Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Rahul, I tend to agree with you. I always have believed that nothing should be hidden from your potential employer. I agree with you that prior disclosure helps the employer to reflect on the disability and have a more meaningful interaction with you during a face to face chat. Disclosure also conveys a sense of integrity and confidence. The disclosure needs to be presented as a positive attribute rather than as just a mere fact or as a defensive statement of fact. We cannot control the way people would respond but we need to move forward with conviction. This is my considered take. Somehow I am not comfortable with the approach of surprising the interview board with my disability. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 10:15 AM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views Hi Kartik and all, Kartik, I think we are in substantial agreement here. Both of us would like to be assessed solely by our qualifications and ability to get the job done and not be given additional brownie points for having a disability, just as we would not like to be discriminated against based on our disability. As one of the lawyers said in the meeting I referenced in the first post, we would like to be assessed solely by the content of our character, as Dr. King said. That is, however, not the case sometimes. This being so, the question then is not if your disability will play a role but what role it will play. I think a better answer to that question is that, by taking control of the situation by making a disclosure upfront, we can make that role positive. Your opinion is that its role can be addressed as and when it naturally comes up in the selection process. Insofar as my assumption that people giving careful thought to this issue is concerned, that is based on my own experience. More specifically, for a couple of internships which I did and even in my job interview, since they knew I was blind beforehand, they were equipped to have a constructive conversation which they would have perhaps not been if they didn't know this beforehand. In my job interview, for example, I was asked how I would feel about being asked to shift to a different vertical in the firm owing to the constraints flowing from my disability. I don't think such a thoughtful question could have been formulated sans prior notice. In the meeting I had, the folks espousing the view that disclosure should not be made were saying that prior disclosure results in : (a) the employer trying to lay traps to not hire you due to objective factors and (b) making a palpable difference in how you are treated in the interview. Now, I personally have never faced such treatment. However, it is certainly conceivable. If a potential employer is biased against you in that way, I think the best approach is to make as strong and emphatic a case about: (a) howyour disability will not come in the way; (b) some of their concerns are unfounded and (c) you can help the workforce become more diverse, bring to the table valuable problem-solving skills and grit which your sighted colleagues do not possess ( here I should mention that I am of the firm view that a blind person does possess these in a more substantial measure than their sighted counterparts because it is not as though they haven't acquired these skills through academic and other pursuits like their sighted colleagues. They have, and on top of that they have acquired the skills flowing from grappling with an objective impairment which their sighted colleagues have not, but perhaps those similarly disadvantaged, like people of colour or LGBT people have). Again, I don't think you would disagree with these 3 points. Indeed, you embody them more fully than most disabled people. I am of the considered view that these 3 points can best be brought home by laying the foundation for them in their application. It appears that you already do this, as you say that you make indirect references to it in your resume. The lawyers in that meeting, however, were saying that such references should also be removed, to avoid the 2 consequences I outlined at para 4 above, which I wholly disagree with. Finally, because you cannot predict which employers will try to be discriminatory and which not, one's best bet would be to make a disclosure, either wholly or in part but in my view wholly, to be able to make these 3 points, in every case. Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Kartik Sawhney wrote: > > Hi Rahul, > > Your points are interesting but I still maintain what I said before. > Let's say I am applying for a software engineering position. do I want > the employer to be impressed by all that I have done despite my > disabilit
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hello Folks, Good discussion! I fully agree with Rahul and Preeti Mam. I did disclose my disability in my resume and in my covering letter I did mention about my achievements. I strongly feel that we must give pointers to the employer to think deep and to come back to us. We bring a different angle to the table. Good managers would like to include our view. We must give that much extra time and space to the employer so that they are ready to provide us with the right ecosystem and to absorb our skills productively. This is possible only when they are aware about our condition. We must always give our best because we get very limited opportunity. The employer must feel that we are an asset to the organization. -- "Good friendship is like the relationship between eye & hand! If the hand is hurt, the eye will cry! & when the eye cries, the hand will wipe the tears" With best regards, Mahesh Narasimhan Mobile: +91-9899353960 E-mail: maheshde...@gmail.com On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Hi All, >>> >>> I hope this message finds you well. >>> >>> I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows from >>> a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a meeting >>> aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities who >>> are finding great difficulty getting employed. >>> >>> One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose their >>> disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an >>> employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to >>> disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it >>> does not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not >>> related to a person's disability for not giving an interview call or the >>> like, when the actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view >>> believe that the interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining >>> whether an applicant is qualified for the job concerned and that a >>> disability has no bearing on that determination. By bringing the >>> disability into the picture, you often end up colouring a potential >>> employer's views about you in a negative way. They argue that the >>> disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has been made, >>> for discussing reasonable accommodations. >>> >>> On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to proceed on >>> the premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to >>> disclose the fact of your disability upfront while also making clear that >>> your disability has not held you back from realizing your full potential, >>> as opposed to brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby >>> squandering the opportunity to disabuse a potential employer of false >>> notions and stereotypes about a disabled person's competence. My view is >>> that concealing the fact of one's disability at the time of applying >>> prevents a potential employer from reflecting on the modus operandi that >>> a disabled employee is likely to adopt to perform their functions and >>> consequently from asking questions about the disability in the interview >>> which can enable them to form a more informed view about the applicant's >>> suitability. >>> >>> I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, >>> whenever convenient, based on your own experience and conversations you >>> may have had with folks with disabilities. Some of them were suggesting >>> that my views may be based on some unique features of Indian society >>> which merit closer scrutiny. Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> Sent from my iPhone > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please > visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
it is better to give clarity to the employer On 9/15/18, sadaf khan wrote: > Hi, > > I Second Kartik's opinion. > > While I have mentioned indirectly about my disability in my resume, at > the start of my career I mentioned that I am a 100% blind individual > in the telephonic round. What I observed then was that with the > mention of my disability an attitude was already formed which largely > conveyed to me that most of the firms are sadly not yet aware how > people with visual impairment function with assistive technology. > Considering the current sinario of the Indian society I was jobless > for a long time. while there are acceptions who when it comes to > awareness, most of them are the large corporate firms who for their > own CSR reasons higher people with disability. > > the technique that works very well with me is not mentioning anything > about the disability until the face to face round of interview. doing > this gives you an opportunity to demonstrate to the interviewer how > your disability doesn't come in your way of your capabilities. he/she > then has a outlook towards you which is free of attitudinal bariers. > > I also agree that the interviewer may not be able to ask questions > related to your disability since he doesn't know anything about it, to > resolve this I have a document made for myself which talks about the > major challenges faced by people with visual impairment and how we > overcome the same. to name a few, mobility, using computers/ mobiles > ETC. it has a brief description of all the assistive aids that I use > as well. the document helps answer most of the questions any > interviewer may have for us. > > > > On 9/14/18, Kartik Sawhney wrote: >> Hi Rahul, >> >> All of these points make complete sense. As I said before, there is no >> absolute correct answer here, and it'll be unfair to generalize. One >> needs to evaluate the pros and cons given a particular industry, >> company or opportunity. Just as how your experiences are completely >> different from Mine or Pranav's, there could be other factors that are >> not relevant to you or me, but might play an important role in this >> decision for someone else. I have been at a bunch of disclosure talks >> and webinars during university, and I like the way many organizations >> approach this discussion in the US. They break this down into "what", >> "when", "how" and "why" of disability disclosure (I probably messed up >> the order), and provide guidance on each of them. It is then up to the >> person to evaluate this given their unique circumstances. >> >> Best, >> >> On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >>> Hi Kartik and all, >>> >>> Kartik, I think we are in substantial agreement here. Both of us would >>> like >>> to be assessed solely by our qualifications and ability to get the job >>> done >>> and not be given additional brownie points for having a disability, just >>> as >>> we would not like to be discriminated against based on our disability. >>> >>> As one of the lawyers said in the meeting I referenced in the first >>> post, >>> we >>> would like to be assessed solely by the content of our character, as Dr. >>> King said. That is, however, not the case sometimes. This being so, the >>> question then is not if your disability will play a role but what role >>> it >>> will play. I think a better answer to that question is that, by taking >>> control of the situation by making a disclosure upfront, we can make >>> that >>> role positive. Your opinion is that its role can be addressed as and >>> when >>> it >>> naturally comes up in the selection process. >>> >>> Insofar as my assumption that people giving careful thought to this >>> issue >>> is >>> concerned, that is based on my own experience. More specifically, for a >>> couple of internships which I did and even in my job interview, since >>> they >>> knew I was blind beforehand, they were equipped to have a constructive >>> conversation which they would have perhaps not been if they didn't know >>> this >>> beforehand. In my job interview, for example, I was asked how I would >>> feel >>> about being asked to shift to a different vertical in the firm owing to >>> the >>> constraints flowing from my disability. I don't think such a thoughtful >>> question could have been formulated sans prior notice. >>> >>> In the meeting I had, the folks espousing the view that disclosure >>> should >>> not be made were saying that prior disclosure results in : (a) the >>> employer >>> trying to lay traps to not hire you due to objective factors and (b) >>> making >>> a palpable difference in how you are treated in the interview. Now, I >>> personally have never faced such treatment. However, it is certainly >>> conceivable. If a potential employer is biased against you in that way, >>> I >>> think the best approach is to make as strong and emphatic a case about: >>> (a) >>> howyour disability will not come in the way; (b) some of their concerns >>> are >>> unfounded and
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi, I Second Kartik's opinion. While I have mentioned indirectly about my disability in my resume, at the start of my career I mentioned that I am a 100% blind individual in the telephonic round. What I observed then was that with the mention of my disability an attitude was already formed which largely conveyed to me that most of the firms are sadly not yet aware how people with visual impairment function with assistive technology. Considering the current sinario of the Indian society I was jobless for a long time. while there are acceptions who when it comes to awareness, most of them are the large corporate firms who for their own CSR reasons higher people with disability. the technique that works very well with me is not mentioning anything about the disability until the face to face round of interview. doing this gives you an opportunity to demonstrate to the interviewer how your disability doesn't come in your way of your capabilities. he/she then has a outlook towards you which is free of attitudinal bariers. I also agree that the interviewer may not be able to ask questions related to your disability since he doesn't know anything about it, to resolve this I have a document made for myself which talks about the major challenges faced by people with visual impairment and how we overcome the same. to name a few, mobility, using computers/ mobiles ETC. it has a brief description of all the assistive aids that I use as well. the document helps answer most of the questions any interviewer may have for us. On 9/14/18, Kartik Sawhney wrote: > Hi Rahul, > > All of these points make complete sense. As I said before, there is no > absolute correct answer here, and it'll be unfair to generalize. One > needs to evaluate the pros and cons given a particular industry, > company or opportunity. Just as how your experiences are completely > different from Mine or Pranav's, there could be other factors that are > not relevant to you or me, but might play an important role in this > decision for someone else. I have been at a bunch of disclosure talks > and webinars during university, and I like the way many organizations > approach this discussion in the US. They break this down into "what", > "when", "how" and "why" of disability disclosure (I probably messed up > the order), and provide guidance on each of them. It is then up to the > person to evaluate this given their unique circumstances. > > Best, > > On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> Hi Kartik and all, >> >> Kartik, I think we are in substantial agreement here. Both of us would >> like >> to be assessed solely by our qualifications and ability to get the job >> done >> and not be given additional brownie points for having a disability, just >> as >> we would not like to be discriminated against based on our disability. >> >> As one of the lawyers said in the meeting I referenced in the first post, >> we >> would like to be assessed solely by the content of our character, as Dr. >> King said. That is, however, not the case sometimes. This being so, the >> question then is not if your disability will play a role but what role it >> will play. I think a better answer to that question is that, by taking >> control of the situation by making a disclosure upfront, we can make that >> role positive. Your opinion is that its role can be addressed as and when >> it >> naturally comes up in the selection process. >> >> Insofar as my assumption that people giving careful thought to this issue >> is >> concerned, that is based on my own experience. More specifically, for a >> couple of internships which I did and even in my job interview, since >> they >> knew I was blind beforehand, they were equipped to have a constructive >> conversation which they would have perhaps not been if they didn't know >> this >> beforehand. In my job interview, for example, I was asked how I would >> feel >> about being asked to shift to a different vertical in the firm owing to >> the >> constraints flowing from my disability. I don't think such a thoughtful >> question could have been formulated sans prior notice. >> >> In the meeting I had, the folks espousing the view that disclosure >> should >> not be made were saying that prior disclosure results in : (a) the >> employer >> trying to lay traps to not hire you due to objective factors and (b) >> making >> a palpable difference in how you are treated in the interview. Now, I >> personally have never faced such treatment. However, it is certainly >> conceivable. If a potential employer is biased against you in that way, I >> think the best approach is to make as strong and emphatic a case about: >> (a) >> howyour disability will not come in the way; (b) some of their concerns >> are >> unfounded and (c) you can help the workforce become more diverse, bring >> to >> the table valuable problem-solving skills and grit which your sighted >> colleagues do not possess ( here I should mention that I am of the firm >> view >> that
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi Rahul, All of these points make complete sense. As I said before, there is no absolute correct answer here, and it'll be unfair to generalize. One needs to evaluate the pros and cons given a particular industry, company or opportunity. Just as how your experiences are completely different from Mine or Pranav's, there could be other factors that are not relevant to you or me, but might play an important role in this decision for someone else. I have been at a bunch of disclosure talks and webinars during university, and I like the way many organizations approach this discussion in the US. They break this down into "what", "when", "how" and "why" of disability disclosure (I probably messed up the order), and provide guidance on each of them. It is then up to the person to evaluate this given their unique circumstances. Best, On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Hi Kartik and all, > > Kartik, I think we are in substantial agreement here. Both of us would like > to be assessed solely by our qualifications and ability to get the job done > and not be given additional brownie points for having a disability, just as > we would not like to be discriminated against based on our disability. > > As one of the lawyers said in the meeting I referenced in the first post, we > would like to be assessed solely by the content of our character, as Dr. > King said. That is, however, not the case sometimes. This being so, the > question then is not if your disability will play a role but what role it > will play. I think a better answer to that question is that, by taking > control of the situation by making a disclosure upfront, we can make that > role positive. Your opinion is that its role can be addressed as and when it > naturally comes up in the selection process. > > Insofar as my assumption that people giving careful thought to this issue is > concerned, that is based on my own experience. More specifically, for a > couple of internships which I did and even in my job interview, since they > knew I was blind beforehand, they were equipped to have a constructive > conversation which they would have perhaps not been if they didn't know this > beforehand. In my job interview, for example, I was asked how I would feel > about being asked to shift to a different vertical in the firm owing to the > constraints flowing from my disability. I don't think such a thoughtful > question could have been formulated sans prior notice. > > In the meeting I had, the folks espousing the view that disclosure should > not be made were saying that prior disclosure results in : (a) the employer > trying to lay traps to not hire you due to objective factors and (b) making > a palpable difference in how you are treated in the interview. Now, I > personally have never faced such treatment. However, it is certainly > conceivable. If a potential employer is biased against you in that way, I > think the best approach is to make as strong and emphatic a case about: (a) > howyour disability will not come in the way; (b) some of their concerns are > unfounded and (c) you can help the workforce become more diverse, bring to > the table valuable problem-solving skills and grit which your sighted > colleagues do not possess ( here I should mention that I am of the firm view > that a blind person does possess these in a more substantial measure than > their sighted counterparts because it is not as though they haven't acquired > these skills through academic and other pursuits like their sighted > colleagues. They have, and on top of that they have acquired the skills > flowing from grappling with an objective impairment which their sighted > colleagues have not, but perhaps those similarly disadvantaged, like people > of colour or LGBT people have). > > Again, I don't think you would disagree with these 3 points. Indeed, you > embody them more fully than most disabled people. I am of the considered > view that these 3 points can best be brought home by laying the foundation > for them in their application. It appears that you already do this, as you > say that you make indirect references to it in your resume. The lawyers in > that meeting, however, were saying that such references should also be > removed, to avoid the 2 consequences I outlined at para 4 above, which I > wholly disagree with. > > Finally, because you cannot predict which employers will try to be > discriminatory and which not, one's best bet would be to make a disclosure, > either wholly or in part but in my view wholly, to be able to make these 3 > points, in every case. > > Best, > Rahul > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 14, 2018, at 10:15 PM, Kartik Sawhney >> wrote: >> >> Hi Rahul, >> >> Your points are interesting but I still maintain what I said before. >> Let's say I am applying for a software engineering position. do I want >> the employer to be impressed by all that I have done despite my >> disability, or be impressed by my academic or professional >>
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
I strongly concur with Kartik. I am here in U.S. since 2005. After completing my Ph.D., in Special Education from a tier 1 research institution, I secured a tenure-track faculty position in a public research-intensive university. I would prefer to go to the job market with my skills and credentials. We teach inclusion, ADA, IDEA, neuro diversity, etc., but here in this pragmatic world, product that you could deliver is more important than the process that you've gone through to get the same. we could realize, some of our challenges (i.e., physical) are really conspicuous and some of them (e.g., cognitive, sensory) are not, right? Sathiya -- "What we achieve inwardly will change outer reality" Plutarch Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi Rahul, Your points are interesting but I still maintain what I said before. Let's say I am applying for a software engineering position. do I want the employer to be impressed by all that I have done despite my disability, or be impressed by my academic or professional accomplishments alone? Now, again, this is very personal, but I prefer the latter. I don't think that my disability should play any role in they selecting me as an engineer because that is not going to play any role when at job either. it might have helped me develop problem solving skills, but so have other academic and professional opportunities like anyone else, and I'd rather highlight them, not because I have any fear of they descriminating against me, but just because that is what I prefer. Indirect references to disability through leadership opportunities also highlight this, so I don't feel the need to explicitly highlight my disability. I might have done some crazy stuff despite my disability, but if I don't have the qualifications or experience they are looking for, then I shouldn't get that job just like anyone else. To your point about disclosing giving them enough time to think about constructive questions for the interview, I think you're making a big assumption there that the HR and your interviewers have all the time to research about your disability and carefully think about it. In most cases, this will not be true. A resume, on an average, receives no more than 30 s, and during that time, it is primarily going to be past knowledge and biases that will determine the outcome. I have disclosed on numerous occasions but most of the times, this was not even communicated to the interviewers. But, was the interview bad just because they did not know about my disability? No. I think it's up to you to make them comfortable and demonstrate during that process how you will be successful. Also, remember that in most of the cases, your resume is not even reviewed by the hiring manager before the interview, so by disclosing, you're only telling the HR who is not going to be involved in the interview. I'll admit all of this is true for tech, but I'm not sure how other industries work. I agree with your third point. The point is not about whether you should disclose, but it's more about when, to whom and how. We need to understand that just as how we might not understand other disabilities, the world does not understand us as well and that's fine. to expect them to do their research and somehow overcome their biases isn't fair either. It's really on us to help them understand us and our disabilities, which is exactly why I prefer disclosing at interviews or having conversations after one is shortlisted. There is no right or wrong answer here. It's a function of various things, including how you'd like the world to know you, whether there will be significant changes in how you do your work because of your disability and so on. Best, -Kartik On 9/14/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Kartik, it is certainly a personal decision, but I definitely believe that > there is great value to be gained by making a case, in your job application, > for the proposition that you have achieved a significant amount of success, > assuming you have, despite your disability. In this way, you are able to > arrogate to yourself the power to shape your narrative, insofar as it > concerns your disability. To illustrate, I used to mention in my cover > letter that the battle to thrive in a world designed essentially for the > sighted has endowed me with a unique set of problem-solving skills which > sets me apart. I think that you can present your disability as an asset if > you do this. > > Second, to your point about potential employers discerning the fact that you > are disabled when they see you for the interview, I think that approach > deprives them of the opportunity to give careful thought to how your > disability might impact your work and to frame constructive questions on > that basis. Whatever questions they ask you in such a scenario would be off > the cuff and so you may not be able to get a chance to address all their > inhibitions. > > Third, I think it may not be a good idea to operate on the premise that, for > a person with a disability, the employment decision will wholly be based on > your qualifications and your disability will play no part in the process. I > think it certainly plays a part, even though it is true that you can later, > by dint of your talents and abilities neutralize its role completely. This > being so, it's best, in my view, to exhibit the willingness to discuss it > upfront, as opposed to letting things unfold in their own way. > > Finally, I think it is also true that there are disabled people and then > there are disabled people. Not everyone may have an academic record or work > experience that can make you so much better qualified than others that you > clearly have an upper hand, if the disability is taken out of the
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Rahul, I second Kartik's approach. As for careful consideration, sorry, that does not happen in my experience. The reality is that your CV will be first considered by human resources who usually do not have a clue about how you will fit into the workplace. It then goes to your potential manager who looks at it quickly and then takes a decision if you are to be called. If you have not done work in the disability field, that is fine. Go for the interview and see how things work. Pranav Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Interesting! I completely agree with Rahul! I have a disability, so what? The world must know about it up front! As far as I am concerned, I am only class 10 pass, and have not done badly professionally at all! I still get job offers even at my age, and I am past retirement age long back! So there is something to think about there? If you are capable and a good and willing learner, and do not have the intention of just getting by, I think this world is more than willing to hire us! They need productive people, and they are smart enough to recognize one when they see one, or see a CV! The only thing is that we must continue to display our abilities all the time where ever we are! Always make it a habit to do a great job! Hope that helps? Warmly Preeti Preeti Monga - Chief Executive Officer Inspiring INCLUSION! Fostering DIGNITY! Mobile : 91 9871701646 Landline : 011 22781446 E-mail : preeti.mo...@silver-linings.org Website : www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Recruitment, Trainings- Unique Motivation Programmes, Diversity & Inclusion, POSH. Your Choice to partner with us contributes towards quality Education & Empowerment of Visually Impaired Girls, and providing them with secure Hostel facility at SHIKSHA (A CSR Initiative of Silver Linings) -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj Sent: 14 September 2018 17:18 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views Kartik, it is certainly a personal decision, but I definitely believe that there is great value to be gained by making a case, in your job application, for the proposition that you have achieved a significant amount of success, assuming you have, despite your disability. In this way, you are able to arrogate to yourself the power to shape your narrative, insofar as it concerns your disability. To illustrate, I used to mention in my cover letter that the battle to thrive in a world designed essentially for the sighted has endowed me with a unique set of problem-solving skills which sets me apart. I think that you can present your disability as an asset if you do this. Second, to your point about potential employers discerning the fact that you are disabled when they see you for the interview, I think that approach deprives them of the opportunity to give careful thought to how your disability might impact your work and to frame constructive questions on that basis. Whatever questions they ask you in such a scenario would be off the cuff and so you may not be able to get a chance to address all their inhibitions. Third, I think it may not be a good idea to operate on the premise that, for a person with a disability, the employment decision will wholly be based on your qualifications and your disability will play no part in the process. I think it certainly plays a part, even though it is true that you can later, by dint of your talents and abilities neutralize its role completely. This being so, it's best, in my view, to exhibit the willingness to discuss it upfront, as opposed to letting things unfold in their own way. Finally, I think it is also true that there are disabled people and then there are disabled people. Not everyone may have an academic record or work experience that can make you so much better qualified than others that you clearly have an upper hand, if the disability is taken out of the calculus. In that event, trying to downplay its impact may be the best idea. Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 14, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Kartik Sawhney wrote: > > Hi, > > This is a very personal decision in my opinion. A resume is meant to > highlight some of the most important things you'd like to tell about > yourself to a potential employer. If you decide that disability is one > of those things, then sure, it should be included. However, if you > think that disability is not as key from a resume perspective, and > you'd only like to include it to give a heads-up to the employer, then > I don't think that's necessary, especially for a visible disability. > In any case, during the interview, the interviewers would know that > you are a person with a disability. But at that time, you will have an > opportunity to explain how you can accomplish your job well using > assistive technology and how you have not let your disability be an > impediment in the past. In India and the US both, there continues to > be a lack of awareness, but it is not always the case that people > don't want to understand. Your resume may be reviewed by people who > genuinely don't think you can do the task because they really don't > know anything about disability, but the same people might be the most > supportive once you demonstrate how you do yo
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Kartik, it is certainly a personal decision, but I definitely believe that there is great value to be gained by making a case, in your job application, for the proposition that you have achieved a significant amount of success, assuming you have, despite your disability. In this way, you are able to arrogate to yourself the power to shape your narrative, insofar as it concerns your disability. To illustrate, I used to mention in my cover letter that the battle to thrive in a world designed essentially for the sighted has endowed me with a unique set of problem-solving skills which sets me apart. I think that you can present your disability as an asset if you do this. Second, to your point about potential employers discerning the fact that you are disabled when they see you for the interview, I think that approach deprives them of the opportunity to give careful thought to how your disability might impact your work and to frame constructive questions on that basis. Whatever questions they ask you in such a scenario would be off the cuff and so you may not be able to get a chance to address all their inhibitions. Third, I think it may not be a good idea to operate on the premise that, for a person with a disability, the employment decision will wholly be based on your qualifications and your disability will play no part in the process. I think it certainly plays a part, even though it is true that you can later, by dint of your talents and abilities neutralize its role completely. This being so, it's best, in my view, to exhibit the willingness to discuss it upfront, as opposed to letting things unfold in their own way. Finally, I think it is also true that there are disabled people and then there are disabled people. Not everyone may have an academic record or work experience that can make you so much better qualified than others that you clearly have an upper hand, if the disability is taken out of the calculus. In that event, trying to downplay its impact may be the best idea. Best, Rahul Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 14, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Kartik Sawhney wrote: > > Hi, > > This is a very personal decision in my opinion. A resume is meant to > highlight some of the most important things you'd like to tell about > yourself to a potential employer. If you decide that disability is one > of those things, then sure, it should be included. However, if you > think that disability is not as key from a resume perspective, and > you'd only like to include it to give a heads-up to the employer, then > I don't think that's necessary, especially for a visible disability. > In any case, during the interview, the interviewers would know that > you are a person with a disability. But at that time, you will have an > opportunity to explain how you can accomplish your job well using > assistive technology and how you have not let your disability be an > impediment in the past. In India and the US both, there continues to > be a lack of awareness, but it is not always the case that people > don't want to understand. Your resume may be reviewed by people who > genuinely don't think you can do the task because they really don't > know anything about disability, but the same people might be the most > supportive once you demonstrate how you do your work. Of course, you > might need to disclose even before interview but after you have been > shortlisted for one to get reasonable accommodations. Personally, I > disclose disability indirectly on my resume through my work in the > field and awards etc. > > Best, > -Kartik > >> On 9/13/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> Hi All, I hope this message finds you well. I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows from a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a meeting aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities who are finding great difficulty getting employed. One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose their disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it does not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not related to a person's disability for not giving an interview call or the like, when the actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view believe that the interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining whether an applicant is qualified for the job concerned and that a disability has no bearing on that determination. By bringing the disability into the picture, you often end up colouring a potential employer's views about you in a negative way. They argue that the disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has been made, for discussing reasonable
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi, I too follow the practice of indirectly disclosing my disability through my Resume. Per my experience most people are unexposed to what persons with disability can accomplish with assistive technology. Hence, disclosing the same in a telecon or email may lead to unnecessary apprehensions and confusions. At the personal interview stage one does have a sufficient opportunity to prove and demonstrate the work arounds he adopts to accomplish the desired objective. As regards the argument that specific non disclosure may be considered as unfair means, my point is that if we can ultimately achieve the desired task, the means should not carry much weight. Moreover, if we have disclosed our disability indirectly in our resume, a thorough scrutiny of the resume would make it very clear that we are disabled. Best Turab On 9/14/18, Kartik Sawhney wrote: > Hi, > > This is a very personal decision in my opinion. A resume is meant to > highlight some of the most important things you'd like to tell about > yourself to a potential employer. If you decide that disability is one > of those things, then sure, it should be included. However, if you > think that disability is not as key from a resume perspective, and > you'd only like to include it to give a heads-up to the employer, then > I don't think that's necessary, especially for a visible disability. > In any case, during the interview, the interviewers would know that > you are a person with a disability. But at that time, you will have an > opportunity to explain how you can accomplish your job well using > assistive technology and how you have not let your disability be an > impediment in the past. In India and the US both, there continues to > be a lack of awareness, but it is not always the case that people > don't want to understand. Your resume may be reviewed by people who > genuinely don't think you can do the task because they really don't > know anything about disability, but the same people might be the most > supportive once you demonstrate how you do your work. Of course, you > might need to disclose even before interview but after you have been > shortlisted for one to get reasonable accommodations. Personally, I > disclose disability indirectly on my resume through my work in the > field and awards etc. > > Best, > -Kartik > > On 9/13/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: >> Hi All, I hope this message finds you well. I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows from a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a meeting aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities who are finding great difficulty getting employed. One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose their disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it does not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not related to a person's disability for not giving an interview call or the like, when the actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view believe that the interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining whether an applicant is qualified for the job concerned and that a disability has no bearing on that determination. By bringing the disability into the picture, you often end up colouring a potential employer's views about you in a negative way. They argue that the disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has been made, for discussing reasonable accommodations. On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to proceed on the premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to disclose the fact of your disability upfront while also making clear that your disability has not held you back from realizing your full potential, as opposed to brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby squandering the opportunity to disabuse a potential employer of false notions and stereotypes about a disabled person's competence. My view is that concealing the fact of one's disability at the time of applying prevents a potential employer from reflecting on the modus operandi that a disabled employee is likely to adopt to perform their functions and consequently from asking questions about the disability in the interview which can enable them to form a more informed view about the applicant's suitability. I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, whenever convenient, based on your own experience and conversations you may have had with folks with disabilities. Some of them were suggesting that my views may be based on some unique
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi, This is a very personal decision in my opinion. A resume is meant to highlight some of the most important things you'd like to tell about yourself to a potential employer. If you decide that disability is one of those things, then sure, it should be included. However, if you think that disability is not as key from a resume perspective, and you'd only like to include it to give a heads-up to the employer, then I don't think that's necessary, especially for a visible disability. In any case, during the interview, the interviewers would know that you are a person with a disability. But at that time, you will have an opportunity to explain how you can accomplish your job well using assistive technology and how you have not let your disability be an impediment in the past. In India and the US both, there continues to be a lack of awareness, but it is not always the case that people don't want to understand. Your resume may be reviewed by people who genuinely don't think you can do the task because they really don't know anything about disability, but the same people might be the most supportive once you demonstrate how you do your work. Of course, you might need to disclose even before interview but after you have been shortlisted for one to get reasonable accommodations. Personally, I disclose disability indirectly on my resume through my work in the field and awards etc. Best, -Kartik On 9/13/18, Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Hi All, >>> >>> I hope this message finds you well. >>> >>> I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows from >>> a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a meeting >>> aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities who >>> are finding great difficulty getting employed. >>> >>> One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose their >>> disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an >>> employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to >>> disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it >>> does not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not >>> related to a person's disability for not giving an interview call or the >>> like, when the actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view >>> believe that the interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining >>> whether an applicant is qualified for the job concerned and that a >>> disability has no bearing on that determination. By bringing the >>> disability into the picture, you often end up colouring a potential >>> employer's views about you in a negative way. They argue that the >>> disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has been made, >>> for discussing reasonable accommodations. >>> >>> On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to proceed on >>> the premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to >>> disclose the fact of your disability upfront while also making clear that >>> your disability has not held you back from realizing your full potential, >>> as opposed to brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby >>> squandering the opportunity to disabuse a potential employer of false >>> notions and stereotypes about a disabled person's competence. My view is >>> that concealing the fact of one's disability at the time of applying >>> prevents a potential employer from reflecting on the modus operandi that >>> a disabled employee is likely to adopt to perform their functions and >>> consequently from asking questions about the disability in the interview >>> which can enable them to form a more informed view about the applicant's >>> suitability. >>> >>> I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, >>> whenever convenient, based on your own experience and conversations you >>> may have had with folks with disabilities. Some of them were suggesting >>> that my views may be based on some unique features of Indian society >>> which merit closer scrutiny. Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> Rahul >>> Sent from my iPhone > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please > visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the > person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change
Re: [AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hey Rahul, Sometime back, I wrote a post on this topic. Please read on at: https://srinivasu.org/2016/03/should-i-disclose-my-disability-in-resume-my-prospective/ Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/ Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com Let's create an inclusive web! Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:13 AM Rahul Bajaj wrote: > Hi All, > >> > >> I hope this message finds you well. > >> > >> I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows > from a conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a > meeting aimed at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities > who are finding great difficulty getting employed. > >> > >> One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose > their disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an > employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to > disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it does > not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not related to a > person's disability for not giving an interview call or the like, when the > actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view believe that the > interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining whether an applicant is > qualified for the job concerned and that a disability has no bearing on > that determination. By bringing the disability into the picture, you often > end up colouring a potential employer's views about you in a negative way. > They argue that the disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you > has been made, for discussing reasonable accommodations. > >> > >> On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to proceed on > the premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to disclose > the fact of your disability upfront while also making clear that your > disability has not held you back from realizing your full potential, as > opposed to brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby squandering the > opportunity to disabuse a potential employer of false notions and > stereotypes about a disabled person's competence. My view is that > concealing the fact of one's disability at the time of applying prevents a > potential employer from reflecting on the modus operandi that a disabled > employee is likely to adopt to perform their functions and consequently > from asking questions about the disability in the interview which can > enable them to form a more informed view about the applicant's suitability. > >> > >> I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, > whenever convenient, based on your own experience and conversations you may > have had with folks with disabilities. Some of them were suggesting that my > views may be based on some unique features of Indian society which merit > closer scrutiny. Thank you. > >> > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> Rahul > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of > the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails > sent through this mailing list.. > Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
[AI] Disclosure of disability in a job application: your personal views
Hi All, >> >> I hope this message finds you well. >> >> I was actually wondering what you thought about something that flows from a >> conversation that I had with some blind lawyers in the US in a meeting aimed >> at guiding some fresh law school graduates with disabilities who are finding >> great difficulty getting employed. >> >> One line of argument was that a disabled lawyer should not disclose their >> disability in their job application/cv, given that this wouldgive an >> employer a potential reason to discriminate and to find strategic ways to >> disguise that discrimination in such a subtle way as to ensure that it does >> not appear legally suspect (principally by citing reasons not related to a >> person's disability for not giving an interview call or the like, when the >> actual reason is disability). Proponents of this view believe that the >> interview process is solely aimed at ascertaining whether an applicant is >> qualified for the job concerned and that a disability has no bearing on that >> determination. By bringing the disability into the picture, you often end up >> colouring a potential employer's views about you in a negative way. They >> argue that the disability can be discussed once a decision to hire you has >> been made, for discussing reasonable accommodations. >> >> On the other hand, I am of the view that it is important to proceed on the >> premise that people do not have a discriminatory intent and to disclose the >> fact of your disability upfront while also making clear that your disability >> has not held you back from realizing your full potential, as opposed to >> brushing this issue under the carpet and thereby squandering the opportunity >> to disabuse a potential employer of false notions and stereotypes about a >> disabled person's competence. My view is that concealing the fact of one's >> disability at the time of applying prevents a potential employer from >> reflecting on the modus operandi that a disabled employee is likely to adopt >> to perform their functions and consequently from asking questions about the >> disability in the interview which can enable them to form a more informed >> view about the applicant's suitability. >> >> I'd be grateful if you could share your personal view about this, whenever >> convenient, based on your own experience and conversations you may have had >> with folks with disabilities. Some of them were suggesting that my views may >> be based on some unique features of Indian society which merit closer >> scrutiny. Thank you. >> >> >> >> Best, >> Rahul >> Sent from my iPhone Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
