Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
USF is only valid on connections that start and end in different states. The litmus test is 'intra-state' vs 'inter-state'. Some snippets in a discussion between myself and one of my consulting clients when they were presented with the USF fees you mention (IANAL!): (http://www.usac.org/cont/about/who-must-contribute/default.aspx) is very informative. To quote the site (highlighting is ours): The term telecommunications refers to the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received. For the purpose of filing, the term interstate telecommunications includes, but is not limited to, the following types of services: ... private line; ... I took a look at our notes from the FCC Report and Order 97-157 p14 and section 2(b) of the Communications Act that outlines (again bolding ours): nothing in this Act shall be construed to apply or to give the Commission jurisdiction with respect to . . . charges, classifications, practices, services, facilities, or regulations for or in connection with intrastate communication service by wire or radio of any carrier. The FCC specifically states in its website to explain USF in simple terms ( http://www.fcc.gov/guides/universal-service-support-mechanisms) ...when a company chooses to recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to customers. The reaction from this customer's ISP was great and we saved THE ISP (reselling Comcast fiber) a great deal of monies. Just keep asking the same question over and over: Is this 'intra-state' or 'inter-state' service? Once they call The USAC and ask then USAC person will more or less hit them with a clue-by-four and tell them that they cannot charge USF for intra-state! ryan ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kristian Hoffmann Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net _ From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] # Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
From our Metro Ethernet network _ From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. _ From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] # Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] #] # Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/universal-service Do a search on interstate. USF does not apply to INTRASTATE communications. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.orgmailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.orgmailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.orgmailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.commailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com%3e] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org%3e] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org%3e mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org%3e%3e [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org%3e mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org%3e%3e] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.netmailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.netmailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net%3e mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.netmailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net%3e%3e mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.netmailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net%3e mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.netmailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net%3e%3e%3e%3e wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] #] # Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.netmailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.netmailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net%3e mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.netmailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net%3e%3e mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.netmailto:supp
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. _ From: Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] To: WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518[Call: (305)663-5518] #] # Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Interstate access charge, maybe? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Be as confusing as possible and that way get the least push back on a made up charge... After all the fake charges on cell invoices, dsl invoices, and cable invoices, what would make you think that this was any different? Just because you are in the biz and might know better? I am sure that there are thousands of companies that just go on paying these extra fees because they look legit and there is something that might be related in the regs... On 04/16/2014 11:51 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Interstate access charge, maybe? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
James, That's kind of how I was reading that too. Yes, the carrier only pays it on intrastate circuits, but they can charge it anywhere --- provided they don't charge more than they pay.. Which brings up another question. with enough customer base the charges should go down for everyone but I can't recall the last time I saw that happen. Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 3:01 PM, James Howard wrote: From the FCC website: The Universal Service Fund is paid for by contributions http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-methodology-administrative-filings from telecommunications carriers, including wireline and wireless companies, and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers, including cable companies that provide voice service, based on an assessment on their *interstate* and international end-user revenues. * Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about *whether and how to assess charges to recover* its Universal Service costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any fees from a Lifeline program participant. IANAL but this doesn’t seem to restrict them from “recovering” these fees from ANY customer they want to recover them from. Just because we aren’t using an INTERSTATE circuit doesn’t mean that they can’t chose to recover some of their USF fees from us. We have been successful in getting them removed from all of our intrastate circuits. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:51 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Interstate access charge, maybe? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com%3e] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org%3e] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e%3e wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com%3e mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com%3e%3e] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org%3e mailto:wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
On 4/16/2014 2:32 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Jurisdiction. The Federal USF is, by law, only applicable to interstate services. USF was created in 1996. Before then, rural telcos got all of their subsidies from long-distance calling. If you made a 25c/minute call from New York to Grouse Creek, New York Tel might get a few cents for its end, while Beehive got about 40 cents of the 25. The long distance carrier kept the rest. Which, in the case of calls to Grouse Creek, was negative. But regulations required them to deliver the calls and charge the same price to retail subscribers regardless of whether it was going to Salt Lake City at say 4c/min or Grouse Creek at ten times as much. So in order to fix that mess, USF created a tax called a fee (because Americans hate taxes, but are assumed to be easy to fool) on all interstate telecom. So the access charges could be lowered, and long distance rates could come down. But jurisdictional rules being what they are, calls within a state were only subject to state regulation. So states could keep high access charges (as many did, a practice finally banned as of 2013) and/or create a state USF of their own, if they wanted to tax intrastate telecom. And some did. Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Yes I worded that wrong, thanks for catching it :) Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 3:09 PM, James Howard wrote: I think you worded that wrong, they only pay it on INTERSTATE circuits. It does specifically say they can’t recover more than they pay in BUT who’s actually monitoring that? You can’t really blame them for wanting to recover it, if you look at the rate set by the FCC, it’s been above 15% for several years now. That’s a pretty major hit. If they are doing it correctly though, they should NOT be paying it for revenue that is generated from us so they should have less to recover. On the other hand, most of them probably get back as much as they contribute to the USF anyway though. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:04 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs James, That's kind of how I was reading that too. Yes, the carrier only pays it on intrastate circuits, but they can charge it anywhere --- provided they don't charge more than they pay.. Which brings up another question. with enough customer base the charges should go down for everyone but I can't recall the last time I saw that happen. Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 3:01 PM, James Howard wrote: From the FCC website: The Universal Service Fund is paid for by contributions http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-methodology-administrative-filings http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/contribution-methodology-administrative-filings%3e from telecommunications carriers, including wireline and wireless companies, and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers, including cable companies that provide voice service, based on an assessment on their *interstate* and international end-user revenues. * Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to customers. Each company makes a business decision about *whether and how to assess charges to recover* its Universal Service costs. These charges usually appear as a percentage of the consumer’s phone bill. Companies that choose to collect Universal Service fees from their customers cannot collect an amount that exceeds their contribution to the USF. They also cannot collect any fees from a Lifeline program participant. IANAL but this doesn’t seem to restrict them from “recovering” these fees from ANY customer they want to recover them from. Just because we aren’t using an INTERSTATE circuit doesn’t mean that they can’t chose to recover some of their USF fees from us. We have been successful in getting them removed from all of our intrastate circuits. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:51 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Interstate access charge, maybe? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e wrote: Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org%3e%3e wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
It was hundreds of dollars a month, I know that. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Interstate access charge, maybe? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 4/16/14, 2:40 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: Don't know. The word interstate was in the description of the charge. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:32:45 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs OK... but why is there no USF on an INTRAstate circuit but there is on an INTERstate? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] # On 4/16/14, 2:22 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: There was none. We just kept refusing to pay it and explained it several times. They finally removed it. Having a good relationship with your A.E. helps a lot I guess. I lot of it was just making them understand that, since they had all the addresses of the drops, it was NOT interstate. I used to fight this with the phone company as well several years ago in another life. *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:19 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs That's what I meant... interesting. Good to know! Can you reference the paperwork ID number you had to request? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] # On 4/16/14, 1:28 PM, ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote: From our Metro Ethernet network *From:* Matt Hoppes [mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com] *To:* WISPA General List [mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org] *Sent:* Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:41:22 -0400 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs So you got the USF tax removed from your Comcast transport circuit? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312[Call: +1 (570) 723-7312] #] #] # On 4/16/14, 12:30 PM, ralph wrote: We did this, and won. Still trying to get credit for what was paid before we squeaked. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Kristian Hoffmann *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:06 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs?
On 4/15/2014 5:12 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. Nope. USF is applied to jurisdictionally-interstate telecommunications. Not information service, which is what an ISP provides. But a point to point link is a classic example of a telecommunications service, ye olde private line updated to fiber. And since it is carrying Internet traffic, which is interstate (10%), the circuit is interstate, and thus taxable. Disclaimer: IANAL; this is just how I understand it. If you were a CLEC and collected USF yourself, then your upstream links would be wholesale, and you could show them the FCC web site entry proving you paid USF, exempting you from paying them and exempting them from collecting from you. USF is collected once, by the last non-de-minimis telecom provider in the sales chain. So your provider correctly sees you as an end customer of telecom and thus has to collect it from you. IP transit is something else, not covered by USF. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. That circuit isn't broadband, it's just a private line. What you do with it is your business; USAC wants their cut. And the price has been over 15% for years now. It skyrocketed in 2006 when Bell DSL was declared to be purely an information service and thus exempt, vs. before that when it had a legally-separate telecom component (the raw DSL that an ISP could get out of the Special Access tariff). And the total dollar value of long distance phone calling has gone down, so the huge money paid to rural ILECs is divided by a smaller revenue base. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) You aren't exempt, since you aren't collecting it from your customers. What you're buying and what they're being taxed on isn't broadband. 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? CAF doesn't really change who pays in; it changes what's paid out, if/when it takes full effect. 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). Being CLEC probably doesn't matter. USF comes after you if you even smell remotely like interstate telecommunications and aren't clearly exempt. Those rural ILECs need somebody to pay for their $250/month/line subsidies. 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? If it were purely intrastate (e.g., to connect two locations of a company for PBX remote extensions), it would not be jurisdictionally interstate, which triggers federal USF. Of course some states have small USFs of their own. 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. If it's a tough call, this is best left to lawyers who've fought it out with USAC, or followed those cases. Case law is more important than black letter rules. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1io fred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
condensed answer .. 1. You can claim exemption from communication taxes if you ask for ITNA (Internet Taxation Freedom Act) Exemption.. (Most providers now have forms for it, even though it is not easy to get them to provide the forms)., as long as you are not in a grandfathered state. 2. No way out of paying USF, unless you have a 499 ID and you are NOT de-minimus There is an exemption form for this as well... 3. Recovery Fees you are SOL, because there is no law that applies unless you have negotiated something that counters this in your MSA. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:19:54 PM Subject: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
They all do. (i.e. try to screw the ISP/NSP/WISP) Chase down the person in-charge of their Tax Dept, and ask them for ITNA Tax Exemption Form :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:44:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net *From: *Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Good info. What is their reasoning behind that? Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Kristian Hoffmann kh...@fire2wire.com wrote: The key for Comcast is to make sure your contract says intra-state and not inter-state for the tax jurisdiction. They don't collect USF on intra-state circuits, only local city/county/state taxes as applicable. If your contract says inter-state (and it isn't inter-state), you can harass your sales rep into getting a change order done. If it's intra-state and they still collect USF, then make the appropriate stink with your sales rep. -Kristian On 04/15/2014 03:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
