Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

a definition of IAccessibleText::copy anywhere, >>> so the original reason that there are offsets for the clipboard methods >>> has been completely lost in the mists of time). >>> >>> Now, since mul

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

> James Teh wrote on 28/06/2011 08:09:16 PM: > > On 29/06/2011 4:54 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: > > AT devs, do you use IAccessibleEditableText? > No. I don't think any screen readers use IAccessibleEditableText. When we were implementing it for Eclipse, the only test tools we had were inspector-type

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

ger, I >> am happy to revert back to our initial impression that >> IAccessibleEditibleText[2] doesn't need clipboard operations at all. :) >> >>

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

perations at all. :) Carolyn From: Peter Korn To: Carolyn MacLeod/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA Cc: Alexander Surkov , accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, IA2 List Date: 27/06/2011 02:22 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 -

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 29/06/2011 4:54 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: > AT devs, do you use IAccessibleEditableText? No. > Is there a kind of AT that can't use the GUI for clipboard operations? Maybe an AT implementing an alternative input method for those that don't have the use of their hands? They might still be able to

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

for clipbo From: Pete Brunet To: Cc: IA2 List Date: 06/28/2011 01:57 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

: Pete Brunet To: Cc: IA2 List Date: 06/28/2011 01:57 PM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org AT devs, do you use IAccessibleEditableText? Is there a kind of AT that can't use the GU

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

> has been completely lost in the mists of time). >> >> Now, since multi-selection makes the strange semantics even stranger, I >> am happy to revert back to our initial impression that >> IAccessibleEditibleText[2]

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Korn > To: Carolyn MacLeod/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA > Cc: Alexander Surkov , > accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, IA2 List > > Date: 27/06/2011 02:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 > > > ---

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

vert back to our initial impression that IAccessibleEditibleText[2] doesn't need clipboard operations at all. :) Carolyn From: Peter Korn To: Carolyn MacLeod/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA Cc: Alexander Surkov , accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, IA2 List Date: 27/06/2011 02:22 PM Subject: Re: [Ac

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

> > Brian > > Brian Cragun > IBM AbilityLab Consultant > Human Ability & Accessibility Center > www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able > W:(720)-663-2801    H:(507)288-2437 &

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

, because startOffset and endOffset are inadequate to define multiple selections). Perhaps pasteText should simply be specified to always operate on the selection, whatever that may be. And if that is the case, then it only makes sense to remove the parameters from copyText and cutT

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2, IAccessibleEditableText2

Hi, I am catching up emails here quite late, but would like to comment on IAccessibleEditableText2: For start/end offsets, I guess behavior should actually be like in my email here: https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2010-October/001227.html I have some questions/sug

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Jamie. I think new method shouldn't replace the existing one, IA2 should keep both. Thank you. Alex. On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:31 AM, James Teh wrote: > On 20/06/2011 10:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: >>> I'm not concerned about the speed of the browser. I'm concerned about >>> the pe

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

chard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > > > > Rich Schwerdtfeger > CTO Accessibility Software Group > * > **accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org*wrote > on 06/22/2011 11:16:41 AM: > > > From: Pete Brunet ** > > To: IA2 List > > ** > >

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

erhaps it's a typo, and it was meant to be "IAccessibleHyperlink2" or maybe "IAccessibleHypertext2" ? Carolyn From: Pete Brunet To: IA2 List Date: 22/06/2011 01:40 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@l

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

gt; Date: 06/22/2011 11:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 > > Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > > > > On 6/22/2011 8:27 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > > Pete, > > > > I am lookin

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote on 06/22/2011 11:16:41 AM: > From: Pete Brunet > To: IA2 List > Date: 06/22/2011 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 > Sent by: ac

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

e: 06/06/2011 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Hi all, Please take a look at this and provide your feedback:

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Hi all, Please take a look at this and provide your feedback: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessi

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

ty From: Pete Brunet To: IA2 List Date: 06/06/2011 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Hi all,

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

List Date: 06/06/2011 11:12 PM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Hi all, Please take a look at this and provide your feedback: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3 Thanks, Pete

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 20/06/2011 10:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: >> I'm not concerned about the speed of the browser. I'm concerned about >> the performance hit of multiple cross-process calls for out-of-process >> clients. > James, most screen readers access these APIs in-process. Consequently, I > am concern

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org On 17/06/2011 10:49 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > Well if you wanted to [have a way to fetch multiple object attributes] the browser should implemen

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 17/06/2011 10:49 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > Well if you wanted to [have a way to fetch multiple object attributes] the > browser should implement a hashing > algorithm for managing attributes. Otherwise, it will still be slow. How > much performance improvement would you expect to get?

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

: IAccessible2 mailing list Date: 06/16/2011 06:56 PM Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2 Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org Regarding "performant way to get object attribute value by name": Do we need a way o

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 8:34 AM, James Teh wrote: > On 9/06/2011 9:50 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: >> However specialized interfaces allows to provide a common >> way to deal with different objects and can be used to fix web page >> accessibility errors. In the case of media interface screen reader

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Regarding "performant way to get object attribute value by name": Do we need a way of fetching multiple (but not all) object attributes? Right now, it's all or one. Jamie On 10/06/2011 2:00 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > Hey, group. > > I run through the proposal and marked items by green color t

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 9/06/2011 9:50 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > However specialized interfaces allows to provide a common > way to deal with different objects and can be used to fix web page > accessibility errors. In the case of media interface screen reader can > provide unified way to play or pause the media fo

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Peter. The proposal lists ideas that were discussed already on IA2 list or mozilla bugzilla. In other words everything you see in proposal was suggested by someone from the IA2 group, has motivation and had discussion. Many API changes are supposed to replace existing IA2 methods, in this sens

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Alex, Green suggests it should be done?  I am concerned about growing an API simply because nobody comments on (e.g. objects to) an API addition idea.  A new API proposal is something that should overcome a natural tendency to NOT grow the API.  Growth almost always

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Alex, Green suggests it should be done?  I am concerned about growing an API simply because nobody comments on (e.g. objects to) an API addition idea.  A new API proposal is something that should overcome a natural tendency to NOT grow the API.  Growth almost always

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hey, group. I run through the proposal and marked items by green color that nobody commented to. Please take a quick look and make sure you don't have any concerns. Other items are marked by yellow color, I pointed the discussion thread for each item. These items need for feedback, please make su

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Oh, I forgot to answer to how it might be possible to deal with when a device doesn't want to make the video wait: if would just tell the browser whether it wants it to wait or not and the browser would only increase the reference counter if AT actually asks it to wait. Cheers, Silvia. On Thu, Ju

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi Jamie, Alex, This is a great discussion to have! I am not sure about the correct answers, but I hope to learn from the experts (you)! :-) One argument that speaks for having a specialized interface for video and audio elements is that you can then provide a means in the screen reader to stop a

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Jamie. I can see your point but I'm not sure I share it entirely. In general I agree that screen reader should expose that what's visible and operable for sighted users. This idea makes all specialized interfaces unneeded. However specialized interfaces allows to provide a common way to deal w

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi. While I recognise the importance of media accessibility, I think special purpose interfaces are generally best avoided and so extreme caution needs to be exercised when considering them. I think we need to clearly determine the use cases for each interface and part thereof. My initial feel

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Silvia, How nice to see you on this list. For those who don't know, Silvia and I both participate in W3C's HTML 5 Media accessibility work where we are surfacing some candidate requirements on accessibility APIs. This conversation thread looks like a good start to me. However, we should regard t

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi Alexander, I've added to it with my non-existant knowledge of IA2 API design. I hope you can make head and tails of it. :-) Cheers, Silvia. On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > Hi. > > Based on my talk with Silvia couple days ago I think I can suggest API for > your co

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi Peer, The way in which I see this working is that the browser communicates with AT both about the state of the video playback and the state of the cue text reading. Let me call the captions "cues", because they could be text descriptions or subtitles or any other piece of text that needs to be

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Cragun > IBM AbilityLab Consultant > Human Ability & Accessibility Center > www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able > W:(720)-663-2801    H:(507)288-2437 > > > > > From:        Pete Brunet > To:        IA2 List > Date:        06/06/2011 11:12 PM > Subject:      

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi. Based on my talk with Silvia couple days ago I think I can suggest API for your consideration - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#IAccessibleMedia_interface. Thank you. Alex. On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:28 AM, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Silvia, > > Do you have any thoughts on how s

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Peter. The registry API isn't part of proposal (sorry if I didn't make it clear). I agree we should continue investigations. Thanks. Alex. On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:46 AM, Peter Korn wrote: > Hey Pete, > > Besides my comment to Silvia, I have a few other quick comments: > >- Regarding

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Sounds like ref-counting is in order here that prevents a feature from being disabled unless its use count drops to zero. The problem is that older ATS will not implement this new registry, so any customers having to purchase paid upgrades for their assistive technologies will eventually lose a

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Jamie and Pete. My suggestion was based on assumption that AT always knows what they need, i.e. if they need explicit name then they get explicit name, if they need computed name then they get computed name. In other words they don't need to know whether this name is explicit or computed. If A

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 8/06/2011 6:53 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > What's the problem of in-process calls? Having calls that only work in-process means that there are entire features of the standard which don't work for out-of-process clients, which smells of ugly design to me. At the very least, this needs to be

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Re registry API: On 8/06/2011 7:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > Right, I think I'd like to whitelist features, this allows to keep > a11y really light. I still think this has the potential to cause major problems for multiple ATs. Using two screen readers is not ideal, but a user might well use

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Arnstein. Right, I think I'd like to whitelist features, this allows to keep a11y really light. Thank you. Alex. 2011/6/7 Arnstein Skåra : > Hi, Pete. > > It looks great, especially "accessibleWithCaret" :) > > About "Registry API": > As it stands now, I assume a feature will be disabled if

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Jamie. If two continue set of children are added and removed then you get an array of two items IA2ChildrenChange. What's the problem of in-process calls? If you think this suggestion doesn't make too much sense then it's fine and let's drop it from proposal. But since this problem is bottle

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Regarding Reorder event details: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#Reorder_event_details One issue is that this introduces more in-process only calls into IA2. That is, you can of course make the call out-of-process, but it isn't useful because win events are async. I don't really h

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

On 8/06/2011 7:46 AM, Peter Korn wrote: > * Regarding the explicit name > > idea, what about a simple property indicating whether the name was > explicitly set vs. derived automatically? In principle, I prefer that

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hey Pete, Besides my comment to Silvia, I have a few other quick comments: Regarding the explicit name idea, what about a simple property indicating whether the name was explicitly set vs. derived automatically?  That's closer to Jamie's

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi Silvia, Do you have any thoughts on how specifically to implement this, and to surface it to assistive technologies?  Based on the IA2/MSAA architecture (or for that matter, the ATK architecture), there would be some specific UI element in the hierarchy that woul

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Brian Cragun IBM AbilityLab Consultant Human Ability & Accessibility Center www.ibm.com/able & w3.ibm.com/able W:(720)-663-2801H:(507)288-2437 From: Pete Brunet To: IA2 List Date: 06/06/2011 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi all, I am new to this list, so a quick intro: I am involved in the W3C HTML5 accessibility task force and work on video specs. I added the need for an API for time-aligned text descriptions of video to the bottom of that wiki page, since there is text there that we need to expose. It's probabl

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Pete. It looks great, especially "accessibleWithCaret" :) About "Registry API": As it stands now, I assume a feature will be disabled if you don't include it in the "features" argument. Am I right? Thanks, Arnstein On 07.06.2011 06:09, Pete Brunet wrote: Hi all, Please take a look at t

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi all, Please take a look at this and provide your feedback: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3 Thanks, Pete -- *Pete Brunet* a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 238-6967 (work), (512) 689-4155

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, Jamie. I missed Mick suggestion on the list. It's sounds reasonable and I agree we should try it before getting new API for this since the issue is mostly about events. Thank you. Alex. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:43 AM, James Teh wrote: > Hi. > > Nice work; good to get the discussion going

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi. Nice work; good to get the discussion going. :) I still don't see a need for this registry API. Why not just use IsWinEventHookInstalled(), as Mick suggested on the IA2 list? Thanks. Jamie On 12/03/2011 3:48 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote: > Hi. > > I gathered ideas into one doc - > https://w

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi, David. Thanks! Concerning to registry API. I've added them just in case, to not loose them from consideration, if someone has ideas. Interfaces: IA2 interfaces or certain methods. The implementation of certain methods or interfaces may be heavy from perf point of view, so the server should do

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Nice. I tweaked it to get edits started. I hope others can join in. I also asked in the wiki what you meant by interfaces and accessible tree, with respect to the registry. Cheers, David On 11/03/11 12:48 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: Hi. I gathered ideas into one doc - https://wiki.mozilla.or

[Accessibility-ia2] next changes to IAccessible2

Hi. I gathered ideas into one doc - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3. Please give feedback here and feel free to edit the wiki. Thank you. Alex. ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.l