Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
I have 10 in the $650-700 range. Business voip is the key. It's been an easy sell. Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2010, at 10:56 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" wrote: > I'm pushing 700 subs nowadays. > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Jeremie Chism" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> You probably have lots of residential customers that make it worth >> while. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 5, 2010, at 9:56 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Oh man. That would be sooo cool! >>> >>> I think I have 1 or 2 customers over that amount Jeremie. My >>> average bill >>> is around $37.50. >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Jeremie Chism" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:41 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >>> >>> >>>> My typical customer has Internet and 4 phone lines. Low end revenue >>>> per customer runs 240 per month. I try to sell our service as a >>>> better >>>> alternative to cable or dsl. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. >>>>> >>>>> Insurance. >>>>> >>>>> Electricity. >>>>> >>>>> Labor. >>>>> >>>>> Head end hardware. >>>>> >>>>> etc. etc. etc. >>>>> >>>>> You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer >>>>> based on >>>>> the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. >>>>> >>>>> Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, >>>>> $10 in >>>>> infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 >>>>> per sub, >>>>> maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those >>>>> numbers. >>>>> >>>>> So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 >>>>> more >>>>> than the >>>>> average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on >>>>> the >>>>> sub. >>>>> >>>>> That make sense? >>>>> marlon >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - >>>>> From: "Mark Nash - Lists" >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, >>>>>> and when >>>>>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very >>>>>> hard, like >>>>>> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them >>>>>> login >>>>>> and >>>>>> check >>>>>> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily >>>>>> emails >>>>>> from >>>>>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their >>>>>> monthly >>>>>> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's >>>>>> still >>>>>> not >>>>>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and >>>>>> tracking >>>>>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with >>>>>> them >>>>>> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in >>>>>> additional >>>>>> revenue >>>>>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly >>>>>> limits. >>>>>> >>>>>> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We >>>>>> don't >>>>>
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
I'm pushing 700 subs nowadays. marlon - Original Message - From: "Jeremie Chism" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > You probably have lots of residential customers that make it worth > while. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 5, 2010, at 9:56 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" > wrote: > >> Oh man. That would be sooo cool! >> >> I think I have 1 or 2 customers over that amount Jeremie. My >> average bill >> is around $37.50. >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jeremie Chism" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >> >> >>> My typical customer has Internet and 4 phone lines. Low end revenue >>> per customer runs 240 per month. I try to sell our service as a >>> better >>> alternative to cable or dsl. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. >>>> >>>> Insurance. >>>> >>>> Electricity. >>>> >>>> Labor. >>>> >>>> Head end hardware. >>>> >>>> etc. etc. etc. >>>> >>>> You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer >>>> based on >>>> the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. >>>> >>>> Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in >>>> infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 >>>> per sub, >>>> maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those >>>> numbers. >>>> >>>> So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more >>>> than the >>>> average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the >>>> sub. >>>> >>>> That make sense? >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: "Mark Nash - Lists" >>>> To: "WISPA General List" >>>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >>>> >>>> >>>>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, >>>>> and when >>>>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very >>>>> hard, like >>>>> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login >>>>> and >>>>> check >>>>> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails >>>>> from >>>>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their >>>>> monthly >>>>> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >>>>> >>>>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still >>>>> not >>>>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and >>>>> tracking >>>>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with >>>>> them >>>>> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in >>>>> additional >>>>> revenue >>>>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly >>>>> limits. >>>>> >>>>> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't >>>>> currently >>>>> have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, >>>>> though... >>>>> abusers are home users. >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very >>>>> much. >>>>> We >>>>> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. >>>>> >>>>> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds >>>>> should >>>>> be from our network engineer this morning. This is his >>>>> response. In >>>>> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, >>>>> not >>>
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
You probably have lots of residential customers that make it worth while. Sent from my iPhone On May 5, 2010, at 9:56 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" wrote: > Oh man. That would be sooo cool! > > I think I have 1 or 2 customers over that amount Jeremie. My > average bill > is around $37.50. > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Jeremie Chism" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:41 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> My typical customer has Internet and 4 phone lines. Low end revenue >> per customer runs 240 per month. I try to sell our service as a >> better >> alternative to cable or dsl. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" >> wrote: >> >>> You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. >>> >>> Insurance. >>> >>> Electricity. >>> >>> Labor. >>> >>> Head end hardware. >>> >>> etc. etc. etc. >>> >>> You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer >>> based on >>> the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. >>> >>> Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in >>> infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 >>> per sub, >>> maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those >>> numbers. >>> >>> So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more >>> than the >>> average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the >>> sub. >>> >>> That make sense? >>> marlon >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Mark Nash - Lists" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >>> >>> >>>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, >>>> and when >>>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very >>>> hard, like >>>> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login >>>> and >>>> check >>>> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails >>>> from >>>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their >>>> monthly >>>> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >>>> >>>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still >>>> not >>>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and >>>> tracking >>>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with >>>> them >>>> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in >>>> additional >>>> revenue >>>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly >>>> limits. >>>> >>>> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't >>>> currently >>>> have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, >>>> though... >>>> abusers are home users. >>>> >>>> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very >>>> much. >>>> We >>>> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. >>>> >>>> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds >>>> should >>>> be from our network engineer this morning. This is his >>>> response. In >>>> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, >>>> not >>>> $200. >>>> The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing >>>> business >>>> (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of >>>> actual cost >>>> on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY >>>> for >>>> bandwidth ourselves). >>>> >>>> Justin's response: >>>> ** >>>> If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up >>>> with >>>> a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. >>>> the >
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
Oh man. That would be sooo cool! I think I have 1 or 2 customers over that amount Jeremie. My average bill is around $37.50. marlon - Original Message - From: "Jeremie Chism" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > My typical customer has Internet and 4 phone lines. Low end revenue > per customer runs 240 per month. I try to sell our service as a better > alternative to cable or dsl. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" > wrote: > >> You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. >> >> Insurance. >> >> Electricity. >> >> Labor. >> >> Head end hardware. >> >> etc. etc. etc. >> >> You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer >> based on >> the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. >> >> Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in >> infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 >> per sub, >> maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those >> numbers. >> >> So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more >> than the >> average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the >> sub. >> >> That make sense? >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Mark Nash - Lists" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >> >> >>> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, >>> and when >>> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very >>> hard, like >>> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login >>> and >>> check >>> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails >>> from >>> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their >>> monthly >>> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >>> >>> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still >>> not >>> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and >>> tracking >>> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them >>> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional >>> revenue >>> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly >>> limits. >>> >>> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't >>> currently >>> have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, >>> though... >>> abusers are home users. >>> >>> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very >>> much. >>> We >>> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. >>> >>> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds >>> should >>> be from our network engineer this morning. This is his response. In >>> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, >>> not >>> $200. >>> The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business >>> (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of >>> actual cost >>> on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for >>> bandwidth ourselves). >>> >>> Justin's response: >>> ** >>> If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up >>> with >>> a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. >>> the >>> price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee >>> that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24 >>> hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You >>> gave me >>> a figure of about $200 per megabit. >>> >>> I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I >>> took >>> the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could >>> consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24 >>> hours straight. I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I >>> then compared the "difference" in value,
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
I use it and like it. On 4/30/10, Mark Dueck wrote: > How is your experience with Powercode? I once considered putting in > Powercode, but it looked to be a little used product, so decided against it. > > On 04/30/2010 10:24 AM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote: >> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and when >> >> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like >> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and >> check >> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails from >> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly >> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >> >> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not >> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking >> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them >> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional >> revenue >> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits. >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
How is your experience with Powercode? I once considered putting in Powercode, but it looked to be a little used product, so decided against it. On 04/30/2010 10:24 AM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote: > We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and when > the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like > 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and check > their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails from > their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly > usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. > > Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not > 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking > has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them > appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional revenue > as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits. > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
Just downloaded the usage report into Excel... About 1/3 of our users go 5gigs & above. It goes sharply up after that. The Powercode report shows upload usage, download usage, total usage, and upload-to-download ratio. You can usually catch the virus users or p2p-ers by checking the upload-to-download ratio. We sell 1 to 3 meg burstable connections as our primary product, both business and residential versions (higher price, priority support, etc) Beyond 3 megs, everything is custom and is generally $100/meg burstable, $200/meg dedicated. This pricing allows us to account for those really high-end need users who need the bandwidth and can't accept being limited. - Original Message - From: "Paul Gerstenberger" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > This isn't totally accurate as it's a monthly report and some users have > been converted mid-month, but the average download I'm seeing is 5.7Gb. > Our heaviest user did 105GB, and one recent conversion is on track to hit > 200GB if the last weeks trend continues! About two thirds exceeded 10GB. > > I think most of those > 10GB are running netflix. > > -Paul > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >> Our average customer does about 4 gigs per month. That's average, >> including >> servers and high end business customers. Someday I'll count the >> businesses >> different from the residential :-). >> >> We give 10 gigs per month and charge $5 per gig for overages. >> >> We've lost a few customers due to this, but nearly all of them want to >> run >> file sharing servers and/or run netflix. In short, the ones we're >> loosing >> cost more than they are paying us. >> >> The good news is that the other 95% of the customer base get GREAT >> service >> at a reasonable price and are very happy. >> >> We also catch a LOT of infected machines or open wifi routers this way. >> Most customers appreciate that we're watching out for them. >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Paul Gerstenberger" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM >> Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >> >> >>> We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through >>> Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage >>> I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms >>> of >>> service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other >>> WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and >>> what >>> penalties or deterrents are used. >>> >>> -Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
That was backwards actually, about one third exceeds 10GB. Still have nine hundred customers to convert to PPPoE, one by one... Oh joy. -Paul On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Paul Gerstenberger wrote: > This isn't totally accurate as it's a monthly report and some users have been > converted mid-month, but the average download I'm seeing is 5.7Gb. Our > heaviest user did 105GB, and one recent conversion is on track to hit 200GB > if the last weeks trend continues! About two thirds exceeded 10GB. > > I think most of those > 10GB are running netflix. > > -Paul > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >> Our average customer does about 4 gigs per month. That's average, including >> servers and high end business customers. Someday I'll count the businesses >> different from the residential :-). >> >> We give 10 gigs per month and charge $5 per gig for overages. >> >> We've lost a few customers due to this, but nearly all of them want to run >> file sharing servers and/or run netflix. In short, the ones we're loosing >> cost more than they are paying us. >> >> The good news is that the other 95% of the customer base get GREAT service >> at a reasonable price and are very happy. >> >> We also catch a LOT of infected machines or open wifi routers this way. >> Most customers appreciate that we're watching out for them. >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Paul Gerstenberger" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM >> Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties >> >> >>> We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through >>> Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage >>> I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of >>> service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other >>> WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what >>> penalties or deterrents are used. >>> >>> -Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
One way of looking at overage is an extra source of revenue. So long as you are not lossing mony on it and the customer is aware of the monthly limits. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
My typical customer has Internet and 4 phone lines. Low end revenue per customer runs 240 per month. I try to sell our service as a better alternative to cable or dsl. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2010, at 11:48 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer" wrote: > You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. > > Insurance. > > Electricity. > > Labor. > > Head end hardware. > > etc. etc. etc. > > You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer > based on > the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. > > Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in > infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 > per sub, > maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those > numbers. > > So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more > than the > average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the > sub. > > That make sense? > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Mark Nash - Lists" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, >> and when >> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very >> hard, like >> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login >> and >> check >> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails >> from >> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their >> monthly >> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >> >> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still >> not >> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and >> tracking >> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them >> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional >> revenue >> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly >> limits. >> >> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't >> currently >> have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, >> though... >> abusers are home users. >> >> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very >> much. >> We >> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. >> >> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds >> should >> be from our network engineer this morning. This is his response. In >> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, >> not >> $200. >> The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business >> (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of >> actual cost >> on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for >> bandwidth ourselves). >> >> Justin's response: >> ** >> If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up >> with >> a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. >> the >> price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee >> that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24 >> hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You >> gave me >> a figure of about $200 per megabit. >> >> I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I >> took >> the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could >> consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24 >> hours straight. I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I >> then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that >> was >> at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum >> amount of >> bandwidth allowed. >> >> Example. A "$400/m" 1Mbps customer "resold" could theoretically >> consume >> 10.8GB/day or about 330GB/month >> A $49/m 1.5Mbps customer could theoretically consume 16.2GB/day or >> 494GB/month >> >> I then determined what the equivalent maximum amount of bandwidth we >> would be reselling a normal customer to if they were paying only >> $49 per >> month, which is a lot easier - you just take our profit figure of >> $400/m >> and divide it by $49
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
This isn't totally accurate as it's a monthly report and some users have been converted mid-month, but the average download I'm seeing is 5.7Gb. Our heaviest user did 105GB, and one recent conversion is on track to hit 200GB if the last weeks trend continues! About two thirds exceeded 10GB. I think most of those > 10GB are running netflix. -Paul On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Our average customer does about 4 gigs per month. That's average, including > servers and high end business customers. Someday I'll count the businesses > different from the residential :-). > > We give 10 gigs per month and charge $5 per gig for overages. > > We've lost a few customers due to this, but nearly all of them want to run > file sharing servers and/or run netflix. In short, the ones we're loosing > cost more than they are paying us. > > The good news is that the other 95% of the customer base get GREAT service > at a reasonable price and are very happy. > > We also catch a LOT of infected machines or open wifi routers this way. > Most customers appreciate that we're watching out for them. > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Gerstenberger" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM > Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through >> Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage >> I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of >> service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other >> WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what >> penalties or deterrents are used. >> >> -Paul >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
Didn't forget those. Man do I know about those costs... I don't sign the checks anymore as I've delegated that, but I know they're there. Just didn't say them. We have about a $10-$12k cost per month for growth (dedicated installers, trucks, fuel, sales commissions, marketing, new equipment, expansion sites, etc). If we stopped growing, I could literally pocket 63% this money today (estimated tax payments). But we are growing, so it costs...but I've "sectioned" those costs away as "growth" costs. Everything else...every other expense...monthly & annual...from "building rent" to "replacing the microwave in the kitchen when it goes bad" gets packaged into the "cost to deliver bandwidth" category. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. > > Insurance. > > Electricity. > > Labor. > > Head end hardware. > > etc. etc. etc. > > You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer based on > the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. > > Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in > infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 per sub, > maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those > numbers. > > So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more than > the > average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the sub. > > That make sense? > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Mark Nash - Lists" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and >> when >> the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like >> 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and >> check >> their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails from >> their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly >> usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. >> >> Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not >> 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking >> has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them >> appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional >> revenue >> as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits. >> >> Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't >> currently >> have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, though... >> abusers are home users. >> >> Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very much. >> We >> have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. >> >> I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds >> should >> be from our network engineer this morning. This is his response. In >> looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, not >> $200. >> The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business >> (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of actual >> cost >> on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for >> bandwidth ourselves). >> >> Justin's response: >> ** >> If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up with >> a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. the >> price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee >> that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24 >> hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You gave me >> a figure of about $200 per megabit. >> >> I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I took >> the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could >> consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24 >> hours straight. I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I >> then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that was >> at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum amount of >> bandwidth allowed. >> >> Example. A &
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
You forgot some things in your number crunching Matt. Insurance. Electricity. Labor. Head end hardware. etc. etc. etc. You have to run the calcs on how much you can give your customer based on the ENTIRE cost per customer. Not just the cost per gig. Out here each customer costs us about $10 in office overhead, $10 in infrastructure and $10 in upstream/server costs. I keep about $5 per sub, maybe a bit more these days, we've about doubled since I ran those numbers. So you can REALLY only "afford" to give the customer $5 to $10 more than the average user or else you are actually loosing money, overall, on the sub. That make sense? marlon - Original Message - From: "Mark Nash - Lists" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and when > the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like > 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and > check > their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails from > their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly > usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. > > Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not > 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking > has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them > appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional > revenue > as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits. > > Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't > currently > have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, though... > abusers are home users. > > Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very much. > We > have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. > > I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds should > be from our network engineer this morning. This is his response. In > looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, not > $200. > The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business > (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of actual cost > on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for > bandwidth ourselves). > > Justin's response: > ** > If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up with > a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. the > price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee > that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24 > hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You gave me > a figure of about $200 per megabit. > > I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I took > the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could > consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24 > hours straight. I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I > then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that was > at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum amount of > bandwidth allowed. > > Example. A "$400/m" 1Mbps customer "resold" could theoretically consume > 10.8GB/day or about 330GB/month > A $49/m 1.5Mbps customer could theoretically consume 16.2GB/day or > 494GB/month > > I then determined what the equivalent maximum amount of bandwidth we > would be reselling a normal customer to if they were paying only $49 per > month, which is a lot easier - you just take our profit figure of $400/m > and divide it by $49 to get roughly 4, so 1/4th of 1.5Mbps which is just > about 384kbps. Then I determined what is the maximum amount of bandwidth > a 384kbps customer could consume. You get about 1.44Gb per day, or > about 44GB/month. > > I knocked off a further 10% to give us a nice round ceiling, producing a > final figure of 40GB/month for a 1.5Mbps customer as the maximum > bandwidth they could be allowed to consume before they started hitting > the falling point of the curve for bandwidth cost. Because I initially > doubled our $200 cost to say that bandwidth, per megabit, costs us > $400/m, we're comfortably padded. > ** > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Gerstenberger" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM > Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > > >> We have abo
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
Our average customer does about 4 gigs per month. That's average, including servers and high end business customers. Someday I'll count the businesses different from the residential :-). We give 10 gigs per month and charge $5 per gig for overages. We've lost a few customers due to this, but nearly all of them want to run file sharing servers and/or run netflix. In short, the ones we're loosing cost more than they are paying us. The good news is that the other 95% of the customer base get GREAT service at a reasonable price and are very happy. We also catch a LOT of infected machines or open wifi routers this way. Most customers appreciate that we're watching out for them. marlon - Original Message - From: "Paul Gerstenberger" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through > Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage > I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of > service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other > WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what > penalties or deterrents are used. > > -Paul > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
We use Powercode to shape bandwidth and to track bandwidth usage, and when the customer goes over the limit, they are throttled down very hard, like 64k. Powercode has a Customer Portal feature that lets them login and check their usage any time they want. Also, they can set up daily emails from their Portal so that they can get an email each day about their monthly usage. We have about 20 customers that do this. Took us a while to get the Powercode system to work, and it's still not 100%, but I would say that putting in these usage thresholds and tracking has helped us identify who our heavy users are and to deal with them appropriately. Doing this has generated about $500/mo in additional revenue as customers move up to higher speed packages with higher monthly limits. Business clients, at this time, are handled differently. We don't currently have bandwidth limits on them. May in the future. Generally, though... abusers are home users. Keep in mind that our niche is rural, not competing "in town" very much. We have higher bandwidth packages with higher usage thresholds. I asked for a refresher about how we determined what our thresholds should be from our network engineer this morning. This is his response. In looking at it, figure that we are actually paying $45 per megabit, not $200. The $200 per megabit figure comes in with the cost of doing business (personnel, backhauls, maintenance, etc, and is an estimate of actual cost on what it takes to DELIVER bandwidth to a customer, not just PAY for bandwidth ourselves). Justin's response: ** If you remember, the way I did it was this. I asked you to come up with a raw figure, in dollars/month, that our bandwidth costs us - i.e. the price point at which you could sell bandwidth wholesale and guarantee that we would still make a profit, even if it was fully saturated 24 hours a day (excluding factors such as backhaul saturation). You gave me a figure of about $200 per megabit. I fully doubled that to $400 per megabit, and started from there. I took the amount of maximum theoretical bandwidth a 1.5Mb customer could consume in a given month, if they were somehow able to use it for 24 hours straight. I did the same for our base rate of 1Mbp/s @ $400. I then compared the "difference" in value, and chose a MB figure that was at about 50% of what our actual "cost" would be as the maximum amount of bandwidth allowed. Example. A "$400/m" 1Mbps customer "resold" could theoretically consume 10.8GB/day or about 330GB/month A $49/m 1.5Mbps customer could theoretically consume 16.2GB/day or 494GB/month I then determined what the equivalent maximum amount of bandwidth we would be reselling a normal customer to if they were paying only $49 per month, which is a lot easier - you just take our profit figure of $400/m and divide it by $49 to get roughly 4, so 1/4th of 1.5Mbps which is just about 384kbps. Then I determined what is the maximum amount of bandwidth a 384kbps customer could consume. You get about 1.44Gb per day, or about 44GB/month. I knocked off a further 10% to give us a nice round ceiling, producing a final figure of 40GB/month for a 1.5Mbps customer as the maximum bandwidth they could be allowed to consume before they started hitting the falling point of the curve for bandwidth cost. Because I initially doubled our $200 cost to say that bandwidth, per megabit, costs us $400/m, we're comfortably padded. ** - Original Message - From: "Paul Gerstenberger" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:06 AM Subject: [WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties > We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through > Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage > I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of > service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other > WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what > penalties or deterrents are used. > > -Paul > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Overage thresholds and penalties
We have about 15% of our existing subscribers running PPPoE through Mikrotik now, using the User Manager package. I'm astounded by the usage I'm seeing from some accounts. We do cite "acceptable use" in our terms of service, but we've rarely enforced it. I'm curious what approach other WISPs take: how you determine your own acceptable use thresholds and what penalties or deterrents are used. -Paul WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
