Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
Marlon, it's about business, Moto saw money to be made, as they have done with their canopy systems. How much for a razor ph. and how much for a canopy cpe?? You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't agree with all of it. But the main issues are in agreement with what most wisps will want. Pushing for unlicensed vs. licensed is a big leap in our direction for Moto. laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
Actually, a razor phone cost more or less the same as a Canopy CPE Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl A jeptha Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing Marlon, it's about business, Moto saw money to be made, as they have done with their canopy systems. How much for a razor ph. and how much for a canopy cpe?? You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't agree with all of it. But the main issues are in agreement with what most wisps will want. Pushing for unlicensed vs. licensed is a big leap in our direction for Moto. laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
link for all filings on NPRM 04-186: *http://tinyurl.com/yswcon* link for Motorola's summary response to the filings: * http://tinyurl.com/2fwhtp *Motorola is a large company with many divisions and many interests - some of which certainly conflict. Of course, these filings are never filed under Motorola - Canopy Division, so someone - probably the authors listed below - has to decide where Motorola should stand. Perhaps WISPA could meet with the authors of Motorola's filing to find common ground and better understand where they're going: Steve B. Sharkey Director, Spectrum and Standards Strategy Robert D. Kubik Director, Telecom Relations Global Motorola, Inc. 1455 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 900 Washington, DC 20004 TEL: 202.371.6953 Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. Thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] NetFreeUs
At The FCC: Wireless Broadband Petition File Grows Fatter NetfreeUs LLC, a wholly owned subsidiary of wireless broadband provider Speedus Corp., has joined the first-responder-service fray, asking the Federal Communications Commission for authority to manage a new nationwide Wireless Public Broadband (WPB) network in the 2155 MHz-2175 MHz frequency band -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant persuant standards discussions will be obligated to do what is laid out in the end. You're a pretty bright guy, Marlon, and I suspect it won't take very long to see what direction this will head. You will be playing with the fates of a lot of people who did not choose this in ANY way. I haven't filed, because I cannot say I can or cannot comply. However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this moment), I will simply file stating I cannot and will not comply, period. If the FCC then desires to shut me down then, They will have to do so forcibly. I will simply write a letter to all my customers, local newspapers, and state simply that the FCC has decided to take over all internet communications in a few months, and that there's no room left for small operations, and reccommend that they direct all questions to the FCC about why thier internet service will be no more. I will cause them more grief and bury their office in irate phone calls and letters than they can possibly handle. I know several sites where I can reach millions who WILL be activists, if we're not going to act. I'm absolutely positive they have NEVER even considered the notion (and probably do not care in the slightest) that what they do could devastate people's individual lives or futures. Nor do I think they care at all about anything but their own convenience and political futures. I doubt a single person involved on the regulator's end considers that since they decided to take on and regulate an industry which is probably populated with the highest percentage of small operators (1 to 5 people) of any industry they've ever even dreamed of regulating, what they do is PERSONAL to thousands of people, and directly will impact the lives of hundreds of thousands of other individuals. Living in the isolated and unreal world of Washington DC does that to people. I suggest you pass this on to the FCC and FBI, along with my estimation that at least 20% of all small operators will do exactly the same. I am SICK AND TIRED of being fed to the wolves without the slightest resistance. You, of all people, should know what it means to be a small, one or two man operation living out in the hinterland, where the rubber meets the road. There will be small and casual networks, small community and free networks, small joint efforts by a few people to get for themselves what they have a right to get. All possibly being wiped out by careless and overreaching federal agencies. Who's gonna stick up for them? WISPA's just bleating and going along like blind sheep. I STILL cannot believe we're walking into this without a single official objection from WISPA or the other organizations supposedly on our side. I guess I should not be surprised. Expedience has become the religion of our times. Like rolling over and playing dead is going to earn us brownie points and favors later? Don't count on it. Will I help law enforcement track down and prosecute people who are breaking the law or otherwise a threat? No question at all, of COURSE I WILL. I will NOT pre-tap thier connection in any way that compromises my security or their security, costs me significantly, or is in my view, unconstitutional (which is pretty much anyting done ahead of time). That, as a citizen, is my duty. If that costs me my future and business, it's a small price to pay for what people have given their lives before me to preserve. If I can preserve that for a few people for while... I WILL DO IT. Damn, people, STAND UP FOR ONCE. mark at neofast dot net neofast, Inc, wireless internet for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Fifth, if we come up with a standard that you don't like, don't use it. Duh. There is no requirement, no way to make a requirement, nor should there be, for WISPA to force you to follow us. Feel free to follow any organization, start a new one, whatever. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Take care, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant persuant standards discussions will be obligated to do what is laid out in the end. You're a pretty bright guy, Marlon, and I suspect it won't take very long to see what direction this will head. You will be playing with the fates of a lot of people who did not choose this in ANY way. I haven't filed, because I cannot say I can or cannot comply. However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this moment), I will simply file stating I cannot and will not comply, period. If the FCC then desires to shut me down then, They will have to do so forcibly. I will simply write a letter to all my customers, local newspapers, and state simply that the FCC has decided to take over all internet communications in a few months, and that there's no room left for small operations, and reccommend that they direct all questions to the FCC about why thier internet service will be no more. I will cause them more grief and bury their office in irate phone calls and letters than they
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
I'm with you Marlon. I support your position. However, if I am all the support you have you better use a cane. Ron Wallace -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 04:36 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Fifth, if we come up with a standard that you don't like, don't use it. Duh. There is no requirement, no way to make a requirement, nor should there be, for WISPA to force you to follow us. Feel free to follow any organization, start a new one, whatever. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Take care, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant persuant standards discussions will be obligated to do what is laid out in the end. You're a pretty bright guy, Marlon, and I suspect it won't take very long to see what direction this will head. You will be playing with the fates of a lot of people who did not choose this in ANY way. I haven't filed, because I cannot say I can or cannot comply. However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this moment), I will simply file stating I cannot and will not comply, period. If the FCC then desires to shut me down then, They will have to do so forcibly. I will simply write a letter to all my customers, local newspapers, and state simply that the FCC has decided to take over all internet communications in a few months, and that there's no room left
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Mark, If you have access to reach millions, why don't you activate that little network and get them to sway the government to your cause? The can't, won't, forcibly stuff on a public, archived email list is yet another example of why the government does not like to deal with small businesses. Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi I know several sites where I can reach millions who WILL be activists, if we're not going to act. I'm absolutely positive they have NEVER even considered the notion (and probably do not care in the slightest) that what they do could devastate people's individual lives or futures. Nor do I think they care at all about anything but their own convenience and political futures. I doubt a single person involved on the regulator's end considers that since they decided to take on and regulate an industry which is probably populated with the highest percentage of small operators (1 to 5 people) of any industry they've ever even dreamed of regulating, what they do is PERSONAL to thousands of people, and directly will impact the lives of hundreds of thousands of other individuals. Living in the isolated and unreal world of Washington DC does that to people. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Mark- (I cant help myself with this one) You say However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this moment), I will simply file stating I cannot and will not comply, period. How about all of the other things you will have to do in order to operate your business- especially taxes and insurance. Did you put them into your business plan? If so, then wouldn't it just make sense to include this expense into your business plan as a must have? I don't think any govt agency is going to accept we cannot afford it in response to any govt regulations or requirements we face. Calea would be no different...right? How about we pass on the cost to our customers with a CALEA surcharge- Send a message out to the customers that we HAVE to charge you xx per month to support the govt efforts to wiretap the masses or to support the Govt efforts to keep us safe from perverts and terrorist.. (depending on your political point of view.. Marty __ Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] 703-623-4542 (Cell) 703-554-6620 (office) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wispa Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant persuant standards discussions will be obligated to do what is laid out in the end. You're a pretty bright guy, Marlon, and I suspect it won't take very long to see what direction this will head. You will be playing with the fates of a lot of people who did not choose this in ANY way. I haven't filed, because I cannot say I can or cannot comply. However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this moment), I will simply file stating I cannot and will not comply, period. If the FCC then desires to shut me down then, They will have to do so forcibly. I will simply write a letter to all my customers, local newspapers, and state simply that the FCC has decided to take over all internet communications in a few months, and that there's no room left for small operations, and reccommend that they direct all questions to the FCC about why thier internet service will be no more. I will cause them more grief and bury their office in irate phone calls and letters than they can possibly handle. I know several sites where I can reach millions who WILL be activists, if we're not going to act. I'm absolutely positive they have NEVER even considered the notion (and probably do not care in the slightest) that what they do could devastate people's individual lives or futures. Nor do I think they care at all about anything but their own convenience and political futures. I doubt a single person involved on the regulator's end considers that since they decided to take on and regulate an industry which is probably populated with the highest percentage of small operators (1 to 5 people) of any industry they've ever even dreamed of regulating, what they do is PERSONAL to thousands of people, and directly will impact the lives of hundreds of thousands of other individuals. Living in the isolated and unreal world of Washington DC does that to people. I suggest you pass this on to the FCC and FBI, along with my estimation that at least 20% of all small operators will do exactly the same. I am SICK AND TIRED of being fed to the wolves without the slightest resistance. You, of all people, should know what it means to be a small, one or two man operation living out in the hinterland, where the rubber meets the road. There will be small and casual networks, small community and free networks, small joint efforts by a few people to get for themselves what they have a right to get. All possibly being wiped out by careless and overreaching federal agencies. Who's gonna stick up for them? WISPA's just bleating and going along like blind sheep. I STILL cannot believe we're
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Sigh. This thread and sparring going at the isp-wireless list on a similar thread shows just how difficult it can be for small WISPs to agree on any one issue, much less all UL wireless broadband providers across all provider segments. Even the personally-funded best of intentions (e.g. Marlon's nine years of efforts), bring rants and rages. Now imagine the no-win situation the FCC faces in trying to keep WISPs even moderately contented. As I say, it's like herding cats during a lightning storm. But I do so love this business -- never a dull moment! Patrick Leary P.S. - Marlon, think of your seatbelt as something you wear for your kids. Driving is probably statistically the most dangerous thing you do..., well, aside from climbing a tower, but you wear a harness there too! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Fifth, if we come up with a standard that you don't like, don't use it. Duh. There is no requirement, no way to make a requirement, nor should there be, for WISPA to force you to follow us. Feel free to follow any organization, start a new one, whatever. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Take care, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Great solution Marty. Really. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marty Dougherty Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi ...How about we pass on the cost to our customers with a CALEA surcharge- Send a message out to the customers that we HAVE to charge you xx per month to support the govt efforts to wiretap the masses or to support the Govt efforts to keep us safe from perverts and terrorist... Marty __ Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:36:20 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. With $100 in the bank, you know I can't. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. I applaud your optimism. I don't share it, but at least you go hopeful that things work well, and that's a good thing, I think. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Of course. But.. sadly not the same. A LOT of WISPA members filed that they intended to use whatever standard was developed - that's what Twomey's filing stated. I have a terrible problem with putting on paper I'm going to do something when I have not a clue what that will be. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. I didn't write anything to you that I thought could be even be misconstrued as an insult to you. You know me well enough to know I don't do that. I just wanted you to understand just how some of us who CANNOT go react to these things, and if you find that relevant moment, to pass it on. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. I always have worn mine. But I don't think it should be law. I think the law is wrong and intrusive. I didn't need the law to wear it, and the law didn't change a thing in my mind. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. And here's your chance to pass on just what people think directly to those who write this stuff... and doesn't even come from you personally, making it NOT personal. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Let's not get sidetracked, Marlon. You have both an opportunity, and will bear the weight of the responsibility, of what happens, at least in some people's minds - be it good or bad. I'm realistic enough to know that what the future brings is not REALLY in your hands, but I do hope you have some influence. Not a lot of people will step up and take that on. If I didn't tell you what I thought, and give you the opportunity to represent that, SHOULD IT BE RELEVANT to your mission, then that's my fault. I said before, I don't have to lecture you, you've been where I am, you know it as well as the back of your hand. I wish you luck. For all our sakes. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:44:56 +, Ron Wallace wrote I'm with you Marlon. I support your position. However, if I am all the support you have you better use a cane. Ron Wallace I dunno if you've met Marlon, but he's got pretty decent legs of his own... he'll be alright :) Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
H, interesting idea! I believe there is something not too far from that on my phone bills already. marlon How about all of the other things you will have to do in order to operate your business- especially taxes and insurance. Did you put them into your business plan? If so, then wouldn't it just make sense to include this expense into your business plan as a must have? I don't think any govt agency is going to accept we cannot afford it in response to any govt regulations or requirements we face. Calea would be no different...right? How about we pass on the cost to our customers with a CALEA surcharge- Send a message out to the customers that we HAVE to charge you xx per month to support the govt efforts to wiretap the masses or to support the Govt efforts to keep us safe from perverts and terrorist.. (depending on your political point of view.. Marty __ Marty Dougherty CEO Roadstar Internet Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] 703-623-4542 (Cell) 703-554-6620 (office) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Was CALEA, WAY off topic video and commentary.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:05:35 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote Sigh. This thread and sparring going at the isp-wireless list on a similar thread shows just how difficult it can be for small WISPs to agree on any one issue, much less all UL wireless broadband providers across all provider segments. Even the personally-funded best of intentions (e.g. Marlon's nine years of efforts), bring rants and rages. Now imagine the no-win situation the FCC faces in trying to keep WISPs even moderately contented. Keep us contented? Ummm... That's easy. One statement to Congress, the DOJ, and the FBI. Information technology innovation and divergence has resulted in such a massive diversity of technological and physical means of delivering broadband, we believe it is impossible to uniformly intercept internet content, track users, and regulate connectivity methodology without severe disruption to our most vibrant industry. There, problem solved. Besides, CALEA never applied to ISP's anyway, so ruled the FCC, before it did a double take and now tries to hold two conflicting positions before regulators, concerning ISP's. We are, or are not, depending on the issue, a regulated industry now, with nary a logical justification for this obviously inconsistent ruling. They created this mess all on their own, and some really NASTY cat-herding efforts might cause them to re-think things in the first place, and go back to their original, supportable and consistent position that we are NOT telecommunications. As I say, it's like herding cats during a lightning storm. But I do so love this business -- never a dull moment! Patrick Leary Alright, you forced it. (snicker) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6572941025419743765 Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Of course. But.. sadly not the same. A LOT of WISPA members filed that they intended to use whatever standard was developed - that's what Twomey's filing stated. I have a terrible problem with putting on paper I'm going to do something when I have not a clue what that will be. No one will be bound by that Mark. With the 445 we simply had to file where we're at in the process and what our overall plan is. If we do manage to come up with a standard and you don't like it, don't use it. If we don't come up with a standard, then you're no worse off than today. laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
I am needing to order some customer routers in quanity. I have been using the linksys wrt54gc and really like them. Do you guys have suggestions of vendors to use? Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Thank you Marlon! I can now delete my saved response that I had composed earlier and was contemplating sending. Anyone can respond better than I as I seem to have trouble portraying what I am thinking in a really politically correct fashion. It is one of my biggest faults. (other than 12 others that come to mind real fast) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Fifth, if we come up with a standard that you don't like, don't use it. Duh. There is no requirement, no way to make a requirement, nor should there be, for WISPA to force you to follow us. Feel free to follow any organization, start a new one, whatever. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Take care, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant persuant standards discussions will be obligated to do what is laid out in the end. You're a pretty bright guy, Marlon, and I suspect it won't take very long to see what direction this will head. You will be playing with the fates of a lot of people who did not choose this in ANY way. I haven't filed, because I cannot say I can or cannot comply. However, if this costs more than $100 to implement (that's all I have in the bank at this
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:25:06 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote Do you want wireless routers? http://3btech.net/chwl80wirofo.html I have been installing these galore, they're FCC certified, and for a cheap consumer router, have the quick setup, and nice set of access control features that work real well for a customer side install. If for some reason the link doesn't work, the part number is wlb-2203. Tehy're 802.11b only, but that's sufficient for internet use. Range is excellent, and I've had no failures yet, no lockups and no crashes that I know of. And at $18 each including shipping, they beat linkcrap and netcrap completely. I've had more issues with failing netgears and buggy linksys than with ANYTHING else. I am needing to order some customer routers in quanity. I have been using the linksys wrt54gc and really like them. Do you guys have suggestions of vendors to use? Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
those will do nicely! I order a few of them to try out before I put in a big order thanks! On 3/7/07, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:25:06 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote Do you want wireless routers? http://3btech.net/chwl80wirofo.html I have been installing these galore, they're FCC certified, and for a cheap consumer router, have the quick setup, and nice set of access control features that work real well for a customer side install. If for some reason the link doesn't work, the part number is wlb-2203. Tehy're 802.11b only, but that's sufficient for internet use. Range is excellent, and I've had no failures yet, no lockups and no crashes that I know of. And at $18 each including shipping, they beat linkcrap and netcrap completely. I've had more issues with failing netgears and buggy linksys than with ANYTHING else. I am needing to order some customer routers in quanity. I have been using the linksys wrt54gc and really like them. Do you guys have suggestions of vendors to use? Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Yeah but Mac, we shore do enjoy dat weeziana drawl. You have a special way with words that few can match, not even JohnnyO. :P Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:02 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Thank you Marlon! I can now delete my saved response that I had composed earlier and was contemplating sending. Anyone can respond better than I as I seem to have trouble portraying what I am thinking in a really politically correct fashion. It is one of my biggest faults. (other than 12 others that come to mind real fast) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Sigh. First, the mission statement for WISPA, just so's we're all on the same page about motivations: Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to promoting and improving the WISP industry. Second, if you don't like it, join us in our efforts at the regulatory level. Sitting out there whining and tossing FUD around does nothing but waste our time and keep you from doing installations so that you can get more than $100 in the bank. Third, WE don't REALLY know EXACTLY what WE have to do. That's part of what the FBI meeting is about. It's not about kowtowing to the FBI, DOJ, FCC etc. It's about making sure that WE can tell YOU what is going to keep your tit out of the ringer with those people. It's also about working with them to make sure that they don't expect things that are unreasonable or pass new regs that have no regard for the realities of our industry niche. Fourth, certainly I know I'm not speaking for all WISPs. I'm speaking for WISPA. YOU get to choose whether or not you wish to agree. You can always file a statement saying you don't agree and why. The FCC loves to hear from us. Last I knew the IEEE never asked for my opinion on a standard they put in place, but I use them all day every day anyhow. Fifth, if we come up with a standard that you don't like, don't use it. Duh. There is no requirement, no way to make a requirement, nor should there be, for WISPA to force you to follow us. Feel free to follow any organization, start a new one, whatever. Sixth, don't be an ass. We're putting in our own time and usually our own money to help make this entire industry better. I don't care to be insulted for the privilege of taking away from my customers and my family. Seventh, I don't disagree with that you've said. I also think that the seatbelt laws are so much BS. But I've paid enough tickets for not wearing one that I have given in and wear mine now. In the mean time, one of these days I'm gonna run for Congress and I'll work to restore individual rights and responsibility. Till then I'll do the best I can to vote for people that respect my ability to lead my own life and my own choices. I'll also follow their dumb a$$ed rules so that I don't go broke paying tickets or end up in jail over it. Eighth, some of the things that you say people don't have to do, the lawyers constantly say that we do. Sorry, but I'm gonna put my weight on their interpretations of the rules than yours. Take care, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote Hi All, We have a meeting set up for the 22nd in Va. I have 4 people set to go to it at this time but I'd like a 5th. I'm after a network admin type. Anyone have the time and recourses available? Or if I missed your offer earlier, please let me know. I have to get info to the FBI ASAP so if you can send a network admin to this meeting (and possibly join our calea standards committee) please let me know. WISPA member companies will have first crack at this, but I'll conceder others as well. While you're there... or, perhaps on your way there, please consider the fact that you and whoever is meeting there are deciding how every other WISP will structure his network and what they will be forced to spend or do. You will...or will not... set a standard, and then the FCC and FBI will...or will not...accept it, and everyone who has filed that they will be compliant
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:19:23 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote I have around a half dozen in place, and recently bought a dozen. Doesn't even come with an ethernet cable nor printed manual, but they seem to work just fine. those will do nicely! I order a few of them to try out before I put in a big order thanks! On 3/7/07, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:25:06 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote Do you want wireless routers? http://3btech.net/chwl80wirofo.html I have been installing these galore, they're FCC certified, and for a cheap consumer router, have the quick setup, and nice set of access control features that work real well for a customer side install. If for some reason the link doesn't work, the part number is wlb-2203. Tehy're 802.11b only, but that's sufficient for internet use. Range is excellent, and I've had no failures yet, no lockups and no crashes that I know of. And at $18 each including shipping, they beat linkcrap and netcrap completely. I've had more issues with failing netgears and buggy linksys than with ANYTHING else. I am needing to order some customer routers in quanity. I have been using the linksys wrt54gc and really like them. Do you guys have suggestions of vendors to use? Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:18:11 -0500, Rick Harnish wrote Yeah but Mac, we shore do enjoy dat weeziana drawl. You have a special way with words that few can match, not even JohnnyO. :P what a kidder. Mac has never had a PC thought in his life, I'm sure :) Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 7:02 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi Thank you Marlon! I can now delete my saved response that I had composed earlier and was contemplating sending. Anyone can respond better than I as I seem to have trouble portraying what I am thinking in a really politically correct fashion. It is one of my biggest faults. (other than 12 others that come to mind real fast) Mac Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
Folks, I do not want to rant or in anyway fan flames here, but I Do want to ask the question: What are the Big Kids doing about CALEA and the talk seeping out, about data monitoring / logging from DOJ? Earthlink, AOL (and it's clones), MSN, ATT? Are those guys on the sidelines just waiting for the shoe to drop, or busily building the mega-cache systems needed to transcribe every last packet passed over their networks? Somehow is seems unlikely. I don't see how, just because we are small and independent, we have anymore to fear about the implications of these seemingly invasive measures. If anything it would seem we have much less to fear, since the shear volume of data from traffic logging would render it almost useless. Frankly I don't (with my admittedly limited understanding of the true nature of IP traffic) understand what is to prevent these traffic loggers or other data traps to be inserted anywhere on the much-fewer backbone transports and be done with it. (In truth I highly doubt that this has not in fact already been done). At any rate EFF.org and others are our best allies in trying to tame this dragon before it bites. I too, have profound concerns about the right-to-privacy (as if any of us has had that for years). But the more important issue is the FACT that the COSTS of any and all monitoring MUST, in view of the 13th Amendment, be borne by the AGENCY that wants the information, NOT US. For those who have forgotten, the 13th Amendment abolished involuntary servitude. In short we CANNOT be compelled to work for Uncle Sam for FREE. We MAY by Court Order be compelled to provide access to execute a search for a specific duration. But we do not have to DO the search for them, provide them with the forensic tools to investigate, or in anyway become unduly financially inconvenienced, in the execution of the lawful activity. But Dave, (I hear you saying) they make the phone companies provide information, Local Usage Details and the like under subpoena from the court. Why can't the do that to us? Well in part they can, but remember that Telecos are those freaks of the business world: The Regulated Utility. When these Companies agreed to operate as Regulated Monopoly Utilities the gave up many rights and assumed special responsibilities that Normal Business don't have. The requirements to log usage details was long ago shown to be a normal part of the Telco Business flow, for their in-house billing and cross-billing purposes. The Courts asking to view selected sections of those logs for fact finding was viewed as duty the comes with the privilege to do business without competition. I'm no attorney, nor have I played one on Television, but I think I have a fairly firm grip on reality. (Why is there Air?) grin I think we should be looking hard at what our older-bigger cousins in the ISP industry are doing and be prepared to join in with them for injunctive relief - IF we are asked to SPEND anything preemptively to serve the cause of law enforcement. We are NOT Monopoly Tel-Co s. Law Enforcement Agencies are in-fact the ones with the guns and badges, not us. I didn't run for Sheriff, I was not elected to the office, I have taken no oath of office. I am therefore NOT a law enforcement officer, entitled to monetary compensation. I WILL IN NO WAY IMPED the work of Law Enforcement but I cannot LEGALLY be compelled to do it FOR them at my own expense. Please Notice I am NOT discussing the value or virtue of the law enforcement activities - That's politics, and has nothing to do with the LAW or it's execution. So what the heck is my point? I Honestly believe, IF some Policy is promulgated that costs US money or time (which IS WORTH money) to do THEIR work, it WILL be held unlawful on several grounds. I THINK that supporting EFF or others that share our concerns and raising these points to them may put this dragon in a cage. I feel certain that the BIG KIDs are thinking this way. I think we should too. That, and thirty nickels will buy you a cup of coffee. Dave Brenton General Manager Rural Tennessee Wireless Broadband Bringing FAST Internet to the rest of us (sm) Dover TN (931) 232-0914 office (931) 627-1142 cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
Hi, I just ordered one to try... can you tell me if there is "remote management" options like with the Linksys routers and what port it runs on and if it can be changed? Travis Microserv wispa wrote: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:19:23 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote I have around a half dozen in place, and recently bought a dozen. Doesn't even come with an ethernet cable nor printed manual, but they seem to work just fine. those will do nicely! I order a few of them to try out before I put in a big order thanks! On 3/7/07, wispa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:25:06 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote Do you want wireless routers? http://3btech.net/chwl80wirofo.html I have been installing these galore, they're FCC certified, and for a cheap consumer router, have the quick setup, and nice set of access control features that work real well for a customer side install. If for some reason the link doesn't work, the part number is wlb-2203. Tehy're 802.11b only, but that's sufficient for internet use. Range is excellent, and I've had no failures yet, no lockups and no crashes that I know of. And at $18 each including shipping, they beat linkcrap and netcrap completely. I've had more issues with failing netgears and buggy linksys than with ANYTHING else. I am needing to order some customer routers in quanity. I have been using the linksys wrt54gc and really like them. Do you guys have suggestions of vendors to use? Thanks, _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] calea meeting with the fbi
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 22:16:38 -0600, Dave Brenton wrote Folks, I do not want to rant or in anyway fan flames here, but I Do want to ask the question: What are the Big Kids doing about CALEA and the talk seeping out, about data monitoring / logging from DOJ? Earthlink, AOL (and it's clones), MSN, ATT? Well, let's see... AOL proxies almost all traffic now, so spying on customers is normal operations... But levity aside, would solutions that cost them even a million or two really impact their budget? No, but it would sure weed out some competition for them, wouldn't it? I've been looking for info on how these people have responded, and to be honest, I don't think they have, at least not publicly. I have read two op- ed bits in industry sites expressing how they should have, but appear to have simply gone along without objection. Did any of them get money from the fund for compliance? Especially, say, Qwest or ATT? Are those guys on the sidelines just waiting for the shoe to drop, or busily building the mega-cache systems needed to transcribe every last packet passed over their networks? Somehow is seems unlikely. AOL proxies darn near everything, as far as I can tell, so that's sort of a moot point, they really can cache any customer's data probably with almost no effort. I don't see how, just because we are small and independent, we have anymore to fear about the implications of these seemingly invasive measures. If anything it would seem we have much less to fear, since the shear volume of data from traffic logging would render it almost useless. hold on, we're required to intercept specific user's data. We're supposed to separate that data from the rest and supply it alone, not just everything in a big bucket and let them sort out the packets. Frankly I don't (with my admittedly limited understanding of the true nature of IP traffic) understand what is to prevent these traffic loggers or other data traps to be inserted anywhere on the much-fewer backbone transports and be done with it. Well, if you consider how interconnected many ISP's are, then you have to realize that one customer's data could be routed a whole host of directions at the same time, and a single or even mutiple backbone taps would not likely intercept it in a coordinated fashion. (In truth I highly doubt that this has not in fact already been done). At any rate EFF.org and others are our best allies in trying to tame this dragon before it bites. I too, have profound concerns about the right-to-privacy (as if any of us has had that for years). But the more important issue is the FACT that the COSTS of any and all monitoring MUST, in view of the 13th Amendment, be borne by the AGENCY that wants the information, NOT US. I believe the notion of forcing us to pay for what they want is called taking. You can find some scant discussion of that with Google, as it applies to ISP's and CALEA. For those who have forgotten, the 13th Amendment abolished involuntary servitude. In short we CANNOT be compelled to work for Uncle Sam for FREE. We MAY by Court Order be compelled to provide access to execute a search for a specific duration. But we do not have to DO the search for them, provide them with the forensic tools to investigate, or in anyway become unduly financially inconvenienced, in the execution of the lawful activity. Well, that's exactly what CALEA demands... Not of the telcos, who got paid to do this, nor of various other carriers, who were to be compensated for the costs. Only the VOIP providers, peer to peer chat voice, ISP's, etc, segments have suddenly been added to this and are ordered to provide it all at our own expense. But Dave, (I hear you saying) they make the phone companies provide information, Local Usage Details and the like under subpoena from the court. Why can't the do that to us? Well in part they can, but remember that Telecos are those freaks of the business world: The Regulated Utility. When these Companies agreed to operate as Regulated Monopoly Utilities the gave up many rights and assumed special responsibilities that Normal Business don't have. The requirements to log usage details was long ago shown to be a normal part of the Telco Business flow, for their in-house billing and cross-billing purposes. The Courts asking to view selected sections of those logs for fact finding was viewed as duty the comes with the privilege to do business without competition. CALEA established a fund of hundreds of millions, which was used to compensate the phone companies and so on for expenses related to building compliance into switching mechanisms, etc. So, no, not even they were required to fund these mandates by themselves. I'm no attorney,
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:48:53 -0700, Travis Johnson wrote Hi, I just ordered one to try... can you tell me if there is remote management options like with the Linksys routers and what port it runs on and if it can be changed? Travis Microserv I'm pretty sure they do. It's been a while since I looked at that, and my customers are all behind NAT, so I can't reach the routers. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
I'm pretty sure they do. It's been a while since I looked at that, and my customers are all behind NAT, so I can't reach the routers. Yeah you can, you just have to set up all your routers right. I'd help you, but I'm not the one to do a good job explaining this. Maybe Butch or some one else can explain it. George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Place to purchase routers in quanity
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, George Rogato wrote: It's been a while since I looked at that, and my customers are all behind NAT, so I can't reach the routers. Yeah you can, you just have to set up all your routers right. I'd help you, but I'm not the one to do a good job explaining this. Maybe Butch or some one else can explain it. PPtP. More explanation than that shouldn't be necessary. ;-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
