Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On 10/24/12 03:16, Edward Ned Harvey (opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensolaris) wrote: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Karl Wagner The only thing I think Oracle should have done differently is to allow either a downgrade or creating a send stream in a lower version (reformatting the data where necessary, and disabling features which weren't present). However, this would not be a simple addition, and it is probably not worth it for Oracle's intended customers. So you have a backup server in production, that has storage and does a zfs send to removable media, on periodic basis. (I know I do.) So you buy a new server, and it comes with a new version of zfs. Now you can't backup your new server. So in this case you should have a) created the pool with a version that matches the pool version of the backup server and b) make sure you create the ZFS file systems with a version that is supposed by the backup server. zpool create -o version= zfs create -o version= ZFS has the functionality but it can't guess as to what the intended usage is so the default behaviour is to create pools and versions using the highest version supported by the running software. -- Darren J Moffat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On 10/24/12 3:59 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote: So in this case you should have a) created the pool with a version that matches the pool version of the backup server and b) make sure you create the ZFS file systems with a version that is supposed by the backup server. And AI allows you to set the rpool version how, exactly? *crickets* -- Carson ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On 10/24/12 17:44, Carson Gaspar wrote: On 10/24/12 3:59 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote: So in this case you should have a) created the pool with a version that matches the pool version of the backup server and b) make sure you create the ZFS file systems with a version that is supposed by the backup server. And AI allows you to set the rpool version how, exactly? I haven't personally tried this but I believe it should be possible since you can set other pool options at install time eg: pool_options option name=version value=28 / pool_options similarly for datasets that your AI manifest creates for you: dataset_options option name=version value=4 / dataset_options See /usr/share/install/target.dtd.1 -- Darren J Moffat ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com] At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? No attempt at backward compatibility, and no downgrade path, not even by going back to an older snapshot before the upgrade. ZFS has a stellar record of backwards compatibility. The only break with backwards compatibility I can recall was a bug fix in the send stream somewhere around opensolaris b34. Perhaps you are confusing backwards compatibility with forwards compatibility? Semantics. New version isn't compatible with old version, or old version isn't compatible with new version. Either way, same end result. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
Actually, I think there is a world of difference. Backwards compatibility is something we all need. We need to be able to access content created in previous versions of software in newer versions. You cannot expect an older version to be compatible with the new features in a later version. Those features did not exist when the software was written. You wouldn't expect to be able to open a document created in the latest version of MS Word (and saved in the latest format) in Word 95, would you? The only thing I think Oracle should have done differently is to allow either a downgrade or creating a send stream in a lower version (reformatting the data where necessary, and disabling features which weren't present). However, this would not be a simple addition, and it is probably not worth it for Oracle's intended customers. On 2012-10-23 14:01, Edward Ned Harvey (opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensolaris) wrote: From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com [1]] At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? No attempt at backward compatibility, and no downgrade path, not even by going back to an older snapshot before the upgrade. ZFS has a stellar record of backwards compatibility. The only break with backwards compatibility I can recall was a bug fix in the send stream somewhere around opensolaris b34. Perhaps you are confusing backwards compatibility with forwards compatibility? Semantics. New version isn't compatible with old version, or old version isn't compatible with new version. Either way, same end result. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org [2] http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss [3] Links: -- [1] mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com [2] mailto:zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org [3] http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Karl Wagner The only thing I think Oracle should have done differently is to allow either a downgrade or creating a send stream in a lower version (reformatting the data where necessary, and disabling features which weren't present). However, this would not be a simple addition, and it is probably not worth it for Oracle's intended customers. So you have a backup server in production, that has storage and does a zfs send to removable media, on periodic basis. (I know I do.) So you buy a new server, and it comes with a new version of zfs. Now you can't backup your new server. Or maybe you upgrade some other machine, and now you can't back *it* up. The ability to either downgrade a pool, or send a stream that's compatible with an older version seems pretty obvious, as a missing feature. I will comment on the irony, that right now, there's another thread on this list seeing a lot of attention, regarding how to receive a 'zfs send' data stream on non-ZFS systems. But there is no discussion about receiving on older zfs systems. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On Oct 19, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Edward Ned Harvey (opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensolaris) opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensola...@nedharvey.com wrote: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? No attempt at backward compatibility, and no downgrade path, not even by going back to an older snapshot before the upgrade. ZFS has a stellar record of backwards compatibility. The only break with backwards compatibility I can recall was a bug fix in the send stream somewhere around opensolaris b34. Perhaps you are confusing backwards compatibility with forwards compatibility? -- richard -- richard.ell...@richardelling.com +1-760-896-4422 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
2012-10-20 3:59, Edward Ned Harvey (opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensolaris) пишет: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? No attempt at backward compatibility, and no downgrade path, not even by going back to an older snapshot before the upgrade. The way I understood feature flags, if your pool or dataset does not have a feature enabled and/or used, another version of ZFS should have no problem at least reading it properly, at least those builds that know of the feature-flags concept. (Maybe the versions limited to v28 would refuse to access a v5000 pool though). Things written in an unknown on-disk format, be it some unknown feature or an encrypted Solaris 11 dataset, seem like trash to the uneducated reader - nothing new here (except that with FF you can know in advance what particular features are used on this dataset, that your system is missing for RO or RW access). Hopefully, modules with new ZFS features are also easier to distribute and include onto other systems as needed. HTH, //Jim Klimov ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Ian Collins You have to create pools/filesystems with the older versions used by the destination machine. Apparently zpool create -d -o version=28 you might want to do on the new system... (I just wrote 28, but make sure it matches the latest version supported by your receiving system.) You might have to do something similar to use an older ZFS version too. And then you should be able to send from the new to the old system. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On Oct 19, 2012, at 1:04 AM, Michel Jansens michel.jans...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 10/18/12 21:09, Michel Jansens wrote: Hi, I've been using a Solaris 10 update 9 machine for some time to replicate filesystems from different servers through zfs send|ssh zfs receive. This was done to store disaster recovery pools. The DR zpools are made from sparse files (to allow for easy/efficient backup to tape). Now I've installed a Solaris 11 machine and a SmartOS one. When I try to replicate the pools from those machines, I get an error because filesystem/pool version don't support some features/properties on the solaris 10u9. Is there a way (apart from rsync) to send a snapshot from a newer zpool to an older one? You have to create pools/filesystems with the older versions used by the destination machine. Thanks Ian, One thing that is annoying though with running old pool version on Solaris is that zpool status -x doesn't return 'all pools are healthy'. And I wonder how SmartOS or Solaris 11 will react with Solaris 10 update 9 version filesystem for zones or KVM... Also hearing about the new feature flags, I have a feeling that there is a risk of ZFS world being more and more fragmented. Feature flags offers a sane method to deal with the existing fragmentation. Everyone will have it, except Oracle Solaris. At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? In that fragmented world, some common exchange (replication) format would be reassuring. In this respect, I suppose Arne Jansen's zfs fits-send portable streams is good news, though it's write only (to BTRFS), And it looks like a filesystem only feature (not for volumes) FITS is interesting for those file systems that support snapshots. If the market demands, there could be some interesting work done for interop with ReFS and others. -- richard -- richard.ell...@richardelling.com +1-760-896-4422 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling At some point, people will bitterly regret some zpool upgrade with no way back. uhm... and how is that different than anything else in the software world? No attempt at backward compatibility, and no downgrade path, not even by going back to an older snapshot before the upgrade. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs send to older version
On 10/18/12 21:09, Michel Jansens wrote: Hi, I've been using a Solaris 10 update 9 machine for some time to replicate filesystems from different servers through zfs send|ssh zfs receive. This was done to store disaster recovery pools. The DR zpools are made from sparse files (to allow for easy/efficient backup to tape). Now I've installed a Solaris 11 machine and a SmartOS one. When I try to replicate the pools from those machines, I get an error because filesystem/pool version don't support some features/properties on the solaris 10u9. Is there a way (apart from rsync) to send a snapshot from a newer zpool to an older one? You have to create pools/filesystems with the older versions used by the destination machine. -- Ian. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
