sorry, not sure if this got through first time, v late i know
-Original Message-
From: Williams, Howard
Sent: 06 December 2000 14:00
To: 'darw_n'; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [313] err...
the 'point' is that mahler expresses himself one way, hawtin (for example)
another
Jonny McIntosh wrote:
I reckon your wrong, too. And the above, I think, is the problem. The is
is just what you get given to you, e.g. Beethoven's 9th is, even in essence,
Beethoven's entire 9th. What you try and do is distill it into something
purer and more minimal. The terminology is
@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:56:16 -0500
Fred- Are you buying it?
I got in a rather lengthy discussion over a few beers this past weekend on
this topic. Admittedly, I have more than just a slight buzz going at the
time but..After about an hour or so discussing
i just wish these guys would stop blowing up my mailbox... hehe
take care,
Mike
np: Heiko Laux-Live at Fuse Pt. 1
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err... darw_n's brain is too big
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:31:59 EST
In a message dated 12/6
: Re: [313] err...
SNIP
As for the music I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
is possible for these artforms to be co-opted. I haven't come up with
anything more than a vague theory as to WHY (if anyone has
imitating Bobby DeNiro from Analyze Me:
Youyouyou're good!!!
=)
g l y p h
In a message dated 12/7/00 10:16:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
themselves in a future that was
What about rock then? Do Fugazi, The Beatles and Manowar share an
agenda?
Bravo!!! That is a great rebuttal!!! The motive for rock-n-roll as we see
it today was based on both economic and labor issues in America. As some of
the creators of rock, they were almost children of the gospel
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 07:17:28PM -0600, Chris Ege wrote:
What about rock then? Do Fugazi, The Beatles and Manowar share an
agenda?
!bigup citing manowar in a 313 argument
Of course you know that was done specifically for you. :)
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
organisation, not the sponsors. The AMA most likely decides the nominees
based on sales and publicity etc. and
I think that was a Honda comercial that had the raver types
but anyone breathing today would have to be either blind and deaf, a media
hermit, or clueless to have not been exposed to images of ravers or
electronic dance music of one genre or another being used in whatever media
format. So it's
Re:
FORD COULD CARE LESS ABOUT TECHNO! THEY JUST WANT TO SELL CARS! that's the
bottom line.
AMEN BROTHER! Please believe that everyone! Don't think that they are
friendly to techno music anymore than they are friendly to countrywestern
New Age music. What they are most friendly to is a guy
In a message dated 12/6/00 4:35:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i believe the common goal of techno is to create music that hasn't been
heard before.
i've heard plenty of artists say the same thing most notably juan atkins
and
jeff mills.
is this not enough of a unifying definition and a common
the Ford Focus DEMF Edition :).
Ryan Heard
-Original Message-
From: FRED MCMURRY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:57 AM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [313] err...
snip
The only award I think most techno artists would accept would be one voted
--- Steven White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What we know and what they miss is so simple: all
that has to happen is for people
to hear the music with an open mind.
Word.
-Dave-
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores.
darwin's ancestor in a primordial soup bid suggested:
could go on and on. So invite someone to say, the techno movement has
___. fill in the blank.
the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
techno, geeez it's just music!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
No, I am not saticfied with that, it would imply that we are
pretty boring
and lazy. No, there is causation for everything, things just
don't happen
for the hell of
--- darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how is it
possible to ruin *real* techno??
what would be ruined?
When Basement Jaxx were high up in the charts and I
was telling ppl I was spinning house... Ppl expected
cheesiness of that variety. This is how techno could
be ruined, wannabes that make
--- darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n
wrote:
since I have yet to hear a real stance from
techno
UR?
sure, but I can point to many many groups within the
techno scene who have
entirely polar opposite views, UR's is simply
Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
techno, geeez it's just music!!!
mmm h, riggght...
darw_n
create, demonstrate, toneshift...
http://www.mp3.com/stations/clevelandunderground
http://www.mp3.com/darw_n
At least with politics, you get PAID to talk just to hear the sound of your
own voice.
--On Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:30 AM -0800 darw_n
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Go into politics instead of boring us with pointless discussions about
techno, geeez it's just music!!!
mmm h,
darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
present.
*cue mental image of Belleville*
LOL!
and indeed, this is the same sentiment that has permeated all of rave
Which contradicts your theory of the techno movement having no unifying
principles So which one is it?
Yes your right, I just confused my whole statement, lemme clarify that...
Techno doesn't have a *defined* message, something that most (if not all)
past movements had...
Instead,
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
the techno movement arose from the youth of detroit seeking to locate
themselves in a future that was different from the urban decay of the
present.
*cue mental image of Belleville*
LOL!
Yeah, maybe better
Talking with darw_n makes my brain hurt a wee bit, but here goes...
See, I just can't let something be like that, I want, no need, to know
what
that is is...
I reckon your wrong, too. And the above, I think, is the problem. The is
is just what you get given to you, e.g. Beethoven's 9th is,
darw_n wrote:
Techno doesn't have a *defined* message, something that most (if not all)
past movements had...
You did make the case for punk, but even so I can't really agree with
this, although that may be because the terms message and movements are
too vague in this context. For instance,
-Original Message-
From: Kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Otto Koppius [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org
Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Otto Koppius wrote:
darw_n and mee-thod wrote:
the techno
Darwin said:
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all
stand
united, none at all.
Someone else replied:
What artistic, social or political movement ever has? None.
Darwin said:
fine rebuttal, but there *was* a general underlying common drive. Every
youth
Fred- Are you buying it?
I got in a rather lengthy discussion over a few beers this past weekend on
this topic. Admittedly, I have more than just a slight buzz going at the
time but..After about an hour or so discussing the ford focus commerical
I came to the following conclusion:
1.)Hooray
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its members on
this issue for a project that I'm working on.
Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
When I say this I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
and advertising industries and America in general
http://www.mp3.com/darw_n
http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html
http://www.mannequinodd.com
- Original Message -
From: Hugh G. Blaze [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err
hi
What i want to know is who nominates these techno
artists, is it sale based?
The beat of a new generation. The music of the new
millennium.
Let your voice be heard!
Vote in the first-ever Techno category, brought to you
by Ford Focus.
As far as i can see all these bands r bassicly
electronic
Perhaps a better question might bedoes this ruin the ability of
PERFORMERS to accumulate the fruits of their labor. Does Moby's presence
on the SciFi channel proclaiming I am SciFi in a commercial affect the
ability of May, Atkins, Craig, and others to put their music out
there...and to be
I would guess, not much. As Nader joked, ... however I _do_ think that
Gore lost _me_ the election. The true techno artists might get a little
more money if it were not for the likes of these electronica artists.
But, if it were not for them, would there be a all new techno catagory
brought to
Techno and House are
very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
is possible for these artforms to be co-opted. I haven't come up with
anything more than a vague theory as to WHY (if anyone has I'd be
interested in seeing it)..
simple, techno is generally
In a message dated 12/5/00 6:12:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When I say this I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
and advertising industries and America in general still remains clueless
as
to who the artists are that we are interested in, the music that we actually
In a message dated 12/5/00 7:19:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
but I just know that we won't see Sony
perverting the artform. It is what it isand I don't think it can be
changed except by us.
Ok, sorry, I have to break it down to this...AMERICA SUCKS.
Ahem..(for those all so
... UhOhUhohhh... UhOhUhohhh...
The Damage is Done. - Yo La Tengo
-Original Message-
From: Carissa Tintinalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
313@hyperreal.org
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Beat me to it Atomly
...
The Damage is Done. - Yo La Tengo
-Original Message-
From: Hugh G. Blaze [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
I'm in rather
This makes me so bleepin' mad!!! I say we should e-mail ABC our thoughts. I
just did. You can too at: http://abc.go.com/abc/help/contact.html
techno and house are also faceless.
d
From: darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Hugh G. Blaze [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:24:53 -0800
Techno and House
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, darw_n wrote:
simple, techno is generally wordless and politically positionless, with none
of the gaudy projective layers of pop, rap or whatever, like chorus and
verse...
I don't think I can agree with what you've said here.
Yes, it certainly is true that techno
id rather abc and the mainstream think fatboy slim was an important part of
techno this yr. im happy with it being underground. and yes, it still is
underground. arent lists like this whats its all about? eff abc, eff em all.
Yes, it certainly is true that techno doesn't have verses and choruses but
a lot of techno certainly does follow the four-bar or eight-bar or
sixteen-bar musical form that pop/rock/hip-hop follow. You can even point
out bridges in some techno tracks. But I don't think this is bad per se.
techno and house are also faceless.
d
That can change though, and is changing. It in fact can become vastly
face-full and yet retain its essence...
add definition however, and you have something else, you now have a
message...
notice I am doing my damndest to not boost the toneshift
PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED];
313@hyperreal.org 313@hyperreal.org
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err... (take 2)
I guess I should be a little bit more specific in terms of what other
cultural phenomenon I was trying to reference.
I'm thinking of the U.K. Where Mega
: Carissa Tintinalli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
313@hyperreal.org
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Beat me to it Atomly :)
Is it just me, or is this every shade of wrong?
From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 07:08:59PM -0500, Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
When I say this I mean the fact that the mainstream press, the marketing
and advertising industries and America in general still remains clueless as
to who the artists are that we are interested in, the music that we actually
@hyperreal.org
Date: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its members
on
this issue for a project that I'm working on.
Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
When I say this I mean the fact
And you expected what from Disney?
-Original Message-
From: atomly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 3:31 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [313] err...
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
--
:: atomly
atomly wrote:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
organisation, not the sponsors. The AMA most likely decides the nominees
based on sales
Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote:
As for the music I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
is possible for these artforms to be co-opted.
Don't count on it. For the US, that may be (still) true. In Europe,
The wise, well traveled Dutchman, Otto, speaks...
=)
G l y p h
In a message dated 12/6/00 4:35:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think one big assumption that's being made throughout this discussion
is that Ford decided who to nominate. That decision is made by the AMA
organisation, not the
*BUT*, in the process of the bagging of house, occasionally the real
thing makes it to the frontline. Wamdue Kids, Paul Johnson,
Harry 'Choo
Choo' Romero and several other Subliminal artists, Masters At
Work, St.
Germain, the list goes on. And the good thing about it is, this is
Yep, same here in Belgium. Rolando getting tons of airplay on the national
radio : Studio Brussel. Unfortunately way too late (as always), but still a
kick up the *ss for a lot of people I guess. And guess what: one of the dj's
that plays quite often at Studio Brussel also plays from time to
minimal techno is an
approach/attempt at expression, as is mahler's 5th: clearly mahler's works
are far more dense, but to suggest that they could be 'distilled' into
something more universal seems to miss the point.
and what is the point?
I am not being retaliatory here, but I am curios.
writing them down. but, there aren't a lot
of mozart's around :)
h
-Original Message-
From: darw_n [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 December 2000 16:36
To: Williams, Howard; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err...
minimal techno is an
approach/attempt at expression, as is mahler's 5th
Oh god!!! I think the presenters of this award should be the four
horseman of the apocalypse!
Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its
members on this issue for a project that I'm working on.
Is this good or bad for our music and culture?
When
consider this:
If you take an elaborate Opera, you can theoretically distill
it, all while
keeping its general feel, down to techno. Ambient may or may
not work, it
depends on your approach. But you could distill the Opera down to one
crucial segment (which probably was the musical
And with Ford's current ad campaign theme, it's no surprise
either that
they decide to sponsor such an award, even though they know
it's not the
real techno. In any case, it's the closest thing at the AMA they have
for reaching the intended target audience. Assuming they show the ad
to do with techno as the AMA has to do with music :)
-Original Message-
From: Topping, Micah [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:57 AM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: [313] err...
And with Ford's current ad campaign theme, it's no surprise
Ford is just a multinational with billions dolars of proffits and if anybody
on this list really think Ford is interested in techno at all or want to
lift techno to a higher lever then they are extremly ignorant. Some smart
guy down at Ford just noticed how populair the DEMF was, they not here to
reducing other music to a few notes, and repeating makes
techno...which
makes it a meta-creation from those notes, like distilling down to the
essence(notes)
then building back up from there.
no, you make techno by switching on your drumcomputer and sampler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PROTECTED]
Sent:Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:57 AM
To:313@hyperreal.org
Subject:RE: [313] err...
And with Ford's current ad campaign theme, it's no surprise
either that
they decide to sponsor such an award, even though they know
it's not the
real techno. In any
On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, atomly wrote:
[...]
I'd say the problem with the mainstream media picking up subgenres is
that they burn fast and die quickly... If techno (true, underground,
techno) were to get big tomorrow, a lot of people that we know would
probably become superstars overnight and in
What about letting the four DUTCHMEN of the Apocalypse present it? Now that
would be fun!
Oh god!!! I think the presenters of this award should be the four
horseman of the apocalypse!
Hugh G. Blaze wrote:
I'm in rather dire need of the sage wisdom of this list and its
members on this
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:24:53PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
techno is generally [...] politically positionless
Since when?
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
From: Sam Karmel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Maybe we should let our voices be heard!!!
I agree...
Instead of whining and complaining about what should or shouldn't be
techno and of what this _may_ do to our music, we should respectfully send
a couple thousand e-mails to abc, and let them
Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote:
As for the music I think that darw_n is correct. Techno and House are
very different from hip-hop for example, in that I really don't think it
is possible for these artforms to be co-opted.
Otto said:
Don't count on it. For the US, that may be (still)
techno is generally [...] politically positionless
Since when?
since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
what great movement do we represent?
darw_n
create, demonstrate, toneshift...
http://www.mp3.com/stations/clevelandunderground
http://www.mp3.com/darw_n
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
UR?
--
:: atomly ::
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 03:25:45PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
since I have yet to hear a real stance from techno
UR?
sure, but I can point to many many groups within the techno scene who have
entirely polar opposite views, UR's is simply one position in a near
infinite amount of stances,
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 04:00:13PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
sure, but I can point to many many groups within the techno scene who have
entirely polar opposite views, UR's is simply one position in a near
infinite amount of stances, varying from one extreme to another. Because of
this highly
..Yawn...zzz
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/webmail
Because Communists exist and Fascists exist and are diametrically
opposed, politics don't exist?
no, that's not what I said at all. Those two opposing political forces do
NOT represent a single group.
Let me try to re-explain...
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in
Atomly quipped:
Because Communists exist and Fascists exist and are diametrically
opposed, politics don't exist?
Dawrw_n replied:
no, that's not what I said at all. Those two opposing political forces do
NOT represent a single group.
Let me try to re-explain...
Techno has no single
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all
stand
united, none at all.
What artistic, social or political movement ever has? None.
fine rebuttal, but there *was* a general underlying common drive. Every
youth music movement has had a general drive, be it war or
a picture of a pond with paint. I think that
distilling that to either just paint or just a pond misses what makes that
artwork special.
Just a thought.
From: darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Williams, Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 08:35
- Original Message -
From: darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Hugh G. Blaze [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [313] err...
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all
stand
united, none
Monet painted a picture of a pond with paint. I think that
distilling that to either just paint or just a pond misses what makes
that
artwork special.
Indeed, and I am not suggesting that you can distill something to the point
before it was even created. If you could, than you could distill
i believe the common goal of techno is to create music that hasn't been
heard before.
i've heard plenty of artists say the same thing most notably juan atkins
and
jeff mills.
is this not enough of a unifying definition and a common goal for ya? : )
No, I am not saticfied with that, it
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 04:51:21PM -0800, darw_n wrote:
Techno has no single political, social, economic banner in which all stand
united, none at all. The point I was making specifically was that techno is
a ambiguous movement...
This is very very critical BTW in the realm of social
Beat me to it Atomly :)
Is it just me, or is this every shade of wrong?
From: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [313] err...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:31:00 -0600
http://abc.go.com/primetime/ama/techno_home.html
--
:: atomly
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