Re: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general question
just in case anybody can't see what Peter is talking about the content.com.au web site has a byline that reads text matters. =) On 24 Jul 2005, at 2:30 PM, Peter Firminger wrote: Now, so that this email isn't a total OT waste of time, a giggle... Take a look at what http://www.content.com.au/ claim to do as a business and then look at the source code of the pages. Not one line of text to be seen! Not even a descriptive page title or any metadata whatsoever. I love it! No comments on this please, it isn't worth discussing. We can just feel superior in our collective wisdom. P _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of csslist Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 5:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general question Well no, what you say now isnt wrong but what you said before certainly was. Before you basically implied the cfm created bad markup and now you say it's the developer which is what it should be. I think you will find that coldfusion makes life harder in respect to web standards compliance Thats not true at all, not even close. But I totally agree that it's all in how the developer does that makes it go :) _ From: wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 2:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general question Er, wwwhat?? If you use the controls provided by MS (validation controls etc), then yes, the code is junk. But who in their right mind uses those anyway? Who has ever used those? That aside, how else does .NET mangle code? I am sorry but that was not a good reply. I have built sites in XHTML STRICT/CSS that uses .NET code behind and VALIDATES 100%. If you are in the habit of dragging and dropping your websites into existence then no, it won’t validate, but then I suspect it won’t validate in any language. At the end of the day it is down to the developer, their lack of knowledge and sloppy coding which makes a language produce sloppy code. Explain to me how that is wrong. W _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of csslist Sent: 23 July 2005 18:27 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general question what? thats a big load of BS! what does using coldfusion have to do with mangling your code? if you do a simple google search you will find out the what mangles code and makes it a lot more work to unmangle is .net and vs, which is what u'd expect when you let m$ write any of your code for you (look at frontpage code and decide if you want m$ to write your code). coldfusion actually makes it much easier to control your layout code because of its tag based syntax and ease of use porting it into your pages. Sorry wayne but that wasnt a good answer ;) most of the server sides are good with compliance except .net, which you obviously can get to work but it requires much more time to unmangle what ms gives you which shouldnt be a suprise to anyone!!! The code I have seen being churned out looks like it has gone through a mangler with huge chunks of white space etc. then you are comparing what you yourseld do to someone using cfm that doesnt know how to do it correctly, those chucks of whitespace are obviously when cfm code is and a simple solution it to wrap code thats in the presentaion view with cfsilentcfm code/cfsilent and that will take away the whitespace. ASP.NET does not produce code that is capable of passing successful validation in any of the SRTICT modes (see Eric Meyer's Picking a http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/bonus/render-mode.html Rendering Mode and W3C's List of valid DTDs you http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html can use in your document for more information on DOCTYPEs). To enforce XHTML compliant code it takes some effort to implement automatic code cleaning (all right, fudging). _ From: wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 12:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general question I think you will find that coldfusion makes life harder in respect to web standards compliance. The code I have seen being churned out looks like it has gone through a mangler with huge chunks of white space etc. In general though, I agree with James, the server side language should not really hinder this, I am developing a couple of sites using ASP.NET and the layout is pure CSS using XHTML strict. The IDE might have more effect on this as some of them play around with your code, but that is easily averted by not using design view and taking the time to configure them properly. W -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn Sent: 23 July 2005 11:39 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Visual Studio/.net general
Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">). Matthew Vanderhorst Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote: Hi all, Ive just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/ Which is a redo of: http://www.broadleaf.com.au/ There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look: http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of you could take a look in other browsers thatd be great. Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image is of more concern to most visitors. Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).
Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote: Hi all, I’ve just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/ Which is a redo of: http://www.broadleaf.com.au/ There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look: http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of you could take a look in other browsers that’d be great. Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com http://www.fueladvance.com Tatham, 22 captures at this URIhttp://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=178496 Font-zoom, among other things, will be a problem in any browser, at any screen resolution, until you let-go her go to do her own thing... I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. ~ Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826) Regards, David Laakso -- David Laakso http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 07/25/2005 and will not return until 08/02/2005. For any web multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy (7779). For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty (6569). Thanks. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 07/25/2005 and will not return until 08/02/2005. For any web multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy (7779). For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty (6569). Thanks. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 07/25/2005 and will not return until 08/02/2005. For any web multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy (7779). For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty (6569). Thanks. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use span/span to
achieve what you want.
div id=hilite
pParagraph one/p
pspan class=normalParagraph two/span/p
pParagraph three/p
/div
Hope that helps
John
Best Regards,
John Yip
Technical Manager
Nano Systems Pty Limited
226 Victoria Street
BEACONSFIELD, NSW 2015
Tel: +61 2 9341 3366
Fax: +61 2 9341 3377
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web-site: http://www.nanosystems.com.au
We are now providing web hosting, domain name registration and web design
services. Please go to http://www.nanohosting.com.au/ for more details.
=
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the following recipient(s):
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
If you are not any of the named addressee mentioned above; you should not
disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this e-mail. Please notify John Yip
immediately by replying to this e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
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Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author
and might not represent those of Nano Systems Pty Limited.
Nano Systems Pty Limited accepts no liability for the content of this email, or
for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information
provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing.
WARNING: Although Nano Systems Pty Limited has taken reasonable precautions to
ensure no viruses are present in this email, Nano Systems Pty Limited cannot
accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email
or attachments.
The original e-mail was sent on July 25, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
style
sheet I have:
body { color: black }
#content {}
#hilite p { color: red }
If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of one
of
them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that paragraph:
normal { color: black }
But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the class
with the div ID, like this:
#hilite .normal { color: black }
What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
won't
work??
Hope Stewart
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Apache DTD problem
Hi Group Does anyone have any experiance with apache web server not displaying web pages with the xhtml strict DTD embedded ? My pages display fine on hosted apache webspace, but on my local apache server it wont display the page unless I take out the DTD declaration, It just displays a blank page with no error message. Is there a configuration setting I have missed somewhere ??? The DTD Im using is ?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"? !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd" html xml:lang="en"Thanks...Peter McCarthy
Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
I'd remove all the » in each list item and replace this with an image on the item bullet points. Also adding a label and/or legend on the search field (and hiding it with CSS if desired) would increase usability. Personally I'd also 'no-repeat' the bg image as it doesn't look as good on pages with a lot of content. I just noticed that there is something disabling the scroll-bars. Which is not good when the browser window is smaller than the content or the font-size is increased. This makes the site hard to use. Rowan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
hi John
I'm afraid this is incorrect.
The quoted CSS selectors were for classes and IDs, without being
element-specific. Thus it makes no difference whether you apply the
class to a span or a div. There's no need for any extra markup. And
it seems to me that the question is one of explaining CSS specificity,
not asking for a change in markup.
Suggest you read Russ' earlier reply closely.
cheers,
matt andrews.
On 25/07/05, John Yip wrote:
When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use span/span to
achieve what you want.
div id=hilite
pParagraph one/p
pspan class=normalParagraph two/span/p
pParagraph three/p
/div
Hope that helps
John
-Original Message-
From: listdad
On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
style
sheet I have:
body { color: black }
#content {}
#hilite p { color: red }
If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of one
of
them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that paragraph:
normal { color: black }
But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the class
with the div ID, like this:
#hilite .normal { color: black }
What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
won't
work??
Hope Stewart
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Apache DTD problem
Peter McCarthy wrote: My pages display fine on hosted apache webspace, but on my local apache server it wont display the page unless I take out the DTD declaration, It just displays a blank page with no error message. Is there a configuration setting I have missed somewhere ??? The DTD Im using is ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8? !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; html xml:lang=en Apache itself shouldn't have a problem. You haven't got PHP running locally as well, by any chance? In that case, it may be that, if you also have PHP's error reporting off and short_tags enabled, that the parser erroneously expects the text after ? to be PHP, fails with an error, and silently stops processing it - in which case you should check your php.ini to set error reporting and disable short tags (see www.php.net/manual for specifics). -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
Matt,
Thanks for pointing that out!
John
Best Regards,
John Yip
Technical Manager
Nano Systems Pty Limited
226 Victoria Street
BEACONSFIELD, NSW 2015
Tel: +61 2 9341 3366
Fax: +61 2 9341 3377
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web-site: http://www.nanosystems.com.au
We are now providing web hosting, domain name registration and web design
services. Please go to http://www.nanohosting.com.au/ for more details.
=
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the following recipient(s):
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
If you are not any of the named addressee mentioned above; you should not
disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this e-mail. Please notify John Yip
immediately by replying to this e-mail if you have received this e-mail by
mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author
and might not represent those of Nano Systems Pty Limited.
Nano Systems Pty Limited accepts no liability for the content of this email, or
for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information
provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing.
WARNING: Although Nano Systems Pty Limited has taken reasonable precautions to
ensure no viruses are present in this email, Nano Systems Pty Limited cannot
accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email
or attachments.
The original e-mail was sent on July 25, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of matt andrews
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 11:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
hi John
I'm afraid this is incorrect.
The quoted CSS selectors were for classes and IDs, without being
element-specific. Thus it makes no difference whether you apply the
class to a span or a div. There's no need for any extra markup. And
it seems to me that the question is one of explaining CSS specificity,
not asking for a change in markup.
Suggest you read Russ' earlier reply closely.
cheers,
matt andrews.
On 25/07/05, John Yip wrote:
When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use span/span to
achieve what you want.
div id=hilite
pParagraph one/p
pspan class=normalParagraph two/span/p
pParagraph three/p
/div
Hope that helps
John
-Original Message-
From: listdad
On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
style
sheet I have:
body { color: black }
#content {}
#hilite p { color: red }
If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of
one
of
them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that
paragraph:
normal { color: black }
But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the
class
with the div ID, like this:
#hilite .normal { color: black }
What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
won't
work??
Hope Stewart
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Firefox top margin
Hi guys,
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.
I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.
No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)
And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?
No live link I'm afraid but the relevant code follows.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
CSS
---
* html, body
{
padding: 0px;
margin: 0px;
}
body
{
font-size: 100.01%;
font-family: Verdana, Arial;
}
#header
{
border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
background: #005CAB;
}
#masthead
{
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
height: 52px;
border-width: 0px;
background: #005CAB url(../images/logohead.gif) no-repeat 0px 0px;
}
#masthead h1
{
padding: 0;
margin: 0.2em 0.2em 0 0;
text-align: right;
color: #fff;
}
HTML
body
div id=oldBrowserNotice class=hide
pThis site will look much better in a browser that supports a
href=http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/;
title=Download a browser that complies with Web standards.web
standards/a, but it is accessible to any
browser or Internet device./p
/div
a name=top/a
div id=header
div id=masthead
h1Australasian Society for HIV Medicine/h1
/div
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin
Webmaster wrote: Hi guys, I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search. How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists. without a link to a live page i can only guess that it's the margin setting on the #masthead h1. dwain -- Dwain Alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning The Spiritual In Art ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users
James Ellis wrote: The box below contains a row of random letters. Most of the letters are coloured white, some are highlighted. Please enter ONLY the RED HIGHLIGHTED characters in the order in which they appear in the box below and press GO. If it's only red or white letters on a black background, it shouldn't be a problem in most cases, but it's less than ideal. I believe red appears grey to red/green colour blind people. It depends on the form of color blindness. For someone with total color blindness, then yes, it would appear gray, but this form is very rare. The most common form is red/green. It that case, depending of the severity, reds and greens do appear to have color, but depending on which hue, telling the difference between the two is often very difficult. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin
Webmaster wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.
I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.
No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)
And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?
Zero all vertical margins and vertical padding.
Change and add:
html, body { font: 100 100.01% Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif; margin: 0; padding: 0; }
p { margin: 0; padding: 0; }
Your font size on body is a safe cross-browser assumption.
Regards,
David Laakso
--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin
On 7/25/05, Webmaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header - #masthead. Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might have done the trick. Margins are always applied to the outside of the element, and padding is applied to the inside. There is an excellent tutorial on CSS positioning at http://www.brainjar.com/ which explains how all the elements and their properties interact - I must have read it 20 times over when I started. Another good tip is to use Firefox or Mozilla with the web developer toolbar, and turn on outline block level elements. This shows you the exact space that each element is occupying. Cheers, K. -- Kay Smoljak new standards blog: http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin
Webmaster wrote: Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header - #masthead. Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might have done the trick. Instead I've changed the margin to 0px and used padding on the h1 instead (which is probably more correct). Thanks muchly. glad i could help. dwain -- Dwain Alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning The Spiritual In Art ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users
Mordechai is totally rightin that it ishue that makes it difficult, but it is only within the specific context of combining the two (either Red/Green or Blue/Green). I had a series of progressively more advanced CB tests when I went to join the Army, and ended up with a rating of 19, with 20 being the worst (on their scale anyway). I can totally see the difference between Red and Green, and in 99.9 percent of the time it makes no difference to anything. The only time I notice it is when someone wants me to look at the pretty red bird sitting in the green tree (unless it moves, I will NEVER find it), or once when I was driving past a field everyone wanted me to stop and take photos and it took me 10 mins to work out it was an apple orchid in full bloom- all I could see was a bunch of boring trees. The reason you can't be an electrician is that if there is a red wire in a bundle containing a lot of green ones, there is little chance you would see it. I can't ever recall a website that caused me grief.If I have come across one, it would have still been usable for me, I just would not see it that same way as the author. dp. On 25/07/05, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Ellis wrote:The box below contains a row of random letters. Most of the lettersare coloured white, some are highlighted. Please enter ONLY the RED HIGHLIGHTED characters in the order in which they appear in the boxbelow and press GO.If it's only red or white letters on a black background, it shouldn't bea problem in most cases, but it's less than ideal. I believe red appears grey to red/green colour blind people.It depends on the form of color blindness. For someone with total colorblindness, then yes, it would appear gray, but this form is very rare. The most common form is red/green. It that case, depending of theseverity, reds and greens do appear to have color, but depending onwhich hue, telling the difference between the two is often very difficult. **The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Matt, Ive fixed the background, and will reupload shortly. Unfortunately all of our workstations are widescreen laptops, so while we run higher res, were still only 900px high. Thanks for noticing. Regarding the CSS errors they are all IE hacks, and besides having to add extra stylesheet documents I dont see a way to make the validator happy. Im really not interested in the whole conditional comments thing because they declarations get split up and things just get confusing. If you know of a similar hack to _property:value; that achieves the same outcome and validates, please let me know and Ill change it. Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 2:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">). Matthew Vanderhorst Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote: Hi all, Ive just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server: http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/ Which is a redo of: http://www.broadleaf.com.au/ There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look: http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of you could take a look in other browsers thatd be great. Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005
Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users
David Pietersen wrote: Mordechai is totally right in that it is hue that makes it difficult, but it is only within the specific context of combining the two (either Red/Green or Blue/Green). I had a series of progressively more advanced CB tests when I went to join the Army, and ended up with a rating of 19, with 20 being the worst (on their scale anyway). I can totally see the difference between Red and Green, and in 99.9 percent of the time it makes no difference to anything. The only time I notice it is when someone wants me to look at the pretty red bird sitting in the green tree (unless it moves, I will NEVER find it), or once when I was driving past a field everyone wanted me to stop and take photos and it took me 10 mins to work out it was an apple orchid in full bloom- all I could see was a bunch of boring trees. The reason you can't be an electrician is that if there is a red wire in a bundle containing a lot of green ones, there is little chance you would see it. I can't ever recall a website that caused me grief. If I have come across one, it would have still been usable for me, I just would not see it that same way as the author. dp. This is a site I always show people to illustrate red/green colour blindness: http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/ I find it extremely difficult to tell the red cells from the green cells. I think it's a good example of how not to use red and green - ie together and in small areas. The site's still usable (although less usable for me than normal sighted people), but if it relied *only* on red and green to signal differences, it would be just able unsuable. Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users
For those that haven't seen it, the OzEmail page that James referred to is http://homesite.service.ozemail.com.au/sidenav.html/help/systemstatus To me the colour difference of the three ticks isn't distinguishable. I see a tick and think, the service is fine. Bad use of both colour and iconography. Any issue should have a cross rather than a tick to indicate a problem. They did add the alt text following my complaints though so at least I had some indication that the glass was half full. Peter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Rowan, Thanks for your feedback. I'd remove all the in each list item and replace this with an image on the item bullet points. Done. Also adding a label and/or legend on the search field (and hiding it with CSS if desired) would increase usability. Done. Personally I'd also 'no-repeat' the bg image as it doesn't look as good on pages with a lot of content. Done. I just noticed that there is something disabling the scroll-bars. Which is not good when the browser window is smaller than the content or the font-size is increased. This makes the site hard to use. In progress. Rowan Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf
Edward, Thanks for your input, however we didnt really consider this a big issue as: most of the target market will be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such people in Australia the image is only downloaded once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column layouts because the image is only downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow and first page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more critical when moving around a site in which case were only about 4k total because the image is loaded through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before the background clogs the connection just that a few seconds later the thing will start to look good as well many larger sites are starting to acknowledge all of these points as well: microsoft.com home page is pushing 140k sxc.hu home page is pushing 107k yahoo.com.au home page is pushing 167k ninemsn.com home page is pushing 136k news.com.au home page is pushing 383k Thanks, Tatham Oddie Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea www.fueladvance.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image is of more concern to most visitors. Edward Clarke ECommerce and Software Consultant TN38 Consulting http://blog.tn38.net Creative Media Centre 17-19 Robertson Street Hastings East Sussex TN34 1HL United Kingdom From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768. There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).
