Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
- What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. - Should not be any different than setting up BGP over a Physical Connection.. As long IP is being passed it should not be a problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 9/11/2010 4:47 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
That makes sense. BGP over a VPLS VC shouldn't be any different than BGP across a Ethernet cable AFAIK. Have you checked out the Alcatel-Lucent SR series routers? I'm supposed to be talking to one of their sales reps next week. They nare really trying to gain market share and i hear hey have some good deals. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
No I haven't. But I will look into it now. Let me know how your talk with the sales guys goes? On 09/11/2010 02:38 PM, Jon Auer wrote: That makes sense. BGP over a VPLS VC shouldn't be any different than BGP across a Ethernet cable AFAIK. Have you checked out the Alcatel-Lucent SR series routers? I'm supposed to be talking to one of their sales reps next week. They nare really trying to gain market share and i hear hey have some good deals. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Yikes $40k again. I am trying to come up with a sub $12k solution. On 09/11/2010 02:39 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: No I haven't. But I will look into it now. Let me know how your talk with the sales guys goes? On 09/11/2010 02:38 PM, Jon Auer wrote: That makes sense. BGP over a VPLS VC shouldn't be any different than BGP across a Ethernet cable AFAIK. Have you checked out the Alcatel-Lucent SR series routers? I'm supposed to be talking to one of their sales reps next week. They nare really trying to gain market share and i hear hey have some good deals. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Would a RB1000 and HP Procurve work? On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: Yikes $40k again. I am trying to come up with a sub $12k solution. On 09/11/2010 02:39 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: No I haven't. But I will look into it now. Let me know how your talk with the sales guys goes? On 09/11/2010 02:38 PM, Jon Auer wrote: That makes sense. BGP over a VPLS VC shouldn't be any different than BGP across a Ethernet cable AFAIK. Have you checked out the Alcatel-Lucent SR series routers? I'm supposed to be talking to one of their sales reps next week. They nare really trying to gain market share and i hear hey have some good deals. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am thinking its time to use a switch as a switch and a router as a router. I am thinking about using this for the MPLS backbone and put in actual 7200/7300 routers at locations where full BGP needs to be offered. What I haven't yet worked out is whether two routers can establish a BGP peering session over a VPLS VC. On 09/11/2010 01:25 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Beware of the TCAM size on that box. IIRC it hasn't been able to take full internet routes since 2008 because of that limitation. On Saturday, September 11, 2010, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: After many days of searching it looks like I found something in the sub $20k range. The ME-C6524GT-8S appears to do it all. On 09/08/2010 04:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 07:40:07PM -0400, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP Yep. I'd do either some sort of combination of multihop bgp or VLANs to the customers needing bgp routing. VLANs really are quite simple at least on procurve switches and mikrotiks and junipers. VLANs reduce broadcast traffic on bridged networks so long as the vlans don't extend to places they are not needed. We have every sited routed with mikrotiks using private ASNs and BGP, but we also have procurve switches on most sites' backhauls, so we do extend a vlan across multiple sites if we want for a particular purpose, and everything else at the sites is routed. We have stayed away from using switches for L3 because of routing limitations and for CALEA; I think it's easier to capture traffic on a router than off a switch port, because if your switch has traffic duplication you'd still need a router to route the traffic back to the collection point. For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k We're using a Juniper J2350 with upgraded non-juniper RAM for 2 full BGP and presently 150+mbps of Internet. Comes with 4 1gbps ethernet ports. It was in the $2500 range iirc. There are switching features in it, but I haven't tried them. I bought it to do BGP. We can do a real nice MT for 1/3 that, but Mikrotik's BGP is not as well documented as Cisco/Juniper and we were willing to pay for software that was a little more mature/tested. We use MT BGP internally all the time, but that's a much smaller BGP network than the Internet of course. The j2350 will probably go to 300mbps perfectly fine and we'll upgrade again. There are a couple J series models that go higher performance than this and will be a lot cheaper than a M series chassis router. If you want up to date software and initial tech support, buying new is the way to go unfortunately. Unlike Cisco, you do get a reasonable period of tech support and software updates without buying a separate service contract. The BGP on this has been flawless. Juniper has a tool on their site to convert cisco configs to configs for their OS which was quite accurate. We upgraded from a Cisco 7507/rsp4 router which was running out of ram and steam and sucking too much power. You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
If you are looking for an all-in one thing you are almost going to have to go with a chassis from Cisco or Juniper or someone. I am a big fan of the 3 tier design though. The BGP routers should just be doing edge routing. The access and distribution layers should at least be logically separate. Surte its more overhead, but it accomplishes a few things. 1.A goof in configuration at one layer does not take down the whole network. 2.Upgrades are easier and usually cheaper in the long run. You are replacing a device(s) which have a semi-dedicated function. You don¹t have to have a device that has the horsepower to do 20 things. Instead it is doing, say, 10 things. If you are in need of full BGP routes your traffic must be increasing to the point a shift in thinking is needed. Reliability should be #1 and cost (to a degree) should be secondary. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.netwrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
On the bigger equipment, the switches are much more affordable than the routers, but the routers scale up much higher. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/8/2010 4:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Another option is a simple router - that does vlans - vlan to the switch and go from there :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Yeah that is an option, but increases the management overhead which is one of the primary things I am trying to reduce. On 09/08/2010 03:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: Another option is a simple router - that does vlans - vlan to the switch and go from there :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.net http://MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
It also adds points of failure, increases power consumption, etc. I'm sure Cisco or Juniper could handle it, but I'm not sure whom else. Maybe a PowerRouter? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/8/2010 5:17 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: Yeah that is an option, but increases the management overhead which is one of the primary things I am trying to reduce. On 09/08/2010 03:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: Another option is a simple router - that does vlans - vlan to the switch and go from there :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.nethttp://MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.commailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Cisco and Juniper are both failing to have a reasonable product. $60,000+ is a bit too expensive. On 09/08/2010 03:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: It also adds points of failure, increases power consumption, etc. I'm sure Cisco or Juniper could handle it, but I'm not sure whom else. Maybe a PowerRouter? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/8/2010 5:17 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: Yeah that is an option, but increases the management overhead which is one of the primary things I am trying to reduce. On 09/08/2010 03:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: Another option is a simple router - that does vlans - vlan to the switch and go from there :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.nethttp://MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.commailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
You could simply build a pfsense and/or a vyatta router with an alix board and a few nics - Let me do a few searches - and will let you know what I find On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: Cisco and Juniper are both failing to have a reasonable product. $60,000+ is a bit too expensive. On 09/08/2010 03:20 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: It also adds points of failure, increases power consumption, etc. I'm sure Cisco or Juniper could handle it, but I'm not sure whom else. Maybe a PowerRouter? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 9/8/2010 5:17 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: Yeah that is an option, but increases the management overhead which is one of the primary things I am trying to reduce. On 09/08/2010 03:13 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: Another option is a simple router - that does vlans - vlan to the switch and go from there :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Matt Jenkins wrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. On 09/08/2010 02:36 PM, David E. Smith wrote: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 16:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. Seems like an interesting combination of things there. If I may ask, why don't you leave the ring stuff and switching to the switches, and routing stuff like BGP to separate routers? It'll probably make things a lot easier to set up, and you'll be free to get the best switches and the best routers for your needs instead of trying to find something that's only so-so at either task. (Not intended as criticism, I'm actually kinda curious about this network layout.) David Smith MVN.nethttp://MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.commailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 17:09, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.netwrote: I have 8+ backhauls at some sites. I want to move from a bridged network to a routed network using MPLS. This would simplify handing off business ethernet connections. It would also reduce all of the broadcast traffic going across the backhauls and reduce the VLAN management required. But I cant find a router that has more than about 6 1000base-T ports so I was thinking a Layer 3 switch that has 1GB of ram might be easier to find. The switch would also have the backplane to handle the traffic. If you're going that route, it might be easier just to MPLS the BGP customers all the way back to your NOC (or another central point a couple steps removed from the towers), and do the BGP peering there. To the customer, it still should look like one Ethernet segment so they don't have to do multihop. Maybe still have a couple of these locations and multi-home their BGP sessions. They'll still get all the benefits of your fancy network, and suitable hardware will probably be a lot less expensive if you only have to buy a couple big routers for your BGP sessions instead of fitting it all into a large expensive switch. Anyway, I can't find anything in the low end of the Cisco line that offers that much RAM. No Catalyst gear, for instance. You'll likely need to look a bit higher up in the router space, honestly. Probably not Cisco CRS high, but this could be a fairly pricey project, which is why I'm trying to think of alternatives. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
On 8 September 2010 17:31, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. You don't necessarily need the switch to run BGP. You can have your custom add a static route or two to reach a BGP peer on your network. This is actually common practice, rather than peering directly with the providers customer facing access switch. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
A good starting point would be if Mikrotik would lay off the Linux on underpowered embedded hardware shtick for a dev cycle or two and make a board using the Broadcom BMC56330 chipset for Layer3 switching+MPLS/VPLS. If they can't port their software they could bolt on a existing OEM router OS like ZebOS... It feels like we are on the cusp of a routing revolution here. Chips for Layer3 switching seem to be far more commoditized than they were in the past where someone like Cisco would have to roll a ASIC. We just need a vendor to glue the pieces together an sell us something... The RB1100 is especially disappointing when you consider that they could have used a different switchchip and had 70Gbps of IPv4/v6 hardware routing, ACL processing, MPLS, etc and jacked the price up by a few K. /tangent On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
An RB1000 with an external switch will handle more traffic than RB1100. Rubens On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Francois Menard fmen...@xittel.net wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.com mailto:gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Is this going on a stick on in a building. We have an opensource Vyatta running circles around the old Vax 7200 stuff GigE even is not an issue - but used a Dell R300 with 8GB ram to do it. Still much cheaper than most anything else on the planet for the same config On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: e sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom _ Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com Email: gl...@hostmedic.com Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
What kind of PPS are you seeing on that setup? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Glenn Kelley gl...@hostmedic.com wrote: Is this going on a stick on in a building. We have an opensource Vyatta running circles around the old Vax 7200 stuff GigE even is not an issue - but used a Dell R300 with 8GB ram to do it. Still much cheaper than most anything else on the planet for the same config On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: e sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. How much can you build the Atom unit for? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
If you have a ring, don't do layer 3. Use L2 switch that have some form of rapid recovery that isn't spanning-tree based, and have 2 strong Layer 3 routers connected to it. An usual combination is Extreme pizza boxes with EAPS ring-protection, 2 Juniper M7i routers with VRRP, but many others will work. Rubens On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Matt Jenkins m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
We've built Supermicro 1U Atom boxes for under $600 to use as DNS servers. That was with 2x 2.5 inch hard drives. You'd probably run RouterOS off of a USB stick instead. That would save you around $120. Not much of a point to the RB1000 when a 1U Atom box is cheaper and can run rings around it in throughput. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:31 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. How much can you build the Atom unit for? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
That might be my next step. Interesting though - a couple years ago, I originally had a high end PC (for it's time - Athon 64 Dual-core X2 4200+ with 4GB of memory) running RouterOS. Swapped it out for a RB450G and in my opinion, the little 450G kicked the PC's butt. So now I'm skeptical. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Jon Auer j...@tapodi.net wrote: We've built Supermicro 1U Atom boxes for under $600 to use as DNS servers. That was with 2x 2.5 inch hard drives. You'd probably run RouterOS off of a USB stick instead. That would save you around $120. Not much of a point to the RB1000 when a 1U Atom box is cheaper and can run rings around it in throughput. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:31 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. How much can you build the Atom unit for? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Last one I built was less than $400. CPU on the RB1000 was over 30% compared to 10% on the ATOM unit, exact same traffic. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:31 PM, RickG wrote: I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. How much can you build the Atom unit for? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net mailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions?
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Any of the X86 based systems are going to kill the RB platform we have an X86 system moving 500Mbps of traffic (400Mbps x 100Mbps) on a daily basis... connection tracking on, queues, NAT rules, etc. and the CPU runs at 11% all day long. :) Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: That might be my next step. Interesting though - a couple years ago, I originally had a high end PC (for it's time - Athon 64 Dual-core X2 4200+ with 4GB of memory) running RouterOS. Swapped it out for a RB450G and in my opinion, the little 450G kicked the PC's butt. So now I'm skeptical. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Jon Auer j...@tapodi.net mailto:j...@tapodi.net wrote: We've built Supermicro 1U Atom boxes for under $600 to use as DNS servers. That was with 2x 2.5 inch hard drives. You'd probably run RouterOS off of a USB stick instead. That would save you around $120. Not much of a point to the RB1000 when a 1U Atom box is cheaper and can run rings around it in throughput. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:31 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I love mine but only pushin 20Mbps peak. Then again it was only $700. How much can you build the Atom unit for? On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net mailto:t...@ida.net wrote: The RB1000 is not much of a router when under load. You can build a 1u ATOM based system for less money that has 4x the horsepower. Travis Microserv On 9/8/2010 9:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Here http://www.routerboard.com/pdf/routerboard_performance_tests.pdf RB1100 says 121000 PPS @ 64 KBytes with Conntrack and Firewall (80 mbps) On and 11 PPS @ 1500Bytes (1.3 gbps) But again, this is a $400 box... F. Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this ring of backhauls. - Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ *Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com * Email: gl...@hostmedic.commailto:gl...@hostmedic.com
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
For the switch chip in the RB1100, I have some PPS numbers that I got from testing with a Spirent test set (same gear Cisco, etc use to determine their PPS numbers.) Keep in mind I'm still learning it so there may be some problem in my methodology. (Open SmartWindow, click test. :-) ) Half duplex eth6 to eth7. Eth6 is master-port for eth7. Frame Size, PPS 64, 148810 128, 84459 256, 45290 512, 23496 1024, 11973 1280, 9615 1518, 8127 That part that makes me go WTF is I'm seeing lower 64 byte packet PPS in switch mode than Mikrotik publishes for routing throughput. The 64 byte PPS that I show is the highest that it would go without getting malformed packets back from the RB1100. Odd things like packets being chopped in half and emitted as two separate (invalid) packets. Running in full duplex mode just made things worse. Again, I might have a bad test card (eBay :-( ) or be doing it wrong so if anyone has their own numbers I'd love to see them. I just don't trust the ones Mikrotik publishes. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: So here is a nice ref. document from Cisco, pps rating on their routers... Take a look at the PPS rating and the Max Mbps, (you still have to consider Memory etc etc.). http://www.cisco.com/web/partners/downloads/765/tools/quickreference/routerperformance.pdf I am not aware of a similar document from Juniper, however one there product brochure they do list pps performance number. Keep in mind they do packet handling very different from CISCO, as such are able to handle traffic better. Using Google, some sites show RB1000 is capable of doing 199,000 pps with Connect track off... check the Cisco Chart... that is about 100Mbps of traffic. I cannot find the PPS rating on RB1100... so if you know would love to compare... Also, I would like to ask Dennis to let us know if he has any comparison of what the PowerRouters can handle... Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 9:56 PM, Francois Menard wrote: Even RB1100 ? That would be my choice. 399$ for 13 GigE ports... F. On 2010-09-08, at 8:53 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Non of the sub $1000 appliances will cut the mustard at 300-500meg of traffic... 100meg no problem. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 8:44 PM, Glenn Kelley wrote: vyatta has a $799 routing appliance that will work - pfsense - on hardware will do it for free - (what an amazing price) :-) On Sep 8, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Welcome to the Mid-range of traffic handling... There is nothing on the market place that is affordable that will do what you are looking for. Best thing you can do is deploy two devices.. a Gig Switch, pick your favorite vendor... and a Core Router for BGP For Core Router in the Cisco world you are looking at something with a G1 or G2 engine ... (7206vxr or small 7301) range $5k to 10K on the used market place. In Juniper Land... M10i or an M20 (if you like redundancy...) cost on the secondary markets about $8 to $10k You could use a Mikrotik Power Router.. cost $ 2500 to $5000 Only the Cisco 7301 and Mikrotik are small and consume little power... Everything else is big and consumes power. Most common, cost efficient network design would be to use GigE Switches in a ring or your favorite network topology, with one or two Routers located at DataCenters or NOC... If you find some other solution, that can do what you are looking for, please share it with us, cause we have been looking too... what I am sharing above with you is what we have found so far. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 9/8/2010 7:16 PM, Jon Auer wrote: Needing full BGP routes takes you out of the realm of cheap Layer 3 switches... You need to worry about TCAM (hardware route memory) in addition to RAM on Layer 3 switches and apart from decked out Cisco 6500s or greater you aren't going to find that. The Juniper MX80 should work. It is 2U and can have 48 GigE ports. You should be able to get it for $30-50K. Alternatively you could try a multihop BGP setup like Cogent has been known to do. Setup one BGP session between the customer and your Layer 3 switch at the tower. This carriers a route for your border router/route reflector to the customer and vice versa. Then setup a BGP session between the customer and your border router/route reflector. Or you could drag MPLS into it but 2 simple BGP sessions seems like the most straightforward solution to me. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Matt Jenkinsm...@smarterbroadband.netmailto:m...@smarterbroadband.net wrote: I am trying to find a Layer 3 switch that has 24 or 48 1000 base-T ports with enough RAM to handle Full BGP Internet Routes. Anyone have any suggestions? For those who wonder why I am upgrading all of my backhauls to support ~300mbps. In addition I need to be able to offer BGP connections to customers from this
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Half duplex eth6 to eth7. Eth6 is master-port for eth7. Frame Size, PPS 64, 148810 This is 100M, isn't it ? 1Gbps connection could provide more, I think. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT: Looking for Layer 3 Switch with BGP?
Oh duh. That's line rate at 100M. The chopped packets must have been a negotiation side effect from going between 100M and Gig interfaces. I feel much better about it now, and quite stilly to have missed that. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Half duplex eth6 to eth7. Eth6 is master-port for eth7. Frame Size, PPS 64, 148810 This is 100M, isn't it ? 1Gbps connection could provide more, I think. Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
