[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #87 from Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net --- CAPTCHA is now gone. Let's celebrate! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #86 from Greg Grossmeier g...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #84) Reedy will deploy the config change on Dec 31st (given it is New Year's Eve, I can't promise a specific time). See: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#Week_of_December_30 Just a quick update: To be safe, the change won't happen until Thursday the 2nd (the above link is still accurate). This is due to the 1st being a holiday (thus, not many people with access to fix brokenness will be online). We have a pretty firm policy of not deploying things on the day before people won't be working (ie: all Fridays, and days before holidays). I know this seems straightforward, but we don't want anything odd to happen with this change. Thanks for your understanding. (PS: also, when looking at the [[:wikitech:Deployments]] calendar, be sure to take note of the UTC/Pacific columns, as the regularly scheduled Lightning Deploy window at 4pm Pacific appears to be on the next day, due to that being 24:00/0:00 UTC. Timezones are fun.) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #85 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #84) (In reply to comment #83) Hello Tim, the deadline is approaching: are you the one in charge of doing this, or someone else? Hi Nemo, Thanks for the ping. Reedy will deploy the config change on Dec 31st (given it is New Year's Eve, I can't promise a specific time). See: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#Week_of_December_30 Thanks all. I was one of the most strongly opposed to this six months ago and I'm happy to declare that, although we have not done everything we could have done, we did the best we could knowing what would happen in advance. Thank you guys for giving us some space to work out our internal issues without loosing your own principles. This has reassured me that this is, in fact, a collaborative endeavour. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Greg Grossmeier g...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||g...@wikimedia.org --- Comment #84 from Greg Grossmeier g...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #83) Hello Tim, the deadline is approaching: are you the one in charge of doing this, or someone else? Hi Nemo, Thanks for the ping. Reedy will deploy the config change on Dec 31st (given it is New Year's Eve, I can't promise a specific time). See: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#Week_of_December_30 Thanks all. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #83 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #75) However, we will permanently disable the emergency CAPTCHA mode by December 31, 2013, if no decision to disable it sooner is reached by the community. Hello Tim, the deadline is approaching: are you the one in charge of doing this, or someone else? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=52247 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 bennylin bknl...@yahoo.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||bknl...@yahoo.com --- Comment #76 from bennylin bknl...@yahoo.com --- Another tool to consider: 1) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FlaggedRevs (used by pt.wikibooks, pt.wikisource, pt.wikinews), 2) Enable page creation only for confirmed users. Before taking those two measurements, our (id.wp) community was vandalized more than the patrollers could handle, and our community voted to disable anonymous editing. Of course it was swiftly rejected ([[Bug 20666]]) because violation of core principles. In the end, we had those two vandalism prevention system (FlaggedRevs [[Bug 24010]]+AbuseFilter), and vandalism was decreased. Too bad there were no study (numbers) on this yet AFAIK. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #77 from Helder mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- It will be a pitty not to have any way to know how many users will give up of their edits after they are asked to solve the CAPTCHA during this new emergency period... :-( -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #78 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- (In reply to comment #77) It will be a pity not to have any way to know how many users will give up of their edits after they are asked to solve the CAPTCHA during this new emergency period... :-( From https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt: --- 'wgDebugLogGroups' = array( 'default' = array( [...] 'captcha' = udp://$wmfUdp2logDest/captcha, --- Perhaps ptwiki should be special-cased for the next few months (i.e., write to its own log file)? Feel free to submit a changeset. :-) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #79 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #77) It will be a pitty not to have any way to know how many users will give up of their edits after they are asked to solve the CAPTCHA during this new emergency period... :-( Well, we sort of know already from the stats of these months, though July is still missing: it is about 30-50 thousands productive (not reverted) edits per month, so around 150-250 thousands edits sacrificed to this trial period, more or less like trashing half of an annual global Wiki Loves Monuments. https://pt.wikipedia.org/?oldid=36301585 By the way, I was told that the search for alternatives to the CAPTCHA was stuck, with several community members refusing to run a campaign to recruit vandal-fighters before the CAPTCHA is enabled. https://pt.wikipedia.org/?diff=36511892oldid=36329606 Is there any indication that this trial period with the editing activity killer enabled will actually be used to trial something and to find new solutions? I've not checked the local discussions in the last few days. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #80 from goethe.w...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #79) Well, we sort of know already from the stats of these months, though July is still missing: it is about 30-50 thousands productive (not reverted) edits per month, so around 150-250 thousands edits sacrificed to this trial period, more or less like trashing half of an annual global Wiki Loves Monuments. https://pt.wikipedia.org/?oldid=36301585 Right now, we don't know if those edits are not reverted because they are productive or if the community is overwhelmed, so I wouldn't make that conclusion just yet. By the way, I was told that the search for alternatives to the CAPTCHA was stuck, with several community members refusing to run a campaign to recruit vandal-fighters before the CAPTCHA is enabled. https://pt.wikipedia.org/?diff=36511892oldid=36329606 I don't think that is the case. Is there any indication that this trial period with the editing activity killer enabled will actually be used to trial something and to find new solutions? I've not checked the local discussions in the last few days. Work in the abuse filters is ongoing, and someone proposed to have a vote whether or not to prevent anonymous editors of writing new articles, but hopefully this will be cancelled soon. https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Vota%C3%A7%C3%B5es/Cria%C3%A7%C3%A3o_de_artigos_por_usu%C3%A1rios_an%C3%B4nimos. Other measures, like porting other tools to Portuguese will probably take longer to implement. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #81 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #80) Right now, we don't know if those edits are not reverted because they are productive or if the community is overwhelmed, so I wouldn't make that conclusion just yet. As far as I remember the unpatrolled edits stats don't show an increase in unreviewed edits, apart from being much better than in other big wikis like fr.wiki or it.wiki, so I doubt there are big portions of unreviewed vandalism. Of course this by itself doesn't mean that current antivandalism efforts are sustainable. Helder's question however was simpler than this I think, I don't think the CAPTCHA log proposal is about measuring the quality of those edits? He's right that we should have at least have some way to monitor the situation and the consequences of the trial before starting it, though... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #82 from Gerrit Notification Bot gerritad...@wikimedia.org --- Change 69982 merged by Tim Starling: Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/69982 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|PATCH_TO_REVIEW |RESOLVED CC||tstarl...@wikimedia.org Resolution|--- |FIXED -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #75 from Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org --- Dear Portuguese Wikipedia community. We've carefully reviewed the requested operations change to reinstate the emergency CAPTCHA on the Portuguese Wikipedia that forces all non-autoconfirmed users to complete a CAPTCHA for any edit. Our understanding is that there is significant concern among the Portuguese Wikipedia community about an increase in vandalism and low-quality edits. These edits cannot be properly monitored and reverted without the CAPTCHA being in place, at least temporarily. We are aware that a CAPTCHA in emergency mode configuration was set up in January 2008, when there was a crisis, and since then it has not been removed until this year. We know there has been a lot of discussion lately about the use of a CAPTCHA, and the recent changes made by the MediaWiki community were controversial among the Portuguese Wikipedia community. Hence, we've carefully taken all perspectives into consideration. We believe that a CAPTCHA implemented in this way is a very poor tool for managing vandalism or spam. The CAPTCHA presents a barrier to new contributors and lowers all edit rates both good and bad, which is the antithesis of our mission. The Wikimedia CAPTCHA is poorly readable, uses an English language dictionary, and does not work for users with impaired vision. There are better tools, such as the AbuseFilter, Spam Blacklist, and Twinkle, as well as various vandalism monitoring tools that could be ported to the Portuguese Wikipedia. With the exception of Portuguese Wikipedia, *all* other Wikimedia projects use the combination of these existing tools to deal with vandalism, spam, and low-quality edits. A CAPTCHA for non-autoconfirmed edits is not compatible with the Wikimedia movement's core values. Specifically, enabling every person on the planet to share in the sum of all knowledge. At the same time, we recognize that the Portuguese Wikipedia community has been deliberating over this issue for some time, and that a sudden change of configuration may not have offered you sufficient time to explore alternative solutions. We are aware you are working on the anti-vandalism project (http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/AntiVandalismo). Let us know if we can help with any type of support for that. To this end, we agree to re-enable the emergency CAPTCHA for non-autoconfirmed users. However, we will permanently disable the emergency CAPTCHA mode by December 31, 2013, if no decision to disable it sooner is reached by the community. In the meantime, we will continue to engage in dialog about alternatives. -- Erik Moeller, Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation -- (The Portuguese translation below was prepared by Oona Castro.) Prezada Comunidade da Wikipedia em português, Nós cuidadosamente avaliamos a solicitação de re-implantação do “CAPTCHA emergencial” na Wikipédia em Português, que força todos os usuários não autoconfirmados a preencherem o CAPTCHA para qualquer edição. Nosso entendimento é de que há grande preocupação da comunidade da Wikipédia em português em relação ao crescimento de vandalismo e edições de baixa qualidade - que não teriam como ser propriamente monitoradas e revertidas sem o CAPTCHA emergencial em operação, pelo menos temporariamente. Estamos cientes de que essa configuração do CAPTCHA estava ativa desde janeiro de 2008, quando houve uma crise e, desde então, nunca havia sido retirado, até a remoção em abril de 2013. Sabemos que houve muitas discussões recentemente sobre o uso do CAPTCHA e que a mudança feita pela comunidade do Mediawiki gerou controvérsias na comunidade da Wikipédia em português. Por isso, tivemos o cuidado de levar as diversas perspectivas e opiniões em consideração. Acreditamos que o CAPTCHA implementado desta forma é uma ferramenta pouco apropriada para gerenciar vandalismo ou SPAM, uma vez que representa uma barreira para novos editores e usá-la para reduzir o número de edições, boas ou ruins, é a antítese de nossa missão. O CAPTCHA da Wikimedia é quase ilegível, usa o inglês como dicionário e não funciona para deficientes visuais. Há ferramentas melhores, como o AbuseFilter, Twinckle, assim como diversas ferramentas de monitoramento de vandalismo que podem ser localizadas para a Wikipédia em Português. Com exceção da Wikipédia em português, *todos* os outros projetos Wikimedia usam a combinação dessas ferramentas para lidar com vandalismo, SPAM e edições inapropriadas ou de baixa qualidade. Um CAPTCHA para quais edições não autoconfirmadas não é compatível com os principais valores do movimento Wikimedia - em especial, permitir que todas as pessoas no mundo contribuam com o compartilhamento de todo o conhecimento do planeta. Ao mesmo tempo, reconhecemos que a comunidade da Wikipédia em Português vêm discutindo a questão por um bom tempo, e que uma mudança repentina na configuração possa não ter oferecido
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||patch-in-gerrit -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au changed: What|Removed |Added CC||at.li...@live.com.au --- Comment #72 from This, that and the other at.li...@live.com.au --- The Gerrit change 69982 is ready to be merged, so a temporary reinstatement of CAPTCHA is hopefully quite close. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #73 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- (In reply to comment #72) The Gerrit change #69982 is ready to be merged [...] Gerrit changeset 69982 is currently marked as a work in progress ([WIP] in the commit message). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #74 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #71) [...] not a *single alternative measure* has been implemented so far - or, should I note, perhaps we have now lots of inactive rollbackers recently promoted). [...] Just to mention one thing, this is actually not correct: pt.wiki community has managed to reverse the trend, with an increase of the number of active rollbackers and a decrease of the weight on the most active administrators. https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio%28a%29:HAndrade_%28WMF%29/Pesquisa_Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=36301585#Combatentes A thing that is perhaps not moving (enough): I see Helder has already worked on several abuse filters; but both him and others would be able to help more with abuse filter suggestions if you or someone else made a sample list of vandal edits, reasonably big (in the thousands) for study. You may know these edits, as you say the damage is done. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #70 from Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org --- I hate to say this but I recommend that this be rejected and closed as WONTFIX. The CAPTCHA was intended to be a temporary measure that became all-too permanent; there exist better tools for addressing floods of bad edits (such as AbuseFilter). I should be very interested to see how many *good faith* edits were rejected over the past several years, but I think that's a pipe-dream. I think this request violates the spirit of our core principles if not the letter thereof. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #60 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- We'll have the new revert stats for June shortly after the month ends and discussions are still active on pt.wiki, so it doesn't make much sense to make hasty moves now. As for the time needed, discussions on the matter on pt.wiki have never been active for more than a few consecutive days, so a year won't help figuring out anything; a couple months would be more than enough. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #61 from Teles salvadore...@hotmail.com --- There is no active discussion on pt.wiki about CAPTCHA. Community already made it's decision. Active discussions refers to other ways of dealing with vandalism, which will also be necessary on CAPTCHA removal, but won't be enough or won't be implemented soon. We are aware that CAPTCHA won't be there forever. Thanks for attending this request. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #62 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- That's what I said. How do you know they won't be enough? I don't see that in the discussions. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #63 from Teles salvadore...@hotmail.com --- There is no they yet; only ideas, nothing really solid and still unlikely to be implemented in the next two months. What should we do in this meanwhile? Pretend that we are doing ok with vandalism? I don't know what kind of argument is that... you are saying that recently created ideas will be enough because it not said that they won't be enough? There are infinite unsaid things there and I can't say they are true. There's an inversion here; it should be said that they 'are' enough for we start thinking on it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #64 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #63) it should be said that they 'are' enough for we start thinking on it. This perfectly shows why pt.wiki had a CAPTCHA, now proven useless and counter-productive, for 5 years: *of course* you can't know if something works before trying it. But if you refuse to think about solutions, quite naturally solutions won't implement themselves. You've not even tried to tell users that there's a problem with vandalism and they need to help with patrolling... no wonder they don't. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #65 from Teles salvadore...@hotmail.com --- (In reply to comment #64) (In reply to comment #63) it should be said that they 'are' enough for we start thinking on it. This perfectly shows why pt.wiki had a CAPTCHA, now proven useless and counter-productive, for 5 years: *of course* you can't know if something works before trying it. But if you refuse to think about solutions, quite naturally solutions won't implement themselves. So, if nobody says it is 'not' enough we implement it? You've not even tried to tell users that there's a problem with vandalism and they need to help with patrolling... no wonder they don't. You really have no idea what you are saying. I don't even follow pt.wiki discussions to say that. I do that for years (example on a related discussion where that is exactly what I say: [1]). I always said we need more sysops, rollbackers, hugglers, patrollers or any kind of user willing to help with vandalism. That only proves your comments are false; just like this comment is false: discussions on the matter on pt.wiki have never been active for more than a few consecutive days. One more time, I have to come here and say what is already obvious for pt.wiki users and defend me from a false accusation. It is obvious that we need more users and not only me but others say that too. But this way of trying to push a point of view is getting ridiculous and it is sad that you are starting to use false statements to defend your ideas. Readers should start being more careful when reading your comments. [1] - https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia:Esplanada/geral/Salebot_parado_(17mai2013)diff=35793682oldid=35792157 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #66 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #64) (In reply to comment #63) it should be said that they 'are' enough for we start thinking on it. This perfectly shows why pt.wiki had a CAPTCHA, now proven useless and counter-productive, for 5 years: *of course* you can't know if something works before trying it. But if you refuse to think about solutions, quite naturally solutions won't implement themselves. You've not even tried to tell users that there's a problem with vandalism and they need to help with patrolling... no wonder they don't. Please, Nemo, stop trying to talk for us because you ARE NOT one of us. Don't pretend to know the first thing about what happens down there. If you continue this path, you'll eventually be blocked and shunned there for gross misrepresentation. If you want to be a productive member of our community, learn to respect it first, specially when it disagrees with you. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #67 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- Once again you two make use of personal attacks against anyone disagreeing with you. :) (As was previously done with half a dozen of pt.wiki users, see bug 41745 comment 39.) I've never said what comment 65 claims I said and I never claimed to represent the pt.wiki community as comment 66 accuses. I respect the community and I wouldn't be participating in this discussion if I didn't do so or if I didn't care about pt.wiki; however, I can't respect personal attacks and bullying. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #68 from Teles salvadore...@hotmail.com --- I am sure you can show me where my comment has personal attacks. I say you have made false statements, because you did. You should be more careful with what you say. You said I didn't do something I do a lot. (In reply to comment #67) Once again you two make use of personal attacks against anyone disagreeing with you. You said Once again. Show me the other time I did it, please. Otherwise, that is another false accusation. Like I said earlier, you seem to be looking for ways to lead this conversation to a non resolvent path. That is why I asked for review of a sysadmin, that I am sure would choose a better way to deal with that. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #69 from Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org --- In general: Could we please move Show me your personal attacks questions and discussions outside of this bug report, e.g. into private emails? I'm interested in receiving bugmail about this ticket, not about personal misunderstandings. Assume people mean well and have good intentions, please. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #59 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- Thank you both for the feedback. It's been very helpful. Alex M. (Krenair) is working on this at Gerrit changeset 69982. The change is nearly ready to be implemented, we just need to figure out whether to implement a hard expiry or a soft expiry (cf. comment 56). Once that's figured out, this change can be merged and deployed, I think. Assuming no further objections or obstacles, I imagine Sam R. (Reedy) will be able to do this on Monday, July 1. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #58 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #57) (In reply to comment #56) Alchimista: What do you think about the idea of setting a fixed expiry for this I can agree to that too and I think we'll find no problems in the community. And since we have now lots of skilled people willing to help, I'm sure this whole thing will come to a sensible solution in the period. And, if this is done together with bug 41522 (as Helder proposed above), we surely can have, in a year, hard data on a major wiki about this thing that surely would be helpful no only to us but to support any research about CAPTCHA. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #57 from Alchimista alchimist...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #56) Alchimista: What do you think about the idea of setting a fixed expiry for this setting (hard or soft)? A soft expiry would be an accompanying code comment saying please remove this setting after 2014-06-25. A hard expiry would be PHP logic that automatically disables the setting after 2014-06-25. My personal feeling (and I have no idea if this is shared) is that this is a very sub-optimal situation that everyone would like to address. I think setting a year expiry would alleviate some concerns about principles while allowing the temporary solution to function. A year seems like a sufficient amount of time to work together to fix the underlying issue and make the CAPTCHA no longer needed for these edits. This seems a very reasonable mid-term solution for the impasse. One year should be enough so that community can adjust it self for the non-captcha world, without the pressure of a tight schedule, and allowing to get ride of emergency captcha by it's own decision, and at the same time, a fixed one year deadline would, like you've said, alleviate some concerns about the principles. I believe that if this solution gets well explained to local community, it'll provably be understood, and i can try it if needed. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #52 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #51) The real question is whether any shell user is willing to merge and deploy the proposed change. Well, and also whether if it won't be reverted by another shell user. :) Considering that we now have proof that the all-edits CAPTCHA didn't affect vandalism, but merely reduced (a lot) both good and bad edits, adding it would directly and blatantly contradict the WMF strategic plan (participation goal). The strategy is at board level and not even WMF staff, but in this case the interpretation of it seems simple: it doesn't directly apply to everyone, though (e.g. pt.wiki probably doesn't care), so perhaps a volunteer shell user would be more confident about ignoring it; unless someone (the CTO?) redefines the strategy's interpretation... On a community/general point of view, there's still much more to say about this request but the discussion is continuing at all levels so I'll leave it for later. By the way, we have a new dump: http://dumps.wikimedia.org/ptwiki/20130622/ I eagerly wait for WikiStats. :) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #53 from Alchimista alchimist...@gmail.com --- With all due respect, but if this was such a clear and evident conflict with wikimedia principles or even with the strategic plans, why wasn't that fact brought up to light several months ago? The previous bug started on November 2012, and as far as i see, it was never brought up. In fact, it was stated that if a new resolution came out, it could be restored[1]. Right now, and without intent to offend anyone, and specially not MZM which has my respect and didn't participate in the previous bug, but this seems like a Kafkian situation. It was disabled because the original vote wasn't clear, now that there's a clear and transparent community decision, the problem is the WMF ST, and what's next? The sun and the moon alignment isn't perfect? I'm provably being a little rude here, but honestly, it's so frustration to think that my community went to several wiki discussions, irc discussions, got stressed, and in the end, it was for nothing because what was valid and a sugested solution on April, now it's not. And this brings an important point on a collaborative project. If things aren't clear and transparent, and there is not a mutual respect, it's condemned to failure, and we all should remember this point. Like many others said, there's been on wiki discussions, this situation has been discussed on bug 41745, so if it was such a violation, why didn't anyone reported yet, on the bug, or even on the wiki discussions? Finally, what would fit more the WMF Strategic Plan: go against a clear and overwhelming community decision, causing the entropy and distrust that everyone can see in the wiki discussions and this two bugs, or, enabling captcha and work with the community in order that everyone (or at least the vast majority of the community) peaceful decide that it's everything prepared to live without emergencycaptcha? 1) https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41745#c10 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net changed: What|Removed |Added CC|tom...@twkozlowski.net | --- Comment #54 from Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net --- I think time's ripe for me to stop watching this bug and go waste my time somewhere else. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #55 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #53) Finally, what would fit more the WMF Strategic Plan: go against a clear and overwhelming community decision, causing the entropy and distrust that everyone can see in the wiki discussions and this two bugs, or, enabling captcha and work with the community in order that everyone (or at least the vast majority of the community) peaceful decide that it's everything prepared to live without emergencycaptcha? This looks like a false dichotomy and loaded rhetorical question. As for the rest, there were no promises, it was simply noted (bug 41745 comment 11, 13, 18, 26 etc,; comment 2) that discussion on wiki was needed and very useful (not that it was sufficient, see e.g. comment 14 or bug 41745 comment 31). In any case, we can't be blind to the new information we have gained in the last months, just to prove a point. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #56 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- Alchimista: What do you think about the idea of setting a fixed expiry for this setting (hard or soft)? A soft expiry would be an accompanying code comment saying please remove this setting after 2014-06-25. A hard expiry would be PHP logic that automatically disables the setting after 2014-06-25. My personal feeling (and I have no idea if this is shared) is that this is a very sub-optimal situation that everyone would like to address. I think setting a year expiry would alleviate some concerns about principles while allowing the temporary solution to function. A year seems like a sufficient amount of time to work together to fix the underlying issue and make the CAPTCHA no longer needed for these edits. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|shell |shellpolicy -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #41 from Stegop jose.mario.pi...@gmail.com --- Thank you for your reply, Platonides. Maybe your intention wasn't calling us morons, but it was exactly what was done when Nemo writes what he did 2013-06-20 12:19:00 about a poll with dozens with more than double or triple the usual participation in that kind of processes. Curiously that Nemo is the same guy who disabled the captcha without asking anyone and came to PT.WP writing in Italian (like it was a common language anywhere out of Italy), coming from nowhere saying that 2 weeks wasn't enough to decide a thing that the community has been discussing for months. But let's hope that such thing is hope. Now, let's try to be objetive: 1. The PT.WP presents a noticeable raising in invalid editions that take time to editors to correct since the captcha was disabled. 2. No matter which are the reasons for that, the same way that there isn't any clear opposition the test new methods, nobody from those who propose such things took the initiative of saying ok, I'll try to implement this or that. 3. Me, and I suppose many more editors, are too tired of listening that there are more effective means and we need studies, but are there any studies about the alternatives? Because our problem now is *real*: we have a great increase of vandalism that we hadn't without the captcha. 4. Being an IT professional (it's because of that I am not much interested in the technical details of things as I don't want to see wikipedia like a second job) I am t used to the usual difficulties in communicating with non-techs. But even the most geeky blockheads can understand that saying I disabled that because it isn't the best solution without pointing out a concrete alternative minimally tested is completely useless and will do no good to the sympathy of the customer. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #42 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- Note: (In reply to comment #41) [...] writing in Italian (like it was a common language anywhere out of Italy), [...] Unlike bugzilla, wiki talk pages don't have English as de facto only language, so people usually don't like to use English there. We're a multilingual community and all languages are well accepted were possible: es, pt, it wikimedians write to each other routinely without imposing the own language to others, depending on context. I'm willing to participate in the discussions as/when/where you like, that was confirmed to be ok in multiple places including https://pt.wikipedia.org/?diff=36171537oldid=36167076 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|shellpolicy |shell --- Comment #43 from Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org --- I don't see a reason to set this back from shell to shellpolicy as community consensus was clearly provided. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|shell |shellpolicy --- Comment #44 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- shellpolicy is not only about local consensus, but also general consensus and policy and technical reasons; the discussion about those is still ongoing, I don't know what's going to be the conclusion. It's not *that* clear what the local consensus is for, anyway. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #45 from Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org --- Nemo: Keyword description of shellpolicy says Consensus is needed from someone who is familiar with community standards. Who would you propose specifically, if not the affected community? If consensus of the affected community is not sufficient, are those community standards defined somewhere? the discussion about those is still ongoing Not in the PT community, it seems (or am I missing links?). but also general consensus and policy and technical reasons I'd like to see proof that this is a common interpretation of other considerations on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requesting_wiki_configuration_changes - or wherever else that interpretation comes from (sources?). So which exact actions would need to be taken to turn the shellpolicy keyword into a shell keyword then, to make it actionable? I'm asking all this because I currently do not see a *clear* ground for rejecting this request, which seems to be supported by a large number of members of PT community. I do see enough issues to discuss though and lots of different interpretations, and once clearer guidelines have been agreed on or better tools exist to fight the actual problem that led to this request, the potential to reevaluate or even revert the request to reenable the CAPTCHA. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Alex Monk (Krenair) kren...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|shellpolicy |shell --- Comment #46 from Alex Monk (Krenair) kren...@gmail.com --- Global consensus is unnecessary. No other request has to wait for that, you are putting the bar unfairly high here because you personally disagree with the change. I suggest you stop attempting to interfere with the ptwiki community's request, you have no more right to try to stop this than any other community member. Do not modify the shell keyword again. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #47 from Alex Monk (Krenair) kren...@gmail.com --- Oh, and to be clear: There are absolutely no technical issues with this, it was working fine for over 5 years until you got involved. Even if there were it wouldn't be shellpolicy. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #48 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- As much as I disagree with reenabling the CAPTCHA, Alex and Andre are right here; this is a very very bad solution, but it seems to be a solution indeed. And now for trying to do something else – I'm willing to help you with AbuseFilter filters and the title backlist mentioned earlier, if only there is a way for me to do that when I don't speak Portuguese :( (I speak a little Spanish, so can understand Portuguese with some help from Google Translate, though). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 OTAVIO1981 otavio1981.w...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||otavio1981.w...@gmail.com --- Comment #49 from OTAVIO1981 otavio1981.w...@gmail.com --- I'm sure lusophone community appreciate any help in developing better tools than captcha to reduce vandalism. We are already monitory the level of vandalism (HAndrade (WMF) is involved with this) and some discussion is going on at [1] regarding to Anti-Vandal project and [2] regarding to abusefilter. So, please what is the best way to contact you, guys (Excluding IRC)? Thanks! [1] http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Projetos/AntiVandalismo [2] http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Filtro_de_edi%C3%A7%C3%B5es/Solicita%C3%A7%C3%B5es -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #50 from Teles salvadore...@hotmail.com --- Since the beginning, it was made clear in discussions that this change is thought to be temporary. Even those that live in the stone age - as kindly mentioned above - know that this is not the best solution and that is why it was taken as a way to reduce the amount of edits while we discuss other ways to improve page patrolling, which would replace CAPTCHA in a near future. Better ways to deal with vandalism are very welcomed. My opposition was only for discussing the vote page itself and for questioning community desire (which is clear), putting non-procedural barriers to make this discussion take a non-resolvent path. The thing is that, while we discuss here, vandalism is happening on wiki and we have signs of overwork and even inability to deal in some periods of the day and we need to do something right now. I am happy to see that others are willing to help on finding better ways and I am sure community will be pleased to discuss ways to remove CAPTCHA for good in a responsible way. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #51 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- (In reply to comment #45) but also general consensus and policy and technical reasons I'd like to see proof that this is a common interpretation of other considerations on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requesting_wiki_configuration_changes - or wherever else that interpretation comes from (sources?). I think you want [[m:Limits to configuration changes]]. I'm asking all this because I currently do not see a *clear* ground for rejecting this request, which seems to be supported by a large number of members of PT community. There are fundamental principles on Wikimedia wikis that cannot be violated. For example, even if a project really wanted to add Google Analytics or Google Adwords to its site (and had a vote with overwhelming consensus to implement the change), that would not be allowed. Plenty of requests are unambiguous and easy to resolve. Some requests get murky when they threaten core principles. Using the shellpolicy keyword to mark bugs that fall into the latter category doesn't seem particularly inappropriate to me. But it seems like a silly thing to argue over. The real question is whether any shell user is willing to merge and deploy the proposed change. My bet is that the answer is yes, but I'm still not sure merging the change is the best course of action. Perhaps as a temporary measure with a finite expiry. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #37 from Platonides platoni...@gmail.com --- Stegop, 1) Nobody called you morons (or at least nobody intended to do so). 2) I just mentioned about reenabling it for a few months a few comments before. 3) No, if you don't know about X you're not dumb, that's called ignorance and is thanksfully much easier to fix. Sorry, I don't want to look pedantic on terminology or to bore you with silly samples, but the right thing would be to help (teach) you, not to leave ptwiki in stone age. 4) There were some studies (albeit small). See the discussion. 5) Yes, I can read Portuguese, even if not fluently. I'm sorry you feel like that (not the best path for discussion, but I have also needed to rant my frustration from time to time :). Yes, I would like to help ptwiki to overcome this, preferably without forcing the captcha to the users for other 5 years. BUT, I don't know exactly the best way to do so. Treating me as a dumb moron, how would you define the problem? Not having a patrol project? Not enough reviewers? Lots of people writing learn English? Lack of bots? Should we propose “huggle lessons for pt”? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #38 from Helder mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #37) ... Not having a patrol project? Not enough reviewers? Lots of people writing learn English? Lack of bots? Should we propose “huggle lessons for pt”? There is some discussion on this subject at https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_talk:Projetos/AntiVandalismo -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #39 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #37) Stegop, 1) Nobody called you morons (or at least nobody intended to do so). 2) I just mentioned about reenabling it for a few months a few comments before. 3) No, if you don't know about X you're not dumb, that's called ignorance and is thanksfully much easier to fix. Sorry, I don't want to look pedantic on terminology or to bore you with silly samples, but the right thing would be to help (teach) you, not to leave ptwiki in stone age. 4) There were some studies (albeit small). See the discussion. 5) Yes, I can read Portuguese, even if not fluently. I'm sorry you feel like that (not the best path for discussion, but I have also needed to rant my frustration from time to time :). Yes, I would like to help ptwiki to overcome this, preferably without forcing the captcha to the users for other 5 years. BUT, I don't know exactly the best way to do so. Treating me as a dumb moron, how would you define the problem? Not having a patrol project? Not enough reviewers? Lots of people writing learn English? Lack of bots? Should we propose “huggle lessons for pt”? :First things first. We're trying to sort out some users who could be more active on Huggle and - I'm impressed by this - some old timers even came back to reclaim their buttons. But, I think we do have a really great gap to bridge when we talk about bots, filters and scripts. Look at comment 21 above (by user MZMcBride), for instance. I took it to our Village Pump three days ago and, discounting GoEThe (who also commented above), I got zip I could not find someone who could explain to me why it is easy or obvious. And, going a bit further, we do have a lot of dead bots. In this matter, if you really want to help (it would be appreciated), talk to our very short list of what I call wise guys: Alchimista, !Silent, Danilo.mac and Helder.wiki. And, for filters, Kleiner. Those five are the only one (by now) capable of having a meaningful tech-talk with you guys. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #40 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #38) (In reply to comment #37) ... Not having a patrol project? Not enough reviewers? Lots of people writing learn English? Lack of bots? Should we propose “huggle lessons for pt”? There is some discussion on this subject at https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_talk:Projetos/AntiVandalismo :Yes, as I said before, we're trying to sort out why active vandal fighters are not yet rollbackers. Sadly, most of the most active are also some of the more controversial and risk loosing them also if we poke them enough... Still working on this and at least three or four new rollbackers in the last couple of days. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Stegop jose.mario.pi...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||jose.mario.pi...@gmail.com --- Comment #35 from Stegop jose.mario.pi...@gmail.com --- The arguments of the all-mighty, all-wise developpers, guardians of the ''Wikimedia principles'', or whatever, can be resumed like that: 85% of the editors of one of the 10 wikipedias with more articles don't give a damn about the ''Wikimedia principles'' and basically are complete morons. Who cares about the the damage that IP's cause to the information that is in the articles? And so what that the editors can't cope with the amount of damage that comes from IP's? More important than the quality of the articles is that nice idea that everything is done to guarantee that whoever wants to put the dummiest joke on an article or any copy/paste isn't bothered; after all, the main job of the registered editors is to spend 80% of their time reverting and correcting the rubish and spam contributed by the others, all in the name of anybody can edit, as if it was too complicated creating a login or writing down a captcha. ''Oh, but there are are more effective methods of diminishing vandalism''. Ok, again we are dumb because we weren't able to discuss and implement them. Maybe your paternalism and ''superior'' judgement would be more useful if you said something like why don't you consider implementing this and that method and we'll talk about the captcha in one or two monthes?. Instead of that you, like the worst of the politians and used cars sellers, pretend that the perception of 85% of the people who are worried about vandalism and, instead of making beautiful speeches about the wiki spirit, do their best to preserve a minimum of quality to the moron's pt.wikipedia , are all wrong because nobody did a study. If you are worried about participation, if you have wee bit of life experience, you are shooting your feet with a canon, because there is nothing more harmful to a comunity (more if it is made of volontaries) than to call them morons with paternalist or pseudo-moralist atitudes like yours. If you knew how to read Portuguese you would notice that even people who are against the captcha are really angry with your atitude and now it will be much more difficult to refuse radical proposals that can be implemented without the the aproval of the all-mighty guardians of the Wikimedia ethics. Supposedly powerful governments fall in the street for much less and remember that here the real danger isn't any kind of real rebellion, but something much more damageful to the project: the mass abandonment of the projet from editors that in one day bring more to the project that all the IP's in one week. Dismiss these arguments any way you want, you can call them exxagerated, catastrophic, radical, unpolite, subversive, whatever; I don't give a damn... After all, I am a volontary who has believed that my work of many hundred of hours doing my best to preserve and improving the quality of Wikipedia was part of something which was worth, a really free project where little big games of power, sex of the angels discussions and alikes were secondary. If you convince me that I don't belong here because my ideas are all wrong, better for me, and surely that the project will hardly notice that I finally decided that it's wiser to me to find another way of spending all the time I spend here. But remember that there will be much more people thinking and doing the same. But, as in real life, here we notice the same tendency of those who have a little power in their hands, that makes them think that they know better about what should be done than those who are on the terrain. I am too old for such a thing coming as a surprise, but while I almost gave up fighting against situations like this in professional life because there I am obliged to cope with that, in volontary projects is much harder to tolerate that anyone tells you that you and 85% of your peers that participate in a poll are complete moron proposing this or that. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #36 from Gerrit Notification Bot gerritad...@wikimedia.org --- Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/69982 (Gerrit Change I3c6035ac747461f621c1698afaffec5abc3d5df4) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Alex Monk (Krenair) kren...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|shellpolicy |shell Assignee|tom...@twkozlowski.net |kren...@gmail.com -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Enable CAPTCHA for all |Enable CAPTCHA for all |edits of non-confirmed |edits of non-confirmed |users on pt.wikipedia |users on pt.wikipedia in ||order to reduce editing ||activity -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #23 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #22) [...] The users who combat vandalism were working harder to avoid the vandalism, thinking that its is a phase, that CAPTCHA will be re-enabled soon. [...] This is because you only have less than 20 rollbackers dealing with it, a number targeted to old conditions; are you interested in a list of very active patrollers who could be nominated for election as rollbackers to help? Have you told the community more help is needed? We need something that decrease the amount of IPs edits, Thanks, I've updated the summary. because now this is the unique way to decrease the amount of vandalism. If you think better, give us one year or six months to develop better ways to combat vandalism, we have already created a project to study the alternatives. But now we need the CAPTCHA, now this is the unique way to keep the vandalism in a level we can deal. I +1 this: (In reply to comment #21) Can one of you please provide examples of edits that you want to prevent? What edits would you like to stop that you believe adding a CAPTCHA will prevent? Please provide as many examples as you would like. The more examples you can provide, the better feedback you can get, I think. There are a number of developers actively watching this bug report. :-) We're only speaking of a handful thousands of reverted edits per month more. If you're interested in quick solution, you could ask User:HAndrade (WMF) (who has already been very helpful) to list all the reverted edits he counted, and I volunteer to inspect them for patterns. We could see if rate limits would help and so on; all those who follow this report without being pt.wiki users do so because they're interested in technical solutions, so I'm sure they'd help too. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #24 from goethe.w...@gmail.com --- I am the last person to want to see the CAPTCHA reinstated on pt.wikipedia, but I think we should have a clear answer on whether the proposed change is possible to implement or not. By possible, I mean, if there is anyone willing to implement it. There are a lot of other issues being discussed on this bug right now that are perhaps better done elsewhere. I agree with many of the objections to the way the voting was worded, alternatives not being discussed (and I mentioned these in the talk page of the proposal, being quickly dismissed). Many of the people that wanted to have CAPTCHA removed, ended up voting for the reinstatement because of perceived interference from the outside, so I think you should consider whether your actions are being counter-productive. So right now, all is needed is for a clear answer: Is it possible to reinstate the CAPTCHA for all anonymous edits or not? It is not good to waste everyone's time with data analysis, discussion, bitterness and so on, if when we are back here with all those questions answered, the decision would still be the same. In the meantime, I invite everyone (from all sides) to join the Antivandalism project https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/Antivandalismo and finally talk seriously about improving the other measures available. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #25 from Alchimista alchimist...@gmail.com --- I strongly agree with Goethe's statement. The community decided to reinstate the captcha, we can discuss if it was the best decision or not, but the fact is that there is a clear community decision. I've voted for the reintroduction of emergency captcha, but right now, i'm much more interested in getting my community peaceful again, and work for getting things prepared for the removal in a near future. What the removal showed was that we weren't prepared. We need to reinforce the number of rc's patrollers, improve our anti-vandalisms bots, improve our abuse filters and provably try some new approaches. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #26 from Helder mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #20) Copying Erik and Howie F. on this. I seem to remember the PageTriage extension coming about as the result of some vote or discussion on the English Wikipedia. It was a compromise measure. Something similar may work here. We already have a discussion about that extension (which is not related to the CAPTCHA discussion so far): http://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=36097623 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #27 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #21) (In reply to comment #0) Portuguese Wikipedia already used CAPTCHA that way for five years. It was removed in April (see bug 41745) as it was said a community decision was necessary to keep it. (In reply to comment #19) And, to make this perfectly clear, almost everyone commented that their support to turn captcha on was only until some other - better - way to avoid vandalisms was found. Hi. Can one of you please provide examples of edits that you want to prevent? What edits would you like to stop that you believe adding a CAPTCHA will prevent? Please provide as many examples as you would like. The more examples you can provide, the better feedback you can get, I think. There are a number of developers actively watching this bug report. :-) I think we should focus on the types of edits you want to prevent (the problem) rather than focusing on adding a CAPTCHA (a proposed solution). And for what it's worth, a wiki can easily disable or deter edits by anonymous users by using [[w:pt:MediaWiki:Titleblacklist]] or [[w:pt:Special:AbuseFilter]]. Though you can't use the AbuseFilter to force a CAPTCHA (yet: bug 18110). I'm trying to ascertain if there is anyone in our community who knows how to implement those suggestions. Aparently, easily means something different down here... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #28 from Helder mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #21) There are a number of developers actively watching this bug report. :-) Would any of them be interested in improving gerrit Change-Id: I5ad1f8d51368645870da3fde79ea7d1b8e41e7a5 for solving bug 41522? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #29 from Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net --- (In reply to comment #27) I'm trying to ascertain if there is anyone in our community who knows how to implement those suggestions. Aparently, easily means something different down here... Bug 45066 comment 33 lists some possible solutions to the vandalism problem; you might want to have a look at it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #30 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #28) (In reply to comment #21) There are a number of developers actively watching this bug report. :-) Would any of them be interested in improving gerrit Change-Id: I5ad1f8d51368645870da3fde79ea7d1b8e41e7a5 for solving bug 41522? Would be nice but not so useful here IMHO. Is there a bug for logging actions caught by rate limits (for the case a stricter one is set)? Today I at last studied SQL properly just to provide pt.wiki a list of possible new rollbackers, so I feel I've done my wiki homework. :) https://pt.wikipedia.org/?oldid=36169678#.2Breversores -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #31 from Helder mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- Here is some data on the current usage of the AbuseFilter on ptwiki[1]. There are: * 82 filters enabled: ** 8 private filters ** 46 filters tagging edits ** 34 filters warning users ** 19 filters disallowing the matched edits ** 3 filters with throttle * 38 edits on filters in 2013: ** each of them made by one of 10 different users[2]. ** a significant part (20) of these edits were not related to vandalism fighting, but to make partial blocks of specific users (e.g. from editing certain namespaces until bug 28530 is solved) or pages (to avoid edit wars). ** there was only one filter changed from warn to disallow[3], but we still lack a good way to find good candidates for this kind of change (e.g. the false positives count mentioned on bug 28213). There may be space for abusefilter-related improvements but I don't see enough people with the interest or skills needed for that. [1] https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter?sort=af_hit_countlimit=500desc=1deletedfilters=hideuselang=en [2] https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/history/?dir=prevoffset=2013010100uselang=en [3] https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/history/70/diff/prev/1354?uselang=en -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||anubhav...@gmail.com, ||cste...@wikimedia.org --- Comment #32 from Platonides platoni...@gmail.com --- Adding Anubhav, for the problem of determining spam edits, so perhaps his gsoc project can help ptwiki. Goethe, the risk I see is that once the CAPTCHA is reinstated, the interest on getting the right solution may disappear, and ptwiki will be stuck with the “wrong” one for other 5 years. On the other hand, if it was temporarily reenabling it for 2-3 months (with a disabling date clearly set) while actively looking for better solutions, recruiting more patrollers, etc. I think it can be acceptable Helder, skills are less of a problem. Those patrollers should be able to detect and report some vandalism patterns they are encountering. The problem is to learn what actions to block. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #33 from goethe.w...@gmail.com --- Platonides, I agree and I mentioned that in the discussion and is one of the reasons I voted against the reinstatement of the CAPTCHA. I am not saying that this should be implemented, only that a clear path of possibilities should be laid out by you, so that we don't keep discussing and voting things that can not happen. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 49860] Enable CAPTCHA for all edits of non-confirmed users on pt.wikipedia in order to reduce editing activity
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860 --- Comment #34 from jbribe...@itaubba.com.br --- (In reply to comment #30) (In reply to comment #28) (In reply to comment #21) There are a number of developers actively watching this bug report. :-) Would any of them be interested in improving gerrit Change-Id: I5ad1f8d51368645870da3fde79ea7d1b8e41e7a5 for solving bug 41522? Would be nice but not so useful here IMHO. Is there a bug for logging actions caught by rate limits (for the case a stricter one is set)? Today I at last studied SQL properly just to provide pt.wiki a list of possible new rollbackers, so I feel I've done my wiki homework. :) https://pt.wikipedia.org/?oldid=36169678#.2Breversores I'm trying to correlate the list of possible rollbackers you created with the list of people who already are rollbackers. It seems to me that we have enough rollbackers, but very few who know how to use Huggle (or are willing to do so). We have 3 users who use it on a dayly basis and at most ten more who use it form time to time). And we have no patrol projects in place to watch Recent Changes and New Pages, although we do have a few users and sysops dedicated to the job. About filters, almost no one know (perhaps 5 guys) anything about them. There is a growing concern there that the situation could quickly escalate with the new Visual Editor next month, but there is very little interest in it as whole. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
