Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
dwain wrote: i agree, put the poem in a div, place the poem inside a p, use br / (br for html4) at the end of each line and a double br / between stanzas (unless you are writing a very long poem, then i'd go for p at every stanza). cheers, dwain Hello Web Standards Group List Readers, This is my first post here, and i am looking forward to more conclusive discussions. Now back on topic. If you ask me, i would say that a double br is a p already. Look at word processing programs. When you wish for a double br you will simply type Enter. If you want a line-break you will mostly do a Shift+Enter. p is a paragraph and a poem can consist of multiple paragraphs, called verses. The discussion might be about small matters, but i feel p looks more like it fits breaking a poem into verses. Another idea might be using an ul list instead of div an wrapping the poems into li list elements, since your chained div elements would result in a list of poems. So far my first thoughts. regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! Any advice or links would be great. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
Thanks for your replies everyone. I finally got both versions working! 2008/6/23 Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 2008/06/23 11:42 (GMT+0100) Steve Green apparently typed: You can still get some old versions from the Mozilla FTP site at http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ It's ludicrous that they have removed some old versions - can they really not afford the disk space? Obviously users should not be installing old versions but developers and testers still need them for testing. We download and store all the English versions but it's not practical to save all the localised versions too. They should still be there, but on http://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ . That is currently redirecting to http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/ which I think is broken behavior. ftp://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases works. -- Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Matthew 7:12 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems'
Does anyone have an example of this behaviour? Not quite sure I follow the issue... Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken McInnes Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems' G'day all, Just a quick 'heads up' on Firefox 3 rendering compared with Firefox 2 rendering. If you 'self-close' a script element in the head, the validators will not pick it up as a problem - is is well formed xml (element is self-closed) and - it is validly placed (correctly placed within the 'head') *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Jens Nedal wrote: [...] If you ask me, i would say that a double br is a p already. Look at word processing programs. When you wish for a double br you will simply type Enter. If you want a line-break you will mostly do a Shift+Enter. Word processing isn't web design, and one has to look beyond the visual when selecting markup since markup convey both visual and non-visual meaning by its presence, or absence. A br doesn't tell anything about the context it's in - it is just a line-break no matter where it is found. How many breaks one add doesn't change that. Visually a br can have some height, line-height or zero height, depending on how one styles it, so one can not rely on it to create a space to add additional meaning either. p is a paragraph and a poem can consist of multiple paragraphs, called verses. The discussion might be about small matters, but i feel p looks more like it fits breaking a poem into verses. One can observe some discussion about how to markup poems and alike on the HTML 5 lists, and so far series of paragraphs with line-breaks (br) as appropriate and spans for additional styling seems to be the only somewhat suitable option. I think that'll stick ... unless they add new, dedicated, elements for poems, which seems unlikely. Since one can style paragraphs, spans and line-breaks as one wants, one can achieve quite acceptable visual presentations with control of white-space etc., without losing or messing up more than one has to for the non-styled and/or non-visual presentation. Wrapping the whole poem in a div (division/section) provides for additional styling. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Paul, Check out these great resources: - http://dev.mobi/ - http://mobilewebbook.com - http://www.w3.org/mobile/ And for testing you can use http://deviceanywhere.com which provides remote access to actual handsets (not emulators). Good Luck. Stew 2008/6/24 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! Any advice or links would be great. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Thanks for your replies everyone, those are good resources. 2008/6/24 Jens Nedal [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems'
script src=yourscript.js type=text/javascript/script works script src=yourscript.js type=text/javascript / doesn't On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have an example of this behaviour? Not quite sure I follow the issue... Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken McInnes Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems' G'day all, Just a quick 'heads up' on Firefox 3 rendering compared with Firefox 2 rendering. If you 'self-close' a script element in the head, the validators will not pick it up as a problem - is is well formed xml (element is self-closed) and - it is validly placed (correctly placed within the 'head') *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems'
I believe this problem has always exited in Firefox. Though, I have no idea why... /me strokes beard. Regards, Svip 2008/6/24 Matijs [EMAIL PROTECTED]: script src=yourscript.js type=text/javascript/script works script src=yourscript.js type=text/javascript / doesn't On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have an example of this behaviour? Not quite sure I follow the issue... Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken McInnes Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Firefox 3 and script tag 'problems' G'day all, Just a quick 'heads up' on Firefox 3 rendering compared with Firefox 2 rendering. If you 'self-close' a script element in the head, the validators will not pick it up as a problem - is is well formed xml (element is self-closed) and - it is validly placed (correctly placed within the 'head') *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Hi Paul, There are fifteen articles here on designing, etc. for Opera Mobile and Opera Mini. http://dev.opera.com/articles/mobile/ Hope this may be of help. Kind regards, Frank Palinkas Opera Software On 6/24/08, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! Any advice or links would be great. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Hi Rob,
Try adding text-align:center; to the body and text-align:left; to the #wrap.
Gonzalo
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Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Hi Rob,
Use *text-align:center *in body
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align:center;
}
--
Cheers to life
Sagnik ::
26four79.com
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Sorry...forgot to complete the code...you have to further align the text
left in the *#wrap *
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
text-align:left;
}
--
Cheers to life
Sagnik ::
26four79.com
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Sagnik Dey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Rob,
Use *text-align:center *in body
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align:center;
}
--
Cheers to life
Sagnik ::
26four79.com
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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--
Cheers to life
Sagnik ::
26four79.com
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Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Hi @Gonzalo - fantastic! Thank you.
Rob
[Moleskin note book where are you?]
2008/6/24 Gonzalo González Mora [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Hi Rob,
Try adding text-align:center; to the body and text-align:left; to the
#wrap.
Gonzalo
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--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
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Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
On 24 Jun 2008, at 15:41, Rob Enslin wrote:
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
text-align: center;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
…that should do it.
All the best,
Jon
-
http://jontangerine.com/
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Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
I assume by IE in this case you mean IE6, not that it's younger brother
doesn't have its share of problems ;) In IE7 centering a column like this
should work.
But what Gonzalo said should work. He just beat me to it :)
If you're interested in trying a different way, have a look at this:
http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/center2.html
Gr.
Matijs
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all, if this is off topic I apologise in advance.
I have a slight issue with IE (surprise surprise) on a page I'm *working*
on. In FF and Safari (PC and Mac) my page is centred (#wrap). In IE it's
not. Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone
has the 'fix' for it?
Code CSS snippet:
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
#wrap {
width: 832px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm
Many thanks in advance,
Rob
--
Rob Enslin
Blog: http://enslin.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin
***
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RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
I just read the article about Vodafone UK and their manipulation of the user-agent header http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/index.htm I don't know if this is old news to you guys but Vodafone is passing mobile internet connections through proxy software called Novarra. Novarra is supposed to re-render the page as 'mobile friendly'. Because it is using the proxy server your handheld CSS file is ignored and a poor version of the site is delivered to the mobile user instead. This also affects websites that have specific content or downloads based on the user agent, say for example MP3's or images with different sizes that are provided for multiple mobile devices due to their differences in compatibility. These sites wont be able to detect the correct user agent as they will be working with the proxy and not the mobile device. Not only that but it also means that SSL connections are not secure through it either! Surely this is heavily against web standards? Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Nedal Sent: 24 June 2008 11:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Rob Enslin wrote: Although not a standards-based question (I think) I wonder if anyone has the 'fix' for it? The page: http://www.servicemanagement.co.uk/new.htm Maybe better to trigger standard mode in browsers first, and add fixes later. The combination of declarations you have now is a somewhat new one - to me at least. An XML declaration has no place above an HTML DTD in an HTML document, and the DTD is incomplete and triggers quirks mode in all browsers... http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html If you really want quirks mode rendering, you may as well delete both these lines... ?xml version=1.0 ? !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The combination of declarations you have now is a somewhat new one - to me at least. An XML declaration has no place above an HTML DTD in an HTML document, and the DTD is incomplete and triggers quirks mode in all browsers... http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html Indeed, the XML declaration has no place here, and XHTML Markup is being used with an HTML 4.01 Transitional (?) Doctype. James -- http://jp29.org/ Semantic Web Page Authoring Validated: HTML/XHTML/XHTML+RDFa ~ CSS ~ RDF/XML - DC Metadata/RSS Feed *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! Hi Paul I include some information -- accompanied by links -- relating to small screen rendering (PDAs, Cell Phones, erc.) on my http://jp29.org/wpointerop.htm page. James -- http://jp29.org/ Semantic Web Authoring Validated: HTML/XHTML/XHTML+RDFa ~ CSS ~ RDF/XML - DC Metadata/RSS Feed *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE6/7 behaviour
Hi @James and @Gunlaug, Points noted on the page declaration issues. Thanks. Rob 2008/6/24 James Pickering [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The combination of declarations you have now is a somewhat new one - to me at least. An XML declaration has no place above an HTML DTD in an HTML document, and the DTD is incomplete and triggers quirks mode in all browsers... http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html Indeed, the XML declaration has no place here, and XHTML Markup is being used with an HTML 4.01 Transitional (?) Doctype. James -- http://jp29.org/ Semantic Web Page Authoring Validated: HTML/XHTML/XHTML+RDFa ~ CSS ~ RDF/XML - DC Metadata/RSS Feed *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Rob Enslin Blog: http://enslin.co.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/robenslin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Warren Dusting is out of the office on a course.
I will be out of the office starting 25/06/2008 and will not return until 27/06/2008. I will respond to your message when I return. If you have any urgent web pages you need published please contact Chris Lassig on 9637 8609 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Notice: This email and any attachments may contain information that is personal, confidential, legally privileged and/or copyright.No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the prior written consent of the copyright owner. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check for and remove viruses. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. You are not authorised to use, communicate or rely on the information contained in this email. Please consider the environment before printing this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] flash navigation - Devils advocate
Using swf object 2.0 embeded swfs as an xhtml sites primary navigation - what are the liabilities? -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] flash navigation - Devils advocate
kevin mcmonagle wrote: Using swf object 2.0 embeded swfs as an xhtml sites primary navigation - what are the liabilities? without flash, no navigation; not crawled/indexed by search engines; not keyboard-accessible in firefox; even in other browsers, not accessible unless you make damn sure your flash itself is accessible; wouldn't work on devices like iPhone and co... more? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: RE: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
I agree, this is not web standards. However remember they could be following web standards with their CSS version. and I don't think it is just in the UK, it is every where for Vodafone. Which not only defies any effort you made to put the thing together for presentation standards as well. I think it is their solution to controlling the user experience on handset side of things when someone accesses mobile web. Why don't they let the community sought it out? It seems now that if standards are to be effective in the mobile access space, there is now another hump to get an open standard. William Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read the article about Vodafone UK and their manipulation of the user-agent header http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/index.htm I don't know if this is old news to you guys but Vodafone is passing mobile internet connections through proxy software called Novarra. Novarra is supposed to re-render the page as 'mobile friendly'. Because it is using the proxy server your handheld CSS file is ignored and a poor version of the site is delivered to the mobile user instead. This also affects websites that have specific content or downloads based on the user agent, say for example MP3's or images with different sizes that are provided for multiple mobile devices due to their differences in compatibility. These sites wont be able to detect the correct user agent as they will be working with the proxy and not the mobile device. Not only that but it also means that SSL connections are not secure through it either! Surely this is heavily against web standards? Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Nedal Sent: 24 June 2008 11:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] flash navigation - Devils advocate
If you want to use a flash based navigation system and you are using swf object then I would use the no script area to include a CSS based navigation system for non-flash users. This way it can be searched by Google etc and be user accessible. i.e. div id=flash_navigation ul id=navigation lia href=link.htmlLink/a/li /ul /div script type=text/javascript // ![CDATA[ var so = new SWFObject(bin/navigation.swf, navigation, 300, 50, 8, #00); so.addParam(scale, noscale); so.addParam(quality, high); so.addParam(wmode, transparent); so.addParam(movie,navigation); so.write(flash_navigation); // ]] /script -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: 25 June 2008 00:36 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] flash navigation - Devils advocate Using swf object 2.0 embeded swfs as an xhtml sites primary navigation - what are the liabilities? -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1514 - Release Date: 23/06/2008 07:17 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Hi, I'm out of the office on Wednesday 25th June. For Whereis related matters contact Belinda Lang, product manager or Asaf Amit, Dev Lead. I will be checking emails periodically, however if it is urgent send me a text. Karen Sensis. Helping you find, buy and sell. www.sensis.com.au - www.yellow.com.au - www.whitepages.com.au - www.citysearch.com.au - www.whereis.com.au - www.tradingpost.com.au Sensis cares for the environment - think before you print. This email and any attachments are intended only for the use of the recipient and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. Sensis Pty Ltd disclaims liability for any errors, omissions, viruses, loss and/or damage arising from using, opening or transmitting this email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, interfere with, disclose, copy or retain this email and you should notify the sender immediately by return email or by contacting Sensis Pty Ltd by telephone on [+61 3 8653 5000] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keywords for text-less site?
Hi Lyn, As mentioned make sure you are using the description meta with appropriate tags. Also make sure that the page title above the menu bar is sufficiently detailed e.g. Artist Name - Image Name c Image replacement on the site title is a good idea, just offset the html text sufficiently that it's not seen in the browser window. Then you have the painting title make sure you use H1s for those and do the image replacement thing as well. And as you said make sure the alt text is accurate. Luke Lynette Smith wrote: I am about to start a site that is going to be basically several image gallery site pages. My client is an artist. I asked for some text for the site but she doesn't want clutter. She asked: how does it work with key words I realise i have not included many. are they necessary these days and if so can they be incorporated to suit search engines without visually disturbing the presentation. She basically wants the website to look the same as the Power Point Presentation which is what I am working from. The problem is that what text there is - site title and subtitle, navigation menu names and individual painting titles- is in a very obscure font Andy that seems to be obsolete. A quick search of the web revealed it was used in several programmes late 80's/early 90's and doesn't seem to be available as a free download. I asked if I could change the font but apparently all her printed matter is in this particular font so she wants to use it on the website. I can use image replacement for the title but I would really like to use a standard font for the rest. I suppose I will have to rely on ALT text. Is there anything else I should consider? Thanks. Lyn Western Web Design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keywords for text-less site?
Thanks Luke and Kerry - it will certainly be different! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS
Hello Sir I have just seen your mail today,it made me know a new thing regarding the topic Paul started. Thanks Regards Priya On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:04 AM, Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just read the article about Vodafone UK and their manipulation of the user-agent header http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/vodafonerant/index.htm I don't know if this is old news to you guys but Vodafone is passing mobile internet connections through proxy software called Novarra. Novarra is supposed to re-render the page as 'mobile friendly'. Because it is using the proxy server your handheld CSS file is ignored and a poor version of the site is delivered to the mobile user instead. This also affects websites that have specific content or downloads based on the user agent, say for example MP3's or images with different sizes that are provided for multiple mobile devices due to their differences in compatibility. These sites wont be able to detect the correct user agent as they will be working with the proxy and not the mobile device. Not only that but it also means that SSL connections are not secure through it either! Surely this is heavily against web standards? Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Nedal Sent: 24 June 2008 11:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Mobile phone support of CSS Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to find a comprehensive list of Mobile phone browsers and CSS support. I currently have a Nokia N70 and as far as I can see it doesn't support CSS at all. But, perhaps with a stylesheet targeting mobile phones it would?! The main reason is, I am trying to decide whether putting the main logo of a site in as an inline image is better than a background, as it would still show up with CSS not supported. But then, how many mobile browsers still don't support CSS whatsoever?! In addition if you are trying to locate which mobile browser from which mobile vendor is coming along, this universal XML File called WURFL might help alot. It contains information about the capabilities and features of many mobile devices and more. http://wurfl.sourceforge.net/ regards, Jens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
