RE: [WSG] Article: MIME and Content Negotiation
Hello Karl, Interesting series of articles. For this one, there's quite a lot to be said, and fitting it all in in a way the novice can understand in progressive steps it is a bit of a challenge. Just a few thoughts [1] For text/html it is best to define the character encoding in the HTTP header rather than hard code meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 into your pages or templates. I think the question of character encoding declarations is skimped a little. At the W3C we looked at best practises for character encoding declarations. You can find our conclusions at http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/en/all.html#Slide0240 Note that HTTP isn't always the best way to go. There are pros and cons, depending on the usage and the developer. [2] The main thrust of this article seems to be how to use application/text+xml to allow for forward compatability. I wondered whether it might be better to split the article into more general introductions to content negotiation, xml declaration, etc. then discuss use of application/xml+xhtml, and in another article bring everything together with an example PHP application. Just an idea. [3] The XML Declaration is required for character sets other than UTF-8 and UTF-16 s/character sets/character encodings/ For example, utf-8 and utf-16 are both exactly the same character set, though different encodings (see http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/en/slides/Slide0060.html ) [4] You will need to ensure that all other character references are numeric in nature. It would be good to explain the reason you say this. hth RI Richard Ishida Internationalization Lead W3C (World Wide Web Consortium) http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ http://www.w3.org/International/ http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karl Dawson Sent: 16 January 2006 09:21 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Article: MIME and Content Negotiation Hi, Apologies in advance if you see this cross-posted: From the Top is a series of articles that I am publishing to concisely explain how and why to construct a high quality, web-standards compliant head section for a web page. The second article, just released, examines MIME and Content Negotiation. http://www.thatstandardsguy.co.uk/2006/01/16/content-negotiation/ Comments, especially error-spotting and general bravo very welcome, it all helps with my work position. Regards, -- Karl Dawson Crusader for Web Standards and Accessibility http://www.thatstandardsguy.co.uk -- Accessites Team Member - http://www.accessites.org/ -- The power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect. Tim Berners-Lee - W3C Director and inventor of the World Wide Web ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
Hi, I want to include a file to be included into about 10 htm pages, and to save time me updating them individually, i want to use a include file. Using standards, which is the best way to achieve this: 1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm -- 2. !--#include virtual=included.htm -- 3. !--#include file=included.html -- Any body have any experience of this? thanks, Jim -- Kevin (Jim) Callender http://www.jayonline.co.uk/ +44 (0)7888 701 588 +44 (0)1273 818 546 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
Actually, the best way would be to use PHP, and besides, we do not
tend to call them HTM pages, but rather HTML pages. And thus the
filetype after its name is useless.
It could be done as following in PHP:
?php include('included.html');?
Which would not include your comment mark, and I do not know either
if your way is a standard, as I have never heard of it. Besides, I
hate frames, and thus would not suggest your way.
Note: When using PHP, you probably need to name your original file
with .php at the end.
Regards,
Svip, sviip.dk
On 18/01/06, KJ Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I want to include a file to be included into about 10 htm pages, and to
save time me updating them individually, i want to use a include file.
Using standards, which is the best way to achieve this:
1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm --
2. !--#include virtual=included.htm --
3. !--#include file=included.html --
Any body have any experience of this?
thanks,
Jim
--
Kevin (Jim) Callender
http://www.jayonline.co.uk/
+44 (0)7888 701 588
+44 (0)1273 818 546
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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Re: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
Svip wrote:
On 18/01/06, KJ Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I want to include a file to be included into about 10 htm pages, and to
save time me updating them individually, i want to use a include file.
Using standards, which is the best way to achieve this:
1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm --
It could be done as following in PHP:
?php include('included.html');?
Which would not include your comment mark, and I do not know either
if your way is a standard, as I have never heard of it. Besides, I
hate frames, and thus would not suggest your way.
They're called server side includes and they work on Apache. They've
got nothing to do with frames. I don't believe they're in any official
standard, Apache is the only server I know of that implements them like
that (though, I don't know much at all about other servers).
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/howto/ssi.html
--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
They work fine on IIS in windows, as long as yourusing .shtml or .asp as yourfile extension.
As long as the code in the file you are calling is standards compliant,it doesn't make any difference how you call it. The browser will justtreat the code as if it were part of the calling page, just like any other html or any code generated on the server side.
Charlie
http://www.bartlettdesign.co.uk
On 1/18/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Svip wrote: On 18/01/06, KJ Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I want to include a file to be included into about 10 htm pages, and to save time me updating them individually, i want to use a include file. Using standards, which is the best way to achieve this:
1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm -- It could be done as following in PHP: ?php include('included.html');? Which would not include your comment mark, and I do not know either
if your way is a standard, as I have never heard of it. Besides, I hate frames, and thus would not suggest your way.They're called server side includes and they work on Apache.They'vegot nothing to do with frames.I don't believe they're in any official
standard, Apache is the only server I know of that implements them likethat (though, I don't know much at all about other servers).http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/howto/ssi.html
--Lachlan Hunthttp://lachy.id.au/**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
RE: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
Svip Actually, the best way would be to use PHP, If it's only a case of including a piece of static content inside another page, there's really no advantage in using PHP over simple server-side includes. and besides, we do not tend to call them HTM pages, but rather HTML pages. Possibly just a question of preference? Which would not include your comment mark, and I do not know either if your way is a standard, as I have never heard of it. Besides, I hate frames, and thus would not suggest your way. As Lachlan already mentioned, it's nothing to do with frames, but it's an Apache specific functionality. More generally, it's not really important from a web standards point of view what happens server-side...only the final output which is sent to the user agent. i.e. you can use Perl scripts, SSIs, PHP, whatever...as long as the final HTML document that the browser displays adheres to markup/css standards. Note: When using PHP, you probably need to name your original file with .php at the end. Depends on how the server is set up. You can even configure it to process .htm and .html files. On the same note, the default file extension for SSIs is .shtml, which again can be changed in the server's configuration. P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
This thread is really off topic so let's leave it here, but to correct something (sorry Lachlan)... This works on IIS as well, as long as it's a .shtml or .shtm file to tell IIS to parse it for any required processing (like an include) before serving it (unless your host doesn't allow them). ICYDK: IIS is Microsoft's Internet Information Server. I tested all three you mentioned and they all worked on my IIS server (Win2k). 1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm -- 2. !--#include virtual=included.htm -- 3. !--#include file=included.html -- P They're called server side includes and they work on Apache. They've got nothing to do with frames. I don't believe they're in any official standard, Apache is the only server I know of that implements them like that (though, I don't know much at all about other servers). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] .htm include file into another .htm
You wrote: Using standards, which is the best way to achieve this: 1. !--#include virtual=/included.htm -- 2. !--#include virtual=included.htm -- 3. !--#include file=included.html -- I don't think the way you include has anything to do with standards. *What* you include does...that is, whatever you include will be rendered by the server when the page is requested, and delivered to the browser. If the contents of your include are not valid, your page will not be valid. And if you're a purist, you'll want to put the include call flush left, and maintain your indents within the include file, so that the generated code looks pretty too. :) As to which is more correct? It depends on the server. Apache prefers the virtual setting, while file is more typical for IIS. Relative paths aren't enabled in IIS6 by default for security reasons. Both are happy to include things within an include (e.g. include the SSI directive for current year next to the copyright symbol in a footer include) but IIS requires asp code to be included as an asp page, so that it is rendered in the right order. As has been mentioned, in the right environment you could also use php's require or include. But I do agree with the previous poster...the included file isn't (or shouldn't be) an html file. It should be a text snippet of html with or without other server directives. If you include an actual html file complete with header/body elements you'll definitely have problems validating. Most people use .txt, .inc, .ssi, or .asp* as extensions for these files. (*for IIS versions older than 6, because source code would be shown in the browser if you typed in the include address, but not if you used .asp) SSI on Apache: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/howto/ssi.html#whataressi SSI on IIS: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages:Basic_ASP_Syntax Jona Web Services MEA ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] what cms system
hello all, just a quick question, What one of these cms systems should i use? BTW im not a programmer. Drupal Geeklog Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops These are the options I can automatically install with a hosting package. Should i use one of these or try and setup text pattern on my own? -best kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] what cms system
Drupal - ok Geeklog - mhhh Mambo Open Source - mhhh PHP-Nuke- mhhh phpWCMS - mhhh phpWebSite - mhhh Post-Nuke - mhhh Siteframe - mhhh TYPO3 - very good, but needs some special webserver options Xoops - mhhh There is one more, very good and easy to understand: Contenido (http://www.contenido.org/opensourcecms/en/index-b-11-155.html), but there are not very much special tools and add ons. I'm uisng it for my new school website (http://hswasserbank.de/da/cms/front_content.php - under construction yet). Btw: there are some problems with this inline editor, it generates non validating code and you need to use the java editor and clean up the code before saving it. You will see! ;-) Cu D. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what cms system
2006-01-18
Thread
Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net)
2006/1/18, Dietmar Albers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Drupal- okfine Geeklog - mhhhmhmh Mambo Open Source - mhhh mhmh PHP-Nuke- mhhh mhmm phpWCMS - mhhh mhmm dunno phpWebSite- mhhh nah Post-Nuke - mhhh maybe but nah Siteframe - mhhh aAaaa nah TYPO3 - very good, but needs some nope special webserver optionsXoops - mhhh maybe yeahtry - textpattern :) it's easy to use and good. There is one more, very good and easy to understand: Contenido(http://www.contenido.org/opensourcecms/en/index-b-11-155.html), but there are not very much special tools and add ons. I'm uisng it for my new school website(http://hswasserbank.de/da/cms/front_content.php - under construction yet). Btw: there are some problems with this inline editor, it generates non validatingcode and you need to use the java editor and clean up the code before saving it.You will see! ;-)CuD.** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
RE: [WSG] what cms system
try - textpattern :) it's easy to use and good. OK, I think this is not a list to discuss such stuff. Nevertheless: Textpattern is good, very good. But from my view this is a blogger system and not a real cms. This makes it diferent ... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net)Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:59 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] what cms system 2006/1/18, Dietmar Albers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Drupal- ok fine Geeklog - mhhh mhmh Mambo Open Source - mhhh mhmh PHP-Nuke- mhhh mhmm phpWCMS - mhhh mhmm dunno phpWebSite- mhhh nah Post-Nuke - mhhh maybe but nah Siteframe - mhhh aAaaa nah TYPO3 - very good, but needs some nope special webserver optionsXoops - mhhh maybe yeahtry - textpattern :) it's easy to use and good. There is one more, very good and easy to understand: Contenido(http://www.contenido.org/opensourcecms/en/index-b-11-155.html), but there arenot very much special tools and add ons. I'm uisng it for my new school website(http://hswasserbank.de/da/cms/front_content.php - under construction yet). Btw: there are some problems with this inline editor, it generates non validatingcode and you need to use the java editor and clean up the code before saving it.You will see! ;-)CuD.** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
[WSG] H1 Image Replacement and Search Engine Rankings
Hello! I am using an image replace in my CSS for H1 tags in a new template I am developing on my companies intranet site. Our intranet consists of a portal homepage and hundreds of sub sites. The sub sites header would be the graphical H1 tag. Every sub site would have a different header and unique graphical H1. I am wondering if by using that same template on our public site if it will hurt us in search engine rankings? The catch is the graphical H1 tag would be the same on every page since the header is the same throughout the site. Are the header tags weighed equally whether they are H1, H2, H3, etc.? Thanks in advance and best regards, Dorian E. Brewer Web Project Manager/UI Developer SAIC Web Collaboration Services phone: 858.826.4653 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax:858-826-3336
RE: [WSG] what cms system
joomla -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 2:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] what cms system hello all, just a quick question, What one of these cms systems should i use? BTW im not a programmer. Drupal Geeklog Mambo Open Source PHP-Nuke phpWCMS phpWebSite Post-Nuke Siteframe TYPO3 Xoops These are the options I can automatically install with a hosting package. Should i use one of these or try and setup text pattern on my own? -best kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] what cms system
What about Joomla!? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dietmar Albers Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:06 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] what cms system try - textpattern :) it's easy to use and good. OK, I think this is not a list to discuss such stuff. Nevertheless: Textpattern is good, very good. But from my view this is a blogger system and not a real cms. This makes it diferent ... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net) Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] what cms system 2006/1/18, Dietmar Albers [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Drupal- ok fine Geeklog - mhhh mhmh Mambo Open Source - mhhh mhmh PHP-Nuke- mhhh mhmm phpWCMS - mhhh mhmm dunno phpWebSite- mhhh nah Post-Nuke - mhhh maybe but nah Siteframe - mhhh aAaaa nah TYPO3 - very good, but needs some nope special webserver options Xoops - mhhh maybe yeah try - textpattern :) it's easy to use and good. There is one more, very good and easy to understand: Contenido (http://www.contenido.org/opensourcecms/en/index-b-11-155.html), but there are not very much special tools and add ons. I'm uisng it for my new school website (http://hswasserbank.de/da/cms/front_content.php - under construction yet). Btw: there are some problems with this inline editor, it generates non validating code and you need to use the java editor and clean up the code before saving it. You will see! ;-) Cu D. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE7 updates the select box
Microsoft just announced the select box will be updated in IE7. This will be good news to anyone trying complicated form presentation. http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/01/17/514076.aspx Does anyone have a form page that is suffering from conflicts between IE form elements and your CSS presentation? IE7 beta 2 will be released in the not too distant future for developers. We need to begin looking for example pages to test on for finding problems and solutions. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Print stylesheet switcher
Hi Joshua I discussed something like this with Dunstin Diaz, http://www.dustindiaz.com/?id=86paged=2, of the AJAX style sheet switcher fame. He suggested the print style sheets could be handled similarly. For usability sake, I would suggest taking the visitor to a screen that showed them what they are going to get when they print. It would suck to hit print, then walk across the office, wait for the laser printer to get to your page, only to find that it printed something you didn't want. Perhaps the second button would popup a window with the information you want to print and its own print style sheet. Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua Street Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Print stylesheet switcher Hi all, I've got a page that has a print stylesheet, and two elements of important (i.e. the things you'd want to print) content. One is a list of items, whilst the other element is a kind of More information area (linked by XMLHttpRequest if JS is enabled). In the More information bit, there's meant to be a print details button. It was originally going to exist in an iframe, but I wasn't too keen on that idea because it's generally disruptive in ways that AJAX (or, in lieu of that, plain HTML with effectively-utilised anchors) is not. So now I'm trying to print just the contents of that DIV when a user clicks the print icon (using print(), or window.print(), or whatever), but if the user attempts to print the page normally -- that is, go File-Print -- the listing would print, and the details of the currently selected item would not. To achieve this I plan on using two stylesheets: the default print stylesheet will discard the More Information div, whilst the More Information div's print button will call (hopefully) a JavaScript function that will set the print style to one in which the only item displayed is that DIV (well, and a few other bits like H1, but it doesn't matter: the point is it's another stylesheet), and THEN print(). Normal JavaScript (media=screen) switchers are pretty common, but does anyone have suggestions as to how best to go about this one? n.b. I can't just switch the stylesheet when the More Information field is loaded, because even when it is people may still want to print the standard listing, which remains visible at all times. The switching MUST apply just to the print styles, and MUST occur only when the print 'button' is clicked (the button will be inserted into the markup dynamically, so it remains clean for non-JS users). Kind regards, Josh Street ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] content type etc
Lachlan Hunt wrote: That makes no sense whatsoever! You never need to use the meta element for content served over HTTP for *any* browser. IE supports the HTTP headers just fine: I agree with Lachlan, to 90 %. If I recall things correctly, this is how things *should* work. 1. If the server sends a MIME-declaration, that should be used by user agents. This happens almost always. 2. If not (1): If the content is XML-ish, as in XHTML, and has an XML prologue where the encoding is specified, UAs use that. 3. If not (2): If the content is (X)HTML, UAs use the meta-tagg. When loading pages from local files or from an FTP-server, where obviusly no HTTP-headers are sent, this is what the browser should use to get the encoding. Value of declaratons: HTTP-headers XML-prologue Meta-tags But then there is MSIE, a browser that thinks that it actually knows better than the server or HTML-coder, and inspects the actual content and overrides all settings if it feels like it. This behaviour makes it very forgiving when things are set up in the wrong way, but that is *not* a good thing as it may lead to bigger problems further down the road. I have had problems with this behavior when I for a while was forced to use a server that sent CSS-files as text/html, but MSIE forgave that and the admin (himself only using IE) refused to admit that it was wrongly configured. In Firefox the CSS was not used even if the link tag said link type=text/css I've seen other sites where swedish letter fail to show up properly, etc. MSIE-values: It's own judgement HTTP-headers XML-prologue Meta-tags Bottom line: Meta-tags do *not* override http-headers, but MSIE sometimes override them, having inspected the actual content of a file. Lars Gunther ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what cms system
try joomla.org. Joomla is the best open source CMS in the web. i'm working with it for over 1 year and all my clients were happy with it :)On 1/18/06, kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello all,just a quick question,What one of these cms systems should i use?BTW im not a programmer.DrupalGeeklogMambo Open SourcePHP-Nuke phpWCMSphpWebSitePost-NukeSiteframeTYPO3XoopsThese are the options I can automatically install with a hosting package. Should i use one of these or try and setup text pattern on my own?-bestkvnmcwebn**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what cms system
Romeo-Adrian Cioaba wrote: try joomla.org http://joomla.org. Joomla is the best open source CMS in the web. i'm working with it for over 1 year and all my clients were happy with it :) Does it handle standards based templates okay now? It used to insert it's own code in the Mambo days. Have they addressed that, as they were intending too. Can you build Strict DTD tableless designs with it? Do you have any example sites you have done? This discussion should be over at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what cms system - THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CLOSED The mail list does not cover: Discussion of content management/web publishing system issues beyond those directly involved with Web Standards (there is a CMS list for that purpose, Log in and go to Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions and set your preferences to Full CMS list or CMS list in digest mode) http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you want to answer kvnmcwebn, please reply offlist. Please do not continue this thread. If you have a problem with the closing of this thread, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED], do not comment on-list. Thank Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] content type etc
Keryx webb wrote: 3. If not (2): If the content is (X)HTML, UAs use the meta-tagg. When loading pages from local files or from an FTP-server, where obviusly no HTTP-headers are sent, this is what the browser should use to get the encoding. Meta elements are *not* used in XHTML files at all, this only applies to HTML. But this needs to be clarified that XHTML served as text/html *is* HTML, regardless of what the DOCTYPE says. Value of declaratons: HTTP-headers XML-prologue Meta-tags It's not quite as simple as that. It's more like this: for text/html: HTTP headers -- meta element -- content-sniffing for application/xml and */*+xml (excluding text/*) HTTP headers -- XML Declaration -- BOM (UTF-8 or UTF-16 LE/BE) for text/xml HTTP headers -- US-ASCII (XML declaration is ignored) MSIE-values: It's own judgement HTTP-headers XML-prologue Meta-tags Again, it's not quite as simple as that. For text/html, the XML declaration is *not* used at all, IE doesn't even understand it and triggers quirks mode if it's present. IE supports application/xml and text/xml and it will respect the XML declaration, but I'm not sure how standards compliant it's behaviour is with regard to encoding detection in XML. I'm not aware of any case where IE will override the character encoding in the HTTP headers, only the MIME type. Can you provide a demonstration or provide a link to some documentation of the bug? -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] The Evils of innerHTML
Is it? I'm using AHAH (H = HTML, as opposed to XML) to dynamically retrieve some content and innerHTML seems infinitely more sensible: the content being pulled in has an indeterminate number of paragraphs, so short of parsing the incoming document for paragraphs, recreating elements, and setting the text nodes to the contents of the paragraph elements in the first place, using DOM JavaScript seems... not particularly sensible, from a client-side performance perspective (nor from a JS code complexity perspective). innerHTML doesn't work with XHTML, etc,. I know... and it's not a DOM method... but do people consider it okay to use when it seems otherwise impractical to use standard methods? Regards, Josh ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The Evils of innerHTML
Joshua Street said: do people consider it okay to use Supposedly faster than DOM methods, and usually requires less code. Personally, I don't see it as a problem for HTML documents, just need to be mindful that it will break as we move forward towards XHTML. otherwise impractical to use standard methods? When would it be impractical to use standards methods? kind regards Terrence WOod. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The Evils of innerHTML
On 1/19/06, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When would it be impractical to use standards methods? In this case, where I already have server-built markup that I'm perfectly happy with and would have to traverse + rebuild that with DOM methods. It's (seemingly, to someone with not a great deal of JS experience -- me) somewhat redundant, surely. And yup, I'll be serving this one as HTML :) Thanks, Josh Joshua Street said: do people consider it okay to use Supposedly faster than DOM methods, and usually requires less code. Personally, I don't see it as a problem for HTML documents, just need to be mindful that it will break as we move forward towards XHTML. otherwise impractical to use standard methods? kind regards Terrence WOod. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Allowing users to select and sort items
Hi guys, I'm wanting to create an interface similar to the one I've taken a screen shot of here: http://www.staging.renovate.com.au/example.png (this is from My Yahoo! when you go into Change Layout) In my case, I only need to have the ordering on the right-hand box. The left-hand box will contain a list of all possible items that can be added. You can select an item there and shift it over to the right-hand box. Then you can change the order of the items in the right-hand box, or remove something from the box and send it back to the left. I've tried looking on Google for some tutorials on this, but I really have no idea of what to call it so I'm not getting very far. I've tried looking at Yahoo!'s code, but it's so huge and complex that I'm really not sure what parts are relevant to me or how I'd go about adapting them. Can someone please point me in the direction of a few choice resources or provide me with some code snippets for this? I'm pretty sure I've seen something along these lines before, but I just can't find it. Cheers, Seona.
[WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
Dear all, I posted a message a while ago in regards to a _javascript_ fly out menu, received lot's of feedback and links, thanks. I had a look at all the options and found all of them were very bulky in code and very difficult to understand, exceptto the programmer who created it. Also none were very easily customisable or semantically correct, or only had two levels or a fixed number of levels deep. I have since sat down and wrote down some ideas and have programmed some of it, so far it's about 50 lines of _javascript_ and working well with some things still to be implemented and improved on. The reason I am writing to this list is because I am hoping there are some people out there who would like to assist with making this product cross-browser, improve and assist in further development, make sure it stays semantically correct, work some fancy CSS into it and help with fixing up the _javascript_ so it will be stable. I'd like to make this product available to the public for free once finished, so the only thing in it for youwould be the credit you receive for helping out and being part of something great. If this does not appeal to anyone, then I am also willing to actually pay someone to help out with the above and make the product commercially available. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 Web Design and Development SMS Solutions, including developer API Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteendollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollarstwo years! BlackBerryBusiness Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! Seamless Merchant integration
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I had a look at all the options and found all of them were very bulky in code and very difficult to understand, except to the programmer who created it. Also none were very easily customisable or semantically correct, or only had two levels or a fixed number of levels deep. Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I had a look at all the options and found all of them were very bulky in code and very difficult to understand, except to the programmer who created it. Also none were very easily customisable or semantically correct, or only had two levels or a fixed number of levels deep. Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. ULs convey meaning also - perhaps better than OLs. However, there are flyout menus that don't use contiguous lists and they can be good, too. An example would be Opera's menu: http://www.opera.com or our Tab Bar menu: http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/tbm/index.htm Two of the most often recommended commercial menu tools use contiguous lists: 1. http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ 2. http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/index.htm And for basic, single level menus, where enhancements or usability features are not required, there is the infamous Suckerfish menu. http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ All in all, there are lots of poorly designed menu systems (I won't name names either), but there are some good ones. In terms of both standards and accessibility, this article might interest you: http://projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated/index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
Al Sparber said: Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Hi Al, I suspect any menu system that doesn't use the elements recommended for navigation menu's since last century (i.e at least HTML 2.0) could be considered semantically incorrect. I'll leave it to the W3C to explain: HTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_5.html#SEC5.6.4 HTML 4.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-MENU XHTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xhtml2-20050527/mod-list.html kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
From: Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) Al Sparber said: Just out of curiosity, can you explain which menus are sematically incorrect and why? Hi Al, I suspect any menu system that doesn't use the elements recommended for navigation menu's since last century (i.e at least HTML 2.0) could be considered semantically incorrect. That's marvelous information, Terrence :-) I was actually trying to point out that there are some menu systems and techniques that are not semantically incorrect. Gosh I don't like that word. -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...)
This one http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ looks absolutely excellent. Can't judge the code, don't like the price. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) From: Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] [OT] Flyout Menu (Semantically correct plus more ...) I could be completely wrong here, and I am sure you will tell me so if that's the case. But I would think that a menu that has sub menus would need to be displayed as the following for it to be semantically correct; ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a ol li a href=#/a /li /ol /li /ol /li /ol Am I wrong? As for pointing out the ones that aren't, I won't go there. ULs convey meaning also - perhaps better than OLs. However, there are flyout menus that don't use contiguous lists and they can be good, too. An example would be Opera's menu: http://www.opera.com or our Tab Bar menu: http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/tbm/index.htm Two of the most often recommended commercial menu tools use contiguous lists: 1. http://www.brothercake.com/dropdown/ 2. http://projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/index.htm And for basic, single level menus, where enhancements or usability features are not required, there is the infamous Suckerfish menu. http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ All in all, there are lots of poorly designed menu systems (I won't name names either), but there are some good ones. In terms of both standards and accessibility, this article might interest you: http://projectseven.com/tutorials/accessibility/pop_integrated /index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] H1 Image Replacement and Search Engine Rankings
Firstly, you can look into one of the many, many image replacement techniques that are about to allow a graphical title with a textual alternative for text-only user agents such as search engine spiders. I don't know which is currently considered the best so I can't advise you on that, but I'm sure someone else can and will. Secondly, many people are of the opinion that the H1 should be different on each page - that the H1 should reflect the main heading of the page, not the site heading/company name. Makes semantic sense to me, anyway. I believe that H1 elements are weighted more highly in the search engines than h2 or h2 elements, for what's it's worth, but from comments made on this list previously it's somewhat of a matter of conjecture as to whether search engines pay any attention to them at all. From comments made on Matt Cutts' blog I think that at least Google places some weight on them, but probably not anywhere near as much as on other elements such as the page title. That's really OT for this list, however... a forum like SEOChat.com would probably be more helpful to you on matters concerning SEO. Cheers, K. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ On 1/19/06, Brewer, Dorian E. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using an image replace in my CSS for H1 tags in a new template I am developing on my companies' intranet site. Our intranet consists of a portal homepage and hundreds of sub sites. The sub sites header would be the graphical H1 tag. Every sub site would have a different header and unique graphical H1. I am wondering if by using that same template on our public site if it will hurt us in search engine rankings? The catch is the graphical H1 tag would be the same on every page since the header is the same throughout the site. Are the header tags weighed equally whether they are H1, H2, H3, etc.? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Bottom-center button in div
Hi list, I have a little form inside a table (please don't hate me) and in one cell I have a control and a button. I want to center that button as you will see in the pics. The thing is that vertical-align doesn't work, and positioning differs from FF to IE. Another things is that the div takes the whole cell in FF (as I thought it would) but just a line in IE. Also the fieldset around the table is not nicely rendered by IE (this only happens when there's a legend tag) and of course, margins vary. Here are the visual examples: Firefox: http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=m7uyc6 IExplorer: http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=m7uyib In order of importance, I want to fix: .: The button alignment, centered in the bottom of the cell. .: Table margins, as it also happens with not-centered text, it reders almost on the fieldset border. .: It would be nice to fix that ugly fieldset border, but I don't really care. I'd rather have the button alignment fixed. Well, tell me if this things are fixeable or if I should try another way. Don't throw fruits at me for using tables, I'm new to CSS and it's a bit of a nightmare to layout forms with CSS. The ugly table border was just to show the table dimension and it's cells, it will be switched to 0 as soon as I solve this. Thanks in advance, AlvAro ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
