Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Robin Becker wrote: ... I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed. well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS tree? -- Robin Becker ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Robin Becker wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Robin Becker wrote: ... I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed. well I think I read about them in the recently released beta, not how they work, but I didn't pluck the name out of thin air. Ah you are correct, I just removed the references to them. I thought they were purged when we removed the xml chapter. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel I'm using the CVS checkout of Zope2, where are python methods in the CVS tree? I'm not sure, I suspect you would ahve to check them out of a branch, and I don't know how to do that from the public CVS. I'll make some inquiries. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Fred Yankowski wrote: I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF. A valid point. I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to the authors/copyeditors efficiently. A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments, maybe?). The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends. Cheers, Jan ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta / inserting anchors into the official HTML?
Simon Coles wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. If you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (you have to pay for it, as opposed to the free Reader) you can "Capture" web pages into a PDF. I created a PDF of the Zope Book beta to read on the train today. PDFs created in this way are full text searchable :-) Well, that is not exactly the point - anybody can use, e.g., htmldoc (a very fine tool from www.easysw.com, which is not a big moneydrain as Adobe distiller is). The point in favor of a semi-official draft copy PDF is that it gives us a common reference frame for reviews and feedback. The PDF would mean everybody has the same page and line numbers, while HTML has no such concept. Hmmm. It would be pretty easy to cook up a script to number all the P tags and include that number in the HTML as comments or, even better, anchors so you can directly link to a paragraph). Of course this makes sense only if it is done consistently, i.e., at the source. That would certainly be fine with O'Reilly. Cheers, Jan ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jan H. Haul [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Fred Yankowski wrote: I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF. A valid point. I do not care about the format that much. But what I care about is a clear method of referencing the text, to the line or paragraph level, so that we can get comments and corrections to the authors/copyeditors efficiently. A PDF *with page and line numbers* would fit the bill nicely. As would a HTML file with paragraph numbers (as HTML comments, maybe?). The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends. Cheers, Jan I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. It mentions stuff such as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an official zope. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? -- Robin Becker ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
"Jan H. Haul" wrote: The point is that we should be able to give meaningful feedback, like "page 147, line 15: there should be their" (a totally made-up example, do not go hunting for that one). It just does not do to quote full sentences and have the copyeditor search for all that stuff. Too much wasted time on both ends. Jan, We have very little experience in documentation delivery and maintenance. It's sad but true. We are however working to resolve the problem. Please take a look at the documentation process wiki, where we have a section for discussing delivery issues: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage Look under 'CurrentIssues'. Please place any suggestions or ideas you have there. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Robin Becker wrote: I agree about the numbering, but even more I would like to know which version of Zope the book is supposed to be about. When it hits the shelves, it will be about 2.3. After that, we will maintain the book to be in sync with the current release according to the as-yet-unofficial documentation development process: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/DocumentationProcess/FrontPage It mentions stuff such as XSLT methods, perl methods and python methods none of which are in an official zope. I belive all reference to xslt methods has been removed. Python methods will be part of the 2.3 release, and Perl methods are mentioned in the book as being a component add on that must be installed. So is there an alpha of this future zope that we could use to check the book? Check out Zope and Python Methods from CVS. Perl Methods can be downloaded from the Perl wiki on (I believe) dev.zope.org. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Amos Latteier wrote: Chris Withers wrote: There a PDF of it anywhere? Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable *grumble* Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
- Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny. Most will want to see the book sales thrive, so that Zope grows and gets the wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing Zope projects. For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is a trivial price to pay. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Peer review now by skilled expert readers is huge advantage to be tapped. No matter how good OReilly are as publishers, I doubt they have many Zope experts in-house at ORA... Because there are not yet that many in the world! Most people are too busy anyway to be of much help. Anyone who wants to help adn has the ability to do so should be engaged now not deterred. Everyone will benefit if you act quickly now. Final stages of proofreading and tweaking are time consuming adn take many hands and many heads to get right. When done thoroughly this is the difference which makes a difference, especially for technical books. Look at how much hideous fast junk is out there in bookstores now. Look at how many books are a waste of paper and time and money, simply because they were not properly checked and tuned. good luck and best wishes - Jason ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
"Jason Cunliffe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' I like this suggestion. There are three of us (ranging from novice to pretty experienced) here that were planning to print out copies of PDF and go over them at home, none of us has the time to sit at work and read/review the whole thing on a web browser. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. I hope there is no hesitation over making a PDF version available because of fear it will cut into sales of the bound volume. I think it would be just the opposite. I can easily think of examples (the original Tcl/Tk book comes first to mind) where the printed copy closed the sale of the bound volume for me. I'll be purchasing multiple copies of the Zope book for my shop regardless. (I tried to no avail to do a pre-order from OReilly's set yesterday :) Getting a chance to proof an early version and perhaps contribute to making it better only increases my desire to purchase the eventual publication. -- Tim Lynch Information Technology Section A. R. Mann Library Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 607.255.9570 "Jason Cunliffe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' I like this suggestion. There are three of us (ranging from novice to pretty experienced) here that were planning to print out copies of PDF and go over them at home, none of us has the time to sit at work and read/review the whole thing on a web browser. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. If you have the full version of Adobe Acrobat (you have to pay for it, as opposed to the free Reader) you can "Capture" web pages into a PDF. I created a PDF of the Zope Book beta to read on the train today. PDFs created in this way are full text searchable :-) From what people are saying I don't think I can redistribute the PDF I have created :-( However, if you have Acrobat, you can make one yourself :-) BTW the book was very useful, I'll be recommending it when it comes out Simon -- - My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs -- Simon J. Coles Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Information Paradigms Work Phone: +44 1344 753703 http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax: +44 1344 753742 === Life is too precious to take seriously === ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Fred Yankowski wrote: I agree completely that the Zope Book beta will get more reviewers, and better feedback to the authors, if it is available as PDF. I agree, but this is completely out of our hands and we must focus more on content issues at this point then distribution issues. All of these problems will get solved in the comming months, they just won't get solved today. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Tim Lynch wrote: I wholeheartedly agree with Jason and Chris. I would very much appreciate a PDF version that could be easily printed, or read with Adobe's Reader. I hope there is no hesitation over making a PDF version available because of fear it will cut into sales of the bound volume. I think it would be just the opposite. I can easily think of examples (the original Tcl/Tk book comes first to mind) where the printed copy closed the sale of the bound volume for me. I do not know what the reasons is. I do know that when the book hits the shelf, it will go under an open content license and we will be free to distribute it in a myriad of flavors and you will have the freedom to do with it what you please (according to the license). I'll be purchasing multiple copies of the Zope book for my shop regardless. Thanks. ;) -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Jason Cunliffe wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. Kinda tough to check out/read/find mistakes in a book that's only available as a set of html pages that aren't full text searchable This is a really good point. Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the book and other documentation efforts. With the existing setup, we don't have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir the shit with O'Reilly. The number of people who are likely to 'bootleg' the Zope book must be tiny. I agree, and honestly, Amos and I don't care about the bootlegging or book sales revenue. It is also not our job to enforce the rules; I would chuckle to hear about people 'bootlegging' ilicit PDF copies of the book. Most will want to see the book sales thrive, Yeah, NY Times bestseller list!!! so that Zope grows and gets the wider recognition it deserves.And to save time and money when developing Zope projects. For such sophisticated 'free' software, a well written, well edited book is a trivial price to pay. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final copy is. Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy. ;) If we open content it now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs name on the cover, but they don't get any money. I feel your pain on all issues. A couple more months and this will all go away. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
- Original Message - From: Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as open source benefits from real-time peer review, so do manuscripts get better when fresh eyes and minds and go over them. How about 'releasing' a PDF / HTML Doc with header/footers clearly marked: 'Preview Review copy for Copy-Editing use only. Not for general public or commercial distribution' This is a good idea and probably a good compromise, but this would require us taking the time to negotiate it with O'Reilly and engineer a stx-pdf converter and pre-empt alot of work we have lined up for the book and other documentation efforts. With the existing setup, we don't have to worry about this for a couple months and we don't have to stir the shit with O'Reilly. This is truly nuts... Sounds a like you guys are tired and just want it done and printed now. So please just let us know whom we should contact directly at OReilly. This really is not 'stiring the shit'. Publishing staff are always over worked especially copy-editors. They will appreciate some timely comments, from some [free] Zope experts to help them get their work done quicker and better. Hell, they can even use it on the blurb to help sell the book and get some nice 'OpenSource reaches the Book Publishing World'-type reviews !! I find it hard to believe given the significant role OReilly have in openSource, Python etc that they would not be happy to embrace a __tiny__ experiment in this direction. The issue is how to get the best final copy to the printer in timely manner. Well... from your perspective (and ours) but from O'Reilly's I think they're woried about *who* the first person to print that best final copy is. Those are the people they are worried about bootlegging the book, not you, they _know_ you'll buy a copy. ;) If we open content it now, someone could beat ORA to the shelves by a week and undercut a sizable percentage of sales and all they would ahve to do is put ORAs name on the cover, but they don't get any money. I feel your pain on all issues. A couple more months and this will all go away. A couple of months from now is exactly when the pain will be felt! You open the book and go ooops! damn how'd we miss that one..? Then the reviews come and say "Been really looking forwards to this milestone book for a long time. It is well written by two members of the core Zope team but unfortunately" Please don't confuse controlled easy accesss for willing proofreaders, with public licensing and e-distribution models. Those CAN be sorted out later. Just as employees and freelancers working for Publishers have access to manuscripts, so should and can designated members of the Zope community. These are not annonymous strangers. I have been reading and printing out various chapters of the book from http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/ over the past month. Then saved out a bunch of the HTML files and printed to PDF. Took 'em round the corner for cheap fast b+ printout and had comb binding put on then. It was worth the $15 for print+binding just to be able to scan on planes and while I was travelling. It already gave me a much better feeling and understnding of Zope :-) - Jason ___ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. [...] Great! For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. -- o ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] (+49 2241) 14-2394 /\* GMD mbH #include _`\ `_=== Schloss Birlinghoven, std.disclaimer __(_)/_(_)___.-._ 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] AW: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Thanks! Pretty neat thing :-) I like the ducks: a-hi-ru. "Kore wa desu? Ahiru desu." It must have been something like that... p@ -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von Wolfgang Strobl Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Oktober 2000 10:58 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. [...] Great! For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. -- o ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] (+49 2241) 14-2394 /\* GMD mbH #include _`\ `_=== Schloss Birlinghoven, std.disclaimer __(_)/_(_)___.-._ 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
There a PDF of it anywhere? cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. By the end of the day. Phil - Original Message - From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta There a PDF of it anywhere? cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Phil Harris wrote: Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. By the end of the day. Phil Hi Phil, how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab? Kapil - Original Message - From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta There a PDF of it anywhere? cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Nah, I use the offical stuff , Adobe Distiller. For the eBook stuff I use a Microsoft Word Add-in, available from www.pocketpc.com (really microsoft under a pseudonym) hth Phil - Original Message - From: "Ender" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Phil Harris" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta | Phil Harris wrote: | | Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. | | By the end of the day. | | Phil | | Hi Phil, | | how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab? | | Kapil | | | - Original Message - | From: "Chris Withers" [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM | Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta | | There a PDF of it anywhere? | | cheers, | | Chris | | Michel Pelletier wrote: | |Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the |Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with |all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). |Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is |missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, |and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, |corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much |better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as |christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at |http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. | |Enjoy, | |-Michel | |___ |Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope |** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** |(Related lists - | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) | | ___ | Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | (Related lists - |http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce |http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) | | ___ | Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | (Related lists - | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. [...] Great! For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. I'll recheck with them. Take a look at the copyright stuff info on each page. Luckily the book will soon be under an open content license, and then you'll be free to do what ever you wish. Thanks for taking a look at the book! -Amos -- Amos Latteier mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. It's gone. I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? Take a look at the copyright stuff info on each page. didn't restribute it, I uploaded the same content in a different format to the very same site I got it from: www.zope.org. -- Wolfgang Strobl ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Chris Withers wrote: There a PDF of it anywhere? Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. As soon as the book is published it will go under an open content license and we'll make PDF, and probably other formats available. At that time you'll also be able to convert the book to whatever formats you want and redistribute it as you wish. Thanks for your patience. -Amos -- Amos Latteier mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michel Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ... wonderful, but the stuff on Python methods seems to refer to features which are certainly not in 2.2.2 and apparently not in CVS. Indeed CVS Zope2 doesn't seem to contain any Python method product! Indeed we will apparently soon be able to create XSLT methods! Which potential Zope does the book address? -- Robin Becker ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. It's gone. I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? That was a joke. Sorry. -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Chris Withers wrote: There a PDF of it anywhere? No, we won't produce one until the book goes to an open content license when it hits the shelf. -Michel cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
Hello Congratulations on getting the book to this stage!! It is very readable and I hope it is well promoted, and well received. One obvious presentation improvement I suggest is that you make ALL zope code references in the same typographic style. For example throughout most of the text you sensibly have DTML and Python examples in courier or equivalent. But in the Appendices, for example http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html under sections marked 'Attributes', there is not a clear consistent distinction: encode=string MIME Content-Transfer-Encoding header, defaults to base64. Valid encoding options include base64, quoted-printable, uuencode, x-uuencode, uue, x-uue, and 7bit. If the encode attribute is set to 7bit no encoding is done on the block and the data is assumed to be in a valid MIME format. "encode=string" should display in courier also like all examples. And if possible put one extra line space after each Attribute description before the next entry. Thought this takes up a little more space, it is white space well used adn really helps one to find and absorb this crucial content better. An editorial suggestion I would make is that in the Appendices, MORE examples would be BETTER and clearer definitions and examples of the attributes arguments would really help too. Even a single one or two-line example after each 'Attributes section would be a godsend. I imagine there are lots of juicy examples in the archives. For example check sendmail, mailhost ="mailhostnamegoeshere" Also there is no mention about the sendmail quirkiness of formatting, needing space after the subject: line This is a FAQ and surely belongs in the appendix of the only Zope book. Are there others? In general for the Appendices, please check that explicitly it is clear and consistent when and if anything is returned, and when and how arguments are needed. You all know, and take all this for granted no doubt, but others truly don't. The API aspect is one that holds so many people back and so many questions about real-world use. Copious well placed examples go a long way. I know how hard it is use to make a book and how many endless fiddly time-consuming tasks there are. But it really is worth getting this right. I work for 10 years in the design and production side of book publishing. Ditto the index. I hope you push to make sure your editorial team at OReilly are really behind you on helping to produce a great index and will sweat all the details and typographic minutiae which do matter so much when you hold the final result. A classic example is 'Lingo in a Nutshell' [ORA] which has very detailed examples and excellent tables and appendices, but was marred by a cheap fast shallow index. It was author Bruce Epstein's painful learning curve. It is still the definitive LINGO book, but widely criticized for lack of serious index. Bruce later added stuff online and vowed to fix it in the next edition. As I recall from his post to the Direct-L mailing list, he said that he had not been personally very involved in the index, and as an exhausted and tired new author, he had not reckoned on what could go wrong, nor how important the index is to a static printed paper book. Very different from the dynamic online world where a few searches on google or wherever will get a handy reference, backed up by a post to xyz-mailinglist. Best wishes - Jason Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'].DesignDirector ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: That was a joke. Sorry. Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect bounded book back within half an hour. On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly integrated online format might even might help selling the book. For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual howto-collection, and I'm using them both. -- Wolfgang Strobl ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
At 10/31/00 11:08 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual howto-collection, and I'm using them both. Wolfgang - How about putting up your HTML help version of the howto-collection? That would be very cool. Thanks! -- Dennis Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: That was a joke. Sorry. Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect bounded book back within half an hour. On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly integrated online format might even might help selling the book. I certainly can't speak for O'Rielly, but I can take a guess at their logic. It goes something like this: If people begin reproducing copies of the book, in PDF, HTML Help, whatever form, and distributing it, they will soon be all over the net. It is not in its finished form. It may have misspellings, or technical errors that will (hopefully) be corrected before publication. When the final version comes out, will they be able to guarantee that all old copies of the book are updated with the final version? If someone downloads a copy with a lot of errors, and gets a bad impression of the book, is that fair to O'Reilly, given that it was not the final version they were looking at? If we simply wait until its final before reproducing it, this becomes much easier to manage. At least, that's my $0.02. Wolfgang Strobl --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/ ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Zope Book Beta
Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
