Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE
I'm looking for something like this: http://www.panduit.com/stellent/images/panduit/standard/N%23DPoE24U1X-lb.jpg It was hard to see in that picture what was going on. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:30 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE Something like the picture attached? Thanks, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogelio Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE Mike Hammett wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations for rackmounted PoE injectors? I was looking at a Panduit PoE injecting 24 port patch panel, but I imagine that'll cost an arm and a leg. I'm not sure how many I'll need, but I'm guessing around 30. Good question. I'm looking for something along those lines, as well. Up to this point, I've just used loose ones that I've nailed to the wall. Tacky, I know, but pretty much all I had to work with. (Mike, please let me know if you find anything that works for you) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this? Thank You, Cameron Kilton WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Not if USF is covering the difference. __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. You are right, I do love USF!!! - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just had a dilup customer quit. She went to DSL. $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line. $29.90 for both! This was NOT an introductory rate. Good for life. She called to double check that after we warned her. Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in subsidies out here. Per phone line. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost recovery mechanism? If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it seems to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late. The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it. About is rampant from what I see. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. You are right, I do love USF!!! - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just had a dilup customer quit. She went to DSL. $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line. $29.90 for both! This was NOT an introductory rate. Good for life. She called to double check that after we warned her. Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in subsidies out here. Per phone line. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost recovery mechanism? If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it seems to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late. The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department. I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs are out there, it would be a disservice to my patrons for me NOT to take advantage of them. As long as the USF money is there, then the application that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application. I agree with you also though, it is often misused. Brians statement, If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... was just misinformed babble. If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, than I feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and to provide that service. If it weren't for programs like that, much of the rural world would still not have telephone service, or electric for that matter. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Also, as stated by my local telco when they did this, the cost was in trenching, not in fiber. There was less then a 20% difference between the copper and the fiber. The rest of the project, digging, trenching, pulling, was the same no matter what they did. On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department. I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs are out there, it would be a disservice to my patrons for me NOT to take advantage of them. As long as the USF money is there, then the application that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application. I agree with you also though, it is often misused. Brians statement, If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... was just misinformed babble. If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, than I feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and to provide that service. If it weren't for programs like that, much of the rural world would still not have telephone service, or electric for that matter. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The USF is solvent, it not supported by tax dollars and does its job in getting phone service to every last barn and sagebrush that needs it. I would say it works better than the mortgage banking industry, social security or the national budget... - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it. About is rampant from what I see. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. You are right, I do love USF!!! - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just had a dilup customer quit. She went to DSL. $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line. $29.90 for both! This was NOT an introductory rate. Good for life. She called to double check that after we warned her. Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in subsidies out here. Per phone line. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost recovery mechanism? If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it seems to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late. The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays for USF??? No, it is industry supported. 100% of the revenue comes from telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications companies. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I think that's a distinction without a difference. If the government requires the collection of the funds, then it is a tax even if they don't actually collect or hold the money. The government controls the distribution of the funds, either directly or through regulations. It's a government program one way or the other. Please keep in mind, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it...I would if I were in your shoes. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays for USF??? No, it is industry supported. 100% of the revenue comes from telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications companies. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have never seen him post babble let alone mindless. I worked for a phone company - it is a racket. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
It is not supported by a government tax, but it is supported by a varying fee that a private company charges and the government requires you to pay. That's a tax wearing a mask. I support the need for USF, but the situation Marlon describes is crap. I can't get a landline here for $30 (70 miles from Chicago), but BFE can get landline and high speed Internet for $30 because of USF funds. USF should absorb some of the cost, but not to a point where USF services are less expensive than non-USF services. People in rural areas should pay somewhere between urban price and true cost, closer to urban. I would fully expect to pay $50 for a landline in a remote area while the true cost was... $1000 or $1. I have a MAJOR beef with the fact that I am required to pay into USF as a VoIP provider (though I don't do enough revenue to be required to file), but I am not allowed to be funded by USF. That is crap. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:28 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF The USF is solvent, it not supported by tax dollars and does its job in getting phone service to every last barn and sagebrush that needs it. I would say it works better than the mortgage banking industry, social security or the national budget... - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it. About is rampant from what I see. marlon - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. You are right, I do love USF!!! - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just had a dilup customer quit. She went to DSL. $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line. $29.90 for both! This was NOT an introductory rate. Good for life. She called to double check that after we warned her. Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in subsidies out here. Per phone line. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost recovery mechanism? If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it seems to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late. The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us! marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Sour Grapes If you want USF go get some e rate or file to become a telephone company and serve places like Dangling Rope, Utah. I see continual whining by WISPS about USF and RUS funds. Folks, you can get those dollars if you want. Just like doctors can get medicare dollars if they want to go to the effort. (Now theres a racket, and you are forced into paying for that one). WISPs are the johnny come lately gang to the telecom scene. CLECs were all whining about the exact same things 15 years ago. Then they figured out how to get RUS and USF or they died. Most of them died. Why not complain about all the mining claims on federal land? You are not benefitting from those either. Just because some people (or more likely their ancestors) filed for territory and became ILECs and you didn't doesn't make them and their funding program bad and doesn't oppress or shortchange you. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have never seen him post babble let alone mindless. I worked for a phone company - it is a racket. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Chuck, Moving off the debate topic a little, I do have an honest question (not baiting, I promise) I was wondering if you could shed some light on. Maybe the answer is much longer than can be explained on the list. How is USF contribution calculated? If I recall, it changes from time to time, and seems to be different from company to company. Just curious who decides how much it is and what factors come into the calculation? thanks, Randy WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Chuck, I was speaking about more recent times, not the origination of the system and it's beginnings. What I am referring to is exactly what you said is - Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. The current phone system was built out with much funding coming from tax dollars. With that said, the American tax payer has paid for the network and continues to pay, correct? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago. The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700 Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Reading the post makes all the difference. I never NEVER said Marlon babbled. NEVER. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have never seen him post babble let alone mindless. I worked for a phone company - it is a racket. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Chuck McCown wrote: It is like sausage. ... It is private enterprise socialism administered by the federal govt. As opposed to what the market will bear decisions we evil capitalists prefer ;) Randy WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The government doesn't pay for anything. WE do the citizens who pay taxes... On 10/9/08 10:29 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays for USF??? No, it is industry supported. 100% of the revenue comes from telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications companies. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Cliff LeBoeuf 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
The hell it ain't a tax! It is taxing on my buying power! :) Also, wouldn't it fit in this definition? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax A tax is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority and is any contribution imposed by government [Š] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name.[1] On 10/9/08 10:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Cliff LeBoeuf 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
There are three questions that come up... 1) Redundancy 2) minimizing impact of failure 3) Ability to remote reboot. We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above reasons. The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot device. If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS for $15. And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger. Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower, or way up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devices, and power them. So to run one cetnral power supply to power all radios How will you remote reboot them? And what will you do if the main Power supply fails? I'd only recommend doing a shared power supply if it was redundant with a ready to go spare (two units onsite). As well, you then need to convert to a DC based reboot device, and put the relays (or it) inline with the power to the POE. Digital logger also makes a DC based model, with screw down panels. This device could be your method to combine the DC power. However not positive but this model might be 24V. http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html . I think Alvarions are 54-56V. Side note some of the old MEtrocom installs had used 54V powersupply power plants. You might be able to find them used cheap. I know we had picked up a few. (but didn;t have 54V gear) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this? Thank You, Cameron Kilton WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Chuck...WE may not cross subsidize, but I bet it would be hard convince all of us that others don't. On 10/9/08 11:35 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are still forbidden to cross subsidize. - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago. The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700 Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea :-). Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry. I can't fault him (too much) for that. I wish I were in a similar situation. My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage. A huge one at that. marlon - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far, I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore posted mindless babble Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not right in the head... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: It is a cost recovery mechanism. I got audited by USAC this year to prove that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. But think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers. --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Cliff LeBoeuf 985-879-3219 www.cssla.com www.triparish.net This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
I have got to put a plug in for the SuperRMS. We just installed our second unit. Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you want). Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful. Also has temperature, voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/ Tom DeReggi wrote: There are three questions that come up... 1) Redundancy 2) minimizing impact of failure 3) Ability to remote reboot. We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above reasons. The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot device. If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS for $15. And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger. Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower, or way up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devices, and power them. So to run one cetnral power supply to power all radios How will you remote reboot them? And what will you do if the main Power supply fails? I'd only recommend doing a shared power supply if it was redundant with a ready to go spare (two units onsite). As well, you then need to convert to a DC based reboot device, and put the relays (or it) inline with the power to the POE. Digital logger also makes a DC based model, with screw down panels. This device could be your method to combine the DC power. However not positive but this model might be 24V. http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html . I think Alvarions are 54-56V. Side note some of the old MEtrocom installs had used 54V powersupply power plants. You might be able to find them used cheap. I know we had picked up a few. (but didn;t have 54V gear) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this? Thank You, Cameron Kilton WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I am an avid ATT long lines historian. ATT made lots of federal money. Cost plus. Thats how most of it worked. I own some of the big ATT junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc, as well as many repeater sites. Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their construction in that manner. Cost plus. Where ATT really made their money is buying lots of what went into those sites from their subsidiaries. Cost plus. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
Yes, the first place to start is to determine the Alvarion specs. 1) Max power or amperage draw from the Alvarion VLs, and 2) min and max Voltage tolerance. I don;t have that answer for you. But please share it, when you find out :-) The general rule is, you can make a combine POE system to serve identical distances as standalone POE systems. But you still ahve to do the math for stnadalone POE system. For example, You can take a 48V POE up 500 feet easilly, to deliver JUST POWER. But data will never go that high. If you had to serve height beyond Ethernet POE specs, you'd then need to do the Power extraction up in a NEMA box on the tower. Again, we did not do it with Alvarion, but the way we did it was We took standard standalone POE injectors (ones without integrated PS). Valemount Injectors that are black, square, one led, and sell for about $5-$7. This allowed us to have circuit board connecting both Ether jacks for reliability. These models allowed a wiretie to fit between the PS jack and the CAT5 plug, so it could be asilly secured and easilly individually untied in the field. We put one extra one inline for hot spare. Now, we were doing 24v, so You need to confirm the injectors that you selected allowed voltage level for Alvarion. I know the little white half moons, can do 48V no problem. If the standard 802.11 pin-out isn;t what Alvarion uses, then compensate with the pin-out of the Plug crimping on. We then laid them side by side mounted flat to a plywood strip. We actually just screwed the Strip to the rack, because we cut it to reach 19 rack. It could also be glued to a Nema Box back, with construction plywood roof glue. We cut the height of the strip about 6 inches, so we had 2 inched on top and bottom to Staple patch cable in place, with it still having room to unplug. IN one case we used screw in eye hooks, and then just strapped the cable to the eye hook for strain relief. We then took standard two strand wire and soldered the round plugs to them (the kind that the standard POE required). We then took two of those standard screw down DC bus bars (can be ordered from any electrician or electronic store) with like 8-12 screws on thems, and labeled them - and +. Then of course screwed down the wires to them. (Just as easilly we could have soldered the eight wires togeather, so all the cables were like a 8 cable bundled single unit.) We then Used a thicker guage wire, I think it was 16-18 guage and ran that from the Bud Bar to our dedicated power supply. (Many power supply types available). Whether it works is just doing the math of cable Voltage loss, and how much amperage the cable can take. See AWG chart attached. Also see POE calculater at http://www.demarctech.com/techsupport/poecalculate.htm Its importnat to remember that the Voltage loss is different based on the amperage that is occuring at the time, so you don;t want to over power voltage to compensate for the loss, to the extent that an inactive radio would be delviered voltage greater than the radio could accept. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount All of your questions Tom are important and have taken those into consideration. Right now, I just want to figure out if anybody has done it and how. We have made a POE system that puts out 48volt and it works on the bench with VL units, but when there is a significant cable run it stops working, I guess the important thing to find out is what is the minimum and maximum voltage that can be sent to a Alvarion VL or B radio? -Cameron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount I have got to put a plug in for the SuperRMS. We just installed our second unit. Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you want). Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful. Also has temperature, voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/ Tom DeReggi wrote: There are three questions that come up... 1) Redundancy 2) minimizing impact of failure 3) Ability to remote reboot. We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above reasons. The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot device. If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS for $15. And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger. Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower, or way up the tower, its one standard method to remote access
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
http://www.cablesandkits.com/cisco-3500-series-port-poe-switch-wsc3524pwrxlen-p-869.html How about one of these puppies? Someone on the star forums said they used a cisco 3500 poe switch and it fired up a 48v wp188 board. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
Iirc alvarion vl are 55 vdc Gino -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:42 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount Yes, the first place to start is to determine the Alvarion specs. 1) Max power or amperage draw from the Alvarion VLs, and 2) min and max Voltage tolerance. I don;t have that answer for you. But please share it, when you find out :-) The general rule is, you can make a combine POE system to serve identical distances as standalone POE systems. But you still ahve to do the math for stnadalone POE system. For example, You can take a 48V POE up 500 feet easilly, to deliver JUST POWER. But data will never go that high. If you had to serve height beyond Ethernet POE specs, you'd then need to do the Power extraction up in a NEMA box on the tower. Again, we did not do it with Alvarion, but the way we did it was We took standard standalone POE injectors (ones without integrated PS). Valemount Injectors that are black, square, one led, and sell for about $5-$7. This allowed us to have circuit board connecting both Ether jacks for reliability. These models allowed a wiretie to fit between the PS jack and the CAT5 plug, so it could be asilly secured and easilly individually untied in the field. We put one extra one inline for hot spare. Now, we were doing 24v, so You need to confirm the injectors that you selected allowed voltage level for Alvarion. I know the little white half moons, can do 48V no problem. If the standard 802.11 pin-out isn;t what Alvarion uses, then compensate with the pin-out of the Plug crimping on. We then laid them side by side mounted flat to a plywood strip. We actually just screwed the Strip to the rack, because we cut it to reach 19 rack. It could also be glued to a Nema Box back, with construction plywood roof glue. We cut the height of the strip about 6 inches, so we had 2 inched on top and bottom to Staple patch cable in place, with it still having room to unplug. IN one case we used screw in eye hooks, and then just strapped the cable to the eye hook for strain relief. We then took standard two strand wire and soldered the round plugs to them (the kind that the standard POE required). We then took two of those standard screw down DC bus bars (can be ordered from any electrician or electronic store) with like 8-12 screws on thems, and labeled them - and +. Then of course screwed down the wires to them. (Just as easilly we could have soldered the eight wires togeather, so all the cables were like a 8 cable bundled single unit.) We then Used a thicker guage wire, I think it was 16-18 guage and ran that from the Bud Bar to our dedicated power supply. (Many power supply types available). Whether it works is just doing the math of cable Voltage loss, and how much amperage the cable can take. See AWG chart attached. Also see POE calculater at http://www.demarctech.com/techsupport/poecalculate.htm Its importnat to remember that the Voltage loss is different based on the amperage that is occuring at the time, so you don;t want to over power voltage to compensate for the loss, to the extent that an inactive radio would be delviered voltage greater than the radio could accept. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount All of your questions Tom are important and have taken those into consideration. Right now, I just want to figure out if anybody has done it and how. We have made a POE system that puts out 48volt and it works on the bench with VL units, but when there is a significant cable run it stops working, I guess the important thing to find out is what is the minimum and maximum voltage that can be sent to a Alvarion VL or B radio? -Cameron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount I have got to put a plug in for the SuperRMS. We just installed our second unit. Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you want). Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful. Also has temperature, voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/ Tom DeReggi wrote: There are three questions that come up... 1) Redundancy 2) minimizing impact of failure 3) Ability to remote reboot. We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above reasons. The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot device. If a PS fails, only one radio dies,
[WISPA] Done loving this thread
True, ATT and the department of defense were best buddies. I remember HVAC systems in the TD-2 microwave systems that kept heaters and airconditioners running all year long so they could simply mix the air to get the temp they wanted. Gold plated system. But it was a good system. Part of the justification for divestiture and deregulation was that the majority of America (using ATT) had bought and paid for the system several times over so it really was a quazi public property. So they did a reverse privatization. And now we all have the system we have. I like it better than back in the old Ma Bell days. If Western Electric didn't make it, you didn't need it. So it got broke up and competition was supposed to flourish etc etc. They are still experimenting. Part of the problem is that the S in USF is still defined as POTS on copper. Our company is personally sponsoring a bill in our legislature that expands that to broadband. Look for an FCC ruling in November that may change the rules for all of us. - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I am an avid ATT long lines historian. ATT made lots of federal money. Cost plus. Thats how most of it worked. I own some of the big ATT junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc, as well as many repeater sites. Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their construction in that manner. Cost plus. Where ATT really made their money is buying lots of what went into those sites from their subsidiaries. Cost plus. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax.
[WISPA] ISPs in US
Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States? Or a site I can go find this out? Thanks. Mario WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US
Matt Larsen's WISP Directory http://www.wispdirectory.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Pommier Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] ISPs in US Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States? Or a site I can go find this out? Thanks. Mario WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Testing radio cards
Is there a good way to test how a radio card is performing? I have several mini-PCI radios, XR2, CM-9, etc, that I need to determine if they are performing to specification. They are in the office on the bench. Mark McElvy AccuBak Data Systems, Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US
There had been numerous counts in excess of 7000, and some counts as high as 10,000. That was before we were counting WISPs. I have no idea where this is recorded factually. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mario Pommier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] ISPs in US Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States? Or a site I can go find this out? Thanks. Mario WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US
Tom DeReggi wrote: There had been numerous counts in excess of 7000, and some counts as high as 10,000. That was before we were counting WISPs. I have no idea where this is recorded factually. Heck, before you can even count ISPs you have to define ISP. Depending on how picky you want to get, folks using services like Speakeasy's Netshare (basically, you get service from Speakeasy, resell it, they do the billing, you do the tech support) might be considered as people operating an ISP. WISPs? Cable? DSL? Dial-up? It just gets more confusing from there. Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States? Or a site I can go find this out? Thanks. What are you hoping to do with the information? If we can narrow the question down a bit, maybe we can find a better way to answer it. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Vox makes Press Release
http://www.wispa.org/?p=284 Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Any Optigold Experts Out there
I know you're hiding somewhere... Ping me offlist -Charles Charles Wu President [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 773-457-0718 * office: 773-667-4585 x2500 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 * tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 3:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news? Jeff, Hit me offlist. I would like to continue our talk about the CC processing. Thanks! John On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Jeff Ehman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WiNOG did have the Wu Wu special 2 Parts Technical Jargon 1 Part Credit Card Processing ON DISCOUNT :) Some humor for a great Wednesday afternoon -Jeff General Manager CTI (773) 667-4585 x2509 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news? WiMAX World was a bunch of mobile pipedream stuff with an emphasis on in the clouds technology roadmaps, haha. What most people got out of WiNOG was the ability to speak with other operators ACTUALLY deploying 3.65 gear. Can't really describe the good parts, except for getting Redline and Aperto's full attention for 2 days instead of being attacked by 300 vendors. I think everyone in our industry is aware of the benefit of 3.65 being open spectrum and the ability for high quality service due to WiMAX's QoS capabilities. Only time will tell with which manufacturer will win your hearts but the mobile stuff that WiMAX World spoke about is not it at this point. -Jeff General Manager CTI (773) 667-4585 x2509 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news? Well, lets hear it! I was unable to attend, even tough I really wanted! Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news? Nothing terribly exciting at WiMAX World WiNOG, on the other hand... grin -Charles Charles Wu President [EMAIL PROTECTED] cell: 773-457-0718 * office: 773-667-4585 x2500 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 * tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 773.326.4641 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Wimax world news? Any interesting news? -Original Message- From: Adam Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:33 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Radwin 2000 Hi, Has anyone heard of or used products by Radwin (www.radwin.com)? I understand they are releasing the Radwin 2000 series of 5.x GHz point-to-point links in the US in November. The price is very attractive. My main concern is performance reliability. We can test the performance within a short period of time, but not the reliability (would need to have the link up for a while to do that). We are considering these for a critical 2 mi. link. Thanks, Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586.
[WISPA] ISPCON Coming Up soon
ISPCON http://www.ispcon.com/ will be at San Jose on Nov. 11 and 12th. The WISPA reception will be at 6:30 on Tuesday evening, Nov. 11th. We would like to get an idea how many WISPs and Vendors will be attending for catering estimations and other logistical scheduling. If you plan to go to ISPCON, please speak up or email me offlist. We are looking for WISPA members to volunteer to work in the WISPA booth of 2 hour shifts on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. If you are willing to volunteer some time, we would appreciate it. It is a great way to meet a lot of other WISPs and vendors in a comfortable manner. RSVP if you are willing to help. Thank you, Rick Harnish WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks
I'm looking for info on differences between layer 2 and layer 3 mesh networks. From what I can tell, it's something like the following: layer 2: manageable via IP address, but you really only control the PHY/DATA link layer stuff (channels, 802.1Q VLAN tagging, 802.11e, etc) layer 3: some other controller uses some sort of layer 3-ish protocol (e.g. LWAPP) to talk to the access points and manage the PHY/DATA link layer stuff. Is this an accurate description? Or am I missing something? Also, which is better? Is either categorically better? Or do different environments lend themselves to one solution or the other? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks
Wow. I'm in a presentation on that right now. Haha Ill send a copy of the slides when I have them. --Original Message-- From: Rogelio Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks Sent: Oct 9, 2008 8:53 PM I'm looking for info on differences between layer 2 and layer 3 mesh networks. From what I can tell, it's something like the following: layer 2: manageable via IP address, but you really only control the PHY/DATA link layer stuff (channels, 802.1Q VLAN tagging, 802.11e, etc) layer 3: some other controller uses some sort of layer 3-ish protocol (e.g. LWAPP) to talk to the access points and manage the PHY/DATA link layer stuff. Is this an accurate description? Or am I missing something? Also, which is better? Is either categorically better? Or do different environments lend themselves to one solution or the other? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Charles Wyble (818)280-7059 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I thought Lyons sounded familiar... a coax route went from a facility near here to that facility. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via tellular units. Western Wireless built a business plan around tapping the USF for all it could get. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
Lyons was one of the power feed stations. Very cool place. It is now in private ownership - a telephone collector owns it. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I thought Lyons sounded familiar... a coax route went from a facility near here to that facility. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most of this money is from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers. It is revenue pooling and re-distribution. So, lets back off the misuse by telephone company tone of this discussion. If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the local networking and ISP companies. That is the major source of the misuse. The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to rural customers via
Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!
I've been through the Lee, IL site now owned by Terry Michaels. Nice place. I haven't been there in a few years, though. He's got quite a write up on that one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Blake Bowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:12 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Lyons was one of the power feed stations. Very cool place. It is now in private ownership - a telephone collector owns it. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I thought Lyons sounded familiar... a coax route went from a facility near here to that facility. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of ATT Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a little with a small community homeland security radio project, ATT had the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was working for that had this contract had bid against ATT to get it. If the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost. Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote: The phone system was not developed by tax dollars. It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire pole lines by himself. He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his system. A program that serves as a profit center for the us government. You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower through money that flows from that program to the general fund. Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by taxes? When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old ATT. How was the phone system developed by tax dollars? 120 years ago there was a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same city. Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax it. But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Chuck, so your definition of a tax is if you are forced to pay? Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am I really off base here? -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office. Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise. You do not have to participate. Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program. That is not a tax. - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of goods and services of E-rate funded projects. The audits have not shown any telephone company to be misusing this money. And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money. Most
