than I just need to wait. Of 
> course if it is a storm I have to ride t out.
> 
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
> 
> 
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
> 
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and 
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Russ George  <mailto:russ.geo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Lennart, the old adage ‘any old port in a storm’ is simply not practical. 
> We’ve been weathering the storm against cold fusion for nigh unto 30 years. 
> We don’t need any old port/theory, some of us have chosen to just weather the 
> storm and lumber on.
> 
>   <>
> How Long Have You Been a Sailor ?
> 
>  
> 
> All my bloomin' life.
> 
> Me mother was a mermaid.
> 
> Me father was King Neptune.
> 
> I was born on the crest of a wave
> 
> And rocked in the cradle of the deep.
> 
> Seaweed and barnacles are me clothes,
> 
> Every tooth in me head is a marlinspike,
> 
> The hair on me head is hemp,
> 
> Every bone in me body's a spar,
> 
> And when I spits, I spits tar.
> 
> I'se hard, I is, I am, I are.
> 
>  
> 
> --- an Old Answer to an Old Question
> 
>  
> 
> From: Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com 
> <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com>] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:34 AM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear 
> spallation and resonance
> 
>  
> 
> Hello Mats,
> 
> I think this is interesting. I understand the critic from Jones and Russ but 
> at least it is a theory and it is based on the result of Lugano. Maybe it was 
> not such a flawed demo just made so it has too many openings for critic. This 
> also enhances the profile of Rossi. He has support from scientists with a lot 
> too lose (prestige) if Rossi is a scam as has been indicated here. I cannot 
> wait for the next report from Rossi and hopefully a up to date experimental 
> report from Lundin / Lidgren. Sounds to me we are slowly progressing towaa 
> realization of lenr, keeping essential business secrets until the last  
> minute before market.)Looks good.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> lenn...@thornros.com <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com>
> +1 916 436 1899 
>  
> 
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and 
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Mats Lewan  <mailto:m...@matslewan.se>> wrote:
> 
> The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog 
> post:
> 
> https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/
>  
> <https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/>
>  
> 
> is now public here:
> 
> https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP
>  
> <https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP>
>  
> 
> Mats
> 
> www.animpossibleinvention.com <http://www.animpossibleinvention.com/>
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Lennart Thornros 
Hello George,
I am sure you are a more experienced guy in regards to LENR than I am.
Probably a better sailor. If it only comes down to years I am rather close
or just a tack ahead (67 years).
I am not drawing any conclusions, I just try to evaluate the circumstances.
Not always do you need to find a . port, sometimes staying at sea is more
advantageous.
I do think positive about indications and fair winds is better than no
wind. Taking advantage of the wind is the crux. Unfortunately the
predictions are very diverse. Now one can decide to be optimistic and I
hope my optimistic conclusion is correct but if it is no wind than I just
need to wait. Of course if it is a storm I have to ride t out.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> Lennart, the old adage ‘any old port in a storm’ is simply not practical.
> We’ve been weathering the storm against cold fusion for nigh unto 30 years.
> We don’t need any old port/theory, some of us have chosen to just weather
> the storm and lumber on.
>
>
>
> How Long Have You Been a Sailor ?
>
>
>
> All my bloomin' life.
>
> Me mother was a mermaid.
>
> Me father was King Neptune.
>
> I was born on the crest of a wave
>
> And rocked in the cradle of the deep.
>
> Seaweed and barnacles are me clothes,
>
> Every tooth in me head is a marlinspike,
>
> The hair on me head is hemp,
>
> Every bone in me body's a spar,
>
> And when I spits, I spits tar.
>
> I'se hard, I is, I am, I are.
>
>
>
> --- an Old Answer to an Old Question
>
>
>
> *From:* Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:34 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear
> spallation and resonance
>
>
>
> Hello Mats,
>
> I think this is interesting. I understand the critic from Jones and Russ
> but at least it is a theory and it is based on the result of Lugano. Maybe
> it was not such a flawed demo just made so it has too many openings for
> critic. This also enhances the profile of Rossi. He has support from
> scientists with a lot too lose (prestige) if Rossi is a scam as has been
> indicated here. I cannot wait for the next report from Rossi and hopefully
> a up to date experimental report from Lundin / Lidgren. Sounds to me we are
> slowly progressing towaa realization of lenr, keeping essential business
> secrets until the last  minute before market.)Looks good.
>
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
>
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899 <(916)%20436-1899>
>
>
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Mats Lewan  wrote:
>
> The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog
> post:
>
> https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-
> scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/
>
>
>
> is now public here:
>
> https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=
> 3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP
>
>
>
> Mats
>
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
Lennart, the old adage ‘any old port in a storm’ is simply not practical. We’ve 
been weathering the storm against cold fusion for nigh unto 30 years. We don’t 
need any old port/theory, some of us have chosen to just weather the storm and 
lumber on. 

 

How Long Have You Been a Sailor ?

 

All my bloomin' life. 

Me mother was a mermaid. 

Me father was King Neptune. 

I was born on the crest of a wave 

And rocked in the cradle of the deep. 

Seaweed and barnacles are me clothes, 

Every tooth in me head is a marlinspike,

The hair on me head is hemp, 

Every bone in me body's a spar, 

And when I spits, I spits tar. 

I'se hard, I is, I am, I are.

 

--- an Old Answer to an Old Question

 

From: Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:34 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear 
spallation and resonance

 

Hello Mats,

I think this is interesting. I understand the critic from Jones and Russ but at 
least it is a theory and it is based on the result of Lugano. Maybe it was not 
such a flawed demo just made so it has too many openings for critic. This also 
enhances the profile of Rossi. He has support from scientists with a lot too 
lose (prestige) if Rossi is a scam as has been indicated here. I cannot wait 
for the next report from Rossi and hopefully a up to date experimental report 
from Lundin / Lidgren. Sounds to me we are slowly progressing towaa realization 
of lenr, keeping essential business secrets until the last  minute before 
market.)Looks good.




Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

 

 

lenn...@thornros.com <mailto:lenn...@thornros.com> 
+1 916 436 1899

 

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and 
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

 

 

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Mats Lewan mailto:m...@matslewan.se> > wrote:

The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog post:

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/

 

is now public here:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP 
<https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP>
 &NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP

 

Mats

www.animpossibleinvention.com <http://www.animpossibleinvention.com>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Alain Sepeda 
I don't understand the details on the ponderomotive force LENR theory, so
this is pure wishful thinking.

Maybe it can support some other theories which need a new way to make
nucleus interact.

I first think about Edmund Storms Hydroton theory.
The great problem with Hydroton and the Slow Fusion, it is that it requires
the nucleus to interact through long range (raping the coulomb barrier
would cause huge energetic screaming)...
can  ponderometoive force allows, in an insulated coherent quantum system,
the nucleus to interact, exchange nucleons?

Maybe WLS theory could exploit this new interaction...

Why not Takahashi TSC theory?

My feeling, is that theories today have to mix their ideas...
Ed recently cited hagelstein, Mulenberg...


2017-01-18 17:16 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield :

> Mats,
> Most interesting.  This sounds like one of the most plausible theories to
> me.
> I haven't looked at the figures yet but surely this must lean heavily on
> what Rossi has already done?
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
> On 1/18/2017 7:43 AM, Mats Lewan wrote:
>
> The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog
> post:
> https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-
> scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/
>
> is now public here:
> https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=
> 3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP
>
> Mats
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
>
>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Lennart Thornros 
Hello Mats,
I think this is interesting. I understand the critic from Jones and Russ
but at least it is a theory and it is based on the result of Lugano. Maybe
it was not such a flawed demo just made so it has too many openings for
critic. This also enhances the profile of Rossi. He has support from
scientists with a lot too lose (prestige) if Rossi is a scam as has been
indicated here. I cannot wait for the next report from Rossi and hopefully
a up to date experimental report from Lundin / Lidgren. Sounds to me we are
slowly progressing towaa realization of lenr, keeping essential business
secrets until the last  minute before market.)Looks good.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Mats Lewan  wrote:

> The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog
> post:
> https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-
> scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/
>
> is now public here:
> https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=
> 3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP
>
> Mats
> www.animpossibleinvention.com
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread a.ashfield 
Ooops, I thought I was replying to Mats,and didn't see it was a link 
from Vortex.
As Jones Beene points out it is lacking proof.  Perhaps the new 
experiment they talk about will provide it.
I thought it interesting that they forecast the production of light in 
view of what we have hear about the QuarkX

Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread a.ashfield 

Mats,
Most interesting.  This sounds like one of the most plausible theories 
to me.
I haven't looked at the figures yet but surely this must lean heavily on 
what Rossi has already done?


Adrian



On 1/18/2017 7:43 AM, Mats Lewan wrote:
The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this 
blog post:

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/

is now public here:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP

Mats
www.animpossibleinvention.com

[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Russ George 
Indeed where is the neutron activation, lots of nuclei in the neighborhood
yet neither activation nor knock on's is very odd. One miracle to a
customer, getting neutrons out of nuclei is the 'one miracle'. 

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:22 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren - nuclear
spallation and resonance

 

OK they have a patent application now - after almost two years - but where
is the experimental data?

When this was first announced in 2015, my comment then was the same then as
it is now:

"The theory looks a lot like a mashup of W-L cold neutrons and Hagelstein's 
neutron hopping, neither of which have a shread of physical evidence. The do

not show neutron activation which needs to be shown for any such theory to 
work. They accept the flawed Lugano report as accurate and apparently do not

have an accurate understanding of nuclear spallation."
 
In short - this looks like a rather weak effort to me - until they show
neutron activation. 
The patent disclosure seems essentially worthless as it stands now.
 
If and when a reproducible experiment demonstrates substantial neutron
activation of the reactor, then we have something to get excited about.



Mats Lewan wrote:



The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this blog
post: 

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-e
xplanation-break-through/

 

is now public here:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP
<https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=308
6323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP>
&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP

 

Mats

www.animpossibleinvention.com <http://www.animpossibleinvention.com>

Re: [Vo]:Patent application by Lundin & Lidgren – nuclear spallation and resonance

2017-01-18 Thread Jones Beene 
OK they have a patent application now - after almost two years - but 
where is the experimental data?


When this was first announced in 2015, my comment then was the same then 
as it is now:


"The theory looks a lot like a mashup of W-L cold neutrons and Hagelstein’s
neutron hopping, neither of which have a shread of physical evidence. The do
not show neutron activation which needs to be shown for any such theory to
work. They accept the flawed Lugano report as accurate and apparently do not
have an accurate understanding of nuclear spallation."

In short – this looks like a rather weak effort to me - until they show neutron 
activation.
The patent disclosure seems essentially worthless as it stands now.

If and when a reproducible experiment demonstrates substantial neutron 
activation of the reactor, then we have something to get excited about.



Mats Lewan wrote:
The LENR patent application by Lundin and Lidgren referenced in this 
blog post:

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/10/15/swedish-scientists-claim-lenr-explanation-break-through/

is now public here:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=3086323A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=&date=20161026&DB=&locale=en_EP

Mats
www.animpossibleinvention.com