date:20041114

 em: the 'font-size' of the relevant font

Not totally. An em is the width of (no shit!) an 'M' glyph. But the
rest is allright for me.

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Cheers,
Rob.
» http://www.zooibaai.nl/b/
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Re[2]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:02:43 AM, Rob wrote:

 em: the 'font-size' of the relevant font

 Not totally. An em is the width of (no shit!) an 'M' glyph. But the
 rest is allright for me.

Totally. The font size is set in em units. The unit is defined as
the width of an 'm' glyph.


-- 

 Iain

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Re: Re[2]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

I find the description of font-size a bit dodgy, so I wanted to make
clear that all units have a meaning.


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:14:21 +, Iain Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:02:43 AM, Rob wrote:
 
  em: the 'font-size' of the relevant font
 
  Not totally. An em is the width of (no shit!) an 'M' glyph. But the
  rest is allright for me.
 
 Totally. The font size is set in em units. The unit is defined as
 the width of an 'm' glyph.
 
 --
 
  Iain
 
 
 
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Rob.
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Re[3]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:14:21 AM, I wrote:

 Not totally. An em is the width of (no s--t!) an 'M' glyph. But the
 rest is allright for me.

 Totally. The font size is set in em units. The unit is defined as
 the width of an 'm' glyph.

Since quoting Bob's message, I've had two bounce messages from mail
systems that rejected the email because I'd quoted a four letter
word meaning faeces (shirt without an r). Oddly, both rejections
are from .au domains.

This is relevant in several respects:

Firstly, we have to realise that there are some brain-dead mail
filtering systems out there, and have to be careful about the words
we use or quote in emails.

Secondly, the people behind these filters need to know that they are
having their email censored for them.

Fourthly, we need to be wary of this stupidity spreading to
HTML filtering.

What happens when bottom is considered too rude by a growing wave
of prudery? margin-beneath, anyone?

And fifthly, be careful when inventing class names that they won't
be a rude word in any possible language in the world!

-- 

 Iain

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Re[4]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:22:18 AM, Rob wrote:

 I find the description of font-size a bit dodgy,

I agree. Defining a font size in terms of a unit that is based on a
font size seems pretty stupid to me too, but that's how it is. There
are lots of stupidities around.

Here in the UK, we use words like referrer colour centre and
so on. Seems that HTML is based on a foreign language.


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Re[4]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:40:17 AM, Iain wrote:

 Fourthly, 

There was a third, but I decided it was rubbish. Sorry, folks.


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Re: Re[4]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

  I find the description of font-size a bit dodgy,
 
 I agree. Defining a font size in terms of a unit that is based on a
 font size seems pretty stupid to me too, but that's how it is. There
 are lots of stupidities around.

Well, in the print business, it's much more strict, which I prefer.
There are so much more units that I do not know of, but I try to keep
it clear in HTML too. That's hard with such inconsistencies.

 Here in the UK, we use words like referrer colour centre and
 so on. Seems that HTML is based on a foreign language.

I prefer UK English. Everything web is just crappy English :/


But on topic, em is relative and is the width of an M. There you have
it, but just don't mix it all up. There's a lot of confusion around
fonts. (To illustrate, Word uses pts that are bigger than the ones in
InDesign.)
-- 
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Rob.
» http://www.zooibaai.nl/b/
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RE: Re[3]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

2004-11-14 Thread Peter Firminger

 This is relevant in several respects:

 Firstly, we have to realise that there are some brain-dead mail
 filtering systems out there, and have to be careful about the words
 we use or quote in emails.

I don't agree, I can be blue to people I know in person but profanity
(including that mild but inelegant word) is simply not appropriate for this
list. We have people of all ages and many cultures/religions including some
clergy that won't appreciate the 'potty-type'.

Don't do it and it won't be a problem. Common sense and courtesy rules and
that means respect everyone.

 Secondly, the people behind these filters need to know that they are
 having their email censored for them.

They probably do.

 Fourthly, we need to be wary of this stupidity spreading to
 HTML filtering.

Maybe.

 What happens when bottom is considered too rude by a growing wave
 of prudery? margin-beneath, anyone?

Now you're stretching :)

 And fifthly, be careful when inventing class names that they won't
 be a rude word in any possible language in the world!

Why would you use anything like that? Why take the chance of embarrassing
anyone?

  Iain

End of discussion.

Thanks,

Peter


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Re: Underscores and multiple class names (WAS: Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue)

2004-11-14 Thread Chris Blown

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Did some really small superficial test to see which older browsers 
support underscores in class names:
- IE 4 no
- IE 5, 5.5 yes
- Netscape 4.77 yes  (surprisingly)
- Netscape 6 no
- Netscape 7 yes

(obviously this list is far from complete) 

While I was at it, also tested support for multiple class names (e.g.
class=warning notice referring to .warning and .notice simultaneously):
- IE 4 no
- IE 5, 5.5 yes
- Netscape 4.77 no
- Netscape 6, 7 yes
Now I remember why I joined the WSG list again... Thanks Patrick
Underscores are not part of our CSS naming conventions, though a lot of 
them still slip through the net.. ;)

Multiple class names, a trap for younger players class=arial bold 
red big

Don't laugh... I've seen it done .. and it was thought cool at the time, 
until they were told otherwise..or cracked over the head, I can't 
recall.. ;)

and look to make it blue all you do is change the class name to from 
red to blue, pretty cool eh?

*shivers*
Regards
Chris Blown
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Re[5]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 12:11:52 PM, Peter wrote:

 And fifthly, be careful when inventing class names that they won't
 be a rude word in any possible language in the world!

 Why would you use anything like that? Why take the chance of embarrassing
 anyone?

Now you are being silly.

It's possible to check that a word is not rude in languages you do
know (but even then not certain, unless you use a lot of rude words
yourself) but it most certainly is not possible to do so for every
language in the world.

Didn't Sean Connery have to use a different alias in Europe because
connery means something rude in one or more european languages?

  Iain

 End of discussion.

Really? Seems not. Or is this some sort of attempt at censorship by
an arrogant list admin, who doesn't want ridiculous assertions
questioned?




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Re: [WSG] Site check please - launched it finally!

2004-11-14 Thread Felix Miata

Michael Kear wrote:
 
 How does one get IE 7.1?
 
 Oh DER!!!  I'm using IE6.0.2900 - the one that came with WinXP Pro SP2.
 It's NETSCAPE that's up to 7.1.  Whoops.

Netscape's been up to 7.2 since August. 7.1 has security bugs.
-- 
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prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** Rotary ONLY since 1973

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Re: [WSG] Sticky Drop Downs

2004-11-14 Thread Christian Sonne

On Sun, Nov 14, 2004 at 07:24:05PM +1100, Neerav wrote:
 Paul
 
 What you need is http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/

just a heads-up; this menu doesn't work in (some versions?) of
konqueror, and as far as I can tell, shouldn't work at all according to
the standards - I managed to fix it in konqueror, and as far as I've
been able to test, I didn't break it anywhere else...

http://geeksbynature.dk/~cers/css/suckerfish/

there are however still issues with a couple other bugs, most (including
mine) are documented along with fixes here:
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/50.php#comments

someone really ought to implement all the changes mentioned there, and
see what happens... :)

 
 Neerav Bhatt
 http://www.bhatt.id.au
 Web Development  IT consultancy
 
 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
 http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/
 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
 
 Paul Farrell wrote:
 Hello,
 
 I was wondering if someone could inform me or point me to a resource on how
 to make a navigation dropdown/popout menu 'sticky' as a user progress
 deeper. (Parent menu items stay in hover state).
 
 The particular menu that I am working on is here:
 http://www.paulfarrell.com.au/dev/index.php
 
 Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
 Regards
 Paul Farrell
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Re: Re[4]: [WSG] Question to the others ...

2004-11-14 Thread Marilyn Langfeld

Hi folks,

My first post, since I've worked in print longer than web. In print, an em (and en) are mostly used to describe dashes (of the width of M and N) in a font. So they are appropriate to the task when used for that. They have been slightly redefined for the web (since an en is not always half an en):

An em is a unit of measurement defined as the point size of the font12 point type uses a 12 point em. An en is one-half of an em.  http://www.alistapart.com/articles/emen/

Best regards,

Marilyn Langfeld
http://www.langfeldesigns.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Nov 14, 2004, at 6:48 AM, Iain Harrison wrote:

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 11:22:18 AM, Rob wrote:

I find the description of font-size a bit dodgy,

I agree. Defining a font size in terms of a unit that is based on a
font size seems pretty stupid to me too, but that's how it is. There
are lots of stupidities around.

Here in the UK, we use words like referrer colour centre and
so on. Seems that HTML is based on a foreign language.


-- 

Iain

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[WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread Mary Krieger

Greetings,
As Marilyn notes, CSS has inherited a technical vocabulary from another 
technology - typography. In that world...

- The point (pt) size tells the printer how big is the distance from the 
top of the ascender to the bottom of the descender for that font.
- An em is equal to the height of the font being used ( or in other words 
the point size). It is used to set the widths and height of other elements 
on the page that relate to the font placement. (indent at the beginning of 
paragraphs, etc.)
- The X-height is the height of a letter excluding the ascenders and 
descenders.

Different type faces have different ratios between the height of the 
letters and the width of the letters. The ratio between the pt and x-height 
illuminates that relationship. Em dashes and en dashes are the appropriate 
lengths dependant on the pt size of the font.

Note that both the pt and x-height are descriptors of a particular font but 
the em is a relative unit used to design the page based on what font is 
selected. X-height was little used by printers and typesetters. It was more 
important to the designer of the typeface and to the person who selected 
which typeface was to be used for a particular job.

In CSS, the terms are defined as
- ems is the height of the element's font
- x-height is the height of the letter 'x'
In CSS both ems and ex are relative units based on what font is being used.
In a way, font size:10pt; is not selecting at what size you wish to see the 
letters but a way of selecting a particular font.

It could be that in the future, we will have a wider variety of typefaces 
available to use on the web, some of which will have differing body and 
ascender ratios. Web designers may then find the ability to use ex as well 
as em more useful than we do now.

Mary Krieger
Winnipeg MB Canada
http://www.mts.net/~mkrieger/ 

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RE: [WSG] Another body tag question ... [Use of dir]

2004-11-14 Thread Richard Ishida

FWIW, I consider this likely to be an incorrect usage of dir.  The default
is ltr, so it is hard to imagine a need for it on the body tag, though it's
not incorrect to specify.  However, direction should normally be specified
for the html tag rather than body (it's inherited). And if it is expressed,
it should use the bidi attributes provided for documents served as
HTML/XHTML, rather than CSS, to indicate default directionality and
directional changes.

ie. if you are going to specify ltr directionality, better use:

html dir=ltr


For more info:
Authoring Techniques for XHTML  HTML Internationalization: see techniques
starting with
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/outline/html-authoring-outline
.html#ri20030728.094313871 (click on the directives to get more detailed
info)(note: still in draft form)

FAQ: CSS vs. markup for bidi support
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup

RI



Richard Ishida
W3C

contact info:
http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ 

W3C Internationalization:
http://www.w3.org/International/ 

Publication blog:
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
 
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neerav
 Sent: 14 November 2004 05:22
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Another body tag question ...
 
 direction:ltr = direction of text is left - right as opposed 
 to some langauges which are right to left
 
 http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_text_direction.asp
 http://www.topxml.com/css/css_property_direction.asp
 
 Neerav Bhatt
 http://www.bhatt.id.au
 Web Development  IT consultancy
 
 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts 
 http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/ 
 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
 
 Michael Kear wrote:
  Another body style question following from Felix's rant ...
  
  I looked at what Yahoo do in their style,  
 (http://www.yahoo.com) and 
  they have the following as their body style:
  
  body{font:84%/1.2em arial,sans-serif;direction:ltr}
  
  What's the point of setting the body font at 84% of 1.2em?  
 (which is 
  what I assume is what's happening).  That's 100.8% if my 
 arithmetic is 
  correct, so is there any point to this instead of setting 
 it to 100%/1.0em?
  
  What does the 'direction:ltr' part do?
  
  Cheers
  Mike Kear
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Re: [WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread Mordechai Peller

Mary Krieger wrote:
- The point (pt) size tells the printer how big is the distance from 
the top of the ascender to the bottom of the descender for that font.
- An em is equal to the height of the font being used ( or in other 
words the point size). It is used to set the widths and height of 
other elements on the page that relate to the font placement. (indent 
at the beginning of paragraphs, etc.)
- The X-height is the height of a letter excluding the ascenders and 
descenders. 
Nice post, but some points need clarification:
While pt's are fine for the print media type, when using the screen (by 
far the most commonly used media with CSS) pixels (px) essentially 
replace points.

Also, while you description of ex height is correct, most (afaik, all) 
implementations of CSS use 1/2 of the em height instead.
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Re[2]: [WSG] pt, em and ex

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 6:01:52 PM, Mordechai wrote:

 While pt's are fine for the print media type, when using the screen (by
 far the most commonly used media with CSS) pixels (px) essentially
 replace points.

When you use points, the system has a chance to compensate for the
screen resolution in use (though most don't, I accept). When you use
pixels, high-res screens give tiny results.

It's best to have the base set in ems (for IE compatibility reasons)
and use relative sizes thereafter. Failing that, set the base in
points, but not pixels.


-- 

 Iain

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[WSG] What you think? And will it work

2004-11-14 Thread Mark Harwood

http://xhtmlandcss.co.uk/index.php?p=4

Well all weekend ive finally been getting this site sorted after about
3months of saying I would.

Basically im going to offer templates, menus and such that I either didn't
use for clients work or test ones.

Id also like some advice on the copyright side of things? Should I use one
of them creative commerce thingies?

Ps. Sites not live yet hence lack of content :)

Many thanks
Mark Harwood

Phunky.co.uk / xhtmlandcss.co.uk / zinkmedia.co.uk / Currently looking for
work

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Re: [WSG] What you think? And will it work

Creative _Commons_ is the best you can do. Another thing you might
want to add is a link or even generator meta to WordPress. It's
published under the same CC you're referring to.

On the concept: well, someone had to do it.


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:13 -, Mark Harwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://xhtmlandcss.co.uk/index.php?p=4
 
 Well all weekend ive finally been getting this site sorted after about
 3months of saying I would.
 
 Basically im going to offer templates, menus and such that I either didn't
 use for clients work or test ones.
 
 Id also like some advice on the copyright side of things? Should I use one
 of them creative commerce thingies?
 
 Ps. Sites not live yet hence lack of content :)
 
 Many thanks
 Mark Harwood
 
 Phunky.co.uk / xhtmlandcss.co.uk / zinkmedia.co.uk / Currently looking for
 work
 
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Cheers,
Rob.
» http://www.zooibaai.nl/b/
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Re: [WSG] pt, em and ex

Iain Harrison wrote:
It's best to have the base set in ems (for IE compatibility reasons)
and use relative sizes thereafter.
In my experience IE doesn't resize ems consistently. I've come to use % 
for the base (on the html), then em (on the body)

Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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RE: [WSG] What you think? And will it work

2004-11-14 Thread Mark Harwood

Yeah, I shall be placing a powered by wordpress bit, just not got round to
that bit yet :)

And as for your Someone had to do it your damn right :)

I shall be opening up the site to other to submit stuff too maybe not public
but if people wanted to join up drop me a mail

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rob Mientjes
Sent: 14 November 2004 19:53
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] What you think? And will it work

Creative _Commons_ is the best you can do. Another thing you might
want to add is a link or even generator meta to WordPress. It's
published under the same CC you're referring to.

On the concept: well, someone had to do it.


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:44:13 -, Mark Harwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://xhtmlandcss.co.uk/index.php?p=4
 
 Well all weekend ive finally been getting this site sorted after about
 3months of saying I would.
 
 Basically im going to offer templates, menus and such that I either didn't
 use for clients work or test ones.
 
 Id also like some advice on the copyright side of things? Should I use one
 of them creative commerce thingies?
 
 Ps. Sites not live yet hence lack of content :)
 
 Many thanks
 Mark Harwood


 Phunky.co.uk / xhtmlandcss.co.uk / zinkmedia.co.uk / Currently looking for
 work
 
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-- 
Cheers,
Rob.
 http://www.zooibaai.nl/b/
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Re[2]: [WSG] pt, em and ex

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 8:02:50 PM, Patrick wrote:

 In my experience IE doesn't resize ems consistently. I've come to use %
 for the base (on the html), then em (on the body)

Eh? That makes no sense to me. Body is a child of html.


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Re: [WSG] pt, em and ex

Iain Harrison wrote:
Sunday, November 14, 2004, 8:02:50 PM, Patrick wrote:

In my experience IE doesn't resize ems consistently. I've come to use %
for the base (on the html), then em (on the body)

Eh? That makes no sense to me. Body is a child of html.
I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is: I use
html { font-size: 100%; }
to get IE to play nice again when resizing (using View - Text-size), as 
it has a major flaw if you just use straight ems (the jumps between 
sizes are far too great).

after that, I have
body { font-size: 0.8em; }
or whatever.
Also note that, in practice, it seems that ems and percentages are 
interchangeable (if we leave aside the IE em resizing bug), so I could 
also say

body { font-size: 80%; }
Patrick H. Lauke
--
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re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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Re[2]: [WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 8:28:45 PM, Patrick wrote:

 it seems that ems and percentages are 
 interchangeable

Indeed. Unless you define a unit, I think the base unit is 1em.


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Re: [WSG] International Pages Check

2004-11-14 Thread Jason Foss

Thanks for the link Paul - that's a good one.

Rick: Thanks for checking it out. I thought about the caption idea,
and at first thought yeah, that makes sense, but then I figured that
if you don't recognise the flag, there's a fair chance you won't speak
the language anyway! Or am I just being belligerent? If I'm going to
add captions they should be in the foreign language?

Cheers
Jason.

PS is the server still slow? Temporary issue I hope...


On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:27:24 -0700, Paul Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There is no language identified in the DOCTYPE and the html tag (I
 only checked the Spanish and Mandarin pages).
 
 |This link may be helpful:|
 |http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_7_identifying_your_language.html|
 ||
 |Paul|
 ||
 ||
 ||
 
 
 Jason Foss wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  This site is still well and truly in draft stage (I know - the menu is
  still up the spout!) but looking for feedback specifically on the
  internationalisation of the following pages:
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-german.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-swedish.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-spanish.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-mandarin.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-cantonese.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-japanese.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-korean.php
  http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-thai.php
 
  First time I've had a crack at foreign character sets - any feedback
  on this aspect of the site would be much appreciated!
 
  Cheers
  Jason
 
 
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-- 
Jason Foss
Almost Anything Desktop Publishing
www.almost-anything.com.au
Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia
We can do almost anything!
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[WSG] Safari form problem

2004-11-14 Thread Mike Brown

Hi 

Safari (1.2.4) has a problem with the layout of this form:
http://dev5.signify.co.nz/templates/form.html
All other tested browsers render it fine. Safari seemingly isn't clearing the 
textarea in the first fieldset, and is adding a huge amount of whitespace at 
the top of the second fieldset.
Any ideas why?
The css used is here:
http://dev5.signify.co.nz/templates/css/appform.css
Thanks.
Mike Brown

SIGNIFY LTD :: the logic behind


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[WSG] Height in IE6

I have redesigned a header for a web page. Firefox 1.0 displays the HTML and 
CSS just what I am trying to achieve. However, IE6 ignores the height in 
#logowrapper {. Why? And how do I fix it? Thank you.

Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org


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RE: [WSG] International Pages Check

2004-11-14 Thread Richard Ishida

Hello Jason, Paul,

Apart from the fact that a user would not always like to see their language
associated with the flag of another country, there are other reasons for not
using flags.  If you want to specify Swiss German, vs Swiss French vs. Swiss
Italian sites, you need a second level of choice than that offered by the
national flag.  Best use the name of the language in the language and script
of the country.  (For help with this see
http://people.w3.org/rishida/names/languages.html )

Note also that the language expressed in the DOCTYPE should not be changed -
the DTD is in English.  It's the html language attribute that you should
change. (I had to explain this to someone recently, so thought I'd mention
it.)

At the W3C we have been working on the ins and outs of language declarations
over the past months (from a content author's perspective).  It wasn't as
straightforward as we thought!  Please take a look at  Authoring Techniques
for XHTML  HTML Internationalization: Specifying the language of content
1.0 [1] for the latest in-edit version of our recommendations.  (There's
also an attempt to make it easier to get advice on this via a summary page
at [2]).

For an example of how we do this (on pages that are actually
content-language negotiated too), see [3].

Hope that helps,
RI


[1] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html
[2]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/outline/html-authoring-outline
.html
[3] http://www.w3.org/International/O-charset



Richard Ishida
W3C

contact info:
http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ 

W3C Internationalization:
http://www.w3.org/International/ 

Publication blog:
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
 
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Foss
 Sent: 14 November 2004 20:56
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [WSG] International Pages Check
 
 Thanks for the link Paul - that's a good one.
 
 Rick: Thanks for checking it out. I thought about the caption 
 idea, and at first thought yeah, that makes sense, but then 
 I figured that if you don't recognise the flag, there's a 
 fair chance you won't speak the language anyway! Or am I just 
 being belligerent? If I'm going to add captions they should 
 be in the foreign language?
 
 Cheers
 Jason.
 
 PS is the server still slow? Temporary issue I hope...
 
 
 On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:27:24 -0700, Paul Jones 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  There is no language identified in the DOCTYPE and the 
 html tag (I 
  only checked the Spanish and Mandarin pages).
  
  |This link may be helpful:|
  
 |http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_7_identifying_your_language.html
  ||
  ||
  |Paul|
  ||
  ||
  ||
  
  
  Jason Foss wrote:
  
   Hi all,
  
   This site is still well and truly in draft stage (I know 
 - the menu 
   is still up the spout!) but looking for feedback 
 specifically on the 
   internationalisation of the following pages:
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-german.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-swedish.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-spanish.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-mandarin.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-cantonese.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-japanese.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-korean.php
   http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-thai.php
  
   First time I've had a crack at foreign character sets - 
 any feedback 
   on this aspect of the site would be much appreciated!
  
   Cheers
   Jason
  
  
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 --
 Jason Foss
 Almost Anything Desktop Publishing
 www.almost-anything.com.au
 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North 
 Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia We can do almost anything!
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[WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store

 have redesigned a header for a web page. Firefox 1.0 displays the HTML and 
CSS just what I am trying to achieve. However, IE6 ignores the height in
 #logowrapper {. Why? And how do I fix it? Thank you.

HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/HNew/CRFHeader.htm

CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css

Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org


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Re[2]: [WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread Mary Krieger

Barring browser weirdness for a brief utopian moment, is this the way it is 
supposed to work.?

In order for any text to appear, someone somewhere has to have chosen a 
font face and size. So choosing to use relative rather than absolute units 
for font size moves where the decision occurs.

If the stylesheet belonging to the page uses an absolute unit like pt to 
set the size of the base font, the browser will attempt to use the page's 
stylesheet to set the default font size.

If the stylesheet belonging to the page instead uses the relative unit % or 
ems to set the size of the base font, then the browser will set the default 
font size relative to the local machine's default stylesheet's font size. 
Here 1 em behaves the same way as 100%.

If the stylesheet belonging to the page instead uses the relative unit px 
to set the size of the base font, then the browser will set the default 
font size relative to the local machine's resolution.

If the remainder of the font-sizes in the stylesheet are set with relative 
units, the page should retain the size relationships of the page's 
stylesheet no matter where the decision about default font size occurs.

Mary Krieger
Winnipeg MB Canada
http://www.mts.net/~mkrieger/
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Re[3]: [WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store

Sunday, November 14, 2004, 9:52:20 PM, Mary wrote:

 is this the way it is 
 supposed to work.?

That's my understanding of it, I think.


-- 

 Iain

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Re: [WSG] Site check please - launched it finally!

2004-11-14 Thread Hugh Todd

Michael,
Whoops, that was a typo. I should, of course, have written 76% or 
0.76em.

I read somewhere (I'm sure someone on the list will remember where) 
that 76% works for all modern browsers better than 75%, because of a 
rendering difference in one of the browsers.

-Hugh
 5) I'd suggest setting your body font size to 76% or 0.7em. It 
looks
just a little better at that size.
It already is .7em, which is only half default size (49% of the total
pixels per character box of the default size).
Thanks for your thoughts Felix.   The size is already at 0.7em because 
I
adopted the excellent suggestion of Hugh Todd and changed it. 
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[WSG] Validate Inside Your Firewall

2004-11-14 Thread John Horner

There was a mention in Scott Parsons' very useful talk (Thursday's 
Sydney meeting) of the difficulty of validating pages when they were 
inside a firewall.

I just thought I'd post that it's not impossible, and give you some 
links to help you install your own validator. I'm not a 
perl/Linux/Apache guru by any means, quite the opposite -- this 
advice is offered in the spirit of if I can do it, how hard can it 
be?

Here's the W3Cs page where the validator is offered for download:
 http://validator.w3.org/source/
and here are specific instructions for installing it on Mac OSX from Apple
 http://developer.apple.com/internet/opensource/validator.html
and some less formal advice from Mediaville
 http://www.mediaville.net/articles/validator/
Here's the relevant link for the installation of the WDG validator 
(validates whole sites):

 http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/source.html
We had quite an easy run installing the WDG one, simply because we 
happened to have a server on our network already which was running 
RedHat 7.x, and I persuaded the Systems guy running it to let me 
install the validator from one of the packages:

 http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/packages/
So, if you've already got such a thing as a server with a compatible 
version of Linux, it could be relatively straightforward. If you can 
spare a Mac OSX machine, either as a whole or don't mind having it 
run a web server as well as do other work, ditto.

If you haven't got a spare machine, remember that RedHat Linux will 
run on quite old clunky PCs, and every office has got one of those 
lying about, surely? All you need now is a spare network connection. 
I would even venture that this is the kind of project that a 
work-experience person could do, given the right work-experience 
person!

Hope that encourages you to try for internal standards-based validation,
jh



   Have You Validated Your Code?
John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 2110
Senior Developer, ABC Online  http://www.abc.net.au/

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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread Damian Sweeney

 have redesigned a header for a web page. Firefox 1.0 displays the HTML and
CSS just what I am trying to achieve. However, IE6 ignores the height in
 #logowrapper {. Why? And how do I fix it? Thank you.
HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/HNew/CRFHeader.htm
I get a 404 error on this URL and can't guess the right page.
Again?
Damian

CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css
Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org
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Re: [WSG] Safari form problem

2004-11-14 Thread Terrence Wood

you're floating the textarea:
remove this declaration from the CSS:
 form#application div.row textarea
cheers Terry
On 2004-11-15 10:05 AM, Mike Brown wrote:
Hi
Safari (1.2.4) has a problem with the layout of this form:
http://dev5.signify.co.nz/templates/form.html
All other tested browsers render it fine. Safari seemingly isn't 
clearing the textarea in the first fieldset, and is adding a huge amount 
of whitespace at the top of the second fieldset.

Any ideas why?
The css used is here:
http://dev5.signify.co.nz/templates/css/appform.css
Thanks.
Mike Brown

SIGNIFY LTD :: the logic behind


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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

Damian

HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/HNew/CRFHeader.htm

 I get a 404 error on this URL and can't guess the right page.

Sorry. I should check my typing.

HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm

CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm

Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org


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Re: [WSG] Site check please - launched it finally!

2004-11-14 Thread Mkear

Hugh, thanks for your suggestions. I'm sorry that in the rush yesterday I
didn't thank you for your input. I've implemented all of your
suggestions and I have a better site now as a result. Thanks I
notice that on one page now that the fonts are smaller, the flow of
text has resulted in some orphan text alongside an image, so I'll have to
change the standard image width a bit i think. But
broadly speaking, the site is something I am quite pleased with.I
should also say that the radio community is far more impressed than this
group. I have had a number of gushing testimonials from webmasters at
other stations.For the record, I've racked up 67 hours on this
project so far, and maybe another 60 or so to go before I'll call it
complete and in the maintenance only phase. In addition to the CSS,
i've written all my own code. It's fully dynamic, with access
going to be given to about 60 people to different parts of the site for
different roles. Each can work on their own parts of the site without
it appearing in public until it's ready and approved by someone with the
right authority level. In addition we're going to be taking 2 web
services feeds, and providing half a dozen to other sites.I'm really
thrilled with how fast it loads even though it's hosted on a shared
environment in the midwest of the USA.Anyway, thanks for everyone's
help with this site (it's http://hawkradio.org.au if you're coming
in late to the discussion) and I'm still interested in anyone's input about
any aspect of the site, as long as it's polite.CheersMike
KearAFP WebworksWindsor, NSW, Australia

- Original Message From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Site check please -
launched it finally!Date: 15/11/04 10:06Michael,Whoops, that was a typo. I should, of course,
have written "76% or0.76em".I read somewhere (I'm sure someone
on the list will remember where)that 76% works for all modern browsers
better than 75%, because of arendering difference in one of the
browsers.-Hugh 5) I'd suggest
setting your "body" font size to 76% or 0.7em. It looks
just a little better at that size. It already is .7em, which
is only half default size (49% of the total pixels per character box
of the default size). Thanks for
your thoughts Felix. The size is already at 0.7em because I
adopted the excellent suggestion of Hugh Todd and changed
it.**The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor
some hints on posting to the list getting
help**

Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2

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Re: [WSG] Question to the others ...

2004-11-14 Thread Jeroen Visser [ vizi ]

Marilyn Langfeld wrote:
Hi folks,
My first post, since I've worked in print longer than web. In print, an 
em (and en) are mostly used to describe dashes (of the width of M and N) 
in a font. So they are appropriate to the task when used for that. They 
have been slightly redefined for the web (since an en is not always half 
an em).
Hi Marilyn,
To add to your posting: and the capital M or roman m are nowadays not 
really an em or en wide.

An em is a unit of measurement defined as the point size of the 
font12 point type uses a 12 point em. An en is one-half of an em. 
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/emen/
An excellent explanation of the em and en units:
http://css.nu/articles/typograph1-en.html#Ch23
As always, someone has dug up al the idiosyncrasies that made id from 
the physical world to the digital space. :-)

Jeroen
--
vizi fotografie  grafisch ontwerp - http://www.vizi.nl/
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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread Damian Sweeney

Damian
HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/HNew/CRFHeader.htm
 I get a 404 error on this URL and can't guess the right page.
Sorry. I should check my typing.
HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm
CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm
IE is not your only issue. Safari has only a thin line (apparently 
ignoring the min-height setting) above the h1 making it unreadable.

Damian
Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org
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[WSG] Faux columns not staying horizontal

2004-11-14 Thread Martin Vollrathson

Hello WSG.
My website at http://mavos.net/ is messing with my head. Actually it's 
Internet Explorer that's messing with my head. The two columns marked 
with red and yellow for debugging purposes don't stay next to each other 
in Internet Explorer, but the right column falls down below the content.

Any ideas why this is happening? It's driving me crazy.
The fact that I don't have access to Internet Explorer doesn't make 
debugging a whole lot easier.

Maybe there's a better solution to this layout than using two 
left-floated divs?

Everything works fine in Mozilla Firefox, of course.
/Martin Vollrathson
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Re: [WSG] pt, em and ex

2004-11-14 Thread Jeroen Visser [ vizi ]

Mary Krieger wrote:
Barring browser weirdness for a brief utopian moment, is this the way it is 
supposed to work.?

In order for any text to appear, someone somewhere has to have chosen a 
font face and size. So choosing to use relative rather than absolute units 
for font size moves where the decision occurs.
Precisely. This also is the reason why 'px' is the worst unit to define 
font size in, as Internet Explorer still cannot increase or decrease the 
size of fonts set in pixels. Common accessibility and usability practice 
is to allow visitors the freedom to adapt font sizing to their personal 
preferences.

If the stylesheet belonging to the page uses an absolute unit like pt to 
set the size of the base font, the browser will attempt to use the page's 
stylesheet to set the default font size.
The specified author stylesheet will almost always be used; only an 
!important in a user or browser stylesheet will override this. See:

http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/topics/cascade.htm
If the stylesheet belonging to the page instead uses the relative unit % or 
ems to set the size of the base font, then the browser will set the default 
font size relative to the local machine's default stylesheet's font size. 
Here 1 em behaves the same way as 100%.
What happens is that instead of forcing an absolute reference font size 
(in px or pt), you take the user's font size as the basic type size..

If the stylesheet belonging to the page instead uses the relative unit px 
to set the size of the base font, then the browser will set the default 
font size relative to the local machine's resolution.
Pixels are not a relative unit; they're as absolute for screen rendering 
as point sizes are for the printing press.

If the remainder of the font-sizes in the stylesheet are set with relative 
units, the page should retain the size relationships of the page's 
stylesheet no matter where the decision about default font size occurs.
Unless the user declares he wants to see h1 elements at 400% of the base 
font size. ;-)

Jeroen
--
vizi fotografie  grafisch ontwerp - http://www.vizi.nl/
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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store

Damian

I took out the min-height: out. Does that make any change?

HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm

CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css

Angus MacKinnon
MacKinnon Crest Saying
Latin -  Audentes Fortuna Juvat
English - Fortune Assists The Daring
Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm
Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc.
http://www.choroideremia.org


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Re: [WSG] Site Critique

2004-11-14 Thread Jeroen Visser [ vizi ]

Laurie Keith wrote:
Hi,
If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest
evaluation on our new corporate web site.
http://www.createwith.com
Hi Laurie,
Others have cracked down on the Flash thing, so I'll focus on some other 
issues. Basically, it's a clean, neat site, but it has some problems:

- The site doesn't show the usual 'hand' cursor when hovering a link. 
While this may look cool at first, it is a serious usability problem. 
The hand cursor is the single most effective way to say: 'this is a link'.

- The scrollbar on the Press page is a bit 'under designed'. :-) If you 
choose to use Flash, make the scrollbars blend in with the overall 
design; a standard Windows bar just is out of place, so it seems.

- Why the arrow in the top right? Why not maximize the width of the 
Flashmovie in the first place? Bonus: it looks better, too.

- The small type in the portfolio sections (the text under the images) 
is pretty hard to read; I'd suggest to (a) increase the font size, or to 
(b) take a lighter weight _and_ to make the type pitch black, or to (c) 
disable anti-aliassing for that type.

- The placement of the submenu is not really logical. I understand the 
design choice to place the menus on top of each other, but I'm a graphic 
designer, so that doesn't really count. ;-) My guess would be that the 
feedback (I click on Work and there's a submenu for this 'Work' section) 
would be much stronger if the menus would be next to eachother, or if a 
line or other visual clue would connect the highlighted menu-item with 
its submenu in the bottom half.

The portfolio is pretty neat, so it's a pity the rest of the puzzle 
doesn't really fall in place to convince people to stay and click around 
(and that's what this site needs, right?).

Jeroen
--
vizi fotografie  grafisch ontwerp - http://www.vizi.nl/
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[WSG] The Lindsay Method, version 2

2004-11-14 Thread Lindsay Evans

In order to stop Russ from hassling me about it every time I see him,
I've thrown together a small demo/explanation of the latest  greatest
image replacement method (well, 'fancy heading method', really):
http://lindsayevans.com/experiments/lindsaymethod_2/

I'm sure I'm not the first to use it, but I can't find much mention of
it anywhere else, so I might as well get my name on it before Doug
Bowman or someone does :p

Feel free to point out all the flaws, spelling mistakes, ethically
questionable uses of CSS, etc.

Oh, and I launched my new design over the weekend:
http://lindsayevans.com/

Yes, I am well aware of all of the validation errors, each weighs
heavily upon my soul, but I wanted to get it live before I got bored
with it  started redesigning yet again.

-- 
Lindsay Evans
http://lindsayevans.com/
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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread Damian Sweeney

Damian
I took out the min-height: out. Does that make any change?
HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm
CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css
This now looks broken in Firefox (image smaller and too high) and the 
image doesn't display at all in Safari.  You've also now got height: 
4empx in the logowrapper definition.

Damian
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[WSG] Site Check

2004-11-14 Thread Chris Kennon

Hi All,
Just launched a mini-site while the core is under redesign @ 
ckimedia.com, all insight is most welcome.

C

Knowing is not enough, you must apply;
willing is not enough, you must do.
---Bruce Lee
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Re: [WSG] International Pages Check

2004-11-14 Thread Jason Foss

Thanks Richard - we did have that trouble with Simplified Chinese and
Traditional Chinese. Same flag - didn't really know how to
differentiate them.

Cheers!


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:22:18 -, Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Jason, Paul,
 
 Apart from the fact that a user would not always like to see their language
 associated with the flag of another country, there are other reasons for not
 using flags.  If you want to specify Swiss German, vs Swiss French vs. Swiss
 Italian sites, you need a second level of choice than that offered by the
 national flag.  Best use the name of the language in the language and script
 of the country.  (For help with this see
 http://people.w3.org/rishida/names/languages.html )
 
 Note also that the language expressed in the DOCTYPE should not be changed -
 the DTD is in English.  It's the html language attribute that you should
 change. (I had to explain this to someone recently, so thought I'd mention
 it.)
 
 At the W3C we have been working on the ins and outs of language declarations
 over the past months (from a content author's perspective).  It wasn't as
 straightforward as we thought!  Please take a look at  Authoring Techniques
 for XHTML  HTML Internationalization: Specifying the language of content
 1.0 [1] for the latest in-edit version of our recommendations.  (There's
 also an attempt to make it easier to get advice on this via a summary page
 at [2]).
 
 For an example of how we do this (on pages that are actually
 content-language negotiated too), see [3].
 
 Hope that helps,
 RI
 
 [1] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html
 [2]
 http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/outline/html-authoring-outline
 .html
 [3] http://www.w3.org/International/O-charset
 
 
 Richard Ishida
 W3C
 
 contact info:
 http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
 
 W3C Internationalization:
 http://www.w3.org/International/
 
 Publication blog:
 http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Foss
  Sent: 14 November 2004 20:56
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [WSG] International Pages Check
 
  Thanks for the link Paul - that's a good one.
 
  Rick: Thanks for checking it out. I thought about the caption
  idea, and at first thought yeah, that makes sense, but then
  I figured that if you don't recognise the flag, there's a
  fair chance you won't speak the language anyway! Or am I just
  being belligerent? If I'm going to add captions they should
  be in the foreign language?
 
  Cheers
  Jason.
 
  PS is the server still slow? Temporary issue I hope...
 
 
  On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:27:24 -0700, Paul Jones
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   There is no language identified in the DOCTYPE and the
  html tag (I
   only checked the Spanish and Mandarin pages).
  
   |This link may be helpful:|
  
  |http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_7_identifying_your_language.html
   ||
   ||
   |Paul|
   ||
   ||
   ||
  
  
   Jason Foss wrote:
  
Hi all,
   
This site is still well and truly in draft stage (I know
  - the menu
is still up the spout!) but looking for feedback
  specifically on the
internationalisation of the following pages:
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-german.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-swedish.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-spanish.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-mandarin.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-cantonese.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-japanese.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-korean.php
http://www.rrdl.com.au/cqieta/info-thai.php
   
First time I've had a crack at foreign character sets -
  any feedback
on this aspect of the site would be much appreciated!
   
Cheers
Jason
   
  
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  --
  Jason Foss
  Almost Anything Desktop Publishing
  www.almost-anything.com.au
  Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North
  Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia We can do almost anything!
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-- 
Jason Foss
Almost Anything Desktop Publishing
www.almost-anything.com.au
Windows

[WSG] -moz-border-radius

2004-11-14 Thread Neerav

Lindsay
I note that you're using the proprietary -moz-border-radius to achieve a 
rounded look just like I decided to a month ago at www.bhatt.id.au after 
evaluating the various rounded corner methods and finding them to be a 
pain to implement

I contend that while it does make the stylesheet invalid, it shouldnt 
cause parsing errors because its the last few lines of my CSS file, its 
use is harmless and is OK for personal sites.

more details 
www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/properties/extensions/nsextensions.htm
http://www.webreference.com/dhtml/column70/

-moz-border-radius,
-moz-border-radius-topleft, -moz-border-radius-topright,
-moz-border-radius-bottomleft, -moz-border-radius-bottomright
Support: Netscape 7+, Mozilla 0.95+
Inherited: No
Allowed Values:
- Inherit: Use the value of this property from the parent element.
- [Length]: Specifies a length and unit of the border/corner radius.
- [Percentage]: Specifies a percentage. Not sure of what the percentage 
relates to.

Purpose:
This property controls the curve radius of borders at the corners, 
allowing corners to be rounded (otherwise, borders are usually squared 
off.) The '-moz-border-radius' property is a shorthand method for 
controlling this effect for each corner. If one value is specified, it 
applies to all corners. If only two values exist, the first applies to 
the top-left and bottom-right, while the second value applies to the 
top-right and bottom-left. If all four values are specified, they 
control, in order: [top-left] [top-right] [bottom-right] [bottom-left]

Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development  IT consultancy
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
Lindsay Evans wrote:
In order to stop Russ from hassling me about it every time I see him,
I've thrown together a small demo/explanation of the latest  greatest
image replacement method (well, 'fancy heading method', really):
http://lindsayevans.com/experiments/lindsaymethod_2/
I'm sure I'm not the first to use it, but I can't find much mention of
it anywhere else, so I might as well get my name on it before Doug
Bowman or someone does :p
Feel free to point out all the flaws, spelling mistakes, ethically
questionable uses of CSS, etc.
Oh, and I launched my new design over the weekend:
http://lindsayevans.com/
Yes, I am well aware of all of the validation errors, each weighs
heavily upon my soul, but I wanted to get it live before I got bored
with it  started redesigning yet again.
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RE: [WSG] Faux columns not staying horizontal

2004-11-14 Thread Bert Doorn

G'day

 My website at http://mavos.net/ is messing with my head. 
...
 right column falls down below the content.
 Any ideas why this is happening? It's driving me crazy.

Looks like the IE Doubled Float-Margin Bug.  As a result of the double
(left) margin, there's not enough room for your #menu div within the
#container div so MSIE drops it below the #content div.

See http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.html for a
description AND a solution.

Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Web Developer
Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au




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Fw: [WSG] Site check please - launched it finally!

2004-11-14 Thread Maureen Beattie

Just asmall point Mike but in the section
Webcam you have a spelling error, teh instead of the.

Cheers
Maureen Beattie

Hugh, thanks for your suggestions. I'm sorry that in the rush
yesterday I didn't thank you for your input. I've implemented all of
your suggestions and I have a better site now as a result. Thanks
I notice that on one page now that the fonts are smaller, the
flow of text has resulted in some orphan text alongside an image, so I'll have
to change the standard image width a bit i think.
But broadly speaking, the site is something I am quite pleased
with.I should also say that the radio community is far more impressed
than this group. I have had a number of gushing testimonials from
webmasters at other stations.For the record, I've racked up 67 hours
on this project so far, and maybe another 60 or so to go before I'll call it
complete and in the maintenance only phase. In addition to the CSS,
i've written all my own code. It's fully dynamic, with access
going to be given to about 60 people to different parts of the site for
different roles. Each can work on their own parts of the site without it
appearing in public until it's ready and approved by someone with the right
authority level. In addition we're going to be taking 2 web services
feeds, and providing half a dozen to other sites.I'm really thrilled
with how fast it loads even though it's hosted on a shared environment in the
midwest of the USA.Anyway, thanks for everyone's help with this site
(it's http://hawkradio.org.au if you're
coming in late to the discussion) and I'm still interested in anyone's input
about any aspect of the site, as long as it's polite.CheersMike
KearAFP WebworksWindsor, NSW, Australia

Re: [WSG] The Lindsay Method, version 2

Lindsay Evans wrote:
http://lindsayevans.com/experiments/lindsaymethod_2/
You forgot to close the second comment. Fundamentally though, unless I'm 
missing something: if you have an image with alpha transparency, you get 
duplication (at least in Firefox) . The normal heading is rendered, 
regardless of the font embedding not working (as you also provided 
fallback fonts). Additionally, I seem to be getting the image on its own 
line, and the normal text on the following one. As I said, maybe I'm 
missing something...

Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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Re: Underscores and multiple class names (WAS: Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue)

2004-11-14 Thread Natalie Buxton

I understand the sillyness of class names like 'red' 'blue' 'bold'
'fontname' etc, but what is wrong with assigning multiple class names
to an object?

For example, I have many images on a page, some need a border, others
don't. Some with borders need to also be floated, while others don't.

I achieve this with using multiple classes on the object eg
class=borders floatR or just class=floatR for those that don't
need the border, but must float.
Is there an issue with this method or have a missed the point of your post?




On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:43:24 +1100, Chris Blown
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Multiple class names, a trap for younger players class=arial bold
 red big
 
 Don't laugh... I've seen it done .. and it was thought cool at the time,
 until they were told otherwise..or cracked over the head, I can't
 recall.. ;)
 
 and look to make it blue all you do is change the class name to from
 red to blue, pretty cool eh?
 
 *shivers*
 
 Regards
 Chris Blown
 
 
 
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Re: [WSG] Height in IE6 for Windows

2004-11-14 Thread Natalie Buxton

I'll often use padding to cater to browsers that ignore the min-height
or height attribute.


On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 11:05:22 +1100, Damian Sweeney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Damian
 
 I took out the min-height: out. Does that make any change?
 
 HTML: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRFHeader.htm
 
 CSS: http://www.choroideremia.org/New/CRF_css1.css
 
 This now looks broken in Firefox (image smaller and too high) and the
 image doesn't display at all in Safari.  You've also now got height:
 4empx in the logowrapper definition.
 
 Damian
 
 
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Re: [WSG] The Lindsay Method, version 2

2004-11-14 Thread Lindsay Evans

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:54:36 +, Patrick H. Lauke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You forgot to close the second comment.

Ooops, thanks. Fixed now.
The perils of copy n' paste :p

 Fundamentally though, unless I'm
 missing something: if you have an image with alpha transparency, you get
 duplication (at least in Firefox) . The normal heading is rendered,
 regardless of the font embedding not working (as you also provided
 fallback fonts). Additionally, I seem to be getting the image on its own
 line, and the normal text on the following one. As I said, maybe I'm
 missing something...

Hmm, you're quite right.
It *does* work in Firefox, I must've just left something important
out, probably a height or something along those lines. That's what I
get for throwing things together in a rush :)

I'll fix when I get home.

-- 
Lindsay Evans
http://lindsayevans.com/
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Re: [WSG] Validate Inside Your Firewall

2004-11-14 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On 15 Nov 2004, at 7:07 am, John Horner wrote:
and here are specific instructions for installing it on Mac OSX from 
Apple

 http://developer.apple.com/internet/opensource/validator.html
and some less formal advice from Mediaville
 http://www.mediaville.net/articles/validator/
That Mediaville article is a bit outdated, as the W3C has made the 
process slightly more easy. The article on Apple's website has been 
updated to reflect this.

I did have some problems editing the config file on OS X:
http://emps.l-c-n.com/articles/72/html-validator-2
Other than that, it installs as a breeze, and it is extremely useful to 
have on your local dev server, esp when you work with dynamic pages 
(includes, etc).

Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/
code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
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Re: Underscores and multiple class names (WAS: Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue)

2004-11-14 Thread Chris Blown

Hi Natalie
I achieve this with using multiple classes on the object eg
class=borders floatR or just class=floatR for those that don't
need the border, but must float.
Is there an issue with this method or have a missed the point of your post?
 

I have used the exact method you describe, and I likewise wondered about 
the issues.

It comes down to a couple of things ( other WSG member might add to this 
too )

Usually the elements you are styling like this are groups of images or 
groups of other similar elements.

If you need to alter the position of one you have to edit the markup and 
that feels a bit like presentation in the markup.
If you want to alter the complete group then you could edit the CSS, but 
now your naming is wrong floatR should be floatL for example, Then 
you really should to do a global search replace in the markup to get it 
straight.

Though there is a case for this in relation to reducing CSS redundancy.
Regards
Chris Blown
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Re: [WSG] Validate Inside Your Firewall