Re: [WSG] Correct use of fieldset
Many thanks for your advice on the subject. I guess kind of got caught up in the part that said the proper use of this element makes documents more accessible. I've never actually sat down and properly read through these documents cover to cover and so I've started picking a different chapter each month to read through. When I got to the fieldset section I got a little over-excited :-) Don't worry about it mate - this stuff takes a long time to sink your teeth into - just keep posting questions when you're not sure of something... as long as its not about font sizes :). Also bear in mind that there are rarely absolute right and wrong answers and its easy to get trapped in a cycle of navel gazing and splitting hairs - check http://www.simplebits.com/notebook/2004/08/04/sq.html for beautiful example. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
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[WSG] using br - was [ image captions?]
- Original Message - From: Thorsten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] image captions? why don't you put the image plus caption into a div and float that div? div class=imgleft img /br / caption text /div Thanks Thorsten, That's what I intended of course, but I wasn't sure how to get the text underneath the image. Am I really allowed a br/ then? Isn't that considered 'presentational? Anyone? Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] using br - was [ image captions?]
G'day
That's what I intended of course, but I wasn't sure how to
get the text underneath the image. Am I really allowed a
br/ then? Isn't that considered 'presentational?
Matter of opinion, but I do use br elements for this purpose and I can still
sleep at night. If nothing else, it separates the image's alt text from the
caption (in non graphical browsers). If you don't like the br in there, you
could set the image to display:block and if you want the text centered, put
text-align:center on the div.
Using the earlier example (though the class name sounds presentational to
me):
xHTML:
div class=imgleftimg /caption text/div
CSS:
div.imgleft {
width: 200px; /* or whatever is appropriate */
float:left;
text-align:center;
}
div.imgleft img { display:block; }
Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Web Developer
Better Web Design
www.betterwebdesign.com.au
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Re: [WSG] using br - was [ image captions?]
Thanks Thorsten, That's what I intended of course, but I wasn't sure how to get the text underneath the image. Am I really allowed a br/ then? Isn't that considered 'presentational? Anyone? why not add a clear: right; on the image, and contain the whole lot in a div... or use the faithful dl. D ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fangs Screen Reader Emulator
thanks! its an interesting bit of software, though still in testing and not fully functional yet Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bhatt.id.au/photos/ http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Joseph Lindsay wrote: I've just a cool firefox extension: Fangs: The Firefox Screen Reader Emulator at standards-schmandards. The developer has released it so the they can get feedback and suggestions. http://www.standards-schmandards.com/index.php?2004/11/22/8-fangs-release-05 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please
Boke, There is no reason at all that the validator would choke on Turkish characters, if the text is properly encoded in utf-8. I ran a test, and think I know what the problem is. If you run the validator on your current page [1], but tell it that the encoding is utf-8 (which it is not - it's iso-8859-9), you get exactly the same error message. This suggests to me that you didn't actually save your file as UTF-8, you just changed the encoding declaration in the meta tag. You should try saving the file as utf-8 (see how to do this for various editors [2]), and change the encoding declaration. Then it should work. RI [1] http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fira.com.tr%2Fy%2Fcharset=utf -8doctype=Inlineverbose=1 [2] http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-setting-encoding-in-application s Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 21:35 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Lang attributes: Fixed. UTF-8 instead of ISO: Here's the validator's message: Sorry, I am unable to validate this document because on lines 7-9, 11, 79, 84, 86-87, 89-92, 101, 104-107, 114 it contained one or more bytes that I cannot interpret as utf-8 (in other words, the bytes found are not valid values in the specified Character Encoding). Please check both the content of the file and the character encoding indication. It doesn't like the Turkish characters. I simply won't write any UTF-8 codes while writing an article to my web site. If it doesn't validate my web page some day some how because of Turkish characters, I won't mind if my pages render correct. If my pages don't render correct with the Turkish characters in the code, I will use Flash. ;) Because English speaking people can simply write for the web by hitting one character they know. Why shoulf non-English speaking people like me bother character entities etc? Also, I know I can use findreplace on multi files at the same time, but I won't do that. Then I will have to backup two copies of each page (eg. if I want to use my text elsewhere, what will I do then? Reconvert to the original?). - Why? - Because W3C said so. Thank you for your comment. --- Boke Yuzgen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will fix lang when I go home. I'm at work now. I use W3C's validator. I will also post the error it reports when I use UTF-8 when I go home. Thank you, --- Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. Which validator are you using? By rights, it shouldn't validate as is, since XML requires an XML declaration (ie. ?xml version=1.0 encoding=iso-8859-9?) when not using utf-8. Did you note the comment about lang attributes? RI Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 12:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Idid it first, but my pages won't validate if I use UTF-8. --- Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please change html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en lang=en to html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=tr lang=tr Have you considered using UTF-8, rather than charset=iso-8859-9 ? Hope that helps, RI Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 09:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Hi, Can you please review this site? Site language is not English. http://yuzgen.com/ Thanks in advance, -- Boke Yuzgen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help
RE: [WSG] turkish text - can you assign a language or encoding to a div?
Hello Ted, Bear in mind that language declarations are totally separate from character encodings. For example, French can be encoded in several different ways, and utf-8 can represent many different languages. Language information is used for things like spellchecking, styling, speech synthesis, etc. Character encoding indicates what characters should be interpreted from the bytes in the code. Note also that there can only be a single encoding for a page. Hope that helps, RI Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: 22 November 2004 22:00 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] turkish text - can you assign a language or encoding to a div? If you are doing a web site and you only have sporadic use of turkish characters, can't you wrap that text in a div and assign it a language? I haven't done this before so I'm asking not suggesting. But I thought that I have seen that as a semantic way to show that there will be languages other than the native on a page. Now, is there also a way to designate the character encoding on a div or span? Ted Lang attributes: Fixed. UTF-8 instead of ISO: Here's the validator's message: Sorry, I am unable to validate this document because on lines 7-9, 11, 79, 84, 86-87, 89-92, 101, 104-107, 114 it contained one or more bytes that I cannot interpret as utf-8 (in other words, the bytes found are not valid values in the specified Character Encoding). Please check both the content of the file and the character encoding indication. It doesn't like the Turkish characters. I simply won't write any UTF-8 codes while writing an article to my web site. If it doesn't validate my web page some day some how because of Turkish characters, I won't mind if my pages render correct. If my pages don't render correct with the Turkish characters in the code, I will use Flash. ;) Because English speaking people can simply write for the web by hitting one character they know. Why shoulf non-English speaking people like me bother character entities etc? Also, I know I can use findreplace on multi files at the same time, but I won't do that. Then I will have to backup two copies of each page (eg. if I want to use my text elsewhere, what will I do then? Reconvert to the original?). - Why? - Because W3C said so. Thank you for your comment. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] netscape 7.1 and CSS
Greetings again. I thank you very much for the help you've provided me so far. Here's another question. ;) I have a web visitor who is using Netscape 7.1 and apparently isn't seeing the stylesheet of my site (http://cslewis.drzeus.net) -- is there some kind of known bug I need to work with, or could it be a user error? Thanks. -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site critique please
Thanks, Steve I see what you mean (1280 x 1024) but don't know how to counteract this. I have the image set to repeat-y and the background colour set to white to blend in with the far right of the image. It looks like the image is repeating. Kind regards Lyn Steve Winter wrote: Lyn, It may be worth your taking a look at the site with a reasonably high resolution set...some of the background images don't work so well (IMO) at high resolutions (eg 1280 x 1024) Cheers Steve ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/
Kathryn Ross wrote at Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:59:29 +1100: document http://www.scottschiller.com/ Firefox's busy wheel has been spinning on this for over a half hour now without putting any text on a page. Anyone else? -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] image captions again
- Original Message -
From: Bert Doorn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:10 AM
xHTML:
div class=imgleftimg /caption text/div
CSS:
div.imgleft {
width: 200px; /* or whatever is appropriate */
float:left;
text-align:center;
}
div.imgleft img { display:block; }
Thanks Bert,
I tried this, but it messed up my text justification and line height in the
text to the right. I've obviously got my blocks and inlines mixed up
somewhere? A simple demo of this can be seen (inc CSS) at:
http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/imagesintext.html
Anything scream out at you? Anyone?
Thanks
Bob McClelland,
Cornwall (U.K.)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
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[WSG] placing a footer flush to th bottom of page with css
www.inisbua.co.uk/v2/index.php I have coloured the backgrounds with green and blue to make distinction easier I am using a reset class as an attempt to clear objects from each other, everything I try seems to have no effect ie6 display correctly ff does no apply height to cont-wrapper at tall opera doe it proper this leaves me confused any help pointers appreciated div id=wrapper (Blue Background 100% width height no margins or padding) div id=baseDisp (Green Background 100% width height no margins or padding) div id=masthead div id=mheaderh1Inisbua/h1/div div id=logo/div div id=nav-wrapper/div /div div class=reset/div div id=cont-wrapper div id=main ... /div div id=sidebar ... /div /div /div div class=reset/div div id=footer div id=ftnavftnav/div /div thanks Sam ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/
Works fine for me in Firefox. Works fine in IE too. On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:53:50 -0500, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kathryn Ross wrote at Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:59:29 +1100: document http://www.scottschiller.com/ Firefox's busy wheel has been spinning on this for over a half hour now without putting any text on a page. Anyone else? -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: image captions again
Ignore my last message - I realised I'm putting a block level div in an inline p Duh! :-) But I don't know how to get around it . . . . http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/imagesintext.html Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/
Worked fine for me.. FF 1 On 11/23/2004 8:53:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kathryn Ross wrote at Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:59:29 +1100: document http://www.scottschiller.com/ Firefox's busy wheel has been spinning on this for over a half hour now without putting any text on a page. Anyone else? -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Re: image captions again
Use span instead of div. That seems to give a more pleasant outcome. Regards, Gary On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:10:35 -, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ignore my last message - I realised I'm putting a block level div in an inline p Duh! :-) But I don't know how to get around it . . . . http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/imagesintext.html Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/
it jumps like that because no CSS is actually loaded (well - nothing that has any signifcant impact on style) until the JS routine runs after the rest of the page is loaded. It could be fixed easily by having a default style that made eveything hidden to begin with. Then the script could enable the startup state. I got the content, but also got a flash of unstyled content - not very nice. Once it got there, it was a very nice site, but this FOUC clearly needs attending to. . . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Re: image captions again
G'day Ignore my last message - I realised I'm putting a block level div in an inline p Duh! :-) But I don't know how to get around it . . . . Close the paragraph before you open the div and start a new paragraph after the div. Putting the image with alt and caption inline (with span as suggested by Gary) may work, but you may get some strange effects in non graphical browsers (search engines, assistive technology): ...convallis ornare, tortor A picture . . . nibh ultricies ante... Regards -- Bert Doorn, Web Developer Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please
Richard, It sounds interesting. I never knew it, my bad. I thought UTF-8 format is plain text. I will give it a try when I go home. Thank you very much. --- Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boke, There is no reason at all that the validator would choke on Turkish characters, if the text is properly encoded in utf-8. I ran a test, and think I know what the problem is. If you run the validator on your current page [1], but tell it that the encoding is utf-8 (which it is not - it's iso-8859-9), you get exactly the same error message. This suggests to me that you didn't actually save your file as UTF-8, you just changed the encoding declaration in the meta tag. You should try saving the file as utf-8 (see how to do this for various editors [2]), and change the encoding declaration. Then it should work. RI [1] http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fira.com.tr%2Fy%2Fcharset=utf -8doctype=Inlineverbose=1 [2] http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-setting-encoding-in-application s Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 21:35 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Lang attributes: Fixed. UTF-8 instead of ISO: Here's the validator's message: Sorry, I am unable to validate this document because on lines 7-9, 11, 79, 84, 86-87, 89-92, 101, 104-107, 114 it contained one or more bytes that I cannot interpret as utf-8 (in other words, the bytes found are not valid values in the specified Character Encoding). Please check both the content of the file and the character encoding indication. It doesn't like the Turkish characters. I simply won't write any UTF-8 codes while writing an article to my web site. If it doesn't validate my web page some day some how because of Turkish characters, I won't mind if my pages render correct. If my pages don't render correct with the Turkish characters in the code, I will use Flash. ;) Because English speaking people can simply write for the web by hitting one character they know. Why shoulf non-English speaking people like me bother character entities etc? Also, I know I can use findreplace on multi files at the same time, but I won't do that. Then I will have to backup two copies of each page (eg. if I want to use my text elsewhere, what will I do then? Reconvert to the original?). - Why? - Because W3C said so. Thank you for your comment. --- Boke Yuzgen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will fix lang when I go home. I'm at work now. I use W3C's validator. I will also post the error it reports when I use UTF-8 when I go home. Thank you, --- Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. Which validator are you using? By rights, it shouldn't validate as is, since XML requires an XML declaration (ie. ?xml version=1.0 encoding=iso-8859-9?) when not using utf-8. Did you note the comment about lang attributes? RI Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 12:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Idid it first, but my pages won't validate if I use UTF-8. --- Richard Ishida [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please change html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en lang=en to html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=tr lang=tr Have you considered using UTF-8, rather than charset=iso-8859-9 ? Hope that helps, RI Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boke Yuzgen Sent: 22 November 2004 09:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] yuzgen.com review please Hi, Can you please review this site?
[WSG] Fieldsets can be used outside the box - Correct use of fieldset
I think a fieldset could be used outside a form if you are using it to group similar links. We can fixate on the name or look at the purpose. It says, the fields inside it are related. If the standards say it can be outside a form than we can use it to group similar objects. I have used it to group similar links and don't feel it is inappropriate. For instance, we have a packinglist on our site. It is broken up into different categories, such as clothing, personal effects, electronics, etc. I could easily put each section in a div to give it the presentation but that is just an unordered list in a div, no strong relationship is implied. I could put an H3 tag before the list. Better, but there is still no direct relationship between the header tag and the list, just an implied relationship. With a fieldset, I am able to label this list as clothing items and reinforce the relationship between these items. If the goal of semantic coding is to give data context, which is one of my favorite parts, I think a fieldset could be used outside a form. Ted -Original Message- From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 8:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Correct use of fieldset Hi Brad Welcome to the list. According to the HTML 4.01 DTD, Fieldset can live outside a form block. But it you find yourself putting outside one you're probably due for a sanity check. Are you using it for semantic purposes or just for presentational purposes? If you're using it for semantic purposes (to group a set of fields together), you'll probably want to check why you are putting form fields outside a form - they are pretty useless out there! If you're using it for presentational purposes, then the hardcore standards crew will probably put a hex on you and your family. This is basically the same as using tables for visual layout. If you can do the same thing using more appropriate elements and some CSS, you'll be blessed with eternal good karma and will be worshipped as a standards guru by the millions of list members. Enjoy. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fieldsets can be used outside the box - Correct use of fieldset
On Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:22 AM, Ted Drake wrote: I think a fieldset could be used outside a form if you are using it to group similar links. We can fixate on the name or look at the purpose. It says, the fields inside it are related. If the standards say it can be outside a form than we can use it to group similar objects. Let's just clarify this -- the DTD says that a fieldset can be outside a form, but only really because it is defined as a block level element. I don't think that supercedes the intent of the element though. As you said, look at its purpose: The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET And controls are form fields of some sort: buttons, checkboxes, radio buttons, text boxes, textareas, file selects, etc... http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.2 I'd say that using fieldset and legend to present groups of links in this way is twisting its meaning completely. If you want the closest semantic relationship possible for presenting a list of related links, you might consider a definition list. The title of the group of links is the dt/dt and each of the links could be the dd/dd. You might even use a properly-coded, semantically-structured table to do the job. My preference would be to use appropriate headings with a ul/ul, or even a nested list structure, but I can't see using fieldset for it... Best regards, Derek. -- Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 613.599.9784; toll-free: 1.866.932.4878 (North America) Web Accessibility: http://www.wats.ca Personal: http://www.boxofchocolates.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fieldsets can be used outside the box - Correct use of fieldset
I can appreciate the dl approach. I'm often worried that I will end up abusing the dl as the table was abused in the past. It is true that the dt could label the lists and the dd's could include the list elements. The list items would be related. I think I will even re-approach our page next week. Thanks Ted -Original Message- From: Derek Featherstone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 8:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Fieldsets can be used outside the box - Correct use of fieldset On Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:22 AM, Ted Drake wrote: I think a fieldset could be used outside a form if you are using it to group similar links. We can fixate on the name or look at the purpose. It says, the fields inside it are related. If the standards say it can be outside a form than we can use it to group similar objects. Let's just clarify this -- the DTD says that a fieldset can be outside a form, but only really because it is defined as a block level element. I don't think that supercedes the intent of the element though. As you said, look at its purpose: The FIELDSET element allows authors to group thematically related controls and labels. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET And controls are form fields of some sort: buttons, checkboxes, radio buttons, text boxes, textareas, file selects, etc... http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.2 I'd say that using fieldset and legend to present groups of links in this way is twisting its meaning completely. If you want the closest semantic relationship possible for presenting a list of related links, you might consider a definition list. The title of the group of links is the dt/dt and each of the links could be the dd/dd. You might even use a properly-coded, semantically-structured table to do the job. My preference would be to use appropriate headings with a ul/ul, or even a nested list structure, but I can't see using fieldset for it... Best regards, Derek. -- Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 613.599.9784; toll-free: 1.866.932.4878 (North America) Web Accessibility: http://www.wats.ca Personal: http://www.boxofchocolates.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] li element with a sticky+remote rollover
I want a list of products which on mouse over triggers a preview image to the left of the list as well as an arrow pointing to the product currently being previewed. The arrow and preview are sticky; if you mouse off of one without hitting another, nothing will change. This would be easy with a three column table, some rowspans, and a little javascript. I want the list of products to be represented in the code as an unordered list. I used a class with a list-style of an image to set the arrow, with javascript swapping the preview image and the class of the li based on a mouseover call dynamically added to the li: http://itgtradingcards.bivia.com/li_with_bullet.html Works in Mac OS X Firefox 1, Safari 1.2, and IE 5.2; Win NT 4 and XP SP2 Firefox 1, Opera 7, Mozilla 1.4 and IE 6. (In these examples, only the first preview image is real; the others are a clear gif for testing.) The designer would prefer pixel-placement of the bullet, which is different in different browsers. So I re-made the idea, using a background on the li tag, and setting the display:block; and the list-style:none; (Win IE displayed a bullet for the li even with display:block;). http://itgtradingcards.bivia.com/li_with_bg.html I like this much better, as it allows pixel-perfect layout while maintaining proper semantics in the unordered list. Problem is, it's not working as I expected except in Gecko browsers. Success: Mac OS X Firefox 1, Win NT 4 Mozilla 1.4 Failure: Mac OS X Safari 1.2, Mac OS X IE 5.2, Win NT IE 6 The odd thing is that Safari and IE (on both platforms) are rendering it basically the same: the li text bumps up flush with the img (regardless of the margin-left of the li, until that margin-left exceeds the width of the img), and the background of the li is positioned centered under the image. These browsers don't normally agree, which makes me wonder if Gecko is displaying it wrong even if it's what I expect. Any help would be appreciated. Unrelated to the problem, but part of the same code: I wanted the preview image url to be pulled from something that was semantically helpful, rather than arbitrary like a javascript parameter. I settled on inserting it into the title of the li; the javascript then grabs that text and blanks the title so the browser doesn't pop up unneeded text. Comments on this technique's merits (or lack thereof) would be appreciated. -- Ben Curtis WebSciences International http://www.websciences.org/ v: (310) 478-6648 f: (310) 235-2067 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] positioning problems on netscape
i was building a web page and started to use some divs tag and style configuration. I was testing it on IE and everything was fine, but after i finished i opened it on netscape. That´s where the styles weren´t working and all positioning stuff were messed up. The style i fixed just removing some quotes (i´m really new on this) but i couldn´t find out why the hell it was all messed up. what am i doing wrong? div style=position:absolute; left:x; top:y; yara yara yara /div if anybody would like to take a look not my design but. www.quintfotos.com.br []´s Matheus Neves _ Quer mais velocidade? Só com o acesso Aditivado iG, a velocidade que você quer na hora que você precisa. Clique aqui: http://www.acessoaditivado.ig.com.br
Re: [WSG] positioning problems on netscape
hello - the problem you are experiencing is that netscape (and firefox, which the design also dosn't work in) use a slightly different box model than IE, which translates visually into the occasional extra whitspace at points (also, they tend to have different default padding and margin settings). Something you might try, is to use the botao.gif as a background image for the div's containing the link, that will fix your centering issues, but I would also take a look at how your doing some other things. Your code has a number of validation errors in it right now, resolving some of them might help the visual appearance some. good luck! ~j (on another note, I do really like some of your visual presentation. Got some nice looking elements) On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:47:54 -0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i was building a web page and started to use some divs tag and style configuration. I was testing it on IE and everything was fine, but after i finished i opened it on netscape. That´s where the styles weren´t working and all positioning stuff were messed up. The style i fixed just removing some quotes (i´m really new on this) but i couldn´t find out why the hell it was all messed up. what am i doing wrong? div style=position:absolute; left:x; top:y; yara yara yara /div if anybody would like to take a look not my design but. www.quintfotos.com.br []´s Matheus Neves _ Quer mais velocidade? Só com o acesso Aditivado iG, a velocidade que você quer na hora que você precisa. Clique aqui: http://www.acessoaditivado.ig.com.br -- Jonathan T. Sage Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer Professional Web Design [HTTP://www.JTSage.com] [HTTP://design.JTSage.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [See Headers for Contact Info] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] positioning problems on netscape
Hello Matheus, Before even starting to address the problem, you need to do a couple of things. I notice your styles are completely embedded in your HTML. Additionally, you are not declaring a doctype in your HTML file, which could be part of the problem. I would recommend that you research a bit about doctypes and put the appropriate doctype declaration on your file, try creating an external CSS file with your styles in it and reference it from the HTML file, then try validating both to see if there are any issues that come up. A good place to start learning about doctypes is http://www.w3.org where you can then type into the search field doctype and you'll find some good links within the W3C site to help you. That site also has HTML and CSS validators to help you spot any problems within your code. If the issue persists, then we can begin to suggest some solutions to your problem. Another suggestion is to develop for Netscape/Mozilla/Opera first, then tweak for IE. The reason for this is because IE's flawed box model (among other things) needs to be compensated for, while the other browsers are much more Web standards compliant. Leslie Riggs i was building a web page and started to use some divs tag and style configuration. I was testing it on IE and everything was fine, but after i finished i opened it on netscape. That´s where the styles weren´t working and all positioning stuff were messed up. The style i fixed just removing some quotes (i´m really new on this) but i couldn´t find out why the hell it was all messed up. what am i doing wrong? div style=position:absolute; left:x; top:y; yara yara yara /div if anybody would like to take a look not my design but. www.quintfotos.com.br []´s Matheus Neves _ Quer mais velocidade? Só com o acesso Aditivado iG, a velocidade que você quer na hora que você precisa. Clique aqui: http://www.acessoaditivado.ig.com.br ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] why oh why
A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:59:58 +1100, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm That's an easy one. The page's been served as text/plain. Firefox is doing The Right Thing :) -- Manuel a veces :) a veces :( pero siempre trabajando duro para Simplelógica: apariencia, experiencia y comunicación en la web. http://simplelogica.net # (+34) 985 22 12 65 ¡Ah! y escribiendo en Logicola: http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. The server says the file is text/plain, so that's exactly how Gecko treats it. Fix broken server, solve problem. -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Sorry I can't replicate the problem - Firefox 1.0 on XP and Mac Cheers Jeff Lowder Accessibility 1st E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.accessibility1st.com.au Blog: http://www.accessibility1st.com.au/journal/ On 24/11/04 9:59 AM, Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
That's funny, it works just fine in my version of FF 1.0... I'm using Win2K, all patched up and ready to go. What about everyone else? Charlie Web Usability has created a disturbance in the Force. I felt its presence on 11/23/2004 5:59 PM. Its substance was as follows: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Strangely I have no problem loading the site in Firefox 1.0 on Windows XP. It does load in non-standards mode but it appears as a normal page not code. Ryan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
I doubt it is a problem with FF. Most likely the server is not set up correctly and is sending the file as text/plain not as text/html. It works in IE because IE renders the document based on the file extension not the header information and/or instruction from the server. Terrence Wood. On 2004-11-24 11:59 AM, Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- *** Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
HTML renders for me, using Firefox 1.0 . Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. Rises out from lurk mode I don't have any problem seeing it with FF1.0 . /back to lurk mode William Haggerty VWH Web Services http://vwh.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
- Original Message - http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. Roger slithering out again from lurk mode and on second look maybe it because it's being served up as text/plain instead of text/html /slipping back into lurk again William Haggerty VWH Web Services http://vwh.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Superior Tutorials
This is where I began: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/index.html Shane Helm On Nov 23, 2004, at 12:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: x-tad-biggerDoes anyone know of any superior tutorial sites for CSS./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm Roger, As others have said, the problem is the 'text/plain' I've noted that http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm does not open in FF 1.0, but oddly http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/ works fine Cheers, Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] why oh why 2 for foxers
And now one for the foxers, Why the difference between FF 0.9 and FF 1.0 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mike bailey Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 2004 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] why oh why HTML renders for me, using Firefox 1.0 . Web Usability wrote: A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. NB for the Firefoxers, don't hate me for I'm not suggesting this is a problem with Firefox. Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Using FF1.0 on a WinME machine, it doesn't render - I see the code instead. Same result with FF1.0 on XP SP2. Leslie Riggs A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. Rises out from lurk mode I don't have any problem seeing it with FF1.0 . /back to lurk mode William Haggerty VWH Web Services http://vwh.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Superior Tutorials
I'm surprised that nobody has recommended starting at the WSG resources page: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/ On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:38:28 -0700, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is where I began: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/basics/index.html Shane Helm On Nov 23, 2004, at 12:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any superior tutorial sites for CSS. J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/ -- Gravity always wins ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why
Probably because IE is more forgiving if the server does not have the correct MIME types set up ?? That's just a guess - but it is probably close to an answer. Regards, Gary On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:59:05 -0600, Leslie Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Using FF1.0 on a WinME machine, it doesn't render - I see the code instead. Same result with FF1.0 on XP SP2. Leslie Riggs A friend of mine came across this site yesterday and when he accessed it with Firefox he got nothing but code on the screen. http://www.ceinternet.com.au/site/index.htm I tried it with Firefox 0.9 this morning and got the same result. However when the site is viewed with MSIE 6 and NS 7 you get the actual page. Needless to say there is a wee validation problem. Anybody got any ideas why it behaves so diffently with Firefox. Rises out from lurk mode I don't have any problem seeing it with FF1.0 . /back to lurk mode William Haggerty VWH Web Services http://vwh.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] why oh why 2 for foxers
Web Usability wrote: Why the difference between FF 0.9 and FF 1.0 Bug fixes mostly: http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/releases/1.0.html -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... U.S. Constitution, Amendment 1 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Customers who won't pay
Hi This is the first time I've emailed you and I'm sorry if this a why-did-i-click-on-this-as-it-as-no-bearing-on-me type stuff but i've just had a meeting with a friend who wanted us to build a site for her - cms inc. type thing - it's taken a long time; first time we've done cms stuff and tried to go the best practice/w3c/accessible route as much as we can - now she's saying that due that her personal situation, she can't pay is until it becomes a massive hit eg 2mill hits! ok i know i was stupid not to get something signed up front but the specs kept changing - now, this is more complex that what we paid £35K for at work. Can anyone help me with the line i should take? Anyone have this type of experience before? Am embarrassed by my naivety. Sorry if this is not appropriate for WSG. cheers tho' ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Customers who won't pay
Hi Tash THREAD CLOSED Firstly I want to close this thread because this is not appropriate to WSG (sorry). Can anyone help me with the line i should take? Anyone have this type of experience before? Am embarrassed by my naivety. Sorry if this is not appropriate for WSG. I think this has probably happened to everyone on this list in one way or another at some point. There is not much you can do, unless you want to start talking to lawyers. Firstly - stop working immeidately, don't be nasty, just state that you need to renegotiate before continuning. Then treat the whole thing as a learning experience and never start work on a project until you have a documented signed off specification for what you are building and a contract that commits the client to paying for it. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Customers who won't pay
Hiya Thanks for your response and am really really sorry for using this as my advice-line but up until about half a minute ago was feeling a tad disallusioned. I really appreciate your good advice; I pretty much know I've been burnt. I s'pose I can try to use it as countless code-filled hours of learning in all facets of web-related business... Thanks again T On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:36:16 +1100, Mark Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tash THREAD CLOSED Firstly I want to close this thread because this is not appropriate to WSG (sorry). Can anyone help me with the line i should take? Anyone have this type of experience before? Am embarrassed by my naivety. Sorry if this is not appropriate for WSG. I think this has probably happened to everyone on this list in one way or another at some point. There is not much you can do, unless you want to start talking to lawyers. Firstly - stop working immeidately, don't be nasty, just state that you need to renegotiate before continuning. Then treat the whole thing as a learning experience and never start work on a project until you have a documented signed off specification for what you are building and a contract that commits the client to paying for it. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE5/Mac Again
On 24 Nov 2004, at 10:29 am, Jonathan T. Sage wrote:
Alright, I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening.
In FF, NS, IE/Win, the #Aca div has been forced on for this page.
However, for IE/Mac, it isn't there. (or is there when the mouseover
and the javascript happens). Any ideas on this? It seems to be
inheriting something that dosn't agree with it, but I have no idea
where from.
http://thr.msu.edu/People/aa.html
thanks for any help ~j
#Aca li {; overflow: hidden; } is the problem.
When you apply the overflow property to any element except a div, the
element collapses in height in IE Mac.
If you need to use the overflow property on the li here (and I'm not
convinced you need to), hide it from IE mac.
Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/
code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
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Re: [WSG][THREAD CLOSED] Customers who won't pay
For the second time THIS THREAD IS CLOSED - please respond off-list if you wish to continue the discussion. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
CLOSED Re: [WSG CORE] [WSG] why oh why
Hi all We've probably hit the nail on the head with this one, no more responses to the list please as it's starting to move towards noise and me-too responses. How to's on handling mime types on servers should be directed to discussion lists for that software (http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=ceinternet.com). Cheers James (core) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE5/Mac Again
On 24 Nov 2004, at 10:57 am, Jonathan T. Sage wrote: On a completely (ok, not completely) unrelated note, it seems that an additional behavior of IE5/Mac is once you trigger this behavior on a file, it dosn't like to give up it's cache of it until IE is restrated, or at least all browser windows are closed and reopens. Don't wanna touch this one with a 10ft pole, just might save some time for someone someday. IE Mac is kind of stubborn in caching CSS files when you load pages through http://... (from a server); when called through fileopen it is not such a problem. http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/#debug Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
