Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Care to explain how that is illegal? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Actually, there was a law passed a couple years ago that prevented this very thing. They cannot stop Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Level 3, or Joe's Crab Shack Internet Service from installing cables from outside into their suite. They can make it costly and they can make it a PITA, but they must allow their installation. The flip side of this issue is property own only allowing Bob's Telecom, which is excessively priced because Bob and Jim (your landlord) are brothers. That is illegal. Same situation as we're talking about here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Hello Mike, Have to step in here and disagree. Private property. If they don't want you they can keep you out one way or another. This may not sit well with some, but it is the proper thing to do. The market will always sort these type of issues out themselves without third party or government intervention. This is no different than comparing any property amenity. Property A has XYZ vs. Property B doesn't. Some will find the XYZ amenity important and opt for Property A over B. If enough people do then you can bet Property B will find a way to add XYZ or a comparable amenity. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Limits I realize that is the way it is supposed to happen, but that hasn't happened here. We have Office space in Bishop Ranch, San Ramon CA. We are not allowed in the MPOE, and apparently others aren't either. We have been able to get T-1s pulled in, and then we gave handed the authorized personnel the other end of our Cat 5 to punch down and connect our Service Providers T-1's. When we asked Time Warner about the fiber, they sent us a map, showing fiber at the sidewalk, less than 100 feet away, and they claimed that Bishop Ranch wouldn't lt them in the MPOE, so they couldn't deliver. Maybe someone has bogus information? John Mike Hammett wrote: If you want their service, they can't restrict you, AFAIK. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I need a few people to run a bandwidth test tomeplease... As they say, your mileage may vary We have a 2xT1 that we pay $560 per month for, and the routing/peering at TW Telecom is good, but then again, we are in the San Francisco Bay Area. If the building owners would have let TW Telecom into this buildings MPOE's we would have a 10 meg fiber circuit and be paying about $700 for it. The fiber is at the curb, but Bishop Ranch won't let TW Telecom in John Matt Liotta wrote: Personally, I wouldn't go with TW Telecom for bandwidth. They tend to be overly pricy and their peering is too selective. In a case where the city you are located in doesn't have good peering such as Orlando you need to carefully select your upstream. In the case of TW Telecom, they have hardly any peers in Atlanta, which is the closest major peering point to you. This causes most of your US based traffic to flow through Ashburn or Dallas. -Matt On May 14, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Just download a file via http from our web server at http://208.65.55.55/dummy.zip and then http://64.128.251.33/dummy.zip Then email me with how fast each went and a traceroute from you to just one of the servers please (they take same route). If you are not capable of downloading at 20MB on the Internet then the data is not too useful for me... Thank you I appreciate your time and assistance. Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Hello Mike, The bottom line - the end game - after all is said and done, the property owner will have his way and he should. After all it is his private property and if he doesn't want to offer XYZ amenity then he shouldn't be forced to. It should be his decision and only his decision and the market will reward or punish him as such. There is nothing forcing a particular tenant to lease space in Bishop Ranch. I would venture to guess there are other office parks in California, right? The tenant has options and that is what makes capitalism work so well. BTW, Bishop Ranch looks like an awesome development. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Care to explain how that is illegal? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Actually, there was a law passed a couple years ago that prevented this very thing. They cannot stop Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Level 3, or Joe's Crab Shack Internet Service from installing cables from outside into their suite. They can make it costly and they can make it a PITA, but they must allow their installation. The flip side of this issue is property own only allowing Bob's Telecom, which is excessively priced because Bob and Jim (your landlord) are brothers. That is illegal. Same situation as we're talking about here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Hello Mike, Have to step in here and disagree. Private property. If they don't want you they can keep you out one way or another. This may not sit well with some, but it is the proper thing to do. The market will always sort these type of issues out themselves without third party or government intervention. This is no different than comparing any property amenity. Property A has XYZ vs. Property B doesn't. Some will find the XYZ amenity important and opt for Property A over B. If enough people do then you can bet Property B will find a way to add XYZ or a comparable amenity. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Limits I realize that is the way it is supposed to happen, but that hasn't happened here. We have Office space in Bishop Ranch, San Ramon CA. We are not allowed in the MPOE, and apparently others aren't either. We have been able to get T-1s pulled in, and then we gave handed the authorized personnel the other end of our Cat 5 to punch down and connect our Service Providers T-1's. When we asked Time Warner about the fiber, they sent us a map, showing fiber at the sidewalk, less than 100 feet away, and they claimed that Bishop Ranch wouldn't lt them in the MPOE, so they couldn't deliver. Maybe someone has bogus information? John Mike Hammett wrote: If you want their service, they can't restrict you, AFAIK. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I need a few people to run a bandwidth test tomeplease... As they say, your mileage may vary We have a 2xT1 that we pay $560 per month for, and the routing/peering at TW Telecom is good, but then again, we are in the San Francisco Bay Area. If the building owners would have let TW Telecom into this buildings MPOE's we would have a 10 meg fiber circuit and be paying about $700 for it. The fiber is at the curb, but Bishop Ranch won't let TW Telecom in John Matt Liotta wrote: Personally, I wouldn't go with TW Telecom for bandwidth. They tend to be overly pricy and their peering is too selective. In a case where the city you are located in doesn't have good peering such as Orlando you need to carefully select your upstream. In the case of TW Telecom, they have hardly any peers in Atlanta, which is the closest major peering point to you. This causes most of your US based traffic to flow through Ashburn or Dallas. -Matt On May 14, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Just download a file via http from our web server at http://208.65.55.55/dummy.zip and then http://64.128.251.33/dummy.zip Then email
[WISPA] new WISPA website
Hi guys! Nice new website! Congratulations! Just curious ... what is the backend? Wordpress? ... or another content management system? We're looking to upgrade our own website and are evaluating a number of options Thanks! Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new WISPA website
Yes it is WordPress. There are a few scripts added such as the Footer Ad Rotator which are not WordPress, I'm not sure what language it was written in. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Greene Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] new WISPA website Hi guys! Nice new website! Congratulations! Just curious ... what is the backend? Wordpress? ... or another content management system? We're looking to upgrade our own website and are evaluating a number of options Thanks! Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2125 - Release Date: 05/21/09 06:22:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new WISPA website
I'm a big fan of e107. www.e107.org. -Cameron -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] new WISPA website Yes it is WordPress. There are a few scripts added such as the Footer Ad Rotator which are not WordPress, I'm not sure what language it was written in. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Greene Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] new WISPA website Hi guys! Nice new website! Congratulations! Just curious ... what is the backend? Wordpress? ... or another content management system? We're looking to upgrade our own website and are evaluating a number of options Thanks! Adam WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2125 - Release Date: 05/21/09 06:22:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
I'd have a more authoritative source, but The normal FCC website is temporarily unavailable due to technical difficulties. We are working to restore the full FCC website back to normal as soon as possible. Residential telecom was banned on March 21st, 2008. Commercial telecom was banned October 12, 2000. The October 12, 2000 ruling also put fixed wireless under OTARD's umbrella. http://www.wcsr.com/resources/pdfs/telecomm032608.pdf http://www.dlapiper.com/us/publications/detail.aspx?pub=3094 - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:30 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Care to explain how that is illegal? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Actually, there was a law passed a couple years ago that prevented this very thing. They cannot stop Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Level 3, or Joe's Crab Shack Internet Service from installing cables from outside into their suite. They can make it costly and they can make it a PITA, but they must allow their installation. The flip side of this issue is property own only allowing Bob's Telecom, which is excessively priced because Bob and Jim (your landlord) are brothers. That is illegal. Same situation as we're talking about here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Hello Mike, Have to step in here and disagree. Private property. If they don't want you they can keep you out one way or another. This may not sit well with some, but it is the proper thing to do. The market will always sort these type of issues out themselves without third party or government intervention. This is no different than comparing any property amenity. Property A has XYZ vs. Property B doesn't. Some will find the XYZ amenity important and opt for Property A over B. If enough people do then you can bet Property B will find a way to add XYZ or a comparable amenity. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Limits I realize that is the way it is supposed to happen, but that hasn't happened here. We have Office space in Bishop Ranch, San Ramon CA. We are not allowed in the MPOE, and apparently others aren't either. We have been able to get T-1s pulled in, and then we gave handed the authorized personnel the other end of our Cat 5 to punch down and connect our Service Providers T-1's. When we asked Time Warner about the fiber, they sent us a map, showing fiber at the sidewalk, less than 100 feet away, and they claimed that Bishop Ranch wouldn't lt them in the MPOE, so they couldn't deliver. Maybe someone has bogus information? John Mike Hammett wrote: If you want their service, they can't restrict you, AFAIK. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Thomas jtho...@quarnet.com Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] I need a few people to run a bandwidth test tomeplease... As they say, your mileage may vary We have a 2xT1 that we pay $560 per month for, and the routing/peering at TW Telecom is good, but then again, we are in the San Francisco Bay Area. If the building owners would have let TW Telecom into this buildings MPOE's we would have a 10 meg fiber circuit and be paying about $700 for it. The fiber is at the curb, but Bishop Ranch won't let TW Telecom in John Matt Liotta wrote: Personally, I wouldn't go with TW Telecom for bandwidth. They tend to be overly pricy and their peering is too selective. In a case where the city you are located in doesn't have good peering such as Orlando you need to carefully select your upstream. In the case of TW Telecom, they have hardly any peers in Atlanta, which is the closest major peering point to you. This causes most of your US based traffic to flow through Ashburn or Dallas. -Matt On May 14, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Scott Carullo wrote: Just download a file via http from our web server at http://208.65.55.55/dummy.zip and then http://64.128.251.33/dummy.zip Then email me with how fast each went and a
[WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Hello Mike, Still doesn't mean the property owner can't keep you out. Again, bottom line after all is said and done the property owner WILL prevail one way or another. Again, it is his private property and should be this way. If the property A doesn't have covered parking, but property B does and covered parking is important to you then lease from property B. This is no different than if a property has Mike's Internet or not. If you desire Mike's Internet then find a property that has Mike's Internet or a property that will allow Mike's Internet to be installed. Otherwise lease elsewhere. If this happens often enough than I guarantee the property owner will find a way to get Mike's Internet, so that they can close on more leasing opportunities. This isn't rocket science. The market always works these issues out in the end. There is no law stating the property owner has to lease to you or renew a tenant lease. So, they may get to hang that DSS dish eye sore off the front of the building on their balcony for a while, but when their lease comes up they'll be gone and so will that dish. In the end the property owner will prevail as they should. You will always attract more bees with honey vs. vinegar. Trying to force yourself into a property citing FCC rules etc, etc will be your first and last mistake with a landlord. Word spreads quickly of such tactics around town and within BOMA. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits I'd have a more authoritative source, but The normal FCC website is temporarily unavailable due to technical difficulties. We are working to restore the full FCC website back to normal as soon as possible. Residential telecom was banned on March 21st, 2008. Commercial telecom was banned October 12, 2000. The October 12, 2000 ruling also put fixed wireless under OTARD's umbrella. http://www.wcsr.com/resources/pdfs/telecomm032608.pdf http://www.dlapiper.com/us/publications/detail.aspx?pub=3094 - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:30 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Care to explain how that is illegal? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Actually, there was a law passed a couple years ago that prevented this very thing. They cannot stop Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Level 3, or Joe's Crab Shack Internet Service from installing cables from outside into their suite. They can make it costly and they can make it a PITA, but they must allow their installation. The flip side of this issue is property own only allowing Bob's Telecom, which is excessively priced because Bob and Jim (your landlord) are brothers. That is illegal. Same situation as we're talking about here. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:11 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Hello Mike, Have to step in here and disagree. Private property. If they don't want you they can keep you out one way or another. This may not sit well with some, but it is the proper thing to do. The market will always sort these type of issues out themselves without third party or government intervention. This is no different than comparing any property amenity. Property A has XYZ vs. Property B doesn't. Some will find the XYZ amenity important and opt for Property A over B. If enough people do then you can bet Property B will find a way to add XYZ or a comparable amenity. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of John Thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Limits I realize that is the way it is supposed to happen, but that hasn't happened here. We have Office space in Bishop Ranch, San Ramon CA. We are not allowed in the MPOE, and apparently others aren't either. We have been able to get T-1s pulled in, and then we gave handed the authorized personnel the other end of our Cat 5 to punch down and connect our Service Providers T-1's. When we asked Time Warner about the fiber, they sent us a map, showing fiber at the sidewalk, less than 100 feet away, and they claimed that Bishop
[WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Your argument assumes issues such as anti-trust don't exist. The market is not always right especially when you have monopoly issues to deal with. In the case of telecom, we have competitive issues that the market has been unable to historically solve. See the breakup of ATT and more recently the 1996 telecom act. Now more to your point. The most ideal situation is for property owners to come to mutual acceptable agreements with telecom providers who need to access to their private property. That isn't always possible, but to imply that the property owner will always win is shorted-sighted. There are many cases where both the telecom provider AND the property owner can lose. One example of just the property owner losing, is the case of placing an antenna in exclusively controlled space where OTARD applies; the property owner regularly loses. If like you suggest a property owner gets rid of a tenant because of a dish, the tenant at no expensive can complain to the FCC. The property owner will then at their own expense have to argue before the FCC that they didn't violate OTARD. Understand the immense downside facing a property owner in this case. FCC rules trump almost all others including contract law. In fact, the only way to overturn an FCC decision regarding OTARD is an act of Congress. The best part of OTARD is that while the case is pending the property owner losing some of their property rights related to the tenant in question. At the end of the day, the problem with property owners is that they let in the monopolies for free and charge the competitors. Tenants should have access to competitive telecom providers. The property owner should receive compensation from telecom providers for access to their property. But, because the property owner can't get away with charging the monopoly they stick it to the competitive providers. This ensures that only the monopolies win. What we need is some basic market regulation. Property owners should be able to charge fair and reasonable access fees AND the monopolies should be required to pay them. At the same time, if the monopolies are going to be required to pay for access then all the other providers should be given access assuming they pay the same fees. This gives tenants choice, property owners compensation, and telecom providers an even playing field. -Matt On May 21, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Brad Belton wrote: Hello Mike, Still doesn't mean the property owner can't keep you out. Again, bottom line after all is said and done the property owner WILL prevail one way or another. Again, it is his private property and should be this way. If the property A doesn't have covered parking, but property B does and covered parking is important to you then lease from property B. This is no different than if a property has Mike's Internet or not. If you desire Mike's Internet then find a property that has Mike's Internet or a property that will allow Mike's Internet to be installed. Otherwise lease elsewhere. If this happens often enough than I guarantee the property owner will find a way to get Mike's Internet, so that they can close on more leasing opportunities. This isn't rocket science. The market always works these issues out in the end. There is no law stating the property owner has to lease to you or renew a tenant lease. So, they may get to hang that DSS dish eye sore off the front of the building on their balcony for a while, but when their lease comes up they'll be gone and so will that dish. In the end the property owner will prevail as they should. You will always attract more bees with honey vs. vinegar. Trying to force yourself into a property citing FCC rules etc, etc will be your first and last mistake with a landlord. Word spreads quickly of such tactics around town and within BOMA. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits I'd have a more authoritative source, but The normal FCC website is temporarily unavailable due to technical difficulties. We are working to restore the full FCC website back to normal as soon as possible. Residential telecom was banned on March 21st, 2008. Commercial telecom was banned October 12, 2000. The October 12, 2000 ruling also put fixed wireless under OTARD's umbrella. http://www.wcsr.com/resources/pdfs/telecomm032608.pdf http://www.dlapiper.com/us/publications/detail.aspx?pub=3094 - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:30 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re:
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Your argument makes the assumption there are no other options for a tenant other than the property in question. This is really no different than restaurants that allow smoking vs. restaurants that don't allow smoking. If you want to smoke you will dine at restaurants that allow smoking and the ones that forbid smoking won't get your business. This works for the non-smokers too. Personally I'm a non-smoker and dine at either smoking or non-smoking restaurants, but we all know people that are adamant on both sides of the issue. Regarding your tenant lease renewal example, doubt the property owner will make publicly known (regardless as to the reason) why he chooses not to renew a tenant's lease. Is there a law I'm unaware of that forces a landlord to give reason for not renewing a lease? Eviction, sure, but not for renewals. Have you ever read a lease agreement closely? They are always heavily weighted towards the landlord vs. the tenant as they should be. Again, there is nothing forcing a tenant to lease there as they can always lease elsewhere. There are many limitations that can prevent the number of providers in one property. Riser space or roof space may be limited among many other limitations. Roof or other building warranties may be voided if the new provider is negligent or even if they aren't negligent. Insurance requirements will need to meet the property owner's requirements. The property owner can essentially make it cost prohibitive for you to enter the property if they choose to do so. Again, in the end the property owner will prevail as they should. It is after all their property and they should have final say what happens to their property. If their decisions are poor and result in lost lease revenue than they'll be gone soon enough and maybe the new owner will see the benefit to allowing the right additional providers into the property. The market always works these issues out themselves. If you are truly offering a better product that is desirable then all of this is a moot point. The problem is today (due to our current government nanny state) any Joe Shmo can call themselves a Telco Provider. Savvy property owners should, can and will keep those out that they don't see as a benefit. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Your argument assumes issues such as anti-trust don't exist. The market is not always right especially when you have monopoly issues to deal with. In the case of telecom, we have competitive issues that the market has been unable to historically solve. See the breakup of ATT and more recently the 1996 telecom act. Now more to your point. The most ideal situation is for property owners to come to mutual acceptable agreements with telecom providers who need to access to their private property. That isn't always possible, but to imply that the property owner will always win is shorted-sighted. There are many cases where both the telecom provider AND the property owner can lose. One example of just the property owner losing, is the case of placing an antenna in exclusively controlled space where OTARD applies; the property owner regularly loses. If like you suggest a property owner gets rid of a tenant because of a dish, the tenant at no expensive can complain to the FCC. The property owner will then at their own expense have to argue before the FCC that they didn't violate OTARD. Understand the immense downside facing a property owner in this case. FCC rules trump almost all others including contract law. In fact, the only way to overturn an FCC decision regarding OTARD is an act of Congress. The best part of OTARD is that while the case is pending the property owner losing some of their property rights related to the tenant in question. At the end of the day, the problem with property owners is that they let in the monopolies for free and charge the competitors. Tenants should have access to competitive telecom providers. The property owner should receive compensation from telecom providers for access to their property. But, because the property owner can't get away with charging the monopoly they stick it to the competitive providers. This ensures that only the monopolies win. What we need is some basic market regulation. Property owners should be able to charge fair and reasonable access fees AND the monopolies should be required to pay them. At the same time, if the monopolies are going to be required to pay for access then all the other providers should be given access assuming they pay the same fees. This gives tenants choice, property owners compensation, and telecom providers an even playing field. -Matt On May 21, 2009, at 11:24 AM, Brad Belton wrote: Hello Mike, Still doesn't
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
This Congressman is an idiot. His own statements makes no sense. They are providing a utility and frankly you should not be able to impose cascading rate increases without justifying them, Massa said. What Time Warner is saying is not true and their own SEC filings show that. This is AIG-style greed. (They are providing a utility) What utility is there that you pay the same fee no matter how much you use it. Water, telephone, cellular, Gas, Electric. I would love to pay $39.99 a month for my gas bill no matter how much of it I use. Sure my bill this month was $13. But in Jan when it was $185. Guess the Gas company is just AIG-style Greedy. Guess there is another Option we could get the government to take over all the upstream providers and give us unlimited bandwidth at no cost. Then I could afford to build up and not worry about bandwidth costs. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
On May 21, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Brad Belton wrote: Your argument makes the assumption there are no other options for a tenant other than the property in question. No it doesn't make that assumption. Tenants make long term decisions related to property leases. In many cases, the tenant makes assumptions and expectations about their use of the property without getting those assumptions and expectations in a lease document. Further, the property owner does a similar thing and as such has certain liabilities that aren't protected in their leases. All of this is because generally the people negotiating the leases aren't savvy with technology. A perfect case in point is Wi-Fi. I know of no major REITs that have clauses in their leases regarding Wi-Fi or indeed inference issues. Yet, every company I know plans to have a Wi-Fi network deployed in their leased space. Now if you assume that an MTU is going to have multiple tenants that all are going to deploy Wi-Fi in close proximity you have a natural interference issue. In fact, with today's 802.11N you now have less overlapping channels then you did before. Couple this with many enterprise Wi-Fi vendors including rogue AP detection and mitigation features that attempt to disable Wi-Fi APs over the air. Clearly a war is brewing between tenants' Wi-Fi networks that can only result in multiple tenants becoming unhappy with the interference. It will fall to the property owner to resolve the issue. Yet the property owner doesn't have any legal standing to force tenants to deploy their Wi-Fi networks in any particular way. This is really no different than restaurants that allow smoking vs. restaurants that don't allow smoking. If you want to smoke you will dine at restaurants that allow smoking and the ones that forbid smoking won't get your business. This works for the non-smokers too. Personally I'm a non-smoker and dine at either smoking or non-smoking restaurants, but we all know people that are adamant on both sides of the issue. It is quite different actually. Again, telecom issues are almost never dealt with until after the lease has been signed. I can't tell you how many deals we get because tenants signed a lease and need telecom services delivered, but their preferred vendor is unable to deliver in time or in budget due to construction issues. Regarding your tenant lease renewal example, doubt the property owner will make publicly known (regardless as to the reason) why he chooses not to renew a tenant's lease. Is there a law I'm unaware of that forces a landlord to give reason for not renewing a lease? Eviction, sure, but not for renewals. Have you ever read a lease agreement closely? They are always heavily weighted towards the landlord vs. the tenant as they should be. Again, there is nothing forcing a tenant to lease there as they can always lease elsewhere. I shutter to think about the shear number of lease agreements I have signed, so I have a pretty good idea about the process and standard terms. You argue the tenant will never know. Yet, my experience is that landlords are all to eager to tell a tenant why. There are many limitations that can prevent the number of providers in one property. Riser space or roof space may be limited among many other limitations. Roof or other building warranties may be voided if the new provider is negligent or even if they aren't negligent. Insurance requirements will need to meet the property owner's requirements. The property owner can essentially make it cost prohibitive for you to enter the property if they choose to do so. Maybe; I have never seen it with any large REIT. Little property owners often try and fail. Again, in the end the property owner will prevail as they should. It is after all their property and they should have final say what happens to their property. If their decisions are poor and result in lost lease revenue than they'll be gone soon enough and maybe the new owner will see the benefit to allowing the right additional providers into the property. Depending on what you mean by prevail. I have had my share of property owners win the battle and lose the war so to speak. The market always works these issues out themselves. No it doesn't. Again, see the Sherman Act for generic anti-trust issues and the 1996 Telecom Act for specific competitive issues relating to our industry. In both cases, the government was forced to act because the market couldn't work it out for themselves. If you are truly offering a better product that is desirable then all of this is a moot point. The problem is today (due to our current government nanny state) any Joe Shmo can call themselves a Telco Provider. Savvy property owners should, can and will keep those out that they don't see as a benefit. If that was only the case. There may be
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
One of our utility bills is the same cost every month of the year. Don't know if it is unlimited or not, though. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:05 PM, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My water utility offers unlimited service (at least for now). However, they only provide a 1 pipe to me. I am happy to provide unlimited service to my customers. 3mbps pipe for a while.. then a 56kbps pipe as much as they want! That's right folks! I am offering a 56kbps pipe UNLIMITED! :) ryan Steve Barnes wrote: This Congressman is an idiot. His own statements makes no sense. They are providing a utility and frankly you should not be able to impose cascading rate increases without justifying them, Massa said. What Time Warner is saying is not true and their own SEC filings show that. This is AIG-style greed. (They are providing a utility) What utility is there that you pay the same fee no matter how much you use it. Water, telephone, cellular, Gas, Electric. I would love to pay $39.99 a month for my gas bill no matter how much of it I use. Sure my bill this month was $13. But in Jan when it was $185. Guess the Gas company is just AIG-style Greedy. Guess there is another Option we could get the government to take over all the upstream providers and give us unlimited bandwidth at no cost. Then I could afford to build up and not worry about bandwidth costs. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
How about we tell them that it is absolutely none of their freaking business... Politely, of course. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; motor...@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
On 5/21/2009 8:00 AM, Matt wrote: Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Answers in-line. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money, that's what we've done. 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? I could not qualify for any of them. 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) Never sought any. 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit.In fact, the credit crunch start last Fall raised my 30+ day past due amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just four months. That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping by until our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still several thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at. 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow. We have plenty of people waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them. 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility contacted, we have not done any business with them. In my estimation, they wanted control over our business and day to day decisions, which we concluded was both unwarranted and unwise. Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? WISP equipment is not really a commodity in that there is almost no market for it outside of the maker-vendor relationship. Other than Ebay, and a couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no market which stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you can borrow against. Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get capital and create stable working and short term credit relationships with their buyers, kind of like the used car market. -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
My electric bill is the same every month regardless of how much I use. My wife used to work for the electric company and discovered that you can do bill averaging for the year, based on last years bill. That means that high usage for AC or whatever in whatever month does not kill you that month. Makes it easier to budget. Each bill shows what you are paying and what the actual charge is. So it might look something like this: Jan Actual: $75 payment: $100. Feb Actual: $75 payment: $100. Mar Actual: $75 payment: $100. Apr Actual: $75 payment: $100. May Actual: $75 payment: $100. Jun Actual: $75 payment: $100. Jul Actual: $75 payment: $100. Aug Actual: $400 payment: $100. _ AC unit comes on full blast. They re-analyze your usage for the next years monthly payments at the end of the year. Works pretty well.. Now if only bandwidth usage did that sort of thing!... wait! K12 does that! ryan Josh Luthman wrote: One of our utility bills is the same cost every month of the year. Don't know if it is unlimited or not, though. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:05 PM, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My water utility offers unlimited service (at least for now). However, they only provide a 1 pipe to me. I am happy to provide unlimited service to my customers. 3mbps pipe for a while.. then a 56kbps pipe as much as they want! That's right folks! I am offering a 56kbps pipe UNLIMITED! :) ryan Steve Barnes wrote: This Congressman is an idiot. His own statements makes no sense. They are providing a utility and frankly you should not be able to impose cascading rate increases without justifying them, Massa said. What Time Warner is saying is not true and their own SEC filings show that. This is AIG-style greed. (They are providing a utility) What utility is there that you pay the same fee no matter how much you use it. Water, telephone, cellular, Gas, Electric. I would love to pay $39.99 a month for my gas bill no matter how much of it I use. Sure my bill this month was $13. But in Jan when it was $185. Guess the Gas company is just AIG-style Greedy. Guess there is another Option we could get the government to take over all the upstream providers and give us unlimited bandwidth at no cost. Then I could afford to build up and not worry about bandwidth costs. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
Oops, sorry for the blank reply, I hit the wrong keys. On 5/21/2009 8:00 AM, Matt wrote: Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. Personally, I can't EVEN imagine that such a law could stand up to basic reasoning. But think about it. If such a law was attempted, where would they draw the line? Telling any ISP that they can't use bandwidth management techniques is about like telling Comcast that they must lift bandwidth limits on cable service. Since cable has an ENORMOUS amount of potential bandwidth, the same problem occurs; a few abusive users suck the life out of the entire network because everyone gets a gig of bandwidth. I tell my customers that unlimited doesn't exist and never has. They try to argue that their other service was unlimited. When it is revealed that said other service had a fraction of the bandwidth that I'm now delivering to them, it becomes apparent that the previous service was in fact severely limited by its inherent slow speed. Dial-up was of course the first so called unlimited service, yet was in fact the most severely limited. The way I deal with it is to show them my service/consumption matrix. For example, if I deliver 4meg symmetrical and they sign up for residential service, they are expected to have roughly the same duty cycle as the rest of the residential group, within reason. If they sign up for residential and throttle it to 100% 24/7, that's not residential usage; at the end of the month they'll find that their speed has been reduced to about what they'd get from typical DSL which in turn keeps such a customer's monthly throughput within my guidelines for residential service. This way I keep abusers from abusing. And even in the very few cases I've seen it happen, the customer is more than happy to continue on like that. Conversely, if their usage falls back to the roughly 5% duty cycle normally seen on residential customers, they'll find that their speed went back to 4 meg. I give them one or the other, but not both. My explanation has always been well understood. Unlimited doesn't exist. Unless of course I'm talking to the 95% of people with common sense! cackle Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
On 5/21/2009 10:05 AM, D. Ryan Spott wrote: My water utility offers unlimited service (at least for now). However, they only provide a 1 pipe to me. Being in an ag region, I use this exact analogy in my explanation of my throttling matrix. I tell them that yea, you could in fact irrigate that 200 acres of almonds with your 1 residential service, but expect a lot of dead trees. To do a business grade effort, you need that 80HP ditch pump and 8 infrastructure. Which of course comes with the associated higher cost. The farmers all understand that one! Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Now, what about if you can not smoke a cigar in a smoking restaurant? * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Brad Belton wrote: Your argument makes the assumption there are no other options for a tenant other than the property in question. This is really no different than restaurants that allow smoking vs. restaurants that don't allow smoking. If you want to smoke you will dine at restaurants that allow smoking and the ones that forbid smoking won't get your business. This works for the non-smokers too. Personally I'm a non-smoker and dine at either smoking or non-smoking restaurants, but we all know people that are adamant on both sides of the issue. Regarding your tenant lease renewal example, doubt the property owner will make publicly known (regardless as to the reason) why he chooses not to renew a tenant's lease. Is there a law I'm unaware of that forces a landlord to give reason for not renewing a lease? Eviction, sure, but not for renewals. Have you ever read a lease agreement closely? They are always heavily weighted towards the landlord vs. the tenant as they should be. Again, there is nothing forcing a tenant to lease there as they can always lease elsewhere. There are many limitations that can prevent the number of providers in one property. Riser space or roof space may be limited among many other limitations. Roof or other building warranties may be voided if the new provider is negligent or even if they aren't negligent. Insurance requirements will need to meet the property owner's requirements. The property owner can essentially make it cost prohibitive for you to enter the property if they choose to do so. Again, in the end the property owner will prevail as they should. It is after all their property and they should have final say what happens to their property. If their decisions are poor and result in lost lease revenue than they'll be gone soon enough and maybe the new owner will see the benefit to allowing the right additional providers into the property. The market always works these issues out themselves. If you are truly offering a better product that is desirable then all of this is a moot point. The problem is today (due to our current government nanny state) any Joe Shmo can call themselves a Telco Provider. Savvy property owners should, can and will keep those out that they don't see as a benefit. Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Your argument assumes issues such as anti-trust don't exist. The market is not always right especially when you have monopoly issues to deal with. In the case of telecom, we have competitive issues that the market has been unable to historically solve. See the breakup of ATT and more recently the 1996 telecom act. Now more to your point. The most ideal situation is for property owners to come to mutual acceptable agreements with telecom providers who need to access to their private property. That isn't always possible, but to imply that the property owner will always win is shorted-sighted. There are many cases where both the telecom provider AND the property owner can lose. One example of just the property owner losing, is the case of placing an antenna in exclusively controlled space where OTARD applies; the property owner regularly loses. If like you suggest a property owner gets rid of a tenant because of a dish, the tenant at no expensive can complain to the FCC. The property owner will then at their own expense have to argue before the FCC that they didn't violate OTARD. Understand the immense downside facing a property owner in this case. FCC rules trump almost all others including contract law. In fact, the only way to overturn an FCC decision regarding OTARD is an act of Congress. The best
[WISPA] Just for a laugh
-- * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh
http://www.break.com/pictures/internet-building727205.html How about the link :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
Well my electric does that too. But in march is my make up month and if my usage is less than what I have paid I get a free month if it s more then I get a bill for the difference. This year I had to make up $435 in the month of march. But that is still a budget so if we did that with wireless then every year we would get the option to raise their bill guess who would find a new service. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps My electric bill is the same every month regardless of how much I use. My wife used to work for the electric company and discovered that you can do bill averaging for the year, based on last years bill. That means that high usage for AC or whatever in whatever month does not kill you that month. Makes it easier to budget. Each bill shows what you are paying and what the actual charge is. So it might look something like this: Jan Actual: $75 payment: $100. Feb Actual: $75 payment: $100. Mar Actual: $75 payment: $100. Apr Actual: $75 payment: $100. May Actual: $75 payment: $100. Jun Actual: $75 payment: $100. Jul Actual: $75 payment: $100. Aug Actual: $400 payment: $100. _ AC unit comes on full blast. They re-analyze your usage for the next years monthly payments at the end of the year. Works pretty well.. Now if only bandwidth usage did that sort of thing!... wait! K12 does that! ryan Josh Luthman wrote: One of our utility bills is the same cost every month of the year. Don't know if it is unlimited or not, though. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 1:05 PM, D. Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My water utility offers unlimited service (at least for now). However, they only provide a 1 pipe to me. I am happy to provide unlimited service to my customers. 3mbps pipe for a while.. then a 56kbps pipe as much as they want! That's right folks! I am offering a 56kbps pipe UNLIMITED! :) ryan Steve Barnes wrote: This Congressman is an idiot. His own statements makes no sense. They are providing a utility and frankly you should not be able to impose cascading rate increases without justifying them, Massa said. What Time Warner is saying is not true and their own SEC filings show that. This is AIG-style greed. (They are providing a utility) What utility is there that you pay the same fee no matter how much you use it. Water, telephone, cellular, Gas, Electric. I would love to pay $39.99 a month for my gas bill no matter how much of it I use. Sure my bill this month was $13. But in Jan when it was $185. Guess the Gas company is just AIG-style Greedy. Guess there is another Option we could get the government to take over all the upstream providers and give us unlimited bandwidth at no cost. Then I could afford to build up and not worry about bandwidth costs. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Local County Fair
Something easy would be to use OpenDNS on that machine.seems to work fairly well. On 5/20/09 12:44 PM, Vickie Edwards vedwa...@inline.com wrote: I think that would be a better idea... redirect those domains to a splash screen saying that the connection is for demo purposes only. Maybe allow something like Hulu to go through, so that you could show streaming speed (not YouTube, obviously), but keep the social networking sites blocked. Also, I'd suggest posting a sign asking people to limit their time to 10 minutes since it's a demo, and require that children be accompanied by a parent or guardian. After all, you don't want them to discover that YOU are letting their precious snowflakes view adult content on the demo machines - that would be a business killer. InLine vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist InLine Connections Solutions Through Technology 600 Lakeshore Pkwy Birmingham AL, 35209 205-278-8106 [p] 205-941-1934[f] vedwa...@inline.com www.InLine.com All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Kennedy Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Local County Fair Or just block myspace, facebook, twitter, etc. on those computers On 5/19/09 6:21 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: You might try just doing free wifi hotspots for people around the fair. Force them to a splash page that tells them you are giving the wireless away and that you can provide it to their homes (for a fee) as well. Beyond that, you might try getting a flyer in all of the fair stuff etc. I'd also not be afraid of keeping the kids off of the computers. At least make them have a parent with them. That'll keep the crowds down so that the adults will be able to get to you etc. have fun! marlon - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 6:28 AM Subject: [WISPA] Local County Fair Being a very Rural WISP 90% of my clients and potential clients will attend the local County 4-H fair. For years I have had a booth in the commercial building. I setup a really sharp booth (trade-show type) and a fancy computer that I sell in my shop and 2 small systems as WIFI demo units. What I end up with is from 12 noon to 9:00 in the evening I have to have staff there to baby sit the 4-H kids who are board and want to sit and play on YouTube, Facebook, and MySpace. The last 2 years we have not sold a single computer, and have setup few wireless clients. It is great PR. People ask questions when they can get to you through all the Kids. Anyone else do anything like this. What do you do. Is there a good Kiosk system that you can put up to help people get info. I need a better plan that I don't have to baby sit 9 hours a day. I don't have the time to do this myself this year (have my own kids in 4-H with horses and other animals). Any Ideas. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Adam Kennedy Senior Network Administrator Cyberlink Technologies, Inc. Phone: 888-293-3693 x4352 Fax: 574-855-5761 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh
Hahaha Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: http://www.break.com/pictures/internet-building727205.html How about the link :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Alvarion VL Firmware
Anybody got a copy of the new VL firmware 5.5 from Alvarion, it's supposed to do wonders for the 900 band and has a filter built into it now. :) Thank You, Cameron Kilton WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Firmware
I'd be interested in that as well. On 5/21/09 5:13 PM, Cameron Kilton c...@midcoast.com wrote: Anybody got a copy of the new VL firmware 5.5 from Alvarion, it's supposed to do wonders for the 900 band and has a filter built into it now. :) Thank You, Cameron Kilton -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Adam Kennedy Senior Network Administrator Cyberlink Technologies, Inc. Phone: 888-293-3693 x4352 Fax: 574-855-5761 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
People read the comments, its scary, like this one... Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use each month. Does that seem logical or fair? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
People read the comments, its scary, like this one... Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use each month. Does that seem logical or fair? Technically...if you're the size of Comcast/ATT/Verizon...bandwidth is free because everything is on-net or done through peering arrangement But it still doesn't address the cost of transport (which is ultimately the dilemma we all face) Perhaps the better way to market is unlimited free all you can eat Internet Fine print: BYOT (Bring Your Own Transport) -- just figure out a way to get from Hole-in-the-ground-surrounded-by-trees, Kansas to Equinix Chicago and you can have all the Internet Bandwidth you'd ever need...oh? you need transport, well sir, that'll be $900 setup fee, $59.95 / month and $1 / GB =) -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh
Well at least I got one! * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Josh Luthman wrote: Hahaha Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: http://www.break.com/pictures/internet-building727205.html How about the link :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
Dont put words into their mouth. It didn't say regulate ISPs and broadband providers. It said regulate monopolies that are providing like utility services. When monopolies get rid of regulation, they should also get rid of their special priveledges, that utility status entitles them to. The important message is that regulation is not the answer. regulation is only necessary, when the governing bodies failed the public and allowed monopolyism to be the goal. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Kunze rku...@colusanet.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Oops, sorry for the blank reply, I hit the wrong keys. On 5/21/2009 8:00 AM, Matt wrote: Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. Personally, I can't EVEN imagine that such a law could stand up to basic reasoning. But think about it. If such a law was attempted, where would they draw the line? Telling any ISP that they can't use bandwidth management techniques is about like telling Comcast that they must lift bandwidth limits on cable service. Since cable has an ENORMOUS amount of potential bandwidth, the same problem occurs; a few abusive users suck the life out of the entire network because everyone gets a gig of bandwidth. I tell my customers that unlimited doesn't exist and never has. They try to argue that their other service was unlimited. When it is revealed that said other service had a fraction of the bandwidth that I'm now delivering to them, it becomes apparent that the previous service was in fact severely limited by its inherent slow speed. Dial-up was of course the first so called unlimited service, yet was in fact the most severely limited. The way I deal with it is to show them my service/consumption matrix. For example, if I deliver 4meg symmetrical and they sign up for residential service, they are expected to have roughly the same duty cycle as the rest of the residential group, within reason. If they sign up for residential and throttle it to 100% 24/7, that's not residential usage; at the end of the month they'll find that their speed has been reduced to about what they'd get from typical DSL which in turn keeps such a customer's monthly throughput within my guidelines for residential service. This way I keep abusers from abusing. And even in the very few cases I've seen it happen, the customer is more than happy to continue on like that. Conversely, if their usage falls back to the roughly 5% duty cycle normally seen on residential customers, they'll find that their speed went back to 4 meg. I give them one or the other, but not both. My explanation has always been well understood. Unlimited doesn't exist. Unless of course I'm talking to the 95% of people with common sense! cackle Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
I've never found a lender willing to lend against using the in-place used equipment as colladeral. It is the biggest double standard. I find it highly ironic that they'll use a car for colladeral that looses 50% of its value the day it leaves the lot, and has a rate of failure and risk of damage higher than just about any product on the market, and it has a huge cash burn (gas :-). but yet lendors won't put equivellent value on wireless gear, that holds its value, Ebay boasting easilly 50% after 3-4 years of use, even after fully depreciated. I'll never understand the lending market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Answers in-line. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money, that's what we've done. 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? I could not qualify for any of them. 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) Never sought any. 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit.In fact, the credit crunch start last Fall raised my 30+ day past due amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just four months. That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping by until our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still several thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at. 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow. We have plenty of people waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them. 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility contacted, we have not done any business with them. In my estimation, they wanted control over our business and day to day decisions, which we concluded was both unwarranted and unwise. Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? WISP equipment is not really a commodity in that there is almost no market for it outside of the maker-vendor relationship. Other than Ebay, and a couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no market which stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you can borrow against. Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get capital and create stable working and short term credit relationships with their buyers, kind of like the used car market. -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] NEED Router w/ T3 and Ethernet
Hi Adam, Left you a message. I can get something out to you tomorrow for Saturday delivery if needed. Jeff ImageStream 574-220-7826 cell 800-813-5123 x106 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chris T. Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] NEED Router w/ T3 and Ethernet Hi, so it seems we got in a jam and now we need a router with T3 (clear channel) and Ethernet. Anyone have one in stock to overnight? Adam Goodman 801.971.1856 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh
Me too! Try this one out: http://www.lmgtfy.com/ Put something in, hit enter and then click GO beneath the link that appears. Jeff -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - Linktechs Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh Well at least I got one! * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Josh Luthman wrote: Hahaha Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: http://www.break.com/pictures/internet-building727205.html How about the link :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Service Limits
Brad said... Again, in the end the property owner will prevail as they should. It is after all their property and they should have final say what happens to their property. If their decisions are poor and result in lost lease revenue than they'll be gone soon enough and maybe the new owner will see the benefit to allowing the right additional providers into the property. The market always works these issues out themselves. No it does not. It should work it self out, but it doesn't. Because people in control of multi-million if not billion dollar property understand prooperty not broadband, and they greedilly milk every dollar they can, because it is what their core business trains them to do. The property owners have little to loose to experiement with the broadband market and push the limits even if result to failure. Broadband is not relevent enough to their bottom line to matter. The truth is at the end of the day when a tenant has a choice to incur a $100,000 expense to move offices, or an exta $100 to change broadband providers to accommodate the landlord, the tenant always gives in. The prospective broadband providers are the ones that loose in the end. Industry Progress is delayed. The comment that after all its there property is not a fully accurate statement. The real owner is the state. They prove that everytime they send the property tax bill, and prove that they can seize your property within weeks, if you fail to pay that property tax bill. Ultimately, the state indirectly holds title to your land and used space within their state. It is the state that prevents the building of new towers, and states the acceptable use of areas within that state. Which includes access to reach the space above tenant buildings. A teannt building is consuming valuable space that is required to reach the area above buildings. When the building is there, a tower can't be built. Therefore it should be fully within the state's power to ask to easement on that structure that is preventing access to the air space. Just like a state can demand right of ways for their roads and utilities, those same provisions should be extended to gain access to teh space above buildings. The world is three dimenional, why should there only be provisions to reach areas horizontally. Verticle can't be left behind. or we waste space in a 3 deminsion world. Why is it OK to go verticle down into the earth, but not verticely up? I am fully for making ISPs responsible for real costs associated with wear and tear on space they gain easements for. But restricting access is wrong. What people forget is that when someone buys land they have not bought the right to a specific height into the sky. Do builders have the right to build a building that blocks my LOS or Blocks my beautiful view? The answer is no, building codes can restrict how high buildings are allowed to be built. And if someone builts one high blocking my vioew and blocking my airway LOS, it is there obligation to help me get around the evil obstruction that they put in front of me, by giving me access to their roof. to accomplish it.. Now, whether I ahve the right to come intop their house, to serve inside their building, well thats a different arguement. That is combated by saying tenants are entitled to basic utilities. And I think broadband should have equal rights to electric, water, and phone. What makes the electric any more important than broadband? A builder is REQUIRED to install electric in commercial buildings just like they are required to install sprinklers for fire safety. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Limits Your argument makes the assumption there are no other options for a tenant other than the property in question. This is really no different than restaurants that allow smoking vs. restaurants that don't allow smoking. If you want to smoke you will dine at restaurants that allow smoking and the ones that forbid smoking won't get your business. This works for the non-smokers too. Personally I'm a non-smoker and dine at either smoking or non-smoking restaurants, but we all know people that are adamant on both sides of the issue. Regarding your tenant lease renewal example, doubt the property owner will make publicly known (regardless as to the reason) why he chooses not to renew a tenant's lease. Is there a law I'm unaware of that forces a landlord to give reason for not renewing a lease? Eviction, sure, but not for renewals. Have you ever read a lease agreement closely? They are always heavily weighted towards the landlord vs. the tenant as they should be. Again, there is nothing forcing a tenant to lease there as they can always lease elsewhere. There are
Re: [WISPA] NEED Router w/ T3 and Ethernet
I was going to suggest IS for this but Jeff beat me to it. On 5/21/09, Jeff Broadwick jeffl...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Adam, Left you a message. I can get something out to you tomorrow for Saturday delivery if needed. Jeff ImageStream 574-220-7826 cell 800-813-5123 x106 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chris T. Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] NEED Router w/ T3 and Ethernet Hi, so it seems we got in a jam and now we need a router with T3 (clear channel) and Ethernet. Anyone have one in stock to overnight? Adam Goodman 801.971.1856 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
I don't want to seem like a chronic complainer as I usually do on the WISPA listbut this has been my SPEW all along for years! The FCC and Washington have NO Intelligible IDEA about Internet Technology and how it works! Out of most of our House and Senate reps, I bet 90% do not even know how to operate a PC...they hire underlings to do that and the underlings try to tell them what they need to know. One thing I agree with Obama on, is he is setting up a technology committee. I hope they know WTF they are talking about...maybe finally! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:20:10 -0400 People read the comments, its scary, like this one... Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use each month. Does that seem logical or fair? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Me either Tom. I got the same reply from my local bank on borrowing against my equipment. It was Can't do it! No resale value on tech equipment. Jeesh! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 19:27:09 -0400 I've never found a lender willing to lend against using the in-place used equipment as colladeral. It is the biggest double standard. I find it highly ironic that they'll use a car for colladeral that looses 50% of its value the day it leaves the lot, and has a rate of failure and risk of damage higher than just about any product on the market, and it has a huge cash burn (gas :-). but yet lendors won't put equivellent value on wireless gear, that holds its value, Ebay boasting easilly 50% after 3-4 years of use, even after fully depreciated. I'll never understand the lending market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Answers in-line. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money, that's what we've done. 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? I could not qualify for any of them. 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) Never sought any. 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit.In fact, the credit crunch start last Fall raised my 30+ day past due amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just four months. That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping by until our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still several thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at. 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow. We have plenty of people waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them. 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility contacted, we have not done any business with them. In my estimation, they wanted control over our business and day to day decisions, which we concluded was both unwarranted and unwise. Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? WISP equipment is not really a commodity in that there is almost no market for it outside of the maker-vendor relationship. Other than Ebay, and a couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no market which stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you can borrow against. Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get capital and create stable working and short term credit relationships with their buyers, kind of like the used car market. -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
I'm glad you said hope. We can all hope but dont hold your breath. I dont trust anything politicians do, especially these days. All they are after is votes and their agendas (order of which to be determined). The only change now is that they dont care what the average Joe thinks. I dont mean this to be negative, just realistic. My hope is that we get tired of bending over and kick them all out of DC. I'd like to see the states take back more power. My .02 -RickG On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com wrote: I don't want to seem like a chronic complainer as I usually do on the WISPA listbut this has been my SPEW all along for years! The FCC and Washington have NO Intelligible IDEA about Internet Technology and how it works! Out of most of our House and Senate reps, I bet 90% do not even know how to operate a PC...they hire underlings to do that and the underlings try to tell them what they need to know. One thing I agree with Obama on, is he is setting up a technology committee. I hope they know WTF they are talking about...maybe finally! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:20:10 -0400 People read the comments, its scary, like this one... Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use each month. Does that seem logical or fair? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Well, Agility will but what out for the terms! -RickG On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I've never found a lender willing to lend against using the in-place used equipment as colladeral. It is the biggest double standard. I find it highly ironic that they'll use a car for colladeral that looses 50% of its value the day it leaves the lot, and has a rate of failure and risk of damage higher than just about any product on the market, and it has a huge cash burn (gas :-). but yet lendors won't put equivellent value on wireless gear, that holds its value, Ebay boasting easilly 50% after 3-4 years of use, even after fully depreciated. I'll never understand the lending market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Answers in-line. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money, that's what we've done. 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? I could not qualify for any of them. 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) Never sought any. 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit. In fact, the credit crunch start last Fall raised my 30+ day past due amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just four months. That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping by until our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still several thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at. 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow. We have plenty of people waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them. 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility contacted, we have not done any business with them. In my estimation, they wanted control over our business and day to day decisions, which we concluded was both unwarranted and unwise. Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? WISP equipment is not really a commodity in that there is almost no market for it outside of the maker-vendor relationship. Other than Ebay, and a couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no market which stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you can borrow against. Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get capital and create stable working and short term credit relationships with their buyers, kind of like the used car market. -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Thanking Marlon and multipath experience
Glad to be of help Forbes! Once in a while I make a lucky guess. grin OK, design note time. I work to keep all of my links in the -65 to -75 range. If you look up the specs for your radios you will likely find that this is well above the lowest receive signal level, but not too far above it. Why is this important? As I've been taught over the years (Thanks Jaime, Bob and others) most knife edged refraction (a bounced signal off of an object) will be about 30 dB down below the original signal level. So if your radio has a max sensitivity of -94 and you have a -65 signal you'll be almost out of the possibility of the receive radio even picking up your refracted signal. Think of the refraction as a reflection or echo. An echo makes it really hard to understand someone. Multipath is the same thing. But if you can make the echo so quiet that you can't hear is it won't hurt anything, even if it's there. MOST of my towers put out LESS than 1 WATT! A few are still close to 4 watts, but changes in AP's allow me to run ever lower tx powers. Believe it or not I have customers getting over 2 megs of service from systems that are less than 2 watts and at ranges of 18 miles! Yes I can prove this if anyone wants to come visit If you are picking up your towers at levels above -60 to -65 you'll have a LOT more trouble on your network. Especially tower to tower. Turn the danged things down. If you need more power at a customer's place install a bigger antenna! Over the years I've run into many companies that try to use a bigger stick. They systems never work well for long. The more customers go on it the worse that problem gets too. I fact I have started pulling customers from a competitor in the area. He's running a system near me that looks to be running about 42 watts (remember we're only allowed 4). Why am I getting his customers? Because his system doesn't work right. Much of that is due to his design flaws. OK, next question is, how do I know what he's running? All you need to know is what gain the antenna is at your end, what the receive signal is and how far the transmitter is away from you. From there it's easy with a formula. At 42dB I have him at about a 15dB antenna and 1 or so watt TX power. A VERY common config sold by some distributors. It's too bad, these never work well long term and rotten wisp networks give us all a bad name. Anyway, Forbes, try turning that power down. WAY down. I'll bet you can go back to g mode and have even more stability than you have now. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: [WISPA] Thanking Marlon and multipath experience I admit that most of you can dance around me in the field of RF. I'm more of an installer and management type. Today I had a Nano CPE with a -48 dbi signal which, as you know, is amazing; it should be it was a block away from the tower. The problem is the customer had long outages and erratic service. Aiming away from the tower kept the great connection but still crappy pings. Marlon suggested Multipath as a possibility and advised to turn the radio to B only and reduce the power on the radio. I had heard of Multipath but never experienced it. We changed both settings and while the signal stayed at -48dbi the time-outs and erratic pings went away. 90% of our system is two or more miles from towers, so we never had this problem before. This particular town is the only place where the towers are on buildings all within ½ mile of nearly everyone It answered a lot of problems for others in town we have been battling supposed interference with and I just wanted to publically thank Marlon for exposing me to a side of RF I hadn't even thought of. This is what makes WISPA worth it to me. Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1956 - Release Date: 02/16/09 18:31:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
Matt I think that's a great idea. What a bone headed idea. What was that about politicians and common sense? lol Tom/Steve, any suggestions about how to smack this idea back into the hole it came from? thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; motor...@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
- Original Message - From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that have a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a very popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the past year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we do - that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about financing Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow organically generated from operations Much more so than we were able to in the past. 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA / RUS loans)? We almost always went bank loans instead of leasing. Leasing is a major PITA as far as I'm concerned. I've never had one, well maybe one, that ended the way it was supposed to and without a TON of work on my side. One of the most successful mechanisms I've used is customer loans. They give me the money I need to get to their area and I give them free internet till it's paid back plus 10% interest (not per year, just 10%). They get internet sooner, I get customers sooner. Win win. 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% financing deal) Nope. Never have done that. Not yet anyway. 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch (e.g., not deploying as aggressively) That's always been a problem for us. We started deeply in debt and our hardware sucks for collateral. The up side to that is that I've had to have VERY solid business cases in place to get loans. That's helped keep my from borrowing myself out of business. Something I've seen more than one company do. 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy No way. Out here things are booming! 6. Have you gone to Agility...cough Louie the loanshark =) Not yet. Been tempted though! Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? Many of the markets I have left to cover don't lend them selves to loans at all well. They are too small and the money can either go into equipment and other overhead or to loan payment. It'll be hard to do both and make any money. marlon -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh
OK THAT is funny! marlon - Original Message - From: Dennis Burgess - Linktechs dmburg...@linktechs.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Just for a laugh http://www.break.com/pictures/internet-building727205.html How about the link :) * --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org http://www.wispa.org/ Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member* *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Dennis Burgess - Linktechs wrote: WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps
For sure congress doesn't have much of a clue. But the FCC understands very well. Scottie Arnett wrote: I don't want to seem like a chronic complainer as I usually do on the WISPA listbut this has been my SPEW all along for years! The FCC and Washington have NO Intelligible IDEA about Internet Technology and how it works! Out of most of our House and Senate reps, I bet 90% do not even know how to operate a PC...they hire underlings to do that and the underlings try to tell them what they need to know. One thing I agree with Obama on, is he is setting up a technology committee. I hope they know WTF they are talking about...maybe finally! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:20:10 -0400 People read the comments, its scary, like this one... Internet providing is like having an infinite tank of free water. ISP's pay for the pipes to get it to your house. You pay them based on the size of the pipe. Now they want to charge you based on the amount of free water you use each month. Does that seem logical or fair? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Congressman Wants to Ban Download Caps Supposedly you cannot throttle p2p and now there trying to say you cannot impose download caps as well. http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/#previouspost Perhaps this should be amended to include utilities such as water, electric, gas, telephone and etc. Wispa really should officially comment on this bill. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
