RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
On Tuesday, June 20 kahtychen wrote: [kahtychen...]Ok, I've got the jist of the Three Treasures, the Four Noble Truths, the Five Aggregates, and the Eightfold path, ... now, please, what are: The Two Vehicles? The Three Realms and their Nine Grounds? The Three or more Domains? The Three Natures, Modes of Knowledge, and States? The Five (or 51?) Universally Interactive Dharmas? The Five, Eight and/or Ten Precepts? The Eight Consciousnesses? Kahty (or Kathy?), I hope someone will answer you specifically and in detail describing each one of these categories and listing all the referred items explaining how the knowledge and application of each and every one of these will enrich your spiritual life. But, to borrow a phrase from Bob Dylan, 'That ain't me, babe'. I think of all of these are analogous to a paint-by-numbers paint set that comes with a pre-set amount of colors numbered (like 1 - 10); and has painting templates for you to paint with the shapes all drawn in and the white spaces numbered. All you have to do to is to apply the paint carefully inside the pre-drawn lines while religiously matching the numbers in the shapes with the numbers on the paints - and voila!, you'll have a pretty good painting - one of which you can be justly proud. But it's never going to be a masterpiece. Bottom line is these are all someone else's ideas and beliefs about what life is all about and how best to live it. This 'someone else' may be a very impressive person - like Siddhartha Buddha or at least one of his very close associates - and their ideas and beliefs may seem to have a very sound foundation and be very good advice, and may have reportedly worked very well for them and many others for a long, long time - but in the end they are someone else's template on how to live. These kinds of things are for people who have not discovered the source of the true guide of how to live life. That source is within you, not in a sutra. That source is called by many names: Buddha, Buddha Nature, Original Face, Shit-On-A-Stick, etc... The name doesn't matter, but the discovery of this source matters immensely. So, if you want to live your life well you can memorize all these Buddhist terms and follow all these Buddhist precepts, and you'll realize a pretty good life - one of which you can be justly proud. But it's never going to be a masterpiece. If you really want to live your life as a masterpiece you should consider not taking this 'paint-by-numbers' approach. You should seek the source. The only way, or at least most effective way, I know to do discover that source is zazen. Just sit. The source is there. It's always been there, it's there now and it always will be there. It's waiting for you. Just sit. ...Bill! P.S. 'Someday everything is going to be as smooth as a rhapsody, when I paint my masterpiece.' - Bob Dylan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/mDk17A/lOaOAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
On Monday, June 19, 2006 JasonZavoda wrote: [JasonZ...]Should I just jump in or was this directed toward just one person? Please feel free. This is an open forum and all are welcome at anytime. Thanks for your post...Bill! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/mDk17A/lOaOAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
Good morning Bill,Zen is the One True and not Two. It is the enforcer, enabler of all menifestations of the universe. It is in the domain of energy. Dharma is thereby always "transmitted" and not taught or ceremonialized.Knowledge about Zen, Buddhism, Dao, JMJM, are in the domain of our mind through our seven consciousness.These two domains do not intersect. (And our flesh is sadly in a third domain, which we have not even touched upon.)I share as "it is".No matter what I post, I can not make anyone to "sync" with the energy of Zen.Therefore I have not posted a single word worth anyone's effort to dive into it, disect, analyze, compare, agree or disagree. These are the activity for the domain of knowledge.May I add the following for the knowledge domain..Osho said, "Zen is the most beautiful thing. It is supreme mix of the essence of Dao and Buddhism."Dao Te Zin said, "Any descriptive Dao is not the Dao." While the third patriarch said, "The way is not hard, if we don't pick or choose."Allow me to repeat, all menifestions is due to Zen, whether we accept all or partial. Let us not be lost in the messages, but be in sync the carrier.Be Joyous,JMJMBill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday, June 17 donald hwong (JMJM) wrote: If so I disagree. So...I don't completely resonate with I don't like the pretentiousness of it.a definition is, I think, misleading. This is another 'I can live with that' statement. I don't completely disagree with what you've said, but I don't like the way Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. __._,_.___ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Zen Zen alarm clock Zen micro Zen touch Zen cart YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zen_Forum" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, donald hwong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good morning Bill, Zen is the One True and not Two. It is the enforcer, enabler of all menifestations of the universe. It is in the domain of energy. Dharma is thereby always transmitted and not taught or ceremonialized. Knowledge about Zen, Buddhism, Dao, JMJM, are in the domain of our mind through our seven consciousness. These two domains do not intersect. (And our flesh is sadly in a third domain, which we have not even touched upon.) I share as it is. No matter what I post, I can not make anyone to sync with the energy of Zen. Therefore I have not posted a single word worth anyone's effort to dive into it, disect, analyze, compare, agree or disagree. These are the activity for the domain of knowledge. May I add the following for the knowledge domain.. Osho said, Zen is the most beautiful thing. It is supreme mix of the essence of Dao and Buddhism. Dao Te Zin said, Any descriptive Dao is not the Dao. While the third patriarch said, The way is not hard, if we don't pick or choose. Allow me to repeat, all menifestions is due to Zen, whether we accept all or partial. Let us not be lost in the messages, but be in sync the carrier. Be Joyous, JMJM Hello Should I just jump in or was this directed toward just one person? I have found zen to be a slippery fish who is not easily caught. But who can say what can bring someone in synchronicity with the flow of things? A word, a thought, a thump on the head? Trying with all our might to catch zen may not work, but what a pleasure it is to enjoy the attempt. When we say that something is not zen, or not dao, aren't we picking and choosing, isn't that defining zen, trying to grip onto it by saying what it is not? Saying zen is not definitive, cannot be transmitted, is like saying zen cannot be the color orange or it cannot be the sound of chalk on a blackboard, or it cannot be a word like potato. Zen cannot be the taste of a cold apple on a hot day, it cannot be the feel of sand in the desert or the touch of mist near a waterfall. It cannot be the wings of a dragonfly half unseen as it flitters across a lawn or the breath we take for granted that keeps us alive. Zen simply cannot be, yet it is. Zen cannot be defined, yet it can. It cannot be under a rock, yet lifting a stone is a realization. Zen cannot be, yet it is music we all dance to, unrealized or with thought, or no-thought. There is a joy in finding, sometimes it is not a bad thing to be lost. Happy Anniversary, by the way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/mDk17A/lOaOAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
Good Morning Bill,Now we have a common ground, "Zen is the life force and wisdom of the universe." Therefore, it can not be described, defined, talked, communicated by words, nor can it be comprehend by mind. It can only be connected to it with our Buddha nature. Zen is the one, which menifest the entire universe both present and past. Every being, every occurance is its menifestation. As trees grow, as we live and die, this life force is always there. If we can be part of it, be one with it, then we instantly will know all menifestations of every moment is impermanent and relative. As we sit and focusing at the present moment, are we focusing on the relativity? Or are we trying to connect to the ONE? No self, no mind is only the first stage of "Purification", when we are connected, we reach the second stage of "Wisdom", then when we accomplish the third stage of "Consummation", we become Boddhisatva. Only when we are enlightened, then we are Buddha.No mind, so self is on the way to Buddha, but not quite there yet. It is a long struggle, but much more pleasant than just sitting and sitting and sitting. *smile*Let me know if you're ready to venture.JMJM is "Jue Miao Jing Ming" for short. It is my Dharma name given to me by my Master. I use it when I talk about Dharma. I am grateful of having such honor as well as the patience and understanding of this discussion group in reading my post.Namaste,JMJMBill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Donald...] The only "form that is real" is the life force of Zen. That is the carrier, the energy, the wave, the enabler, the under taker of all messages, perceptions, menifestation,. relative to the moment. I can live with that. [Donald...] State of "No self" is no different that of "false form". It is to help to block the mind, the head, the brain, the thinking,� the logic, the opinion, etc. so to reach emptiness or Nirvana.� After that enables the possibility of connecting or in sync with Zen, Buddha Nature or Inner Divine or enlightenment. I agree with the first part of the above statement, but not with the last. My objection is still with the word (words again!) 'connection'. Connection implies there are two or more separate entities. When you reach the state you (and I) described as 'no-mind' you realize that you ARE Buddha, that you ARE constantly manifesting Buddha Nature and in fact that you always have. No connection is required. Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. __._,_.___ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Zen Zen alarm clock Zen micro Zen touch Zen cart YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zen_Forum" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
On Friday, June 16 donald hwong wrote: Hey! A real posting! Thanks Donald. I'm in your debt. My high-speed response follows: With Palms together, With palms spread out over my keyboard, Zen is defined as the universal life force and wisdom. It emcompasses all. Zen is not definable. Any attempt to define it limits it. Best not to try. Once we had an opinion, we have foresaken the ones with opposite opinion. Then we are not in sync with Zen, we are in sync only with our mind. Having opinions does not mean you have 'foresaken' others. Opinions are fine. Placing values on opinions (such as good, bad, right, wrong) is where you start to get off on the wrong track. Karma of this world distributes, we can not remain purified, if we keep every effort to ourselves. Everyone is part of this life force of Zen, whether he/she is aware or not. Karma cannot 'distribute' or influence if there is no self which it can target or on which it can attach. When there is no-self there is no karma. No-self also cannot be assigned values like 'purified' or 'defiled'. What is it that is 'purified' or 'defiled'? There is a reason for everything, everyone, every event in this universe. The need for seeking reasons and justifications springs from a desire to understand; and a desire to understand comes from a need for the comfort and feeling of control that brings. No-self does not need to control or understand. No-self seeks no reasons. If you are connected, you need not to be afraid, because Zen dictates everything. It always provides, harmonizes and balances. No-self is not connected since there is no other-thing to which a connection can be formed. Zen does not dictate or provide. What is there that is lacking that needs to be dictated or provided? Harmonies and balances are values, and again are not applicable to no-self. A deep bowl to you all. A quick punch of the keyboard to send this on its high-speed way... Be Joyous. Ahhh! ...Bill! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lik1AB/fOaOAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
It is a relief that we have postings, so that Al will not worry about it. I guess I better continue... I sense the energy and fast fingers of Bill. It is positive. That is wonderful. Since so much is covered by him, we may want to start by focus on just some of the issues, so that we don't get lost in words, or attahched to words."Real Posting" is not real. No posting is real. All is relative to the moment.The only "form that is real" is the life force of Zen. That is the carrier, the energy, the wave, the enabler, the under taker of all messages, perceptions, menifestation,. relative to the moment. State of "No self" is no different that of "false form". It is to help to block the mind, the head, the brain, the thinking, the logic, the opinion, etc. so to reach emptiness or Nirvana. After that enables the possibility of connecting or in sync with Zen, Buddha Nature or Inner Divine or enlightenment."Opinions, karmas", like our mind, disturb the purity of our Inner self, blocking us from connecting to the universal energy and wisdom.How else do we integrate our body, mind and spirit to be ONE?Are we having fun now? :-)A big smile to you all,JMJMBill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday, June 16 donald hwong wrote: Hey! A real posting! Thanks Donald. I'm in your debt. My high-speed response follows: With Palms together, With palms spread out over my keyboard, Zen is defined as the universal life force and wisdom. It emcompasses all. Zen is not definable. Any attempt to define it limits it. Best not to try. Once we had an opinion, we have foresaken the ones with opposite opinion. Then we are not in sync with Zen, we are in sync only with our mind. Having opinions does not mean you have 'foresaken' others. Opinions are fine. Placing values on opinions (such as good, bad, right, wrong) is where you start to get off on the wrong track. Karma of this world distributes, we can not remain purified, if we keep every effort to ourselves. Everyone is part of this life force of Zen, whether he/she is aware or not. Karma cannot 'distribute' or influence if there is no self which it can target or on which it can attach. When there is no-self there is no karma. No-self also cannot be assigned values like 'purified' or 'defiled'. What is it that is 'purified' or 'defiled'? There is a reason for everything, everyone, every event in this universe. The need for seeking reasons and justifications springs from a desire to understand; and a desire to understand comes from a need for the comfort and feeling of control that brings. No-self does not need to control or understand. No-self seeks no reasons. If you are connected, you need not to be afraid, because Zen dictates everything. It always provides, harmonizes and balances. No-self is not connected since there is no other-thing to which a connection can be formed. Zen does not dictate or provide. What is there that is lacking that needs to be dictated or provided? Harmonies and balances are values, and again are not applicable to no-self. A deep bowl to you all. A quick punch of the keyboard to send this on its high-speed way... Be Joyous. Ahhh! ...Bill! Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much more to come. __._,_.___ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Zen Zen alarm clock Zen micro Zen touch Zen cart YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zen_Forum" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [Zen] 7th Anniversary of the Zen Forum
With Palms together,Zen is defined as the universal life force and wisdom. It emcompasses all. Once we had an opinion, we have foresaken the ones with opposite opinion. Then we are not in sync with Zen, we are in sync only with our mind.Karma of this world distributes, we can not remain purified, if we keep every effort to ourselves. Everyone is part of this life force of Zen, whether he/she is aware or not.There is a reason for everything, everyone, every event in this universe.If you are connected, you need not to be afraid, because Zen dictates everything. It always provides, harmonizes and balances.A deep bowl to you all.Be Joyous.Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In July, it will be seven years since I began the Zen Forum. What have I learned in those seven years? The people that have deep insights and a well-developed personality don't need to be here. The people that lack those qualities don't learn anything from being passive participants on an internet list. Best wishes, Al __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __._,_.___ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Zen Zen alarm clock Zen micro Zen touch Zen cart YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Zen_Forum" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
