RE: [WSG] Accessible and cross browser online slide system
Lisa, On behalf of other list members, any chance of turning return receipts off? :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Browser loading images issue
Hi there, A bit left field, but I've had this issues *similar* to this before. It sounds like a network or ISP cache issue. Once it was a company proxy not grabbing the latest files from the webserver and serving up old code, the other time, an ISP was caching website data in their proxy to limit load on their webservers. In the 2nd instance, we had to call the ISP and have them manually remove the domain form their cache list. You may want to contact the ISP / hosting company to make sure the site isn't on a cache list. Worth a shot (the site looks fine for me here in New Zealand :) ) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
Unless you're behind a firewall which requires proxy auth. In this case, you'll need to wait until tonight :( http://thingsilearn.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/attention-software-developers-dont-make-assumptions-about-my-internet-connection/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Google chrome... Coming very soon...
Hi Tee, According to product info, it's been in private beta for a while. This is the first public beta (well, to 100 or so countries anyway) Rest assured a Mac ( *Nix ?) version will follow soon :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag
Hi Schalk, Glad you raised this. We built a new section of our site a while ago which required different treatment from our normal text h1's. I looked at the image replacement route and found the approaches kludgy and overwrought. I ended up doing exactly what you said: h1a img src= alt=Page Heading ../h1 Looks fine, and the pages revert back to the standard h1 text style when images are off. You can see the results here: http://tinyurl.com/5b3bwg The image inside the h1 is simple, accessible and effective. Go with your gut :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] H1 and the img tag
Hi Michael, While that is possible, unfortunately the h1 text doesn't display when images are off and css is still in use. This is the issue many image replacement techniques sought to address. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] resetting input boxes
Hi Kevin, It's not clear what you're trying to achieve. Can you give us some more information? Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Forcing a vertical scrollbar in Firefox 3
Hi Jen, Your comment may have come across as a bit more negative than it was intended, however: http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairfax.com.au%2Findex.ac (46 errors) He who lives in a glass house etc, etc... My opinion (and it is just that) is the we need to stop being so critical about trifling matters like this. I applaud Opera for their involvement in web standards and for their commitment to put a resource like this together even when it doesn't seem to offer a direct business benefit for them. Lets keep it positive folks. It won't be pretty if we start assigning value to people by how their sites look through the validator. Happy Friday :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
select custom install and install it to another directory (something like /Mozilla/Firefox3) and the two will run side-by-side. You can do this with Opera too. :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Not if it's your own poem you're putting on your own page. Rubbish - I quote myself all the time! :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Marking Up Poems
Must you Australian's *always* have the last say? ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] firefox 3 beta5
Ack! Anyone else had horrible problems installing FF3? My install crashes every time I open it, so I had to reinstall FF2.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] RE: 2008 NZ Government Web Standards Review
Hi Anthony, I sent a request for a registration on the webstandards wiki 2 days ago - how long does it normally take SSC to grant access? Am I supposed to do something else? Regards, Paul Bennett Web Coder Web Centre Wellington City Council http://www.wellington.govt.nz http://www.wellington.govt.nz/ DDI: 04 801 3284 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] 2008 NZ Government Web Standards Review Hi all The annual review of the New Zealand Government Web Standards is now underway. We are very keen to get your comments and advice, which we'll feed directly into the review process. Let us know what's worked for you and what's caused problems. Are there standards you've struggled with, either in their wording or their practical implementation? Which would you ditch and why? Which would you keep? Are some overly prescriptive, or too vague? If you're not in NZ, we're still very keen to get your thoughts and feedback. The process is that we (the Web Standards Working Group) collate feedback on the standards via the wiki and give it high priority while considering each standard. So it's crucial we get a good amount of feedback from users. You do this by using the link below to go to the standard(s) on which you want to leave feedback, and click the comment tab. http://webstandards.govt.nz/index.php/All_Standards BLOCKED::http://webstandards.govt.nz/index.php/All_Standards You'll need to be registered, so if you haven't already, please send a request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] BLOCKED::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheers Anthony -- Anthony Hawkins Business Analyst State Services Commission DDI: +64 4 495 6718 Fax: +64 4 495 6669 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssc.govt.nz http://www.ssc.govt.nz/ | www.e.govt.nz http://www.e.govt.nz/ | newzealand.govt.nz http://newzealand.govt.nz/ New Zealand's State Services Commission: Leading the state sector to world class performance ... Caution: If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message along with any attachments. Please treat the contents of this message as private and confidential. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matijs Sent: Friday, 16 May 2008 9:22 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Background on body not aligning with tiled background on wrapper DIV Does overflow: hidden on the containing div and making the green bar wider help? On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've managed to put a page together. If you look at the green area in Firefox and IE you will notice a small gap at the right of the green area in IE. If you try to resize the browser by dragging it, you will notice the gap keeps closing then appearing. It's to do with the odd and even number of pixels on the window size when you have a centred background. Anyway, here is the test URL, anyone got an idea of how to solve this without an extra DIV?! http://paulcollinslondon.com/test/ Cheers Paul 2008/5/15 Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for your reply Adam. I can't really put what's I have now due to copyright restrictions, or I would have. I was hoping someone had encountered this before and would know the answer. I'll have to try and set up a dummy page later today when I have more time. Thanks Paul 2008/5/15 Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: can we see an example? Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I've seen this problem before, but can't remember how I solved it. Basically, I have put a centred background that repeats vertically on the body of my page using CSS. The main wrapper div is also centred and has a background sits on top of the Body one, but is only a fixed height Basically, they need to match up where they meet, which is working fine in Firefox, Safari, Opera, etc. The only place it's having an issue is IE6 7. I know what
RE: [WSG] How to make diagonal lines change color?
warning: untested!
You could try this* (won't people almost _always_ be mousing over the page body
though?)
body{background: #000 url(/path/to/image.gif) repeat;}
body:hover{background: #000 url(/path/to/somotherimage.gif) repeat;}
* won't work in IE 6 though
HTH?
Paul
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RE: [WSG] restricting width in the body tag
Hi William, It sounds like you're looking for something like a 'jello layout' (term not mine) You can find out more here: http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/jello.html Basically a jello layout will expand and shrink with the browser window but only to a defined minimum / maximum. HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] long word not wrapping in firefox
Hi there,
you can use a css rule to stop long text breaking table widths:
table tr td {overflow: hidden}
:)
Paul
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt 404! It's happening already! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 news
The IE7 beta worked as a standalone until the first Release Candidate came out. I presume IE8 will do the same. Am trying now, but you need to have a fully patched machine (I'm behind a firewall so our patches are usually pushed out a bit later ) to install it - so be warned that the installer may require security patch updates to complete. Hope to report soon on... :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:26 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet? http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can run standalone... P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 news
2 restarts later I have found the following: * it overwrites IE7 * it doesn't render anything in the tabs! * it has an 'emulate IE7' button (??) Best to hold off for now. If I get it sorted I'll let you all know. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 news
Hi all, Sorry for the quick-fire posts. This just in: * if it doesn’t render when you start up the browser, you can open a new tab and then switch back to the first tab - this seems to 'wake up' the rendering engine * the 'emulate IE7' button allows you to switch between IE7 and IE8 rendering engines, but you do have to restart the browser to do this. It seems that rather than overwriting IE7, it uses the same base chrome but does allow the rendering engine switch. :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] generated source
Hi Jody, I recall having a similar problem. The issue came down (from memory) to the doctype I was using. I was closing elements in xhtml style, while the doctype I was using was html. Firefox was happily removing the extraneous closing elements in the rendered source to fit the doctype. :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] an accessible question: server-side vs client-side validation
+1 on this. I am no l33t h4x0r (by any stretch of the imagination), but even I know I can easily circumvent client-side validation for nefarious purposes in at least the following ways: 1. save the form onto my drive, remove all js and submit the form to your server url with pretty much any data I like in it 2. switch off javascript and mash that submit button Web apps should be built to work first without JS, and then the js behaviour should be layered over the top: http://domscripting.com/blog/display/41 :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] w3c link checker
winrar will open .tar and .gz files on windows: http://www.rarlab.com/ :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CMS and site design
Hi Lyn, In order for them to work correctly, CMS systems usually restrict you to using/designing application specific templates (some even incorporate templating languages). You'll likely need to work with the CMS from the word go. Bear in mind that if you haven't worked with CMS driven sites before, there can be quite a learning curve... :) Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lyn Patterson Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 11:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CMS and site design I have never had to use a CMS and know very little about them. I have a client who wants to update his site himself and my hosting company supports Joomla. My question is: do I design the site in the normal way and then append the CMS or is the site designed within Joomla? Am I restricted in design options? Lyn Patterson Western Web Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Invisible US Passport renewal page
http://www.passports.gov.au 1. Flyout menu? Check 2. Really bad site search? Check. 3. Ugly design? Check. 4. Shocking usability? Check. Must be a government site ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Now instead of opening up inkscape it's just a call to a PHP script like: background-image: url(corner.png.php?fgc=cccbs=1bgc=000bc=fffr=90); So for everytime the css file is called, your script has to create an image? Has this impacted on your sites / servers performance any? Have you considered a caching solution - where the new image is generated then stored static until it needs to change again? Also, there's always things like this using the Dom JavaScript: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately
The blinking was really annoying (and it was everywhere!), as was the very small text. What I liked was the live rendering of the fonts and the ability to select a font and actually be able to type with it, see it at different font sizes etc - very handy (I've seen this on another font site too, but I can't recall the url) The orange scroll bar was a bit of a downer, especially seeing as it was right next to the old handy browser scrollbar In terms of bad flash, weird UI and 'mystery meat navigation', take a look at this... http://matterhorn.co.nz/ I have a feeling this thread is 'weaving' off-topic :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Minimum width help
visibility: hidden does hide the content from screen readers the same as display:none does. And it may get your site banned from search engines if overused: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 What I've done for accesskey code is use this: position: absolute; left: -px; width: 1px; From what I've learnt this allows access to the text to screen readers but regular browsers don't see it. I'm not aware of any SEO issues with this. Our site doesn't seem to have been affected... Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
You could also look at Yahoo's YUI grids css project which is essentially doing the same thing but supported by Yahoo. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ I've had good experiences with it... Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] will Eric Meyers C SS SCULPTOR put me out of job?
Hi, Apart from a cursory look, no. This looks pretty straightforward. Advantages with YUI however are that: - it allows you to nest elements to create 'grids' (think easy cross browser css columns within columns) - it uses one central css file instead of different css files for each layout - you need only change an id / id's in certain elements to affect changes - not load in different stylesheets Paul (yui fanboi) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] vCard File
Hi Joyce, It looks like vCard is a standard, so I guess the user's email client would pick it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCard HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: please avoid forcing people to open pdf in browser!
I, for one am enjoying this discussion :) My 2c: 1) Let the user know it's a PDF *and* what size the PDF is, eg by putting something like (12Kb PDF) beside the link. I'm on dial up at home and it grates my backside when sites don't let me know how big the file is 2) If you can, use Acrobat Pro to autotag your PDF's. It's far from perfect but it's a start 3) Never ever assume a tagged PDF is 'screen reader friendly'. A partially sighted woman gave a (fantastic) presentation at a conference I attended recently where she 'showed' a screen reader opening a PDF and also showed how Acrobat rendered the doc in ZoomText. It was absolutely illegible and the screen reader couldn't make head or tail of it. 4) Push back on your departments to change the workflow so you get raw content and (in a perfect world) time to mark it up. 5) Get a search tool that indexes the raw text of PDF content and lets you point users to the text version if they want it. Again, not perfect but better than nothing. Like most government employees, I've got a lot of work to do in this area, but it really does need to be done :) Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: video
Flash: (google video, youtube, yahoo video, revver, dailymotion, etc etc) http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_1/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_2/ http://www.digital-web.com/articles/the_rise_of_flash_video_part_3/ Yes, you can get (pretty) good quality flash video at a low file size Quicktime gives good quality (at a larger file size) but just isn't as ubiquitous as flash... My 2c anyway *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Content not appearing in IE
Peekaboo bug? http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
Then how will you test for ... IE 5 Mac Like the rest of us - he won't :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
a friend called me on the weekend and said he can't find anything newer than IE5 for OS9 but won't upgrade to OSX because it would be way too slow on his G3. (and he doesn't have the money to buy a new machine) now that is something to think about! Ah, nothing like a good bit of hardware AND software lock-in to make the user smile *ducks* *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions
Hi all, I just have to pitch in here. My dealings with Drupal have been less than wonderful. I find it vague and confusing (kind of like it's trying to be everything to everyone) and when I tried to create a new template I found all sorts of crappy table-based code needed, as well as the need to create bits of files all over the place to get one new template working. In my experience, something like Expression Engine (http://www.expressionengine.com) or wordpress (http://www.wordpress.org) would be a far better bet for a simple CMS and a heck of a lot easier for a non-technical editor to use. Just my 2c anyway Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] RE: Error help
In my experience, browser crashes == bad JavaScript or bad video In Firefox and Opera - the flash video shows the message 'a required component is missing from your system! Click here to add component' (no js errors in either browser) there are a lot of requests to dev.theweddingshow.com.au when the page loads - could this cause an error? In IE7 - I get a warning : 'this website wants to run the following add-on: Windows Media Player Extension ...' (the pink scroll bars are really cheesy looking - I'm guessing that was a client 'must-have' ? :) ) IE6 : I just get a popup to confirm I want to load flash content None of my browsers 'crash' - my advice would be to visit the client and get them to show you exactly what's happening. HTH, Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] New Yorker Redesign
misc:exposeBean var=platform bean=platform/ Never a good look to expose your beans in public... Apart from that it seems to be just url encoding issues - great to see more and more large sites moving to standards based code Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets
One of the best things we did was to follow Doug Bowmans (webstock '06) suggestion to break up stylesheets into logical components and include them in one main file. Our 'styles.css' file now looks like this: - @import url(styles-contentTables.css); @import url(styles-forms.css); @import url(styles-mainnav.css); @import url(styles-popups.css); @import url(styles-secondarynav.css); @import url(styles-textformatting.css); /* generic rules go here */ --- It may take a while, but I promise you you'll thank yourself later on :) It was great advice and we've never regretted it. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets
Hi Chris, Basically if I'm looking to change something in the main nav, I look in mainnav.css, if I'm altering a header for a table in our content area, I look in contentTables.css etc, etc. The main file was 30K (!) before we started trimming it down and breaking up. Yes it's more http connections, but it is *way* easier to find things and easier to maintain. I understand where you're coming from for small css files, but for large sites and applications splitting up the files is (in my opinion) invaluable. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PopUp windows
Anyone remember frames? It's a plan so crazy it just might work! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Williams Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:23 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] PopUp windows This sounds like a perfect application for Ajax. Have the TOC on the left, the actual document on the right... opens as you click through the TOC? Just a thought... -Original Message- From: Bob Schwartz Subject: Re: [WSG] PopUp windows Example would be a page with a sort of table of contents which lists minutes of the past five years board meeting, the user clicks on one, it pops up they read it, print it or whatever, then go to the next. It gives them a chance to browse without leaving the TOC page, *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] background image
Without more info...check the URL of the background image in your CSS? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] background image Hi, Just one more question about this page: http://www.arena7.ie/index2.html When viewing the above page with ie6 pc can you see the diagonal striped bacground pattern? I have ie6 running locally on an old machine thats offline and its not showing up. thanks for all the help -best kvnmcwebn www.mcmonagledesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Javascript to check for Handheld Devices
Hi David,
In my experience, you can't guarantee that a mobile device will be a full
fledged 'browser' (like Opera mini or Safari for the iPhone), so you don't know
if JS will be supported on a handheld device. This may be less likely now, but
is still valid.
Example: About 3 - 4 years ago I had a Palm based Kyocera which did a pretty
good job of rendering HTML (including allowing you to submit form data), but
had no JS or CSS support.
Is there anything wrong with using something like:
@media handheld { /* insert rules here */ }
http://developer.openwave.com/documentation/xhtml_mp_css_reference/css-ref5.html#669571
Also, this may be helpful:
http://developer.openwave.com/documentation/xhtml_mp_css_reference/
Let us know what you think,
Paul
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RE: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
I smell troll ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll :) Tip (to pay for this OT post): Web developer resource list: http://www.listible.com/list/online-tools2C-generators2C-checkers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:26 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice here's me showing my greeny status again... ;) What do they mean when they mean when they say that.. :( -Original Message- From: Paul Bennett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 20 March 2006 10:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Website Directory Structure - Best Practice I smell troll ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] page break when printing
common mistake, often referred to as div-mania (or something along It's famous! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divitis ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Check/Launch: Edentiti.com
On 3/2/06, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... due to Dead Edwards' IE7 script not working Man, when did Dean Edwards die? I know his last post was in December, but I didn't know he was *dead* Maybe MS will make IE7 standards compliant in his honour... ;) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Introduction and first submission
trust the Texans to be loud! ;) Tip - a great resource site: http://www.alvit.de/handbook/ [web developer's handbook] Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:38 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Introduction and first submission Oh I can see an Austin WSG forming already! -Original Message- From: Helmut Granda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 7:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Introduction and first submission Welcome Sharron.. Im in Austin too! (just in case you were wondering J ) ...helmut From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Menard Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:13 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Introduction and first submission Another Texan! Welcome Sharron. I'm here in Austin. - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:06:29 PM Subject: [WSG] Introduction and first submission Pardon a silly question, but is it standard procedure to introduce one's self? I stumbled upon this site several days ago and have been inundated with wonderfully interesting and helpful information ever since. I did read that I need to only use plain text, so I must first figure out how that is done on a email by email basis using Outlook Express. I am Sharron a resident of the state of Texas, USA. I am a fairly newcomer to css, validation etcetera. Regards Sharron ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Plain text v HTML on this list
You mean none of you can see my animated gifs? ;) To set default messages to plain text in Outlook: Tools Options Mail Format - Compose message in: Plain text (drop down box) To set html messages as plain text when replying: Format Plain Text (or Alt+o t for all us keyboard junkies) Paul 'I miss Mozilla mail' Bennett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Worthington Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Plain text v HTML on this list At 09:46 AM 2/22/2006, Nick Gleitzman wrote: ... could list members please use plain text for posting? ... kinder to those who only have dialup connections ... And those of us on slow supposedly broadband wireless links. ... makes the posts more legible. I, for one, tend to skip over posts which are rendered in my mail client in teeny tiny text... I have told my mail client to render the HTML as plain text with no images. This works fine most of the time. Any message I can't read this way is probably not worth reading anyway, particularly on a list about web design. Tom Worthington FACS HLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty LtdABN: 17 088 714 309 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617http://www.tomw.net.au/ Director, ACS Communications Tech Board http://www.acs.org.au/ctb/ Visiting Fellow, ANU Blog: http://www.tomw.net.au/blog/atom.xml ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Confusing the users... In Page Links
Actually Mike, according to a recent Jakob Neilsen study, Jakob Neilsen is right 100% of the time. ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:28 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Confusing the users... In Page Links Herrod, Lisa wrote: This is really interesting article in that it contradicts findings of a recent study we completed just 2 weeks ago. We recently conducted user testing on a site with 22 participants, which is a significant sample (often we test with 8 to 12). The demographic was 18 skilled workers and 4 employers of skilled workers. Balance of gender, spread of age and technical ability (novice to expert). We received very positive feedback from the users about in-page links, so much so that it was reported as a positive attribute of the site. In fact, about 25% commented that they liked these links, without being asked. You usability people, always with the testing! You don't know there's a 99% chance Jakob is always right? :) Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] The dilemma: tabular data with sublevels
You're saying that Add is a definition of Item 1 dtItem 1/dt dda href=?add=123Add/a/dd dda href=?edit=123Edit/a/dd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Form editor that doesn't use tables for layout
On this page: http://www.formarchitect.com/content/index.php It took me about 5 minutes to figure out I had to click 'Create Form' after I'd just clicked 'Start New Form' - that part is not clear or user-friendly Also the google ads under your main tabs are misleading - it looks like they are sub-pages of the correct tab and people like me are likely to hit them by accident thinking they're going to a page *on your site* Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric SmithSent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:36 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] Form editor that doesn't use tables for layout Hello all,I've recently put online a free visual form editor that allows the creation of html forms without using tables for layout and I'd appreciate any suggestions for the editor and the html/css code it generates. My aim is to show that css layout is more than capable of replicating any table based form layout, and my hope is that the editor (always free and publicly available) makes creating and editing the layout quick and easy. The site is http://www.formarchitect.comThanks,Eric
RE: [WSG] New to Standards.
Hi AlvAro, The WSG Resources section is a good place to start: http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/ :) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Server-side includes?
Hi, this discussion has been had before - follow this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg22706.html :) Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Lamberson Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 11:26 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Server-side includes? I suppose I have always very much disliked server-side includes, for no reason I can immediately think up, they just seem like bad form. But if I really think about it, it doesn't matter what goes on as long as it gets to the client in a standards-compliant, semantically correct form. A business partner of mine wants to use includes in our site, and I want to tell him no, but I also can't think of a good reason to give him. My question is: are server-side includes good, bad, or neither in the eyes of standards and semantics? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] New logo scheme was talking points for standards
Trolling? :) Tip:(unrelated to this dead thread) I found this good reference: a list of commonly confused HTML special characters http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~ggbaker/reference/characters/#single Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Trick Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 3:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] New logo scheme was talking points for standards I was just thinking about that and I don't think google.com (or for that matter - anything that company creates) would manage to get more than 1 star. On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 12:00 +1100, Peter Williams wrote: From: Herrod, Lisa Who really pays attention to the badges? Are the badges useful? really? surely an accessibility page on the site is more informative and helpful/useful/clear to those who are interested. We work this way because it's best practice and the right thing to do; it's faster and more efficient... I should point out that I don't use the W3C buttons on any sites, I try always to make sites comply with standards and to be functionally efficient. I wouldn't use any new rating or badge system either unless it was mandated. I think it would be amusing to see all the pretty but broken sites with no stars or 1 star though. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fluid problems
There's a message here: *Before* asking - VALIDATE your code! :) Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Visual Process Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:38 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fluid problems Why does your base.css file have html in it? Adam Morris wrote: I'm having BIG problems trying to get the content of this site to be held within the image 'containers' I've used. Help me, please?! I'm beginning to lose it. Adam http://www.janelehrer.co.uk/live5 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Server Side Includes
SSI is irrelevant to standards, as the code is parsed by the webserver (and the include file placed in the output code) before the browser/client receives it Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 1:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Server Side Includes Richard, I use SSI's for my navigation, and I've never had any problems with validation, or structure. Kind regards, Mario Are there any standards issues around using server side includes? For example a simple include of another file e.g. -- #include file=test.html -- Does it matter that this is making use of code within comments (without wishing to start the debate about IE conditional code in comments again), or is it irrelevant because this will not be seen by the browser? Thanks, Richard Morton QM Consulting Ltd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Server Side Includes
I use XHTML Strict, and if my markup in the SSI file contains a deprecated property then it won't validate. This is an issue with the *code in the include* NOT with server side includes. This list is about standards-compliant code - SSI has no bearing on whether a site is or isn't standards compliant, hence the initial point still stands - SSI is irrelevant to standards compliance. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] firefox ignoring my stylesheet
Nothing that I can see at a cursory glance, but it may help to validate your stylesheet: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcmonagle.biz%2Ftheme%2Fstandards2.csswarning=1profile=css2usermedium=all Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Firefox mystery space bug?
I get the big gap in FF 1.07. Interestingly the page renders without the gap until the main content is filled in, at which time the footer of the page 'jumps' down - creating the gap in question. I can't find anything out of the ordinary in your css, (although some shorthand would go down well) and no known bugs spring to mind. Oddly, the page looks fine in Ie, Opera 8 and even Netscape 6.2!!! My troubleshooting advice would be to remove and replace elements in the main content one at a time until you can see which is triggering the bug.. Let us know how you get on :) Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox mystery space bug? Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Guys and gals, check this out. http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp I get this occasional bug to show in Firefox for Windows. What happens is occasionally Firefox puts a big space at the bottom of my content before just before the footer as if I had a bunch of spaces in there. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes it shows up if I refresh a few times, then after another refresh it disappears. I have also seen it creep on this site too: http://northstartraffic.com/default.asp I can't recreate the problem on either website. I'm using FF 1.5 Beta 2, maybe they fixed the bug? What I did see, was if I visited http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp#, the footer link styling was messed up, and wouldn't fix itself if I reloaded http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp, I had to reload http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com. I then tried http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/, and sure enough, http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/# did the same problem again, and I couldn't fix it at all, not even going to http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/ or http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com would work. Maybe this is all an ASP problem? Any idea? -- - C Montoya rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Chinese food and web standards
and the market share of Linux in general in my own web site stats is next to nil. Wouldn't a LOT of Linux users now be Firefox users too? The OS is not the concern here (although Konqueror is Linux exclusive? ), it's getting things working in (somewhat imperfect) browsers. Ian is expressing a valid commercial concern: trying to give users a consistent, functional experience despite browser inconsistencies. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Chinese food and web standards
but there should be something similar which uses the KDE desktop. Knoppix uses KDE from (rather rusty) memory http://www.Knoppix.org Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] site check: liquid.rdpdesign.com
FOUC? an empty script tag will do it, ie: script type=text/javascript/script (after the styles are imported / included iirc...) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] How do I vertical-align bottom
2 options spring to mind: (1) give the div margin-top to push it to the bottom. This way, even if the above content expands, the div *should* still appear at the bottom of the table cell (2) Rowspan the other two cells and split the third (containing the div) into two rows eg: --- | | | | | | | cell 3 | | | | | | cell 1| cell 2| | | (rowspan = 2) | (rowspan = 2) | | | | | | | | |--- | | | cell 4 | | | |(vert-align: bottom) | | | |(contains div) | --- Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Big Websites that turned Accessible
(1) Trim your posts (2) That reply would be better off-list Tip to 'pay' for this post (ala evolt.org): If, for any reason, you're using word-to-html conversion, here's a handy tool to help you clean up some of that gorgeous WORD 'markup': http://textism.com/wordcleaner/ :) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudios.com
dl id=testimonial dtJoe Coyle, President, www.coylemedical.com/dt ddMr. Cisneros and his team have an extraordinary talent for customer communication, market vision, and web page design./dd dl feel free to bite my head off - I haven't been following this thread closely. There seems to be a tendency lately to use definition lists for way more than I think they're supposed to be used for. In the above example, is this (semantically) equivalent to saying that the definition of 'Joe Coyle, President, www' is 'Mr. Cisneros and his team have an extraordinary talent for customer communication, market vision, and web page design'? Obviously untrue, but I'm open to 'enlightenment' ;) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE6 not shrinking space at pure dom explorer list trouble
Hi Isabel, Firstly your request was a *whole lot* for us list members to take in, hence the lack of responses. Secondly, the list is fine for me in IE6 (Windows XP, Service Pack 2). The list is expanded as the page loads, the script then seems to load which collapses the list. The images below the list then move up into the space, just as they do in FFox. What version of IE are you using? Operating system? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] controlling font size in form text box
1. personally that font size is already borderline readable (and I have good vision) any smaller than 9px (some would say 10px) is getting into the squinty-eyes arena. 2. According to my screen callipers, the font size the designer wants is 7px. There's a reason it looks too small at this size - because it is. Your designer might have to just be happy with 9px IMHO. Paul tip type=Screen Callipers Need to measure things onscreen (to appease designers, for example) then check out this 'Screen Callipers' utility: http://www.iconico.com/caliper/index.aspx (I'm not afflated, just a happy user) /tip ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Web font families
And Times New Roman is the default font by browsers, if I remember correctly? At least IE's default font. I may be wrong (it happened once before ;) ) but I would think that the browser would use the default SYSTEM serif font. Seeing as this (for Windows) is Times New Roman, that's what you'll see on Windows machines... Welcoming feedback from those more 'in the know' Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browsers as copilers (was) Barclays standards redesign
Screenshots of a browser displaying (X)HTML errors in the same manner that a compiler does may get the message across that valid markup is important to those that make the decisions about such things. I'd certainly find it useful. although I foresee browsing with that extension may be a version of hell for many of us - can you imagine seeing the html errors for *every* page you viewed? one might want to take up gardening instead... :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Barclays standards redesign
It doesn't actually validate. (watch wrap) http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barclays.co.uk%2Fpremier%2Fcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlineverbose=1 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barclays.co.uk%2Fcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlineverbose=1 You've got to blame the web development company for this one. We had a similar issue (before I started here) where the organisation I work for demanded s 'standards compliant site redesign'. Unfortunately no one in the team was code savvy enough to police it and in the end we got an old school broken tables in tables in tables layout with a 40Kb stylesheet to semi-control layout. The developers answer to making it 'standards compliant' was to add a DOCTYPE, which none of the code actually fits. Now it's part of my job to try and clean up some of their mess and make it validate. Standards compliance needs to be built into RFP's from the get-go and then enforced by companies who pay the web-dev's. You have been warned ;) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon
*unless the desired effect...* Why fighting the medium? If that *desire effect* is purely visual, then I think there is a problem... Yep, they're called 'Clients' :) Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon
I'd say that people who rely heavily on tables are the ones who obviously do not care about standards. Or they just DON'T KNOW. I work in an organisation where our only other coder hasn't been formally trained, was thrown into intranet work out of necessity and has learnt 'web stuff' by trial and error. Her technical savvy is pretty good but limited and she is quite terrified by change. Getting her to throw away her precious tables for divs is an ongoing challenge, but it's not a case of her 'not caring'. We need to take great care when evangelising standards that it doesn't become a guilt-trip or pseudo-religious debate. Evangelise the benefits, and be patient - not everyone has been exposed to the paradigm-shift that is standards compliant design. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Barclays standards redesign
be glad you're learning about web standards now - it'll make getting a good job a lot easier. The capability of my tutors wasn't much better than yours. Even Zeldman has lamented lately (sorry - googled and couldn't find the entry) that Universities can teach molecular physics but apparently are unable to teach standards-compliant web design. *sigh* ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy
I'm not familiar with it being a 'web standard' not to open a new window for a link. Can someone enlighten me? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] RE: Hot Topic: HTML design
Great topic! I had some experience using xml / xslt earlier this year. I was fiddling with w3schools xslt tutorial which uses client-side xslt transformation and I finally saw what all the xml fuss was about. The content could be marked up meaningfully (according to the actual data) then xslt could lay out the content and css could style it. It was a real 'wow' moment as the xml penny finally dropped - a total separation of content and presentation, with no server-side shenanigans needed to convert the xml content. As soon as there is consistent browser support for client side xslt, we'll be able to deliver pure xml to the client and have it apply style and layout as the / browser chooses. True accessibility and universality. The web equivalent of 'Zen' ;) In my experience it's not the content that's the problem - it's the outlying structure (header, footer, nav, branding) that gets in the way of true 'semanticity' (look Ma - I done made me up a new word!). If we had a way (no, not frames) to semantically separate the nav / branding fluff from the actual core content we would be set. Thoughts welcome, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
not to me - want screenshots? IN IE the homepage actually defaults to http://abc.net.au/default_800.htm and in FF to http://abc.net.au/ I thought all those nasty browser-sniffing days were over -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:46 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/ From: Gary Menzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 9:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/ For some reason - the layout is quite different between IE and Firefox. Looks the same to me in both browsers. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
IE6, Win XP, SP2 Strange - it doesn't redirect for me. Are you using PC or MAC? I have tried IE 6 and IE 5.5 on the PC and in both cases I go to http://www.abc.net.au, not http://abc.net.au/default_800.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
Browser sniffing, resolution sniffing - same difference to me. It leads to fractured site design and multiple pages / scripts doing one thing. I'm on 1280 x 1024 and so wondered whay I got the 800 x 600 page. Turns out my browser fired up at just under 1024 x 768 and I was lumped into the less than 1024 x 768 bracket. I can understand this as it would be a challenge to fit 4 columns across an 800 x 600 screen and still have things readable. What would be a little nicer is if the browser was served a slightly amended stylesheet rather than needing a redirect to a 'special' page (thus giving developers another home page version to maintain.) Ironically, with JavaScript disabled an 800x600 viewport is served the 1024x768 homepage, thus destroying the whole 'lowest common denominator' thing. Terrence, I would reconcile it with a PDA (mobile browser) by understanding that that browser will either strip out all semblance of style and layout from my page (as in the majority of version 1 mobile browsers), or that I MAY be able to serve it a mobile stylesheet (support is not great). What I WOULD NOT do is sniff for mobile devices and create YET ANOTHER home page for them. Standards people, standards - leave the rendering to the device, PLEASE don't go back to the bad old days of creating special pages for this resolution, that resolution, this device, that device. This site has done a good job of that by using standards compliant code, and the seperate homepage is simply a nod to the fact that some users are still using that resolution. Yes, it could have been done better but so could a lot of things I do every day -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Terrence Wood Subject: Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/ it's not browser sniffing it's resolution sniffing, and it it browser independent. Browser sniffing is bad becuase it breaks stuff. Enhancing things based on browser capabilities (in this case how much content fits in the viewport) is OK, most scripting relies on it. The important thing is that the site site works without scripting. Does it matter if it looks the exactly the same in a particular browser compared with another? And if so, how do you reconcile that with say, a pda? kind regards Terrence Wood. On 4 Aug 2005, at 11:53 AM, Paul Bennett wrote: not to me - want screenshots? IN IE the homepage actually defaults to http://abc.net.au/default_800.htm and in FF to http://abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Longhorn Avalon - seismic shift for web standards?
hmmmI smell Troll... You don't work for Microsoft do you David? :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Pietersen Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:41 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Longhorn Avalon - seismic shift for web standards? But, if you're in the business of building web apps that target a specific platform.. :) We all do, really. I am at home, and don't have the research here, but current statistics show that 97.4% of all devices accessing web content are running on Windows. Every one of these machines has IE on it. Really, are we mad to develop for anything else? Discuss. On 7/15/05, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15 Jul 2005, at 9:54 am, Paul Ross wrote: The most important difference between Avalon and the current Windows display architecture is that Avalon is vector based. The vector structure allows scalable graphics (windows, fonts icons), meaning designers can specify shapes and objects onscreen instead of mapping elements using pixels and x/y coordinates. Apple (OS X, Core graphics), recent KDE (using SVG) and recent Gnome already have this build. What does all this mean for the web standards community? Am I reading too much into this by thinking this is a seismic shift in the way we could be building websites in the future? In particular - what are the implications in the XHTML/CSS path versus something like Flash? That will depend on what the browser supports. A webpage is not an application. SVG (and the canvas tag) is the obvious answer here. Firefox nightly builds (and DeerPark dev. preview) already have full SVG support build in. Opera 8: idem (only SVG tiny, atm). Safari and Webkit supports the canvas tag, SVG support (the patches made by the KDE team) has landed recently in the CVS tree, meaning you can already build Webkit with SVG support yourself. Konqueror recent builds should support SVG as well. Internet exploder: no support, except via the Adobe plugin. Maybe in the elusive Longhorn. As far as webstandards goes: no shift. You can use svg as a background-image, or for a series of buttons, or... Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Visited Link Styling
r U k1dd1n?? L1n3-thru l1nx sh0w wikked CSS h4x0r skillz, 'speshly w1f bl4ck bg c0l0ur and gr33n 'MATRIX' c0l0ur linx LOL ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:19 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Visited Link Styling or some people, like me, just find line-through links annoying =) regards Terrence Wood. On 5 Jul 2005, at 12:23 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: As others pointed out, it's more of a usability question ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Will HTML be nicer to PHP than XHTML?
Subject: Re: [WSG] Will HTML be nicer to PHP than XHTML? Personally, I believe this is one of the strong argumens for XHTML. PHP is very sloppy, and when you combine that with another sloppy language, HTML, the mess is tremendos. For small projects and new people it's not much of an issue, but try to maintain a large codebase without it being incredibly buggy. Using XHTML forces you towards good practices, something that is good to do from the begining before you develop those bad habits. I don't know who was objecting to using XHTML, but IMHO it will interfere with you learning of PHP less than HTML because it will force you to know what your doing, which is the point of learning. In PHP's defence, stupid sloppy code can be written in ANY language. (Don't believe me? Head over to http://www.thedailywtf.com and see some real-world examples.) PHP's lack of pickiness (compared to Java for example) is what has allowed it to be accessible to so many people, without requiring the very steep learning curve some other languages require. Good developers write good code. Period. let me repeat again. THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN BAD HTML AND PHP. This thread needs to die.
RE: [WSG] Will HTML be nicer to PHP than XHTML?
ARGH! The logo's - the logo's!!! My EYES! -Original Message- Hi This could prove immensely helpful: http://loadaveragezero.com/vnav/labs/PHP/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] why doesn't this validate with w3c.org and what to do about it
is this CSS inline or included in a file?
If it's included in a file, the w3c validator won't mind at all. If its inline
then the validator might not like it.
No personal experience - just a hunch...
Paul
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:26 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] why doesn't this validate with w3c.org and what to do about it
I have some comments within my CSS to let me or anyone else know what is
controlling what
eg:
/*aligns list in middle of page*/
p.middle{test-align:center}
validation doesn't like this.is there a fix? or should I just ignore???
TIA
--
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] Mystical belief in the power of Web Standards, Usability, and tableless CSS
Yep, he probably is right about that , but he's wrong about something else . My home page uses web standards and it's no monument to great design. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webpagesthatsuck.com%2F... Hah! But theres only *88* errors, so its not that bad ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] LOC new release - standards or looks?
Thanks for the heads up Doug, This is great news and good to see that developers are really picking up on standards compliant design and working that into projects of this scale. The site does not yetvalidate and the encoded ampersands are a big issue in this (in fact the only issue on the front page) One issue I have noticed is that some major developer sites and 'famous' css layout based sites actually don't validate. Is there a trend growing that people are building css based sites for the 'look' and not actuallycaring aboutstandards? Is it becoming about a 'style'? For example, a large site I work onwas redesigned recently (before I arrived) and the company specified that the code must validate. From wading through the muck they produced it appears that all the development company did was add a doctype to each page and for them this was 'valid code'. Worse, the site was built in nested tables (you go through 3 nested tables before hitting the actual page content) and the doctype in no way reflects the code or structure of the site. We are a LONG way from validating and it will be me that cleans up the mess. Has anyoneelse noticed this kind oflip-service being paidto standards by devlopers?
RE: [WSG] CSS Zen Garden piss take, anyone got link?
http://brucelawson.co.uk/garden ? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Background image in the mast head...
from a cursory examination it seesm to position the top left corner of a span
(500px width) 500px to the left of the edge of the visible page. (thus making
the span invisible.)
In what context is it being used?
Paul
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Devendra
Shrikhande
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:22 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Background image in the mast head...
Russ:
As a newbie to CSS, I do not know what this does:
#masthead span { position: absolute; left: -500px; width: 500px; }
Would appreciate your explanation - thanks!
#DSS#
-Original Message-
There are so many ways to do this but I would not use a spacer gif. One way you
could go is:
HTML
div id=masthead
a href=http://mysite.com;spanMy Site/span/a /div
CSS
#masthead { width: 750px; height: 100px; background: blah... } #masthead a {
display: block; width: 750px; height: 100px; } #masthead span {
position: absolute; left: -500px; width: 500px; }
Be warned, this was written quickly without any checking, so be careful
:)
The advantage with this method is that for non-css users they will get your
text. Also, when you go to print it you can use this text version if you need
to, instead of a background image. There is also another advantage. You can set
the a element to any size - it does not need to be the entire size of the
banner - you could have it only the size of a logo within the banner image. So,
in some ways this method gives you a good degree of flexibility.
However, like all methods there are good and bad. Worth looking at a range of
them and deciding what is right for your needs.
Russ
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