[WISPA] Water tower contracts
Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
And where is the members only section? There's not just a link.. Chris - Original Message - From: Glenn Kelley To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
And I guess I kept overlooking the wiki Chris - Original Message - From: Glenn Kelley To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
I have a water guy for the town that's concerned about maintenance issues?? I plan to attach pipe to the railing around the fat part of the tower, so there shouldn't be anything major. Chris - Original Message - From: Chris Hudson To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts And I guess I kept overlooking the wiki Chris - Original Message - From: Glenn Kelley To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
that at least is an easier fight than the guy who thinks your units will turn their water green ;-) On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: I have a water guy for the town that's concerned about maintenance issues?? I plan to attach pipe to the railing around the fat part of the tower, so there shouldn't be anything major. Chris - Original Message - From: Chris Hudson To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts And I guess I kept overlooking the wiki Chris - Original Message - From: Glenn Kelley To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts
LOL, in that case, tell them is does reverse osmosis :) Seriously, they just want to be sure your not going to hurt that expensive tank or cause trouble. Do the following: 1) See if they already have EMA or Ham antennas on the tank. This may alleviate their concerns. (Make friends with hams!) 2) Show them your insurance coverage. 3) Guarantee you wont drill or weld on the tank. Only use non-penetrating attachments. 4) Show them experience on previous tanks. 5) Have a proper contract outlining all terms. 6) Offer to provide telemetry over IP. 7) I'm sure there are more to add but this is off the top of my head and its a holiday weekend! Have a good one! -RickG On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: that at least is an easier fight than the guy who thinks your units will turn their water green ;-) On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:18 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: I have a water guy for the town that's concerned about maintenance issues?? I plan to attach pipe to the railing around the fat part of the tower, so there shouldn't be anything major. Chris - Original Message - *From:* Chris Hudson ch...@htswireless.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:12 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts And I guess I kept overlooking the wiki Chris - Original Message - *From:* Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, October 09, 2010 3:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Water tower contracts I believe they are in the members only section On Oct 9, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Chris Hudson wrote: Is there somewhere on the WISPA site the has some sample contracts? I'm not having much luck. OR does anyone have one I could adapt. Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Water Tower grounding
Ok, since we have been talking grounding, what would be the proper grounding method for a 'typical' water tower (bowl with maintenance rail and ladder up the leg). I have a Canopy 900 AP with a vertical antenna mounted at the top using shielded CAT5 routed down the bowl and ladder. There is a NEMA at the bottom where the CMM-3 is located with a #10 wire to the ground rod at the bottom of the NEMA. I am 'feeding' this tower APs during the spring/summer stormy months. Are there any better methods to grounding this setup? Thanks in advance, Bobby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding
I'm not sure how others might answer this, but here goes. Unless water towers are constructed differently than those I have dealt with, they are by nature a solidly grounded structure. Having said that, the only problem I would see is having any ungrounded metal on the side of that tower which could build up excess electrons and create a streamer towards the clouds and invite a strike. I have never looked at a Canopy 900. Does it have a ground lug? If so I would take that right to a bare metal spot on the tower. Make sure the antenna (external) is solidly grounded to the tower structure as close as you can accomplish. They typically use epoxy paint to paint such monsters, so you would have to check with the owners where they want you to ground, stressing you want the ground bonded as close to your equipment as possible. I would put the equipment on a standoff away from the tower if possible. They will have to paint the tower again during the lifetime of your equipment. I hope some of this helps. Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bobby Burrow Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding Ok, since we have been talking grounding, what would be the proper grounding method for a 'typical' water tower (bowl with maintenance rail and ladder up the leg). I have a Canopy 900 AP with a vertical antenna mounted at the top using shielded CAT5 routed down the bowl and ladder. There is a NEMA at the bottom where the CMM-3 is located with a #10 wire to the ground rod at the bottom of the NEMA. I am 'feeding' this tower APs during the spring/summer stormy months. Are there any better methods to grounding this setup? Thanks in advance, Bobby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding
If you've put in your own ground rod and not bonded it to the electrical ground, then you're doing more harm than good. That will create a ground potential difference and smoke your equipment. You absolutely must have all the grounds tied together. I would make sure the water tower, your grounding and the utility ground are all bonded together. -Patrick From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Bobby Burrow Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 8:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding Ok, since we have been talking grounding, what would be the proper grounding method for a 'typical' water tower (bowl with maintenance rail and ladder up the leg). I have a Canopy 900 AP with a vertical antenna mounted at the top using shielded CAT5 routed down the bowl and ladder. There is a NEMA at the bottom where the CMM-3 is located with a #10 wire to the ground rod at the bottom of the NEMA. I am 'feeding' this tower APs during the spring/summer stormy months. Are there any better methods to grounding this setup? Thanks in advance, Bobby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding
Also, if you want to know proper grounding practices, try to get your hands on the Motorola R56 manual. I would imagine you can find the pdf floating on the web somewhere. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Patrick Wheeland Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding If you've put in your own ground rod and not bonded it to the electrical ground, then you're doing more harm than good. That will create a ground potential difference and smoke your equipment. You absolutely must have all the grounds tied together. I would make sure the water tower, your grounding and the utility ground are all bonded together. -Patrick From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Bobby Burrow Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 8:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding Ok, since we have been talking grounding, what would be the proper grounding method for a 'typical' water tower (bowl with maintenance rail and ladder up the leg). I have a Canopy 900 AP with a vertical antenna mounted at the top using shielded CAT5 routed down the bowl and ladder. There is a NEMA at the bottom where the CMM-3 is located with a #10 wire to the ground rod at the bottom of the NEMA. I am 'feeding' this tower APs during the spring/summer stormy months. Are there any better methods to grounding this setup? Thanks in advance, Bobby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding
I've only ever had one problem on a water tower and that was a direct strike to MY antenna, not the tower. I found the antenna on the ground, and all my radios were toast. That was before shielded cable made its way into my network. Cameron On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Patrick Wheeland p...@csinet.net wrote: Also, if you want to know proper grounding practices, try to get your hands on the Motorola R56 manual. I would imagine you can find the pdf floating on the web somewhere. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Patrick Wheeland Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 1:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding If you've put in your own ground rod and not bonded it to the electrical ground, then you're doing more harm than good. That will create a ground potential difference and smoke your equipment. You absolutely must have all the grounds tied together. I would make sure the water tower, your grounding and the utility ground are all bonded together. -Patrick From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Bobby Burrow Sent: Thu 7/29/2010 8:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower grounding Ok, since we have been talking grounding, what would be the proper grounding method for a 'typical' water tower (bowl with maintenance rail and ladder up the leg). I have a Canopy 900 AP with a vertical antenna mounted at the top using shielded CAT5 routed down the bowl and ladder. There is a NEMA at the bottom where the CMM-3 is located with a #10 wire to the ground rod at the bottom of the NEMA. I am 'feeding' this tower APs during the spring/summer stormy months. Are there any better methods to grounding this setup? Thanks in advance, Bobby WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
Interesting So then, I guess this brings up another issue. Could the Cellular company also be held liable? Could they have mounted their cabling a different way that would have better disappated heat or isolated their cabling from the tower, knowing that one day it might need welding maintenance? Or onsucg structures should a fire-retardent type cable be used? Lets use another example, if a WISP mounts his cable on a Chimney, and the home owner lights a fire Is the home owner or WISP responsible if the cable catches fire? I'd argue the WISP becaue they should ahve known that one day heat could be an issue that needed delt with. So taking the same logic, shouldn't the Cellular company have known the same? What are best practices for mounting Cable on Water Towers? How can law suits be avoided? Are they going to hold a WISP responsible for repainting the tower (with expensive epoxy paint), if they clamp and strap radios and cables to water tank legs and rails? Or is the secret to use an engineering company to certify the paln, and get the county to certify the engineer, so the Engineer would be responsible? Or should the county be responsible for letting the cellular cable up there, knowing that it could be a risk to welders? My point here is I'm not confident that just the welder was responsible. I would think there would have to be some sort of neglect proven. It would be interesting to see the outcome. It would also be interesting to see if a suit gets opened by the welders, arguing that teh welders were put in danger due to inadequate ventelation inside teh water tower, and against the cable company from not adequately isolating the cables from the tower? Who's authority is it to say what best practices are right, to prevent accidents? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) I do know that epoxy paint is very expensive. I got a quote for $26,000 to weld some brackets on the top of a tank just so I can mount my stuff. There is a lining inside the tank as well as the outside. If they have to repaint it, I bet $400k isn't even for the equipment and transmission lines. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
What actually caught on fire from the welder? If it was unsafe or unfit conditions, the welder should not have proceeded. The cause is the actions of the welder. On 5/16/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Interesting So then, I guess this brings up another issue. Could the Cellular company also be held liable? Could they have mounted their cabling a different way that would have better disappated heat or isolated their cabling from the tower, knowing that one day it might need welding maintenance? Or onsucg structures should a fire-retardent type cable be used? Lets use another example, if a WISP mounts his cable on a Chimney, and the home owner lights a fire Is the home owner or WISP responsible if the cable catches fire? I'd argue the WISP becaue they should ahve known that one day heat could be an issue that needed delt with. So taking the same logic, shouldn't the Cellular company have known the same? What are best practices for mounting Cable on Water Towers? How can law suits be avoided? Are they going to hold a WISP responsible for repainting the tower (with expensive epoxy paint), if they clamp and strap radios and cables to water tank legs and rails? Or is the secret to use an engineering company to certify the paln, and get the county to certify the engineer, so the Engineer would be responsible? Or should the county be responsible for letting the cellular cable up there, knowing that it could be a risk to welders? My point here is I'm not confident that just the welder was responsible. I would think there would have to be some sort of neglect proven. It would be interesting to see the outcome. It would also be interesting to see if a suit gets opened by the welders, arguing that teh welders were put in danger due to inadequate ventelation inside teh water tower, and against the cable company from not adequately isolating the cables from the tower? Who's authority is it to say what best practices are right, to prevent accidents? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) I do know that epoxy paint is very expensive. I got a quote for $26,000 to weld some brackets on the top of a tank just so I can mount my stuff. There is a lining inside the tank as well as the outside. If they have to repaint it, I bet $400k isn't even for the equipment and transmission lines. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
Tom, You raise an interesting and valid question about whether a tower (or tank) "Best Practices" should be followed by all cellular and WISP operators. Personally, I have to ask if perhaps this might just have been an "Act of Zod"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Zod jack Tom DeReggi wrote: Interesting So then, I guess this brings up another issue. Could the Cellular company also be held liable? Could they have mounted their cabling a different way that would have better disappated heat or isolated their cabling from the tower, knowing that one day it might need welding maintenance? Or onsucg structures should a fire-retardent type cable be used? Lets use another example, if a WISP mounts his cable on a Chimney, and the home owner lights a fire Is the home owner or WISP responsible if the cable catches fire? I'd argue the WISP becaue they should ahve known that one day heat could be an issue that needed delt with. So taking the same logic, shouldn't the Cellular company have known the same? What are best practices for mounting Cable on Water Towers? How can law suits be avoided? Are they going to hold a WISP responsible for repainting the tower (with expensive epoxy paint), if they clamp and strap radios and cables to water tank legs and rails? Or is the secret to use an engineering company to certify the paln, and get the county to certify the engineer, so the Engineer would be responsible? Or should the county be responsible for letting the cellular cable up there, knowing that it could be a risk to welders? My point here is I'm not confident that just the welder was responsible. I would think there would have to be some sort of neglect proven. It would be interesting to see the outcome. It would also be interesting to see if a suit gets opened by the welders, arguing that teh welders were put in danger due to inadequate ventelation inside teh water tower, and against the cable company from not adequately isolating the cables from the tower? Who's authority is it to say what best practices are right, to prevent accidents? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Eric Rogers" ecrog...@precisionds.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) I do know that epoxy paint is very expensive. I got a quote for $26,000 to weld some brackets on the top of a tank just so I can mount my stuff. There is a lining inside the tank as well as the outside. If they have to repaint it, I bet $400k isn't even for the equipment and transmission lines. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating "no structural damage". Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Blake Bowers" bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: "Broadcast Radio Mailing List" broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
This is why companies like American Tower, Spectrasite, and others have always required a structural engineering study. The engineers sign off on it, and you are supposed to install based up that plan. Sucks, but is a way of CYA. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 10:03:12 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Tom, You raise an interesting and valid question about whether a tower (or tank) Best Practices should be followed by all cellular and WISP operators. Personally, I have to ask if perhaps this might just have been an Act of Zod? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Zod jack Tom DeReggi wrote: Interesting So then, I guess this brings up another issue. Could the Cellular company also be held liable? Could they have mounted their cabling a different way that would have better disappated heat or isolated their cabling from the tower, knowing that one day it might need welding maintenance? Or onsucg structures should a fire-retardent type cable be used? Lets use another example, if a WISP mounts his cable on a Chimney, and the home owner lights a fire Is the home owner or WISP responsible if the cable catches fire? I'd argue the WISP becaue they should ahve known that one day heat could be an issue that needed delt with. So taking the same logic, shouldn't the Cellular company have known the same? What are best practices for mounting Cable on Water Towers? How can law suits be avoided? Are they going to hold a WISP responsible for repainting the tower (with expensive epoxy paint), if they clamp and strap radios and cables to water tank legs and rails? Or is the secret to use an engineering company to certify the paln, and get the county to certify the engineer, so the Engineer would be responsible? Or should the county be responsible for letting the cellular cable up there, knowing that it could be a risk to welders? My point here is I'm not confident that just the welder was responsible. I would think there would have to be some sort of neglect proven. It would be interesting to see the outcome. It would also be interesting to see if a suit gets opened by the welders, arguing that teh welders were put in danger due to inadequate ventelation inside teh water tower, and against the cable company from not adequately isolating the cables from the tower? Who's authority is it to say what best practices are right, to prevent accidents? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com mailto:ecrog...@precisionds.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) I do know that epoxy paint is very expensive. I got a quote for $26,000 to weld some brackets on the top of a tank just so I can mount my stuff. There is a lining inside the tank as well as the outside. If they have to repaint it, I bet $400k isn't even for the equipment and transmission lines. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com mailto:bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com mailto:tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net mailto:broadc...@radiolists.net ; towerown...@yahoogroups.com mailto:towerown...@yahoogroups.com ; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
[WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
I do know that epoxy paint is very expensive. I got a quote for $26,000 to weld some brackets on the top of a tank just so I can mount my stuff. There is a lining inside the tank as well as the outside. If they have to repaint it, I bet $400k isn't even for the equipment and transmission lines. Eric -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
It underscores the need for WISPs (or any business) to have insurance coverage! On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
I love irony. - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
2 Million bucks on this end and I still get nervous. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) It underscores the need for WISPs (or any business) to have insurance coverage! On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
Maron? ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 10:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) I love irony. - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
Pay for high rises...$5m umbrealla, minimum. ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 10:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) 2 Million bucks on this end and I still get nervous. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) It underscores the need for WISPs (or any business) to have insurance coverage! On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved)
I hear ya and respect every bit of that 5 mil. Bob- - Original Message - From: St. Louis Broadband li...@stlbroadband.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) Pay for high rises...$5m umbrealla, minimum. ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 10:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) 2 Million bucks on this end and I still get nervous. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) It underscores the need for WISPs (or any business) to have insurance coverage! On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Dahl said damage to the cables and paint on the tower is estimated at $400,000. Now thats funny. Talking about Gold diggin Munis, They must be planning on using Gold based paint and Gold plated cable to match. After stating no structural damage. Now if they were counting lost revenue for the Cell carrier's customers during the outage, well, then I'd understand it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com To: tower-...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Broadcast Radio Mailing List broadc...@radiolists.net; towerown...@yahoogroups.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:22 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower on fire! (With Cellular involved) http://www.channel3000.com/news/23558364/detail.html Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Water tower question
We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
Bring it down along the ladder? Just drop it all the way down then as you descend secure it? Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:14 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
run power and fiber up the side of the ladder or conduit that their power goes for the light on top. If you don't need connection below then just run power. Put box at top with equipment and 5 foot aluminum 1.5 or 2 inch pipes with two u-bolts each or pipe clamps depending on how you have to mount them. tape wires running around top to middle guard rail inside and you are good to go... put ups inside little hut or have box on outside with one. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:14 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
Ok, assuming there is no ladder (which would be odd) then they still have conduit already attached for lights at top. Run next to it. Only other option depending on your relationship with them is to put flasher circuit on top and use existing power already in conduit - that way your gear doesn't turn on and off every few sec ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:14 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
I forgot to add something VERY important - - The less you have touching anything of theirs the better off you will be in the future when it comes time for them to sandblast and paint!! Put your sectors standing off the handrails as far as possible using DB clamps and run your own conduit to attach your CAT5 to!! Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
On important thing I failed to mention, no ladder access from the outside of the tower. Ladder runs up the inside of the middle of the tower, all the way to the top and outside the top hatch, then down a ladder to the catwalk. If there was a ladder on one of the outside legs I wouldn't be asking the question :-) Got 4 other towers we're on that we don't have this issue with. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:43 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower question I forgot to add something VERY important - - The less you have touching anything of theirs the better off you will be in the future when it comes time for them to sandblast and paint!! Put your sectors standing off the handrails as far as possible using DB clamps and run your own conduit to attach your CAT5 to!! Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower question
Got SCUBA lol? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Jason Hensley jhens...@mozarks.com Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower question On important thing I failed to mention, no ladder access from the outside of the tower. Ladder runs up the inside of the middle of the tower, all the way to the top and outside the top hatch, then down a ladder to the catwalk. If there was a ladder on one of the outside legs I wouldn't be asking the question :-) Got 4 other towers we're on that we don't have this issue with. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:43 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water tower question I forgot to add something VERY important - - The less you have touching anything of theirs the better off you will be in the future when it comes time for them to sandblast and paint!! Put your sectors standing off the handrails as far as possible using DB clamps and run your own conduit to attach your CAT5 to!! Mac -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:13 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water tower question We've gotten access to two water towers that are what I call bubble towers. An example is here: http://www.watertowers.com/photos_314_Arboretum_Water_Tower.html Obviously we'll have to sector around it, etc etc, not worried about that. Question is, for anyone who has mounted on a tower like this, how do you get your cabling to the ground? Do you go down the legs or is there some other way to do it? Only way we've come up with is to either rappel down or talk the fire dept into helping with their ladder truck and bring the cables down one of the legs. Neither option is very attractive. Is there some other way to get the cabling down the tower? Thanks! --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.33/2120 - Release Date: 05/19/09 06:21:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower
$100 per month + $1 per household franchise fee. Franchise lasts for 20 years. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:37 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower $100 per month plus service to 1 city building per tower. Like Marlon, ours started out at $1500 per month too - had a consultant tell them it was worth that. They wouldn't go for the complete trade. $100/mth includes ground space if we decide to put up our own shelter or enclosure outside of their gates. We have trade with another public water district though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:05 PM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Those of you that are on water towers, what sort of agreements do you guys have with cities for their water towers and how much are you paying? I'm in negotiations with one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower
The Water Dept. Superintendent we work with allowed us to the same thing Marlon mentions: we give them service for X amount of sites and they allow us to place X amount of antennas. They get the same level of service all our business customers get. Mario Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: We are on two. We give them service at all city locations that they want it for. They buy the equipment (we're at a point where we could provide the hardware) needed. They also require a bit more insurance and they are listed as also insured. One of them started out at $1500 per month and 5 million for insurance. I told them that I'd love to do a better job of servicing the local area but I couldn't do it at that rate. We went over the expected customer base for me and cost factors. I reminded them of how important it is to have competition to the telco's DSL etc. I flat out told them that I was willing to do the work and invest the money to service the area, especially those outside of town. But that I'd need their help. We'd have to work as a team to provide the service to the community. If they charged me any rent I'd have to charge higher prices. And really, even at a few hundred per month, it wouldn't be enough money to even matter in their budget. And any more than $100 per month would totally destroy my business model and I'd not be able to afford to keep the system running. In the end I got my trade for service agreement from both of them. I also take good care of them when there is any trouble at all. I still think that the teamwork aspect of my presentation is what got them on board. Hope that helps, Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:05 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Those of you that are on water towers, what sort of agreements do you guys have with cities for their water towers and how much are you paying? I'm in negotiations with one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower
Mike, I will respond on the members list with some info and offer of a copy of my contracts for water towers/tanks Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:05 PM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Those of you that are on water towers, what sort of agreements do you guys have with cities for their water towers and how much are you paying? I'm in negotiations with one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower
$100 per month plus service to 1 city building per tower. Like Marlon, ours started out at $1500 per month too - had a consultant tell them it was worth that. They wouldn't go for the complete trade. $100/mth includes ground space if we decide to put up our own shelter or enclosure outside of their gates. We have trade with another public water district though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:05 PM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Those of you that are on water towers, what sort of agreements do you guys have with cities for their water towers and how much are you paying? I'm in negotiations with one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Water Tower
Those of you that are on water towers, what sort of agreements do you guys have with cities for their water towers and how much are you paying? I'm in negotiations with one now. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
I'm the one who asked the original question. Our intention is not to use magnets. We are going to build a super structure to fit around the cap. We will probably use industrial epoxy to hold the plates. Talley communications wants to bid on the project, but we will probably have it built locally. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JohnnyO Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems. JohnnyO ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts. they are lazy / cheap :) LOL - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one individual but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and false statements being made in response to a suggestion that magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both amazing and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a more professional atmosphere on this list. Best practices if it in this case is taken to mean to use a commercially available professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to withstand 100 mph wind loads (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a mounting system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a professionally engineered solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger, more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the mounting to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is best or not I suppose would depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the norm. It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be mounted on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a tie-off anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have attached a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would ever be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or handhold? Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand improper use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni antennas consisting of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The point is that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting something on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support point is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who propose such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they have actually mounted equipment on towers. As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I would assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that non-penetrating roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not specifically engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which might under some conditions fail and allow the heavy objects to fall would be outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do so. Or, perhaps because they were designed by professionals they would pass muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at them could imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail. I have seen numerous professionally engineered solutions which I would not use in a given circumstance because of the likelihood of it failing, and have in several instances used a solution designed by an amateur (me) so that I could rest easier at night, knowing that I have done what I could to mitigate the actual risk to life and property. Sometimes that means doing things in a way that is out of the norm, which scares some people. That they are scared by that which is not normal without a rational basis for their fear is disheartening. Many rules and regulations have been foisted upon us and have limited the options available to those less suited for the job at hand simply because of those irrational fears. I have seen mounts which were professionally mounted to towers using welded studs (either welded to existing towers or in some cases to towers being constructed) using small diameter bolts which were definitely not something that I would trust my life to, and other mounts that were well engineered and would likely withstand likely wind loads on the equipment that they were supporting, yet which will probably fail in hurricane or tornado force winds. Are these in-appropriate
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
You may have been blunt, but one benefit to some of your posts, is it's probably saved lives. remember the guy who posted pictures of his new tower set up a few years back? His guy was up on a 300' tower with no harness and sneakers... I'm sure your response drove home the issue of safety. At least John was cautious enough to use safety cables. In closing I probably could have responded differently initially. I apologize if I offended you with my bluntness. My primary industry (communications/cellular/tower contracting) lost two tower workers in Kansas within the last 72 hours after falling 500+ feet. Four workers within the past 60 days. Safety is my only issue when we get in the air. If I can't afford the right equipment, we don't do the job. We don't cut corners. Period. Be safe, think safety. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Carl We used one from Tessco that has a collar that bolts around the vent on top of tank and adjustable legs for leveling.It has been up there 4 years with no problems.It was easy to install approx 1hour. Ray Hill - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
I've heard that welding on a water tower is a bad idea... messes up some of the insides. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Carl Shivers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. Any other ideas would be welcome. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
of the community. John Clint Ricker wrote: Not to ruffle any feathers and not directed at anyone, but lack of problems on a single install does not always coincide with proper approaches on this sort of thing. Best practices are just that--the best approach(es) to doing technical work--there are also bad practices, not so good practices, it may work practices, it should hold practices, and we'll deal with that later practices. They often will get the job done, but, just so that we're all clear on this, none of the later category, no matter how many one-off implementations are functional to some degree or another, will ever be best practices. Personally, if I was in your town or especially on any sort of a planning board or whatever, I'd be fairly nervous about the idea of big heavy objects being held up by magnets, especially when (seemingly) it is being done by people who don't necessarily have a lot of experience with calculating load bearing stuff with magnets. The fact that you hold up anecdotal evidence as a basis for its validity rather than it's engineered to withstand 100Mph winds or whatever pretty much illustrates my point--this is just a bad idea. Just keep in mind that one falling antenna that kills one person is enough to bring out major liability lawsuits that you will not be covered against, not to mention bringing some fairly major legislative regulation and licensing requirements for mounting affecting the whole industry. If I knew that antennas in my area were be magnet-mounted by amateurs, I would be personally leading the charge for some regulation on this. Ok, sorry for any offense. I'm not trying to flame anyone, but this is just not a good idea. -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 7/12/07, Ray Jean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carl We used one from Tessco that has a collar that bolts around the vent on top of tank and adjustable legs for leveling.It has been up there 4 years with no problems.It was easy to install approx 1hour. Ray Hill - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems. JohnnyO ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts. they are lazy / cheap :) LOL - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one individual but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and false statements being made in response to a suggestion that magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both amazing and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a more professional atmosphere on this list. Best practices if it in this case is taken to mean to use a commercially available professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to withstand 100 mph wind loads (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a mounting system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a professionally engineered solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger, more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the mounting to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is best or not I suppose would depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the norm. It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be mounted on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a tie-off anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have attached a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would ever be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or handhold? Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand improper use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni antennas consisting of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The point is that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting something on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support point is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who propose such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they have actually mounted equipment on towers. As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I would assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that non-penetrating roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not specifically engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which might under some conditions fail and allow the heavy objects to fall would be outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do so. Or, perhaps because they were designed by professionals they would pass muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at them could imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail. I have seen numerous professionally engineered solutions which I would not use in a given circumstance because of the likelihood of it failing, and have in several instances used a solution designed by an amateur (me) so that I could rest easier at night, knowing that I have done what I could to mitigate the actual risk to life and property. Sometimes that means doing things in a way that is out of the norm, which scares some people. That they are scared by that which is not normal without a rational basis for their fear is disheartening. Many rules and regulations have been foisted upon us and have limited the options available to those less suited for the job at hand simply because of those irrational fears. I have seen mounts which were professionally mounted to towers using welded studs (either welded to existing towers or in some cases to towers being constructed) using small diameter bolts which were definitely not something that I would trust my life to, and other mounts that were well engineered and would likely withstand likely wind loads on the equipment that they were supporting, yet which will probably fail in hurricane or tornado force winds. Are these in-appropriate? should we engineer everything to withstand +500mph wind loads? Should all magnets be outlawed? (I see lots of magnetically mounted omni antennas on vehicles traveling at high speed down public roadways, can you imagine that???) I bet some of those responding negatively to magnetic mounts even have magnets holding stuff on their refrigerators, one of the highest use and traffic areas in the typical home. I can show numerous examples of solutions designed and built by amateurs which in the final analysis are safer and better solutions than commercially available
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Not to argue with you JohnnyO, :) but the last time I hired professionals (just recently in fact) to do something I could well have done myself, it was because I was lazy and cheap. I didn't have the time, nor the inclination to do something myself, so I hired a professional crew to do it for me. And I do mean professional. A highly experienced, regionally known, and well respected in the industry, firm. I was there to watch the work being done, and I can tell you that had safety, efficiency, and getting the job done according to all relevant best current practices been the criteria, the amateur crew I would have hired had I wanted to spend the time money and energy to do it myself would have been a far better choice. I may be lazy and cheap, but that is really irrelevant to the thread at hand. John JohnnyO wrote: I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems. JohnnyO ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts. they are lazy / cheap :) LOL - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one individual but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and false statements being made in response to a suggestion that magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both amazing and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a more professional atmosphere on this list. Best practices if it in this case is taken to mean to use a commercially available professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to withstand 100 mph wind loads (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a mounting system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a professionally engineered solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger, more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the mounting to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is best or not I suppose would depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the norm. It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be mounted on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a tie-off anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have attached a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would ever be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or handhold? Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand improper use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni antennas consisting of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The point is that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting something on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support point is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who propose such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they have actually mounted equipment on towers. As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I would assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that non-penetrating roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not specifically engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which might under some conditions fail and allow the heavy objects to fall would be outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do so. Or, perhaps because they were designed by professionals they would pass muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at them could imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail. I have seen numerous professionally engineered solutions which I would not use in a given circumstance because of the likelihood of it failing, and have in several instances used a solution designed by an amateur (me) so that I could rest easier at night, knowing that I have done what I could to mitigate the actual risk to life and property. Sometimes that means doing things in a way that is out of the norm, which scares some people. That they are scared by that which is not normal without a rational basis for their fear is disheartening. Many rules and regulations have been foisted upon us and have limited the options available to those less suited for the job at hand simply because of those irrational fears. I have seen mounts which were professionally mounted to towers using welded studs (either welded to existing towers or in some cases to towers being
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Or by people who have to deal with government people that are so overwhelmed by the Homeland Security stuff that they want absolutely nothing done that could even remotely cause an issue with the water supply. I do not personally have any water tower mounted equipment, partly because of this paranoia with making changes to the tower. I am fairly certain that the only way I would have gotten permission to go on the top of the tank would have been to use magnetic mounts. JohnnyO wrote: I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems. JohnnyO ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts. they are lazy / cheap :) LOL - Original Message - From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one individual but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and false statements being made in response to a suggestion that magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both amazing and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a more professional atmosphere on this list. Best practices if it in this case is taken to mean to use a commercially available professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to withstand 100 mph wind loads (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a mounting system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a professionally engineered solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger, more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the mounting to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is best or not I suppose would depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the norm. It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be mounted on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a tie-off anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have attached a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would ever be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or handhold? Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand improper use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni antennas consisting of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The point is that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting something on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support point is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who propose such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they have actually mounted equipment on towers. As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I would assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that non-penetrating roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not specifically engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which might under some conditions fail and allow the heavy objects to fall would be outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do so. Or, perhaps because they were designed by professionals they would pass muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at them could imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail. I have seen numerous professionally engineered solutions which I would not use in a given circumstance because of the likelihood of it failing, and have in several instances used a solution designed by an amateur (me) so that I could rest easier at night, knowing that I have done what I could to mitigate the actual risk to life and property. Sometimes that means doing things in a way that is out of the norm, which scares some people. That they are scared by that which is not normal without a rational basis for their fear is disheartening. Many rules and regulations have been foisted upon us and have limited the options available to those less suited for the job at hand simply because of those irrational fears. I have seen mounts which were professionally mounted to towers using welded studs (either welded to existing towers or in some cases to towers being constructed) using small diameter bolts which were definitely not something that I would trust my life to, and other mounts that were well engineered and would likely withstand likely wind loads on the equipment that they were supporting, yet which will probably fail in hurricane or tornado force winds. Are these in-appropriate? should we engineer everything to withstand +500mph wind loads
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
John Vogel, Disagreeing with you does not make this a less-than-professional discussion. There was nothing in my post that was unprofessional or uncivil; I simply disagree with the use of magnet-mounting equipment onto towers. If discussion on such stuff is unprofessional, then these lists have no purpose. You stated in your earlier post regarding magnets I don't completely trust them. I don't either, so we are in agreement on the matter :). Call it unprofessional of me, but I tend to think that one should avoid using mounting methods that one doesn't trust when one is dealing with big, heavy chunks of metal and what-all hundreds of feet in the air. As a general side note, any statement about mounting that involved some statement of I don't completely trust it would get the same response from me. I don't like the idea of people mounting big heavy objects above my head using methods they themselves have some doubt about. Best practices does not necessarily entail commercially available solutions or degreed engineering solutions. Best practices are simply that--the optimal way(s) of achieving a particular task. I don't completely trust methods are a long-ways off from that. My point is not to increase regulation and such--quite the opposite. My point is that using practices that aren't completely trusted will, in the end, lead to regulation. As an industry, the wireless industry will have to learn to regulate itself to a moderate degree or it will be regulated to a heavy degree. There's a lot that goes by everyone on that is not necessarily as well done as it could be--which is understandable--business may require concessions to some degree. Nevertheless, better practices should be used in places that are highly visible or potentially impact the public community. Does it need to involve a degreed engineer? Of course not. But, considering that even you had your doubts, 200 feet above everyone in plain sight of an entire town is a heck-of a place for a we'll see approach which was the feeling I got from your original postings. I don't think that engineering needs to take into accounts stupid misuse (ie antennas being used as footholds). Still, I don't see how a mounting solution that you were almost surprised that there hadn't been slippage on a year later is a good thing. -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies ps. I'm not against magnets in general. Magnets on my fridge? Guilty as charged :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Clint, Thank you for the civil reply. You are still making assumptions which are in fact un-founded. Nowhere in my post did I state the weights and dimensions of what I have secured to towers using magnets, the number and size of magnets, their placement on the towers, proximity to areas where there might be climbers attempting find anchor points, whether they were on vertical or horizontal planes of the tower, the leverage which might have been either in favor of or against the magnets due to stresses which might be placed on the mount by winds or objects striking the antennas/masts, the methods used to tie the magnets together, wind load factor of attached equipment, or really any other technical details which would have given you or anybody else a possible basis for determining whether or not the methods used were likely to be sufficient under all forseeable circumstances, or even possible catastophic conditions. Yet you still referred to amateurs, your liklihood of dis-allowing any such mounts were you in the decision making role or in authority position, and other references that indicated that you believe that anybody that would use magnetic mounts in any circumstance (at 200 feet in the air) is doing it wrong. I believe you also referred to lack of understanding of magnet load carrying capacity and other references to the lack of ability of people (presumably including me) who might choose to use magnets to mount an antenna. I did say that I did not completely trust the mount, and immediately following that statement, stated that I had secured the mount/mast to the tower using a safety cable. I did not express surprise that the magnets had not moved, just stated that I could not detect any movement. I actually attached the safety cable because I am probably more cautious than most. I also don't completely trust most other mounting systems, and whenever possible and/or practical, take steps to add a redundant safety feature such as a safety cable, supporting braces, multiple mount points, etc... and I do this on towers that are in rural locations with no structures/and only authorized personnell being within 1/2 mile of the towers. (and only on rare occasions at that.)There is almost zero possibility of anybody or any thing being damaged or hurt should the mounts fail and the safety cable failing simultaneously. And by almost zero I mean approaching infinitesimally small odds that someone will get hurt. But then again, I am not a statistician either. :) My negative reaction to your post and those made by others was prompted by the unequivocal statements that magnet mounts are always a bad idea. I would propose that a properly designed and built mounting system secured by the proper quantity/size/power magnets strategically placed can be safer than many of the mounting systems I see in use that would not have elicited such a response had the suggestion been to use them, including some mounts I have seen that were bolted to the tower using capacitive stud welding. In fact, I believe that magnets could be used successfully to secure a mounting system that I WOULD trust my life to, and I take life very seriously. :) The original poster asked for alternative ideas for mounting some sector antennas to a tower. He did not as I recall specify the size or weight of those antennas. They likely are not very big or heavy if he is in the WISP industry. Most likely they weigh only a couple of pounds, with minimal wind loading characteristics. If that is the case, it might be entirely possible to design a mounting system that would hold them, with the mounting system exceeding the specifications of the antenna brackets themselves in terms of holding capacity and projected reliability. I did not propose to him the design of such a system, nor would I. Only a suggestion that such things can and are being done successfully, giving him another option to research. It is OK for you and others to disagree, but please, do so in a reasoned and civil manner, taking all care necessary to avoid giving the impression that you believe those with whom you are disagreeing are idiots, fools, or worse... unless of course they actually are. :) John Clint Ricker wrote: John Vogel, Disagreeing with you does not make this a less-than-professional discussion. There was nothing in my post that was unprofessional or uncivil; I simply disagree with the use of magnet-mounting equipment onto towers. If discussion on such stuff is unprofessional, then these lists have no purpose. You stated in your earlier post regarding magnets I don't completely trust them. I don't either, so we are in agreement on the matter :). Call it unprofessional of me, but I tend to think that one should avoid using mounting methods that one doesn't trust when one is dealing with big, heavy chunks of metal and what-all hundreds of feet in the air. As a general side note, any statement about mounting that involved some statement of I
RE: [SPAM] RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
http://www.metal-cable.com/ Look at the MagneMount. No idea what is costs, but it should work for you. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark McElvy Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 3:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [SPAM] RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Importance: Low I would not recommend welding on the tank portion of the water tower. It is my understanding they are coated and will be damaged by the heat. I have equipment on two different water towers and that was the info given on both. Fortunately I had other mounting solutions. There was a discussion a while back about this and a magnetic mount was suggested. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Shivers Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. Any other ideas would be welcome. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Comments In line J. Vogel wrote: I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one individual but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and false statements being made in response to a suggestion that magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both amazing and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a more professional atmosphere on this list. Sorry to disappoint you. My reaction to the statement was not an assumption nor a knee jerk reaction. This subject was discussed in-depth in the past and there have been similar responses. While the idea may seem like a good one it is not a safe practice. Best practices if it in this case is taken to mean to use a commercially available professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to withstand 100 mph wind loads (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a mounting system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a professionally engineered solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger, more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the mounting to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is best or not I suppose would depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the norm. I believe the intention was to promote safe and responsible mounting of equipment. Professional was never the issue. It has been suggested in another post Yes..Mine.. that nothing should ever be mounted on a tower that some idiot Why is the person an idiot? might at some point decided to use as a tie-off anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have attached a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would ever be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or handhold? Comon'I'm not talking about tying off to a yagi. Give me some credit hereWe are talking about mounting structures.. Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand improper use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni antennas consisting of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? Being ridiculous here.. No one in the steel or tower industry would tie off to an actual antenna. The point is that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting something on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support point is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who propose such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they have actually mounted equipment on towers. 1. Not true. The number one issue when working and mounting at heights must be safety. Again, not cost, but safety. Mounting all equipment so it will not come down under any circumstances. Routing cabling on towers and water tanks so that they will not produce safety issues such as climbing obstructions and/or tripping hazards. Grounding equipment and following NEC/EIA requirements when routing power up a tower or tank. I do not feel that it is unrealistic to expect a mounting structure to be properly mounted. Add to that an inexperienced climber and an antenna mount with magnets that could easily slide across the surface of the tank and you have an extremely unsafe condition. There are several people on this list that were involved in Hurricaine Katrina relief. Ask them how many cellular antennas they saw hanging from their cabling or damaged mounts after the storm. It is my understanding that there were not any where the structure was still standing. And where towers had collapsed, the cell mounts were still attached to the downed towers. 2. I propose such a goal because both myself and my guys (as well as several thousand other tower/steel workers) work on these structures every day. It would probably be safe to say that I have more mounting experience on water tanks than anyone else on this list. Not bragging...just expressing my experience. And I did not get this experience in the last year or two. It is more like 20+ years. As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I would assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that non-penetrating roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not specifically engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which might under some conditions fail and allow the heavy objects to fall would be outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do so. Or, perhaps because they were designed by professionals they would pass muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at them could imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail. I am curious why you keep going back to this designed by professionals statement? Non-Pen mounts are designed to hold a certain amount of
[WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. Any other ideas would be welcome. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
I would not recommend welding on the tank portion of the water tower. It is my understanding they are coated and will be damaged by the heat. I have equipment on two different water towers and that was the info given on both. Fortunately I had other mounting solutions. There was a discussion a while back about this and a magnetic mount was suggested. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Shivers Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. Any other ideas would be welcome. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
I used 2 large magnets to mount sector antennas to the side of a water tank. Its been 4 years and they are still there. Bernie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Shivers Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. Any other ideas would be welcome. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
OK. Bob gets flamed.. AUGH! Not this thread again! Freakin magnets Come on guys!! Does anyone consider what would happen if someone used these mounts for an anchorage point while working on a tank?? And please dont say that it is obvious and no one would do it because nothing is obvious to everyone. It would be obvious to clip in and have 100 % tie off but 2 guys have died so far this year after falling from towers with their harnesses in tact. My position is do it right or dont do it Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:54 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
OK. Fair Comment. So how do you do it right? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts OK. Bob gets flamed.. AUGH! Not this thread again! Freakin magnets Come on guys!! Does anyone consider what would happen if someone used these mounts for an anchorage point while working on a tank?? And please dont say that it is obvious and no one would do it because nothing is obvious to everyone. It would be obvious to clip in and have 100 % tie off but 2 guys have died so far this year after falling from towers with their harnesses in tact. My position is do it right or dont do it Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:54 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
Capacitive Stud welding. Does not do a high heat tranfer thru the plate to disrupt the inside tank coating. The studs are threaded and all you do is slide the mount over the holes and nut em down. -B- Tom DeReggi wrote: OK. Fair Comment. So how do you do it right? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts OK. Bob gets flamed.. AUGH! Not this thread again! Freakin magnets Come on guys!! Does anyone consider what would happen if someone used these mounts for an anchorage point while working on a tank?? And please dont say that it is obvious and no one would do it because nothing is obvious to everyone. It would be obvious to clip in and have 100 % tie off but 2 guys have died so far this year after falling from towers with their harnesses in tact. My position is do it right or dont do it Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:54 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
You may get flamed Bob, but I would hope that everyone would think hard about the safety issues that you you raised and then decide to do the right (the safe) thing. jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. Bob gets flamed.. AUGH! Not this thread again! Freakin magnets Come on guys!! Does anyone consider what would happen if someone used these mounts for an anchorage point while working on a tank?? And please dont say that it is obvious and no one would do it because nothing is obvious to everyone. It would be obvious to clip in and have 100 % tie off but 2 guys have died so far this year after falling from towers with their harnesses in tact. My position is do it right or dont do it Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: J. Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:54 To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts Carl Shivers wrote: We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water Towers. One tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe mounting. The other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and over the top, no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs. Water Tower mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld the plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution. I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years now... I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable around the mast and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the magnets did turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and through several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't shifted a bit that I can see. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
http://www.sunbeltstudwelding.com/studwelding.htm Tom DeReggi wrote: OK. Fair Comment. So how do you do it right? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Water tower install pics
Anybody have pics of their water tower installs? I'm looking for both a railing mount as well as an epoxy mount if you have them. Need something to show to my local city council. Thanks in advance!! Jason Hensley, MCP+IPresident Mozarks Technologies909 Preacher Roe BlvdWest Plains, MO 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mozarks.com417.256.7946417.257.2415 (fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water tower install pics
I'll snap some for you the next time I climb it.Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anybody have pics of their water tower installs? I'm looking for both a railing mount as well as an epoxy mount if you have them. Need something to show to my local city council. Thanks in advance!!Jason Hensley, MCP+IPresident Mozarks Technologies909 Preacher Roe BlvdWest Plains, MO sp; 65775 [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mozarks.com417.256.7946417.257.2415 (fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/Velocity Wireless Anthony Morin 208 East Elm Street Ambia, IN 47917 Office: (765) 869-5173 Cell: (765) 884-6009 Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
They were told $1500 here. That's CELL phone company use though. Not wisp. I took an antenna to a city council meeting and showed them what little space I'd be using. I also compared revenue streams between cell phone companies and wisps. Then I told them that I wanted to service the community but couldn't do it alone. I needed their help. I'd get to people that the telco didn't with dsl and I'd offer the ONLY competitive pressure to the incumbent offering (still to this day there are only two of us). In the end, it costs them almost nothing. Our contract is for non interference not exclusive use. Our contract also says that when we fire up if we cause problems for ANYONE in the AREA we'll shut it down and redo things. They buy the hardware and we provide service to any city facilities that need it. Also talked them down from a $5,000,000 insurance requirement to $1,000,000 (worked out how to do that with my insurance agent). In the end, they are out nothing because I couldn't have gone up there at $1500 per month. And the community gained service where it wouldn't have gone otherwise and the city is saving hundreds on communications costs. That more helpful? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
That does help Marlon, and that's basically the approach I've been taking with them. There are, of course, other complications, but I won't go into here. I again appreciate everyone's response. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation They were told $1500 here. That's CELL phone company use though. Not wisp. I took an antenna to a city council meeting and showed them what little space I'd be using. I also compared revenue streams between cell phone companies and wisps. Then I told them that I wanted to service the community but couldn't do it alone. I needed their help. I'd get to people that the telco didn't with dsl and I'd offer the ONLY competitive pressure to the incumbent offering (still to this day there are only two of us). In the end, it costs them almost nothing. Our contract is for non interference not exclusive use. Our contract also says that when we fire up if we cause problems for ANYONE in the AREA we'll shut it down and redo things. They buy the hardware and we provide service to any city facilities that need it. Also talked them down from a $5,000,000 insurance requirement to $1,000,000 (worked out how to do that with my insurance agent). In the end, they are out nothing because I couldn't have gone up there at $1500 per month. And the community gained service where it wouldn't have gone otherwise and the city is saving hundreds on communications costs. That more helpful? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
[WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
Trade here as well. Hooked up Public Works and several sewer pump stations for web cams...saves them about 1 FTE in monitoring the sewer pumps. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I trade space and electricity for service. No limit on speed or connections for the city. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
Jason, The $1,000 per month was probably set by some cellular company years ago. The cell provider probably has its own tower now, but the $1,000 number remains in the water tower owners head and is probably 'pie-in-the-sky,' especially now. I have also located on billboards here... Where there's a will...there's a way! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
We have 2 water tower locations. At one, we provide free service and hosting for the city. At the other, we provide free service to the city and 4% of our net profit generated by users connected directly to their water tower. At a similar location, (an old city owned NORAD radar dome), we provide internet service for the city and hosting. In all cases, the city's involved consider us to be an asset and a source of indirect revenue. Houses here are much harder to sell if broadband is not available. Make friends with realtors Jason Hensley wrote: Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
Jason, I also ran into that, when I started building out my network. The local water company involved an outside company to find out a fair value for the tanks might be. They came back with a high number (in my opinion), but stated that cell phone companies get charged more... I waited about a year, and he randomly called me the other day. I mentioned that if he would have lowered his prices or been a bit flexible, I would have signed earlier and he would have had 12 months of service and me on his tanks. When he called, I suggested coming over and hooking him up. He agreed and was MUCH more agreeable and I set the price 1/2 of what he had originally heard from this outside company. If you are wanting numbers, send it to the WISP forums, not the public ones. QuoteYou can only charge what people are willing to pay./Quote Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation
We live in a town of 6,000 people and there are only 20,000 in the county. The city water company makes $3000+ per month from one of their water tanks. They charge $1000 - $1500 per month per tenant. The tank is only 100' tall so I don't know why the cell companies just don't erect their own tower in the area, there is a lot of land here for sale at prices in the $3k - $10k per acre range. Most water companies however will swap out free broadband and free installation for free use of their water tanks. Others are happy to receive $50 - $100 per month per water tank. I think what it really comes down to is who you are and who you know when dealing with water companies. Sincerely, Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky http://www.KyWiFi.com http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com Phone: 859.274.4033 A Broadband Phone Internet Provider == Wireless Broadband, Local Calling and UNLIMITED Long Distance only $69! No Taxes, No Regulatory Fees, No Hassles FREE Site Survey: http://www.KyWiFi.com == - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, The $1,000 per month was probably set by some cellular company years ago. The cell provider probably has its own tower now, but the $1,000 number remains in the water tower owners head and is probably 'pie-in-the-sky,' especially now. I have also located on billboards here... Where there's a will...there's a way! - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Thanks Cliff (and everyone else). The local folks here have been told by someone they should not take less than $1000 per month for someone to locate on their tower. Needless to say that puts a pretty big hit in the pocket book, and makes ROI pretty much non-existent for small-town WISP's like myself (I'm in a town of rolling hills and lots of big thick oak trees, population around 12,000). So, I'm working trying to find comparable figures for what others are paying and have worked out, etc, just to show that most are not paying anywhere near the $1000 per month for a water tower. Other towers, yes, maybe, but not water towers - at least not that I have found. - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation Jason, Each deal is different. I had tried unsuccessfully to get access to the water towers in my area for years. Than, one day, the realized that I could offer them something...two way IP communication to their equipment, and they could eliminate the 1FB's and modem they were currently using. I not charge them $30 per month for their 42 locations, and have rights to all of their towers for AP's...Go figure! - Cliff - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Water Tower Colocation I'm looking for comparisons again on water tower colocation. Have another area I'm trying to go into. Looking for what you're paying, if anything, what you're trading out (speed, number of buildings / connections, etc), etc etc. Specifically looking for folks in towns of under 20,000, but anything will help. Thanks a lot in advance!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
