[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
Hello Uffe On 13-Août-99, you wrote: I am quite sure, that it isn't very satifying having to write (or support) a program when people only complain. But trust me, Chris, there are a lot of people who are very happy with what Olli does to Voyager. BTW don't be too sad with people always complaining, they only want to make V3 become a better product after all. Regards / Salutations -- Jean-Yves Besserer Taskers =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ICQ 26022578 T R O G L A D I T E - S O F T W A R E IRCNET 'Dial' =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *#Taskers WebSite :#* http://www.trogsoft.freeserve.co.uk http://taskers.webjump.com DigitalD.UK.AfterNET.org: #trogsoft =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Sales of vapor products
Hi Willi, On 13-Aug-99, Willi Burkhardt Wrote About [voyager] Re: Sales of vapor products, In fact, the unstability of V was the reason why I didn't upgrade or register other vapor products up to now! I am currently in the state of "wait vor v3 and see if it is more stable" Mmmm, be fair though. Just because the beta of V³ is unstable (and its not /that/ unstable for a beta release, in all honesty, I can't see how you can apply the same to the rest of the Vapor suite. I currently own AmFTP, AmTalk(1|2), AmIRC(1|2|3), Voyager(1|NG|3), ContactManager, and NetInfo(1|2). I think thats all the Vapor software I've registered. Just because the first beta of Voyager1 was a bit unstable, it didn't stop me registering the rest :) Also bear in mind, that if you show your support by registering now, it shows Ollie that people are appreciative of his hard work (and the rest of the team of course), and that they are willing and waiting for the final release. It will get better, and it will become more stable. Unfortunately due to the low sales of the software, it could back fire and they decide to pack up and call it a day. I certainly hope they don't, its thanks to Vapor and iBrowse that I got on the net in the first place, and I'd hate to see it end due to low sales :(( IMO, if you can afford it (and I know not everyone can), show your support now and register or upgrade, especially if you use the software regularly. Best Regards, *Dave Fisher - Team AMIGA* -- *The DarkSide - http://welcome.to/the-darkside* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC : [Vader] Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] JSError.log
Hi there What should i do with the JSerror.log? should i send it to this list or send to O.Wagner? Sorry but they are some Errors of "www.Playstation.de" and "www.SWR3.de" I don't know if they Java or Javascript. BTW. Sorry about my english. ;-) bye... -- bye... Large (Peter Korten) Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Sales of vapor products
Are you saying that so far only 100 people have registered for AmIRC 3, then? 'Just over' 100, yes. I'll update my plan about this in the future, but, for example, there are many more NetConnect pirates than real users. The cracking group cracked our online registration wizard so we receive an email (fake) 'registration' from every pirate user...but all it shows us is just /how many/ people /are/ pirating it. When NC 2 first came out, for every 'real' registration we had about 5 pirate regs. This has come down now of course, but there are still a few more pirate than real :( You also know that someone posted '100 STFax serial codes' onto a public (c.s.a.misc) Italian newsgroup, twice? Chris. Active Technologies - Chris Wiles [Managing Director] http://www.active-net.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1325 460116 [9-6 Mon-Fri, 10-5 Sat] Fax: +44 (0)1325 460117 Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
BTW don't be too sad with people always complaining, they only want to make V3 become a better product after all. Sure, but when it seems like that's all people do do, it gets you down. I was quite excited about posting that 'tables are now 4x faster' post, as I thought people would celebrate: you know the results :) Chris. Active Technologies - Chris Wiles [Managing Director] http://www.active-net.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1325 460116 [9-6 Mon-Fri, 10-5 Sat] Fax: +44 (0)1325 460117 Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
As for 'a week', it's actually 13 months since the last update. (v2.96) Yes but Don: 1. Olli was busy with his apartment and getting married end of 1998 - he built his own apartment, really! So little (none?) V coding was done until early 1999 onwards. Not that he didn't want to, just as he was quite busy with the new apartment and so on. 2. The 'tables not working' thing is very generically reported. For instance I'll admit I'm a major IE5 user at home, where I only use a notebook (running UAE and stuff), due to lack of space. I surf quite a few sites. I then move back to V in the office and am a) amazed how fast it is on my 060, compared to my 333Mhz notebook (when the 060 is /much/ slower CPU wise) and b) that most sites are the same or very very similar to IE 5 layout. The only site that I noticed was 'different' from IE 5 was the http://www.ford.co.uk web site. 3. Olli has been very very busy since early 99 on the JS DOM - this DOM (Document Object Model) needs to be created /before/ you can add JS support. The DOM is 'full working', with the JS fixes being in the interpretor, that sits on top of this DOM. AFAIK it took Olli a few months to finish the DOM. I'm truly quite happy with V 3, even compared to IE 5. The two things I want are more JS fixes in the interpretor and Java support, if Daytona or Merapi are ever released. There are other things to do too, of course, but the way some people describe the way Voyager 3 handles tables (etc) is like every single table site looks different to IE 5, which is false. Again, if you find sites that *genuinely* look different to IE 5 (or perhaps NS), NOT compared to IBrowse (as this doesn't even support table widths at all in v1.x, so using this as your tables comparison would be wrong to do so), then tell us :) We will look at them, really. It won't be done in time for pre-release 2, but things will be done :) Chris. Active Technologies - Chris Wiles [Managing Director] http://www.active-net.co.uk Tel: +44 (0)1325 460116 [9-6 Mon-Fri, 10-5 Sat] Fax: +44 (0)1325 460117 Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[amiga-talk] Re: Sales of vapor products
In a message of 13-Aug-99 Rasmus Pedersen wrote: Whats there to be entranced about? The AmigaNG its not gonna be more than a "hitech" Linuxbox. Why even bother getting a AmigaNG when it comes, when you can go buy a lowcost PC with the same processing power and run linux on it. Well, as I understand it, it will not be Linux as we understand it today. But I agree, I also find it hard to be exactly entranced about it. Currently we know very little about the new Amiga, and until we know more I really don't find it appropriate to make a judgement. When the Amiga MMC and the Amiga OE is realeased I will see what it offer and then judge it. A better choise would probally be the "clone" Phase5/QNX are working on. At least ppl have a choise to run the QNX software on the current PPC cards, not rendering our old miggy's totaly obsolete! (for those ppl who cant afford to upgrade to a new computer.) Well, I haven't spend a furtune on a PPC cards, so I actually think the best choice for people like me is to buy a low-cost PC and run RedHat. And I personally don't give much for what P5 offers. What do they really offer? Will the computer have any momentum? As I judge it, it will be an even smaller platform than the current Amiga platform, and I certainly don't find that to be a viable platform. Considering what P5's PPC cards cost, it will probably be cheaper for me to buy the Amiga MMC rather than upgrading my current Amiga to PPC. Furthermore, having chosen the Amiga MMC, I will have a platform that hopefully will be a lot better supported than I expect the Phase5/QNX platform will be. Let's move this discussion to Amiga-Talk - it is kind of off-topic here. Uffe Holst __ Amiga-Talk Mailing List - Archive: http://www.mailarchive.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
In a message of 14-Aug-99 Jean-Yves Besserer wrote: I am quite sure, that it isn't very satifying having to write (or support) a program when people only complain. But trust me, Chris, there are a lot of people who are very happy with what Olli does to Voyager. BTW don't be too sad with people always complaining, they only want to make V3 become a better product after all. Absolutely, but as a programmer I wouldn't find it very incentive to continue. And Chris is absolutely right. Whenever a new great feature or improvement is announced it often only leads to "yes, but..." Uffe Holst Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Sales of vapor products
In a message of 14-Aug-99 Dave Fisher wrote: Unfortunately due to the low sales of the software, it could back fire and they decide to pack up and call it a day. I certainly hope they don't, its thanks to Vapor and iBrowse that I got on the net in the first place, and I'd hate to see it end due to low sales :(( As end-users we should really care a lot about the few programmers we have left. Being such a small platform as ours is, makes it even more necessary for more to register. Too bad so many are using pirated software. IMO, if you can afford it (and I know not everyone can), show your support now and register or upgrade, especially if you use the software regularly. Everybody can afford it. It is a question of setting your priorities right. Amiga software products are often very cheap, so you really have to save very little to get the necessary money. As I a long time a go pointed out to someone in a FidoNet echo area, when he claimed he couldn't afford software registrations, then he probably spent three times as much as the average shareware program costs every single month just to go out and get drunk. It is only a question of priorities, and unfortunately a lot gives software registration a very low priority - in my opinion to a large degree because they already use the software in a pirated or cracked form. There are so many ways in which you very fast can get the few pounds, dollars or whatever you need. Drink a few less beers, when you are out, or a few less music CD's, or water instead of Coca-Cola, etc. etc. Uffe Holst Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
On 14-Aug-99, Chris Wiles wrote: 1. Olli was busy with his apartment and getting married end of 1998 - he built his own apartment, really! So little (none?) V coding was done until early 1999 onwards. Not that he didn't want to, just as he was quite busy with the new apartment and so on. We will look at them, really. It won't be done in time for pre-release 2, but things will be done :) Of course Olli is a great hero. We all know that. He is doing single-handed (or almost) what M$ do with a team of a hundred. Of course it is a good thing that the table handling will now be as fast as in other browsers (maybe faster). I'm looking forward to seeing it. I guess it will take a few months to get all the JS bugs/problems sorted, but we are on the way. The only other tables site that particularly seems to mess up is Deja.com (where you get to view Jim Collas' posts). The posts spread across outside the window and there is over-writing. Probably if that and the other ones reported are looked at, that will sort most of the table parsing issues. They are not really bugs, more decisions as to how to handle particular variants of table code. I notice V doesn't seem to like it if all the columns have an exactly specified width. It works best if the last one is * For me, the major limitation of V now that JS is here and Java on its way (eventually) is not being able to print a page at full quality on my PostScript laser printer. For instance, if I want to print out the Neutrino docs, I will have to go into work and do it on Netscape/IE. I realise that good printing will require the user to specify outline fonts as well as bitmaps for display. The new version of the PDF viewer APDF does this, and it works quite well - worth looking at to see how to do it. Regards -- Don Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
In a message of 13-Aug-99 Chris Wiles wrote: List them please.. They can't be 'fixed' if you don't list them. I just found this one http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/99/134784.html AWeb-II manages nice to limit the page width to the available 800, whereas V³ needs a lot more room. Uffe Holst Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
In a message of 14-Aug-99 Don Cox wrote: Of course Olli is a great hero. We all know that. He is doing single-handed (or almost) what M$ do with a team of a hundred. And he is doing it remarkably better :) For me, the major limitation of V now that JS is here and Java on its way (eventually) is not being able to print a page at full quality on my PostScript laser printer. For instance, if I want to print out the Neutrino docs, I will have to go into work and do it on Netscape/IE. I have used Netscape at school on HP and SGI workstations, and I have printed webpages from Netscape with a very good result. On the other hand, using MSIE under Windows (and I am almost 100 percent certain this also applies to Netscape under Windows) doesn't lead (in my opinion) to a result that is even close to what I have experienced with Netscape on the HP/SGI workstations. Why is that? And yes, I know it is even worse on the Amiga. I realise that good printing will require the user to specify outline fonts as well as bitmaps for display. The new version of the PDF viewer APDF does this, and it works quite well - worth looking at to see how to do it. I have used XPDF a couple of times and have exported it from there as PostScript. It seems to work quite well when I copy it to the printer afterwards. Uffe Holst Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
Hi Chris I noticed you were discussing [voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?] so I decided to reply thus: As Olli also have said earlier, then the big problem with respect to HTML is, that even if the HTML code sucks big time, then it is accepted fully if NS and MSIE display it correctly. A bit sad, but NS and MSIE sort of set the defacto standard for what how badly you can write HTML. Exactly! Olli did a piece on this once. ie. that people just say 'well it looks right in NS..' when it's know by the people in the know that NS /doesn't/ display all HTML (especially tables!) correctly. What is 'correct HTML' is *not* 'what displays correctly in NS', as an example. What I'll do is run it through a validator, if it's all Aok then I'll stick "if this looks crap complain to the maker of your browser as W3C say it's fine :P" ;) Regards Paul -- *ICQ:* 22285352 | *Pressure on ARCNet* | Connected Via *WireNet* Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: [Re: Sales of vapor products]
IMO, if you can afford it (and I know not everyone can), show your support now and register or upgrade, especially if you use the software regularly. Hrm.. The only part of Vapor's suite I use regularly is VoyagerNG, which I _have_ registered. As soon as the upgrade thingie goes through for V³ I'll upgrade. But, as a lot of others have already said, not many can afford to register/upgrade everything, especially if they don't use it regularly. I've been spending quite a lot of money on my Amiga recently (BlizzPPC, BVision, CyberGraphX 4, DOpus Magellan 2, even a 19" monitor!), and I can't afford buying everything I would like to. And I really _would_ like to spend some more money on software, but I guess you have to make priorities. :) /Brian Riis Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: [Re: Sales of vapor products]
IMO, if you can afford it (and I know not everyone can), show your support now and register or upgrade, especially if you use the software regularly. Hrm.. The only part of Vapor's suite I use regularly is VoyagerNG, which I _have_ registered. As soon as the upgrade thingie goes through for V³ I'll upgrade. But, as a lot of others have already said, not many can afford to register/upgrade everything, especially if they don't use it regularly. I've been spending quite a lot of money on my Amiga recently (BlizzPPC, BVision, CyberGraphX 4, DOpus Magellan 2, even a 19" monitor!), and I can't afford buying everything I would like to. And I really _would_ like to spend some more money on software, but I guess you have to make priorities. :) /Brian Riis Well...it's a question of balance really. It's fine having all the hardware but what can you do without software ?? Neglecting the software companies, isn't going to work. I spend about $100+ a year on pure software. That may not bee a lot but it's more than most people. I don't buy expensive packages, in general. Netconnect was an exception but it was 11 programs in one and was a steal. I just ordered OS3.5 and 3.1 roms and the pcx/fusion combo from software hut. All software ??? Wwell the roms, but I also ordered the Ariadne 2 and bought a used Piccolo so I now have 800x600x16-bit (it does go higher) and voyager looks great. Again...it's a question of balance. As for sending money to some of the shareware authors. I find that if I contact them by e-mail, most will have a pizza hut or whatever locally. I can do a credit card order and they can pick it up when they want. Protects me and protects them :) Regards...Martin Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Blazing table speeds [was Re: Re: Best settings for V3?]
On 13-Aug-99, Chris Wiles wrote: Not any more! :) It takes a lot of effort to please me...but Olli has done it. The latest Voyager 3 beta is about 4-5 faster at handling tables and forms within tables. I'm not kidding. Now when I've read all emails I can say, cool, this is the most annoying thing, the speed of tables, and now it's fast. YEAH! :) Another thing: I want this to be a Voyager ml, not an AmigaNG-thoughts ml. I really hate the off topic mails :( One other thing which can be annoying in Voyager, is the frames part. This is probably because of the HTML code, but on some frames there isn't any scrollbars, even if the frame is too small for the content, so one have to click-in-the-frame-and-drag-around. Cheers, Voyager rocks! :) -- |Fredrik "McDrill" Söderberg |http://hem.passagen.se/mcdrill/ |"Life sucks, you can't live with it and you can't live without it" Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
[voyager] Re: Sales of vapor products
Hello Chris; On 13-Aug-99, Chris Wiles wrote: One of the reason he states is that everyone seems to be waiting for the NG Amiga. I don't want to make this into a large-scale discussion, but I do 'blame' Collas and Amiga. They've put *so* much hype into this AmigaNG that 99% of discussions are AmigaNG related. Most people only seem interested in AmigaNG, the Collas monthly update and other AmigaNG related news releases :( I'm interested in lots more than the AmigaNG, but I do hope to find the excellent Vapor products transitioning to the new machine as well. I'd hate to be forced into using Netscape on the sucker. Worse, IMHO many people are acually now 'bored' with the current Amiga, which is why the market seems to be in a collective 'wait and see' situation. I'm not bored. I use mine every day. I plan to get a new one as soon as Randomize starts building the Odyssey G3 towers. I've wanted a back-up miggy for a long time, but I've wanted one even better than what I have now. That time seems to be approaching, first on the G3 side and then on the MCC side. I'm psyched! : -- Best; Steve Duff Team AMIGA QuikPak A4060T 82MB/1GB SCSI/4MB CV64-3D w/Scan Doubler Melody Z-2/4X SCSI CD-ROM/GVP I-O Extender "Every little breeze seems to whisper Louise" --Maurice Chevalier Voyager Mailing List - Info Archive: http://www.vapor.com/ For Listserver Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "HELP" To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "UNSUBSCRIBE"
