Re: [WSG] list heading – best practice?
Is there good reason NOT to use - #UL H1 ... so - ulh1...h1 li.../li /ul rather than what I read here as h1../h1 ul li.. /li /ul Simon Josephson si...@artatwork.com.au On 05/03/2012, at 11:24 AM, Mathew Robertson wrote: Interesting... who said that H? has document scope only? http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-h1-h2-h3-h4-h5-and-h6-elements Show examples of multiple H1's... H? is indeed suitable as a heading to a list. cheers, Mathew Robertson On 3 March 2012 04:38, Hanspeter Kadel h...@supernodegree.com wrote: h? before the list. thats the way i do it, but it doesn't feel right. in most of my cases the UL is more secondary content, like menus etc. i want to keep H1 to H6 for structuring the main content. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] RE: Interviewees needed for research questionnaire on blindness and web design
Dear All, I am currently conducting research on blind web designers and authors. The Web Interfaces Blindness Project (WIBP) intends to survey and interview English speaking people of all ages who are registered blind and design or program webpages, in order to discover: 1. strategies for designing and encoding webpages without vision 2. the problems encountered by blind web designers 3. how blind web designers imagine a webpage 4. how blind web designers encode computer interfaces that can be used by both blind and sighted users 5. blind web designers' understanding of visual programming languages; in particular what they understand by: 5.1. Hyperlinks, Java applets and Flash animation 5.2. The concept of a two-dimensional interface, such as a form 5.3. Designing pages that have to change to fit different sizes of monitors or mobile telephones 6. whether blind web designers who are born blind or become blind very early in their life are different from blind web designers who have become blind later in their life Aims and Objectives of WIBP The aim of this research is to produce a number of case studies that describe non-visual web design and encoding, in order to develop a better understanding of access and development of websites. The objective of this research is to inform a greater understanding of how the mind, both visually and non-visually, understands creating websites and similar two-dimensional interfaces / images used in the design of webpages. This will ultimately inform better designed interfaces and more effective web methodologies. The Researcher WIBP is a solo, un-funded research project by Dr. Simon Hayhoe, visiting academic in the Centre for the Philosophy of Natural and Social Science, London School of Economics Political Science, UK. Alongside his research experience, he has experience of teaching ICT, IT and Computing to children as young as 3 all the way through to adults on IT degree level courses. Simon has a Bachelor of Arts (Hons) in Technical Communication, a Postgraduate Certificate in Education in technology education, and a Master of Education and a Doctor of Philosophy in the education of students who are blind and visually impaired - his postgraduate degrees specialised in art education. He also runs the website http://www.blindnessandarts.com http://www.blindnessandarts.com/ and can be contacted if you wish to ask questions and to return your questionnaire, via the email address: edi...@blindnessandarts.com mailto:edi...@blindnessandarts.com The Extended Questionnaire Could you please answer each question underneath, providing as much detail as possible. Please do not send a separate document. If you wish to save the final document as a PDF I would be very grateful. Alternatively, if this is not possible could you please save it as an RTF document. All information will be kept anonymously, and you will only be referred to using a pseudonym in any subsequent case studies - your identities will also be made suitably ambiguous so as to further preserve anonymity. 1. Could you please provide the following personal details: i)Your Age: Your answer here ii) Are you registered blind in your home country: Your answer here iii)How long ago were you registered blind, and the official term for your form of blindness: Your answer here iv)Before being registered blind, did you have a visual impairment, and how long did you have this impairment: Your answer here v) Did you attend mainstream school, university / college, a school for the blind or another type of school: Your answer here vi)Are you totally blind, or do you have some visual perception. If you are not totally blind, please describe your visual impairment / blindness: Your answer here 2. Could you please provide the following details about your general computing experience - not including your web design experience. i)What originally prompted you to use a computer: Your answer here ii) Could you please describe your non-website design computer usage: Your answer here iii)Could you please describe your first experiences of just using a computer - not including designing web pages, as this will be covered in question 3 -, how long ago it was and where it was (please include whether it was at school or at home, the type of interface you used, your age, whether it was a good or bad experience, the type of programs you used, the type of hardware you used): Your answer here iv)Please describe how you first browsed the Internet / World Wide Web - this does not include any web-design - how long ago it was and where it was: Your answer here v) Could you please describe the types of interface you have used in the past for normal, non-programming usage, from the earliest to the latest. Could you please
Re: [WSG] Progressive Enhancement related article
http://24ways.org/2009/ignorance-is-bliss is that article. Was by Andy Clarke for 24ways. I hope this was the one you were after. On 16 Feb 2010, at 21:29, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: List, I recently came across an article - possibly by Roger Johansson - where in the article the author discussed a web page design that was shown to 2 different people from the same client but in different locations. Based on the browser being used, they each received a different experience but each loved what they saw, not knowing each saw a slightly different experience. It may have been a fictitious scenario. Not sure. Does this ring a bell with anyone? I am going nuts trying to track it back down. It was one of those link-in-an-article-that-was-a-link-from-another-article kinda things and I unfortunately didn't bookmark it. If you know of this article, please forward a link - OFF LIST. Thanks a bunch, if you spend any time on this. I appreciate it. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: [OT] Anyone Wanna Wave?
I (perennial lurker on this list) have 38 (got 30 while I was in hospital having my appendix out). Drop me a line if you'd like one. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: All gone. That was quick :) If I get more invites, I'll send another email :) On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 22:02 +1300, Ghodmode wrote: I have 7 Google Wave invites. If anyone would like one, please email me off-list. I'll send my invites to the first 7 people who ask :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Simon Proctor Cognoscite aliquid novum cotidie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: [OT] Anyone Wanna Wave?
I'll not post more of these but that's sent. Assume and other requests are until I post to say that I've run out. Simon On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Paco Lira paco.l...@gmail.com wrote: I want one please Regards, Paco lira eLearning officer DSC ext.878 On 03/12/2009, at 9:09 PM, Simon Proctor simon.proc...@gmail.com wrote: I (perennial lurker on this list) have 38 (got 30 while I was in hospital having my appendix out). Drop me a line if you'd like one. On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Ghodmode ghodm...@ghodmode.com wrote: All gone. That was quick :) If I get more invites, I'll send another email :) On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 22:02 +1300, Ghodmode wrote: I have 7 Google Wave invites. If anyone would like one, please email me off-list. I'll send my invites to the first 7 people who ask :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Simon Proctor Cognoscite aliquid novum cotidie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Simon Proctor Cognoscite aliquid novum cotidie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] The head of the document
Good question—I’d like to see what some other responses are. Even with the advent of HTML5 I’m still firmly in the XHTML 1.0 Strict camp currently and typically add to the head you illustrated: • meta http-equiv=content-language content= / • link rel=license href= / …along with a few other meta tags for author(s), designer(s), developer(s), description and keywords. Kind regards. —Pascal On 23/07/2009, at 10:14 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I'm just curious to know what other people do these days with the header of their document? What is best practice for: - Good search engine rankings - Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?) - Do we need robots - all anymore? - Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any) - Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore? - Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?! I'll show you an example of how I setup a standard page, please anyone offer what they think is best practice, or perhaps send any useful links: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xmlns:v=urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml xml:lang=en lang=en head meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=utf-8/ meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-us/ titleTITLE/title meta name=ROBOTS content=ALL/ meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no/ meta name=MSSmartTagsPreventParsing content=true/ link rel=stylesheet href=STYLESHEET type=text/css media=all/ /head Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mail: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private. Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
Line-height (leading) is measured from baseline[1] to baseline rather
than from the ‘end’ of a glyph the the ‘tip’ of another. It is
essentially impossible to align ‘perfectly’ the top of say an
uppercase character to a horizontal line above it in CSS because of
this, and because many uppercase glyphs often are ‘shorter’ than
lowercase ascender glyphs (e.g. ‘h’ in ‘The’ will often be taller than
the capital ‘T’; here the ‘h’ reaches the topline)—this occurs notably
in serif typefaces. It is also important to note that optically size
12 Arial may not be the same as another font at size 12, and thus can
also apply for the standard leading when size and leading are set at
1:1.
Finally differing font raster/sub pixel engines will render type
differently (contrast ClearText with Apple’s engine and Apple Advanced
Typography (AAT)).
I think here I would have to echo either Matijs’ comment regarding the
pixel-perfect designs on the web or, alternatively, in aligning the
top of a word or phrase to a horizontal line (say a to ‘hang’ from a
coloured shape above it) just place it up high enough that even if
another font or engine were used it’ll be overlapping with the shape
enough to avoid dropping out of it due to some rendering or alternate
font. For an example of this see the text “17 Ottobre ’09” on http://uxcamp.it/
— it’s Helvetica Neue Bold and switching to Arial still keeps it
looking spiffy. (:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_%28typography%29
Kind regards.
—Pascal
On 03/07/2009, at 8:56 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:
At 7/1/2009 07:19 PM, Ben Lau wrote:
This is what I'm trying to achieve: http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
So there'll be a div with padding top and bottom of 20px, and with
text inside.
This doesn't look to me like a line-height topic at all. If you
increase the line-height, the lines of text within each paragraph
will separate from one another, and that isn't what your gif
illustrates. It looks more like a (default) line-height of 1.
Instead, this looks like a simple matter of applying padding
margins to the wrapper div its paragraphs.
Now, if we're to take your gif literally, it looks like you've got
17px between the two paragraphs. That implies:
div
{
padding-top: 20px;
padding-bottom: 3px;
}
div p
{
margin-bottom: 17px;
}
div
20px
psome text/p
17px
psome more text/p
17px
3px
/div
Regards,
Paul
__
Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com
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---
Simon Pascal Klein
Graphic Web Designer
Web: http://klepas.org
E-mail: kle...@klepas.org
Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas
This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private.
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[WSG] Span within a li
hi guys I am stumped with this - I have a menu list that is generated out of a database; the menu has several items and each has a 'class' attribute that reflects the item id, thus: --- div id=left div class=moduletablemain_er ul class=menu li id=current class=active item1 /li li class=item361 a href=/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=222Itemid=361 span• Who Are We/span /a /li li class=item111 a href=/index.php?option=com_sectionexview=categoryid=1Itemid=111 spanRecent News/span /a /li li class=item359 /li etc etc Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to style... JUST the li class of item361 (the reference '361' is to a document and remains static)... the span of the li to • Who Are We? Just the span within the li class item361. Is it possible? Note... only the 'item361'; not item111 or item359, nor 'current'. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Simon a...@work *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Span within a li
Thanks Christian, Mike, Adam and Ross
:((
As you suggested Mike, overly simplistic... Still no 'uptake'
Here is the URL, look to the left and you will notice a menu item with
a bullet (hardcoded) - Who Are We; this is item. Check it out with
firebug' etc
In advance thanks!!!
http://www.edmundrice.net/index.php
Simon
PS: I ended up with a string something like this... (ineffectual)
#left ul li item361 a:link span
Simon Josephson
...
a...@work
On 12/05/2009, at 1:16 AM, Adam Martin wrote:
li.item361 span {
background: red;
}
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Simon Josephson
Sent: 11 May 2009 15:33
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Span within a li
hi guys
I am stumped with this - I have a menu list that is generated out of a
database; the menu has several items and each has a 'class' attribute
that reflects the item id, thus:
---
div id=left
div class=moduletablemain_er
ul class=menu
li id=current class=active item1
/li
li class=item361
a href=/index.php?
option=com_contentview=articleid=222Itemid=361
span. Who Are We/span
/a
/li
li class=item111
a href=/index.php?
option=com_sectionexview=categoryid=1Itemid=111
spanRecent News/span
/a
/li
li class=item359
/li
etc etc
Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to style... JUST the li class
of item361 (the reference '361' is to a document and remains
static)... the span of the li to . Who Are We?
Just the span within the li class item361. Is it possible?
Note... only the 'item361'; not item111 or item359, nor 'current'.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Simon
a...@work
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Re: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs
That results in an image sitting inside a PDF; the text is rendered inaccessible, and the file size of the document will be increased substantially. —Pascal On 31/03/2009, at 1:08 AM, Darren Lovelock wrote: Do a image screenshot using print screen and then convert that to PDF? Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of agerasimc...@unioncentral.com Sent: 30 March 2009 14:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: li...@webstandardsgroup.org; wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs I have a problem converting my web pages, which are CSS driven into PDFs (users usually do Right Click - convert page to PDF) - they need to send those pages for client approval in the PDF format. The pages in PDF display very poorly, not all CSS images are displayed, CSS formatting is completely off... Does anybody have any idea, what's the best approach to tame the CSS pages and convert them to PDF? Thank you! Anya V. Gerasimchuk Web Designer, IT - Web Shared Services UNIFI Information Technology agerasimc...@unioncentral.com (513) 595 -2391 anthony.hawk...@ssc.govt.nz Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 02/01/2009 02:52 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] WCAG2.0 summary Hi there - WebAim just released a good summarised guide to WCAG2, a lot easier for the newbie to get their head around. http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mail: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private. Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Boyd Sent: 16 March 2009 10:28 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:14 PM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: I agree with this bloke - it's starting to look like blatant advertising. www.humdingerdesigns.co.uk and this response is brought to you by BarCampCanberra2T BarCampCanberra2T Twice the Fun, Twice the Learning, Twice the Excitement! http://barcamp.org/BarCampCanberra2 Cheers, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://uxaustralia.com.au -- UX Australia Conference Canberra 2009 http://uxbookclub.org -- connect, read, discuss http://govux.org -- the government user experience forum http://resilientnationaustralia.org Resilient Nation Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Unsubscribe
Please unsubscribe me, the website says my email is not found so I cannot do it myself. - si...@interlopers.net From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Simon Sent: 16 March 2009 10:48 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Boyd Sent: 16 March 2009 10:28 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:14 PM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: I agree with this bloke - it's starting to look like blatant advertising. www.humdingerdesigns.co.uk and this response is brought to you by BarCampCanberra2T BarCampCanberra2T Twice the Fun, Twice the Learning, Twice the Excitement! http://barcamp.org/BarCampCanberra2 Cheers, Andrew -- --- Andrew Boyd http://uxaustralia.com.au -- UX Australia Conference Canberra 2009 http://uxbookclub.org -- connect, read, discuss http://govux.org -- the government user experience forum http://resilientnationaustralia.org Resilient Nation Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3937 (20090314) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3937 (20090314) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
Sorry—got carried away. (: On 30/01/2009, at 4:43 PM, William Donovan wrote: Hang on, did I miss something or is this completely OT (off topic). Bible's, Gutenberg, print type faces... Web Standards...? William Donovan mobile: 0403 263 284 --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
On 29/01/2009, at 11:39 PM, James Jeffery wrote: Guys thanks for the response. I hit the sac last night at nearly 6am and was very pissed off, with myself for failing the job. I'm all good now though because at the end of the day it wasn't really my doing. The guy that passed me the work does front-end development all day, I thought it was strange why he passed on the work to me. Now I see why ... because it was a bloody mess. I’d expect clean, accessible, and semantic code from a front-end developer. Bah—sorry to hear you had such a negative experience. I think we all end up taking a bite from the sour end of the pie at some point in our profession, and, in the end I guess the best thing to do is consider it an experience worth not repeating and learning from it. Regards. —Pascal Anyway. I can't say who it is, but it's a cable/sat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
On 30/01/2009, at 4:16 AM, Fred Ballard wrote: I've read that the Gutenberg bible is formatted without spaces. It's interesting that they aren't essential to reading. I believe this is due to the inherent markings of the tops and bottoms of the glyphs, particularly the lowercase glyphs. B42s were all set with a very Germanic textura blackletter which feature strong diamond- shaped markings that allowed the eye to follow the line of these markings. Further, back then with the cost of paper and vellum it was entirely uneconomical and even more expensive to print (or write) with what we today consider an ample leading (line-height). In addition Gutenberg let his hyphens lie in the margins (what we know as hanging punctuation) further adding to the blocky, well-defined lines. In fact, the reason why serif typefaces are easier to read (at least when printed—it is true that at small sizes on screen and with poor hinting serif typefaces quickly become more difficult to read); it is the serifs or ‘little feet’ on glyphs that allow our eye to dance in saccades along a line by telling us where that glyph starts and ends in the vertical space. Add all the characters up, particularly the lowercase ones, and the eye will follow all the serifs forming a concise line. I've also read that it's all uniformly blocked out with so many characters to a line, so many lines to a column, two columns to a page, and ending with a full page. In a sense, one of first books (it isn't actually the first) ever printed was the most perfectly formatted ever. Indeed. Gutenberg’s first bible (actually a Gutenberg Bible consists of two volumes, each 1280-odd pages: Old Testament, and part of the New Testament with the second continuing where the first let off—they were divided again because of economical reasons), and the rest of the series that followed (180 in total I believe), were divided into two columns, spanning mostly 42 lines. Kind regards. —Pascal On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org wrote: On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of updating. Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe, they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not much else. Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey. :-) From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :( [...] --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: Users who deliberately disable JavaScript
Comments inline: On 27/01/2009, at 7:33 AM, Jessica Enders wrote: Hi Pascal In the JavaScript/Accessibility/form validation discussion you mention the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript. I'm always curious just how many people this is. Do you, or does anyone else, have any statistics on this? Is there a reason you describe it as a growing number? Any information greatly appreciated. No, I don’t have access to any statistics on the matter. I want to clarify that my comment does not address the growing number of new Internet users who most likely will have JavaScript turned on or the majority of users in a holistic sense. I don’t think the users that disable JS are a majority but I definitely think they are on the rise as many security experts are recommending JS to be disabled by default. Whether or not JS-disabled users are a statistic worth noting should not be in question here. I think Anthony Ziebell puts it best: “JavaScript should be implemented only to supplement / layer existing functionality. Your site should operate just fine without it… There are always exceptions to this rule however you shouldn’t let JavaScript dictate how you code.” Kind regards. —Pascal Cheers Jessica Enders Principal Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 On 19/01/2009, at 11:14 PM, Simon Pascal Klein wrote: If there were further communication between the user and server between submission of the form that would entail a page reload then a screen user shouldn’t have an issue, whereas if JavaScript would run in the background and inject errors or suggestions as it thinks the user makes them (e.g. password complexity recommendations, username not available messages) numerous accessibility issues arise. The only solution that came to mind was having a generic message (such as ‘please fill out all marked (*) fields’ or the like) that could be hidden using CSS and through JavaScript ‘unhidden’ when an error appears (though it could only be a generic error). As dandy as these automatic feedback and error messages are through JavaScript maybe a full submission and subsequent page reload is best—after all it’s impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won’t see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Just my 0.2¢. On 19/01/2009, at 5:52 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Isn't 'aria-required' a non-standard attribute? Sadly, yes. But there is some hope: it is possible that ARIA will be accepted in HTML5 and there is an initiative to provide validation for (X)HTML+ARIA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Sep/0381.html Validator.nu already has experimental support for HTML5+ARIA, and I believe (did not check) http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/ provides the same for document type HTML5. There is also a possibility to add ARIA attributes with Javascript. All the options are controversial, but that's how it is for now :( Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Helpful Criticism and Browser test plz
Text resizing breaks the layout quickly and there are a number of textual elements within images—why not make these plain text instead to be styled with CSS? (Notably the phone number and the ‘based in east Lanc?shire’—I can’t actually properly decipher the blurred text in the image—graphical texts should be avoided where possible.) The little flash module only has an animation in the first 20-odd seconds of its instance and then remains static (or maybe I need to wait a little longer for it to get going again). Could this just be text that’s animated with some JavaScript (if animation is at all required)? In smaller browser windows this part of website would be ‘below the fold’ anyway and out of sight before scrolling. —Pascal On 22/01/2009, at 2:00 AM, Dave Westell wrote: Hi all, Just got my latest project to validate XHTML Strict, and just wanted any helpful criticism and also to see if any problems with any Browsers and Operating Systems . http://www.clock-this.co.uk/ Thanks in advance.. Dave.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
I thought a bit more about this and I realised perhaps a better option would be to display the JS-injected messages and errors that a screen reader could not read but upon submission of the form, reload the page and provide all the messages and errors again (the form could not be completed anyway due to the errors; where else would to send the user to?). This way users browsing with an accessibility aid like a screen reader would not see the injected errors which are a nifty feature but still be presented with them upon submission of the form and the page reload. Why I didn’t think of this earlier is beyond me. D’oh. —Pascal On 20/01/2009, at 12:57 PM, james.duc...@gmail.com wrote: after all it's impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won't see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Agreed, and any decent validation is going to be done server-side validation anyway, so you're going to have to (or at least you should) implement the server-side responses in any case. - James -- James Ducker Web Developer http://www.studioj.net.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript and Accessibility
If there were further communication between the user and server between submission of the form that would entail a page reload then a screen user shouldn’t have an issue, whereas if JavaScript would run in the background and inject errors or suggestions as it thinks the user makes them (e.g. password complexity recommendations, username not available messages) numerous accessibility issues arise. The only solution that came to mind was having a generic message (such as ‘please fill out all marked (*) fields’ or the like) that could be hidden using CSS and through JavaScript ‘unhidden’ when an error appears (though it could only be a generic error). As dandy as these automatic feedback and error messages are through JavaScript maybe a full submission and subsequent page reload is best—after all it’s impossible to tell those users using an accessibility aid like a screen reader from those who do not, and hey, the growing number of users who purposefully disable JavaScript won’t see the glitzy JavaScript injected errors anyway. Just my 0.2¢. On 19/01/2009, at 5:52 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Isn't 'aria-required' a non-standard attribute? Sadly, yes. But there is some hope: it is possible that ARIA will be accepted in HTML5 and there is an initiative to provide validation for (X)HTML+ARIA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Sep/0381.html Validator.nu already has experimental support for HTML5+ARIA, and I believe (did not check) http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/ provides the same for document type HTML5. There is also a possibility to add ARIA attributes with Javascript. All the options are controversial, but that's how it is for now :( Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image with borders due to Anchor tag
Isn't it because the img tag when within an anchor tag will by default
show a blue border around it - behaviour from the days before css?
Separate behaviour from the anchor tag itself - a special instance of
the img tag itself.
So if you're wondering why - well - because of history? (I never thought
working with the web would make me feel old... ;-) )
Simon M
The question, better explained is, using the above code, why do you
have to apply the CSS attribute, border: none;, to the image tag
within the anchor tag? Rather than using text-decoration: none;, to
the anchor tag, like you would use it to apply to an anchor tag with
text in it to remove the underline.
Observe...
a href=link.html style=text-decoration: none;text is now not
underlined/a
a href=link.htmltext is now underlined/a
As the anchor tag automatically applies the blue, underlined part of
the text, when surrounding an image tag it puts the underline on the
image, but in a blue border form around the image. Why use border:
none; to the image rather than text-decoration: none; to the anchor tag?
If you have a page that needs all the links to have no underline or
border (if an image is a link as well), why would want to have to
have to declarations for that, rather than one? You could have:
a
{
text-decoration: none;
}
a img
{
border: none;
}
but that takes a little more coding. Not that much more but still...
you could have just used the a { text-decoration: none; }.
--
Brett P.
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Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
On 11/01/2009, at 4:08 PM, James Ducker wrote: Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. The TAFE students I tutor in Sydney are being taught XHTML, XML, CSS table-free layouts, and so on, so not a bad start. The JavaScript courses look like they could use some improvement (see below). I think the biggest shortcoming though is that students are being taught the skills with no context, i.e. they are not taught how to further perpetuate their skills, which is an important shortcoming in an industry that evolves so rapidly. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. One of the most consistent problems I encounter when tutoring students is that a toe-dip into JavaScript simply doesn't work. JS is a fully-fledged OO scripting language, and as such in order to teach it properly a grassroots introduction to OO concepts is necessary. The course seems to have improved in the last year or so, in that they are teaching more current applications of JS, but that's about it. Web development courses should definitely include JS, but for the media-rich courses, such as the new media arts design courses that dabble in the web as a presentation medium, I think the bare basics of JS should suffice—sorry; that’s what I meant. (: —Pascal - James On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.org wrote: On 10/01/2009, at 6:50 AM, Matt Morgan-May wrote: Hi, Excuse me for jumping in here, especially (in this case) as a Flash partisan. But I fail to see how this kind of project can be anything other than a good thing overall. What I don't understand is why people are instantly critical of projects that are actually attempting to increase access to new technology. I've heard a constant drumbeat of don't use Flash: it's inaccessible in the years I've been involved in the field. But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? There are lots of us out there working on improving the accessibility of both existing and future content authored in Flash. There are many arguments to be made for HTML -- I made loads of them while working for W3C, all of which I would stand by today -- but it is not all things to all people. The fact is that many educators have found that they can use Flash to teach their students effectively. I'm not an educator by profession, but my wife is, and she prefers Flash over HTML/CSS/JS to develop her courseware. If you were to tell her she's wrong, especially before seeing what kind of work she does, I think you'd probably find yourself dodging a couple shelves' worth of education texts. Telling a professional their tools are wrong is not the most endearing of approaches. In my opinion, the best one can do is to learn what they're doing, and offer ways to make that output more efficient, more inclusive, and easier to produce. Teachers aren't usually web developers, and we shouldn't want them to be. So I'm all for companies taking on the technical problems so teachers can be teachers, and so on. Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. It's not uncommon that many secondary and tertiary IT and web media courses are grossly outdated. From my experience this is mostly attributed to the teacher's education in the field which they received when they did their tertiary education in order to teach, and have since not remained up to date with new developments and sadly even standards. Money and a requirement to regularly attend courses to keep educators up to date help in this regard but nothing beats personal interest—the high school IT teacher that in their own time is actively involved in his or her field will be more likely to teach his students about the latest relevant and exciting bleeding edge technologies. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. Just my 2¢. Thanks for raising this topic. (: —Pascal Thanks, M Accessibility Engineer, Adobe Christie Mason said: Exactly right. I've sadly watched Flash take over eLearning and still haven't figured out the attraction, except that it offers the control of PPT while appearing to be rich.There's only a very few types of web sites that still use Flash
Re: # Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT
On 10/01/2009, at 6:50 AM, Matt Morgan-May wrote: Hi, Excuse me for jumping in here, especially (in this case) as a Flash partisan. But I fail to see how this kind of project can be anything other than a good thing overall. What I don't understand is why people are instantly critical of projects that are actually attempting to increase access to new technology. I've heard a constant drumbeat of don't use Flash: it's inaccessible in the years I've been involved in the field. But if we don't have people pushing that envelope, doesn't that make that statement self-fulfilling prophecy? There are lots of us out there working on improving the accessibility of both existing and future content authored in Flash. There are many arguments to be made for HTML -- I made loads of them while working for W3C, all of which I would stand by today -- but it is not all things to all people. The fact is that many educators have found that they can use Flash to teach their students effectively. I'm not an educator by profession, but my wife is, and she prefers Flash over HTML/CSS/JS to develop her courseware. If you were to tell her she's wrong, especially before seeing what kind of work she does, I think you'd probably find yourself dodging a couple shelves' worth of education texts. Telling a professional their tools are wrong is not the most endearing of approaches. In my opinion, the best one can do is to learn what they're doing, and offer ways to make that output more efficient, more inclusive, and easier to produce. Teachers aren't usually web developers, and we shouldn't want them to be. So I'm all for companies taking on the technical problems so teachers can be teachers, and so on. Ultimately teachers should aim to teach the skills that are required of students entering the industry. It’s not uncommon that many secondary and tertiary IT and web media courses are grossly outdated. From my experience this is mostly attributed to the teacher’s education in the field which they received when they did their tertiary education in order to teach, and have since not remained up to date with new developments and sadly even standards. Money and a requirement to regularly attend courses to keep educators up to date help in this regard but nothing beats personal interest—the high school IT teacher that in their own time is actively involved in his or her field will be more likely to teach his students about the latest relevant and exciting bleeding edge technologies. On a side note, my personal opinion on web media courses focusing on rich web content is that they should still entail the bare basics of HTML, XHTML, and CSS, with a toe-dip into JavaScript. These technologies are so fundamental to the web, and given their role as standards they should be part of any web-related courses. Just my 2¢. Thanks for raising this topic. (: —Pascal Thanks, M Accessibility Engineer, Adobe Christie Mason said: Exactly right. I've sadly watched Flash take over eLearning and still haven't figured out the attraction, except that it offers the control of PPT while appearing to be rich.There's only a very few types of web sites that still use Flash for delivering primary content - media sites, those that focus more on look at me instead of being a resource to their site guests, and eLearning. Since, supposedly, eLearning is about offering web based resources for learning it just doesn't make sense to me that it has ignored all the ways the web has supported, continues to support, learning w/o using Flash. Flash on the web is like cooking with garlic. A little adds depth, a lot is inedible. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?
I think this comes down more to which font rasterisation engine a
system is using. I don’t think Safari on Windows for example has full
access to AAT and Quartz and thus will render type using ClearType and
GDI on Windows. Add Firefox into the mix which uses Cairo and you’ll
get different results again, which are easily visible (for example)
when comparing how Firefox using Cairo and ATSUI renders fonts that
don’t have their own small-capitals and thus must downsize capitals to
a small-cap scale (traditionally the x-height of the face) and how
Safari handles the same thing. (Safari, I find does this better—a good
font to test this with is Georgia which sadly lacks proper real small-
capitals.)
To fix layout issues with content running outside your boxes use
absolute, fixed and relative positioning instead of floats, eg:
div#container {
position: relative;
width: 100%;
}
div.content_primary {
width: 60%;
left: 0;
}
div.content_secondary {
width: 40%;
left: 60%;
}
This way you can also quickly switch your columns around without
touching your markup; add absolute positioning to the column that
appears first in the markup (likely to be content_primary) and swap
the left property indent.
Hope any of this helps.
—Pascal
On 08/01/2009, at 4:36 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote:
Hi experts,
I'm running into big rendering differences between Google Chrome and
Safari 3.1/PC. They are said to render pages the same, given that
they're using the same Webkit engine.
The differences seem to be mainly due to the different font rendering.
Safari's fonts are way smaller, hence my boxes are smaller and shift
up,
breaking the layout.
Anyone knows why this is so? Is there a workaround, i.e. a Safari-only
CSS hack?
Cheers,
Jens
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Re: [WSG] pos- relative or margin?
Using top and left properties in positioning is fine; using rel, pos+, and absolute positioning for columns can actually be better than using floats in that objects that expand past the width of a floated object will not disrupt the layout of the page by bumping nearby floats down the normal flow of the document. —Pascal On 08/01/2009, at 9:26 PM, Naveen Bhaskar wrote: Hi, I want to know which is the best method. I have seen a page where all the divs are positioned with position relative and with top , bottom attributes instead of margin.. Is this a good method? There is no browser compatibility issues while using this where as when using margin properties IE has probelms.. Pls advice. thanks and regards Naveen Bhaskar Bangalore Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs
Using too much markup just for styling purposes isn’t recommended. I find that using adjacent sibling and child selectors usually helps avoid a large case of multi-div-itis. —Pascal On 07/01/2009, at 4:35 PM, Ben Lau wrote: Hi all, I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to complicated background designs, I'm forced to use additional wrapper DIVs just to achieve the look. Are there any major downfall in doing so apart from increasing page size? I'd like to be able to convince our designer to simplify the design... Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fonts
On 17/12/2008, at 3:43 PM, Conyers, Dwayne wrote:
Marvin Hunkin [startrekc...@gmail.com] ink wired:
why and how can i display the other fonts on my site?
Are you using font face=foo tags in your HTML code? Then, those
fonts should appear *unless* they are not on your (or the people
surfing to your web site) system.
If you want to embed fonts that others may not have, Google terms
like “free fonts” or “downloadable fonts” (check to make sure they
can be embedded) and then embed the font with code like this:
STYLE TYPE=text/css
--!
@font-face {
font-family: Arial;
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
src:url(http://www.foobar.com/EOTfileName.eot);
}
--
/STYLE
For which one needs WEFT, Windows and licensing permissions to embed
the font. I’d suggest you link additional fonts if they are central to
your design and are not web core fonts as linked OTF files—no
converting to EOT necessary. Note EOT is currently only supported by
IE whilst OTF linking is supported in latest Safari as well as Firefox
(and Opera IIRC) devel. versions. There are a number of great free
fonts available for linking listed at http://www.webfonts.info/wiki/index.php?title=Fonts_available_for_%40font-face_embedding
Ultimately, you’re best off sticking to the web core fonts. To blow
some life back into them and make them look a bit merrier than the
boring reputation many give them play with styling like font-variant
for small-caps, letter-spacing, font-style for the italic and various
sizes and colours. (:
—Pascal
Hope that helps.
--
ariston men hudor
http://blog.dwacon.com
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Simon Pascal Klein
Concept designer
(w) http://klepas.org
(e) kle...@klepas.org
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Re: [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Moinmoin, I’m not out of the office and will be here to read all the ‘out of the office’ messages all over the festive season. :-) —Pascal On 13/12/2008, at 1:08 AM, Griffiths, Lynne wrote: I am out of the office until Monday 12 January 2009. For any communication and media issues please contact Amanda Forman - T 02 6102 6013, M 0434 079590 or email amanda.for...@nwc.gov.au. --- This email from the National Water Commission (NWC), and any attachments to it, contain information that is confidential and may also be the subject of legal professional or other privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, copy, disseminate, disclose to others or take action in reliance of, any material contained within this email. If you have received this email in error, please let the NWC know by reply email to the sender informing them of the mistake and delete all copies from your computer system. For the purposes of the Spam Act 2003, this email is authorised by the NWC www.nwc.gov.au --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] icons for navigation - was positioning help needed
On 12/12/2008, at 2:33 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote: ebiz wrote Your problem is the sidebar, you need to make the position of it relative, then the footer will pop underneath it. To keep the sidebar liquid just float it to the right and use em's for the height, width etc. Thats a good solution. Thanks for the feedback everyone, especially the great linky links. Im taking a close look at css blueprint grid and the css gala examples. BTW whats the wsg consensus about using icons in nav menus? I recently read an article that basically said if you take the text away most icons in nav menus become useless. Also they are quite time consuming to create I think they can be good for portal sites but thats about it. For application interfaces, icons can aid experienced users who begin to associate functions and sections of the application with the visual metaphors of the icons, rather than the text. Regarding text, I would recommend for main navigational items to accompany icons with text, if icons are desired. There are a number of good freely available icon sets and resources out there, e.g. the Tango Desktop Project’s icons, which are currently being assembled into a resource library under the Public Domain. :) —Pascal *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) kle...@klepas.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fw: The Great Firewall of Australia
Stuff like this always draws the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork—which isn’t too say it’s a negative thing—but for once I think I have tamer views on the subject. As stupid as some people seem to be, I don’t think Stephen Conroy is stupid enough to not get it by now. In fact he probably already understood that his clean feed scheme was not going to work properly— difficult to implement, risky to maintain, and have a number of adverse side effects—but as things go in politics he was too far in to admit he was wrong. Too much tax payer money had already been spent on the idea which had been promised to the Australian people under a Labour government at election time. In the end it’s a pathetic political episode: it would essentially be the political end of Mr. Conroy if he admits he was wrong now, so he’s going to try and play this out, although the chances of it ending well for him are dwindling daily. In the meantime we get to suffer from his egoism and possibly (let’s hope it doesn’t come to it) the clean feed. My 2 cents. (: Have an awesome week all. —Pascal On 30/11/2008, at 11:36 PM, Andrew R wrote: And adding my 2 cents worth… This is part of the grand conspiracy. The panic about porn / bomb instructions on the web knee jerk is a smoke screen. What the government wants to do is control how it’s citizen access media and hence ideas. They love the traditional mass media because it’s easy to control and run by cooperation that have a vested interest keeping the old paradigms. They hate the web, email, etc because it’s hard to control and hence subvert how ideas spread. Goverements all over the place have been trying to do this for a long time. It’s stupid, won’t work and is going to cost us millions. What will happen is lots of folks will subscript to OS encrypted tunnelling services. The outcome will be lots of encrypted web traffic which will be a lot worse if you’re trying to track the activities of bomb makers and paedophiles. And it is going to chew up money that would be more productively spend improving the speed of the infrastructure (and not slowing it down). This is nearly a dumb that idea that Mr Keating had of sell exclusive rights to provide Australian net access to Microsoft! Andrew Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com Search now *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** --- Simon Pascal Klein Concept designer (w) http://klepas.org (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
Breton Thanks for your time in explaining the intricacies and intrigues of Object Oriented Programming. Very enlightening. Thanks greatly Simon artatwork.com.au On 24/10/2008, at 11:58 AM, Breton Slivka wrote: On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A 'superset' of ECMA3 which is not fully compliant. Right... I think you're confused. Maybe you you're thinking of the w3c dom- Which is a seperate standard and topic from javascript/ecmascript. All implementations of javascript in all the current browsers are fully Ecmascript edition 3 compliant, so far as I'm aware. If you have additional information about specific incompatibilities, I would be extremely interested. On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Anthony Ziebell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Brett, JavaScript is commonly referred to as 'object-orientated' but really, JavaScript is 'prototype-based'. They do have different meanings, but have some similarities... A language's method of inheritence is orthogonal to (has nothing to do with) whether the language is object oriented. Inheritance is an OO idea, so the fact that javascript has inheritence of any kind pretty well cements that it at least has object oriented capabilities. But it goes further than that, because all values in javascript inherit from Object, and can be treated as objects, making Javascript a fully object oriented language. It is not an imperative language with OO features tacked on, like php5. Javascript is OO from the ground up. The tricky thing here, and the part that I think is confusing you, is that most languages described as OOP languages include an entity called Class that javascript doesn't appear to have. You might draw from this the conclusion that if a language doesn't have class, then it is not OOP. Truth: class is just a random concept that quite a lot of language designers happened to fixate on. Class is not central to OOP. Object Orientation is *not* a computer science concept with solid foundations in mathematics and philosophy. There is *no* formal definition for what OOP is. There is no universally agreed on method for determining whether something is or is not OOP. OOP was just an idea from some guy named Alan Kay, that he used as the basis for his language SmallTalk. He designed SmallTalk that way because it felt right, and he thought that it saved time. The concept was useful enough that it became popular. This makes OOP more of a meme than a scientific theory, as such. read more here: http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/byte_aug81/design_principles_behind_smalltalk.html A later object oriented programming language called SELF showed that classes were not necessarily the most important concept about Object orientation. The most useful aspect of object orientation historically, has been the bundling of code with the data it operates on. Inheritence has recently been shown to be somewhat less important and useful than it's been seen to be in the past. (deep inheritence is bad practice in JAVA, for instance, in favor of interfaces). Alan Kay once expressed surprise at how fixated on classes many later programming languages have become, as he saw his concept of message passing to be the most important aspect of the design. Javascript is a language which is well documented to be a mashup between 3 languages. It's a combination between SELF (Object orientation, and prototype based inheretence), with scheme (functions as first class values), dressed up with JAVA like syntax. (curly braces) Javascript contains all the important and useful parts of the object orientation meme. Since javascript everything in javascript is an object- including functions, you can bundle code along with data into a single object, storing functions as values on the object. Objects delegate missing properties and methods to their prototypes, providing a scheme for direct instance-to-instance inheritence which mimmicks message passing. So there you have it. Whether javascript is OOP is kind of a matter of taste, rather than definition (Because there is no definition). It's a bit like pondering whether Piet Mondrian was an artist, because he didn't paint pictures of real things. Of course he is, but it's confusing because Mondrian was unlike any other artist anyone had ever seen. In the same way, Javascript is an OO language unlike any other OOP language most people have seen. (most people haven't seen SELF, or newtonscript, or io, or REBOL) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org
RE: [WSG] CSS editors
Last time I used a Mac I edited with Text Wrangler http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/download.html It did the job _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gicela Morales Sent: 20 October 2008 10:51 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CSS editors Hi Everyone, I've just migrated form PC to a new macbook :-) but was wondering about the best xhtml/css editors for macs around that people can recommend? I can see that BBEdit is still around ( I used to use this back in the 90's) and CSSedit seem to have some good reviews. Any preferences? Kind regards, Gicela *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Flash replace Javascript in Future?
I don't know of the appropriateness here (etiquette) being a newbie... though Adobe's agenda is to make Flash an entire environment within which to work... AKA - Air It is very neat and you may find of interest the Flex developer website found here... http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/ Adobe is hoping it becomes ubiquitous to the web Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 17/10/2008, at 12:27 AM, Charles Ling wrote: Hi Guys/Gals, I would like to get some opinion from you all, that would Flash 10 or ++ will replace JavaScript in the future? According to this blog : http://ajaxian.com/archives/flash-10-and-the-bad-news-for-javascript-interaction . I found that alot of media website started to replace Javascript to play their audio/video and of course Flash required to be install as third party plugin and had to be updated (which is annoying). Did you guys/ gals use alot of flash in your past projects that you were working with? Cheers, Charles. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Learning Javascript properly
Hi all, I really want to get stuck in and learn Javascript properly, and by this I mean not filling my page with onclick and sending hrefs to #. But instead abstracting it all into the .js file and keeping my markup clean. I've followed the book by Jeremy Keith called DOM Scripting which teaches just that but it only goes so far. Everywhere else I look seems to have all the old school techniques which I want to shy away from. Does anyone have any resources? Thanks so much Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Learning Javascript properly
Thanks for all your replies, I'm getting stuck into jQuery and it seems pretty good! Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Breton Slivka Sent: 18 September 2008 22:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Learning Javascript properly jQuery is really good because, unlike some other frameworks, it doesn't lock you into its little world. You're still coding in javascript, and jQuery is just a really handy set of functions to help you out with just the really frustrating parts. It's really important to use a framework nowadays because of the vast gulf there is in the behavior between the different browsers. Frameworks eliminate hours of debugging by presenting just a single simple interface to do many common tasks, that someone else has already debugged to work cross browser. In my opinion, it should be difficult to argue AGAINST using a framework, simply because frameworks save so much time - and time is money! What are the arguments against using a framework? If there's something about frameworks' that just rubs your colleagues the wrong way, perhaps look into base2.js, IE7.js and IE8.js by Dean Edwards. They're basically implementations of the standard w3c dom interfaces, such that if a browser doesn't support the standard correctly, his framework fills in the gap. With that, there's no visible signs of a framework, just a consistant cross browser dom api. That's the basic principle anyway. I haven't tried it, myself, so I can't tell you how well it really works. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] RE: WSG Digest
Actually, we do have the UK Disability discrimination Act (1995) and its code of practice. The relevant quotes from this 175-page document are: * 2.2 (p7): The Act makes it unlawful for a service provider to discriminate against a disabled person by refusing to provide any service which it provides to members of the public. * 4.7 (p39): From 1st October 1999 a service provider has to take reasonable steps to change a practice which makes it unreasonably difficult for disabled people to make use of its services. * 2.13 - 2.17 (p11-13): What services are affected by the Act? An airline company provides a flight reservation and booking service to the public on its website. This is a provision of a service and is subject to the act. * 5.23 (p71): For people with visual impairments, the range of auxiliary aids or services which it might be reasonable to provide to ensure that services are accessible might include accessible websites. * 5.26 (p68): For people with hearing disabilities, the range of auxiliary aids or services which it might be reasonable to provide to ensure that services are accessible might include accessible websites. http://www.accessiblesites.co.uk/accessibility_legislation.php -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 August 2008 15:14 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:22:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites In Australia, websites are covered by Disability Discrimination legislation, Wow! Idon't think ours are (UK) Keep it quiet, It does'nt take much here to start a lawsuit. I think most webmaster/ess would follow the Disability code of practice anyway. And, if there is anything about you -- you would want your site accessable by all., after all you all work hard enough on them. Kate - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Spiegel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 5:07 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites Hi Tee In Australia, websites are covered by Disability Discrimination legislation, although there has only been one successful suit to date. Bruce Maguire was awarded damages of $20,000 against SOCOG in 2000: full details here: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/decisions/comdec/2000/DD000120.htm Note that the target was not by any measure a 'small business'. HREOC provides advisory notes http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.html Elizabeth Spiegel Web editing 0409 986 158 GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 www.spiegelweb.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Friday, 15 August 2008 12:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Shopping cart - who does what Under British law, can individual who brings a case under the DDA and the lawyer seek monetary compensation? Couple months ago a handful of ADA lawsuits handled by a same lawyer. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/13/carollloyd.DTLh w=disability+lawsuitsn=001sc=1000 If lawyer and plaintiff can seek monetary compensation, I honestly hope no ADA/DDA law ever applies to website. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * From: Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:25:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites kate wrote: In Australia, websites are covered by Disability Discrimination legislation, Wow! Idon't think ours are (UK) Yes, they are. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __
RE: [WSG] transparency, png IE6 ??
I've used superslieight to great success. You see a moment of grey border as the page loads in IE6 but after that it renders fine. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew McGrath Sent: 10 June 2008 13:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] transparency, png IE6 ?? theres no clean solution that i'm aware of...but this is a common issue, so i'm certain there is plenty of tips and tricks out there to help you get around the problem you are faced with. http://24ways.org/2007/supersleight-transparent-png-in-ie6 the above link provides some /interesting/ info, i don't claim to know a lot about this topic in particular however this page essentially summarized what i already knew...so maybe it will help. Good luck! 2008/6/10 Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: HI people, I have tried to not use transparency for years as it is not working IE6 properly. I have not a situation where i need it and there is no way out, I have tried some tricks and there are some that works half way to the full solution. There is a solution with a js file called htc somethnig where i get the transparency working but only in one of the images i need them to appear. Does anyone have a clever full functional solution for this transparency crap to make work ? I have grey hair already but its starting to fall of soon... Michael in Athens *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] XHTML 1.1 CSS3 - Is it worth using right now?
Hi, Does anyone use XHTML 1.1 and does it provide any benefits? I've read up on what the differences are but I was under the belief IE won't support it without a particular hack. Is there a reason why not many sites adopt this Doctype and is there any point using right now if your site is 1.0 Strict? Secondly, I see a lot of sites that speak about CSS3 and using parts of that now in the browsers that support it. I get along fine with CSS 2 but haven't really adopted or tried any of the newer more advanced CSS3 techniques. I haven't really had to. Is it also worth learning this now or can I expect IE to hold back this standard for a long time yet? Thanks for your opinions Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi, I know that the align attribute such as div align=center is not allowed in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives are for a dynamic environment such as a forum? For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the images will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and use margin: 5px auto as an example. What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I've resorted to creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=center as that is the only way I can think of. Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and deprecated code? I'd be interested in your opinions Cheers Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Best way to hide form legends?
Hi,
I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and
legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal
users. Now I can easily hide it with display: none; but I understand this is
hidden from certain screenreaders as well, which well render the benefit of
it being there pointless as they are the type of user I am implementing it
for.
I have tried:
.hidden {
position: absolute;
left:0px;
top:-500px;
width:1px;
height:1px;
overflow:hidden;
}
And:
.hidden {
position: absolute;
left: -999em;
width: 990em;
}
But it just sits there, am I missing something obvious and has anyone had
any joy with something similar?
Thanks very much
Simon
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RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?
I can't believe I didn't try that. Works a treat, thanks! Simon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lord Armitage Sent: 30 April 2008 20:46 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends? Hy simon, Legends a very nasty to style and position you should wrap the legend text in a span (or some other inline! element) to be able to position it. -- cheers Milan *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends?
By that I meant someone who sees and interacts with the website in the most common way. Seeing the page, viewing it with CSS images on, using a mouse etc. The user most people design their sites for. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Lapcewich Sent: 30 April 2008 22:02 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Best way to hide form legends? I've got a search box and login area that I want to use a fieldset and legend on for accessibility but I don't want to show the legend to normal users. I'm sorry but what is a normal user? Dennis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Software to read aloud web pages (targetted at literacy issues not vision issues)
Rebecca Cox wrote: Someone's asked me about software that will read aloud from a web page, in a user friendly way Hi Rebecca - I don't know if you're aware of the Voice facility in Opera 9 - you have to enable Voice Controlled browsing in the preferences which means you download a 10.5 MB file, but then you just highlight text you want to have read out, hold Scroll Lock and press V and it is read out. Sadly it is in an American accent - but you can choose the gender of the voice and modify it a little. You're probably looking for something a little more advanced than this - but thought I'd point it out as it is so quick and easy! HTH, Simon simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Where did I come from?
Hi, I am on a webpage...how do I know what page the browser was previously showing. I think Javascript History object is the ticket...but STRICT mode in Firefox seems to tell me that I don't have permission to access it. NOTE: I don't want to use the History object to go back or forward...I just want to know what the previous page was...so I can create a button to go back to it... Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: Where did I come from?
Hi, Are we agreed that the back button *should* take one to the previous page? I use an internal web application (it's a helpdesk issue tracking system...not developed by me) where they developers have hijacked/messed with that back button functionality so I cannot use the back button to get back where I was before I entered the internal web apprather the internal web app page re-renders itself. The developers of the internal web app are not keen on un-hijacking/un-messing with the back button processing. A compromise...I thought...would be a button in the page saying, for example Return (or leave or abandon or exit or something TBA)...that would take the user back to the page they were on *before* the entered the internal web app. To accomplish the compromise the web app will need to know/determine what the prior page to the web app was... Cheers, Simon On Jan 18, 2008 2:24 PM, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am on a webpage...how do I know what page the browser was previously showing. I think Javascript History object is the ticket...but STRICT mode in Firefox seems to tell me that I don't have permission to access it. NOTE: I don't want to use the History object to go back or forward...I just want to know what the previous page was...so I can create a button to go back to it... Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Cannot go back
Hi, I use an internal web application that someone else coded. Once I have navigated to URL for this web app (from whenever I was) I can never go back to where I came from...which is very frustrating. The developers of the web app say that the back button processing has been overridden and it is not possible to go back to the place the user was before they entered the web app. Is there no standard way to prevent the back button from really going back...but provide some mechanism (a different button/link on the page) to allow the user to go back to where they were before the app started? Oh..and Happy New Year. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] File comparison tool for Dreamweaver CS3
Hi there, What file comparison tool would you recommend for Dreamweaver CS3? http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Dreamweaver/9.0/help.html?content=WSc78c5058ca073340dcda9110b1f693f21-7edc.htmlstates: Before you start, you must install a third-party file comparison tool on your system. For more information on file comparison tools, use a web search engine such as Google Search to search for file comparison or diff tools. Dreamweaver works with most third-party tools. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Strange CSS problem
Michael Horowitz wrote: Interesting as Andrew pointed out the issue does not occur is IE 6. I have it only occur in IE 7 which would make it a new IE bug. The frustrating part of typepad is I cannot delete the original css declaration only overwrite it with the new one. I'm also new to learning firebug, how does it show you this is occurring. I've mainly found it useful for javascript debugging. I didn't realise that typepad gave those constraints. That is frustrating! If you open Firebug in a new window and select the html in the left hand window, and css in the right hand window, then any html element that you click on in the left hand window will have all relevant (and over-ridden) css style rules for that element displayed in the right hand window. It's indispensable! I think somehow IE7 is recognising an over-ridden style as still being relevant once another link in the page has been clicked - I assumed it was the rule on line 228 - but that is just a guess. I hope that's of some help. Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] preserve whitespace
Hi, !-- Happy Holidays one and all! -- I have an HTML page and I want to (well my client wants me to) preserve leading blanks in the value of a table data cell. I could use pre /pre around the data. Or I could use an nbsp; for each leading blank. Any others? What is the standard way to do it? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Less than and greater than in UTF-8 encoded HTML
Hi, How should I code less than and greater than signs in UTF-8 encoded HTML? I.e. I want them to appear on the web page as follows: ... The quick brown fox said 3 is less than 4, then he wrote 3 4. ... file:///C:/Program%20Files/Apache%20Software%20Foundation/Apache2.2/htdocs/PHPDEVZONE/shield/www.shield.on.ca.htm Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] IE layout glitch on Blog
Hi, I am not the owner of http://www.shield.on.ca/Blog/index.php ... But...I am puzzled as to why the navigation sidebar drops down below the blog content in IE 6...but appears fine and dandy (top right immediately below the header) in Firefox 2. Any ideas? I am thinking it is an IE double padding/margin type error...yes...no...yes?? Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hi Frank, Thanks for feedback. * What happens with CSS/Javascript disabled? WCAG 1.0, rightly, wants graceful degradation of CSS/Javascript is disabled...and so do I. So...*without* using an alternate page...(e.g. a text only ghetto...scary)...I'd like my (X)HTML-only page to give all the menu options. So...I tinkered with: A) Showing *all* options in the (X)HTML content...so they *will* appear expanded and therefore usable with just (X)HTML. B) Then I use external (unobtrusive) Javascript window.onload to remove (via DOM Scripting) all the L2 elements*...this works...but I do see an initial flicker..i.e you can discern the original page momentarily and then the L2 items being removed. *Then I set up eventhandlers for the L1 items...so that L2 is added by DOM scripting. Have you come across this flickering problem...is there a better way? Can I remove the DOM elements before they are displayed? And...yes, please - I'd love to get the zip. I will try to upload an example of my approach and send you the URL one evening this week. Cheers, Simon * From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:06:11 +0200 Subject: RE: [WSG] Toggle L2 menu items (within WCAG) Hi Simon, I’m working on a similar issue using unobtrusive DOM/JavaScript to produce the expand/collapse effect of nested unordered list items in a navigation tree structure. This method (related containers) allows activation by both mouse and keyboard, and the expanded nested list items remain open until collapsed by the user. All DOM/Javascript is external to the structure layer of the web page, along with event handlers and presentation layer styles. Gez Lemon, from The Paciello Group (hi Steve), was instrumental in helping me get the DOM/JavaScript sorted out †he is absolutely brilliant. There is still some work to do on it, but the initial behavior layer is working properly. This is definitely not the only way to accomplish this, but I thought It may add to the suggestions being made by other list members. I can email you a small zipped sample project folder for your inspection and possible use, if you feel this may help. Please let me know? Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Toggle L2 menu items (within WCAG)
Hi, I am using an ul to store level 1 menu items li, each of which directs to a page representing a topic. I know have a requirement to add in level 2 menu items (zero or more beneath each L1 menu item, when user clicks(selects) an L1 menu, the L2 options should become visible. ul id=navmenu li id=t-Home class=L1a href=index.htmlHome/a/li li id=t-Bio class=L1a href=Bio.htmlBio/a/li li id=t-Research class=L1a href=Research.htmlResearch/a/li li id=t-Teaching class=L1Teaching ul li id=t-TeachingClasses class=L2a href=T1.htmlClasses/a/li li id=t-TeachingCases class=L2a href=T2.html Cases/a/li /ul /li li id=t-Links class=L1a href=Links.htmlLinks/a/li /ul I've started down the rod of using DOM scripting...to remove the L2 items when the page loads and then toggle there addition/removal when a L1 item is clickedbut the JS is getting complicated...trying to support IE and Firefox. Is there a CSS way that can: A) Show ALL items of CSS is no supported (for WCAG). B) NOT impact SEO. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Fwd: WSG Digest
Hi James, Ok, that's good statement. I like it. Aesthetic goes in CSS and therefore no need for ALT text. Cheers, P.s. My wife was flattered by your compliment. :-) * From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:05:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Alt text for purely aesthetic images This is my view. If an image is for aesthetic purposes, it should be in with the CSS. If an image is to be used as part of the content, for example, the image of your wife, then it should be within img tags. I would say that is common sense to be honest. If you turn of the CSS would you want your users to see images that make no sense in relation to the content, because without the positioning of these images they will displayed in normal flow and leave users scratching their heads. Or lets say a blind person coming across empty alt attributes, or alt attributes that say alt=Rounded corner for the top left header. The WAI have laid out these guidelines for good reason, follow them. Unless there is damn good reason to go against them. Ps. your wife is pretty, she looks like a high achiever James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Accessibility awareness vs site's cleanliness
Hi, So...again with reference to http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ I am on track to add the WCAG conformance logo: http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG1-Conformance.html and the XHTML compliance could also be added (and CSS I suppose)... However, my client (my wife) is none too happy about me adding the logo(s)...as she believes that will spoil the clean feel of the site. Even Form 1 of the WCAG compliance in text This page conforms to W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0, available at http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505, level Double-A. is a tad wordy. So...how can I spread the good word of valid CSS, XHTML and WCAG...without spoiling the site with verbose text or logos? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] WCAG conformance and checking
Hi, I am on a mission to get the microsite that I built for my wife http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ to conform to W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0, available at http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505, level Double-A. I am reading http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ and http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/. I realize no automated checking is foolproof...but are there any good automated tools to assist in WCAG conformance checking? ( I hear cynthia mentioned from time to time...any good/any details? Any others? Any good Firefox extensions/plug-ins? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Alt text for purely aesthetic images
Hi, http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt, longdesc, or in element content). *This includes*: images, graphical representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations ( e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames, scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1] Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: Alt text for purely aesthetic images
Hi again... Whoops...butterfingers I unwittingly hit send before completing my email. Anywise...here is what it should have said: Hi, WCAG 1.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/) states: Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content Provide content that, when presented to the user, conveys essentially the same function or purpose as auditory or visual content 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt, longdesc, or in element content). *This includes*: images, graphical representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations ( e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames, scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1] I have two questions regarding images added via CSS. 1) I added an image for each bullet via CSS .box ul li. How do I specify alt text in this situation? Do I add alt text in the HTML...even though there would be no image if CSS was disabled? 2) What is the implication (what do I need to do) for purely presenation/aesthetic images? For example on my wife's microsite (that I built) http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ what do I need to do, if anything, for the gifs that form rounded corners on the boxes, via CCS on .box, box2 et cetera? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hi Dave, First off, thanks for the feedback. I do have the Firefox Web Developer tool bar...for some reason the toolsvalidate local accessibility seems to hang...possibly a firewall sisue..i will check on a different network. RE: http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/index.html, you said... I would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o) ...please can you elaborate? As far as I can tell this page is valid XHMTL STRICT 1.0. as per: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fphd.london.edu%2Fygrushkacockayne%2Findex.htmlcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlinegroup=0 Dave - I really do appreciate your time and trouble. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] WCAG conformance and checking
Hi Jen, Ooh...http://www.tawdis.net/taw3/cms/en is nice. Thanks! Simon *** From: Jens Brueckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:21:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [WSG] WCAG conformance and checkingWCAG conformance and checking Hi Simon, I realize no automated checking is foolproof...but are there any good automated tools to assist in WCAG conformance checking? ( I hear cynthia mentioned from time to time...any good/any details? Any others? Any good Firefox extensions/plug-ins? while some guidelines can be checked automatically, others have to be checked manually. Apart from Cynthia, which is ok, I would strongly recommend TAW³, which is available as an online service, a standalone version for download and as a Firefox extension. You will find it at http://www.tawdis.net/taw3/cms/en Cheers, jens -- Jens Brueckmann http://www.yalf.de *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hey Nate, Nice one...I will try this. Thanks Si * From: nate hanna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:40:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Javascript focus()...cursor at start of space-filled field in IE, but at end of space-filled in Firefox Simon, See if this link helps you out at all... http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum91/4527.htm - Nate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hey Chris,
Nice options.
Thanks.
*
From: Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:43:46 +1000
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Simon Cockayne wrote:
Hi Chris,
I'd like bother browser to behave the same.
I can se select() ot maybe change the value of the field to be .
But...the HTML is generated...which means a program change...whereas
the javascript is handcoded...so that is the easier change...that's
all.
Hi Simon
ok, so I take it your problem is that the field is being generated on
the server and inserting unwanted space in the value which then causes
this issue, so ideally you need to remove the whitespace from the value?
If thats the case then really the server side should be changed to not
do it in the first place.
If thats not possible then just use javascript to set the value to an
empty string:
document.getElementById('form1').fld1.value =
If you want the whitespace in there for some reason but want the cursor
in the same place in both browsers then thats a different matter. Maybe
you could clarify this?
--
Chris Knowles
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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Hi Chris, I'd like bother browser to behave the same. I can se select() ot maybe change the value of the field to be . But...the HTML is generated...which means a program change...whereas the javascript is handcoded...so that is the easier change...that's all. Simon * From: Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:15:22 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Javascript focus()...cursor at start of space-filled field in IE, but at end of space-filled in Firefox Simon Cockayne wrote: Hi /* It's Friday - hurrah! */ PROBLEM: Javascript focus()...puts cursor at START of space-filled field in IE 6, but at END of space-filled in Firefox 2. Any way (without changing the field value to be ) to get the cursor to appear at the start of the field in Firefox? do you mind if I ask why? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Javascript focus()...cursor at start of space-filled field in IE, but at end of space-filled in Firefox
Hi
/* It's Friday - hurrah! */
PROBLEM: Javascript focus()...puts cursor at START of space-filled
field in IE 6, but at END of space-filled in Firefox 2.
Any way (without changing the field value to be ) to get the cursor
to appear at the start of the field in Firefox?
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html
head
titleFocus bungle/title
meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=utf-8
script type=text/javascript
function init () {
alert(focusing...);
document.getElementById('fld1').focus();
}
/script
/head
body onload=init()
form id=form1 action= onsubmit=return false;
div
input type=text title=fld1 value= id=fld1
name=fld1 size=025 maxlength=025
/div
/form
/body
/html
Cheers,
Si
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[WSG] Which screen reader to test with?
Hi, What screen reader(s) should one test with? Seemingly WSG is keen on the development of web sites that are compatible with vision-impaired users and more specifically those who use screen-readers. It's a laudable goal...but screen reader software seems quite expensive...Jaws $1000 approx. Is there a free screen reader? Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Padding Hebrew in CGI POST
Hi WSG folks, How can I ensure that field values from a Hebrew field arrive in a POSTED CGI string with any spaces on the right (start of Hebrew) field, intact? I have a HTML form that contains a mixture of Hebrew and English fields. HTML page is !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd Hebrew fields are denoted by lang=he dir=rtl attributes. The application works fine and dandy...except that the field values appear in the CGI string with any spaces trimmed off the right hand end of the value. Whilst this is ok for an English field's value, trimming spaces of the END of the field...this is not acceptable for a Hebrew field's value. BECAUSE...spaces on the right hand side are at the START of the Hebrew field. So...how can I ensure that field values from a Hebrew field arrive in the CGI string with any spaces on the right/start of Hebrew field, intact? *** This is how it is passed now: _english_field1=hello_hebrew_field1=שלמ_english_field2= hello_hebrew_field2=שלמmylastfield=dummy *** This is how I want it to be passed (note the spaces on the right of _hebrew_field2 ! ): _english_field1=hello_hebrew_field1=שלמ_english_field2= hello_hebrew_field2=שלמ mylastfield=dummy Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Hi, Someone suggested using a PDF icon. Is this something you can get from adobe? Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
They certainly don't make it easy to find - http://www.adobe.com/misc/linking.html#pdficon Someone suggested using a PDF icon. Is this something you can get from adobe? Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Image chooser
Hi, Anyone recommend an image chooser? (You know...display a bunch of thumnails and allow some action based on clicking one) Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
Hi, Anyone using jQuery (http://jquery.com/) or Yahoo UI ( http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/) ? Do they, help to, build nice Standards based apps? Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance, error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate? *I LOVE those little green lights. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] window.event.keycode works for IE, not for firefox
Hi,
window.event.keycode works for IE to capture key input, not for Firefox.
Firefox throws an error window.event has no properties.
Sowhat code can be used for both?
*** My HTML snippet:
body onKeyDown=setCmdKeyIE();
...
/body
*** My Javascript snippet:
function setCmdKeyIE() {
var cmdkeycode = ;
if (window.event.keyCode != 13 window.event.keyCode != 33
window.event.keyCode != 34 window.event.keyCode 112 ) return;
...
}
Cheers,
Simon
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[WSG] Re: window.event.keycode works for IE, not for firefox
Hi,
I found a cross-browser (IE and Firefox) method on www.javaranch.com
(which is down at the moment).
1) Dispense with onkeydown in body and use document.onkeydown instead.
2) Then in the key-handling script...declare evt as a parameter.
3) Then populate nbr with event.keyCode if window.event is not false
(which it is in Firefox) OTHERWISE use evt.which.
Hey presto keypresses can be caught in IE and Firefox.
But is this a standards acceptable way of doing it?
HTML
script
function handleKeyPress(evt) {
var nbr;
var nbr = (window.event)?event.keyCode:evt.which;
alert(nbr);
return true;
}
document.onkeydown= handleKeyPress;
/script
BODY
pKeypress7/p
/BODY
/HTML
Cheers,
Simon
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[WSG] DOCTYPE prevents script processing in IE!
Hi,
Adding DOCTYPE stops page functioning with IE!
The following HTML works (in QUIRKS) for both IE and
Firefox...alertING Key Pressed!...erm...when a key is pressed.
html lang=en-US
head
title
Keypress testing.
/title
meta http-equiv=Content-Type
content=text/html;charset=utf-8
script type=text/javascript
function handleKeyPress(evt) {
alert(Key pressed!)
}
/script
/head
body onkeydown=handleKeyPress(event);
pPress a key!/p
/body
/html
However, adding...
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
...before the HTML...makes the Firefox page valid AND it still works ok.
Whereas the IE page, though also now valid, but no alert appears upon key press!
What's the story?
Cheers,
Simon
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[WSG] Re: DOCTYPE prevents script processing in IE!
Hi,
So I fixed the problem by specifying...
document.onkeydown = handleKeyPress;
...rather than inline in the bodytag as before...and now IE and
Firefox both work and both validate.
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en-US
head
title
Keypress testing 14.
/title
meta http-equiv=Content-Type
content=text/html;charset=utf-8
script type=text/javascript
function handleKeyPress(evt) {
alert(Key pressed!)
}
document.onkeydown = handleKeyPress;
/script
/head
body
pPress a key!/p
/body
/html
Cheers,
Simon
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Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
Designer wrote: Andrew Maben wrote: But as to the cost of compliant, accessible HTML, does anyone *not* find it quicker and easier (and hence cheaper) to write than tag soup? Recently, his son got involved and mailed me to say that a friend of his was doing it for nothing and he could do it very quickly, so he was replacing my stuff with his friend's. It would be unprofessional to name names, so i won't, but suffice to say that this person is not an amateur. You want a laugh? Look at the work he's produced : http://www.seftonphoto.co.uk. Thing is, all my effort and work to provide him with a decent site has gone down the tubes. Standards? A quick look at the code suggests it's more a case for crying. You say this person is not an amateur - but one look shows that they have used Dreamweaver without ever looking at the code that Dreamweaver generates. I stopped training people in how to use Dreamweaver when MX first came in back in 2004 - (and I've been doing penance for training people to use WYSIWYG editors ever since!). This is what we're up against - the lobby for who web design is quick and dirty and done with a WYSIWYG editor without any regard for the code, standards, accessibility or very much else (not a single alt attribute on the page I looked at!). You must be gutted, Bob! Andrew - this is what we're facing. It is easier to write compliant and accessible HTML - but how many designers are writing code at all (or care at all about standards?). The gap between WYSIWYG users and web artisans is growing wider - not narrowing! Simon www.simonmoss.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] document.getElementById slow?
Hi, http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Using_Web_Standards_in_your_Web_Pages states: The best and most supported practice for getting scriptable access to an element in an HTML page is to use document.getElementById(id). A colleague of mine reckons such access will be much slower than accessing the element directly. So which is faster? document.forms.myform.elements.field1 or document.getElementById(field1) Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] question on 'logical tab order'
You shall able to navigate this site using tab features with your keyboards comfortably. Logical tab orders are taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. [1] Hi Tee, I would first point out is that this will be almost meaningless to anyone other than people familiar with html and css - so this is a message to web designer colleagues, but certainly not to the general public! Having said that - I'm not a language expert (gave up teaching English 17 years ago!) but below I've put a couple of versions, with explanations below them. You will be able to navigate this site comfortably using the tab key on your keyboard. Logical tab order is taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. or You should be able to navigate this site comfortably using the tab key on your keyboard. Logical tab order is taken into account to prevent confusion; :active and :focus pseudo classes are used so that links and form items are highlighted when they are 'tabbed to'. (Why not when they are focussed. ?) Explanation of changes: You shall able - could be You shall be able - but that sounds awkward - it is more common to say You will be able or even to change the tense to You should be able which I think fits the meaning better. I moved comfortably from the end of the sentence - eg: navigating the site should be comfortable when using the tab key on your keyboard rather than: navigating the site when using the tab key should be comfortable (what you had was not incorrect - but I think moving the word comfortably to the middle of the sentence is a more direct way of saying what you want to say). Logical tab order is seen as a singular item - you are talking about one thing - the logic of the tab order (even though that splits up into many parts). It is confusing when you stop to look at it! I hope this is helpful! Cheers, Simon simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Safari now on Windows
I've just downloaded Safari 3.0 (522.11.3) and I'm running it on Win XP Pro SP2 and have to say I haven't experienced any problems so far (touch wood). The fonts are fine, and I even used the bug report button - it took a long time, but didn't crash as others are reporting. FWIW I have been running iTunes and Quicktime on this machine - I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Simon Gary Barber wrote: Main problem I have with safari is on win xp sp2 none of the fonts it wants to use render at all. Makes life very interesting. ~ simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie positioning help needed
Hi Kevin, It's still acting up in IE7 (and IE6 appears to have width problems with the #header div which is throwing everything out)... In IE7 it seems to be reading the position relative from where the #gradient div is in the code - that is, if you set top to 0, it aligns with the bottom of the #wrapper div. The only way I can get #gradient to appear in the right place (while keeping the current code) in IE7 is to apply top: -125px. You could use conditional comments to serve that up exclusively to IE7 - but does the #gradient div really need to be outside the #wrapper div? Would a z-index not place it over the #rightcol div? HTH - but I hope this casts some light on what's happening in IE7. Cheers for now, Simon Theres a div acting up in ie7(6 as well?) - http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/testie.html it shows up on the bottom right of the ie7 screen but works in ff and safari Since i was made aware of the problem Ive made changes but need to see another screen shot to see if they've had any effect. ~ simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ie positioning help needed
It still doesn't work - it's doing the same thing, but from directly beneath the text instead of from directly beneath the wrapper. I haven't used position:relative much myself, so can't cast any light on why IE is behaving differently. Given that it is treating position:relative differently from all the other browsers, I reckon using conditional comments and giving IE a different stylesheet for that one value would make sense. Regards, Simon kevin mcmonagle wrote: I put it inside the wrapper in the version below-it works as you suggested in ff and safari. How does this look on your end? http://www.eaf.textdriven.com/test2ie.html ~ simonmoss.co.uk Tel: 0117 908 3831 Mob: 07843 383395 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] target and accessibility
In fact there is a let-out clause - http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#link-text - you *can* use the same text for different links, providing you use unique title text for each one... (still irritating - but as you say - there is a point there...) Simon www.simonmoss.co.uk That's why it failed validation of course. viz: 13.1 Clearly identify the target of each link. [Priority 2] Link text should be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context -- either on its own or as part of a sequence of links. Link text should also be terse. For example, in HTML, write Information about version 4.3 instead of click here. In addition to clear link text, content developers may further clarify the target of a link with an informative link title (e.g., in HTML, the title attribute). So I repeat : 20 items for sale would have to be: Buy now, Buy it now, Buy this now, Now buy it, Get it at once, Purchase now, Get yer wallet out, Fork out now, Dig in for the dosh, etc etc. :-) Ludicrous! I see the point, obviously, but really!!! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Article: MIME and Content Negotiation
"Comments, especially error-spotting and general "bravo" very welcome" One minor inaccuracy. The article written by Neil Crosby is based on an article I wrote in October of the previous year. Oddly enough, it was Russ Weakely who badgered me into writing it in the first place. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/
Re: [WSG] Clearleft.com
Eh? What tables? Do you mean 100% width? Fixed-width layouts are less accessible than fluid-width layouts, although an elastic approach may be better. I have a 21" monitor (running 1280x1024) and I don't find it overwhelming at all. By the way, I absolutely love the two-cube logo design. It even looks pretty call as a favicon. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: Komal Agrawal To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Clearleft.com Suggestion #2: Why 100% table design? You can't control the way your usersees your site. I have a 21 inch monitor and it stretches all the way acrossand is somewhat overwhelming.
Re: [WSG] Fully compliant sample site
This one is much better: http://j-walk.com/other/todd/aboutme.htm The web designer has a site too: http://j-walk.com/other/myrtle/index.htm Simon :) - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign To: Web Standards Group Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Fully compliant sample site One of the best fully compliant sites I have seen is:http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbsite/There is a detailed tutorial here:http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail51.html:)Russ
Re: [WSG] browser statistics
I use a variety of sources, which include: The Counter.com Browser News WebSideStory And my own statistics, of course. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: Roberto Gorjão To: Web Standards Group Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: [WSG] browser statistics Hi all,Does anyone know, by any chance, a website with reliable statistics on browsers’ use and popularity?
Re: [WSG] Flash Satay method article
The method was never 100% reliable, but many designers have certainly put it to good use. I prefer to use this method: object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=7,0,19,0"width="400" height="300" param name="movie" value="movie.swf"param name="quality" value="high" param name="bgcolor" value="#FF"!--[if !IE] -- object data="movie.swf" width="400" height="300" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" param name="quality" value="high" param name="bgcolor" value="#FF" param name="pluginurl" value="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"ALTERNATE CONTENT HERE (should not be displayed) /object!-- ![endif]-- /object It allows you having to mess around with using embed, but it does rely on Microsoft's Conditional Comments. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: Stevio To: Web Standards Group Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: [WSG] Flash Satay method article Is the Flash Satay method from this article in 2002 still the most up to date and proper way of inserting Flash objects in a valid XHTML way?http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/
Re: [WSG] Flash Satay method article
Actually, that won't be where alternate content goes. It should say: (Should not be displayed) My bad. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: Simon Jessey To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Flash Satay method article ALTERNATE CONTENT HERE (should not be displayed)
Re: [WSG] The mail problem
I'd feel much better having Russ incharge of a nuclear arsenal than George W. Bush, but that's just me. Thank you for taking the appropriate measures. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign To: Web Standards Group And in case you are wondering who suggested shutting down the whole mailserver... You guessed it, that was me. Just don't let me near any nuclearweapons!
[WSG] silly question
can anyone tell me why the list bullets are not showing in ie6. they appear to be working in firefox bar ie any help much appreciated ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] silly question
sorry forgot the url - http://www.tyalgumstore.com.au/temp.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Popups
Hi, David. Why not use a DIV that contains all the extra information you wish to convey? Conceal the DIV with display:none, and then reveal the DIV when the user hovers over some sort of hotspot (use a lowercase white"i" on a blue circle- the universal symbol for "information").Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: david To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:50 AM Subject: [WSG] Popups So I was thinking about doing what other sites do... and thats to put a "more info on this field" link, people click on it, and a popup appears with the minimum of browser UI chrome and jumps to the right section in the code Does anyone have any alternatives?
Re: [WSG] My Site
dude that site bites ! Anthony Timberlake wrote: I think that I have done a nice job with the new stylesheets. On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:58:20 +0100, JohnyB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Try http://colorschemer.com/ Have a look at http://wellstyled.com/tools/colorscheme2/index-en.html -- Jan Brasna :: alphanumeric.cz | webcore.cz | designlab.cz | janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] using IE7 script
IE7 works very well indeed. The print style sheets problem can be overcome, I believe, but another problem exists - you cannot use a stylesheet switcher because it overrides the CSS that is used to fix IE. Simon Jessey Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Site: http://keystonewebsites.com/ Personal Site: http://jessey.net/ - Original Message - From: Adrian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] using IE7 script One problem we have encountered (which should be resolved in the next version) is it causes problems with your print style sheets. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Serving application/xhtml+xml MIME Type to W3C HTML Validator problem
Hi, Andrey.
This altered version of the script respects the Validator:
?php
/*
This script determines the preferred MIME type of a user agent
and then delivers either application/xhtml+xml or text/html.
Copyright (c) 2003 - 2004 Keystone Websites and Simon Jessey
*/
$charset = utf-8;
$mime = text/html;
function fix_code($buffer) {
return (str_replace( /, , $buffer));
}
if(stristr($_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT],application/xhtml+xml)) {
if(preg_match(/application\/xhtml\+xml;q=([01]|0\.\d{1,3}|1\.0)/i,$_SERVER
[HTTP_ACCEPT],$matches)) {
$xhtml_q = $matches[1];
if(preg_match(/text\/html;q=q=([01]|0\.\d{1,3}|1\.0)/i,$_SERVER[HTTP_ACCE
PT],$matches)) {
$html_q = $matches[1];
if((float)$xhtml_q = (float)$html_q) {
$mime = application/xhtml+xml;
}
}
} else {
$mime = application/xhtml+xml;
}
}
if(stristr($_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT],WDG_Validator) ||
stristr($_SERVER[HTTP_USER_AGENT],W3C_Validator)) {
$mime = application/xhtml+xml;
}
if($mime == application/xhtml+xml) {
$doc_head = ?xml version=\1.0\ encoding=\$charset\?\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head.!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \-//W3C//DTD XHTML
1.1//EN\;
$doc_head = $doc_head.
\http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd\;\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head.html xmlns=\http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml\;
xml:lang=\en\\n\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head. head\n;
} else {
ob_start(fix_code);
$doc_head = !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN\;
$doc_head = $doc_head. \http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd\;\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head.html lang=\en\\n\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head. head\n;
$doc_head = $doc_head.meta http-equiv=\content-type\
content=\$mime;charset=$charset\\n;
}
header(Content-Type: $mime;charset=$charset);
header(Vary: Accept);
print $doc_head;
?
Simon Jessey
--
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web : http://jessey.net/blog/
work: http://keystonewebsites.com/
- Original Message -
From: Andrey V. Stefanenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am try to adapt technic of serving the right MIME Type you may find at
http://keystonewebsites.com/articles/mime_type.php
Partially all fine - at my page i am serving application/xhtml+xml with
XHTML 1.1 Doctype to Mozilla based browsers and text/html with XHTML 1.0
Strict to others.
http://development.it.net.ua/lab/itdevelopment/itdevelopment/validator_mockery.php
Work well - Mozilla get XHTML 1.1, IE6 get XHTML 1.0
But W3C validator determine my source like XHTML 1.0 with text/html
MIME-type
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for Roger Johansson
I'd just like to say that I think this series of Ten Questions is excellent. Each interview gives us the opportunity to learn more about the minds and techniques of influential industry folk, and I've been thoroughly impressed with the results. Simon Jessey -- mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web : http://jessey.net/blog/ work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Ten Questions for Roger Johansson Roger Johansson talks about web standards, round corners, development mistakes, ampersands and more: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/roger-johansson.cfm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Re: It's all in the MIME
Of course, you can still get the original version of the script from here: http://keystonewebsites.com/articles/mime_type.php Simon Jessey -- mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web : http://jessey.net/blog/ work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Alan Milnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: [WSG] Re: It's all in the MIME Thanks to everyone for all the help, suggestions and links. I've amended the code from http://www.workingwith.me.uk/articles/scripting/mimetypes/ to send IE XHTML 1.0 and if anyone wants to borrow it then it can be found at:- http://www.college.gameplan.org.uk/wsg/mimetype.txt ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS drop-down menus
ie mac has some issues as well mike ... i think Michael Efford wrote: object param name=wmode value=transparent embed wmode=transparent / /object setting wmode to transparent on both the object tag and the embed tag seems to work in all current browsers. i think netscape 6 had a problem with it, but who uses that! ;) Michael Efford http://www.michaelefford.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Restricted HTML Editor?
I recently spent heaps of time building a site using css and standards-compliant HTML pages. Now I need to hand back content editing to a pool of unwashed users. They like changing fonts, adding bright colours, bold, underline, centering etc whenever they get the chance. Ideally I'd like to be able to give them an HTML form to edit from, which contains a cut-down HTML WISIWIG editor that allows them to add only: - bold block of text (which I can access render as h2/h2 ), - plain text (which I can access render as p/p, - links There were posts on this mailing list a week or 2 back re HTML WISIWIG editors, but most give away too much control to the user and produce non-css-based HTML. Its a big site (130,000+ pages) and I can't expect to maintain it all myself. What do others in this situation do? Simon Chalmers Analyst/Programmer Level 8, ITS Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Ph: 02 9230 2943 Fax: 02 9230 2358 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au NOTICE - This e-mail is solely for the named addressee and may be confidential. You should only read, disclose, transmit, copy, distribute, act in reliance on or commercialise the contents if you are authorised to do so. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender by e-mail immediately and then destroy any copy of this message. Except where otherwise specifically stated, views expressed in this e-mail are those of the individual sender. The New South Wales Parliament does not guarantee that this communication is free of errors, virus, interception or interference. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [OT] NZ vs Aust
you could also discuss this elsewhere, where someone might actually care t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: WE ARE NOT AUSSIES WE ARE CLEARLY DIFFERENT/SUPERIOR TO THE AUSSIES KIWI'S RULE!!! For someone to say we are one in the same, its an unsult. ___ Cameron W (aka t94xr) http://www.t94xr.net.nz/ XHTML CSS Compliant. Taupo, NZ. - Original Message - From: Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: [WSG] [OT] NZ vs Aust Natalie Yeah, but the Kiwis are not Australians, they are New Zealanders, so Natalie we have an excuse ;p ok, I know this is waaay off-topic, and I *do* promise no more posts on it, but trash talking is trash talking :) So, to use a couple of pertinent title tags from Natalie's site http://www.pixelkitty.net/ ... No, Kiwis are not Australians - Love it or Shove it and as for Australians .. hmmm ... - all talk, no walk springs to mind :) Mike Brown (ducking and running in NZ) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ultimate noob question.... is table-less layout meaning literally?
Hi, Duncan.
All the sites I design are based on CSS-driven layouts; however, I still use
tables for presenting tabulated data (naturally). Even the most hardcore CSS
junkie will admit that there are some table-based layouts that cannot be
replicated using just CSS. The usual way to get around this problem is to
compromise the layout, but a client may insist on a certain functionality
that can only be achieved with tables at the moment.
Deep nesting is definitely a problem, because it produces a LOT of wasteful,
presentational markup that is hard to immediately comprehend. Deeply-nested
DIVs are just as bad though, so don't fall out of the frying pan into the
fire.
Simon Jessey
--
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web : http://jessey.net/blog/
work: http://keystonewebsites.com/
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] ultimate noob question is table-less layout meaning
literally?
Thing I have trouble getting my head round is the term table-less
layout. I have started doing entirely CSS based design where I add no
design info to the XHTML, and i've had great success, but I've not been
able to abandon the use of tables entirely. This is primarily because
with
tables the row height is always uniform and lush edges (e.g. shadowing)
can
be easily recreated using empty rows/columns with the correct class.
Also I don't understand where deeply nested tables = too deep. For one
of my sites I have a 3x3 table for the layout. The outer cells make up
the
frame of the site, all done using td{background: and then extra tables in
the middle-left (menu) and middle-center (content) cells again using 3x3s
to give a border (or at least 1x3s with fixed width). Is this bad or is
this acceptable?
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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**
