[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
xvxv ZZzAssOc zz xxsex CT vacs cv Mv Sent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint! - Reply message - From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway? Date: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:10 pm Wow, Jed Rothwell has awakened from a quarter century of slumber. The Sleeper Has Finally Awakened. While you were asleep, Rossi has told us what he was doing all along, all we had to do is listen…yes with concentration and purpose but he has revealed all to those who would listen with attention and to take heed. Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. I told you before that you never had this faith and you never will have it. Without that faith, you will never invest in the work to look for the answers. You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you and the others …for what you are missing… your shoes nailed to the floor by LENR… because LENR+ is a thing of complex beauty that you will never know. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: There has been a lot of blather here along these lines: That is how LENR is. This is no science behind it, It is all trial and error. Now LENR+. is analogous to the first vacuum tube radios. There is a degree of science nad methodology behind it and LENR+ works well almost every time. Okay, so what is the difference between LENR and LENR+? Is LENR with Pd-D, and LENR+ Ni-H? Why don't you just call it that? Most people who tried to make Ni-H work got nothing. No heat, no results. So I do not understand why anyone claims it works well every time. Maybe it works for Rossi, but he is not telling anyone else how to do it, is he? So we should not call this LENR+. We should call it whatever Rossi is doing, assuming his results are what he and Levi et al. claim they are. That's not a generally applicable statement about any branch of LENR. It is a statement about Rossi. There was a time when Patterson had very promising results too, with high power density. Unfortunately, he did not tell anyone how to do it, and he took the secret to the grave. Rossi might do the same thing. Until he teaches, perhaps with a patent that is replicated, his discovery is not a new form of LENR in the broad sense of the word. It is a trade secret that at present no one else has any clue how to achieve. It may be that Defkalion has also achieved highly reliable Ni-H cold fusion. I wouldn't know; they have not published any data. The demonstration looked promising but it is not proof. To get proof, you have to have an independent team go on and wring the thing out for weeks. It takes weeks because you often encounter the kinds of problems that Levi et al. had, with the cell melting and so on. Plus the team may need to improve the instruments a couple of times, the way Levi did. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. Okay, so Arata was doing LENR+ 20 years ago. And Kitamura is doing it now. So why doesn't it work as well as Rossi's cells do? That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. If he has told us all this great stuff, why has no one been able to independently replicate him? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
I wrote: If he has told us all this great stuff, why has no one been able to independently replicate him? Specifically, why has Defkalion gone off an done it with what seems to be different method, which may or not be as good? Why haven't Levi and the others at U. Bologna replicated? People in the know who have worked with Rossi presumably know more than the general public, yet I have not heard of any replications. I do not think Rossi has revealed enough to replicate. He has been trying to keep it a trade secret. He often responds to questions by saying that is a secret. I do not understand why people here are under the impression that he has revealed everything, and the way is now open to LENR+. I do understand why anyone thinks there is a difference between LENR and LENR+. No one has defined it, except to say LENR+ means it works better. That is not actionable information. Usain Bolt runs faster than me. Does that make him a different species? HUMAN+ or perhaps RUNNER+? What exactly is in the plus sign? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Jed, Rossi has told us that not only is the process written down in detail but a few others now know it. Also, he claims his partner has constructed a working E-Cat without any involvement by him. So, like everything else with the E-Cat it all depends on whether he is telling the truth. I give him the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise.
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote: Rossi has told us that not only is the process written down in detail but a few others now know it. Yes. But he has not published the detailed description. Axil said, Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. It has not been revealed. Also, he claims his partner has constructed a working E-Cat without any involvement by him. Yes, I know. So, like everything else with the E-Cat it all depends on whether he is telling the truth. I give him the benefit of the doubt unless proven otherwise. So do I. However, I am saying that Axil is wrong. It was not all revealed. It is a trade secret. No one other than Rossi and his confidants know whether this is fundamentally different from LENR, or whether it is pretty much the same. They are the only ones who know what is in the magic plus sign, in LENR+. My guess is that there is nothing much. Just clean, absorbent nanoparticles. I base that guess on Mizuno's recent results. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
This is one of the worst (stupidest) answers I've read in a long time. /Sunil Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 23:10:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Wow, Jed Rothwell has awakened from a quarter century of slumber. The Sleeper Has Finally Awakened. While you were asleep, Rossi has told us what he was doing all along, all we had to do is listen…yes with concentration and purpose but he has revealed all to those who would listen with attention and to take heed. Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. I told you before that you never had this faith and you never will have it. Without that faith, you will never invest in the work to look for the answers. You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you and the others …for what you are missing… your shoes nailed to the floor by LENR… because LENR+ is a thing of complex beauty that you will never know.
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. That is common knowledge. Any textbook on catalysis says this. Mizuno, Biberian and many others told me this years ago. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. Lots of cold fusion cells work! You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. Cold fusion with Pd-D does produce helium. That is fact. I don't see how that chains anyone to anything. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don’t get it. You do not know the rules any more than I do! Probably less, since I have known for a long time that gas loading works better at high temperatures. Or, if you do know the rules, I suggest you spell them out. As Sunil Shah said, yours was a really stupid message. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
LOL. Welcome to an open and almost un-moderated forum, where bogosity is a daily purgative and self-appointed experts of all varieties can step-up on the soap box and remove all doubts about their incompetence. Fortunately, it doesn't get much worse than this. From: Sunil Shah This is one of the worst (stupidest) answers I've read in a long time. /Sunil _ From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Wow, Jed Rothwell has awakened from a quarter century of slumber. The Sleeper Has Finally Awakened. While you were asleep, Rossi has told us what he was doing all along, all we had to do is listen.yes with concentration and purpose but he has revealed all to those who would listen with attention and to take heed. Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. I told you before that you never had this faith and you never will have it. Without that faith, you will never invest in the work to look for the answers. You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don't get it. I feel sorry for you and the others .for what you are missing. your shoes nailed to the floor by LENR. because LENR+ is a thing of complex beauty that you will never know.
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Just a few days ago, I explain to you how nanowire on the surface of the micro-particles produces millions of volts from dipoles driven by a heated environment. Does Arata and Kitamura coat there particles with nanowire? Then you ask “So why doesn't it work as well as Rossi's cells do?” I referred you to the Nanoplasmonic paper and point you to the graphs and the experiments, but you never looked at them. “If he has told us all this great stuff, why has no one been able to independently replicate him?” “This is one of the worst (stupidest) answers I've read in a long time.” On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. Okay, so Arata was doing LENR+ 20 years ago. And Kitamura is doing it now. So why doesn't it work as well as Rossi's cells do? That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. If he has told us all this great stuff, why has no one been able to independently replicate him? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Do not confuse the situation with its description. It is not the description of the situation that is stupid; it is the underling situation that the description attempts to portray. If you disagree with this description, then you are part of the situation. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Sunil Shah s.u.n@hotmail.com wrote: This is one of the worst (stupidest) answers I've read in a long time. /Sunil -- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 23:10:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway? From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Wow, Jed Rothwell has awakened from a quarter century of slumber. The Sleeper Has Finally Awakened. While you were asleep, Rossi has told us what he was doing all along, all we had to do is listen…yes with concentration and purpose but he has revealed all to those who would listen with attention and to take heed. Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. I told you before that you never had this faith and you never will have it. Without that faith, you will never invest in the work to look for the answers. You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you and the others …for what you are missing… your shoes nailed to the floor by LENR… because LENR+ is a thing of complex beauty that you will never know.
RE: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Hehe, yeah. (And thanks for your support.) I've been reading for a couple of years, and things I see the least of are: - oops, I'm sorry, I probably misunderstood you - sure, I'll try to explain it to the best of my understanding, (and to fit your level) - it's quite ok if you didn't do much Physics, you might have good ideas all the same - it's quite ok if you didn't do the slightest bit of physics or engineering whatever, your ideas are interesting all the same, in fact it's probably ME who's wrong anyway Well, you get the picture. There are pleasant exceptions of course. It's all quite amusing : ) /Sunil From: jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway? Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:11:19 -0700 LOL. Welcome to an open and almost un-moderated forum, where bogosity is a daily purgative and self-appointed experts of all varieties can step-up on the soap box and remove all doubts about their incompetence. Fortunately, it doesn’t get much worse than this. From: Sunil Shah This is one of the worst (stupidest) answers I've read in a long time. /Sunil From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Wow, Jed Rothwell has ...
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Apple's version is iLENR Harry On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I wrote: If he has told us all this great stuff, why has no one been able to independently replicate him? Specifically, why has Defkalion gone off an done it with what seems to be different method, which may or not be as good? Why haven't Levi and the others at U. Bologna replicated? People in the know who have worked with Rossi presumably know more than the general public, yet I have not heard of any replications. I do not think Rossi has revealed enough to replicate. He has been trying to keep it a trade secret. He often responds to questions by saying that is a secret. I do not understand why people here are under the impression that he has revealed everything, and the way is now open to LENR+. I do understand why anyone thinks there is a difference between LENR and LENR+. No one has defined it, except to say LENR+ means it works better. That is not actionable information. Usain Bolt runs faster than me. Does that make him a different species? HUMAN+ or perhaps RUNNER+? What exactly is in the plus sign? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Until he teaches, perhaps with a patent that is replicated, his discovery is not a new form of LENR in the broad sense of the word. It is a trade secret that at present no one else has any clue how to achieve. This is pretty much the reality. Nothing exists until it's truly observed. Only the probability of it existing is there. We must collapse the wave function to find out the status of the eCat.
Re: [Vo]:What the heck is LENR+, anyway?
Wow, Jed Rothwell has awakened from a quarter century of slumber. The Sleeper Has Finally Awakened. While you were asleep, Rossi has told us what he was doing all along, all we had to do is listen…yes with concentration and purpose but he has revealed all to those who would listen with attention and to take heed. Piece by piece, clue by clue it was all revealed in little bits and pieces. LENR does not use micro and nanoparticles and LENR+ does. That is what Rossi first taught us, he told us to use small particles but not too small and he even gave us the right size. He told us to cover the micro particles with nanowire. There is also high pressure hydrogen involved. He told us to use a catalyst that was activated through heating in the hot hydrogen. And most importantly, he gave us faith that the thing he built would work. I told you before that you never had this faith and you never will have it. Without that faith, you will never invest in the work to look for the answers. You are chained to the past by the ghosts of pons and fleischmann, and by the production of helium in a cold fusion. I tried my best to teach you the rules behind it all but you just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you and the others …for what you are missing… your shoes nailed to the floor by LENR… because LENR+ is a thing of complex beauty that you will never know. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: There has been a lot of blather here along these lines: That is how LENR is. This is no science behind it, It is all trial and error. Now LENR+. is analogous to the first vacuum tube radios. There is a degree of science nad methodology behind it and LENR+ works well almost every time. Okay, so what is the difference between LENR and LENR+? Is LENR with Pd-D, and LENR+ Ni-H? Why don't you just call it that? Most people who tried to make Ni-H work got nothing. No heat, no results. So I do not understand why anyone claims it works well every time. Maybe it works for Rossi, but he is not telling anyone else how to do it, is he? So we should not call this LENR+. We should call it whatever Rossi is doing, assuming his results are what he and Levi et al. claim they are. That's not a generally applicable statement about any branch of LENR. It is a statement about Rossi. There was a time when Patterson had very promising results too, with high power density. Unfortunately, he did not tell anyone how to do it, and he took the secret to the grave. Rossi might do the same thing. Until he teaches, perhaps with a patent that is replicated, his discovery is not a new form of LENR in the broad sense of the word. It is a trade secret that at present no one else has any clue how to achieve. It may be that Defkalion has also achieved highly reliable Ni-H cold fusion. I wouldn't know; they have not published any data. The demonstration looked promising but it is not proof. To get proof, you have to have an independent team go on and wring the thing out for weeks. It takes weeks because you often encounter the kinds of problems that Levi et al. had, with the cell melting and so on. Plus the team may need to improve the instruments a couple of times, the way Levi did. - Jed
