Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[David E. Smith]

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
> We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
> for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
> larger server.

Darn, I was actually thinking about using iBGP and private ASNs on a
bunch of towers. More reliable than RIP, easier to set up than OSPF,
more flexible than both.

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

Are you actually carrying your traffic, with your own approved public
IP assignment to several carriers and they accept and route that
traffic to and from the Internet?  Any time I requested that it was a
very expensive proposition to have and they also only did large blocks
of publics.  I guess times have changed.

We have our network carrying our traffic to several feed points and we
do nat at that time.  Using policy routing and mesh we deliver to any
number of available ADSL lines and T1 connections.

Lonnie




On 8/24/06, Mark Koskenmaki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

In my case, all "servers" are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or
otherwise.   BGP needs to be in the regular AP version.


- Original Message -
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network


> We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
> for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
> larger server.
>
> Lonnie
>
> On 8/23/06, David E. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
> >
> > > We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like
the
> > > best.
> >
> > Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
> > remove BGP support from V3?
> >
> > David Smith
> > MVN.net
> > --
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> --
> Lonnie Nunweiler
> Valemount Networks Corporation
> http://www.star-os.com/
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Mark Koskenmaki]

In my case, all "servers" are in boxes in the air, on the roof, or
otherwise.   BGP needs to be in the regular AP version.


- Original Message - 
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network


> We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
> for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
> larger server.
>
> Lonnie
>
> On 8/23/06, David E. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
> >
> > > We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like
the
> > > best.
> >
> > Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
> > remove BGP support from V3?
> >
> > David Smith
> > MVN.net
> > --
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> -- 
> Lonnie Nunweiler
> Valemount Networks Corporation
> http://www.star-os.com/
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

We are building an AP unit for the middle and we figured that BGP was
for the edge with several outlets where you would typically have a
larger server.

Lonnie

On 8/23/06, David E. Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

> We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the
> best.

Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
remove BGP support from V3?

David Smith
MVN.net
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Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[David E. Smith]

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

> We support RIP, OSPF and OLSR Mesh, with mesh being the one we like the
> best.

Verging horribly off-topic for this, but out of curiosity, why did you
remove BGP support from V3?

David Smith
MVN.net
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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

twork you have a fairly
tough time to even find the area the trouble comes from because the nature of a
bridge makes sure that everybody on the network can hear the traffic.  The
purpose of a bridge is to connect two or more physical segments and make them
appear as one.

The other point is the Internet runs on routed machines.  Sure the Telcos have
switches in certain locations but the whole grand design is IP and subnet based.
Since you connect to that bigger network I advise that you use the same design
techniques that it uses.  To be direct, a wireless bridge is not even close to a
fibre switch with FDX, unlimited bandwidth and no latency.

Bridging causes a lot of trouble.  I know this first hand since I am the guy my
customers call to get a hand in fixing the trouble.  Sure the guys have a bit to
learn about routing and subnets, but this is their business.  Why would they not
wish to learn about networking?
How can anyone be building out networks and not have a basic knowledge of
networking?  Wireless is a combination of RF and Network Administration, and I
am sorry to say, but most people in wireless have no clue about either of those
topics, yet they are active on the lists and give out lots of "advice".

One of the largest wireless systems is run by Matt Larsen and you won't find him
telling you to bridge.  Will you Matt?

The decision is yours, but don't make the decision based on the fact you have to
learn a few things to route and can just jump in if you bridge.  If you don't
learn those few things about routing then I am quite sure you'll end up learning
a host of other things about bridging and the plethora of issues you can have.

Routing is the very simple application of a few basic rules of subnetting and
traffic direction.  Once people have learned the basics they usually tell me it
is actually easier than bridging and not a single person has ever told me that
they had better performance when they were bridged.

Sorry for the long posting, but this topic has touched some trigger points of
mine.

Lonnie


On 8/23/06, Jason Hensley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info Mac.
>
> First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility working.  That's
> one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user has what IP
> and how to get to their CPE.
>
> For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at all) can you tell me how
> this would work on a 2 hop setup?   Basically what I have is Tower 1 to
> Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using another 5.8 backhaul.
> Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one at each tower?
>
> Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is that, like someone
> else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I cannot do
> true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's).  So, what I've got to figure
> out how to get past that.  I'm considering replacing the 6000's with
> Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% yet.
>
> I think I've been talked out of using the public IP's on each CPE ;-)
> and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT.  But, I'm just having trouble
> picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially with the
> TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of).
>
> Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for me to get.  I could
> easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond that, it would
> take some pretty convincing data for me to get more.  But, once I get
> to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s).
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Mac Dearman
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
>
>
>I had one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of
> the State with wireless. I can tell you a few things about
> bridging-vs-routing and I aint getting into that, but I can tell you
> that I don't think you will want a totally static routed network
> either. That is not necessary unless you have 50-60 clients to the AP
> and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You do need to be in
> a routed environment today, but IMHO not in the way the majority would steer
you.
>
>
>
>
> Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best
> way to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with
> three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm
> getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I
> feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network.
>
>
>
>
> There are many ways to accomplish what you need to have done and I
> suggest that you look at each one of the

RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Jeff Broadwick]

7;t
learn those few things about routing then I am quite sure you'll end up learning
a host of other things about bridging and the plethora of issues you can have.

Routing is the very simple application of a few basic rules of subnetting and
traffic direction.  Once people have learned the basics they usually tell me it
is actually easier than bridging and not a single person has ever told me that
they had better performance when they were bridged.

Sorry for the long posting, but this topic has touched some trigger points of
mine.

Lonnie


On 8/23/06, Jason Hensley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info Mac.
>
> First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility working.  That's 
> one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user has what IP 
> and how to get to their CPE.
>
> For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at all) can you tell me how
> this would work on a 2 hop setup?   Basically what I have is Tower 1 to
> Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using another 5.8 backhaul.
> Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one at each tower?
>
> Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is that, like someone 
> else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I cannot do 
> true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's).  So, what I've got to figure 
> out how to get past that.  I'm considering replacing the 6000's with 
> Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% yet.
>
> I think I've been talked out of using the public IP's on each CPE ;-)  
> and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT.  But, I'm just having trouble 
> picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially with the 
> TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of).
>
> Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for me to get.  I could 
> easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond that, it would 
> take some pretty convincing data for me to get more.  But, once I get 
> to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s).
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Mac Dearman
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
>
>
>I had one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of 
> the State with wireless. I can tell you a few things about 
> bridging-vs-routing and I aint getting into that, but I can tell you 
> that I don't think you will want a totally static routed network 
> either. That is not necessary unless you have 50-60 clients to the AP 
> and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You do need to be in 
> a routed environment today, but IMHO not in the way the majority would steer
you.
>
>
>
>
> Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best 
> way to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with 
> three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm 
> getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I 
> feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network.
>
>
>
>
> There are many ways to accomplish what you need to have done and I 
> suggest that you look at each one of the suggestions that will have 
> been made and get a good understanding of what will be required down 
> the road to continue what you start. There are a couple very simple 
> solutions that will work, but then there are many ways to accomplish the same
task using static routing.
>
>
> Simplest and fastest (maybe best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing 
> VLANS. You can get a switch like a ($250.00)  Linksys SRW224G4 
> (naturally there are better but that will work fine) as there are 
> whole Counties utilizing networks with the Linksys switches and 
> routing and they aren't even wireless, but fiber!  Arlington County 
> Virginia is just one example and they do the back up for the Pentagon 
> and they are a huge completely bridged network.
> Keep your bridged environment between your APs and your clients, but 
> route the backbone to all of your towers. It will break up the 
> broadcast packets...etc from tower to tower, will segment each tower 
> and will not allow a single clients virus to sweep through your entire 
> network and have rolling outages. It also keeps you from having to use 
> 10 subnets/ip ranges for 3 towers and allows for unlimited growth potential.
>
>
>
>
> My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a 
> routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture 
> of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or 
> other probl

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Jason Hensley]

I appreciate everyone's input on this.  I'll be honest that I did bring up 
my network bridged because it is easier in the short term.  But as I grow, 
I'm well aware of the fact that bridging can lead to bigger problems and my 
intention from the get-go has been to route.  I think now, my biggest thing 
is figuring out how to modify my POP's to achieve what I want (hardware-wise 
that is).  I want to get this setup how I want / need it before I get too 
much larger.  I've got 3 POP's and about 30 clients right spread between 
them.  I'm getting more businesses on that need RDP and / or VPN capability 
and as it is right now (all clients on private IP space NAT'd to one public 
IP) I'm not able to provide this.


Anyway, I don't want to drag the thread on.  There is a ton of great info in 
here from everone who posted, and it is very much appreciated by me (and I'm 
sure others).  For the record, Matt did respond earlier in the thread 
somewhere as well I do believe.







- Original Message - 
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network


Jason,

Forget the VLAN and switch approach.  They might be usable on fibre
installs but radios are not the equivalent of a fibre or wire.  A
bridge is not the equivalent of a switch.  So using wireless bridges
is not the same as using fibre and switches.

The other issue is that bridging takes more CPU than routing.  Many
people will find this hard to believe but our routing performance
exceeds the bridging performance by at least 10%.  This is due to the
requirement of the CPU to analyze every packet in bridge mode whereas
routing just passes traffic for the MAC, which is all hardware
assisted in the Ethernet controller chip.

Subnet everything and use RIP and you will not have all IP addresses
addressable and you do not have to do anything other than enter a
default route.  It is just as easy as bridging without all of the
issues.

If you question whether there are bridge issues with wireless and
bizarre behaviour from proxy arp, mac cloning and WAN/LAN mixups then
you are not paying attention to the bulk of the posts on most of the
wireless lists and support forums.

People who tell you to bridge quite frequently do not know how to
route, and for that reason I would consider their advice as quite
suspect.  Bridging requires little or no knowledge which is why the
bulk of people use it.  They take the unit out of the box and connect
a unit and all of a sudden they have a magical LAN.  Rather than stop
and design a proper subnet structure they simply start adding other
users, and wow is it ever easy.  At that point they think those were
fools telling them to route.  How can something so simple and powerful
ever give them trouble?  Unfortunately as the bridge grows they begin
to have broadcast issues and so they investigate VLAN switches.  That
fixes it up and off they tear and add more customers and every now and
then another VLAN switch and life is great.

Then you get the guy who wants to run his own VLAN between his two
offices and the Industry comes up with VLAN in VLAN.  By now it is
getting a bit complicated and they have all of these VLAN tags to deal
with but at least they did not have to learn about IP and routing.  I
have noticed it is almsot like a badge of honour to be able to say
they do not route.

At the end of the day you still have a big old flat address space and
any customer can, and often does, affect your entire network.  With no
knowledge of your IP design, they can snoop and scan you and all of
your customers and your backbone infrastructure.  With nothing to
segment your network you have a fairly tough time to even find the
area the trouble comes from because the nature of a bridge makes sure
that everybody on the network can hear the traffic.  The purpose of a
bridge is to connect two or more physical segments and make them
appear as one.

The other point is the Internet runs on routed machines.  Sure the
Telcos have switches in certain locations but the whole grand design
is IP and subnet based.  Since you connect to that bigger network I
advise that you use the same design techniques that it uses.  To be
direct, a wireless bridge is not even close to a fibre switch with
FDX, unlimited bandwidth and no latency.

Bridging causes a lot of trouble.  I know this first hand since I am
the guy my customers call to get a hand in fixing the trouble.  Sure
the guys have a bit to learn about routing and subnets, but this is
their business.  Why would they not wish to learn about networking?
How can anyone be building out networks and not have a basic knowledge
of networking?  Wireless is a combination of RF and Network
Administration, and I am sorry to say, but most people in wireless
have no clue about either of those topics, yet they ar

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

n a 2 hop setup?   Basically what I have is Tower 1 to
Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using another 5.8 backhaul.
Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one at each tower?

Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is that, like someone else
mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I cannot do true routing
with TR-6000's (my AP's).  So, what I've got to figure out how to get past
that.  I'm considering replacing the 6000's with Mikrotik's, but not sure
about that 100% yet.

I think I've been talked out of using the public IP's on each CPE ;-)  and
am now planning to do 1-1 NAT.  But, I'm just having trouble picturing in my
head how I'm going to do this - especially with the TR6000 routing
capabilities (or lack of).

Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for me to get.  I could
easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond that, it would take
some pretty convincing data for me to get more.  But, once I get to that
size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s).


- Original Message -----
From: Mac Dearman
To: 'WISPA General List'
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network



Jason,



   I had one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the
State with wireless. I can tell you a few things about bridging-vs-routing
and I aint getting into that, but I can tell you that I don't think you will
want a totally static routed network either. That is not necessary unless
you have 50-60 clients to the AP and have multiple hops with that type of
traffic. You do need to be in a routed environment today, but IMHO not in
the way the majority would steer you.




Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best way to
do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different
POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm getting requests for
public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going
to need to have a routed network.




There are many ways to accomplish what you need to have done and I suggest
that you look at each one of the suggestions that will have been made and
get a good understanding of what will be required down the road to continue
what you start. There are a couple very simple solutions that will work, but
then there are many ways to accomplish the same task using static routing.


Simplest and fastest (maybe best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing
VLANS. You can get a switch like a ($250.00)  Linksys SRW224G4 (naturally
there are better but that will work fine) as there are whole Counties
utilizing networks with the Linksys switches and routing and they aren't
even wireless, but fiber!  Arlington County Virginia is just one example and
they do the back up for the Pentagon and they are a huge completely bridged
network.
Keep your bridged environment between your APs and your clients, but route
the backbone to all of your towers. It will break up the broadcast
packets...etc from tower to tower, will segment each tower and will not
allow a single clients virus to sweep through your entire network and have
rolling outages. It also keeps you from having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges
for 3 towers and allows for unlimited growth potential.




My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed
network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's
and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm
able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end.
I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a
routed network.



I understand this question as only another etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would
:)  Once you enter a routed environment on the backhaul or otherwise – your
scan utility will not scan but to the first router where it will loose its
ability to go any farther as the scan tool uses broadcast packets to seek
its objects and the router kills broadcast packets. You will have to log
every IP on your network and access the antennas via HTTP. (web interface)
The scan tool will still be functional at each individual tower and will
capture the antennas on the wireless AP you are attached to at the moment.
If you maintain a bridged network w/VLANS then the scan tool and everything
else will work as it does now.







Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE.  The
double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few issues, plus,
I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their
network.



I would NOT use public IPs for CPE, but I try to use public IPs for my
infrastructure. Its one of those deals where we all have our own beliefs, If
you use private IPs then you would need to do a VPN or RDP (remote de

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Sam Tetherow]

I use MT for my APs so the routing is not a problem.  If you have a 
router at each tower location you can route to the tower and be bridged 
at each  tower location.


I looked briefly at Tranzeo for APs but after using MT I wouldn't want 
to give up the extra features:

+ True routing
+ BW control at the AP.  A runaway machine can only kill an AP at most
+ No interclient communication.  Stops many trojan/virus vectors
+ Ability to have complex firewall rules at the AP.  I use these mostly 
to block common trojan and virus ports

+ Detailed stats on each client connection.

There are several ways to do this, as many of the respondants on this 
thread have mentioned (good thread by the way).  As for your earlier 
question concerning getting into the CPE in a router environment, as has 
already been mentioned, you just need to connect to it using the routed 
private IP assigned to it.  But something that hasn't been mentioned is 
in the case of a MT network (or other router/AP that supports it) you 
can also set up a VPN tunnel to the tower/AP and effectively be on the 
bridged network as well.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless


Jason Hensley wrote:

Thanks for the info Mac.
 
First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility working.  That's 
one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user has what IP 
and how to get to their CPE. 
 
For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at all) can you tell 
me how this would work on a 2 hop setup?   Basically what I have is 
Tower 1 to Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using 
another 5.8 backhaul.  Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one 
at each tower?
 
Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is that, like someone 
else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I cannot do 
true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's).  So, what I've got to figure 
out how to get past that.  I'm considering replacing the 6000's with 
Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% yet.   
 
I think I've been talked out of using the public IP's on each CPE ;-)  
and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT.  But, I'm just having trouble 
picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially with the 
TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of). 
 
Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for me to get.  I could 
easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond that, it would 
take some pretty convincing data for me to get more.  But, once I get 
to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s). 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Jason Hensley]

Thanks for the info Mac. 
 
First, I'm not that concerned about the CPE utility 
working.  That's one reason I like the static IP setup - I know what user 
has what IP and how to get to their CPE.  
 
For the VLAN switch (that I'm not familiar with at 
all) can you tell me how this would work on a 2 hop setup?   Basically 
what I have is Tower 1 to Tower 2 using 5.8 backhaul, then Tower 2 to NOC using 
another 5.8 backhaul.  Where would I drop the switch, or do I need one 
at each tower?
 
Main thing / challenge that I'm seeing right now is 
that, like someone else mentioned either here or on the other list, is that I 
cannot do true routing with TR-6000's (my AP's).  So, what I've 
got to figure out how to get past that.  I'm considering 
replacing the 6000's with Mikrotik's, but not sure about that 100% 
yet.    
 
I think I've been talked out of using the public 
IP's on each CPE ;-)  and am now planning to do 1-1 NAT.  But, I'm 
just having trouble picturing in my head how I'm going to do this - especially 
with the TR6000 routing capabilities (or lack of).  
 
Public IP's, at least for now, are pretty easy for 
me to get.  I could easily justify another /24 to my upstream, but beyond 
that, it would take some pretty convincing data for me to get more.  But, 
once I get to that size, I'll be looking at buying my own block(s).  

 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mac Dearman 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:48 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in 
  routed network
  
  
  Jason,
   
     I had 
  one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the State with 
  wireless. I can tell you a few things about bridging-vs-routing and I aint 
  getting into that, but I can tell you that I don’t think you will want a 
  totally static routed network either. That is not necessary unless you have 
  50-60 clients to the AP and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You 
  do need to be in a routed environment today, but IMHO not in the way the 
  majority would steer you.
   
  
  Ok, this may be a simple question, 
  but I'm trying to figure the best way to do this.  My wireless 
  network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically 
  assigned private IP's).  I'm getting requests for public IP 
  addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to 
  have a routed network. 
  
   
  There are many ways 
  to accomplish what you need to have done and I suggest that you look at each 
  one of the suggestions that will have been made and get a good understanding 
  of what will be required down the road to continue what you start. There are a 
  couple very simple solutions that will work, but then there are many ways to 
  accomplish the same task using static routing.
   
  
Simplest and fastest (maybe 
best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing VLANS. You can get a switch like 
a ($250.00)  Linksys SRW224G4 (naturally there are better but that will 
work fine) as there are whole Counties utilizing networks with the Linksys 
switches and routing and they aren’t even wireless, but fiber! 
 Arlington County Virginia is just one example and they 
do the back up for the Pentagon and they are a huge completely bridged 
network. 
Keep your bridged environment 
between your APs and your clients, but route the backbone to all of your 
towers. It will break up the broadcast packets...etc from tower to tower, 
will segment each tower and will not allow a single clients virus to sweep 
through your entire network and have rolling outages. It also keeps you from 
having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges for 3 towers and allows for unlimited 
growth potential. 
   
  
  My biggest question is, how do you 
  manage your CPE remotely in a routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 
  90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls 
  with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here 
  to see what's going on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that 
  ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network.  
  
   
  I understand this 
  question as only another etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would :)  Once you 
  enter a routed environment on the backhaul or otherwise – your scan utility 
  will not scan but to the first router where it will loose its ability to go 
  any farther as the scan tool uses broadcast packets to seek its objects and 
  the router kills broadcast packets. You will have to log every IP on your 
  network and access the antennas via HTTP. (web interface) The scan tool will 
  still be functional at each individual tower and will capture the antennas on 
  the wireless AP you are attached to at the moment. If you maintain a bridg

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[lists]

I will echo Mac's comments with just a couple of modifications. 

I also put 95% of my customers on private IP addresses, and that has worked 
wonderfully.  I have a separate subnet for every access point, and this has 
done a great job of keeping problems isolated and making troubleshooting 
much easier, even though it has made my routing tables a bit complicated.  
FWIW, I started with 192.168.254.0/24 and am working my way down from there 
- that way I have little chance of intefering with a default network setting 
on a client router.  I'm at 192.168.189.0/24 right now, so I have quite a 
ways to go before filling it all up. 

When customers need public IP addresses, the first thing that I do is try a 
1:1 NAT.  That keeps the customer on the private side.  We have done this 
for a few people who are using VOIP and that seems to help them maintain 
better VOIP connections.   If 1:1 will not work, then I set up a small 
routed subnet of public IP addresses on the sector.  More routing 
complications - yes - but it is good design and conserves public IP 
addressing space.  I have around 1300 customers, and three public class C 
networks spread out across 60 APs to give you and idea. 

For management of CPE radios, I have done a couple of things that have made 
it pretty simple.  My billing software (freeside) automatically assigns an 
IP address for the customer, and then one for the CPE.  We generally give 
the customer an even IP address and then their CPE radio is the odd number 
right above it (i.e. 192.168.250.2 is a customer, 192.168.250.3 is their 
CPE).   I like this a lot better than having a separate subnet for the CPE 
radios.  My home office and our main office are both on public IP addresses, 
but we are behind the router that does the NAT translations, so I can ping 
any private IP address on my network even though I have a public IP.   That 
makes it simple to manage customer radios from those two locations.  On the 
rare occasion where I need to get access to a CPE from outside my network, I 
have set up 1:1 NAT rules specifically for the particular radio. 

Anyway, that is what works for me. 


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Mac Dearman writes: 

Jason, 

  


   I had one of the largest bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the
State with wireless. I can tell you a few things about bridging-vs-routing
and I aint getting into that, but I can tell you that I don't think you will
want a totally static routed network either. That is not necessary unless
you have 50-60 clients to the AP and have multiple hops with that type of
traffic. You do need to be in a routed environment today, but IMHO not in
the way the majority would steer you. 

  


Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best way to
do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with three different
POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm getting requests for
public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going
to need to have a routed network.  

  


There are many ways to accomplish what you need to have done and I suggest
that you look at each one of the suggestions that will have been made and
get a good understanding of what will be required down the road to continue
what you start. There are a couple very simple solutions that will work, but
then there are many ways to accomplish the same task using static routing. 

  


1.  Simplest and fastest (maybe best) is to use layer 2 switches
utilizing VLANS. You can get a switch like a ($250.00)  Linksys SRW224G4
(naturally there are better but that will work fine) as there are whole
Counties utilizing networks with the Linksys switches and routing and they
aren't even wireless, but fiber!  Arlington County Virginia is just one
example and they do the back up for the Pentagon and they are a huge
completely bridged network.
2.  Keep your bridged environment between your APs and your clients, but
route the backbone to all of your towers. It will break up the broadcast
packets...etc from tower to tower, will segment each tower and will not
allow a single clients virus to sweep through your entire network and have
rolling outages. It also keeps you from having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges
for 3 towers and allows for unlimited growth potential. 

  


My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed
network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's
and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other problems, I'm
able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from that end.
I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to do that with a
routed network.   

  


I understand this question as only another etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would
:)  Once you enter a routed environment on the backhaul or otherwise - your
scan utility will not scan but to the first router where it will loose its
ability to go any farther as the scan tool

RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Mac Dearman]

Jason,

 

   I had one of the largest
bridged networks ever as I cover 15-18% of the State with wireless. I can tell
you a few things about bridging-vs-routing and I aint getting into that, but I
can tell you that I don’t think you will want a totally static routed
network either. That is not necessary unless you have 50-60 clients to the AP
and have multiple hops with that type of traffic. You do need to be in a routed
environment today, but IMHO not in the way the majority would steer you.

 



Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying
to figure the best way to do this.  My wireless network is currently
all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private
IP's).  I'm getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add
more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 





 

There are many ways to accomplish what you
need to have done and I suggest that you look at each one of the suggestions
that will have been made and get a good understanding of what will be required
down the road to continue what you start. There are a couple very simple
solutions that will work, but then there are many ways to accomplish the same
task using static routing.

 


 Simplest
 and fastest (maybe best) is to use layer 2 switches utilizing VLANS. You
 can get a switch like a ($250.00)  Linksys SRW224G4 (naturally there
 are better but that will work fine) as there are whole Counties utilizing
 networks with the Linksys switches and routing and they aren’t even
 wireless, but fiber!  Arlington
  County Virginia
 is just one example and they do the back up for the Pentagon and they are
 a huge completely bridged network.
 Keep
 your bridged environment between your APs and your clients, but route the
 backbone to all of your towers. It will break up the broadcast packets...etc
 from tower to tower, will segment each tower and will not allow a single
 clients virus to sweep through your entire network and have rolling
 outages. It also keeps you from having to use 10 subnets/ip ranges for 3
 towers and allows for unlimited growth potential.


 





My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely
in a routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from
that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to
do that with a routed network.  

 

I understand this question as only another
etherant/Tranzeo CPE user would :)  Once you enter a routed environment on
the backhaul or otherwise – your scan utility will not scan but to the
first router where it will loose its ability to go any farther as the scan tool
uses broadcast packets to seek its objects and the router kills broadcast packets.
You will have to log every IP on your network and access the antennas via HTTP.
(web interface) The scan tool will still be functional at each individual tower
and will capture the antennas on the wireless AP you are attached to at the
moment. If you maintain a bridged network w/VLANS then the scan tool and
everything else will work as it does now.

 





 





Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to
each CPE.  The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a
few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote
Access to their network.  

 

I would NOT use public IPs for CPE, but I
try to use public IPs for my infrastructure. Its one of those deals where we
all have our own beliefs, If you use private IPs then you would need to do a
VPN or RDP (remote desk top) back into your network to see what’s going
on. The biggest advantage to privates on infrastructure is NO HACKING from China...etc. Give
only public IPs to those who have a need and willing to pay a little extra for
the ability. VPNs work even though they are behind NAT. I would also encourage
you to keep your bandwidth shaping at the head end of your network for convenience
and easy back up. They can only send data as fast as you allow them
irregardless of where you do traffic shaping. The PC will slow down the data it
is sending thru your network to match what you set there speed to be and it
does not create a traffic jam on your network - - as some would make you
believe.





 





I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. 
I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed.

 

I have a huge network right now and only
have 2 /24’s and 2 /27’s, but I don’t give public IP’s
to anyone who don’t pay for them so 90% of my clients have a private IP.
If more public IP’s are easy to get – get them! Once again the
greatest advantage of private IPs is the lack of the rest of the world to hack
on our clients. 

  





 





How are the rest of you handling your setups like
this?  

 

Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Sam Tetherow]

Don't know about H323, but I haven't found a VPN that it causes problems 
with yet.


There are not many protocols left that won't survive NAT.  Given that 
most users sit behind NAT routers these days.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

John J. Thomas wrote:

One to One NATing is good except that it breaks H.323, and would limit VPN 
usage. Yes, there are Businesses that do Netmeeting and other H.323 
applications as well as VPNs.

JT

  

-Original Message-
From: Mark McElvy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 04:07 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

In the end I feel routed is better because you grow, a bridged network
will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).



You manage the CPE in a routed network just as you do now. What maybe
you see is the difference between true routes and NAT routes. With true
routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can easily get to
the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT router
hides the network behind the "WAN" address whether its private or public
and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its coming from
the "WAN" address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will not do true
routing only NAT routing.



I also like the idea of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private
ip of the customer.



Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

573-729-9200





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network



Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best way
to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with three
different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm getting
requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like
I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 




My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed
network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of
CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going
on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but not
sure how to do that with a routed network.  




Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE.
The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few
issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and
Remote Access to their network.  




I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.  I've got a /24
right now and can easily bump to more when needed.  




How are the rest of you handling your setups like this?  




Thanks in advance!





Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President

Mozarks Technologies
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO  65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax) 







  


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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[John J. Thomas]

One to One NATing is good except that it breaks H.323, and would limit VPN 
usage. Yes, there are Businesses that do Netmeeting and other H.323 
applications as well as VPNs.

JT

>-Original Message-
>From: Mark McElvy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 04:07 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
>
>In the end I feel routed is better because you grow, a bridged network
>will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).
>
> 
>
>You manage the CPE in a routed network just as you do now. What maybe
>you see is the difference between true routes and NAT routes. With true
>routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can easily get to
>the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT router
>hides the network behind the "WAN" address whether its private or public
>and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its coming from
>the "WAN" address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will not do true
>routing only NAT routing.
>
> 
>
>I also like the idea of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private
>ip of the customer.
>
> 
>
>Mark McElvy
>
>AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
>
>573-729-9200
>
> 
>
>
>
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network
>
> 
>
>Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best way
>to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with three
>different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm getting
>requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like
>I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 
>
> 
>
>My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed
>network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of
>CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other
>problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going
>on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but not
>sure how to do that with a routed network.  
>
> 
>
>Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE.
>The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few
>issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and
>Remote Access to their network.  
>
> 
>
>I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.  I've got a /24
>right now and can easily bump to more when needed.  
>
> 
>
>How are the rest of you handling your setups like this?  
>
> 
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
> 
>
>
>
>Jason Hensley, MCP+I
>President
>
>Mozarks Technologies
>909 Preacher Roe Blvd
>West Plains, MO  65775
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.mozarks.com
>
>417.256.7946
>417.257.2415 (fax) 
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[David E. Smith]

Jason Hensley wrote:

> I'm really going to need to have a routed network.

You're probably right there. Our legacy bridged network still causes the
occasional weird problem, because of all the MACs flying around three
counties.

> My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a routed
> network?

The same way as in a bridged network?

(If this sounds like a silly response, I apologize, but things will be
pretty much the same, only you might have to keep track of a couple
different subnet masks. Obviously I don't know your network, but it
shouldn't cause any major changes in how you manage things, aside from
having to change a few IPs here and there.)

> Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE. 

I'm not familiar with the specific gear you're using, but I'd suggest
avoiding that if possible. It's a bit wasteful of public IPs. (I'm
guilty of this, I'll admit it.)

If your gear will support it, just do an "overlay" network, and for the
sake of convenience, just use similar IPs for both networks.

Example: give your AP both 10.100.100.1 and 20.2.2.1 (one IP from a
private block, one from a public block). Then, for the first customer,
make his radio 10.100.100.2, and his router (or whatever) 20.2.2.2 (the
public IP - note that the last octet is the same).

That gives you the benefit of private IPs you can use to manage your CPE
and your network, gives the customer a public IP address, and by virtue
of having your customer gear in a separate subnet, makes it a bit harder
for your users to poke around in your network :)

This assumes your CPE is all basically "transparent bridge" gear. Again,
I'm not familiar with your network, and that may not be the case.

If you've only got a /24 worth of public IPs now, this is an especially
good idea, because it will allow you to conserve those IPs. Better to do
it now, and do it right, than when you have many hundreds of end-users
and it's more of a trial to do.

David Smith
MVN.net
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RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Mark McElvy]

I am currently using WRAP/StarOS for APs,
routing back to a StarOS Head end router that is doing the shaping. I am a fan
of centralized administration, I use MAC/Radius Auth for the SOS APs, but
Atheros radios do not support this.

 

Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

Salem, MO

573-729-9200









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
6:23 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE
in routed network



 



That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm considering
replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more flexibility, and
give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. 





 





 







- Original Message - 





From: Mark McElvy 





To: WISPA General List






Sent: Tuesday, August
22, 2006 6:07 PM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
Managing CPE in routed network





 



In the end I feel routed is better because
you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).

 

You manage the CPE in a routed network
just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes
and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You
can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A
NAT router hides the network behind the “WAN” address whether its
private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its
coming from the “WAN” address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will
not do true routing only NAT routing.

 

I also like the idea of one to one NATing
the Public IP to the private ip of the customer.

 

Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

573-729-9200

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in
routed network



 



Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying
to figure the best way to do this.  My wireless network is currently
all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private
IP's).  I'm getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add
more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 





 





My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely
in a routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from
that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to
do that with a routed network.  





 





Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to
each CPE.  The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a
few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote
Access to their network.  





 





I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. 
I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed.  





 





How are the rest of you handling your setups like
this?  





 





Thanks in advance!





 











Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President

Mozarks Technologies
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO  65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax) 









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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Jason Hensley]

That is correct on the Tranzeo AP's, but, I'm 
considering replacing the TR-6000's I have with RB532's to give me more 
flexibility, and give true bandwidth shaping at the AP instead of at my headend. 

 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mark McElvy 
  
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:07 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in 
  routed network
  
  
  In the end I feel 
  routed is better because you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of 
  overhead traffic).
   
  You manage the CPE in 
  a routed network just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference 
  between true routes and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and 
  from each subnet. You can easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a 
  properly routed network. A NAT router hides the network behind the “WAN” 
  address whether its private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT 
  subnet appears as if its coming from the “WAN” address. Tranzeo APs, last time 
  I tried, will not do true routing only NAT 
  routing.
   
  I also like the idea 
  of one to one NATing the Public IP to the private ip of the 
  customer.
   
  Mark 
  McElvy
  AccuBak Data Systems, 
  Inc.
  573-729-9200
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason HensleySent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:32 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA 
  General ListSubject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed 
  network
   
  
  Ok, this may be a simple question, 
  but I'm trying to figure the best way to do this.  My wireless 
  network is currently all bridged with three different POP's (all statically 
  assigned private IP's).  I'm getting requests for public IP 
  addresses and as I add more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to 
  have a routed network. 
  
   
  
  My biggest question is, how do you 
  manage your CPE remotely in a routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 
  90% Tranzeo gear (mixture of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls 
  with performance or other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here 
  to see what's going on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that 
  ability but not sure how to do that with a routed network.  
  
  
   
  
  Also, I would ideally like to have 
  a public IP assigned to each CPE.  The double NAT'ing I've got going 
  right now has been causing a few issues, plus, I'm getting more business 
  customers that want VPN and Remote Access to their network.  
  
  
   
  
  I realize this will take 
  subnetting to make it happen.  I've got a /24 right now and can easily 
  bump to more when needed.  
  
   
  
  How are the rest of you handling 
  your setups like this?  
  
   
  
  Thanks in 
  advance!
  
   
  
  
  
  
  Jason 
  Hensley, MCP+IPresident
  Mozarks 
  Technologies909 Preacher Roe 
  BlvdWest Plains, MO  
  65775
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.mozarks.com417.256.7946417.257.2415 
  (fax) 
  
  

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RE: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Mark McElvy]

In the end I feel routed is better because
you grow, a bridged network will get loud (lots of overhead traffic).

 

You manage the CPE in a routed network
just as you do now. What maybe you see is the difference between true routes
and NAT routes. With true routes there is a path to and from each subnet. You can
easily get to the web interface of each CPE in a properly routed network. A NAT
router hides the network behind the “WAN” address whether its
private or public and all traffic coming from the NAT subnet appears as if its
coming from the “WAN” address. Tranzeo APs, last time I tried, will
not do true routing only NAT routing.

 

I also like the idea of one to one NATing
the Public IP to the private ip of the customer.

 

Mark McElvy

AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

573-729-9200

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006
5:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Managing CPE in
routed network



 



Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying
to figure the best way to do this.  My wireless network is currently
all bridged with three different POP's (all statically assigned private
IP's).  I'm getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add
more clients, I feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network. 





 





My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely
in a routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or other
problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's going on from
that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but not sure how to
do that with a routed network.  





 





Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to
each CPE.  The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a
few issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and Remote
Access to their network.  





 





I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen. 
I've got a /24 right now and can easily bump to more when needed.  





 





How are the rest of you handling your setups like
this?  





 





Thanks in advance!





 











Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President

Mozarks Technologies
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO  65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax) 








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Re: [WISPA] Managing CPE in routed network

[Sam Tetherow]

In my network I assign a private IP to the CPE and a 'similar' IP to the 
customer. 

For instance if I assign 10.1.1.100 to the customer then I assigned 
10.101.1.100 to the CPE.  Easy to remember the CPE address given the 
customers IP. 

Each AP gets it's own class C. I then do 1 to 1 NAT at the edge of my 
network for the customer if they need an external IP address.  I have 
yet to find an instance where this has been an issue for the customer.


From outside my network I VPN in to be able to access my 
infrastructure.  I don't think I would want to give my CPEs (or any 
other infrastructure) public routable network addresses.


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Jason Hensley wrote:
Ok, this may be a simple question, but I'm trying to figure the best 
way to do this.  My wireless network is currently all bridged with 
three different POP's (all statically assigned private IP's).  I'm 
getting requests for public IP addresses and as I add more clients, I 
feel like I'm really going to need to have a routed network.
 
My biggest question is, how do you manage your CPE remotely in a 
routed network?  Right now I'm pretty much 90% Tranzeo gear (mixture 
of CPE-15's and CPQ gear).  If a customer calls with performance or 
other problems, I'm able to log into their CPE from here to see what's 
going on from that end.  I would much rather maintain that ability but 
not sure how to do that with a routed network. 
 
Also, I would ideally like to have a public IP assigned to each CPE.  
The double NAT'ing I've got going right now has been causing a few 
issues, plus, I'm getting more business customers that want VPN and 
Remote Access to their network. 
 
I realize this will take subnetting to make it happen.  I've got a /24 
right now and can easily bump to more when needed. 
 
How are the rest of you handling your setups like this? 
 
Thanks in advance!
 



*Jason Hensley, MCP+I
President*

*Mozarks Technologies*
909 Preacher Roe Blvd
West Plains, MO  65775

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
http://www.mozarks.com

417.256.7946
417.257.2415 (fax)

!DSPAM:16,44eb863835541702512215! 
 



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