Re: [WSG] standards-compliant designers and shoddy work poor QA
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:31:45 pm Michael Horowitz wrote: The answer is very simple. 100% of potential users of a website have IE on their computer. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Sorry to spoil your fun Michael, but 100% of Apple Mac OS X 10.4 or better don't have IE installed at all. There are also 100% of Linux users who don't have IE installed by default. Nokia, Motorola, etc don't have IE installed on mobile devices. The Asus EeePC, the hottest selling bit of technology at the moment, does not have IE installed. IE can't be installed unless the custom-built default OS is replaced by Windows XP, which is not a simple process and unlikely to be be attempted by regular users. Cross platform compatibility, with fluid designs, is becoming even more of a requirement as people start to use non-Microsoft products. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 Registered Ubuntu User #19586 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera files antitrust against MS: standards one part
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:19:26 am Michael Horowitz wrote: I can't see why government should be enforcing standards. Shouldn't that be a decision of private companies, developers and users not government? Michael Horowitz Governments enforce and specify standards every day, that is what we elect them for. Can you imagine a world where car manufacturers, electricans, builders, drivers, etc were not forced to follow standards imposed by the government? -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 Registered Ubuntu User #19586 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:18:32 pm James Jeffery wrote: Good Morning! Here is my problem. Im at college this year, preparing for University (Hopefully Birmingham) to study Software Engineering. At college we have a class on a Thursday called Web Development and the guy thats teaching the class in an absolute joke, no seriously, he is. He is teaching students how to create web pages using Dreamweaver in Design view, and then telling students if they can do this, they are Web Designers. I was angry, i instantly replied and questioned his knowledge on HTML and asked the age old question: What are tables in HTML used for?, he replied To lay out web pages and for tabled data, i replied with wrong, he laughed and told me he knows what he is talking about. I seriously want to raise a huge issue at the college, but im not sure how to do it. This guy is on 22k+ a year, and cannot even teach people correctly, he may have been a pro back in the days when tables were acceptable to lay out web pages, but in todays world he is a fool. Its half term now, we have an assignment to complete using Dreamweaver, and he said i have to use tables, its not a problem, i will do as the assignment requests. I will walk the extra mile and create the same page without tables, with semantics, with accessibility in mind and without the bloated mark-up, and then write a essay comparing the both. What power do i have (if any) to try and get the college to understand they cannot use a cowboy to teach tomorrows computer experts. Should i use my essay and examples and take it to the head of the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its definatly a problem. I really am angry and annoyed, you pay money to be taught the correct methods. People who don't understand are fine, they will believe him, and thats the shocking part about it all. I await some advice. Hi, It may not be the tutor's or colege's fault. Curriculum is written at a higher level and then pushed down to educators. This process involves industry experts and takes a number of years. Often this curriculum is tied to government funding and as such can't be changed. The subject may actually be design a web site using industry standard web design software which currently the industry standard is Dreamweaver. However, some educators take the easy way out and only teach what they know. The subject could simply be create a web site and they only know Dreamweaver based templates or starter pages. They haven't been taught any other way. I have seen this first hand, I have taught web design and other IT courses for eight years, always meeting learning outcomes, and often pointing out that industry attitudes have changed. Creating sites the old way and the new way is useful for students who may have to manage old sites that can't be upgraded overnight for many reasons. Recognising the weaknesses and strengths with CSS layout and tabular layout makes students better designers, and hopefully a better Internet for all. Telling a teacher they are wrong in front of many students often offends them, especially when they don't keep up to date with current trends. However, most teachers who adapt and learn the new technologies do so in their own time, unpaid and often unrecognised. Do your site both ways and demonstrate the advantages of CSS layout using accessibility tools and ratings. And just think how far in front of the other students when applying for jobs saying that you can support old and new sites. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Story Boards
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:46:58 pm marvin hunkin wrote: Hi. doing a project for my website development course. now, part of the requirements says that i need to create a story board to represent what content is to be displayed on each page. Now sighted students, would draw navigation and story board diagrams. now, had to do this in word tables and tried html. but my lecturer is still not happy with what i have come up with. now, just wondering, is there any software, that might be able to represent the story boards for the four websites that i am developing for this semester. any tips, tricks, or any other similar experiences. let me know, if anyone been in the same position. unfortunately the guy who did start to develop an accessible text to speech drawing software, got his phd, and did not complete the project and still in limbo. he got to the third user tests, and then nicked off. he did this at Burkely University in Callifornia and the product was to be called Intercommunication Draw 2. okay, can you help out or give suggestions or how to resolve these problems? cheers Marvin. Hi Marvin, I recommend starting with a liquid layout like either of Thierry Koblentz's CSS Layout 6 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/6.asp or CSS Layout 8 at http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/liquid/8.asp. These block layouts can be printed to display the layout. You should then be able to describe the size, colours, content and content position of each block as the text on the story boards. This description is what makes a storyboard effective, not the story board sketch. Try creating story boards for each section of the layout: * Header *Menu *Content *Subsection *Footer There would be a number of story boards for the content, and maybe the subsection, but you should only need a single story board for the other sections. Hope this helps! -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 01:15:18 pm Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: ... to providing the ability to enter the store. Should every store in the world be forced to provide a ramp for wheelchair access? No. Sorry, but this is wrong. This is the exact reason for disability legislation, every store should have wheelchair access. It may be difficult and incur a cost but in our democratic countries we elect politicians to make sure that people with disabilities have access to infrastructure, public and private commercial places. Some people have mentioned converting books into Braille and audio formats as too difficult. This is wrong and there are specific exemptions in copyright legislation that permit this, without the publishers' express permission. As one other repondant noted, the Internet has opened up a whole new world to people with disabilities, not just people with visual impairments. The delivery method makes the Internet much more accessible and the protocols used for delivery allow for the delivery of content without discrimination. Someone asked for a car analogy, so to me it is like anti-pollution legislation. Does it cost more to reduce harmful emissions from cars? Yes. Can a car manufacturer ignore this legislation because it costs more? No. Anti-discrimination legislation is the same, it is about protecting sections of our community from being excluded because it costs more. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash With Jaws
On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:49:50 pm Steve Green wrote: One of our trainers tells me that only 4% of blind people have no sight at all. Some may not be able to see a few feet in front of them and need a guide dog to walk up the street, yet they can see a screen close-up and may not even need a screen reader (although they would probably benefit from using one). Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Crockford Sent: 27 September 2007 09:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash With Jaws On 27 Sep 2007, at 09:48, James Jeffery wrote: And i also said a blind person can create graphics, but only at a certain level. there are also degrees of sight impairment. I think we should all review our attitudes to sight and sightedness before assuming that vision impairment and the use of a screen reader automatically means totally blind. shades of grey, not Black and White thinking ;o) Hi Marvin, I have taught students with visual impairments on a number of Information Technology courses at TAFE NSW in Bathurst and second these comments. It definitely challeges your preconceived ideas about sight, blindness and how to overcome these difficulties. Unfortunately we haven't had a visually impaired student do the web design course, but I can't think why an assistant could not be used for these graphic modules. I'm unsure of your sight limitations but it is a requirement of the various disability legislations that you must not be discriminated against because of your disability. If you are still having problems send me an email at my TAFE address below. We are going on holidays tomorrow but I can see what I can do after the break. -- Regards, Steve email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] setting fontsize in body
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 20:37, Rick Lecoat wrote: And I always wonder how many people, particularly the older generation who (without wanting to generalise too much) may not be quite as tech- savvy as their kids, actually have no idea that the default text size can even be adjusted, and possibly look at browser-default text and think That text looks a bit big and clunking. But I assume that there's nothing I can do about except use the text resizing control in IE. It is because most computer training courses don't teach the correct skills, so these bad skills get passed on. The old 14 - 15 CRT monitors had resolutions around 800 x 600 or even 640 x 480 because the graphics cards and manufacturing techniques allowed these resolutions. 800 x 600 with the default fonts set by Windows gave fonts approxiamtely 12 points in size when compared to printed material. When people moved to 17 CRT the resolutions moved to 1024 x 768 or stayed at 800 x 600 to get fonts slightly larger than standard printed material. If people were having problems seeing textual menus or content they were advised to change the resolution by expert users. Larger 19 and 21 monitors were seen as (expensive) aids for visually impaired users who needed larger font. Now we are moving into the LCD age, either 4:3 or 16:9 ratios, but with higher pixels densities than early monitors. Most computer trainers still teach users to change monitor resolution because the training material has not been updated to most effectively use new technology. They don't have the skills or knowledge about the usability options in all modern Operating Systems. You've seen it in Windows, but ignored it, go on guess where! It is the tab before Screen Settings called Appearance, but everyone uses the Screen Settings Tab and changes the resolution. With LCD monitors the best screen appearance is at the native resolution, the maximum number of pixels or wires built into the monitor. If the fonts are too small for your eyes, change the appearance. Firstly, try Large Fonts, then Extra Large Fonts and finally Advanced where you can specify fonts, font sizes, icon sizes and much more. If these settings are changed, many people think the screen resolution has been changed - and are amazed when shown the 17 LCD is actually running at 1280 x 1024, the native resolution. They are even more amazed when shown browser zooming! How do I know these things? First hand experience! I teach IT to adults and have done for the better part of a decade. I have changed CRT LCD monitors to native resolution with fonts and icons increased in size in classrooms used by multiple people, including teachers systems, and found that the systems stayed that way for weeks or even months because they were usable by everyone. Changes only occurred after I had pointed this out to teachers and students - they then knew how to set-up the system so it worked for them! Oh, and if your eyesight is diminishing, or the default appearance is hard to see, do yourself a favour - get yours eyes checked. You will be amazed at the lack of eye strain and headaches after getting glasses - even using your new found skills customising the monitor appearance. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V__/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 * If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say, then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth, not just what you're told it is. Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using target=_blank
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 23:49, Ryan Lin wrote: Hi all, With the XHTML Strict DTD, forcing a new window to open for a link via target=_blank is not a valid semantic method anymore. I myself believe that whether to open in a new or current window should be user decision, not wed designer/developer. If I am using Strict DTD, the only way to achieve opening the new window is through JavaScripts. So what argument should I give to my clients not to use target=_blank ? If I say that won't validate your page, they won't care. So any non-technical argument that I can give to them? Ryan The argument must be why you are using the XHTML Strict DTD, not about one small component of XHTML Strict. What is interesting though is that HTML 5 is keeping the target attribute: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#valid8 -- Regards, Steve *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
On Friday 20 July 2007 07:44, Dave Lane wrote: If I click on a link on their site I expect it to open in my current window - if it insists on opening a new window, it pisses me off, because that's not how I work. I see that approach as indicating a designer still in a very IE5.5-6 mindset: primitive. Sites that try to manipulate me don't pique my interest, they put me right off (and, needless to say, I don't go back). Dave There are valid cases for opening content from the same site in a new window. The most obvious is when logging into secure sections of web sites, like online banking. By forcing a new window that then generates the secure session and closing the window at the end of the session you prevent people from using the back button to re-access the secure content. The new window should also have all elements other than a scrollbar hidden so the window can't easily be used to continue surfing the Internet. IMHO this should become a web convention in the way the Internet has been commercialised. All online transactions should be conducted in their own window that is killed once the transaction is complete. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V__/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 * If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say, then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth, not just what you're told it is. Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Content Management issue ?
On Tue, 29 May 2007 01:51:16 am Kevin Ross wrote: Can anyone lend a hand? Thanks very much... Regards, Kevin. Have you tried looking at http://www.opensourcecms.com/? They have working installations of all Open Source CMS that you can try as user and administrator. Sit down with the client and try each one out. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V__/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 * If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say, then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth, not just what you're told it is. Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Suggestions Please for: CMS / E-commerce Solutions
On Tue, 29 May 2007 06:20:05 am Mark Hedley wrote: Hi everyone. I am currently looking for a cost-effective (preferably opensource) solution to run our companies UK based web site. Have you looked at the e-Commerce section at http://www.opensourcecms.com? -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V__/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 * If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say, then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth, not just what you're told it is. Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Converting font size from pt to % or em
There is one issue that will always cause conjecture and arguments with font
sizes and hasn't been raised. Australian, New Zealand, UK and European
default printed font size when word processing is 12 pt Times New Roman
whilst the US uses 10 pt Times New Roman, so they are used to smaller text
with more information crammed into each page.
This is a personal opinion of the font sizes displayed on a 19 1280 x 1024 @
96 PPI LCD monitor in relation to the default printed font size. My eyes are
approximately 65 cm from the screen and I do wear glasses for mild myopia
(short sightedness).
On Mon, 28 May 2007 04:43:23 pm Philip Kiff wrote:
4. Sample Sites
--
Here are a list of some example sites that apply a percentage to their body
font-size. These sites were selected because of their popularity, or their
interest in web accessibility and CSS design issues.
Digg
http://www.digg.com/
body {font: 83%/1.4}
Only just acceptable size due to other elements being scaled smaller.
Wired
http://www.wired.com/
body {font-size:62.5%;}
The body font is OK but the menus are way too small.
Salon
http://www.salon.com/
body {font-size: 70%;}
The body font was OK but other sections like menus and Current Opinion
sections are smaller.
Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/en/us/default.aspx
body {font-size: 70%; }
Too small like many US based web sites.
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/d/
body {font-size: 62.5%}
Too smal but lots of white space around all text elements makes it easier to
read.
Web Standards Project
http://www.webstandards.org/
body {font: 72%/160%}
Again too small.
Clagnut
http://clagnut.com/
body {font-size:81.25%;}
htmlbody {font-size:13px;}
The main content was OK but I have a large monitor. 17 LCD at 1280 x 1024 was
still OK.
Jim Thatcher
http://jimthatcher.com/
body {font-size: 86%;}
Not too bad, but sideboxes had smaller text again.
Juicy Studio
http://juicystudio.com/
body {font-size: 95%;}
Easy to read even though only half my screen was used - large yellow slab down
the right half of the screen.
The Man in Blue
http://themaninblue.com/
body {font-size: 80%;}
Main content just OK but many sections are much smaller.
CSS Beauty
http://www.cssbeauty.com/
body {font: 76%}
Too small and light blue light green on white has contrast problems.
End of email.
Phil.
So, how do you solve this issue?
You can't - that's what makes us web designers. We all have preferences for
font sizes, colours, screen layout and more; then we have to deal with a
clients' preconceived ideas on what THEIR web site should look like.
However we need to be aware that many people using the Internet won't have 19
LCD, 21 LCD, 20 widescreens, 24 widescreens or 30 widescreens or dual
monitor setups. We need to make sure that our designs look OK on 17 CRT
monitors at 1024 x 768 and 800 x 600 (hopefully it will still look OK on a
15 CRT monitor too if it passes these tests).
Then we need to consider how much should a page zoom in before breaking. This
really means using proportional measurements and not pixels, mostly due to
IEs well documented problems, but also for containers.
The hard part is to not assume that bigger is always better. I have had a
vision impaired student who needed all text at 18 pt Times New Roman - any
larger and he could not see all of the individual letters, any smaller and it
got too hard to read.
Just my $0.02 worth - the most important point is that we are aware of the
issues, even if we can't agree on the perfect solution.
--
Regards,
Steve
Bathurst Computer Solutions
URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile: 0407 224 251
_
... (0)
... / / \
.. / / . )
.. V__/_
Linux Powered!
Registered Linux User #355382
*
If you read the same things as others
and say the same things they say, then
you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a
bit more independent and radical and
consider intelligence the ability to
think about matters on your own and
ask a lot of skeptical questions to
get at the real truth, not just what
you're told it is.
Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006
*
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Re: [WSG] Site Check - Streaming Media
On Tue, 22 May 2007 11:19:46 pm Hassan Schroeder wrote: Parker, Simi (DPS) wrote: I am investigating some potential issues with our live broadcasting service and if you use an O/S / browser / media player configuration other than Windows / Internet Explorer / Windows Media player, I would really appreciate your feedback and/or assistance. I would particularly welcome feedback from Macintosh and Linux users. Unsurprisingly, I get a black screen with '(no video)' message in the popup on SuSE 10 Linux/Firefox; Konqueror gives me an alert: No plugin found for 'Microsoft Media'. Do you want to download one from www.microsoft.com? Total no-go. HTH! I get nothing displayed but the file name starting to downlaod/stream in the MPlayer plugin for Firefox 2.0.0.3. This is using Ubuntu 7.04 with the w32codec package installed, so the file format is the problem on Linux. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions URL: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 _ ... (0) ... / / \ .. / / . ) .. V__/_ Linux Powered! Registered Linux User #355382 * If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say, then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth, not just what you're told it is. Apple's Inventor - Steve Wozniak 2006 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Certified Usable
On 20/03/2006, at 2:06 PM, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Sydney-based Usability company PTG has made the claim that they can certify the usability of their websites: http://www.usabilitynews.com/news/article3005.asp User-friendly, that's something different. And in my opinion nobody can guarantee the user-friendlyness of a website to all users in the world. Sorry for troll response/rant I think it is just a marketing ploy in association with http:// www.aimia.com.au trying to make the AIMIA sound official and important - sorry if you think it is. I quickly validated their page with HTML Tidy (Firefox extension) and the page about Certified Usable has 2 errors and 44 warnings for ! DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN (after getting past the 100 odd empty lines) with upper and lower case tags. Their page is generated from the Shado CMS built by Straker Interactive Ltd so I assume getting real WAI validation would be nearly impossible for their own web site. Their link from this page http://www.ptg-global.com/products/get-it- right-the-first-time/get-it-right-the-first-time_home.cfm to the Certified Usable goes to the XPEyetrack page. If this is the most useable page from AIMIA members I wouldn't want them designing web pages for me. Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Announcing GrayBit v0.5 Beta
On 11/03/2006, at 8:41 AM, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: Hello All, I made all of the suggested changes to the GrayBit [1] page/ application -- downgrading to XHTML 1.0 Strict and correcting the font-size issue for IE (bugs passed along and added to the bug list) and I thank you for this. However, since I didn't hear from that many of you, I figured I'd continue this on one more time to solicit responses. Does an anyone have any additional feedback, good, bad, or otherwise? Thank you. Sincerely, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ http://accessites.org/ http://graybit.com/ [1] PS. To anyone that missed my original posting, I have included it below: - Original Message - [...] We just created a new tool and launched the beta interface [1]. It's a contrast accessibility tool of sorts, but different. It does some neat stuff. The best way to understand it is to just try it. Being it's in beta, we're keen on feedback. You can respond here or use our form [2]. We do know that it doesn't handle PNG transparencies as well as it could (in IE), and it will disable some site's javascripts (but still seems to serve its purpose all the same). It works on sites using CSS (hex code colors, color names, or RGB) but won't work well on older sites using tags'n'tables. But then again the people who make sites like that probably wouldn't have much interest in this anyway. The interface is new for me in a couple of ways. It's my first fluid site (I usually make fixed-width sites or jump right past fluid to elastic). It's also the first site I made to the XHTML 1.1 DTD. I'm sending it as application/xhtml+xml, but the browser is still processing the code as text/html (give me comments on this, please). It's also my first PHP-only site. I usually make PHP sites, but they have some PHP and some static mark-up. These pages are pure PHP, dynamic. First thing on the page is ?php and the last thing is ?. Nary a break in between. You should find it very accessible and very usable. I took three days on this interface crossing my ts and dotting my is. [...] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Is the submission form supposed to work? On both Firefox 1.5.0.1 and Safari 2.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.4.5 I end up with a blank screen when submitting my web site (dynamic using phpWebSite). The graybit.com page presented equally well in both Firefox and Safari - no differences or errors I could detect. Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] hr/hr tags
On 08/03/2006, at 8:02 PM, Nick Lazar wrote: Hi there, Can anyone tell me what the current state of play is with the hr/ hr tags XHTML? They seem to be the answer for a particular design I'm working on, and they don't appear to be marked for deprecation. Are there any compelling reasons not to use them? (Apart from them being empty tags). Thanks, Nick. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** The XHTML tags are hr /, the same as other tags like br / that don't have a closing tag. Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Ads breaking Compliancy
On 04/03/2006, at 4:12 AM, Brian Cummiskey wrote: I serve all kinds of various ads, be it adsense, ypn, custom ads, and other refferal style ads. The problem, is that they give you non-standards code, onMouseOver status bar changes, etc etc but you aren't allowed to change the code, for its against their TOS. Anyone have a workaround? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I was interested in your observation, so i signed up for Google Adsense (I'd been thinking about it for a while anyway), and included the code into my web site. As my site is generated using phpWebSite I actually placed the script into my template file but only allowing it to display on the home page. My home page (XHTML Transitional 1.0) went from zero errors warnings to 65 errors - all related to the Google Adsense frame generated from their JavaScript code. I decided to try the Google feedback form and received the following encouraging reply: Thank you for your email. We greatly appreciate your feedback about our code validating as XHTML 1.0 Transitional. Your comments provide us with the assistance we need to optimize our program, so please continue to give us feedback in the future. For additional questions, we suggest you visit our AdSense Support site at https://www.google.com/support/adsense . If you're unable to find an answer to your question on our site, please feel free to reply to this email. Sincerely, David The Google AdSense Team == Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] testing tips
On 03/03/2006, at 8:09 PM, Felix Miata wrote: On 06/03/03 02:27 Steve Olive apparently typed: Epiphany/Galeon which both use the Firefox rendering engine. There is no Firefox rendering engine. Epiphany, Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox, Galeon, K-Meleon, Mozilla, Netscape 6.x 7.x, SeaMonkey and others use the Mozilla/5.0 rendering engine, known by its developers and others as the Gecko rendering engine. Check your browser's UA string (about:), e.g. Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060124 Firefox/1.5.0.1. Firefox/1.5.0.1 for Linux en-US is a Gecko/20060124-based product. http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/faq.html#What%20is http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/gecko.html http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/ -- Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord. Psalm 119:11 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I was keeping it simple - they all use the same rendering engine. For the correct name: http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/gecko.html Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Display Issue Squash Request (pvdebeitel.com)
On 03/03/2006, at 9:44 PM, Rob Mientjes wrote: How about now? IE okay (I worry about IE a lot, as 95% of the audience will be using IE. And yes, I will put a pro-Firefox button in the backend)? -Rob** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Much more consistent across the browsers ;-) Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Display Issue Squash Request (pvdebeitel.com)
On 04/03/2006, at 10:41 AM, Rob Mientjes wrote: On 04/03/06, Steve Olive [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much more consistent across the browsers ;-) Is that good or bad? Your wink makes me wonder. It does look like font resizing allows for much more change than before, if you mean that. I played around with it. -Rob. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** All good. Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Display Issue Squash Request (pvdebeitel.com)
On 03/03/2006, at 2:31 AM, Rob Mientjes wrote: Hello dear all, http://www.pvdebeitel.com/ Yesterday marked the soft-launch of this website for an employees' community. I am asking for anyone who can spot bugs and anyone who can help me squash them. I've seen that IE6 drops the subsequent columns (on the front page), and I'll like help on that as well. As for accessibility, I'm still working on that, but any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance. -Rob. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Following coding errors: Line 13 - Empty span tags Line 60 - Unclosed img tag Line 89 - Unclosed img tag Problems with Verhalen Foto's Agenda text wrapping and dropping below nav bar from the top blue nav bar when screen resized/font size increased in Firefox 1.5, Opera 8.0.1 Safari 2.0.3 - but mostly in Safari only when applied to extremes. (Tested on Very clean simple site. Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] testing tips
On 03/03/2006, at 11:09 AM, Anja Kennedy wrote: Hi can anybody give me some tips regarding website testing? what browsers and versions to test in? which mac OS are required? and what model mac would be most suitable? thanks! Anja Testing can be done with Firefox Opera on all platforms - Windows, Mac OS X Linux. You then have some OS specific browsers - Windows = IE6, Mac OS X = Safari, Linux = Konqueror and/or Epiphany/Galeon which both use the Firefox rendering engine. Safari uses the khtml (Konqueror) rendering engine. All of these browsers are free so you can install Firefox Opera and your OS's default browser (IE - Safari) which gives you very good compatibility testing quickly. After downloading Firefox (http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/central/); don't forget to use the tools that are available with Firefox Extensions - IMHO every web developer should be using the following extensions when testing pages (or just normal browsing for that matter): 1. Web Developer - https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php? id=60application=firefox 2. HTML Validator - https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/ moreinfo.php?id=249application=firefox 3. TAW3 - https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php? id=1158application=firefox 4. View Rendered Source Chart - https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/ moreinfo.php?id=655application=firefox 5. View Formatted Source - https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/ moreinfo.php?id=697application=firefox These are just a few of the developer tools available but make validating HTML/XHTML and CSS quick and easy. The accessibility with TAW3 takes some getting used to ;-) Hope this helps! Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0407 224 251 Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Converting the heathen: never again
On 27/02/2006, at 7:39 PM, Absalom Media wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: What kind of person would rather insult the customer instead of admitting they have a problem? A bank ? I managed to get the standard filler text for a bank's customer service department in pointing out some issues on Firefox 1.5. The problem still isn't fixed either.. Lawrence -- Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media Mob: (04) 1047 9633 ABN: 49 286 495 792 http://www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I had a similar problem with a credit union and their Java powered interface - it would only work if you used Windows and the Microsoft VM. They did display a rather large Java logo whilst the applet was loading. I put in a polite complaint that their internet banking site wouldn't work when I was using Safari, Mozilla or Firefox from Mac OS X and/or Linux. The reply that I got was a lot less polite about the developer saying I should use a proper operating system and that Java wasn't designed to work across multiple operating systems or browsers. I replied that this was exactly what Java was designed to do and forwarded their e-mail to Sun Microsystems - and low and behold three weeks later the Java worked on all operating systems and browsers. ;-) Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Page veiwing
On 24/02/2006, at 5:29 PM, Lachlan Hunt wrote: SunUp wrote: I will certainly never go higher. I wouldn't say never, I expect that the minimum resolution of newer operating systems to increase from 800x600 to 1024x768 in the near future. It already went from 640x480 to 800x600 with WinXP (at least on devices that support it). This is even more so when actually working with Windows 2003 Server - the dialogue boxes used for configuration do not fit on 800 x 600 screen sizes. It is very hard to click on the OK buttons when they are not on the screen ;-) You can't even move the dialogue boxes upwards because the tool bar is off the top of the screen. Reader beware pony IMHO, this debate comes down to user's computer knowledge (and this is the teacher's fault not the user's), just because you use higher resolutions doesn't mean you have smaller text. There are default settings to change the font sizes to Large and Extra Large - in Windows, right click on the desktop, select Properties, select Appearance, then select the font size for the theme (bottom drop down list). (This should be close - sorry, I'm sitting at my G4 Mac with a 19 screen). This is something that very few people are taught, and I have taught computing at TAFE NSW for over seven years now. Everyone knows how to change the resolution, but in reality they only need to change the text size to have the best of both worlds - more information on the screen and smoother, larger text sizes. You can also do some very advanced tuning - setting minimum font sizes in your browser, e-mail client, etc to make life easier in front of a computer screen. And this doesn't even start with the accessibility features built into every operating system today. /pony ;-) Steve Olive Bathurst Computer Solutions Web: www.bathurstcomputers.com.au _ ... (0) ... / /\ .. / / .) .. V_/_ Linux Powered! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font Sizes - Best practice
Default font sizes also depend on the cultural background of the viewers/users. The default setting on Windows works out to be the same size as Times New Roman 10 pt when printed on Letter size paper. Australian's prefer default sizes of Times New Roman 12 pt when printed on A4 paper. I believe (preparing to be corrected quickly) that Europeans sizes are the same as the Australian default sizes. European type fonts (Nordic, etc) really need the larger 12 pt equivalent. I agree with Lachlan that designers with 19, 21, 20 Cinema Displays, etc do prefer smaller fonts that display well, especially on LCD screens at the smaller size but most users prefer font sizes to be similar to printed pages they are used too. This can change slightly with sans serif fonts as they are generally slightly larger when printed at the same point size. Sans serif fonts can also appear clearer on monitors because of the slightly larger than normal leading built into the font. So if you need to specify and design with font sizes different to the defaults I believe that you should make fonts no smaller than the 12 pt equivalent, unless using sans serif all caps or similar. User that need larger fonts or who have smaller monitors will then have no problem reading your web sites. I'll let you work out point to pixel to em sizes that appear similar. All this is just a suggestion and I have seen many effective web sites use small default text and large default text - it depends on the target audience. Regards, Steve On 20/02/2006, at 10:57 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote: Lachlan Hunt but lot's of people (mostly designers) who prefer smaller font-sizes. It's unfortunate that so many designers prefer small font sizes. They fail to realise that while they may think small fonts may look good from a design perspective and are easily readable on their massive, super-high resolution, 21 monitors, it actually looks really awful and is extremely difficult for many users to read. A far more fundamental group of people (which I already mentioned in my first email on this discussion) is of course that of the clients who pay for web design/development. Yes, we as developers can educate them, but when they see their competitor sites (and even big sites from the likes of IBM and co.) *all* setting a slightly smaller default font size, they expect the same on their site as well. A yes, but all those other sites are wrong and I do it the right way argument won't hold much weight in that situation, I'm afraid... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout
On 18/02/2006, at 4:09 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:Just a question: is it "xhtml 1.0 which may be served as xhtml and/orhtml" or "html with an xhtml DTD, lowercase and slashes, and served ashtml" you are recommending?I have no problems with the former since I use it all the time, but thelatter is what is found on most sites, and that's "no good" and shouldnot be recommended to anyone.The basics of what I have to say on the matter can be found here...http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_06_03.html...and that page is duplicated in several versions - valid and not -working and not - just to clarify what that is all about.The first, of course ;-)There's no such thing as 'XHTML 1.1 Strict', BTW.It is just 'XHTML 1.1', and it doesn't work in IE/win since that browserdoesn't understand what xhtml is all about, and 'XHTML 1.1' shall not beserved as 'html'.Sorry, I went back over my text and changed the 1.0 to 1.1 without taking the strict out :-$The problem with IE is that the XHTML MIME Type is "application/xhtml+xml" which no Microsoft products support properly. Until this is fixed I don't think we can move beyond XHTML 1.0. :-) pony belowI guess it's just a matter of trying to keep up the good ideals and getting more designers on board with XHTML served as XHTML HTML. I'm actually surprised how many tutorials I see that use HTML 4.01 in computer magazines in 2006. If we can't convince these people to code to XHTML 1.0 Transitional standards we have real problems.Regards,Steve
Re: [WSG] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout
I would recommend using the XHTML 1.0 Transitional DTD instead of HTML 4.01 - for the simple reason that there is a bit more tolerance for user-friendly options but you are following the XML standards of lower case tags and attributes, all tags being closed, preferably CSS for positioning but tables can be used when you just can't quite get that alignment, etcDo the validation of your web pages - Mozilla Firefox Extensions can help with this - and your pages can be easily updated to a XHTML 1.0 Strict DTD. You could even look at moving to XHTML 1.1 Strict DTD, or whatever the current standard has moved too, when you develop your skills and understanding.The Mozilla Firefox extensions (all under the developer section) I use to help with validation are: TAW3 View formatted source View Rendered Source Chart Web Developer HTML Validator (uses HTMLTidy)I recommend these to all the students I teach web design and I even give the students an XHTML template that uses CSS (embedded to keep it all together but that is easily converted to a linked CSS) to break the page up into Header, Horizontal Nav Bar, Left Nav Bar, Body, Right Ads Area and Footer. This template validates as XHTML 1.0 Transitional, Valid CSS and WAI. I can provide a link if you are interested John.SteveOn 18/02/2006, at 11:18 AM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:The choice of Transitional vs. Strict DTD doesn't affect tolerancetowards CSS - only html. A few less visitor-friendly and/or purelypresentational html elements are not accepted as part of Strict. Thehtml validator will tell you which ones...If you want a _just a little_ bit of tolerance, then just avoid using anxhtml DTD until you know the _whole_ difference between html and xhtml.That may take some time, so just use HTML 4.01 Strict for now, and makesure the source-code is all valid.
Re: [WSG] Web design education
Hi all, First post - I teach IT and support half of the computer network for the Arts IT section at Bathurst TAFE. We teach Web Design (as well as other courses like Digital Media and Client Support) and for the last five years have pushed for students to not only design using XHTML and CSS but to have assessments meet the standards for the different WAI levels. With pressure from teachers and the Head Teacher students have access to Internet Explorer, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera and Lynx. The last three years have seen hosting on LAMP servers so students are required to learn PHP and MySQL. The modules are the same as those used by all the other TAFE Campuses but our teachers are determined to produce students who know the standards and can design effective, artistic and meet the standards. We have been blocked by the IT Network support staff at higher levels but with pressure from staff and students the required applications have been installed because it is the teaching that is important. Keep up the pressure about standards compliance - it is important and will save businesses large sums of money (just ask Target USA). Regards, Steve On 14/02/2006, at 10:28 PM, Ric Raftis wrote: Your comments reminded me that I had neglected to mention something else regarding my TAFE experiences. Perhaps I should mention that I am 50 years of age and attended as a mature age student and not someone out of high school, however despite all amounts of agitating and lobbying, the Bendigo TAFE refused to provide access to Firefox or Opera or any other browser apart from IE. That was the only browser that you could use to access the outside world. You couldn't install or run your own versions locally, so consequently Firefox and the Web Developer Extension were not available to test your sites or ensure that code was valid. Maybe this will change in the future, but it has to come from the top. The thing that I found most amazing was that the IT people in charge of the networks had the say over the people delivering the courses. It was actually the network administrators that stymied the efforts of the lecturers by denying access to better browsers and tools. You would have thought that IT professionals would be far more aware of the benefits of using compliant browsers and be implementing these in our educational institutions. Regards, Ric Michael Nelson wrote: Ric Raftis wrote: It was interesting reading your post James because it seems that TAFEs across the country may vary widely despite courses supposedly being drawn from a national based syllabus and providing national accreditation. Related to this, I reckon one of the biggest problems causing a lack of standards in Web design education is a lack of collaboration. Each facilitator/lecturor is re-inventing the wheel with activities and resources largely due to IP restrictions within their workplace. In reality, many facilitators just end up re-using the same resources that's been used for the last 5 years because on their own they don't have time to update both their own skills and the resources they use. The ironic thing is that (nearly) all the best info on Web Design topics is being shared freely by professional designers on their blogs/sites! ... I mean, with excellent sites like http:// webdesignfromscratch.com/ and http://maxdesign.com.au/ published by professionals, what is the role of an educator? My take is that if lecturors and facilitators were able to collaboratively create and update flexible learning pathways from all the great free stuff out there, we'd be in a better position to help the uptake of standards in Web design education. (Plug) : 'cause of this, I've started setting up a WebDesign Wikibook over at: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Web_Design http://en.wikibooks.org/ wiki/Web_Design Really it's just ordering and grouping all the great resources out there created by you professionals into some sort of learning pathway with ideas for activities... Feel free to contribute :) -- Michael Nelson http://liveandletlearn.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
The easiest way to use HTMLTidy is from within the Firefox browser. Once installed have a look at the Extensions you can download to help with Web Design. I always add the following extensions: HTML Validator TAW3 - Test de Accesibilidad Web View formatted source View Rendered Source Chart Web Developer These are available for Windows. OS X and Linux versions of Firefox. The Web Developer and HTMLTidy extensions can review web pages and make/suggest the corrections needed for standards compliance. Regards, Steve On 15/02/2006, at 2:59 PM, Zulema wrote: Samuel/Ted/Jay, Wow! I will remember all this for the next time, since I do a lot of Word-to-HTML converting. The crazy thing about this one particular Word doc was that it wasn't in formatted bulleted lists because it was copy extracted from a PDF we got from the client as it seems they didn't have the original copy deck anymore I think. Oh well, live and learn. I'm going to find HTMLTidy (which I had but lost on hard drive replace last year) and look up HTML-Kit. I do usually copy/paste right into the design view in dreamweaver for simple stuff. It really does the trick sometimes, if no one's tried it. The writers here at work only work in Word because of the Track Changes feature. Makes it easy for everyone to know what's been changed. Thanks again and hugs to all, Zulema ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
