Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust
This is indeed a great success, First India chapter registration, then first office outside US in Delhi, 1st India WikiConference and then this. Hopng for the best success. On 12 November 2011 10:24, Deepon Saha hideeponh...@gmail.com wrote: Congrats Hisham, Looking forward to the new programs... :) Deepon On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:12 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote: Announcement of Wikimedia India Program Trust Congratulations, Hisham. I know this has been a lot of work for you and the team over the last few months. I look forward to seeing the programs that the trust and the chapter develop together. There's tons of work to do. :-) -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- * ସୁ ଭା ସି ସ ପା ଣି ଗା ହି ** S u b h a s i s a P a n i g a h i ** ଓଡ଼ିଆ ଉଇକିପିଡ଼ିଆ ___ Wikipedia Odia (Oriya) mailing list wikipedia...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-or facebook.com/OdiaWiki Tweet @OdiaWiki * ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust
Glad to hear that, will definitely help programs in India. Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MikeLynch) Steering committee, United States Education Program On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:24, Deepon Saha hideeponh...@gmail.com wrote: Congrats Hisham, Looking forward to the new programs... :) Deepon On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:12 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote: Announcement of Wikimedia India Program Trust Congratulations, Hisham. I know this has been a lot of work for you and the team over the last few months. I look forward to seeing the programs that the trust and the chapter develop together. There's tons of work to do. :-) -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Topics for my talk @wikiconference India
Hi Barry, Warm welcome to India !!! Thanks, naveenpf On 12 November 2011 00:10, Adethya Sudarsanan adethyas...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Barry, Greetings. Glad you are making your presence to India conference and delivering a talk. Cant wait to to hear your words. IMO, I think it would be nice, if your talk focuses on the future of India/Indians in the wikimedia movement.. You might also consider talking on how people can contribute to improve Wikipedia's presence among the strong and culturally inclined Indian community. Open for suggestions. Thanks, Ade. On 11 November 2011 23:37, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, I'm really looking forward to Wikiconference India next week and congrats in advance to the organizers, who have put countless hours into the work of preparing this unprecedented gathering in India. The program committee invited me to do a talk on Sunday which is a great honor, thank you! I'd like to ask for your input on areas you would like me to focus on in my talk. I will have time set aside for discussion, but want to see if you have any particular interest areas that you'd like me to focus on. Thanks and see you on Friday! Barry -- Barry Newstead Chief Global Development Officer Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indian Language wikipedia Statistics – 2011 September
Thanks Shiju for putting this together !!! Waiting for more statistics on other Wikimedia projects like Wiktionary, Wikisource Wikibooks ... :-) Wiktionary 1. Bengali http://bn.wiktionary.org/ 2. Divehi http://dv.wiktionary.org/ 3. Gujarati http://gu.wiktionary.org/ 4. Hindi http://hi.wiktionary.org/ 5. Kannada http://kn.wiktionary.org/ 6. Malayalam http://ml.wiktionary.org/ 7. Marathi http://mr.wiktionary.org/ 8. Nepali http://ne.wiktionary.org/ 9. Odia http://or.wiktionary.org/ 10. Pali http://pa.wiktionary.org/ 11. Sanskrit http://sa.wiktionary.org/ 12. Sindhi http://sd.wiktionary.org/ 13. Tamil http://ta.wiktionary.org/ 14. Telugu http://te.wiktionary.org/ 15. Urdu http://ur.wiktionary.org/ Wikisource 1. Bengali http://bn.wikisource.org/ 2. Kannada http://kn.wikisource.org/ 3. Malayalam http://ml.wikisource.org/ 4. Sanskrit http://sa.wikisource.org/ 5. Tamil http://ta.wikisource.org/ 6. Telugu http://te.wikisource.org/ WikiBooks 1. Bengali http://bn.wikibooks.org/ 2. Hindi http://hi.wikibooks.org/ 3. Kannada http://kn.wikibooks.org/ 4. Malayalam http://ml.wikibooks.org/ 5. Marathi http://mr.wikibooks.org/ 6. Nepali http://ne.wikibooks.org/ 7. Pali http://pa.wikibooks.org/ 8. Sanskrit http://sa.wikibooks.org/ 9. Tamil http://ta.wikibooks.org/ 10. Telugu http://te.wikibooks.org/ 11. Urdu http://ur.wikibooks.org/ Wikiquote 1. Gujarati http://gu.wikiquote.org/ 2. Hindi http://hi.wikiquote.org/ 3. Kannada http://kn.wikiquote.org/ 4. Malayalam http://ml.wikiquote.org/ 5. Marathi http://mr.wikiquote.org/ 6. Tamil http://ta.wikiquote.org/ 7. Telugu http://te.wikiquote.org/ 8. Urdu http://ur.wikiquote.org/ Thanks, naveenpf On 11 November 2011 23:33, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hey Shiju, Thanks for putting this together and continuing to focus our lenses on Indic language projects...which of course is your job now. :) Cheers, Barry On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Shiju Alex sh...@wikimedia.org wrote: If you can put this on some wiki page on wikipedia english or else on wikimedia India, that will give some official status and authenticity. In fact I was working on the wiki version. It is placed in meta wiki now. Here is the link. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Indic_Languages/Statistics/2011_September Thanks for reminding me about the wiki version Regards Shiju On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar sudhanwa@gmail.com wrote: Hi, If you can put this on some wiki page on wikipedia english or else on wikimedia India, that will give some official status and authenticity. Please consider the same alongwith keeping the article on your own blog. Regards -Sudhanwa On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Shiju Alex sh...@wikimedia.org wrote: Dear Wikimedians, I have compiled the statistical report of Indian language wikipedias for the month of 2011 September. It is available here: http://shijualex.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/indian-language-wikipedia-statistics-2011-september/ Shiju ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~! web: www.sudhanwa.com blog: www.sudhanwa.in Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Barry Newstead Chief Global Development Officer Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [WikiConference-India 2011] Fw: WikiConference India 2011/Statistics
Hi Mandar, We want to make that automated for wikipedia and all wikimedia projects... dont know whom to contact. Thanks, Naveen Francis On 11 November 2011 13:57, Mandar Kulkarni mvkulkarn...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Can somebody correct the data in the 1st link pl. .. ( http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiConference_India_2011/Statistics) With Regards, Mandar V. Kulkarni - Forwarded Message - *From:* Mandar Kulkarni mvkulkarn...@yahoo.co.uk *To:* wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 November 2011, 19:38 *Subject:* [Wikimediaindia-l] WikiConference India 2011/Statistics Dear All, I checked below link on wiki-meta page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiConference_India_2011/Statistics, but the statistics shown in this link looks to be much old. The latest statistics is available at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias. Just for e.g. 1st link shows 37,03,613 articles in English where the real time data shows number as 37,90,952. This is applicable for all languages. With Regards, Mandar V. Kulkarni ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ WikiConference-India mailing list wikiconference-in...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiconference-india ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] INR in 2011 Fundraising!! -- Finally
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Already possible to see Indian people in the banners (they at least were doing test with) Achal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHAL Srikeit Tadepalli: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_Srikeit_BaseBanner Clicked the link but couldn't read the appeals though. Have others read them? Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] INR in 2011 Fundraising!! -- Finally
Achal appeal is here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=L11_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHA The other one is a text for the banner (it seems) because has no appeal associate to it. _ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 12 November 2011 07:13, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Already possible to see Indian people in the banners (they at least were doing test with) Achal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHAL Srikeit Tadepalli: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_Srikeit_BaseBanner Clicked the link but couldn't read the appeals though. Have others read them? Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] INR in 2011 Fundraising!! -- Finally
Sorry, wrong link. the right one is: https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=L11_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHAL/en _ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 12 November 2011 10:18, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Achal appeal is here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=L11_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHA The other one is a text for the banner (it seems) because has no appeal associate to it. _ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 12 November 2011 07:13, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Béria Lima berial...@gmail.com wrote: Already possible to see Indian people in the banners (they at least were doing test with) Achal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_FRDRILL6_1012_ACHAL Srikeit Tadepalli: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/viewtemplate=B_Srikeit_BaseBanner Clicked the link but couldn't read the appeals though. Have others read them? Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
[Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Hi all, If you are not aware of it yet, India Education Program Pilot died around a week back[1] and a post mortem was done on Signpost[2]. I wonder if we Indians like to only rejoice success's and keep silence when we fail. One could have acknowledged the death on this list. It didnt happen. Bad. I am sad, guilty, angry all at the same time. I could not give more time for being an Online Ambassador. I thought role of an OA would be to help out people who are reaching out for help, only to understand later OA needs to look what people are doing edit by edit, reach out to them and help them. That is a lesson learnt for me. The program has taught us many different lessons for each of us but are we too fast in race to pause for a moment and analyze? Plans for next rollout is already ON[3], without doing enough justice to large post-mortem. Am disappointed. While large section of post mortem completely ignored one basic premise. Quality of Indian Students Faculty. If you dont select only the interested / qualified ones, we will fail again miserably, no matter how many ambassadors are there. Probably the students in the program must be selected how ambassadors were selected in Pune and then try the pilot with 20-30 *interested* students/faculty instead of heading to a college, pushing through top management of College and making a failure out of IEP. Another thing with colleges are If you can't do in odd semester, you can't do it in even semester. So I would suggest some detailed analysis before launching any further programs. I find a lot more can be done to this Findings and Learnings[4]. It is good to have CAs who have reasonable experience in editing wikipedia. Its MUST, not good to have. Infact this factor made some OA, CA's from PPI feel bad on why they are ambassadors. I personally don't believe that Indian culture had much bearing on this pilot. Some students in India – as elsewhere – are either lazy and plagiarize or they genuinely believe that close paraphrasing means something is no longer plagiarized. Please get to close to reality Hisham, Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. If IEP continues to do Marks for Wikipedia editing campaign, we will fail again, only consolation next time might be it would be easy to clean up since we would be cautious with numbers. Also certain level of competence is required for article creation (or even basic editing for that matter), I think we need to acknowledge it and shouldnt just be going around with the notion Everyone can edit simply without adding a pinch of Salt. WP:COMPETENCE[5] is not about subject matter expertise, its about Competence required for Wikipedia editing, many of which cannot be practically expected from all Indian students / Faculty. [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program#Meeting_with_the_Director_of_College_of_Engineering.2C_Pune [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-11-07/Special_report [3] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-in-blr/2011-November/000545.html [4] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:COMPETENCE -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On 12 November 2011 18:10, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik@gmail.com wrote: If you are not aware of it yet, India Education Program Pilot died around a week back[1] and a post mortem was done on Signpost[2]. I wonder if we Indians like to only rejoice success's and keep silence when we fail. Srikantha, thanks for posting this. I did not know about it till you posted it and I am sure there are many like me. It is worrying but at the same time offers us a chance to make things better for the future. As I see it, the majority of the challenges have been around plagiarism and copyright violations. (I wish we wouldn't conflate these things - they aren't the same.) There are multiple ways to solve this - one is technology and the other one is the age old methods of 'capacity building' and 'sensitisation'. Question is, are the latter two areas of work for the India Programs office because they aren't short term or easy. A via-media is to run all submission through some http://turnitin.com/ type system to check. Or maybe a hybrid - where they don't edit on the mainspace but say on a sandbox run in India by, perhaps, the Chapter and then they graduate? It's easy to overwhelm the system when so many students sign up - a ladder of evolution in to a Wikipedia editor might help. As might the idea of pairing/twining either the students together (they check each other) or student with current editor (which may have already failed). Either way, I agree - it isn't a post-mortem (it's such a gruesome word!) that's needed but some honesty and vulnerability to learn, accept and act on the feedback. Thank you. Best, Gautam http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
[Wikimediaindia-l] Update on India Education Program
I thought I'd share with you a couple of links that are of relevance to the India Education Program. As you are aware, we are running a pilot of the education program in Pune. We are collating hard numbers to evaluate the pilot - and we'll share a full evaluation as soon as it is ready. However, it is clear that there are a number of mistakes that have been made - some of which ought to have been avoided (especially with regards to communicating stronger with the global wikipedia community, not agreeing to so many students signing up, anticipating the copy-pasting issue, etc.) There've been many learnings that we're taking from it and Nitika has been collating these at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program Please do note that this page is a draft and is very much work-in-progress. In addition, do also check out the discussion page - which we are trying to have as a focal point for all discussion regarding the education program. In addition, Signpost covered the education program on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-11-07/Interview and there are some very nuanced and insightful comments on it. I wanted to share these two pages because some of you might not be aware of them. Please feel free to join the conversations on either/both page. I also do want to publicly acknowledge the stunning work of the Campus Ambassadors. I know they have taken a lot of flak and my heart goes out to them. You are an awesome team and it's been wonderful to see you at work. Your fingerprints are all over every good article! Thank you! I also know that there have been wonderful contributions by a bunch of students and I do hope their fantastic accomplishments are not lost out in the discussion on the pilot's problems. Do check out some more of the geat work of students (in addition to the ones Nitika had shared earlier) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenges_of_Inflationary_Policy_In_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector_banks_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Control http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_paper_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_money_market http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_management_in_Indian_banks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy_of_India Over the next few weeks, we will take an objective, data and fact driven review of the pilot and then determine the best way forward. We will learn from our mistakes and will do so with brutal integrity and objectivity. Warm Regards, hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Our mails coincided, Srikanth, but my comments inline. hisham On Nov 12, 2011, at 6:10 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: Hi all, If you are not aware of it yet, India Education Program Pilot died around a week back[1] and a post mortem was done on Signpost[2]. I wonder if we Indians like to only rejoice success's and keep silence when we fail. One could have acknowledged the death on this list. It didnt happen. Bad. That's not accurate. The dates are as follows: It was concluded in all but 1 class of Symbiosis School of Economics a few weeks ago (because the assignements were concluded.) It continues in 1 class at this college and at 1 class at the SNDT Women's University. We asked College of Engineering Pune to stop the program in their classrooms last week. It is still being continued at this college by 1 professor nevertheless. I am sad, guilty, angry all at the same time. I could not give more time for being an Online Ambassador. I thought role of an OA would be to help out people who are reaching out for help, only to understand later OA needs to look what people are doing edit by edit, reach out to them and help them. That is a lesson learnt for me. The program has taught us many different lessons for each of us but are we too fast in race to pause for a moment and analyze? Plans for next rollout is already ON[3], without doing enough justice to large post-mortem. Am disappointed. There is going to be a through analysis of this pilot. The links you are referring are not plans for a rollout; they are just an invite to see if any existing community members in other cities could invest the kind of time (during work hours and in classrooms) that Campus Ambassadors need to do. While large section of post mortem completely ignored one basic premise. Quality of Indian Students Faculty. If you dont select only the interested / qualified ones, we will fail again miserably, no matter how many ambassadors are there. Probably the students in the program must be selected how ambassadors were selected in Pune and then try the pilot with 20-30 *interested* students/faculty instead of heading to a college, pushing through top management of College and making a failure out of IEP. Another thing with colleges are If you can't do in odd semester, you can't do it in even semester. So I would suggest some detailed analysis before launching any further programs. At none of the colleges did we push this through the top management. Having said that we should have looked at much lower student numbers. I didn't get the comment on even and odd semesters I find a lot more can be done to this Findings and Learnings[4]. Please do share your additional points. As I mentioned, it's very much work in progress. It is good to have CAs who have reasonable experience in editing wikipedia. Fully agree. Having said that, given the relatively small community size in India, and the amount of face-to-face class time that Campus Ambassadors need to put in, there will be a number of CAs who will be newbies. We must however amend our selection and training criteria for them going forward. Its MUST, not good to have. Infact this factor made some OA, CA's from PPI feel bad on why they are ambassadors. I personally don't believe that Indian culture had much bearing on this pilot. Some students in India – as elsewhere – are either lazy and plagiarize or they genuinely believe that close paraphrasing means something is no longer plagiarized. Please get to close to reality Hisham, As i mentioned in my mail, we are going to do am objective review of this and this will inform the way forward. Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. If IEP continues to do Marks for Wikipedia editing campaign, we will fail again, only consolation next time might be it would be easy to clean up since we would be cautious with numbers. Also certain level of competence is required for article creation (or even basic editing for that matter), I think we need to acknowledge it and shouldnt just be going around with the notion Everyone can edit simply without adding a pinch of Salt. WP:COMPETENCE[5] is not about subject matter expertise, its about Competence required for Wikipedia editing, many of which cannot be practically expected from all Indian students / Faculty. There are many learnings and we will take all of them on board. [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_-_India_Programs/Education_Program#Meeting_with_the_Director_of_College_of_Engineering.2C_Pune [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-11-07/Special_report [3]
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On 12 November 2011 18:55, Swaroop Rao raul.swar...@gmail.com wrote: It used to be easier to spot copyvios on English Wikipedia earlier, but due to some issues with Google, the bot which detected the copyvios (CorenBot) is no longer running, though I have come to understand that Jimmy and Coren are having talks with Google on this. Fair enough. Just that at the scale the India program will run at, a technology solution might very well be a easier first step than human interventions. I think sandbox editing before going to mainspace would work out well here. But a sandbox in a Chapter hosted wiki doesn't seem right to me, because it is almost totally disconnected from the ground realities at English Wikipedia. Also, editing on an enwiki sandbox will enable better feedback Quite possibly correct. Just wondering about it in terms of DMCA liability for the WMF and more. Thank you. Best, Gautam http://blog.prathambooks.org/p/social-media.html ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Gautam John wrote: Srikantha, thanks for posting this. I did not know about it till you posted it and I am sure there are many like me. It is worrying but at the same time offers us a chance to make things better for the future. Apologies, Gautam, Srikanth and others, I ought to have posted the updates on the India mailing list too. As I see it, the majority of the challenges have been around plagiarism and copyright violations. (I wish we wouldn't conflate these things - they aren't the same.) Agree There are multiple ways to solve this - one is technology and the other one is the age old methods of 'capacity building' and 'sensitisation'. Question is, are the latter two areas of work for the India Programs office because they aren't short term or easy. A via-media is to run all submission through some http://turnitin.com/ type system to check. Or maybe a hybrid - where they don't edit on the mainspace but say on a sandbox run in India by, perhaps, the Chapter and then they graduate? It's easy to overwhelm the system when so many students sign up - a ladder of evolution in to a Wikipedia editor might help. As might the idea of pairing/twining either the students together (they check each other) or student with current editor (which may have already failed). All valid suggestions and we will consider them all in our analysis of what went wrong and how/if we can do things better going forward. that's needed but some honesty and vulnerability to learn, accept and act on the feedback. Absolutely, Gautam, and that's exactly how we will approach this. hisham___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Topics for my talk @wikiconference India
Warm welcome to India barry, hope this'd be like a homecoming for you as you have been closely associated with several programs in India. And about suggestions from Indian Wikipedians, i'd request you to put few words about your understanding and suggestions about regional communities in different parts of India. rgds Subha On 12 November 2011 13:28, Naveen Francis navee...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Barry, Warm welcome to India !!! Thanks, naveenpf On 12 November 2011 00:10, Adethya Sudarsanan adethyas...@gmail.comwrote: Hey Barry, Greetings. Glad you are making your presence to India conference and delivering a talk. Cant wait to to hear your words. IMO, I think it would be nice, if your talk focuses on the future of India/Indians in the wikimedia movement.. You might also consider talking on how people can contribute to improve Wikipedia's presence among the strong and culturally inclined Indian community. Open for suggestions. Thanks, Ade. On 11 November 2011 23:37, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Hi all, I'm really looking forward to Wikiconference India next week and congrats in advance to the organizers, who have put countless hours into the work of preparing this unprecedented gathering in India. The program committee invited me to do a talk on Sunday which is a great honor, thank you! I'd like to ask for your input on areas you would like me to focus on in my talk. I will have time set aside for discussion, but want to see if you have any particular interest areas that you'd like me to focus on. Thanks and see you on Friday! Barry -- Barry Newstead Chief Global Development Officer Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- * ସୁ ଭା ସି ସ ପା ଣି ଗା ହି ** S u b h a s i s a P a n i g a h i ** ଓଡ଼ିଆ ଉଇକିପିଡ଼ିଆ ___ Wikipedia Odia (Oriya) mailing list wikipedia...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-or facebook.com/OdiaWiki Tweet @OdiaWiki * ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Gautam John wrote: Fair enough. Just that at the scale the India program will run at, a technology solution might very well be a easier first step than human interventions. If we can't manage the scale (as we couldn't in this pilot), then we will reduce the scale. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignment given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someone from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by being failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And how many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now) So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where a student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he added approved. Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup comments from the IEP page . Without a no-nonsense approach, you will only gets repeats of such behaviour. So here is what is to be done: 1) *Keep the number low* - The next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide blanket programs. Make this a interested students only program. We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle anything more. We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the students and IP addresses. 2) *Penalise those who copy paste* - either they should be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that desperate. 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. *Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, start with a 50. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 18:56, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote: That's not accurate. The dates are as follows: It was concluded in all but 1 class of Symbiosis School of Economics a few weeks ago (because the assignements were concluded.) It continues in 1 class at this college and at 1 class at the SNDT Women's University. We asked College of Engineering Pune to stop the program in their classrooms last week. It is still being continued at this college by 1 professor nevertheless. Probably the same could have been highlighted enough at Signpost. The signpost heading conveys its closed down. There is going to be a through analysis of this pilot. The links you are referring are not plans for a rollout; they are just an invite to see if any existing community members in other cities could invest the kind of time (during work hours and in classrooms) that Campus Ambassadors need to do. Thanks for clarifying, helps much. At none of the colleges did we push this through the top management. Well I cant help point CoEP where the director was much excited about the program and without his push directly / indirectly, I wonder if 800+ students would have voluntarily signed up. I will never agree if anyone says 800+ students voluntarily asked/agreed for Wikipedia assignments without staff / whoever else asking them to do so. Having said that we should have looked at much lower student numbers. Agree I didn't get the comment on even and odd semesters Well it was my suggestion/opinion if you are planning next roll out in Jan. Odd semesters in Indian colleges are longer ones July- Dec typically and give time for students / staff to do extra things. Even semesters are shorter Jan-May (April in many cases) so the duration for anything in colleges are limited in even sem. This is the reason why you will find most extra-curriculars happening in odd-sem. I am not sure if we did a time audit of the pilot, but it took very late to have students start editing and they were stopped almost in 2-3 weeks. We may not have that much time to engage with students / faculty on even semesters. It is good to have CAs who have reasonable experience in editing wikipedia. Fully agree. Having said that, given the relatively small community size in India, and the amount of face-to-face class time that Campus Ambassadors need to put in, there will be a number of CAs who will be newbies. We must however amend our selection and training criteria for them going forward. I would say make CAs as wikipedians with atleast 500+ edits on en.wiki to give them a flavor of complexities in enwiki before they help out others. In other words, start early on CA's get more commitment early on, that before they go ahead and preach(teach) they practice(edit) enough. -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Iv used turnitin during my MBA and can say that Iv seen people upload their projects there, note where the software catches them, change the language in that part and re-submit. People will go to any lengths .. Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:33:12 +0530 From: sodabot...@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignment given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someone from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by being failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And how many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now) So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where a student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he added approved. Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup comments from the IEP page . Without a no-nonsense approach, you will only gets repeats of such behaviour. So here is what is to be done: 1) Keep the number low - The next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide blanket programs. Make this a interested students only program. We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle anything more. We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the students and IP addresses. 2) Penalise those who copy paste - either they should be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that desperate. 3) The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, start with a 50. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 19:33, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.com wrote: Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignment given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someone from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by being failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And how many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now) So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where a student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he added approved. Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup comments from the IEP page . Without a no-nonsense approach, you will only gets repeats of such behaviour. So here is what is to be done: 1) *Keep the number low* - The next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide blanket programs. Make this a interested students only program. We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle anything more. We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the students and IP addresses. That's true. The enwiki community is losing its patience really. 2) *Penalise those who copy paste* - either they should be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that desperate. A bit harder to enforce, since academic plagiarism is practised en masse by many professors themselves (not generalizing, just saying that the problem goes way deeper than the students). 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. *Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, start with a 50. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l Swaroop Rao Steering Committee member, United States Education Program ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
[Wikimediaindia-l] [WCI] Registrations Closed
Hi all, We have closed the registrations for the conference. Thank you for your interest and looking forward to seeing you at conference. If you have missed registering, see you at next conference. :) -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Also, it seems that CoEP has most of the problems; I think that CoEP being an engineering college, is more rigid in its working than other science/commerce/liberal arts colleges. What we could do is branch out into other streams (other than engineering I mean); Law for example: Why not have law students editing about Intellectual Property Rights (I know the irony we'll have in case we have copyvios out of that). And the course structuring in other colleges are a bit different, so they could accommodate programs like the Wikimedia education programs much easier. Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MikeLynch) Steering Committee member, United States Education Program On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 19:39, Swaroop Rao raul.swar...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 19:33, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.comwrote: Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignment given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someone from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by being failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And how many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now) So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where a student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he added approved. Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup comments from the IEP page . Without a no-nonsense approach, you will only gets repeats of such behaviour. So here is what is to be done: 1) *Keep the number low* - The next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide blanket programs. Make this a interested students only program. We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle anything more. We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the students and IP addresses. That's true. The enwiki community is losing its patience really. 2) *Penalise those who copy paste* - either they should be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that desperate. A bit harder to enforce, since academic plagiarism is practised en masse by many professors themselves (not generalizing, just saying that the problem goes way deeper than the students). 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. *Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, start with a 50. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l Swaroop Rao Steering Committee member, United States Education Program ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
From Bala's words... //Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. // Sure. We can (OAs) guide the students can help them in editing kindaa things. But, expecting OAs should keep an eye on the particular student's article keep tracking them is not a good idea. And, doing it in this way is a small English Wikipedia Admin kindaa thing. Many OAs including me, are contributing taking initiatives to develop their language projects, the OA role gives them a burden really. Because I felt it. ONLINE AMBASSADORING IS NOT REALLY ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA ADMINISTRATING ROLE. Because, I indirectly directed to that role only. I really DISLIKE that. + I am agree with the number of students. (50) Thank you. *$U®¥∩* http://goo.gl/RoMyo.com http://FirefoxSurya.blogspot.com http://about.me/suryaceg On 12 November 2011 19:39, Swaroop Rao raul.swar...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 19:33, Bala Jeyaraman sodabot...@gmail.comwrote: Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved In my four years of college, i copy pasted almost every single assignment given to me. I did not know it was wrong and wouldnt have cared if someone from outside pointed it to me. The attitude i saw from the IEP students is exactly the same. Unless the students are penalised for plagiarism by being failed in the course, they are not going to change the behaviour. And how many of your professors in indian education were concerned that you were copy pasting your assignment. (None of mine cared - i can say with confidence that is the same case in 99% of the cases in India now) So no amount of increasing the number of campus ambassadors, their training, etc would help unless there is a stick involved - How many times did the campus ambassadors tried to tell students not to copy paste?. How many of the students heeded the warning. This issue was raised in Late August. There were two whole months to hammer in the message and it didnt work out. Why? there were no serious implications for the students involved. There is a conversation in Srikanth's en wiki talk page, where a student tries to weasel out of copyvio by giving every excuse in the book - he did not correct his behaviour, but instead tried everything to get the copyvio he added approved. Those who got blocked weaseled, whined and pleaded for an unblock but in many of the cases reverted to the previous behaviour, when they thought they could get away with it. They are socking and trying to remove cleanup comments from the IEP page . Without a no-nonsense approach, you will only gets repeats of such behaviour. So here is what is to be done: 1) *Keep the number low* - The next round should have less than 50 students. No classwide / collegewide blanket programs. Make this a interested students only program. We have clearly demonstrated there is no manpower to handle anything more. We have about exhausted the goodwill of the en wiki community. If this repeats, you are looking at a wholesale blocks for the students and IP addresses. That's true. The enwiki community is losing its patience really. 2) *Penalise those who copy paste* - either they should be failed by their professors. If the professors dont care, drop the program and stop going back to that institution. Wikipedia is a work in progress, we dont need plagiarism by Indian students to shore it up. We are not that desperate. A bit harder to enforce, since academic plagiarism is practised en masse by many professors themselves (not generalizing, just saying that the problem goes way deeper than the students). 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. *Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. Go back to the drawing board. Dont start with 1000. not even a 100, start with a 50. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l Swaroop Rao Steering Committee member, United States Education Program
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Mails getting queued
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 15:15, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik@gmail.comwrote: For some reasons, lot of mails are getting queued for Message has a suspicious header and needs manual approval since yesterday(which is why you might have noted emails coming in bulk). Please note there will be delay in delivery of mails on list. Let me check if there is a bug already / file one with ops. Thanks. There was a bug filed last month[1] and I do not have great confidence of it being resolved any sooner. Should we move on to google groups or self hosted mailman if WMF cant support it? I / other moderators cant keep moderating mails forever and its a pain for both sender as well as moderators. [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/31797 -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Mails getting queued
Mark the senders as whitelisted - worked with WMPT mailing list when we had this _ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos* On 12 November 2011 15:57, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 15:15, Srikanth Lakshmanan srik@gmail.comwrote: For some reasons, lot of mails are getting queued for Message has a suspicious header and needs manual approval since yesterday(which is why you might have noted emails coming in bulk). Please note there will be delay in delivery of mails on list. Let me check if there is a bug already / file one with ops. Thanks. There was a bug filed last month[1] and I do not have great confidence of it being resolved any sooner. Should we move on to google groups or self hosted mailman if WMF cant support it? I / other moderators cant keep moderating mails forever and its a pain for both sender as well as moderators. [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/31797 -- Regards Srikanth.L ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. I think others have raised a few valid points regarding experience of the CA, the number of people that a CA can manage and what a CA was supposed to do and ended up doing. warm regards, Pradeep Mohandas ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
Hey all, I refuse to believe it dead as of yet. There's yet a lot of avenues that haven't been explored. My personal suggestion was that let IEP establish a Wikipedia Club in every college in Pune to begin with, that would inculcate new, interested members who have a genuine passion for the project. Such clubs could meet every second Sunday, hold guest lecs, set a quota for a certain no. of articles to be created by the Pune chapter and so on by the members, teach its members better editing skills, and spread the knowledge. The CA training prog that I attended was a hell lotta fun and I wish many of my friends get the feel of it too. These clubs would be managed by all the 'veteran' CAs and newer ones if needed as and when. IEP would be the umbrella organisation to it all, and we can focus a lot more on quality of articles rather than the sheer no. of editors and rampant copyvio-ing done as a consequence by the newbies. Give it thought. My friends in many colleges throughout India were literally jealous that I was a part of it. Let's not let it go unnoticed that there is genuine interest spread in pockets throughout the country. - Arjun On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Arnav Sonara sonara.ar...@gmail.comwrote: hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- - Arjun ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Topics for my talk @wikiconference India
Barry, In last Wikimania, Jimmy Wales gave a Global Wikipedian of the year award for the phenomenal work done in Khazak Wiki. http://en.tengrinews.kz/internet/3813/ But, we couldn't learn in detail about their work. Similarly, there will be many growing global Wikipedia communities that face challenges and yet do a great work. From your experiences as a Global development officer, it will be useful for us to learn how they do it. So, in essence, I would like your talk to be about growing globall communities. Not about Indian Wiki communities :) Ravi On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Barry Newstead bnewst...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, I'm really looking forward to Wikiconference India next week and congrats in advance to the organizers, who have put countless hours into the work of preparing this unprecedented gathering in India. The program committee invited me to do a talk on Sunday which is a great honor, thank you! I'd like to ask for your input on areas you would like me to focus on in my talk. I will have time set aside for discussion, but want to see if you have any particular interest areas that you'd like me to focus on. Thanks and see you on Friday! Barry ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot
Another strategy that we can adopt while doing this program in India is, about the selection of articles for editing. We can ask students to contribute to articles that they are interested in, rather than of all of them editing the articles on the same topic. The reason I am telling this is, In India (in general) it is not the students who are deciding the course (and career) that they want to study/pursue. Parents, relatives, and community around them decide that. So even though the student's interest may lie in a specific area, he might be studying a different course. Allowing students to edit in a topic that they like will bring in more original content. But the issue with this methodology is, the role of Professors might be reduced, and the role of CA and OA might be increased. And I am not sure how the But this methodology is adopted very successfully in Kerala using School wiki http://schoolwiki.in. But we may say, that is school children and they are not mature enough for wikipedia editing. Again that is our misconception. In general, personally I am more interested to target school students (high school and Plus 2) than college students. School children are fantastic. It is true that most of us under estimate them. But to see the successful result from India, see the young and wonderful wikipedians we have in Malayalam wikipedia and wikisource. *Note: *Please note that I am replying to this thread as a Malayalam wiki community memeber. Shiju On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Swaroop Rao raul.swar...@gmail.comwrote: That's true Arjun, there is a lot of interest in this program in many colleges, and this is going untapped. No, its not dead for sure. It was a pilot, and it didn't come out pretty; no issues, that's how we learn. I think that one thing we learnt is that the US model may not work out well for India, so we need to develop an India specific model for this (That's what we've been trying to do in these previous mails actually I guess). Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MikeLynch) Steering Committee member, United States Education Program On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 23:36, Arjun mangol arjun.man...@gmail.comwrote: Hey all, I refuse to believe it dead as of yet. There's yet a lot of avenues that haven't been explored. My personal suggestion was that let IEP establish a Wikipedia Club in every college in Pune to begin with, that would inculcate new, interested members who have a genuine passion for the project. Such clubs could meet every second Sunday, hold guest lecs, set a quota for a certain no. of articles to be created by the Pune chapter and so on by the members, teach its members better editing skills, and spread the knowledge. The CA training prog that I attended was a hell lotta fun and I wish many of my friends get the feel of it too. These clubs would be managed by all the 'veteran' CAs and newer ones if needed as and when. IEP would be the umbrella organisation to it all, and we can focus a lot more on quality of articles rather than the sheer no. of editors and rampant copyvio-ing done as a consequence by the newbies. Give it thought. My friends in many colleges throughout India were literally jealous that I was a part of it. Let's not let it go unnoticed that there is genuine interest spread in pockets throughout the country. - Arjun On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Arnav Sonara sonara.ar...@gmail.comwrote: hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- - Arjun ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote: Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on their own. +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved My view is not driven by political correctness but I do want to avoid generalising all students and all faculty. Just take a look a the user talk and article discussion pages and it's immediately apparent that quite a few students and teachers wouldn't deserve blame. Many students did make mistakes - but they made the same mistakes that many newbies. So here is what is to be done: 1) Keep the number low - Agree and we need to work on how we select the colleges and faculty and classes and students. 2) Penalise those who copy paste This is something that can (and should) be led by the faculty. Some teachers have shown the way on how this can be done. 3) The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. Clearly the student:CA ratio needs to be reduced significantly. ...but did you mean students:CA 5:1 or 1:5? Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be that an editor (in this case who happened to be a student) contributed content to an article. It would (almost routinely) reviewed by other editors who coudl/would improve it or point out issues. One of the aspects that the better students have fed back to us is the value of the collaboration with the global editing community. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 18:56, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote: That's not accurate. The dates are as follows: It was concluded in all but 1 class of Symbiosis School of Economics a few weeks ago (because the assignements were concluded.) It continues in 1 class at this college and at 1 class at the SNDT Women's University. We asked College of Engineering Pune to stop the program in their classrooms last week. It is still being continued at this college by 1 professor nevertheless. Probably the same could have been highlighted enough at Signpost. The signpost heading conveys its closed down. We had requested Signpost to amend it's heading. At none of the colleges did we push this through the top management. Well I cant help point CoEP where the director was much excited about the program and without his push directly / indirectly, I wonder if 800+ students would have voluntarily signed up. I will never agree if anyone says 800+ students voluntarily asked/agreed for Wikipedia assignments without staff / whoever else asking them to do so. True. However, even at CoEP, faculty were at liberty not to join the program (and indeed, most of them chose not to.) However, the point made on the learnings ought to be taken in conjunction with that of faculty involvement. Director buy-in is important but can only compliment and not substitute for faculty involvement and capability.In the classes where we have got better results than in others, this played a critical role. I didn't get the comment on even and odd semesters Well it was my suggestion/opinion if you are planning next roll out in Jan. Odd semesters in Indian colleges are longer ones July- Dec typically and give time for students / staff to do extra things. Even semesters are shorter Jan-May (April in many cases) so the duration for anything in colleges are limited in even sem. This is the reason why you will find most extra-curriculars happening in odd-sem. I am not sure if we did a time audit of the pilot, but it took very late to have students start editing and they were stopped almost in 2-3 weeks. We may not have that much time to engage with students / faculty on even semesters. Ah, understood. That's an interesting and great point. It is good to have CAs who have reasonable experience in editing wikipedia. Fully agree. Having said that, given the relatively small community size in India, and the amount of face-to-face class time that Campus Ambassadors need to put in, there will be a number of CAs who will be newbies. We must however amend our selection and training criteria for them going forward. I would say make CAs as wikipedians with atleast 500+ edits on en.wiki to give them a flavor of complexities in enwiki before they help out others. In other words, start early on CA's get more commitment early on, that before they go ahead and preach(teach) they practice(edit) enough. I don't think anyone would suggest that CAs shouldn't edit more or understand Wikipedia policies better. Having said that, the experience in the US suggested that newbie CAs were as good as (and sometimes even better) than existing Wikipedians in the role of CAs. (They hypothesis on this is that they were helping teach Wikipedia to newbies - so they were able to calibrate and structure their messaging accordingly.) As I said a sentence earlier, we do need to modify our selection, training and ongoing development regime for CAs - but edit count alone might not be the only measure (though an important one.) hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 7:37 PM, wheredevelsd...@hotmail.com wheredevelsd...@hotmail.com wrote: Iv used turnitin during my MBA and can say that Iv seen people upload their projects there, note where the software catches them, change the language in that part and re-submit. People will go to any lengths .. We do need to work on something going forward for sure, whatever the actual package is. ...but we'll certainly look at turnitin for sure. Thanks, Pranav hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Swaroop Rao wrote: Also, it seems that CoEP has most of the problems; I think that CoEP being an engineering college, is more rigid in its working than other science/commerce/liberal arts colleges. What we could do is branch out into other streams (other than engineering I mean); Law for example: Why not have law students editing about Intellectual Property Rights (I know the irony we'll have in case we have copyvios out of that). And the course structuring in other colleges are a bit different, so they could accommodate programs like the Wikimedia education programs much easier. Actually, my view is that many colleges (regardless of stream) have the structural flexibility to accommodate a program like this. To illustrate, there is (in most cases) an option for class assignments (marked or otherwise) to be determined by the faculty (sometimes independently and sometimes after getting the approval of the Director and / or an academic council of some kind.) Event those affiliated to Pune University, for instance, had this kind of flexibility. We do need to look at what kind of streams we should look at it. Another learning for instance is that a first year engineering student ends up (in many cases) being taught basic fundamentals - which are either well covered on Wikipedia or on which it is difficult to put in a meaningful entry. A 3rd year arts/humanities student does not have this particular problem - but sometimes are more concerned by placements / admissions than academic endeavors. My point being that we need to look at the results of the pilot and then establish patterns which can help evaluate the pilot and inform the way forward. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot
Thanks Shiju. I raised same points yesterday , in Malayalam wikimedia list , in a related thread. Thanks for bringing this discussion here Anivar On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Shiju Alex shijualexonl...@gmail.comwrote: Another strategy that we can adopt while doing this program in India is, about the selection of articles for editing. We can ask students to contribute to articles that they are interested in, rather than of all of them editing the articles on the same topic. The reason I am telling this is, In India (in general) it is not the students who are deciding the course (and career) that they want to study/pursue. Parents, relatives, and community around them decide that. So even though the student's interest may lie in a specific area, he might be studying a different course. Allowing students to edit in a topic that they like will bring in more original content. But the issue with this methodology is, the role of Professors might be reduced, and the role of CA and OA might be increased. And I am not sure how the But this methodology is adopted very successfully in Kerala using School wiki http://schoolwiki.in. But we may say, that is school children and they are not mature enough for wikipedia editing. Again that is our misconception. In general, personally I am more interested to target school students (high school and Plus 2) than college students. School children are fantastic. It is true that most of us under estimate them. But to see the successful result from India, see the young and wonderful wikipedians we have in Malayalam wikipedia and wikisource. *Note: *Please note that I am replying to this thread as a Malayalam wiki community memeber. Shiju On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Swaroop Rao raul.swar...@gmail.comwrote: That's true Arjun, there is a lot of interest in this program in many colleges, and this is going untapped. No, its not dead for sure. It was a pilot, and it didn't come out pretty; no issues, that's how we learn. I think that one thing we learnt is that the US model may not work out well for India, so we need to develop an India specific model for this (That's what we've been trying to do in these previous mails actually I guess). Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MikeLynch) Steering Committee member, United States Education Program On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 23:36, Arjun mangol arjun.man...@gmail.comwrote: Hey all, I refuse to believe it dead as of yet. There's yet a lot of avenues that haven't been explored. My personal suggestion was that let IEP establish a Wikipedia Club in every college in Pune to begin with, that would inculcate new, interested members who have a genuine passion for the project. Such clubs could meet every second Sunday, hold guest lecs, set a quota for a certain no. of articles to be created by the Pune chapter and so on by the members, teach its members better editing skills, and spread the knowledge. The CA training prog that I attended was a hell lotta fun and I wish many of my friends get the feel of it too. These clubs would be managed by all the 'veteran' CAs and newer ones if needed as and when. IEP would be the umbrella organisation to it all, and we can focus a lot more on quality of articles rather than the sheer no. of editors and rampant copyvio-ing done as a consequence by the newbies. Give it thought. My friends in many colleges throughout India were literally jealous that I was a part of it. Let's not let it go unnoticed that there is genuine interest spread in pockets throughout the country. - Arjun On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Arnav Sonara sonara.ar...@gmail.comwrote: hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- - Arjun ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 8:59 PM, Surya Prakash wrote: From Bala's words... //Online Ambassadors/mentors are not handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. // Sure. We can (OAs) guide the students can help them in editing kindaa things. But, expecting OAs should keep an eye on the particular student's article keep tracking them is not a good idea. And, doing it in this way is a small English Wikipedia Admin kindaa thing. Many OAs including me, are contributing taking initiatives to develop their language projects, the OA role gives them a burden really. Because I felt it. ONLINE AMBASSADORING IS NOT REALLY ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA ADMINISTRATING ROLE. Because, I indirectly directed to that role only. I really DISLIKE that. I hear you Surya, and we will keep this in mind. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 10:39 PM, Pradeep Mohandas wrote: hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. Absolutely. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Absolutely. hisham___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Arnav Sonara wrote: Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. Agreed. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot
On Nov 13, 2011, at 5:58 AM, Shiju Alex wrote: Another strategy that we can adopt while doing this program in India is, about the selection of articles for editing. We can ask students to contribute to articles that they are interested in, rather than of all of them editing the articles on the same topic. The reason I am telling this is, In India (in general) it is not the students who are deciding the course (and career) that they want to study/pursue. Parents, relatives, and community around them decide that. So even though the student's interest may lie in a specific area, he might be studying a different course. Allowing students to edit in a topic that they like will bring in more original content. But the issue with this methodology is, the role of Professors might be reduced, and the role of CA and OA might be increased. And I am not sure how the But this methodology is adopted very successfully in Kerala using School wiki. But we may say, that is school children and they are not mature enough for wikipedia editing. Again that is our misconception. In general, personally I am more interested to target school students (high school and Plus 2) than college students. School children are fantastic. It is true that most of us under estimate them. But to see the successful result from India, see the young and wonderful wikipedians we have in Malayalam wikipedia and wikisource. Note: Please note that I am replying to this thread as a Malayalam wiki community memeber. Shiju Those are very valid points, Shiju. ...and we should and will take lessons from the malayalam wikipedia and wikisource initiatives, and other similar ones. is what you are suggesting something similar to a student's club hisham___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 12, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Arjun mangol wrote: Hey all, I refuse to believe it dead as of yet. There's yet a lot of avenues that haven't been explored. My personal suggestion was that let IEP establish a Wikipedia Club in every college in Pune to begin with, that would inculcate new, interested members who have a genuine passion for the project. Such clubs could meet every second Sunday, hold guest lecs, set a quota for a certain no. of articles to be created by the Pune chapter and so on by the members, teach its members better editing skills, and spread the knowledge. The CA training prog that I attended was a hell lotta fun and I wish many of my friends get the feel of it too. These clubs would be managed by all the 'veteran' CAs and newer ones if needed as and when. IEP would be the umbrella organisation to it all, and we can focus a lot more on quality of articles rather than the sheer no. of editors and rampant copyvio-ing done as a consequence by the newbies. Give it thought. My friends in many colleges throughout India were literally jealous that I was a part of it. Let's not let it go unnoticed that there is genuine interest spread in pockets throughout the country. - Arjun all valid ideas, Arjun - and we will evaluate all of them (and all those shared on this mail thread as well.) we'll be reaching out to everyone and anyone who's interested to get their experiences, learnings, suggestions, etc. as we move forward in our evaluation. this will be an open and collaborative process - and i invite everyone to please take part in this. we'll send out details on this asap. hisham ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Nov 13, 2011, at 12:07 AM, Swaroop Rao wrote: That's true Arjun, there is a lot of interest in this program in many colleges, and this is going untapped. No, its not dead for sure. It was a pilot, and it didn't come out pretty; no issues, that's how we learn. I think that one thing we learnt is that the US model may not work out well for India, so we need to develop an India specific model for this (That's what we've been trying to do in these previous mails actually I guess). Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch) Agree with you fully, and as I mentioned earlier, we will approach the assessment of the pilot and the way forward objectively, comprehensively and dispassionately. hisham___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Noteworthy Wikimedian Recognition
Hi all, Thanks for sharing your views. I will share my response after the Wiki conference is over. For now, all the best for the event. Ravi On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Arjuna Rao Chavala arjunar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ravi, Thanks for your email. Tinu's response has captured some keypoints behind the initiative, which was discussed with EC and other stakeholders, so I will be brief. Additional responses inline.. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: Arjuna, I am not very excited with this idea of a jury for picking noteworthy Wikimedians. 1. Many noteworthy Wikimedians are serving in Jury, conference activities, chapter and WMF. Omitting them from the recognition will not give a real picture to the public. I hope you understood that the recognition is for contributions till 2010. We had good discussions on the Jury size and the implications. Jury members are also have been consulted on the process and only after their consent, the Jury is finalized. While there are other approaches for taking care if some of the jury members are nominated, in view of the short lead time, we wanted to keep the process simple. 2. Having a jury to pick this seems so Un-Wikipediac. Only in extreme cases, we have a jury in Wikimedia projects. Usually, the nomination and approval is done by the community itself. When we talk of a India wide recognition, community driven process is going to be extremly difficult, as each one of us are not aware of the contributions of Wikimedians outside one's core project. 3.There are tens of noteworthy Wikimedians for each Wikipedia. An example for Tamil Wikipedia alone at http://tawp.in/r/1eyn I can't nominate just one or two as every one's contribution is valuable and unique. Not good to have a competition sort of thing and upset a lot of people. Nominations can be done by one or more wikimedians. You can discuss in your core community and come up with nominations. Every nomination is itself a way of recognising fellow wikimedians who made a difference. 3. What is the point of a citation / certificate in this digital age? What is the purpose achieved after the event is over? When you look it as a recognition at Pan India level, even a certificate has value. This can make the noteworthy wikipedians feel that their contributions have been recognised, encourage them to share their experiences in our outreach events, can inspire our community members and strengthen the wikimedia movement. I would recommend requesting each language community and project to suggest noteworthy contributions with a mini profile and make a audio / visual out of it. These people can be interviewed and the content can be used in the conference venue and future outreach activities. This will be a powerful way to motivate and recognize a lot of people. Agree that there are alternate ways of recognition each with its own advantages and disadvantages in terms of lead time, effort etc. Foundation is attempting what you said and we can certainly leverage the same. We look forward to active participation from all in making this initiative a success. Cheers Arjun ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot -- #DelayedMail
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Arnav Sonara sonara.ar...@gmail.comwrote: hi, It was a pilot and hence I guess was meant to die at some point. First up, to the Campus Ambassadors, you guys showed a lot of courage in taking up and then following through on your commitment of being Campus Ambassadors through the length of this Pilot. I hope the team will also speak to the Ambassadors whilst doing the post-mortem so future programs have the benefit of their experience. The same also goes to the India Programs team that initiated this project. Thanks to all of you, yes this was a Pilot, but at no point I see it dying. Its just that we have taken a pause right now to learn from the findings and ll come back all prepared and with the help of you all we ll try to gain new heights again. Arnav, Good to hear back from one of the campus ambassadors. I think it would be great if we could hear back from many more of you - as those who were on the front lines of this program, what are your views on it? What did you think worked? What would you change? What gave you a feeling of pride? What made you worried? By you, I don't mean just you, but all the campus ambassadors who are on this list. Hope you'll will write in and share your thoughts on these or other aspects. And in the midst of all the flak, congratulations, all CAs. With the huge number of students overwhelming the program, each of you probably ended up doing way more than you had signed up for. I hope you continue to take and feel pride in that very sincere effort, regardless of the outcome of this. Also - I would love to hear from Nitika, who was dealing with this program on the ground. (What did you make of this, Nitika? Pros and cons?) Please don't feel pressured by my request; we've already heard back from en:wp editors - those comments are totally valid and must be taken into account in any future iteration of the program. At the same time, I feel we also need to hear the perspectives and voices of those who worked on the program in any capacity. Cheers Bishakha -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
